# Whiteface Conditions



## NYSkiBlog

*cloudsplitter gondola*
*UPGRADE*
The Cloudsplitter Gondola is getting a face lift. The high speed 8-person Doppelmayr Gondola is getting 60 new beautiful cabins, new drives, and new drive motors. In addition, the communication system is getting an upgrade with new tower switches, communication and fiber lines.





*midstation lodge*
*UPDATES*
Construction of the new Midstation Lodge at Whiteface Mountain Ski Resort, replacing the structure that was destroyed by fire on November 30, 2019, commenced this spring.

The 10,000 sq. ft. lodge will be a mid-mountain respite for skiers and riders seeking a great resort experience. It will offer food and beverage service, have a large dining area, multiple seating spaces and full restroom amenities. An expansive viewing deck offering some of the most spectacular vistas of the High Peaks, at 2,100 ft. of elevation, will wrap around the building. The majority of skiers will be able to access the lodge from the mountain's upper trails.

Several of the new lodge's amenities will be ready for use during the next ski season in November of 2020. A second phase of construction will complete the midstation lodge project by October 2021.

Initial renderings of the new lodge show an architectural style reminiscent of an Adirondack great-lodge featuring long sloping roof lines, sweeping decks and a massive interior with vaulted ceilings. It will be accented by many natural elements such as Adirondack timber and custom stonework. Large insulated windows will allow for maximum light while framing picturesque views of the resort.













*bear den lift*
*UPDATE*
The Bunny Hutch Triple at Bear Den Mountain is being replaced. The new, as yet unamed, lift at Bear Den will be a quad lift system that uses conveyer loading making it easier for passenger loading. The lift is perfect for the beginner and families. It is located adjacent to the Bear Den Lodge and will be completed this fall.









*pumphouse 1 *
*UPGRADE*

The snowmaking system at Pumphouse 1, adjacent to the Clooudsplitter Gondola, is being improved. New pumps are being installed in the expanded Ausable River Pump House, and on-mountain pipe and gun modifications will improve the system's efficiency.





*bear den lodge*
*RECENT IMPROVEMENTS*
We've committed to growing our learn-to-ski facilities and programs with an expansion of the Bear Den Lodge, including the addition of a new bar and restaurant with a bird's eye view of the slopes for parents to relax and watch their kids on the hill. Bear Den also features two new conveyor lifts, including the Coyote Cruiser, perfect for beginner skiers who are new to the sport.





*main base lodge*
Last summer, we continued renovations and the installation of a new elevator to improve accessibility and traffic flow. Next time you're at the mountain be sure to check out the new and improved Guest Services desk located across from the J.Lohr Wine Bar & Café.




New Guest Services desk located across from the J.Lohr Wine Bar & Café

*SNOWMAKING, GROOMING & TRAIL UPGRADES*
Corduroy lovers rejoice—we have a new grooming tractor this past year! We've made major updates to main pump house, and have purchased 100 new snow guns, increasing our capacity by 25% for this upcoming season. We're also have widened several trails on Whiteface Mountain, including Broadway, Brookside, and Easy Street.





*VETERANS' MEMORIAL HIGHWAY*
Up at the Summit, we've been working hard at continuing our work renovating the interior of the Castle for our summer Memorial Highway visitors, and the elevator replacement project is complete.


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## Harvey




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## Warp daddy

More snow today on Little Whiteface


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## SudsNBumps

The Guns are going!


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## Cork

ORDA eyes post-Thanksgiving Whiteface opening | News, Sports, Jobs - Adirondack Daily Enterprise


The state Olympic Regional Development Authority is eyeing a Whiteface Ski Center opening the day after Thanksgiving. ORDA CEO Michael Pratt briefed mem




www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com





Interesting that there is no mention of Gore opening


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## Harvey

> Anyone who visits the ski center will be required to do a health screening through an app, according to Pratt.



Would like to know what this means.


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## Big D

Harvey said:


> Would like to know what this means.


Harve: I remember reading about a guy that mansion he had to fill out a "Covid Questionaire" everyday before he was allowed to work. So I searched the net for a Covid Questionaire and this popped up as an example?????? (who knows}


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## Brownski

Harvey said:


> Would like to know what this means.


My gym has a 5 question form I have to fill out each time I enter + a temperature check


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## Harvey

Big D said:


> Harve: I remember reading about a guy that mansion he had to fill out a "Covid Questionaire" everyday before he was allowed to work. So I searched the net for a Covid Questionaire and this popped up as an example?????? (who knows}



Thanks man. Now I get it. Wasn't sure exactly how the app came into it.

So who is skiing opening day or weekend at Whiteface?


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## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> Thanks man. Now I get it. Wasn't sure exactly how the app came into it.
> 
> So who is skiing opening day or weekend at Whiteface?


Passholders only the first weekend.

mm


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## Harvey

No mention that I see of terrain they are working on. Anyone have any insight?

I thought(?) they normally start on Excelsior and Upper Valley? It's been a long time since I skied WF early.


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## Jon951

When is the projected WF opening date if reported at this time?


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## Harvey

Friday.

Looks like it "sorta" cold this week but the mountains seem to be having a tough time.

Whiteface at 3800 feet:


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## Harvey

Thursday looks worse than yesterday, now no snow, even at elevation but maybe it won't be a gully washer. From NWS, forecast for 3800 feet:



*Today*
Mostly cloudy, then gradually becoming sunny, with a high near 16. Wind chill values as low as -7. Windy, with a northwest wind 29 to 34 mph decreasing to 16 to 21 mph in the afternoon.

*Tonight*
Snow likely, mainly after 5am. Increasing clouds, with a low around 12. Wind chill values as low as zero. Breezy, with a west wind 5 to 10 mph becoming southwest 19 to 24 mph in the evening. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.

*Wednesday*
Snow likely, mainly before 1pm. Cloudy, with a high near 30. Wind chill values as low as -1. Very windy, with a southwest wind 36 to 46 mph. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.

*Wednesday Night*
Snow showers likely before 2am, then rain showers likely. Cloudy, with a low around 29. Windy, with a southwest wind 23 to 28 mph decreasing to 15 to 20 mph after midnight. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.

*Thanksgiving Day*
Showers likely. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 40. Southwest wind 15 to 18 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%. *New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.

Thursday Night*
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 33. Southwest wind around 16 mph.

*Friday*
Mostly cloudy, with a high near 36. West wind around 17 mph.

*Friday Night*
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 26. Breezy, with a west wind 16 to 23 mph.

*Saturday*
A 30 percent chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 30. Windy, with a southwest wind 18 to 23 mph increasing to 25 to 30 mph in the afternoon.

*Saturday Night*
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 18. Windy, with a west wind 28 to 31 mph.

*Sunday*
Mostly sunny, with a high near 27. Windy, with a southwest wind 23 to 28 mph.



@jasonwx any input for Thursday at Whiteface?


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## jasonwx

no real significant weather this week, precip or cold..


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## Harvey

Hearing WF and Gore pushed to 12/4.


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## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> Hearing WF and Gore pushed to 12/4.


Having skied Thanksgiving weekend at WF a few times, they need more than just one way down this time. Allowing more time for snowmaking and snow to build base makes sense.


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## Harvey

The plan for WF for Friday was two ways down and "two" lifts. Never seen the summit open to start the season.


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## D.B. Cooper

Harvey said:


> The plan for WF for Friday was two ways down and "two" lifts. Never seen the summit open to start the season.


Gotta be Facelift and gondola. Give people the option of not being in a cabin.


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## JTG

D.B. Cooper said:


> Gotta be Facelift and gondola.


Or Facelift and Little Whiteface...keep everyone out of a cabin?


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## MarzNC

D.B. Cooper said:


> Gotta be Facelift and gondola. Give people the option of not being in a cabin.


