# Recommendations for 2nd Ski (Start of a quiver)



## MarcP

Hi all,
Long time lurker looking for advise.

Me: 45yo, 6'-3", 230 lbs, advanced skier (not expert)
Where: CNY and ADKs
What: Pretty much everything; groomers, bumps, trees, etc. No park.
Current Ski: Fischer Progressor 9+, 180cm, 70mm waist, 14m/19m dual radius sidecut. Bought brand new in 2008!

The Progressors are great for early season, afternoon scrapped off machine groomed hardpack, and the typical warm/wet-cold/dry cycle we have in CNY. When I bought them I knew I wanted something that wouldn't fold up under me on the hard snow. They are absolutely perfect for that and I'll never give them up.

However, carving railroad tracks is fine but at my usual 700 vert hill it gets boring. I find myself being drawn the ungroomed stuff when at all possible, and as you all know we do get dumped on here in CNY from time to time. So there's the issue. I've been skiing whatever powder we have, trees, the resulting cut-up chowder, and the eventual moguls on one of the better cheater GS skis from the past decade. It's forced me to be a better skier but I'm finally at a point that I can afford to get a second ski more suited for that stuff.

I think I want a lighter, more soft snow oriented ski that I can use for mid/late season or when we get dumped on. I want it to be decent in bumps, better in ungroomed powder/chowder, able to stand up to my weight and height without being floppy or noodlely, but don't want a 100MM+ powder board. Basically a low-mid 90's all mountain ski with some tip and tail rocker.

Options so far:
Stormrider 95 193cm (I would just buy this one if money was no object)
Enforcer 94 191cm
Ranger 92TI 185cm
Rustler 9 188cm

Anybody currently ride these? Any advise from the group on others I should consider?

Thanks!
Marc


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## Face4Me

I've been on the Enforcer (93) for about 4 or 5 seasons now ... I absolutely love them ... I'm primarily a Whiteface skier, and these are my "everyday" skis ... I find that they can stand up to the sometimes brutal conditions we get while at the same time, over the past couple of weeks, they've been great in the soft, deep snow too. I've also got the Nordica NRGY 100, which I use on true powder days, and the Nordica Spitfire Pro for when I just want to carve turns and go fast.

If you're looking for an all-mountain, every day ski, I don't think you can go wrong with the Enforcers.


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## Harvey

I don't know skis or brands, but I'd say if you are looking for a fatter ski for NEW YORK, I'd go 96 at the waist with some rocker.


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## gorgonzola

My list was very similar, another one to consider is the salomon qst and maybe the atomic vantage ti
oh and alot of folks rave abut the head kore 93

I would think with your size and background your going to want some metal

I tend to prefer a little narrower ski and ended up with the black crows orbs and love 'em


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## gefiltephish

I like your list, those skis are the type I was gonna recommend! I demoed these 17-18 models, currently ski on '20/21 Head Kore 99s. To me, Ranger feels the most 'powerful' but still responsive. Rustler slightly more 'stable' feeling vs. poppy, The Nordica even more so- slightly damper, and heavier. Chatter vs pop... I prefer fun vs. stability, ymmv. On the lighter/poppier side of these kind of skis, I'd recommend the Head Kore 93. Softer flex for the Head Kore 93 vs the Kore 99, which has the best stiffness/weight mix I feel.

I could go into a subjective quiver babble, esp. given your current skis are 70mm waist. I agree w Harv that the wider versions of these skis (ie 99 vs. 93 mm waist) will do better in deeper/untrack snow... But think that the narrower versions of these skis are good everyday East ski.


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## BRLKED

Yes Kore 93! does everything


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## gorgonzola

BRLKED said:


> Yes Kore 93! does everything


@BRLKED I just thought of something - do you know Jay DeJesus? He might of texted you a pic over the summer, I shuttled Raymond Brook with you a few years back...

Sorry, carry on!


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## G.ski

Kore 93 my everyday driver, Kore 105 for deep days.


