# The Definitive Solution to the Upstate NY Question



## Brownski

First of all, this thread belongs right here. Let’s not get all moderator’y about it. Now I have spent (wasted) a lot of time pondering this. I’ve listened to a lot of different points of view and as far as I can tell, the line between upstate and downstate goes from the western border of Rockland County, along the eastern/southern edge of Harriman/Bear Mountain Parks, across the Bear Mountain Mountain Bridge, south of Camp Smith, northern border of Peekskill to the Taconic and then along Route 6 until it bears north and more or less east from there to the CT border. Or thereabouts.


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## Ripitz

I agree, the Bear Mountain Bridge is a logical delineation. What about the Upstate of mind?


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## rebel1916

Depending on how I feel it is either the northern border of Yonkers or Woodbury Commons.


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## Peter Minde

Upstate is not necessarily the North Country tho.


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## Brownski

Peter Minde said:


> Upstate is not necessarily the North Country tho.


Whut?


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## rebel1916

Peter Minde said:


> Upstate is not necessarily the North Country tho.


The North Country is definitely different then generic upstate


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## trackbiker

Not being from NY I would propose that the Upstate is anything in NY outside of this map.
NY Metropilitan Area Map


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## XTski

North coun


Peter Minde said:


> Upstate is not necessarily the North Country tho.


right, the north country is north of Albany


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## Warp daddy

Nope the ""REAL NORTH COUNTRY IS THE EIGHT Northern most counties ( Clinton, Franklin , Essex, Hamilton, St Lawrence , Jefferson Lewis and Warren ) the natives here all call this area "THE North Country " not by any county name it IS A THING ???

To add to your Deposit of Knowledge BSki :

We woodchucks know that the other parts of the state are called NYC and the great region called TILNOW
( there IS Life North Of Westchester) ?


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## MarzNC

trackbiker said:


> Not being from NY I would propose that the Upstate is anything in NY outside of this map.
> NY Metropilitan Area Map


That's more or less the way I felt growing up in NYC. Anything north of Bear Mountain or my summer camp in Rhinebeck, NY was "upstate." Although the Finger Lakes region where I went to camp later on was another region completely and unrelated to "upstate." Guess because it was south of the NY Turnpike to the west of Albany.


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## rebel1916

trackbiker said:


> Not being from NY I would propose that the Upstate is anything in NY outside of this map.
> NY Metropilitan Area Map


Ulster County is largely the Catskills. The Catskills are upstate.


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## Warp daddy

Nope the ""REAL NORTH COUNTRY IS THE EIGHT Northern most counties ( Clinton, Franklin , Essex, Hamilton, St Lawrence , Jefferson Lewis and Warren ) the rest of


Peter Minde said:


> Upstate is not necessarily the North County


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## Brownski

Yeah, the North Country is different. I don’t think it’s borders are in dispute. But the idea that Kingston isn’t upstate would surprise a lot of people. You get off the Kingston exit to go to Belleayre and the pizza is definitely upstate quality so ….


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## ScottySkis

Brownski said:


> Yeah, the North Country is different. I don’t think it’s borders are in dispute. But the idea that Kingston isn’t upstate would surprise a lot of people. You get off the Kingston exit to go to Belleayre and the pizza is definitely upstate quality so ….


Very true


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## jasonwx

Brownski said:


> Yeah, the North Country is different. I don’t think it’s borders are in dispute. But the idea that Kingston isn’t upstate would surprise a lot of people. You get off the Kingston exit to go to Belleayre and the pizza is definitely upstate quality so ….


Lol
Brio’s isn’t bad tho


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## marcski

Life long NY'er here. (For better or worse!). This is a tough question. New York, as discussed herein, can't really be defined in terms of just upstate and downstate. Both Trackbiker and Rebel's points are totally valid. I know people that live in Kingston and Poughkeepsie and commute down to NYC area. But, further west (or east in case of Dutchess) you're in mountains with Bears. Also, NYC Metro area most likely takes into account the overall financial impact of NYC on those counties. If I had to choose a specific line just between upstate and downstate, I'd agree with Trackbiker.

For me, I think New York State = *NYC Metro Area* (My definition being more in line with Brownski's for this purpose). Then the *Hudson Valley* up through the Capital Region. Then the *Capital Region* = Albany, Rennselear, Schenectady and Saratoga Counties. All Counties north (and Washington) = *Upstate* all the way through Wayne, Schuyler, Seneca, Chemung and all counties west which = *Western NY*. You can keep going here and chopping up the state further and further. There is no real end. I probably should have included an area in central NY for the Finger Lake Region.


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## Ripitz

I think whether or not Putnam County and the Hudson Highlands are upstate is the question. The upstate line is either the Southern boundary (Bear Mountain Bridge) of Putnam or the Northern (Breakneck and Storm King) Everything North of 84 is definitely upstate but that’s where Downstate Correctional Facilty is so that complicates things. Ellenville, New Paltz, Rhinebeck, Millbrook, Amenia and Kingston are definitely upstate. I guess there could be an argument for Poughkeepsie which is where Metro North ends.








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## Milo Maltbie

Ripitz said:


> I think whether or not Putnam County and the Hudson Highlands are upstate is the question. The upstate line is either the Southern boundary (Bear Mountain Bridge) of Putnam or the Northern (Breakneck and Storm King) Everything North of 84 is definitely upstate but that’s where Downstate Correctional Facilty is so that complicates things. Ellenville, New Paltz, Rhinebeck, Millbrook, Amenia and Kingston are definitely upstate. I guess there could be an argument for Poughkeepsie which is where Metro North ends.
> 
> 
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> Home - Upstate Films, Ltd.
> 
> 
> Tickets & Showtimes · Starr Cinema · RhinebeckTickets & Showtimes · Orpheum Theatre · SaugertiesMedicine Day New Years Eve ShowDECEMBER 31Coen Brothers Double FeatureJANUARY 1AftersunOPENS JANUARY 6Isle of Hope with Mary Stuart Masterson & Diane LaddJANUARY 12Paris, TexasOPENS JANUARY...
> 
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> www.upstatefilms.org


This^^^^^
There used to be something called the Bear Mountain Compact. It was a secret agreement among legislators that whatever happened north of the Bear Mount bridge would never be discussed back in the city. Mostly it was about who was sleeping with who in the DeWitt Clinton hotel.

mm


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## saratogahalfday

Brownski said:


> First of all, this thread belongs right here. Let’s not get all moderator’y about it. Now I have spent (wasted) a lot of time pondering this. I’ve listened to a lot of different points of view and as far as I can tell, the line between upstate and downstate goes from the western border of Rockland County, along the eastern/southern edge of Harriman/Bear Mountain Parks, across the Bear Mountain Mountain Bridge, south of Camp Smith, northern border of Peekskill to the Taconic and then along Route 6 until it bears north and more or less east from there to the CT border. Or thereabouts.


The real question is what defines "downstate?" For me it's the most northern stops of Metro-North.


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## Brownski

saratogahalfday said:


> The real question is what defines "downstate?" For me it's the most northern stops of Metro-North.


Others have proposed the Metro North rule before but technically that would include Port Jarvis and all of Orange County. I feel like Orange should be upstate. They’ve still got an awful lot of cows in Orange County.


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## Ripitz

If cows = upstate then Dutchess County is upstate too. Lot’s of dairy in Dutchess starting at the southern border with Jackson’s Farm just off the Taconic south of the intersection with I-84. I’ve heard people say that’s when they feel like they are in the country when they come up the Taconic and get to that point. I never use the term downstate. It has a derogatory feel to it. As if the people up North look down on the people to the South. Maybe that’s in my head or maybe they do. Maybe both. I do use the term upcountry. I have quite a few clients with second homes in Garrison, Pawling and Millbrook. “When will you be upcountry next?” I would say, instead of saying upstate.


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## x10003q

Brownski said:


> Others have proposed the Metro North rule before but technically that would include Port Jarvis and all of Orange County. I feel like Orange should be upstate. They’ve still got an awful lot of cows in Orange County.


But there are also a lot of NYC firemen and cops living in Orange County. I worked in NYC with a bunch of people who commuted from Warwick. Orange Cty is downstate for me.


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## Campgottagopee




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## Low Angle Life

The upstate downstate doesn't trouble me nearly as much as the entire concept of the "Hudson Valley". I guess I get particularly irked as a New Jersey resident who can literally walk to the river and yet the Hudson Valley starts at exit 15 on the thruway with seemingly no boundary's to the east or west beyond the state boarder and maybe the Delaware County line. Personally I feel more in the Hudson Valley a short bike ride away from the Piermont Pier than I feel anyone in Sloatsburg is.