That's what would be nice. But what I've experienced was the gondola and Mixing Bowl. The first time my daughter's friend wasn't good enough to ski down Excelsior so we didn't stay very long.

Since some New Yorkers are used to riding in elevators, there are probably plenty who won't be worried about riding in a gondola with open windows with people they are spending time with any way.


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## Harvey

Note that I put "two" in quotes. I was guessing:

Gondi
Summit Chair

Excelsior
Upper Valley
Lower Valley
Parons

OR it could be

Gondi
Summit Chair
LWF

Excelsior
Upper Valley
Parons

OR could you do it with

Facelift
Summit Chair
LWF

Somehow I am doubting three lifts. If you only blow Excelsior and Upper Valley can you get to the summit chair?

Clearly I'm not a expert at the WF trail map. Here is a handy reference for the WF trail map:









Whiteface Mountain Trail Map, Vertical Drop and Stats


Our profile of the resort in Wilmington, NY.




nyskiblog.com





?


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## JTG

So the summit (Paron’s) is in the plan for opening? That is interesting/unusual. You could make that work with Gondola and Summit Quad or Facelift and Summit Quad. Would require Paron’s, Excelsior, Upper/Lower Valley.


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## Harvey

I think they are trying to space people out.


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## JTG

I like it. I’m always a fan of getting the summit open earlier!


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## Harvey

OK not sure exactly what this says but a txt this am from AK:

"Right now Gondi and Facelift are most practical."

Sounds like maybe the summit is off the table for now.


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## NYSkiBlog

"Summit is still in our early plans, but will be tough to get by opening day with the weather forecast next week."


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## idratherbskiing

After todays weather, I have a feeling opening dates will be pushed back.


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## Harvey

This is certainly not out of the question, based on what I am hearing.


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## Milo Maltbie

It looks like a run of cold nights beginning Tuesday. Maybe open Saturday or Sunday instead of Friday?

mm


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## NYSkiBlog

"Starting again tonight. Has not been a good week and temps are still marginal. We are going to give it our best."


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## Milo Maltbie

Sugarbush moved opening day back to December 10, so there's that.

mm


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## Harvey

Milo Maltbie said:


> Sugarbush moved opening day back to December 10, so there's that.



I saw that. SB wanted two ways/lifts T2B, I think? 

I'm guessing that is a pretty good sign we (SKI3) may see that too.


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## Milo Maltbie

I think ORDA may move back to December 11, but top to bottom won't happen until Xmas.

mm


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## D.B. Cooper

Milo Maltbie said:


> I think ORDA may move back to December 11


I haven't been past WF in a while, but with the warm weather recently I can't imagine much of the stockpile remains. I'm sure more than a few skiers and ski areas are thinking, "Welp, the weather is out of our hands. At least we don't have to worry about the virus."


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## Milo Maltbie

The latest is that WF and Gore will open Saturday. I'll be at Gore.

mm


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## NYSkiBlog

"Broadway, Lower Valley, Fox."


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## Harvey

Hard to see up top but skiing is really good. Nice taters.

Got an n95, chills my Ss out


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## Harvey

Anyone know top elevation or vert of the Face Lift?


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## Capdistski

Harvey said:


> Anyone know top elevation or vert of the Face Lift?


Well I did 16,800 ft from 12 runs today....so...around 1400ft?

it was a good warmup day. Skiing through snowmaking most of the run - wind was picking up exposing some ice by the end of my day at 12:15.

Should be a good week for snowmaking but some natural would be nice. Otherwise they have a lot of ground to cover.


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## D.B. Cooper

Inside of the new mid-station. A floor plan is posted that indicates the area behind those vending machines adds about another third to the square footage that's accessible now.


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## Harvey

I was in there Saturday, it's really nice. Kind of perfect that it's not done yet, in a way.

Thanks for the pics, my indoor shots came out crappy.


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## Jon951

I was digging the exterior siding...either Woodtone type product or Hardi cement board....used this material on my LP build...went with the Woodtone. The finish supposedly holds up fpr 20 yrs...time will tell. Interior architecture at mid is realy nice.


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## Harvey

Capdistski said:


> Well I did 16,800 ft from 12 runs today....so...around 1400ft?


I added Face Lift stats to the directory listing. Is it correct?









Whiteface Mountain Trail Map, Vertical Drop and Stats


Our profile of the resort in Wilmington, NY.




nyskiblog.com





I figure since it was used alone to the start the season, it must be considered an important pod.


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## Cork

Uphill Policy announced... 









Uphill Program - Whiteface Mountain


The best way for many skiers and riders to start their day is with “dawn patrol” — getting up at the crack of dawn, skinning up the mountain by headlamp, watching the sunrise over the mountain and getting first tracks down a superbly groomed run.




whiteface.com


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## marcski

3 days/week? I assume its going to be mid-week?


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## 3dogs

Ski whiteface today excellent conditions big improvement over Saturday.


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## Endoftheline

Cork said:


> Uphill Policy announced...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uphill Program - Whiteface Mountain
> 
> 
> The best way for many skiers and riders to start their day is with “dawn patrol” — getting up at the crack of dawn, skinning up the mountain by headlamp, watching the sunrise over the mountain and getting first tracks down a superbly groomed run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whiteface.com


$129. for a season uphill pass?? Seems pretty steep for only 3 days/week. Anyone know how much it ran last year?


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## JTG

Ouch! That’s terrible. If I recall correctly it only used to be like $25. That’s total bs, $129. I’ve gotten an uphill pass several years. Not this time...talk about gouging!


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## Harvey

All the mountains are dealing with:


Too many skiers
Not enough revenue

Day tickets are way up across the country. 

I think both reactions are logical, the mountain's reaction and the skier's reaction. Seems like they are trying to reduce both supply and demand.


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## JTG

I get day tickets being up. I accept that. But that kind of $$ for an extremely limited window to get one run? Too far, IMHO. But, as we know....opinions are like assholes!


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## Milo Maltbie

I think the real message here is that they don't what uphill skiers, but they don't have the clout to outright ban them. So they just raise the price until they all go way. I think they are doing the same thing by requiring avy gear on the Slides. Locals will still do all that stuff, but the tourists will quit. 

mm


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## Endoftheline

JTG said:


> Ouch! That’s terrible. If I recall correctly it only used to be like $25. That’s total bs, $129. I’ve gotten an uphill pass several years. Not this time...talk about gouging!


I heard that ORDA had proposed a big increase for XC passes at Van Ho then got a lot of heat and backed off. Maybe they will do the same here but given the relatively low # of uphill skiers it doesn't seem likely.


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## JTG

Yeah, I had been thinking the exact same thing.


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## Harvey

Paging @Peter Minde he posted about it here, somewhere.


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## Peter Minde

Harvey said:


> Paging @Peter Minde he posted about it here, somewhere.


Van Ho individual season passes weren't originally $325 this year. After a public outcry, reduced to to $225, and they generally restructured their season pass pricing. I think it's much more sensible.


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## Face4Me

I went over to the mountain to get a few early runs in. I wasn't planning to spend the whole day ... just get in 3, maybe 4 runs, and call it a day.

Unfortunately, the gondola was on a delayed opening. I heard two stories regarding the reason, but from what I could tell, the more likely reason was that they had a snow cat coming down from Paron's Run, and didn't want to have skiing traffic on the hill while the cat was coming down. Why would a snow cat be coming down from Paron's Run? Because they started making snow up there this morning!!! From what I could see from the top of the gondola (once it opened), they had guns going on most of the upper section of Paron's, and a couple of guns going on the lower section.

They're also making snow on Easy Street and from what it looked like, the last pitch of Draper's Drop (they're probably trying to get that set up so that the racers can cut over to it from Tomcat and run some gates ... that's just my guess).