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## Ripitz

once you ski Stocklis you won’t want anything else


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## Tjf1967

Ripitz said:


> once you ski Stocklis you won’t want anything else


Oh stop. Stokli jumped the shark 7 years ago.
I would suggest figuring out what brand you favor. Get 85 under foot trucker ski for firm conditions. 90-95 softer ski for most conditions. 110-120 under foot for powder. 
Using the same brand will get you skis with similar characteristics. They will compliment each other with less overlap.
This coming from a skier who has not down hilled this year.


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## BRLKED

Yes met Jay back in the mid 80's , he was a young trials rider doing some races I was involved with in NJ. Met again early around 2012 when he was running Garnet Hill Ski Center where I was a former now present groomer. Still see him a couple times a year as his / my friend Bob Ingram has a house at Garnet Hill. Fun to ski and bike with!
[/QUOTE]


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## Ripitz

Jump the shark and everything else


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## DomB

Harvey said:


> I don't know skis or brands, but I'd say if you are looking for a fatter ski for NEW YORK, I'd go 96 at the waist with some rocker.


I use the Jski Masterblaster as my quiver of one. It is not super fat but may fit OP request for the next width with different function than the 70mm. You should think about it. Since you have a skinny ski, you could make an argument that you go wider, but we just don't get the type of snow that justifies 110 over a 96 even once a season IMO. 

From time to time I have thought about building other skis into the mix, but this performs close enough for me as a narrow ski, and has eaten the (admittedly handful of) really deep powder days on the east coast, one or two storms in the 2-3 feet range over three or so years.

I took them to Copper CO two years ago, and they did great, including side country hike-to runs starting from something like 11,500 or 12,000 feet - no groomers get on those runs. I did fall forward on my first turn on the steep hike-to stuff but I think that was because my weight distribution was too east coast (90-10 outside/inside ski) versus a more even weight distribution of out west (or deep pow). 

It has tip and tail rocker, but still engages well on all turns including groomers, even quite firm. My home mountain is Belleayre, which can get very firm, very quick. 

It is 96mm underfoot. I think I ski the 172 or 176 (I am 5'9). It can hold groomers well (though on the super duper firm days, I would put money on your 70 mm). 

For performance, the MB performs really well in powder, trees, bumps, but you can also easily ski groomers and steeps. I have skied two or three 2 foot plus storms, and these skis really ate it up. I don't think I had to lean back or do any of the 'tricks' you might need to do if you did not have enough float or rocker. 

Another cool think about Jskis - you can ski them several days with a no ask return policy. When I bought it was three days, now it is five days. It is on the honor system. Also, you can call the company, tell them what you are looking for and they will recommend a ski type and size. Sales are directly through them online. I think the founder may have started and sold Head; if not Head, it was a different company. 

Other than MB, I haven't skied them, but skied consistently with a guy who used Head Kore 88. The construction seemed great, probably lighter than MB. I imagine the Kore in 88 93 or 98 would be good too. 

Good luck!


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## Ripitz

J skis are a great choice, especially the Master Blaster. It is comparable to the Stockli Stormrider with a much better price and they are made here on the East Coast. The company used to put on a few demo and customer appreciation days in Vermont. Don’t know how COVID has changed that. Either way I would demo some skis if possible. Even if you have narrowed your choice it will also help with choosing a length. 193cm is a big jump from 180cm. You need a lot of real estate for the longer lengths. I would recommend sizing down for East Coast skiing where there’s less room to run it out


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## riverc0il

Ripitz said:


> 193cm is a big jump from 180cm. You need a lot of real estate for the longer lengths. I would recommend sizing down for East Coast skiing where there’s less room to run it out


Quoted for emphasis. I am 6'1", down to 205lbs, and a ski it all expert skier focused on powder and trees. I never ski longer than a 186cm, and that is for twin tips (I go shorter with no twin, longer with a twin).