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## Milo Maltbie

Low Angle Life said:


> ...I get particularly irked as a New Jersey resident who can literally walk to the river and yet the Hudson Valley starts at exit 15 ...


I thought Jersey residents were only irked about not being part of New York City. Who knew they could also be irked about not being part of New York State?

mm


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## Harvey

Low Angle Life said:


> The upstate downstate doesn't trouble me nearly as much as the entire concept of the "Hudson Valley". I guess I get particularly irked as a New Jersey resident who can literally walk to the river and yet the Hudson Valley starts at exit 15 on the thruway with seemingly no boundary's to the east or west beyond the state boarder and maybe the Delaware County line. Personally I feel more in the Hudson Valley a short bike ride away from the Piermont Pier than I feel anyone in Sloatsburg is.


Haha get your own thread! ? 

The Hudson Valley is long! Our place is in it in the Adk. Maybe not technically the valley at 1900' but certainly in the watershed.

Lower HV
Mid HV
Upper HV
NJ HV? It's not that Valley-ish there, but I say legit!


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## Low Angle Life

The boarders mean nothing to me as someone who's spent a my whole life crisscrossing them in the rugged hills where arbitrary lines drawn by dead white men mean nothing. Its more what I feel is a mislabeling that irks me, I live near the Palisades, I wouldn't consider a geologic feature like these cliffs part of a valley and going off that same logic IMHO the "Hudson Valley" should start north of 84 one you've traveled north through the Hudson Highlands. Ellenville is often considered part of the Hudson Valley, and yet I would argue that because it sits west of the Shawangunk ridge, it should fall outside of this zone.


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## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Our place is in it in the Adk


Was going to say the same thing


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## Brownski

I don’t know. I understand that New York Harbor and New York Bay are probably part of the Hudson River but still… “Hudson Valley” evokes a sort of New England-like charm that just doesn’t exist in Fort Lee or Hoboken. On the other hand, as noted above, much if the actual Hudson Valley doesn’t live up to that stereotype either so welcome to Dirty Jersey I guess.


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## tirolski

Low Angle Life said:


> The boarders mean nothing to me as someone who's spent a my whole life crisscrossing them in the rugged hills where arbitrary lines drawn by dead white men mean nothing. Its more what I feel is a mislabeling that irks me, ...


Ya could add a stanza to Imagine, an old retired Beatle's song.


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## Harvey

Low Angle Life said:


> The boarders mean nothing to me


Boarders are people too!


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## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> Boarders are people too!


That’s debatable


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## wonderpony

Downstate is defined by your accent. 

*I* don't have an accent. Trust me. I grew up in Ithaca and spent a year in Athens, OH when my dad was on sabbatical. When I was in HS, we spent a year in Seattle, where somebody told me that I have an accent. I am pretty sure they are wrong.


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## Ripitz

Low Angle Life said:


> The upstate downstate doesn't trouble me nearly as much as the entire concept of the "Hudson Valley". I guess I get particularly irked as a New Jersey resident who can literally walk to the river and yet the Hudson Valley starts at exit 15 on the thruway with seemingly no boundary's to the east or west beyond the state boarder and maybe the Delaware County line. Personally I feel more in the Hudson Valley a short bike ride away from the Piermont Pier than I feel anyone in Sloatsburg is.


Cry me a Hudson River Valley. If it’s in the watershed and is in between two 1,000ft hills then it’s in the “Valley”. Everything else doesn’t measure up or is outside the zone


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## Brownski

wonderpony said:


> Downstate is defined by your accent.
> 
> *I* don't have an accent. Trust me. I grew up in Ithaca and spent a year in Athens, OH when my dad was on sabbatical. When I was in HS, we spent a year in Seattle, where somebody told me that I have an accent. I am pretty sure they are wrong.


I had a similar experience when I was working in AK. I don’t have an accent either but everybody there thought I did. A coworker from Oregon couldn’t be convinced I wasn’t Italian. Go figure.


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## Harvey

Ripitz said:


> If it’s in the watershed and is in between two 1,000ft hills then it’s in the “Valley”. Everything else doesn’t measure up or is outside the zone



Catamount?


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## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> Catamount?


Catamount is unequivocally Upstate in the Hudson Valley


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## Johnny V.

I'll throw in my .02. I was a manufacturers rep for 20+ years and our sales territory was Upstate NY. The lower boundaries were the top of Westchester and Rockland counties, so that's always been the definition to me.

As an aside, we'd get sales managers who had no idea how big the state was-"I'll fly into Buffalo and we can visit accounts in Albany in the afternoon".


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## Low Angle Life

Ripitz said:


> Cry me a Hudson River Valley. If it’s in the watershed and is in between two 1,000ft hills then it’s in the “Valley”. Everything else doesn’t measure up or is outside the zone


You got me with your watershed logic, I'll quit my trolling, although Utica as the Hudson Valley..? What do I know, I'm not even a "Downstater".


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## Milo Maltbie

Utica is in the Mohawk drainage, which in turn drains to the Hudson. But real estate does not necessarily follow hydrology. In the real estate world, the Hudson Valley extends from Bear Mountain to Hudson, between the Catskills and Route 22.

The Hudson Valley is Upstate, as is the North Country and Western NY. Sing Sing is only upstate in gangster movies. the Catskills are a Downstate colony in Upstate, governed by the NYC DEP. The North Country is a tourist plantation governed by the absentee overlords of the APA. 

mm


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## Harvey

Low Angle Life said:


> You got me with your watershed logic, I'll quit my trolling, although Utica as the Hudson Valley..? What do I know, I'm not even a "Downstater".
> View attachment 9853


Where is Catamount? In or out? It's close.

ETA: Yes?!



https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/wf/karner-brook-watershed-acec-map-tile-15a_0.pdf


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## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> The North Country is a tourist plantation governed by the absentee overlords of the APA.


You ain't kidding there!!! It's really too bad.


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## Brownski

Low Angle Life said:


> You got me with your watershed logic, I'll quit my trolling, although Utica as the Hudson Valley..? What do I know, I'm not even a "Downstater".
> View attachment 9853


That is an awesome map but I’m pretty sure when people talk about “the Hudson Valley” as a region, they’re referring to the portion between Albany and the city- probably from the the MA and CT borders to whatever we would consider the western edge of the Catskills region. As an aside. I think we may need a cool maps thread too


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## Brownski

I just remembered this was in my photo history. It’s from the Capital District Welcome Center on the Thruway. Not definitive unfortunately


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## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> I just remembered this was in my photo history. It’s from the Capital District Welcome Center on the Thruway. Not definitive unfortunately
> 
> View attachment 9855


Yep 
Pretty much the same as DEC hunting zones.


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## tirolski

Finger Lakes are upstate and folks are happy they found something on the bottom of the deepest.








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## Brownski

That’s pretty cool


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## ne_skier

jasonwx said:


> Lol
> Brio’s isn’t bad tho


My Belleayre area restaurant guide:
Casual American comfort food/BBQ: J Rocco's on 28 just past Phoenicia
More upscale dining: Binnekill Tavern in Margaretville, Peekamoose if not available
Pizza: Oakley's is a go-to spot, Brio's and Goatee White's in Phoenicia and Fleischmanns respectively are decent local options as well

That'll be $80 cash or check only


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## Harvey

Turns out Rochester is actually part of the midwest:


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## Harvey

ne_skier said:


> My Belleayre area restaurant guide:



My Belleayre area restaurant guide:

WhyTF isn't the Peekamoose open at 4pm instead of 5?


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## Brownski

Linguistic groups don’t define the upstate. It is a diverse and welcoming place.


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## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> WhyTF isn't the Peekamoose open at 4pm instead of 5?


Maybe they are hardcore and ski until last chair?


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## Harvey

Fair enough.

The two times I skied until last chair at Belle, we've gone to Peekamoose arriving about 4:30. Wait 30 mins for them to open, and then when they let us in they told us they weren't really ready yet, so we left. (Long ride home.)

How's the food?


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## Harvey

Brownski said:


> Linguistic groups don’t define the upstate. It is a diverse and welcoming place.



What is a cultural region? Accent?