There were a handful of other guns going in other locations, but overall, not looking like a really "strong" effort to expand terrain quickly. It looks like they're just going to try to get a few more trails open, here and there, as they can. They were planning to have Bear Den and the new Falcon Quad open today, but as of this morning, it didn't look like that was going to happen.

Other than that ... it was a beautiful (maybe a little cold) blue bird morning. Conditions were firm packed powder.


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## Face4Me

I was always taught, that if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
...
End of report.


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## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> I was always taught, that if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
> ...
> End of report.


LOL


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## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> LOL


Certainly not an encouraging conditions report, but I’ll be damed if it wasn’t one of the best....or at least funniest!


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## DanS

At whiteface today. The snow surface was decent, although strangely the higher you were the icier it was. The lines at the facelift were small, gondola was 7 min the one time we took it. There doesn’t seem to be a a lot of variation in the way one can ski down the mountain, currently all the routes seem similar to me, all groomed intermediate trails. The trails were more crowded than I am comfortable with, but I felt social distancing in the non skiing areas was not a problem.

There was probably one inch of fresh snow. We did ski one run yesterday around 2:30, and it was way better today than yesterday. It is nice to see that f’(x)>0, but it seems there is a crappy rain event coming this Thursday.


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## tirolski

DanS said:


> At whiteface today. There was probably one inch of fresh snow...it was way better today than yesterday. It is nice to see that f’(x)>0, but it seems there is a crappy rain event coming this Thursday.


Congrats for the use of calculus in a ski conditions report. Must be a lake placid thing.


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## DanS

tirolski said:


> Congrats for the use of calculus in a ski conditions report. Must be a lake placid thing.


Ha! I didn’t even realize I dropped that in there.

Anyways, woke up to a nice surprise of 1-2” on the car. The mountain skied nice this morning, there just isn’t much terrain yet. Definitely more expert options available at gore for now.

Other than to use the bathroom at the mid station lodge, I haven’t gone inside, but outside I feel very comfortable re COVID. I felt the women managing the gondola was doing an awesome job enforcing safety protocols.


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## DanS

Pretty much more of the same at whiteface today. Nice snow surface but not much variety in terrain. The little whiteface double opened, but no new trails to go with it. I must say the mountain is impressive.




with all the snow making they have accumulated I would have thought they would open at least some expert terrain at this point, but I know nothing about the logistics of mountain ops.

It was a nice day regarding the weather.


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## D.B. Cooper

Lots of wet snow guns this aft. Lower part of Mountain Run (below Thruway) has not seen a snow gun yet. With super warm temps the next 2 days, touch ups will be needed on Excelsior and elsewhere. I don't see Mountain Run opening for about a week. Guns on Calamity Lane, although how do you get there without snow being made on Thruway?

Guns also on Paron's, Boreen, below cutoff to Bear Den, and on Draper's. Seems to be a hodgepodge of snow being made, but I don't know the constraints of the snow making system. Maybe Draper's or Paron's to open next?

Additional snowmaking capacity added over the summer is not evident. That is, one doesn't say, "Wow! They're making a crap ton more snow than last year!"


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## Endoftheline

D.B. Cooper said:


> Lots of wet snow guns this aft. Lower part of Mountain Run (below Thruway) has not seen a snow gun yet. With super warm temps the next 2 days, touch ups will be needed on Excelsior and elsewhere. I don't see Mountain Run opening for about a week. Guns on Calamity Lane, although how do you get there without snow being made on Thruway?
> 
> Guns also on Paron's, Boreen, below cutoff to Bear Den, and on Draper's. Seems to be a hodgepodge of snow being made, but I don't know the constraints of the snow making system. Maybe Draper's or Paron's to open next?
> 
> Additional snowmaking capacity added over the summer is not evident. That is, one doesn't say, "Wow! They're making a crap ton more snow than last year!"


Heard from a friend who skied WF on Monday that the snowmaking system was upgraded with more powerful pumps(water) and the result was that several water pipes ruptured under the higher pressure. He said there were excavators or some type of heavy equipment on the hill repairing breaks that day. Could explain why the snowmaking is spotty on the hill. Of course it will all be shut down for the next 48 hours or so anyway with the rainstorm coming in.


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## Face4Me

Endoftheline said:


> Heard from a friend who skied WF on Monday that the snowmaking system was upgraded with more powerful pumps(water) and the result was that several water pipes ruptured under the higher pressure. He said there were excavators or some type of heavy equipment on the hill repairing breaks that day. Could explain why the snowmaking is spotty on the hill. Of course it will all be shut down for the next 48 hours or so anyway with the rainstorm coming in.


I've heard a similar story. Of course, why would you charge up the system to test it in October or early November when you don't yet need it, and when it would be easier to repair any problems? Broken pipes and hydrants have become an annual problem, and they don't seem to have any interest in coming up with a plan to deal with it.


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## Brownski

That doesn’t make sense to me. Any snowmaking system should have the ability to regulate how much pressure is going up the hill. Water pressure is a very important factor. If they blew up a pipe it was human error or just a very old pipe.


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## Harvey

Midcam back in action and it looks nice:









Whiteface Lake Placid Webcams | Whiteface Mountain


Check out the Whiteface Lake Placid webcams from all around the Olympic Sites, including from the Whiteface summit, Olympic Speed Skating Oval, and more!




whiteface.com





It is linked on the appropriate NYSB weather pages.


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## x10003q

Harvey said:


> Midcam back in action and it looks nice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whiteface Lake Placid Webcams | Whiteface Mountain
> 
> 
> Check out the Whiteface Lake Placid webcams from all around the Olympic Sites, including from the Whiteface summit, Olympic Speed Skating Oval, and more!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whiteface.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is linked on the appropriate NYSB weather pages.


That cam location is awesome.


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## Face4Me

Took a few runs this morning ... surface conditions were ok, but nothing to get too excited about.

Still very limited terrain, and the snowmaking effort is still woefully inadequate. They continue to make snow on "parts" of trails ... it's very hard to understand the logic. I assume there are still issues with the system, but I haven't heard anything definite. 

All in all, it's just very disappointing and frustrating, but not at all surprising.

In most years, I would already have about 10 - 15 ski days by now ... This year, I have about 4, and all of those have been 2 or 3 runs and quit ... it's simply not worth the effort.


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## D.B. Cooper

I heard from a reliable source that the hodgepodge of guns going at WF is because there is a variety of functional pipes, staffing issues and other constraints. At least one of the "new" pumps blew (not sure if it is repairable). "New" because the pumps are at least a few years old.


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## 3dogs

Ski day 6 @ Whiteface today. Man I'm sick of excelsior! Guns going on mountain run, lower north way and boreen. 
To say drapers open is a joke u can ski the drop from tom cat down. With some grooming paronns could open soon? Come on Whiteface get you're shit together! Blow some snow on lower Mac and it could open.


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## D.B. Cooper

Guns back on Mountain Run. Some guns on Paron's. Overheard that both may be opened in the next couple of days. Lower Northway groomed at the top, but not wall-to-wall coverage.


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## Face4Me

Todays conditions ... 

Chocolate chip.


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## Face4Me

Went back over this morning and took a few more runs. It's still pretty hard to get too excited about it, and most of the people I know, and have talked to, feel the same way. The "it's just not worth the effort" feeling seems to be more contagious than COVID.

In what may be the first bright spot of the season, however, conditions were a little bit better today than they've been, though there were some areas that were still pretty bad.

They opened Lower Northway, which if nothing else, at least spreads a little bit of the load coming off of Little Whiteface. It was frozen granular, and there were some "narrow" sections that you had to be mindful of. Maybe with a little snow and some more grooming, they'll be able to even things out a bit. It would have been nice if Essex had been blown at the same time to spread things out even more. The first part of Excelsior is still getting WAY too much traffic.