Don't be afraid of a bit more width. Add just a few mm's underneath and you open up to a lot of options in the 100cm range without having a dedicated deep powder only ski (here are *my thoughts* on some of them from last year). I've found that the narrower skis in a lineup sometimes don't perform as well as the wider skis in a given line, depending on how strong/big of a skier you are (I am a pretty aggressive skier and big boned dude, so take that statement fwiw).

Finally, it doesn't sound like you've skied on the type of ski that you are looking for. Getting yourself to a demo day (hopefully they have some next season!) will show you how dramatically different skis with the same dimensions can ski, even within the same brand and line. The differences can be so stark, that you can often rule out a ski after only a few turns.

Since your goal is a quiver, I would recommend finding a ski that specializes in soft snow and minimize your over lap. Skis like the Enforcer are intended as a one ski quiver skier with hard pack performance favored over soft snow (I do not have experience with the other skis you mentioned, though I have skied the Rustler 10 and that is going to be my next ski). If you want a soft snow, non-groomer ski, then get that type of ski... as opposed to a one ski quiver with hard pack bias that has significant overlap with your current ski.


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## Kingslug

Fan of the Head Kore line..i have the 117 and i can use it almost everyday if i want..i would check out the 93 or 99


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## MarcP

Guys,

I appreciate the responses.

So the Kore 93’s will go on the list.

Re: width, I struggle what to do here. If the progressors are relegated to hard snow/low tide conditions, that means I’m going to be on the new ones quite a bit. Which is why I leaned towards skis which fall on the on-slope biased side of things.

For length, I’m not too afraid of long skis. Back in the day I rocked 205 Elans which I loaded up on the old red Gondi and threw myself down the then new Rumor with reckless abandon. Also, get of my lawn!, etc etc...

Flat footed with no shoes, the progressors come up to my eyeball. The SR 193’s would be just at the top of my head. The next size down is a 184. Which might be too short?

Around here, how do I go about getting a demo?

Thanks!
Marc


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## Ripitz

I’m 5’7” 165 lbs and I sized up to 184cm Stormriders so I can use them out West. It’s a major size down from the skis I had living there. If I skied only East I could have sized down to a 175. You can almost get two pairs of J’s for the price of Stocklis. J’s and Shaggy's are reasonably priced, even their custom ones. Parlor has custom options too but they are high priced, even more than the Stocklis. I find the idea of a custom ski, domestically made by a small company very appealing. Especially since most have competitive price points and they help you navigate through the many options. I don’t have any info on demos for this year but I’ll hunt around and if I find anything I’ll post it


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## Johnny V.

Just my $.02, but I'd think most of those skis in the lengths your looking at might be quite a bit of work in tight eastern trees and bumps-especially the 190+ versions.


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## MarcP

So several comments on the 190+ lengths being too long. I’ll keep the lengths down.

The J’s look like they are either 181 or 187. Rustler 9’s are 180 or 188. Assuming I want the longer of those 2?

Dropping the SR’s; didn’t get approval from the budget director. So looks like:

J MB 187(?)
Enforcer 94 186
Kore 93 185
Ranger 92TI 185
Rustler 9 188(?)


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## riverc0il

MarcP said:


> Rustler 9’s are 180 or 188. Assuming I want the longer of those 2?


When I skied the Rustler 10s, I only skied the 180s but felt like they were the perfect length. Couldn't ski the 188 to compare, but I would order the 180s for myself. At the time I demoed, I was 260lbs (down to 205lbs, now!) and I am a 6'1" aggressive natural snow skier. The 180s flexed and responded perfectly for me and short, nimble, playful turns. Do the 9s have a Ti sheet? The 10s do. I have no experience with the other skis.

Sounds like you are a bit old school with your preference for ski length. Your mileage may vary, but I think you are looking too long given your preferences and specs. When I was in HS, I skied 204 straight skis, 198cm in college, 193 post college, been between 178-186 ever since... and 186 only with a full twin tip. 186cm would be way too long for me for a relatively flat tailed, or only slightly turned up tail.


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## x10003q

Whatever you get, I guarantee you will be done with your Fischer Progressor 9+. You should stay with something in the 90s.