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## Milo Maltbie

At one time I spent a lot of time traveling around Western NY, Ohio and Indiana. Rochester was definitely in the Midwest. The most obvious clue was that in the morning you couldn't get any kind of hard roll or bagel or any kind of pastry that wasn't covered with sticky sugar icing. It totally disrupted my morning routine. 

mm


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## Warp daddy

Harvey said:


> Turns out Rochester is actually part of the midwest:


Not sure about Roch Cha cha ' BUT BUFFALO is definitely "attitudinally " aligned more closely with the Midwest


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## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> At one time I spent a lot of time traveling around Western NY, Ohio and Indiana. Rochester was definitely in the Midwest. The most obvious clue was that in the morning you couldn't get any kind of hard roll or bagel or any kind of pastry that wasn't covered with sticky sugar icing. It totally disrupted my morning routine.
> 
> mm


There's also the soda vs pop thing


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## Brownski

Harvey said:


> What is a cultural region? Accent?


You know what? I may have looked at your map and jumped to a conclusion. It looks very much like a map of American Linguistic regions I’ve seen before. Western New York is indeed part of the northern Midwest group- folks that call soda pop and say “eh“ and stuff.


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## tirolski

Harvey said:


> Turns out Rochester is actually part of the midwest:
> 
> 
> Cultural Regions of the United States - Round 2 from
> MapPorn


North Merica has 9 nations according to the author but it was a few decades ago. Things could’ve changed, allegedly.








174 - The Nine Nations of North America


Forget about the United States of America, forget about Canada and about Mexico. North America might be divided into these three states, but the northern half of the American continent […]




bigthink.com


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## tirolski

NY just got our 1st female Governor & 1st Governor in a 100 years (Nate Miller was from Groton, graduated college in Cortland) from Upstate in the same person.

If ya count Hamburg Upstate.
She’s a Cuse grad.


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## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> What is a cultural region? Accent?


Way more than accent in my opinion.

Look that the different areas in California. The more extreme accents are all along the east coast because that's been settled for far longer. There isn't the same extreme accent differences between Oregon and Southern CA as between Maine and Georgia, but certainly different "cultures."


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## Harvey

MarzNC said:


> Way more than accent in my opinion.
> 
> Look that the different areas in California. The more extreme accents are all along the east coast because that's been settled for far longer. There isn't the same extreme accent differences between Oregon and Southern CA as between Maine and Georgia, but certainly different "cultures."


So then what is that map showing?


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## tirolski

Looks like Rochester and Buffalo were allowed in Upstate for the Round 3 revision in yer map.


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## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> So then what is that map showing?


Think about the areas in the northeast. Do those make sense to you? The way most people think and act who live in NYC Metro certainly isn't remotely like other parts of NY or New England.

Note that NC is in two regions. The mountains in the west the common element for Southern Appalachia. That makes sense to be in comparison to the Piedmont and coastal areas of the state.

The different areas of the midwest also make general sense to me based on a few visit to the region. Southern Indiana and Ohio certainly don't feel like Minn./St. Paul and northern MN. Meaning the people, not the geography. The history of settlement in a given area is key. The cultural differences evolved in the 18th and 19th centuries, not the 20th.


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## MarzNC

The way this version is labeled makes it a little more obvious what divides neighboring "cultures." Clearly a combination of geography, meaning mountain chains and coastal regions. CA and FL have a lot of people, especially in comparison to the Great Plains and Rockies. So it makes sense that those areas and NYC metro have smaller areas that are considered to have a separate culture, or more accurately, sub-culture. There is clearly something different between American culture vs. Canadian or Mexican or any other country of the world.

When I took my friend's teen son to NM in March to ski Taos, he immediately noticed that the houses near the airport looked very different than what he's seen in the southeast or northeast. NM food is certainly different from traditional NC food.


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## Campgottagopee

Upstate starts wherever it is people actually stop for a red light.


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## Ripitz

Campgottagopee said:


> Upstate starts wherever it is people actually stop for a red light.


and step on the brake not the gas when it turns yellow.


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## Ripitz

Upstate may also be wherever you see signs for night crawlers at the convenience stores. I worked with a woman from the hood who thought the signs were for malt liquor.


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## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> Upstate starts wherever it is people actually stop for a red light.


Gotta exclude Albany then. 

mm


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## Brownski

Ripitz said:


> Upstate may also be wherever you see signs for night crawlers at the convenience stores. I worked with a woman from the hood who thought the signs were for malt liquor.


That’s pretty good but you’re falling into a common trap here- equating upstate with rural. Most upstaters live in depressing little rust belt cities whose best days were in the 60s.


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## tirolski

Brownski said:


> Most upstaters live in depressing little rust belt cities whose best days were in the 60s.


True dat but if yer outside the cities ya might not be not depressed.

We now got a Prez and governor who’er both Cuse grads and the new governor is an Upstater.

Let the good times roll.


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## tirolski

Eerie Canal is upstate for sure.
The Museum about it is in central upstate.
Ya can go the the Eerie Eats exhibit displays virtually here.




__





Exhibit


The Erie Eats exhibit highlights the many ways in which the histories of the Erie Canal and foodways have intersected over the last two centuries and will




eriecanalmuseum.org


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## MC2

Brownski said:


> . Most upstaters live in depressing little rust belt cities whose best days were in the 60s.


Why do you hate America? ?

The food & beer & wine & free concerts & technology & recreational opportunities & events are way better than they were in the 60s. Way more food options, too (Vietnamese, Indian, Thai, etc.). Buffalo & Rochester have cool areas, good minor league baseball, tree-lined suburbs, and high qualities of life (and those high-qualities of life are available to more people than they were in the 50s & 60s).

Pining for days of yore is some get-off-my-lawn shit.


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## Brownski

Ha! Good points. I wasn’t pining for days of yore- just for a more vibrant economy. The air and water is much better quality then it was back then also. And I’m totally willing to acknowledge that things are getting better here and there. The downtown of Beacon is way less depressing than it was twenty years ago


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## Ripitz

Brownski said:


> The air and water is much better quality then it was back then also.


Weed too


Brownski said:


> The downtown of Beacon is way less depressing than it was twenty years ago


A pint of beer was $3.75, now it’s $13.75


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## Brownski

Ripitz said:


> Weed too
> 
> A pint of beer was $3.75, now it’s $13.75


I’ll have to take your word on the weed quality. I don’t smoke. As far as the price of a pint, I feel ya. At least you’re probably getting a pretty good beer for $13.75


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## Ripitz

Brownski said:


> I’ll have to take your word on the weed quality. I don’t smoke


Do you like gummy bears?


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## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> Do you like gummy bears?


?‍♂️


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## tirolski

Ripitz said:


> A pint of beer was $3.75, now it’s $13.75


Pints of Americas oldest brewery beer, Yuengling are $3 at the golf course now with tip.


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## jasonwx

tirolski said:


> Pints of Americas oldest brewery beer, Yuengling are $3 at the golf course now with tip.


And you can still find 1$ pbr’s
Arguably one of the finest brews in America


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## tirolski

Brownski said:


> The air and water is much better quality then it was back then also.


Finger lakes got algae bloom issues when they get warm now more than they used to have. Air is better.


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## tirolski

jasonwx said:


> And you can still find 1$ pbr’s
> Arguably one of the finest brews in America


Got a PBR tall boy (24oz.) for $1.89 at the store, sippin on her now.


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## x10003q

jasonwx said:


> And you can still find 1$ pbr’s
> Arguably one of the finest brews in America


I always had a soft spot for PBR. Maybe it was all those years riding in the back seat of my parents car as a kid on the Garden State Parkway thru Newark and seeing the giant PBR bottle on top of the PBR Brewery.








						Newark, NJ - Beer Bottle Water Tower (Gone)
					

Visit reports, news, maps, directions and info on Beer Bottle Water Tower in Newark, New Jersey.



					www.roadsideamerica.com


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## tirolski

Senior member-guest at the golf course was started by a fellow who’s son took it over and we used to have to do a tallboy PBR before play commenced the first day. There’s a long waiting list to get into the tournament.


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## gorgonzola

x10003q said:


> I always had a soft spot for PBR. Maybe it was all those years riding in the back seat of my parents car as a kid on the Garden State Parkway thru Newark and seeing the giant PBR bottle on top of the PBR Brewery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newark, NJ - Beer Bottle Water Tower (Gone)
> 
> 
> Visit reports, news, maps, directions and info on Beer Bottle Water Tower in Newark, New Jersey.
> 
> 
> 
> www.roadsideamerica.com


For me Newark was always defined by the Anhueser-Busch / Bud Eagle sign at the brewery


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## Harvey

jasonwx said:


> And you can still find 1$ pbr’s
> Arguably one of the finest brews in America


I want to hear the argument.


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## x10003q

gorgonzola said:


> For me Newark was always defined by the Anhueser-Busch / Bud Eagle sign at the brewery


That's a cool sign/brewery, but it is only visible when you are near Newark Airport. That giant PBR bottle was a landmark going to and from the shore and other points south in NJ.