They widened the snow on the first pitch of Boreen ... yesterday, it was insanely narrow, particularly given the ability level of most of the people on it. Overall, the surface was also better than it was yesterday, but there were still some parts that need better grooming.

They're finally blowing what I would call a decent amount of snow on Mountain Run, and they're also blowing on Thruway. No doubt, Thruway is being blown so that the racers have a place to go. From the looks of it, I would think Mountain Run could be open tomorrow, though there may only be enough snow to open the skier's left side of the lift line. At this point, anything would be an improvement!

Paron's Run is also getting some snowmaking. It's hard to judge how close that it to being skiable ... maybe this weekend ... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

If we get some snow from tonight's storm, that would go a long way towards helping out with "resurfacing" on some of the trails that have been completely over-used for weeks now.

Finally ... the mountain is a ghost town ... I can't believe how few people there are. The only place there's a wait is at the gondola, and I don't bother with that, so I don't know how long the wait is. The Face Lift and Little Whiteface chairs have been essentially "ski on" for the past two days. At most, you might wait 3 or 4 chairs.

For those concerned about COVID precautions, overall, from what I've seen, it's been pretty good. Most people do seem to be wearing masks and following the rules. A big part of that may be due to this being a black out period for locals. In the earlier part of the season, when there were more problems, it was pretty apparent that a lot of the people who were not following the rules were local people. It will be interesting to see how things go once the black out period ends, which I'm assuming is on Sunday.


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## Face4Me

JTG said:


> Looks like Coronavirus may keep my family from making the annual MLK trip to Placid/Whiteface for the first time in more than 20 years.


Of course there's still two weeks to go, but unless there's a SIGNIFICANT turn-around, in all honesty, you won't be missing much ... at least not as far as the skiing is concerned. 

The forecast over the next week is pretty good for snowmaking, but they still have SO much to do, and it's hard to guess what they're going to do next. Are they going to try to add more trails? Increase base depths? Blow a ton of snow on Brookside to build a terrain park?

They might be able to get Skyward open by then, but then again, who knows ... they could blow another snowmaking line up there (like what happened last season).

If you can get tickets, and don't have any concerns about travel restrictions, I would think that going out west would probably be the better option.


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## Harvey

Face4Me said:


> They might be able to get Skyward open



On IG WF was promising some summit by Thursday latest.


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## Face4Me

Harvey said:


> On IG WF was promising some summit by Thursday.


From what I could see today, I'd expect Paron's Run to be open well before Thursday, but I guess that may also depend on staffing and things like that. It certainly looks like there's enough snow up there.


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## Harvey

Face4Me said:


> From what I could see today, I'd expect Paron's Run to be open well before Thursday,



What I said was kind of misleading. Someone who was clearly coming next Thursday said 

"Will you have summit terrain open by next Thursday?"

"The answer was not "most definitely" but something like "very likely" which I am guessing is ORDA-speak for "Yes."


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## D.B. Cooper

Nothing staged on Skyward yet. Paron's opened.


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## DanS

How was the snow? Gore got some ice mixed in with 5 or so inches, which made things somewhat interesting as the day wore on.


----------



## Face4Me

I would say that Whiteface got about 5-6 inches of dense powder. It was certainly the best day of the season so far. As could be expected, the snow piled up pretty quickly, with some hard-pack between the piles, but it was still pretty good.

Paron's run opened ... The snow was better than I expected, especially the section above the junction with The Follies. From there to Excelsior wasn't as good. Also, the visibility was awful.

Mountain Run opened, but by the time I found that out, they had already closed the Little Whiteface chair (and the gondola) due to high winds.

I think tomorrow has potential to be very good, assuming they do a decent job of grooming tonight, to work all of the new snow into the base. They really needed this snow, and could use a few more!


----------



## snoloco

D.B. Cooper said:


> Nothing staged on Skyward yet. Paron's opened.


I would expect Wilmington before Skyward like they did last year. They need to open extra lifts to spread people out.


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> I would say that Whiteface got about 5-6 inches of dense powder. It was certainly the best day of the season so far.


Saturday was great up until around noon when I left. Was there for first lifts...excellent morning and agree on the 5-6...salvaged the whole holiday week as things were pretty thin prior to that. I bet Sunday was real nice too (wasn't there).

Here's a nice pic I took from New Year's morning as the storm was moving in...


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> I bet Sunday was real nice too (wasn't there).


Conditions on Sunday were about as good as they've been, though maybe not quite as good as I was expecting. There was a lot of wind on Saturday afternoon, so a lot of the new snow may have been blown into the trees. If nothing else, most of the chocolate chips were gone.

Sunday's issues were operational ... The Little Whiteface chair didn't run first thing, which led to long lines at the gondola and the Face Lift. The Summit Quad opened at around 9:30 or so (maybe a little earlier). I did a couple of runs on the Face Lift, and then I decided to deal with the line at the gondola. As has been mentioned in another thread, riding the lifts with other people, and the social aspect of that, is definitely missing in this COVID-19 world in which we live. I find it REALLY depressing riding the gondola alone ... This was the first time I had used the gondola since they started running the Little Whiteface chair a couple of weeks ago ... Somehow, riding alone isn't as bad on an open chair.

After finally getting to the top of Little Whiteface, I saw people coming down Paron's Run so I made my way to the Summit Quad. The line wasn't really too bad there. I did a couple of runs there. The visibility was SO MUCH better than it was on Saturday, and the top half of the trail was in pretty good shape ... not so much on the bottom half. I then headed down to the mid-station to check on the Little Whiteface chair. It still wasn't running. 

I went down to the base area, and at that point, the lines were now really long at the Face Lift as well as the gondola. Between having to wait on the lines, and then skiing the same trails over & over, I decided to just call it a day. As I've said before, it just wasn't worth the effort. As I was leaving, they finally had gotten the Little Whiteface chair running ... that was around 10:30 or so, but I was told they never opened Mountain Run, so I wasn't sorry I left.

They were still making snow on Upper Thruway & Mountain Run on Sunday, and they had a pathetic effort going on Victoria ... TWO low energy guns in the middle section of the trail blowing dust ... mostly into the trees from what I could see from my two rides on the Summit Quad. I still can't understand why they don't blow Essex. They could probably get that covered in 2 or 3 days, and at least it would provide another way down from the top of Little Whiteface and provide a little variety.

I will say, I do think they're doing a very good job with respect to COVID-19 ... They've had people in the lift areas making sure that people are wearing their face masks, and overall, compliance with that seems to be very good. I did see one jerk completely ignore and blow off an employee who asked him to put his mask on while he was walking through the drop off area in front of the lodge. You're always going to have entitled people who think they can do whatever they want ... You can't fix stupid!


----------



## DanS

Anybody ski whiteface today? The report says there are some bumps on a few trails which is nice. Hopefully they don’t groom them for the weekend.


----------



## CarlS

DanS said:


> Anybody ski whiteface today? The report says there are some bumps on a few trails which is nice. Hopefully they don’t groom them for the weekend.


There were bumps on Victoria. They are still blowing snow. May still have bumps tomorrow, but no promises


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Snowmaking top to bottom of Thruway and on Danny's Bridge/Brookside. I don't know if that's for park features or to add coverage. Approach seems to be open as there were skiers on Mt. Run even though LWF wasn't open. No sign of impending activity on Skyward. At this point I doubt Lookout will open this year.


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## snoloco

Approach opened and they posted about it on the website and social media. The Freeway lift was also reported open, though I'm not sure if one can ride past the mid station at this point. I'm surprised that Lower Thruway is a priority, though it doesn't take long to open. Same with resurfacing on Danny's Bridge and Brookside. I don't think large park builds have been prioritized at any resort this season, but they may be doing it for coverage. Lookout is an absolute necessity in any year, but there's especially a need for it this year for the extra lift. There is still plenty of time to get to it as well as Skyward. Last year, Wilmington opened before Skyward, and they started making snow there around MLK weekend and opened it around the end of January.