The best choice for you is a Stockli Stormrider 95 in 184. Since you ran your Fischers for 12+ years, you could make the argument that the Stockli's will only cost $10/month including some new bindings. If that doesn't work, get a second job.

Do a demo day - Head Kore 93 in 180, Nordica Enforcer 94 in 186, Blizzard Brahma 88 in 183 are good places to start. 
I demoed all these skis and they were all enjoyable. I was amazed at the Head Kore lightness and ability to hold on hard snow.
6'2", 215.


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## MarcP

Oh! I like it. It’s not the cost, it’s the cost over time!


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## JTG

I saw a lot of Enforcers out on the hill at WF last weekend.

Building on what a few others have said, if you are going in the low to mid 90s range you may want to get something that will not only hold well in firmer conditions, but will also float well for the occasional powder day. The skis on your list maybe seem to lean a little more toward firm snow than soft/powder(?), with tip width maxing our around 128. Something a little wider tip and tail may give you better float in powder.

The Head Kore 93 looks like a great all around ski, with a wider tip/tail for float.

I’ll suggest checking into the ski I recently purchased as well, the Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition. Like the Kore it’s a bit wider tip and tail. Haven’t skied on it yet, but by all reviews it does everything well. With generous tip and tail splay the 188cm actual measures closer to 185cm. The stated tips at 134mm measure closer to 136mm, helping with float. It also has Elan’s Amphibio asymmetrical rocker profile, with more camber on the inside edge (to aid carving) and more rocker on the outside edge (to make the ski more playful). A twist on the asymmetrical sidecut I’m skiing with my K2s. I’m a fan, it’s not a gimmick. It does create a dedicated left and right ski. What sold me on the Black Edition was the combination of weight and stability. The use of carbon in the Black brings the ski in at 1600g per ski, easily 300 to 500 grams lighter than the skis on your list, but the carbon keeps it from getting pushed around a lot, as lighter skis often can. I plan on using the ski both inbounds and for touring (putting Shifts on). With your stated desire for a lighter ski that’s great in soft snow and also does everything else well the Ripstick is worth a look.

I really like Blister gear reviews, they are very thorough and give great comparisons to other/similar skis. They really like the Kore as well.

Good luck, and happy shopping!


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## JTG

x10003q said:


> I was amazed at the Head Kore lightness and ability to hold on hard snow.
> 6'2", 215.


Blister really liked the Kore 93 as well. For a ski that comes in under 1600g it’s very stable with great edge hold. Head’s racing heritage for you I guess. They’ve come a long way from the 205 Comp SL I raced in HS. If I hadn’t fallen for the Ripsticks I’d have looked at the Kore.


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## Brownski

Have you looked at the Charger Love thread? Those guys have me 90% convinced to go with a Vector for my next ski. I’m in a similar position to you in that I have the hard pack and normal crud covered by my current ski and really just need something wider and lighter for deeper snow and more adventurous days. I picked one up and turned it over in my hands the other day and really made me want it even more.


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## BRLKED

Hey I'm tele guy but love my Kore 93, I' on a 180 at 165 lbs no problem in the trees , soft or crud just me.


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## BRLKED

Brownski said:


> Have you looked at the Charger Love thread? Those guys have me 90% convinced to go with a Vector for my next ski. I’m in a similar position to you in that I have the hard pack and normal crud covered by my current ski and really just need something wider and lighter for deeper snow and more adventurous days. I picked one up and turned it over in my hands the other day and really made me want it even more.


Vector is not a groomer ski, soft snow only!


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## Brownski

BRLKED said:


> Vector is not a groomer ski, soft snow only!


Yes, That’s what I thought. The OP stated he has groomers covered. From his original question: “ I think I want a lighter, more soft snow oriented ski that I can use for mid/late season or when we get dumped on.”


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## Ripitz

MarcP, you are gonna need a few different pairs in your quiver. A good number is three but two can work. Right now you are only choosing one


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## Harvey

I'm a quiver of one guy, I almost don't ski if the snow is to crappy for my skis.