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## jasonwx

Harvey said:


> I want to hear the argument.


I want my beer to be refreshing and taste like beer.. If i want something that has notes of grapefruit i will drink a Fresca etc.. Water hops and barley..and maybe a chemical stabilizer or two
Fruit is for Sangria or Soda..


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## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> Fruit is for Sangria or Soda.


And Old Fashions


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## Brownski

Harvey said:


> I want to hear the argument.


Correct answer





we could also accept Genny Cream ale


----------



## Peter Minde

Brownski said:


> Correct answer
> 
> View attachment 10034
> 
> we could also accept Genny Cream ale


My grandfather in Warrensburg was a Utica Club guy.


----------



## x10003q

Matt's was another favorite


----------



## Harvey

x10003q said:


> Matt's was another favorite


That's what we drank in college. It's their PREMIUM beer!

$2 pitchers.


----------



## Cork

Harvey said:


> That's what we drank in college. It's their PREMIUM beer!
> 
> $2 pitchers.


Matt's Beer Balls!


----------



## Harvey

Cork said:


> Matt's Beer Balls!


A staple.


----------



## Tjf1967

Cork said:


> Matt's Beer Balls!


17 dollars. Cut a hole in the top. Perfect for 5 people. Beer ball. Hackey sack 10 dollar bag 5 guys and that was a party. 
Miller was the premium beer. Genny when you were on a budget.


----------



## gorgonzola

x10003q said:


> That's a cool sign/brewery, but it is only visible when you are near Newark Airport. That giant PBR bottle was a landmark going to and from the shore and other points south in NJ.


boy I don't remember that, the only landmark I recall was the big tile mural at Paramus (?)


----------



## Campgottagopee

Cork said:


> Matt's Beer Balls!


My people!!!!
In college we'd drink the beer ball then cut a hole big enough to put your head thru. Light a joint, put said beer ball over your head, tuck a towel around the opening and your neck, smoke said joint. Wow!! 
The good old days....lol


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tjf1967 said:


> Genny when you were on a budget.


Or if you went to college near Rochester


----------



## gorgonzola

Cork said:


> Matt's Beer Balls!


we called 'em Utica balls - many a fine day skipping school and paddling down Winding River with a Utica ball tethered to the canoe!


----------



## x10003q

gorgonzola said:


> boy I don't remember that, the only landmark I recall was the big tile mural at Paramus (?)


Alexander's - NE corner of Rt 4/ Rt 17.








Paramus Alexander’s mural comes out of storage (in pieces) for new exhibit


Stefan Knapp's huge expressionistic mural has mostly been sitting in storage since the Paramus Alexander's department store closed in the 1990s.




www.nj.com


----------



## tirolski

Cork said:


> Matt's Beer Balls!


More of it in the upstate here.








Remembering the beerball, once the life of every party


The plastic sphere of draft beer was introduced to the world by F.X. Matt Brewing in Utica.




www.newyorkupstate.com


----------



## G.ski

Campgottagopee said:


> My people!!!!
> In college we'd drink the beer ball then cut a hole big enough to put your head thru. Light a joint, put said beer ball over your head, tuck a towel around the opening and your neck, smoke said joint. Wow!!
> The good old days....lol


"Space helmet on Captain Video!"

For fans of "The Honeymooners".


----------



## gorgonzola

Brownski said:


> Genny Cream ale


worst. farts. ever.

Killians Irish Red is a close second


----------



## x10003q

gorgonzola said:


> worst. farts. ever.
> 
> Killians Irish Red is a close second


Genee Screamers - we stopped buying it


----------



## wonderpony

What about roadside chicken BBQ? Do those exist downstate?


----------



## Brownski

Well they do have bbq chicken places and they’re generally street accessible … what does “roadside” indicate in this context?


----------



## wonderpony

Where some local organization cooks up a bunch of chicken halves in Cornell BBQ sauce. They usually come with salt potatoes, cole slaw or bad macaroni salad and perhaps a roll. The chicken pretty much falls apart because it has been marinated for a day or so and slow cooked. You would know one if you drove by it. You car smells amazing because it is filled with BBQ smell. 

I guess If I have to explain it, the answer is no. 

Chicken BBQ FB page! The next one has pulled pork, too! It's on my calendar.  More information about chicken BBQ.

Now, I must go marinate my chicken.


----------



## tirolski

wonderpony said:


> Where some local organization cooks up a bunch of chicken halves in Cornell BBQ sauce. They usually come with salt potatoes, cole slaw or bad macaroni salad and perhaps a roll. The chicken pretty much falls apart because it has been marinated for a day or so and slow cooked. You would know one if you drove by it. You car smells amazing because it is filled with BBQ smell.
> 
> I guess If I have to explain it, the answer is no.
> 
> Chicken BBQ FB page! The next one has pulled pork, too! It's on my calendar.  More information about chicken BBQ.
> 
> Now, I must go marinate my chicken.


Yup.
Cornell BBQ sauce is one of humanity's great inventions.


----------



## jasonwx

tirolski said:


> Yup.
> Cornell BBQ sauce is one of humanity's great inventions.


My daughter never mentioned the bbq chicken
I pulled up the recipe
Gonna give a go


----------



## Brownski

I get what you mean now; sounds pretty upstate to me.


----------



## Campgottagopee

I'm here to say Cornell BBQ chicken is the best.


----------



## wonderpony




----------



## tirolski

Nice, Pony. 
Ate 2 ears tonight, as well as a fresh from my garden tomato sammich.


----------



## Green light

Salted butter?..


----------



## wonderpony

Green light said:


> Salted butter?..


Always.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> Always.


Exactly


----------



## Warp daddy

We got some Xtra sweet corn last week . Had never heard of that prior and man was that awesome ! Just had one big ear and that was all i needed to be satisfied.


----------



## tirolski

Since we’re talkin corn in upstate, here’s a blurb bout what the Tyrol Club cooks in the winter out of corn with sides of chicken.
The Polenta dinner's energy content is high & the club's dinners are held in colder weather.
A nap is recommended afterwards.





						Polenta Dinner: How a grand Tyrolean tradition lives on in  Solvay (video)
					

Polenta is simple cornmeal, water and salt, but it's the staple of Italy's northern provinces.




					www.syracuse.com


----------



## Brownski

Corn is upstate AF


----------



## Warp daddy

wonderpony said:


> Always.


Yeah baby !!


----------



## MarzNC

Just drove from Binghamton to Albany via Ithaca. Took US20 instead of the Turnpike. Lots of roadside stands with corn.

Also saw signs for "Midstate." I remember hearing about the Finger Lakes region, but never Midstate when I was growing up in NYC. Who uses that term?


----------



## Brownski

I’ve never heard it used as a region. Maybe as in “Binghamton is about mid state..”


----------



## MarzNC

Well, there is a Midstate Miata Club and a Mid Sate Youth Soccer League. Who knew?

I think I saw the signs on US20, which I was on from I-81 Exit 15. But not really sure.


----------



## Warp daddy

When I was in High School there was A MidState Athletic Conference for hs in CNY And the NJCAA also had one for two year colleges


----------



## x10003q

Warp daddy said:


> When I was in High School there was A MidState Athletic Conference for hs in CNY And the NJCAA also had one for two year colleges


There was a high school athletic conference before electricity?


----------



## snoloco

Other than ski lifts, my biggest interest is probably trains. That being said, here's how I define upstate/downstate. Downstate is within MTA territory, and upstate is outside of MTA territory.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> Just drove from Binghamton to Albany via Ithaca. Took US20 instead of the Turnpike. Lots of roadside stands with corn.
> 
> Also saw signs for "Midstate." I remember hearing about the Finger Lakes region, but never Midstate when I was growing up in NYC. Who uses that term?


Big M Midstate grocery stores were ubiquitous in the upstate for a bit. 
Some may still be around but they change hands over time.


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> There was a high school athletic conference before electricity?


Oh snap!


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> Other than ski lifts, my biggest interest is probably trains. That being said, here's how I define upstate/downstate. Downstate is within MTA territory, and upstate is outside of MTA territory.


This is a rule I have seen proposed before. I think Benny suggested it in the TGR thread. My objection is that you can get to Port Jervis and Poughkeepsie on Metro North and neither of them seem very downstate to me.


----------



## snoloco

Port Jervis and Poughkeepsie might not be considered downstate relative to Long Island, but are downstate when compared to Rouses Point or Niagara Falls, the furthest north and west train stations in New York.


----------



## Campgottagopee

I like the sweet corn and salted butter thing. 
What about salt potatoes? Where's that line? Binghamton?


----------



## tirolski

Don’t know if this answers any definitive questions about upstate, but politicians could change their lines for the upstate. 