----------



## DanS

Face lift was not running at 8:30, there were some people stuck on it. Still not opened at 10:40. Summit on windhold.

skiing is weird, in some spots the snow is great, others sort of weird, kind off like ungroomed snow making mounds but without the mounds.

mountain run was pretty good. I thought
Lower Mackenzie was ok, thin cover for sure.
Victoria did have a few moguls, but they had groomed close into them and there where some chunks in between which messed with the lines.

snow in the bear den area is actually amazing, great spot to learn.


----------



## Face4Me

Lift issues ... lots of ice ... chocolate chips ... 

Trying to find the positive, but ...


----------



## GoreSkiMom

Agree with Dan S., pockets of goodness but holy hell you had to be ready to hit skating rink ice at any moment. They are serious about face masks. We saw a skier escorted out of the midlodge by patrollers who were taking the patron to the bottom where a trooper was waiting. The guest was flagged for no mask and also refused to surrender their lift ticket. No wind, nice temperature and some blue skies but boy we need a snowstorm.


----------



## DanS

Regarding the temp, this was the first sub 20 day for me and I have turned into a wimp. Granted, it was almost sub zero when we booted up, but given what I have endured in the past I was unpleasantly surprised by my endurance for the cold.

On the positive, the views were amazing today. And, given the forecast, I believe some great terrain will be open in the next couple weeks.


----------



## snoloco

Totally agree on the conditions. They've had almost no natural snow this season. 

Tons of lift problems in the morning. Summit Quad on wind hold, which also reduced the speed of the gondola. Facelift down for 2 hours. Little Whiteface and Freeway seemed to be overheating as they skipped chairs and/or ran at reduced speed at times. Snowmaking on Skyward started in the afternoon. 

Oddly, I didn't see anyone get in trouble for no mask. Must be better compliance in cold weather. They need to enforce the rules and repeat offenders should have their passes pulled, but I think it's a really delicate balance to avoid being overzealous. Escorting someone out like that should only be reserved for the most egregious of offenses.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> Tons of lift problems in the morning. Summit Quad on wind hold, which also reduced the speed of the gondola.


I have it on very good authority that it wasn't wind.


----------



## DanS

Much better day than yesterday. The blue run off the summit was in good shape. There was a good, albeit short, bump line on Victoria. Run off the day was whatever trail is skier’s right of mountain run. it was under the snow guns with nice piles and ridges.

most lift lines were pretty short and the mountain did not feel crowded to me.


----------



## JTG

D.B. Cooper said:


> I have it on very good authority that it wasn't wind.


Sorry, I call discussion board party foul. More info must be shared!

Excited they fired up the guns on Skyward, hopefully they make a push to have it for MLK weekend. Six days should be sufficient time? Maybe not. Last year for MLK I think I remember it being a mess, when they tried to groom it in before the snow had drained properly. 

Think firing up Sky first means anything for Lookout, as far as opening this season? Last year they prioritized Wilmington over Skyward, IIRC. Of course, before last year they usually did Sky first, and it was often tight getting it ready for MLK. Still relatively early, with (normally) another month of snowmaking after MLK.


----------



## Face4Me

DanS said:


> Much better day than yesterday. The blue run off the summit was in good shape. There was a good, albeit short, bump line on Victoria. Run off the day was whatever trail is skier’s right of mountain run. it was under the snow guns with nice piles and ridges.
> 
> most lift lines were pretty short and the mountain did not feel crowded to me.


Agreed ... much better morning today than yesterday, though by 11:00, things were started to get pretty well skied off, so I left at around 11:30. Conditions were decent early on ... mostly hard pack, but you could put an edge into it.

Definitely not anywhere near as crowded as yesterday, but, there weren't any lift issues today. Also, I don't believe there was a race today, which was not the case yesterday.

I thought about skiing Upper Thruway (the trail skier's right of mountain run), but I honestly just don't trust the guns this year ... they've been blowing so much wet snow, and I don't want to take any chances with an already bad knee. As I was riding the Little Whiteface chair, I saw a guy who had yard-saled on the downhill side of the big mound of man-made right at the start of Upper Thruway ... not sure if it was related to wet snow or not ... I didn't actually see him go down ... just the aftermath. Yesterday, a friend of mine skied through a gun and almost double-ejected. I saw another guy go through the same gun, ejected out of one ski and got spun around and was almost tagged by another skier coming by on the side.

As a side note, it was an absolutely beautiful morning ...


----------



## JTG

While I’m not at all optimistic for conditions next weekend (hard pack trails, skied off early), having not been on skis since last Feb I’m stoked just to be in the mountains on snow. Those views are spectacular.


----------



## Brownski

Nice pics, Face!


----------



## Face4Me

Brownski said:


> Nice pics, Face!


I very rarely take pictures while I'm skiing, but I made an exception today!


----------



## snoloco

Last year was the only year Wilmington was prioritized over Skyward. This is the first time I can remember that Skyward is being prioritized over Follies. I believe the goal is to direct people away from Paron's, and Skyward does that better. I'm fairly certain the Chevy event is cancelled, which means MLK Weekend should be somewhat tolerable.


----------



## Kevin

Face4Me said:


> Agreed ... much better morning today than yesterday, though by 11:00, things were started to get pretty well skied off, so I left at around 11:30. Conditions were decent early on ... mostly hard pack, but you could put an edge into it.
> 
> Definitely not anywhere near as crowded as yesterday, but, there weren't any lift issues today. Also, I don't believe there was a race today, which was not the case yesterday.
> 
> I thought about skiing Upper Thruway (the trail skier's right of mountain run), but I honestly just don't trust the guns this year ... they've been blowing so much wet snow, and I don't want to take any chances with an already bad knee. As I was riding the Little Whiteface chair, I saw a guy who had yard-saled on the downhill side of the big mound of man-made right at the start of Upper Thruway ... not sure if it was related to wet snow or not ... I didn't actually see him go down ... just the aftermath. Yesterday, a friend of mine skied through a gun and almost double-ejected. I saw another guy go through the same gun, ejected out of one ski and got spun around and was almost tagged by another skier coming by on the side.
> 
> As a side note, it was an absolutely beautiful morning ...


Saturday was a bit of an exercise in patience as facelift was down for hours and then the summit shut down. We saw snowmobiles racing up to do an emergency extraction. It was definitely mechanical, we heard from a lift worker later. Sunday was absolutely beautiful day, bluebird all the way. Yes things got skied off halfway through the day, though with much fewer skiers (2500 apparently) things lasted much longer. So happy to have the summit open even though the middle of Paron’s got a little scrapey. Still plenty of snow on the sides. My son’s first trip to the summit and he was appropriately amazed. Some pics below. Worst mess I saw was on Mountain Run. Wish I would’ve gotten there earlier to hit the speedy corduroy! Was all chopped up by the afternoon after we emerged from the summit. I will agree with earlier poster who says snow they’re blowing is incredibly sticky. Stops my freshly waxed skis right in their tracks. Saw people tripping up on it.


----------



## CarlS

Anyone know what the situation with the Gondola is? Has not run the past 2 days.


----------



## JTG

While I’m not sure I plan to be using the gondola, I hope it’s open this weekend to keep the line for the Face Lift from getting long. 

Fortunately temps for Sat/Sun look like they may stay around 30, but Monday looks colder. Not gonna lie, it going to be tough not having the gondola or lodges to warm up in.....


----------



## Face4Me

JTG said:


> Excited they fired up the guns on Skyward, hopefully they make a push to have it for MLK weekend. Six days should be sufficient time? Maybe not. Last year for MLK I think I remember it being a mess, when they tried to groom it in before the snow had drained properly.


Looks like you got your wish ... according to the Whiteface Facebook page, Skyward & Niagara are open!