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## Ripitz

1. Piste
2. All mountain
3. Powder
You can pick one but there will be sacrifices if you ski all conditions


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## MarcP

Realistically between the Progressors I have and a mid 90’s all mountain, what more could I possibly need for CNY with an occasional trip to Gore or Whiteface. I’ve got a full time job and the kids with all their stuff; so I’m not chasing powder days. It’s just when I want to bash bumps all morning or mess around in the woods the Progressors are quite the handful.


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## Ripitz

MarcP said:


> I want to bash bumps all morning or mess around in the woods


I would rule out the Stocklis


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## Campgottagopee

It ain't the arrow, rather the Indian


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## JTG

New markdowns on 2021 skis at SkiEssentials. They have Kore 93 and Ranger 92Ti. Look like decent deals.


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## riverc0il

Campgottagopee said:


> It ain't the arrow, rather the Indian


But the Indian shots better when they have better quality arrows. Hell of a difference between skiing a GS cheater ski vs. a ski designed for soft snow. You could use the wrong tool for the job... more of a difference between knowing when to shoot an arrow or pull out a hatchet.

The issue you want to avoid, is just getting another arrow that doesn't do a lot more than the arrow you already have. If you want a quiver, you need to put two very different arrows into the quiver with as little overlap as possible. Otherwise, what is the point? Might as well just get a one ski quiver that covers more bases.


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## MarcP

Ok, I think I need to make a change ASAP. As you may know we got nuked on Friday night/Saturday morning. No joke legit 2-4” per hour snowfall. Anyway, since I don’t float on my current skis it was pretty deep but fortunately light enough to push around. Until I made a turn close to a lift tower and found about 3 ft of uncompacted drift with a crust about 12” below the surface. I had major tip dive which caused a double forward ejection that ended my day about 3 pm. 
I know rocker helps. I know width helps. Assuming I dumb enough to keep skiing where most people don’t, what else do I need to help this? Is there some magical tip shape that keeps folks from getting tripped up like that?

Frustrated...


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## JTG

Finding a lighter, playful kind of jibby mid-fat with a nice swing weight makes recoveries easier, let’s you throw the skis sideways more easily when needed to avoid some of those situations. Skis like that are also just plain fun to ski in general.


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## idratherbskiing

The tip dive could have been body position or just a moment we all have once in awhile. Pow skiing on skinnies takes practice, and not knowing what is lurking underneath doesnt help. As for skis....If you can wait until next season when they have more skis available JSkis "All Play" is a fun ski, handle everything you throw at them. https://jskis.com/collections/allplay/products/cedar

Other options you may want to Check out Solomon QST99 was fun when I demoed a pair, and then the Nordica Enforcer.

Go to shop mid week, talk to the guys in the store they love talking gear. Support your local shop


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## MarcP

Eh,

My local shop is The Ski Company, which isn’t all that great. Maybe I’ll try the one in Ithaca, Cayuga Ski?


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## MarcP

Took the long way home and went to the Ski Company tonight. They're picked over pretty good but found a couple options.

2021 Kone 93, 189, about $100 more than the online retailers. Didn't realize that they were actually 95 underfoot at the 189 length. Extremely light, 17m radius seems about right.

2020 Bonafide, 187, about $100 less than the online retailers. 98 width, pretty heavy and stiff, 20m radius has me thinking West Coast not CNY. The price has me tempted but I don't think they're exactly what I want.

They also had a QST 99 in something like a 188 but the shop guy said "you don't want that" so I didn't really look at it to closely.

He was steering me towards the Kore's but then he said they had metal in them which reminded me why I don't like the place. Not only was the info wrong but its the one thing that is supposed to be unique about the skis; stiff but light because no metal. Shop guy also said that none of the reps do demos around here anymore; and that if I wanted a demo I would have to travel.

So that's what I'm up against here with the local guys.