Upstate New York could lose representation after redistricting


New York City grew faster than upstate.




spectrumlocalnews.com





We still got Joe and the new governor coming in as Cuse alums.


----------



## Brownski

Yeah, that article is about upstate losing representation at the federal level. It doesn’t help define the boundaries but it was an interesting read. Thanks for posting it. For the record, upstate never had any clout anyway. If the state had a similar system to the feds- like maybe each county got one senator- they might have a voice. Trying to figure that out would surely get too political immediately


----------



## x10003q

Brownski said:


> Yeah, that article is about upstate losing representation at the federal level. It doesn’t help define the boundaries but it was an interesting read. Thanks for posting it. For the record, upstate never had any clout anyway. If the state had a similar system to the feds- like maybe each county got one senator- they might have a voice. Trying to figure that out would surely get too political immediately


That gives too much legislative power to a small number of citizens. We see the flaws in the US Senate. Wyoming has a population of about 590k and Bergen County in NJ has a population of about 930k (NJ has a population of 9.4 million). Where are my 2 Bergen County Senators?


----------



## Brownski

Yeah I figured it’d be too political. Fuck upstate I guess


----------



## tirolski

I just googled “upstate” & news and that’s what came up.
Maybe the all-go-rythms want to push the politics.
Thought bout it but still put it up cause it’s upstate shit and could possibly fit in with the definitive question.


----------



## Warp daddy

Hey any you guys want a new Cong. Rep ? Be happy to donate mine E Lies Stefanik ?, jus sayin'


----------



## Campgottagopee

Hotdogs are the answer









The battle of Upstate New York hot dogs: Which regional variety is the best?


We put hot dogs from Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and the North Country to the test.




www.newyorkupstate.com


----------



## gorgonzola

Campgottagopee said:


> Hotdogs are the answer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The battle of Upstate New York hot dogs: Which regional variety is the best?
> 
> 
> We put hot dogs from Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and the North Country to the test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newyorkupstate.com


michigans = upstate


----------



## x10003q

Brownski said:


> Yeah I figured it’d be too political. Fuck upstate I guess


You are right. Upstate would be fucked without downstate. 70% of NYS income tax comes from Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk and NYC. Albany has constantly uses the MTA money as a piggy bank. NYS would have to make some drastic budget cuts if the NYC metro area counties became a state.


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> You are right. Upstate would be fucked without downstate. 70% of NYS income tax comes from Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk and NYC. Albany has constantly uses the MTA money as a piggy bank. NYS would have to make some drastic budget cuts if the NYC metro area counties became a state.


We're a hardy bunch. That said I love NYC. One of the best weekends of my life was spent there.
NYS is awesome because of how diverse it is, imo.


----------



## Ripitz




----------



## Harvey

^^So Saugerties. Upstate. I agree.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Saugerties is definitely Upstate, but VanWyck Lake Road is in Fishkill, and south of I84. Still Upstate.

mm


----------



## Ripitz

Maybe everything north of 84


----------



## Harvey

Great shot! ^^If there was a way to make an image the "featured image" of the thread...



Milo Maltbie said:


> Saugerties is definitely Upstate, but VanWyck Lake Road is in Fishkill, and south of I84. Still Upstate.
> 
> mm



I googled them looked like HQ was in Tivoli, so I went with Saugerties.


----------



## Petronio

OK, so I grew up in Queens (Howard Beach), and now I live in Poughkeepsie, so I think I have a good understanding. "Upstate" is like "young" and "old" in that it is relative. When you are 20, anyone under 16 is "young" and anyone over 30 is "old". When you are in your 50s, "young" is anyone under 40 (or 45?). So, when I was a Scout and we went camping, we went "upstate" to Sanita Hills in southern Dutchess, and TMR in Sullivan County. Living in Po-town, I drive "down to the City" but "upstate to the Adirondacks". I certainly don't think of myself living upstate, but probably most people south of Tarrytown would say I do.


----------



## tirolski

Petronio said:


> I certainly don't think of myself living upstate, but probably most people south of Tarrytown would say I do.


Did a couple years in Ossining (not the prison) and it ain’t upstate.


----------



## Brownski

I have always thought of Poughkeepsie as upstate, even when I lived in Albany


----------



## tirolski

Any peeps been to this upstater’s place?
and/or ate any of his smoked products?








One man’s solitary life of trapping, smoking and selling eels on the Delaware River


Ray Turner, 73, continues to run the Delaware Delicacies Smoke Shop in Hancock and is contemplating retirement.




www.newyorkupstate.com


----------



## tirolski

If they’ve done did a photo essay of a town listed in here then it must be in The Up State.


https://www.newyorkupstate.com/search/?q=a+day+in+photo+essay


----------



## Milo Maltbie

tirolski said:


> If they’ve done did a photo essay of a town listed in here then it must be in The Up State.
> 
> 
> https://www.newyorkupstate.com/search/?q=a+day+in+photo+essay


Chatham is definitely Upstate. But I think I have the final definitive answer. If you open Waze on your phone, and it tells you there are less than 10,000 Wazers near you, you are Upstate.

mm


----------



## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> Chatham is definitely Upstate. But I think I have the final definitive answer. If you open Waze on your phone, and it tells you there are less than 10,000 Wazers near you, you are Upstate.
> 
> mm


What the hell is Waze and Wazers?
Must be livin a sheltered life.
If one don’t know one could be in the upstate as well.


----------



## Warp daddy

tirolski said:


> What the hell is Waze and Wazers?
> Must be livin a sheltered life.
> If one don’t know one could be in the upstate as well.


A navagational / driving app on your phone


----------



## tirolski

Warp daddy said:


> A navagational / driving app on your phone


Car has it.


----------



## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Car has it.


Waze is way better than any navigation system built into a car. Especially if driving far away from home where accidents and construction are likely to cause traffic backups. Waze users can report issues in real time. That means it's possible to tell if an accident happened 15 min ago or 2 hours ago if taking a detour is an option.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> Waze is way better than any navigation system built into a car. Especially if driving far away from home where accidents and construction are likely to cause traffic backups. Waze users can report issues in real time. That means it's possible to tell if an accident happened 15 min ago or 2 hours ago if taking a detour is an option.


Thanks, I’ll check it out but really don’t make many trips lately for some reason.
Prefer backroads to interstates.


----------



## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Thanks, I’ll check it out but really don’t make many trips lately for some reason.
> Prefer backroads to interstates.


The combination I use is a Garmin as an interactive map and Waze. When I drove from Ithaca to Albany a couple weeks ago I forced the Garmin to route via US20 from I-88 instead of following the suggestion of either GPS system to take the NY Thruway. When I have time, I'll wander around backroads. Helps a lot to have Waze, compared to having to constantly check a paper map. I finally stopped carrying a USA book map a couple years ago. Even when I ignore Waze, I know I'll eventually end up at my destination once it figures out what I'm actually doing.

Learned about Waze several years ago from my ski buddy who lives in Albuquerque. When he drives cross-country to NY to visit friends and family, or to pick me up in SLC, it can be handy to have some warning that Police have been spotted. Very useful on the highways in southern VA, where the State Police are always lurking.


----------



## Green light

Old upstaters still use CB radio for communicating on the road


----------



## MarzNC

Green light said:


> Old upstaters still use CB radio for communicating on the road


Makes sense to me.

I brought along my 1980's vintage CB when driving to Lake Placid in the winter just in case of emergency while my daughter was at North Country School 2013-16. Past Queensbury I assume there won't be much cell signal along the Northway.


----------



## tirolski

Green light said:


> Old upstaters still use CB radio for communicating on the road


Attaboy. That’s a big ten four..


----------



## Harvey

Zelda is ready


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> View attachment 10451
> Zelda is ready


Rt on!


----------



## tirolski

It seems if yer anywhere in an area > or = to 18 in the first map or live anywhere in the other two maps yer in the upstate, allegedly.








State commission releases redistricting proposals: Both maps dismantle 23rd District | Fingerlakes1.com


On Wednesday the Independent Redistricting Commission released a pair of maps outlining two version of Congressional districts. Democrats and Republicans could not agree on a single map, so both released their own versions. In both scenarios representation in the Finger Lakes and Central New...




www.fingerlakes1.com


----------



## tirolski

The Upstate’s Fort Ontario has history.


----------



## tirolski

The Upstate's Phish's Dinner and a Movie. 
Plattsburg 1996.


----------



## tirolski

CNY News article on The Upstate’s great skiing.
Two of eleven are in CNY ifn ya count Greek to be in CNY.