----------



## DanS

Probably three inches of heavy snow at the base. Absolutely nuking at the moment. A little windy on the drive over so that may cause some problems.


----------



## DanS

Best day of the year for me. Snowed all day, and the snow was definitely heavy. It’s hard to give a total, there were around 3 inches on my car when we left but I am pretty certain the total was closer to five or six while we were skiing (in addition to the three overnight).

skyward was not open on our one trip to the summit, but the snow guns were on. It may have opened later in the day, but I don’t know. All the diamonds off LWF lift were very good.

wind was not an issue, visibility was poor, and I got completely soaked, first time I have ever been able to squeeze water out of my mittens.


----------



## JTG

Agreed, very good day! Wet....tiring....weird.....but good. Yes, Skyward and Niagara opened in the afternoon. After we were done eating sandwiches in the car Skyward was open.

Everything skied well. Overall I’d say 6 inches was fair, maybe slightly more up high. Some decent wet powder runs early, and the wet packed powder also skied well. Upper Sky was fun, but different. The least snow I think I’ve ever seen on it, kind of skied more like Cloud down the skiers right. Big whales down the middle.

Hopefully the wet pack doesn’t set up too firm overnight, but I’m sure they will groom everything in well. That, and the Winter Storm Warning continues until 4pm tomorrow, another 6 plus possible as the snow ramps up again overnight and tomorrow.

I was shocked at the lack of crowds. From talking to Ron Kon waiting for first gondola, right to the end of the day, the lifts were walk on. Kind of sad almost, knowing what MLK weekend should be....but I’ll take it.


----------



## ADKmike

JTG said:


> Agreed, very good day! Wet....tiring....weird.....but good. Yes, Skyward and Niagara opened in the afternoon. After we were done eating sandwiches in the car Skyward was open.
> 
> Everything skied well. Overall I’d say 6 inches was fair, maybe slightly more up high. Some decent wet powder runs early, and the wet packed powder also skied well. Upper Sky was fun, but different. The least snow I think I’ve ever seen on it, kind of skied more like Cloud down the skiers right. Big whales down the middle.
> 
> Hopefully the wet pack doesn’t set up too firm overnight, but I’m sure they will groom everything in well. That, and the Winter Storm Warning continues until 4pm tomorrow, another 6 plus possible as the snow ramps up again overnight and tomorrow.
> 
> I was shocked at the lack of crowds. From talking to Ron Kon waiting for first gondola, right to the end of the day, the lifts were walk on. Kind of sad almost, knowing what MLK weekend should be....but I’ll take it.


Nice sounds like things should be excellent tmrw if it keeps snowing which it currently is at 2k in LP. Will be there tmrw morning I’m assuming wind wasnt an issue at all based on your post


----------



## JTG

No wind issues today, hope tomorrow is as good.


----------



## Tjf1967

No chevy guys


----------



## JTG

I was surprised they still had the vehicles out.


----------



## snoloco

I learned the hard way that Chevy Weekend was always a weekend to avoid, made worse by the fact that they can't seem to get Lookout open by then. Last season, I was told they eactually reduced the Chevy crowds a lot. They still had the event as usual, but for those who got free tickets online, they were allowed to use them at any point for the rest of the season, not just that weekend. Obviously this year there are no events.

Whiteface has been much less crowded than Gore this year. I believe there are two factors. One being that there are no Canadians due to the border closure, and two being that they aren't getting as much spillover from Vermont as Gore is. I considered going to Whiteface today, but I went to Gore because I didn't want to do the longer drive in messy weather.

Next week looks great for snowmaking. Time to get serious about opening Wilmington.


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> I learned the hard way that Chevy Weekend was always a weekend to avoid...


Funny....we’ve been going to Chevy Weekends probably for as long as they had them, and we’ve never felt that way.


----------



## DanS

JTG said:


> Funny....we’ve been going to Chevy Weekends probably for as long as they had them, and we’ve never felt that way.


Really nice today. Maybe another couple inches. Windier today, but not enough to impact lift ops. Skyward was good, a little sketchy at top, but super soft after the start. Trails off LWF all good. More people, but not really crowded.


----------



## JTG

DanS said:


> Really nice today. Maybe another couple inches. Windier today, but not enough to impact lift ops. Skyward was good, a little sketchy at top, but super soft after the start. Trails off LWF all good. More people, but not really crowded.


You can’t get a more accurate report than that! Conditions were really nice, everything skied really well. Lines were pretty short. Another good snowstorm or two should put a lot more terrain in play.


----------



## Face4Me

This weekend certainly had the best conditions of the season so far. As others mentioned, the snow on Saturday was very wet and heavy ... I found some nice stashes of dryer, lighter snow on Paron's Run, but I left before they opened Skyward. The biggest problem on Saturday was visibility ... I don't know about anyone else, but the biggest problem with having to wear a mask is that my goggles fog up horribly ... I just can't seem to figure out a solution for this. I ended up skiing most of the day on Saturday with nothing, squinting through the falling snow ... it was brutal!

Conditions Sunday were great, though I only skied the Face Lift. My daughter was visiting for the weekend and it was her first time on skis since an ACL repair a few seasons ago, so we took it really easy. It was the perfect day, conditions-wise, for her to get back out there.

A lot busier yesterday than it was Saturday. I have to say, in my opinion, they are doing an outstanding job of managing the lift lines. The corrals are well organized, people are spaced out pretty well, and almost everyone is wearing masks. 

I still can't figure out why they haven't tried to get Essex open.


----------



## DanS

Regarding masks, I use the masks from ”ski the east” and I don’t fog unless I am breathing extremely heavily. Everyone’s face is a little different, and what works for me might not for you, but FWIW no one in my family has complained about fogging.

It was very difficult to see on Saturday. The snow melting on my goggles combined with the flat light and 3d nature of the snow surface had me goggles up and squinting at times as well.


----------



## JTG

DanS said:


> Regarding masks, I use the masks from ”ski the east” and I don’t fog unless I am breathing extremely heavily. Everyone’s face is a little different, and what works for me might not for you, but FWIW no one in my family has complained about fogging.
> 
> It was very difficult to see on Saturday. The snow melting on my goggles combined with the flat light and 3d nature of the snow surface had me goggles up and squinting at times as well.


I didn’t have issues with goggles Saturday but my boys did. I don’t keep the mask on while skiing, so airflow during that time generally cleared up any light fogging during the lift line.

My boys make the cardinal sin. A little fog works in, then they fuck with their goggles. Taking your goggle off to ‘dry’ the in the middle of a snowstorm is a baaaaad idea!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Nice to have more terrain open. Skyward still had guns in the middle/left of the trail, with hoses that you were expected to side step or ski over. Not that big of a deal, but surprising considering all the safety measures I've heard about. They must need new hoses but don't have a clear justification yet to buy some. No snowmaking yesterday, none on the report this a.m. I don't know where they would go next. I wouldn't be surprised if they stop a bit early this year. I'm sure they've lost some dough this year.

Thruway has been great recently. A number of trails being poached - Lower Sky, Parkway, even Empire. I wish they would do something with Parkway to get it open. Maybe one of the planned new lifts can service it better and/or they change the exit so you don't "run into" a long snow fence. For example, moving the Freeway mid station further up, near the start of Thruway. That would open up some great intermediate terrain.


----------



## DanS

Today, we started to do skyward, but we quickly noped out of there after we could barely see our skis due to the wind and snowmaking. The wind definitely moved the snow around, as well as making it significantly colder. There were very few people skiing, and it felt like we had the mountain to ourselves. The stretch of mountain run directly under the lift had a lot of nice soft snow. Favorite run for us was mackenzie (it was too cold for me to take pics, but my son and I did make the instagram feed).