Marc


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## tirolski

MarcP said:


> Shop guy also said that none of the reps do demos around here anymore; and that if I wanted a demo I would have to travel.
> 
> So that's what I'm up against here with the local guys.
> 
> Marc


Marc Bristol has demos, never tried it but it's CNY.





Craft Ski Demo Center | Bristol Mountain | Canandaigua, NY


Tempted to try a higher performance ski or a new brand? Our Demo Center staff will assist you in finding a ski that is unique & tailored to your abilities.




www.bristolmountain.com


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## idratherbskiing

MarcP said:


> Took the long way home and went to the Ski Company tonight. They're picked over pretty good but found a couple options.
> 
> 2021 Kone 93, 189, about $100 more than the online retailers. Didn't realize that they were actually 95 underfoot at the 189 length. Extremely light, 17m radius seems about right.
> 
> 2020 Bonafide, 187, about $100 less than the online retailers. 98 width, pretty heavy and stiff, 20m radius has me thinking West Coast not CNY. The price has me tempted but I don't think they're exactly what I want.
> 
> They also had a QST 99 in something like a 188 but the shop guy said "you don't want that" so I didn't really look at it to closely.
> 
> He was steering me towards the Kore's but then he said they had metal in them which reminded me why I don't like the place. Not only was the info wrong but its the one thing that is supposed to be unique about the skis; stiff but light because no metal. Shop guy also said that none of the reps do demos around here anymore; and that if I wanted a demo I would have to travel.
> 
> So that's what I'm up against here with the local guys.
> 
> Marc


I have the 2018 Bonafide 178, I'm 5'8 for ref. Very fun ski, but you do have to drive it. Holds well on hard pack, can rip huge GS turns and floats in the fresh. Keep this in mind, when you buy online you will end up paying a mounting fee at any shop ($40-100 depending where you go.). Buy at a shop you will likely get that for free. Sucks your shop is sh*tty, maybe different shop on your next trip to a different mountain. 

Read some reviews on the QST, they seem to be loved all around.


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## JTG

You want a lighter ski. Bonafide is not that. Strong, damp, stable, needs to be driven....Bonafide seems great if you are looking for that. Did the shop steer you toward the Bonafide?


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## Campgottagopee

riverc0il said:


> But the Indian shots better when they have better quality arrows. Hell of a difference between skiing a GS cheater ski vs. a ski designed for soft snow. You could use the wrong tool for the job... more of a difference between knowing when to shoot an arrow or pull out a hatchet.
> 
> The issue you want to avoid, is just getting another arrow that doesn't do a lot more than the arrow you already have. If you want a quiver, you need to put two very different arrows into the quiver with as little overlap as possible. Otherwise, what is the point? Might as well just get a one ski quiver that covers more bases.



I come from an era where I taught skiing on 210 Atomic Yellow Sleds, skied bumps on them, skied pow on them, and skied crud on them. A skier can make any ski do what they want to do. When in doubt straighten them out


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## Ripitz

Campgottagopee said:


> I come from an era where I taught skiing on 210 Atomic Yellow Sleds, skied bumps on them, skied pow on them, and skied crud on them. A skier can make any ski do what they want to do. When in doubt straighten them out


I remember when long skis were considered best. Anything below 200 and you’d be laughed at. I used to lap the Big Sky tram on a pair of 223s. They didn’t even fit in the cabin and I would have to stick them out the window. Now I ski on 177s and 185s and although I was having fun before, I think I’m having more fun now.


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## Kingslug

I just bought the Head Kore 93 off amazon for 393.00 , got the last one. Its going to replace my Sultan 85 which are 10 years old and heavy. Very good reviews for them. Have the 117 version and they rock in almost anything.


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## Tjf1967

Ripitz said:


> I remember when long skis were considered best. Anything below 200 and you’d be laughed at. I used to lap the Big Sky tram on a pair of 223s. They didn’t even fit in the cabin and I would have to stick them out the window. Now I ski on 177s and 185s and although I was having fun before, I think I’m having more fun now.


Shaped skis came out before the tram was built.