"The Mountains Are Calling" You to These 11 Great Upstate NY Ski


Upstate New York is a winter wonderland for snow skiers. We have many of the finest ski resorts in the East. Here is a list of 11 skiing destinations which range from the Catskills to the Adirondacks and to the Finger lakes.




cnynews.com


----------



## tirolski

There’s no question Buffalo continues to demonstrate qualifications to support it’s place in The Upstate.








Bills’ Spencer Brown has world’s most expensive Bud Light; how Bills Mafia is helping to offset NFL fine


Brown's celebration drew a fine from the NFL.




www.newyorkupstate.com


----------



## Harvey

More than 50" is upstate.


----------



## tirolski

Seneca lake is in The Upstate.
We need better resolution if we’re measuring defining the lines by annual snowfall.


----------



## raisingarizona




----------



## tirolski

Somebody made a drone shots movie in The Up State.
No blue tarps were observed.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I used to work at an agency that regulated water companies. The group that was responsible for Lawn Guyland companies was known as the WAWddah Division and the Upstate group was the WhattERR Division. Maybe that's the definitive answer.

mm


----------



## tirolski

Andrew plays in the Southeast Conference in The Up State.


----------



## tirolski

An Up State city documentary is coming to town.


----------



## Brownski

sig said:


> first of all you are from jersey(any exit). we will address that in another post. haters will hate.


I found this comment from the other thread interesting. There is a lot of subtext here but rather then deconstructing it, I’d like to jump forward to the membership issue. Harvey clearly wants to be an upstater very badly. Obviously we can’t just accept any yahoo who buys a vacation home but I think we should be open to new members of our club. Does Harv have to wait until he moves up full time? Is that enough? Should we form a committee to ponder this? A general vote?


----------



## tirolski

The UpState has a state of mind too.
Kinda like one never graduates from Ole Miss.

_“The University is respected, but Ole Miss is loved... 
the University gives a diploma and regretfully terminates tenure, but one never graduates from Ole Miss.”





Top Stories of 2017: The Story Behind Ole Miss' Most Beloved Poem - HottyToddy


The man who penned “The Heart of Ole Miss,” the beloved and oft-quoted poem about the University of Mississippi, initially thought so little of it, he tossed it in the wastebasket after reading it in public. Frank E. Everett, Jr., an Indianola native who earned his bachelor’s degree from Ole...




www.hottytoddy.com




_


----------



## Warp daddy

Brownski said:


> I found this comment from the other thread interesting. There is a lot of subtext here but rather then deconstructing it, I’d like to jump forward to the membership issue. Harvey clearly wants to be an upstater very badly. Obviously we can’t just accept any yahoo who buys a vacation home but I think we should be open to new members of our club. Does Harv have to wait until he moves up full time? Is that enough? Should we form a committee to ponder this? A general vote?


Seriously ?? this is an issue ? WGARA : good peeps are good peeps and always welcome .


----------



## tirolski

Wife gets robbed at gunpoint in the big mall parking lot outside the Cheesecake Factory.
Lose the next day in OT to the Tar Heels in North Carolina with yer hoop boys.
Still remain positive.
Tis an UpState of mind.








“Let’s help this kid’: Jim Boeheim provides update after robbery


(WSYR-TV) — News of Juli Boeheim getting robbed at gunpoint Tuesday at Destiny USA sent shockwaves through the city of Syracuse and Central New York. There has been violence at the mall recen…




www.localsyr.com


----------



## tirolski

Southern UpState parks expand.








Governor Hochul Announces Nearly 1,200 Acres Added to Three State Parks in the Hudson Highlands


Governor Hochul announced the addition of nearly 1,200 acres to three state parks in the Hudson Valley, expanding New York State's protection of open space and ensuring the conservation of significant blocks of contiguous forest land.




www.governor.ny.gov


----------



## tirolski

Do ya feel lucky in The UpState on Saint Patrick’s Day?🍀
The Oneida’s are hosting a World Series of Poker main event.♠️♣️♥️♦️
Ya gotta go to know.




__





Turning Stone Resort Casino


The World Series of Poker scheduled a stop at Turning Stone Resort Casino. Read up on the latest WSOP circuit results and the next WSOP schedule at Turning Stone.




www.turningstone.com


----------



## tirolski

Couple of The UpState’s bros discuss folks who have lived up here for awhile in a new podcast.








Iroquois History and Legends: 64 The Iroquois in the Civil War | Part 3 | The Oneida Nation


In our final episode in our Haudenosaunee in the Civil War series we take a look at how other individuals and communities made contributions to the war effort. We will cover Dr. Peter Wilson (Cayuga), the U.S. - Dakota War of 1862 and the Oneida Nation of Green Bay, WI Notes: Federal Publishing...



iroquois.libsyn.com


----------



## Brownski

That’s an interesting podcast- the episodes are short and pithy. I’m in.
Thanks dude


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> That’s an interesting podcast- the episodes are short and pithy. I’m in.
> Thanks dude


Lots of interesting tales the bros tell bout The UpSate history they don’t teach a whole lot in skools.
Fascinating too.
They used to give out free mugs. Maybe still.


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> That’s an interesting podcast- the episodes are short and pithy. I’m in.
> Thanks dude


The boys from Canandaigua recently made a Utube in Batavia about Ely Parker.


----------



## freeheeln

The further upstate you live the further you think upstate is.


----------



## Harvey

freeheeln said:


> The further upstate you live the further you think upstate is.


I never imagined someone would post actual facts in this thread.


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> I never imagined someone would post actual facts in this thread.


Listen, its not definitive. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. Mistaking upstate the direction for upstate the region is a common slip up. And that doesn't even begin to describe upstate the culture. This came up at my nephew's wedding and my BIL from Gloversville claimed upstate begins at I90. No worries, though. I straightened that shit right out.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> upstate begins at I90


He's correct


----------



## Warp daddy

Upstate huh : yeah , sure thing 😈

Easily determined by accent : upstate no broad A's and all Hard R's.
Easily determined by general lack of : subways or commuter trains .
Easily detrmined by ambiance : Its where the good shit is ,ya know clean lakes , rivers , mountains , islands , trails, ski hills and clean air and water 😎


----------



## Ripitz

Warp daddy said:


> Its where


people wave and say hello.


----------



## Warp daddy

And neighbors know each other and many actually like each other and help one another ,and peeps sit out on their front porches or back decks and interact


----------



## tirolski

Warp daddy said:


> Easily detrmined by ambiance : Its where the good shit is ,ya know clean lakes , rivers , mountains , islands , trails, ski hills and clean air and water 😎


Good golfing too.
Here’s another map, somewhat similar to some of the others.








Packages


Go Golfing at the Best Courses in Upstate NY.




www.discoverupstateny.com


----------



## Warp daddy

tirolski said:


> Good golfing too.
> Here’s another map, somewhat similar to some of the others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Packages
> 
> 
> Go Golfing at the Best Courses in Upstate NY.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.discoverupstateny.com


Yep THAT oo, Tski 😉......Getting ready to head out soon ⛳️


----------



## sig

Warp daddy said:


> Yep THAT oo, Tski 😉......Getting ready to head out soon ⛳️


me too. on floor stretching out this old back. have fun


----------



## Brownski

Probably more upstaters live in rust belt dead economy former factory towns than in bucolic pristine country villages but I get the point. There are some nice spots up there


----------



## x10003q

Warp daddy said:


> And neighbors know each other and many actually like each other and help one another ,and peeps sit out on their front porches or back decks and interact


Now, now - this happens in my NNJ neighborhood. This is not unique to 'upstate'.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Warp daddy said:


> And neighbors know each other and many actually like each other and help one another ,and peeps sit out on their front porches or back decks and interact


WTF? Who has a front porch anymore?
Upstate is where people want to live in giant houses on 5 acre lots and never go out to socialize because DWI.
I think you are projecting some typical Upstate misanthropy onto downstaters.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Brownski said:


> Probably more upstaters live in rust belt dead economy former factory towns than in bucolic pristine country villages but I get the point. There are some nice spots up there


QFT
All those dead economy towns are among the least friendly places anywhere. Everyone is bitter about newcomers "stealing our jobs." 

mm


----------



## Peter Minde

Milo Maltbie said:


> WTF? Who has a front porch anymore?
> Upstate is where people want to live in giant houses on 5 acre lots and never go out to socialize because DWI.
> I think you are projecting some typical Upstate misanthropy onto downstaters.
> 
> mm


I recently read an article about gentrification in the countryside, specific to the Catskills. City folks looking to escape the pandemic buying up rural properties. If I can find that particular link, I'll share it.