----------



## JTG

Agree with Mackenzie as run of the weekend. We lapped Skyward (skiing the gun pow was excellent) all afternoon, until I made Mac my last run.


----------



## snoloco

D.B. Cooper said:


> I don't know where they would go next.


Um Essex, Lower Skyward, all of Lookout? Do those even exist to you? How could you, as a Whiteface regular, have forgotten that Lookout exists 12 years later? Seriously?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> Um Essex, Lower Skyward, all of Lookout? Do those even exist to you? How could you, as a Whiteface regular, have forgotten that Lookout exists 12 years later? Seriously?


I don't think they'll do Lower Sky because of the air leak in the pipe. Seems like a hazard to me. Lookout is a serious investment that I don't know that they would do. Maybe Essex or U. Northway. As I said, I think they shit things down early. Based on no inside info whatsoever.


----------



## snoloco

So you're making projections with no idea what you're talking about. As for Lookout, they need the lift if they want to sell more tickets.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> As for Lookout, they need the lift if they want to sell more tickets.


The expectation of passholders is, and should be, that the lift will open at some point during a normal year. This year is different, e.g. capacity limits, so to say that tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to make snow on Lookout is justified by additional lift ticket purchases alone.....well, that doesn't make sense.

And yes, I am speculating, so you're not far off in saying I don't know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Campgottagopee

I'm still wondering if the young lad has been punched yet or not


----------



## snoloco

D.B. Cooper said:


> This year is different, e.g. capacity limits, so to say that tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to make snow on Lookout is justified by additional lift ticket purchases alone.....well, that doesn't make sense.


Opening more terrain and lifts increases their capacity you moron. Are they not sold out of tickets every weekend?


----------



## Campgottagopee

Campgottagopee said:


> I'm still wondering if the young lad has been punched yet or not


?‍♂️


----------



## JTG

D.B. Cooper said:


> I am speculating, so you're not far off in saying I don't know what I'm talking about.


Did I miss when Sno was hired by WF? Otherwise, sounds like pot called kettle black?

D.B., as for that air leak on Lower Sky, is that the same line that feeds the guns on Skyward between the Niagara intersection and Weber’s/Glen? They were pounding that section of Skyward yesterday.

It wouldn’t take much to get Lower Sky open. It was poached a fair amount this weekend (not by me) and has good coverage from Blazer’s down. Also wouldn’t take long if they turned the guns on Essex. U Northway has more to cover, so maybe that’s less likely?

As for Lookout, nothing would surprise me.

U Mac and Cloud could open with another dump or two.


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> Are they not sold out of tickets every weekend?


Ummm....no, they aren’t. Talk about not knowing what you are talking about! Reel yourself in there cowboy. There is only one weekend all season that they are sold out. If MLK weekend was any indication (no crowds) it’s feasible that they wouldn’t spend on Lookout. They may not be able to sell enough additional Prez Day week tickets to justify it financially. Maybe there are other reasons to do it, but it’s all speculation and, as I said, nothing would surprise me. Once they finish whatever they do with Skyward and maybe turn the guns on Essex anything could happen.


----------



## Brownski

Campgottagopee said:


> I'm still wondering if the young lad has been punched yet or not


I feel bad saying it but it seems inevitable. Unless of course there’s a radical difference between how he conducts himself here and in the real world, which seems possible.


----------



## NorEaster27

JTG said:


> Ummm....no, they aren’t. Talk about not knowing what you are talking about! Reel yourself in there cowboy. There is only one weekend all season that they are sold out. If MLK weekend was any indication (no crowds) it’s feasible that they wouldn’t spend on Lookout. They may not be able to sell enough additional Prez Day week tickets to justify it financially. Maybe there are other reasons to do it, but it’s all speculation and, as I said, nothing would surprise me. Once they finish whatever they do with Skyward and maybe turn the guns on Essex anything could happen.


odd, Gore is sold out every weekend.


----------



## Tjf1967

Campgottagopee said:


> I'm still wondering if the young lad has been punched yet or not





Campgottagopee said:


> ?‍♂️


He definitely has not been kicked.


----------



## Campgottagopee

LOL


----------



## JTG

NorEaster27 said:


> odd, Gore is sold out every weekend.


WF had been, too...but on Jan 4 ticket availability opened up for all dates. They quickly sold out for MLK and Prez, but otherwise all dates are available. Perhaps it has to do with available terrain? WF now 68% open, whereas Gore is 43%. Hopefully as Gore gets more trails open availability will increase.


----------



## JTG

As a side note, other than this coming Saturday FSC tickets are available for all dates at Gore.


----------



## tirolski

A week ago sadly a skier died on the Approach little whiteface black diamond trail. Put a link in the “Helmets bro!" thread but have seen no further posts about the tragedy. State safe out there folks.


----------



## DanS

tirolski said:


> A week ago sadly a skier died on the Approach little whiteface black diamond trail. Put a link in the “Helmets bro!" thread but have seen no further posts about the tragedy. State safe out there folks.


I just read that link, I don’t believe it mentioned if the skier was wearing a helmet or not. Regardless, what a tragedy. I really feel for that young man‘s family.


----------



## JTG

tirolski said:


> A week ago sadly a skier died on the Approach little whiteface black diamond trail. Put a link in the “Helmets bro!" thread but have seen no further posts about the tragedy. State safe out there folks.


Yeah, we saw this. Approach itself isn’t black diamond terrain, but is rated black diamond because that is all it leads to. The reports referenced “Upper Approach”, but the whole trail is pretty flat. Just goes to show that anyone can fall anywhere and if you are near the side of the trail bad thing can happen. Only 22 years old. A shame. Stay safe and keep it under control out there.


----------



## tirolski

DanS said:


> I just read that link, I don’t believe it mentioned if the skier was wearing a helmet or not. Regardless, what a tragedy. I really feel for that young man‘s family.


He was a hockey player and players know the importance of helmets. Prayers to him, his family and friends.


----------



## Brownski

tirolski said:


> Put a link in the “Helmets bro!" thread but have seen no further posts about the tragedy.


Sorry. I got caught up in my own helmet related drama.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

JTG said:


> D.B., as for that air leak on Lower Sky, is that the same line that feeds the guns on Skyward between the Niagara intersection and Weber’s/Glen? They were pounding that section of Skyward yesterday.


Yeah, I think so because air was leaking when they were covering Sky/Niagara. The line might end or have a shutoff at Glen. I say that because there's often a gun under the lift, all alone. As you have to keep the water moving, there needs to be a gun at the end of the line. But I'll defer to engineers....

That said, snowmaking on Lower Sky today, to Glen/Weber's Way. Two guns on the last pitch of L. Parkway.


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> Perhaps it has to do with available terrain? WF now 68% open, whereas Gore is 43%. Hopefully as Gore gets more trails open availability will increase.


That is a lie. You are basing it off trail count, not acreage/mileage. A significant amount of Gore's counted trails are glades, and most of those are not open. If you count only snowmaking trails, Gore is far and away ahead of Whiteface which you'd know if you skied there. That is just an undeniable fact, and I'm not trying to allege incompetence by either management. 

Total mountain capacity is more limited by lifts than anything. Resorts are trying to spread people out and avoid massive lines. It doesn't really matter how many trails are open off one lift, as long as there's enough open that people will want to ski that lift.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> you moron



Hey man.


----------



## JTG

Whatever, Sno.

If the mountains can use expanded capacity as a basis on which to open up lift ticket availability they have to have a basis on which to measure the capacity. Open trail percentage is probably the easiest measure to use if they have to demonstrate capacity. Is it the best? You are right, probably not....but things are complicated enough. They could use open percentage of lifts, but WF is ahead of Gore there as well, 69% to 57%.