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## Kingslug

And heres something to think about. I don't do much touring any more but all my skis have hybrid touring bindings on them and I use touring boots. Not the super light stuff. The ones that are good at down hill: like these








Salomon Men's Alpine Touring Ski Boots | REI Co-op


Shop for Salomon Men's Alpine Touring Ski Boots at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guarantee




www.rei.com





They are great to walk around in, rubber lugged soles and lighter than regular boots. Same with the bindings..much lighter..couple that with a light ski and ..a lot easier to do anything out there.


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## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> I come from an era where I taught skiing on 210 Atomic Yellow Sleds, skied bumps on them, skied pow on them, and skied crud on them. A skier can make any ski do what they want to do. When in doubt straighten them out


Duuuuude....you can even make ‘em do what you want by employing the good ‘ol Stem-Christy...but why?

Skiing is just more fun, and more efficient, if you stick with the times! It took me a looong while to learn that.....


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## JTG

Kingslug said:


> And heres something to think about. I don't do much touring any more but all my skis have hybrid touring bindings on them and I use touring boots. Not the super light stuff. The ones that are good at down hill: like these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Salomon Men's Alpine Touring Ski Boots | REI Co-op
> 
> 
> Shop for Salomon Men's Alpine Touring Ski Boots at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are great to walk around in, rubber lugged soles and lighter than regular boots. Same with the bindings..much lighter..couple that with a light ski and ..a lot easier to do anything out there.


Yeah, I wouldn’t consider new boots for myself or my boys (both 17 and up, using my hand-me-downs) without tech fittings. Given the MNC nature of things these days, plus my desire for my kids to be able to use my touring setups, there’s no reason. I’m currently skiing K2 Pinnacle Pros, but there are a lot of very good similar boots out there now. Not the lightest, but with a 130 flex there is no compromise on the down! 100 flex may be lighter (?), but is that stiff enough for typical alpine? Last boot I had that wasn’t a 130 flex had to be a pair of rear entry Raichle RX8.


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## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> Duuuuude....you can even make ‘em do what you want by employing the good ‘ol Stem-Christy...but why?
> 
> Skiing is just more fun, and more efficient, if you stick with the times! It took me a looong while to learn that.....



Not disagreeing with any of this. I simply stated it ain't the arrow, that's all  

And yes, the new skis are more fun because they're easy to ski and don't require work to make them turn. It's really cheating imo. But I guess it really isn't cheating, eh??

Crap, now I'm so confused ?‍♂️


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## Campgottagopee

MarcP said:


> Maybe I’ll try the one in Ithaca, Cayuga Ski



The owner there is an awesome boot fitter. I got mine there, he took all the time in the world with me having them custom fit. They ain't cheap, but BY FAR the are the best performing boots I've ever had.

When I took my old boots in he started laughing as he's pulling all the different wedges I had duct taped in there. He shook his head saying, yeah we used to do that back in the 80's too. LOL


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## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> Not disagreeing with any of this. I simply stated it ain't the arrow, that's all
> 
> And yes, the new skis are more fun because they're easy to ski and don't require work to make them turn. It's really cheating imo. But I guess it really isn't cheating, eh??
> 
> Crap, now I'm so confused ?‍♂️


It’s all good.

I saw some super skinny straight skis at Platty on Sunday....probably would make Broski jealous!


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## gorgonzola

Kingslug said:


> Sultan 85


loved that ski, bought a pair of legend x106's the end of last season. Great in soft snow but still trying to figure them out on the groomed

i'd love to know why he steered you away from the qst


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## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> It’s all good.



I ski on cheater skis now too

However, I can say I do know and understand how to initiate a turn, weight the middle of the of the turn, and finish a turn. New skis just add pressure and roll your ankles = cheating


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## Tjf1967

Campgottagopee said:


> I ski on cheater skis now too
> 
> However, I can say I do know and understand how to initiate a turn, weight the middle of the of the turn, and finish a turn. New skis just add pressure and roll your ankles = cheating


Yeah but can you do jump turns??