When I move upstate, it won't be to a giant house because that's not my tax bracket. However I wouldn't mind a little acreage so I can crank up the guitar and not get neighbors complaining.


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## Milo Maltbie

Peter Minde said:


> When I move upstate, it won't be to a giant house because that's not my tax bracket. However I wouldn't mind a little acreage so I can crank up the guitar and not get neighbors complaining.


You're gonna fit right in. Avoiding neighbors is a defining characteristic of Upstate culture. Also, every Upstate house is giant by City standards.

mm


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## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> You're gonna fit right in. Avoiding neighbors is a defining characteristic of Upstate culture. Also, every Upstate house is giant by City standards.
> 
> mm


I don't see this
Then again I live in CNY so maybe it's different
My family is def in upstate. None have big houses and they're all really tight with their neighbors.


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## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> Everyone is bitter about newcomers "stealing our jobs."
> 
> mm


Not many folks saying that anymore. 
Dang help wanteds all over the place.


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## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> I don't see this
> Then again I live in CNY so maybe it's different
> My family is def in upstate. None have big houses and they're all really tight with their neighbors.


Yup.
A couple days ago was putting some blue fertilizer on the berry bushes and azaleas via a 5 gal bucket to mix and a smaller bucket to dump on the base of the bushes.
Neighbor came over later with a brand new hose he bought because he felt sorry for me doing the bucket brigade thingy🍺.
We had plenty of hose.


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## Warp daddy

Milo Maltbie said:


> WTF? Who has a front porch anymore?
> Upstate is where people want to live in giant houses on 5 acre lots and never go out to socialize because DWI.
> I think you are projecting some typical Upstate misanthropy onto downstaters.
> 
> mm


Many front porches here in ST Lawrence County , many restored old Victorian Painted Ladies and vintage Colonial Homes , Four Squares especially in our college towns , and there are still village greens too 😎. It aint all rural just sayin'


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## Warp daddy

tirolski said:


> Not many folks saying that anymore.
> Dang help wanteds all over the place.


Truth Tski !

MOreover , the College towns here in St .Lawrence County 
are very stable economically . Many towns here also have additional Public and Quasi public employment which together with education creates a multiplier effect in small business .

MFG moved out LONG ago and was only focused in 3 towns in our county..

Ergo the Public sector and the quasi publics are THE economic engine and have been for several decades . Schools , colleges , private schools , hospitals , prisons , psch centers , various county and local govts and their various service depts , State and federal agencies and various private quasi publics in longterm care industry are some of the discreet elements in that Economic Engine

The county: the fifth largest geographically east of the Mississippi has ONLY 106,000 population so these cited economic engines are the major drivers in the region coupled with tourism and student spending in the region..

industrial parks exist in the 4 major population ceneters here , most were incubated by the technology and business initiatives of the 4 colleges , others are US distribution/ small assembly centers for Canadian enterprises


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## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> I don't see this
> Then again I live in CNY so maybe it's different
> My family is def in upstate. None have big houses and they're all really tight with their neighbors.


Nor do i , frankly quite the opposite . 

True story : my son a medical professional in NYC born and raised in NNY tells the story when he first moved to Manhattan he would say HI to peeps while walking about and they would give him the " Side eye " 😂😂.. Here most people are friendly , it really struck me when i moved here out of college , had never encounted that before .


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## tirolski

Warp daddy said:


> Truth Tski !
> 
> MOreover , the College towns here in St .Lawrence County
> are very stable economically . Many towns here also have additional Public and Quasi public employment which together with education creates a multiplier effect in small business .
> 
> MFG moved out LONG ago and was only focused in 3 towns in our county..
> 
> Ergo the Public sector and the quasi publics are THE economic engine and have been for several decades . Schools , colleges , private schools , hospitals , prisons , psch centers , various county and local govts and their various service depts , State and federal agencies and various private quasi publics in longterm care industry are some of the discreet elements in that Economic Engine
> 
> The county: the fifth largest geographically east of the Mississippi has ONLY 106,000 population so these cited economic engines are the major drivers in the region coupled with tourism and student spending in the region..
> 
> industrial parks exist in the 4 major population ceneters here , most were incubated by the technology and business initiatives of the 4 colleges , others are US distribution/ small assembly centers for Canadian enterprises


Do they still have the Kraft cheese plant in Canton?
A roommate's Dad worked there.
The Upstate has good cheese.


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## Milo Maltbie

The dead end Upstate economy is real thing. I traveled all over Upstate for work for 45 years, and the general deterioration of the whole place in that time (with some exceptions like Saratoga Springs) is depressing.
OTOH I was in Brooklyn last week, and I was amazed at how much better it was than even last year. Every time I go to the City since about 1990 it's better than the last time. 
The difference in wealth between Upstate and Downstate is incredible.

mm


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## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> The difference in wealth between Upstate and Downstate is incredible.


Still, I'd take upstate ALL.DAMN.DAY.


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## Brownski

Milo Maltbie said:


> Every time I go to the City since about 1990 it's better than the last time


Brooklyn is one thing. The Bronx doesn’t seem to ever change


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## Milo Maltbie

Brownski said:


> Brooklyn is one thing. The Bronx doesn’t seem to ever change


If you never get off the highway or go anywhere other than Yankee Stadium, that's true. The South Bronx has too many projects and small apartments to gentrify, but there are nice sections even in Bronx. When my grandmother died in 1977 we abandoned her house, but it's safe to walk around that neighborhood again. 

mm


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## Brownski

But aren’t the nice Bronx neighborhoods the ones that have been nice all along? I have a customer south of Fordham, another one a little south of the stadium and one just off of Boston Post Rd near the Westchester border and I occasionally go back to Riverdale where I used to live. It all looks the same as ever to me.


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## Warp daddy

tirolski said:


> Do they still have the Kraft cheese plant in Canton?
> A roommate's Dad worked there.
> The Upstate has good cheese.


No it closed i think around 2004 when Kraft closed a number of facilities


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## Milo Maltbie

Brownski said:


> But aren’t the nice Bronx neighborhoods the ones that have been nice all along?


There’s some truth to that, but the house my uncle signed over to a squatter for nothing in 1977 is worth almost $1 million now according to Zillow. 

mm


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## Brownski

Shit


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## Campgottagopee

The origins of Central New York community names


SYRACUSE, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — Have you ever wondered why some places are named what they are in Central New York? Maybe you finished watching this video where people (hilariously) failed to pron…




www.localsyr.com


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## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> The origins of Central New York community names
> 
> 
> SYRACUSE, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — Have you ever wondered why some places are named what they are in Central New York? Maybe you finished watching this video where people (hilariously) failed to pron…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.localsyr.com


Don’t forget Virgil Camp.


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## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> Still, I'd take upstate ALL.DAMN.DAY.


Theres definitely different ways to measure "wealth".


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## tirolski

Harvey said:


> I never imagined someone would post actual facts in this thread.


Gotta have vehicles officially inspected in The Upstate.








Police: Driver tried to get away with this 'very poor' inspection sticker


Fulton County Sheriff's Office posted a photo of "very poor attempt to fake an inspection...




www.timesunion.com


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## tirolski

Dang Upstate is trying to blow some experimental weaponry into Big Church Mountain.
But running those smelly snowmobiles in the trees are a problem. WTF.

_Near a former Atlas F nuclear missile silo in Lewis, a national security consulting firm wants to fire military cannons into a pile of sand and use privately owned Big Church Mountain as a backstop._









Military cannon test range proposed in Lewis


A national security consulting firm wants to fire military cannons and use an Essex County mountain on a property in Lewis as a backstop.




www.adirondackexplorer.org


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## jimmypete

Brownski said:


> First of all, this thread belongs right here. Let’s not get all moderator’y about it. Now I have spent (wasted) a lot of time pondering this. I’ve listened to a lot of different points of view and as far as I can tell, the line between upstate and downstate goes from the western border of Rockland County, along the eastern/southern edge of Harriman/Bear Mountain Parks, across the Bear Mountain Mountain Bridge, south of Camp Smith, northern border of Peekskill to the Taconic and then along Route 6 until it bears north and more or less east from there to the CT border. Or thereabouts.


When I was a kid in the sixties upstate was anyplace North of Yonkers


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## tirolski

An Upstate boy makes good as Commissioner of the SEC.
That’s South East Conference sports fans, not the thingy 🍺 that rools over stock trades in The Big Apple.



An Inside Look at the Most Powerful Person in College Sports | Sports Illustrated



_"Yankee accent aside, he’s got more in common with rank-and-file SEC fans than anyone might have guessed.

The son of a welder spent some of his formative years living in a mobile home in upstate New York near Skaneateles Lake (“Long Lake” in one of the local Iroquois languages). One summer, the Sankey family lived in a garage that lacked air conditioning. The Finger Lakes region outside Syracuse is a resort area for many affluent New Yorkers, but the everyday reality of living there was nothing glamorous for Sankey.

He was the first member of his family to go to college. His education meandered through an obscure NAIA school in Texas, a New York junior college, SUNY Cortland (where he earned an undergraduate degree in education) and Syracuse (master’s degree in education). He was a backup catcher at LeTourneau in Longview, Texas, then played basketball at Cayuga Community College."_


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## tirolski

Brownski said:


> Correct answer
> 
> View attachment 10034
> 
> we could also accept Genny Cream ale


@Brownski, They got a new outdoor Biergarten going for ya.








Utica’s Matt/Saranac brewery unveils new outdoor Biergarten


The outdoor space will be open through late fall.




www.syracuse.com


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## Brownski

tirolski said:


> @Brownski, They got a new outdoor Biergarten going for ya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Utica’s Matt/Saranac brewery unveils new outdoor Biergarten
> 
> 
> The outdoor space will be open through late fall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.syracuse.com


Ha. I tried to get Junior to go to college in Utica. Didn’t work out.


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## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> Ha. I tried to get Junior to go to college in Utica. Didn’t work out.


Rough town
They invented bath salts snorting


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## tirolski

The ❤️ of The Upstate’s gonna make a lot of chips for folks.








Micron picks Syracuse suburb for huge computer chip plant that would bring up to 9,000 jobs


Semiconductor giant would invest $100B to build a mega-complex here. "This is incredible and transformative news for Central New York," Schumer says.




www.syracuse.com


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## Warp daddy

tirolski said:


> The ❤️ of The Upstate’s gonna make a lot of chips for folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Micron picks Syracuse suburb for huge computer chip plant that would bring up to 9,000 jobs
> 
> 
> Semiconductor giant would invest $100B to build a mega-complex here. "This is incredible and transformative news for Central New York," Schumer says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.syracuse.com


Fantastic !!


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## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> The ❤️ of The Upstate’s gonna make a lot of chips for folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Micron picks Syracuse suburb for huge computer chip plant that would bring up to 9,000 jobs
> 
> 
> Semiconductor giant would invest $100B to build a mega-complex here. "This is incredible and transformative news for Central New York," Schumer says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.syracuse.com


This is great news.
I'll believe it when it happens.


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## trackbiker

Campgottagopee said:


> This is great news.
> I'll believe it when it happens.


Even if it does it will be years before it opens.
Shell announced that they were going to build the Shell Petrochemical Complex in western PA in 2012. My company sold them some production machinery in 2015. They are just starting those machines now. Who knows when they will actually go into production.


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## Campgottagopee

trackbiker said:


> Even if it does it will be years before it opens.
> Shell announced that they were going to build the Shell Petrochemical Complex in western PA in 2012. My company sold them some production machinery in 2015. They are just starting those machines now. Who knows when they will actually go into production.


Exactly. Politicians are involved too. Don't trust a word they say.


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## tirolski

trackbiker said:


> Even if it does it will be years before it opens.
> Shell announced that they were going to build the Shell Petrochemical Complex in western PA in 2012. My company sold them some production machinery in 2015. They are just starting those machines now. Who knows when they will actually go into production.


Drove by that monstrosity on the way to the Pittsburg airport last year.
Lots of fracked gas gonna make Shell piles of plastic for folks.

“There’s a great future in plastics."


----------



## Andy_ROC

Unlike the Photonics project sham with tiny start-up companies that was supposed to be in Rochester and was all the talk with politicians, this one is different. Micron is a huge, publicly traded international company with over $31B in sales and $57B market cap. 

This could be a game changer though I'll be retired by then.


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## tirolski

tirolski said:


> We still got Joe and the new governor coming in as Cuse alums.


The US president, the governor, the senators and the rest of the contingent came to The Center of The Upstate yesterday for the Big Billion Chip Plant announcement at the local community college.

The dome has 2 sellouts in a row for football for the first time in 35 years as The Irish come to play tomorrow at high noon.

Oh so much winning.


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## tirolski

There’s a historical marker in Massena for Baseball Hall of Famer Bid McPhee.
Played second base and didn’t use a glove until he had an injury on his left hand late in his career and then set a fielding record.
I wonder if he wore gloves much in his winters up there. 🤔




__





John Alexander 'Bid' McPhee Historical Marker


'Bid' McPhee was considered one of the greatest second basemen to play professional baseball in the 19th century. (A historical marker located in Massena in St. Lawrence County, New York.)



www.hmdb.org


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## Brownski

I’m gonna write a click bait blog post about upstate’s best fish fry places. Any nominations other than Ted’s and Doug’s? Is fish fry a thing in WNY?


----------



## Harvey

Can anyone really compete with Ted's?


----------



## Brownski

No of course not. I need a couple more to make it look like a race


----------



## MC2

Brownski said:


> I’m gonna write a click bait blog post about upstate’s best fish fry places. Any nominations other than Ted’s and Doug’s? Is fish fry a thing in WNY?


The one in Clifton Park I went to (Harbor House) is closing. I used to like the Fire Fish at the Lake Placid Pub & Brewery (Fish fry + buffalo wing sauce).

Shouldn’t this blog post run closer to Lent?


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## Brownski

MC2 said:


> Shouldn’t this blog post run closer to Lent?


Maybe. It’s good to have some ideas in the hopper, right? I’m not sure I’m on board with Buffalo fish fry - though fish tacos are good so why not?


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## wonderpony

Harvey said:


> Can anyone really compete with Ted's?


Doug's. There is only Doug's. Doug's is God, like Clapton.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> Doug's. There is only Doug's. Doug's is God, like Clapton.


Word


----------



## tirolski

wonderpony said:


> Doug's. There is only Doug's. Doug's is God, like Clapton.


Got a couple fish dinners to go Friday. 
Doug's pale ale made the wait a bit shorter while the goodness was frying.
There’s a whole lot of energy packed into those sammiches and fries.
The lady at the counter remembered my name and I hadn’t been in since late last winter.
Cheers.


----------



## westcoastben

tirolski said:


> Got a couple fish dinners to go Friday.
> Doug's pale ale made the wait a bit shorter while the goodness was frying.
> There’s a whole lot of energy packed into those sammiches and fries.
> The lady at the counter remembered my name and I hadn’t been in since late last winter.
> Cheers.


Where can one find this Doug’s?


----------



## tirolski

westcoastben said:


> Where can one find this Doug’s?


There’s 2 now Skinnyatlas & Cortland. They were up to more when they had one over in East Syracuse.
The grilled salmon looked good Friday but I stayed with the usual.
They also have a food truck thingy 🍺 that goes around.








Home - Dougs Fish Fry


Welcome to Doug's Fish Fry NY. We are a fish fry restaurant with locations in Cortland, Skaneateles, NYC Fair and a ToGo Trailer.




www.dougsfishfry.com


----------



## Brownski

Skinnyatlas = Skaneateles on the map


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> Skinnyatlas = Skaneateles on the map


Park around back.
They now have a couple dining rooms and a patch of grass with picnic tables for eating outside whenever it’s nice.
All their food is good.
I do Christmas shopping there, i.e. gift cards.


----------



## Campgottagopee

I get a fish sandwich from them once a week. Damn good.


----------



## westcoastben

Brownski said:


> Skinnyatlas = Skaneateles on the map


It’s got to be like people trying to pronounce “Puyallup” when they aren’t from Western WA. (Pronounced pew-oll-up, just in case you were wondering)


----------



## Harvey

I know this doesn't really belong here, but I'm not giving it it's own thread.

In my inbox today:



> Hi Harvey,
> 
> I’m following up to see if you had a chance to review the report? MyDatingAdviser.com has compiled a *ranking of the coziest small towns in America*.
> 
> *These New York towns are considered the coziest*: Ellicottville (ranked No. 4 coziest in the nation), Lake Placid (7th), Lake George (10th), Cooperstown (25th), Hudson (50th), Skaneateles (91st) and Rhinebeck (96th).
> 
> Their *study compared 170 of the coziest small towns* in the US across the following categories: weather, food, and activities. In addition, they looked at *data points like average winter temperature, snowfall*, cafes, bakeries, and craft shops.
> 
> You can find the coziest small towns in the US study here: https://mydatingadviser.com/best-small-towns-in-america/.
> 
> Best
> Amy


----------



## wonderpony

Well, heck. No wonder I am failing at dating. I don't frequent any of those places.

Remind me to check them out if I do get motivated to date. 🤪


----------