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## Campgottagopee

Tjf1967 said:


> Yeah but can you do jump turns??



FKNA I can 

I got all them old skewl moves


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## Ripitz

Tjf1967 said:


> Shaped skis came out before the tram was built.


That may be true but they were only seen on the feet of tourists. Most expert skis at that time were skinny and had GS side cuts. Parabolics and fat skis first came about to help people with less experience. It took years for them to be embraced at the higher level.


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## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> I remember when long skis were considered best.


 IMO, they still are. I always buy the longest ski that they make in whatever ski I'm looking to purchase. That said they ain't too long anymore. I think my Patrons are 198, the rest of my skis are all 181 to 188's.


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## MarcP

No, the shop guys didn’t even tell me about the Bones, I noticed them sitting there and the really cheap price and asked why. Turns out they are orphans that didn’t sell last year.

Anyway, don’t know why he didn’t think the QST was worth talking about.

At least one of the online retailers implies that if you buy a ski and binding from them and give them your BSL they’ll mount them up before shipping.


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## JTG

Tjf1967 said:


> Yeah but can you do jump turns??


Damn, bruh.....’course everyone can “do” a JT.

Real question is, can you throw ‘em down with steeze, everywhere on the mountain, even in places they clearly aren’t necessary?

It ain’t easy being the G....


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## idratherbskiing

Campgottagopee said:


> IMO, they still are. I always buy the longest ski that they make in whatever ski I'm looking to purchase. That said they ain't too long anymore. I think my Patrons are 198, the rest of my skis are all 181 to 188's.


Agree! I still remember when you'd go in a shop and you got your skis by sticking your arm straight up.


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## JTG

MarcP said:


> At least one of the online retailers implies that if you buy a ski and binding from them and give them your BSL they’ll mount them up before shipping.


SkiEssentials will, or so the site says. That’s where I got the Ripsticks. Rushed the purchase to grab a 20% off sale (skis ended up being $442), but kinda regret not having gotten the Shifts from them, with free mounting. Yeah, after shopping for Shifts and the hassle of bringing them somewhere for mounting I’ll save a few bucks, but not that many.

Shipping from Ski Essentials was SUPER quick.


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## gorgonzola

long skis truck, short skis suck!

that being said i sized down a few cm's this time around, getting old sucks too!


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## Ripitz

gorgonzola said:


> long skis truck, short skis suck!
> 
> that being said i sized down a few cm's this time around, getting old sucks too!


Ha! Reminds me of this guy’s site. Buy them all up before someone makes them into chairs





Long Skis Truck: Buy, Sell & Trade. Vintage, Antique, Retro & Classic.


A rare collection of fine snow skis: Featuring hard to find, classic, vintage, retro, antique, long, straight, racing, mogul, freestyle, powder, (SL) Slalom



longskistruck.com


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## gorgonzola

Ripitz said:


> Ha! Reminds me of this guy’s site. Buy them all up before someone makes them into chairs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long Skis Truck: Buy, Sell & Trade. Vintage, Antique, Retro & Classic.
> 
> 
> A rare collection of fine snow skis: Featuring hard to find, classic, vintage, retro, antique, long, straight, racing, mogul, freestyle, powder, (SL) Slalom
> 
> 
> 
> longskistruck.com



yea thanks for that rabbit hole lol!


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## JTG

gorgonzola said:


> yea thanks for that rabbit hole lol!


Yup.

How many of those did you have?

I had the K2 KVC, K2 Four, and K2 5500.


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## Ripitz

I’ve got the Swiss Army skis that he has listed for $795. That’s ridiculous. Someone probably fished them out of a dumpster. Mine are in perfect condition and I also have the skins. Found them at Cascade Ski Center in the consignment section for $40


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## Campgottagopee

I'd be interested in hearing RA's take. I'm guessing he's skied both old skewel skis and shaped skis.
Imo, shaped skis gave balls to some to ski bigger lines that may have actually been over their heads on straight skis. Extreme skiers of the 70's and 80's, imo, kick ass.


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