Either way, I’m just speculating that Gore probably needs to open more trails or more lifts if they are going to release more tickets, like WF did. I’m sure you will tell me I’m wrong, which I may be. I’m probably a moron, too. What you probably won’t do is tell me why it is Gore hasn’t released more tickets, if it’s not percentage of available trails/lifts open, as I speculate.


----------



## Brownski

ixnay on the moron’ nay, Sno.


----------



## snoloco

Once again you make inaccurate comparisons to fit your narrative. You're comparing weekday lifts, not weekend lifts which is what determines capacity. I don't understand what you're arguing for. Do want less terrain open? I'm arguing that Lookout is extremely important and should not be written off like you and DB support. That terrain is a big part of what keeps me coming back to Whiteface year after year after year.

Another thing you might not have known is that new HKD snow guns were installed on The Wilmington Trail last summer.


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> Once again you make inaccurate comparisons to fit your narrative. You're comparing weekday lifts, not weekend lifts which is what determines capacity. I don't understand what you're arguing for. Do want less terrain open?



Huh? If anyone can make sense of what Sno just said please fill me in. Thanks!

I have no narrative here, Sno. Obviously WF has some basis on which they justified releasing more lift ticket, whereas Gore is still currently limiting general sales to M-F non holiday. Apparently, to those as enlightened as you, it’s obvious that it has nothing to do with open trails or lifts? What then, pray tell us morons, is the reason?



snoloco said:


> I'm arguing that Lookout is extremely important and should not be written off like you and DB support. That terrain is a big part of what keeps me coming back to Whiteface year after year after year.


I haven’t written anything off. I’ve said multiple times that nothing would surprise me. That said, D.B.’s speculation that WF might not spend the money required to get Lookout open, in the midst of a challenging financial season, isn’t entirely crazy.

Sure, you want it. I guess we are all in this together, except Sno, who should get Lookout, even though it’s not needed to spread the non-existent crowds, because that is what keeps him coming back.

That said, I hope we get it too, but if we don’t it’s not the end of the world, although I’m sure you’ll have some reason why it obviously is....


----------



## NorEaster27

We all know sno is obsessed with lookout, we do this dance every year


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> I have no narrative here, Sno. Obviously WF has some basis on which they justified releasing more lift ticket, whereas Gore is still currently limiting general sales to M-F non holiday. Apparently, to those as enlightened as you, it’s obvious that it has nothing to do with open trails or lifts? What then, pray tell us morons, is the reason?


It pretty obviously has to do with demand. Gore has seen a ton of spillover from Vermont due to travel restrictions. ORDA pass sales are up this season, and while passes are valid at all 3, I believe much of that increase is people who are primarily visiting Gore. Despite having far more acreage and lift capacity, they are still unable to meet the demand.

None of this has to do with the fact that you and DB are out of your minds for thinking they shouldn't open Lookout. 

I have no hard feelings on Whiteface at this time. I'm not boycotting it. I skied there 2 weeks ago. They're going to do what they're going to do, and I'll make next year's pass decision based on that. Looking at the current weather forecast, I strongly believe they will make a move for Lookout in the next week or so. There is no warm up or unfavorable pattern in sight.

While this is just speculation, I don't believe the snowmaking budget was cut at any of the ORDA mountains, nor are they close to hitting whatever it is. They had so few opportunities to make snow in November and December that they probably saved money.


----------



## JTG

If you say so, Sno, you must be right.


----------



## Brownski

I don’t get to WF all that much but I would never make a decision to go or not based on Lookout‘s status. Skyward maybe.


----------



## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> If you say so, Sno, you must be right.


Just be glad your kids aren't like the little bastard we have on here


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> None of this has to do with the fact that you and DB are out of your minds for thinking they shouldn't open Lookout.


Didn't say that. Said I can understand. 'Course I look at this from a private sector mind set.


snoloco said:


> While this is just speculation,


There's a legit acronym for estimating in the field in which I work. WAG. Wild ass guess. You just joined speculation club after giving me a hard time about the other day. ?


snoloco said:


> They had so few opportunities to make snow in November and December that they probably saved money.


Two sides to the equation, though. The money-coming-in side didn't fare as well as usual. Therefore, changes to the product and/or increase the deficit/debt.


----------



## x10003q

Lookout Mountain is the Burnt Ridge of Whiteface.


----------



## Kingslug

Theyre making snow on Lies and Rumor..thats a good thing. This is my first season skiing Gore..really like it..even though its a 4 hour drive each way. My go to Mt used to be Hunter..
Now I just have to get up to WF. Been a while..


----------



## JTG

How often (and for how long) do you make the 4 hour drive to Gore? It’s three and a half for me to WF, which I gladly do for a weekend and will even do for the occasional day trip if there is a dump or The Slides are open.


----------



## Kingslug

I started by doing day trips. Now I book a motel by Schroon lake for 100 bucks and do friday saturday. Almost every week lately. Hunter got very crowded and the west side did not open. We have a place at Stowe and an epic pass..but thats difficult these days. Also hit Belleayre and Plattekill. Whatever it takes to ski. And since no west or Europe trips..Money to be spent here. You can ski a whole season here for the cost of one Europe trip.


----------



## Face4Me

According to this morning's conditions report, Essex is FINALLY getting some love along with Lower Skyward. Looks like they're also doing a lot of "touch up" around the mountain. Could be a final "push" to "top off" the main mountain this week before moving to Lookout, or, maybe they've decided not to blow over there. I guess we'll know for sure within the next few days.

Also, it's been snowing here in Lake Placid pretty much all week since the big storm on Saturday. About 1 - 3 inches each day ... things are looking VERY good for this weekend! Hoping we don't run into any snags!


----------



## Kingslug

If you havent seen it yet TGR flic "Made back East " pretty cool.


----------



## Face4Me

Kingslug said:


> If you havent seen it yet TGR flic "Made back East " pretty cool.


The other really good one, for those who may not have seen it, is "Promised Land: Whiteface Slides".


----------



## Face4Me

I had planned on going over to the mountain this morning and doing 3 or 4 runs, then getting on the Summit Quad for 2 runs on Skyward, after which I would have to leave to get home so I could get to work. As usual, when you plan something that involves Whiteface, you should plan on being disappointed.

I got there early and unexpectedly ran into a friend ... things were looking up ... I'd have someone to ski with for the morning. We went over to the lifts at about 8:20. There was already a decent line at the gondola, so we decided we'd get on the Face Lift so we wouldn't have to wait. Conditions were very good (except "Tower 10 Hill" on Lower Valley). As we skied past the Little Whiteface chair, we realized that it wouldn't be running today (there was no one over there), so we went back to the base. There was still no line at the Face Lift, so we went back up, rather than waiting on line for the gondola. 

We decided to ski over to the Freeway lift, getting there just as they opened it, and took a run on Mountain Run. Conditions were very good. We went back over to take another run. At this point, there was a small line forming (there were a lot of racers at the mountain) and the chair was running REALLY slow. We took another run on Mountain Run and then went back to the base, figuring we'd take the Face lift to the Summit quad and get our runs in on Skyward. When we got to the base, the lines at the gondola and the Face lift were VERY long. We finally got on the chair and when we got to the top, we saw the reason the lines were so long at the base. The Summit quad was still not running! 

At this point, it was close to 10:00, and I realized that I wasn't going to be able to get to the top today. I thought about going back to the Freeway lift for another run over there, but at this point, I was so frustrated, I gave up and went home.


----------



## JTG

Any obvious reasons for the Summit Quad not running, like wind? 

Didn’t take much to get Essex open, I bet Lower Sky is ready soon as well. We’ll see if they transition to Wilmington after that....


----------



## Face4Me

JTG said:


> Any obvious reasons for the Summit Quad not running, like wind?



We were told that they had to move some hoses and some other things. Unsure how long it will be. Whiteface isn't very good at many things ... except making excuses. They still had the guns going on Lower Skyward.


JTG said:


> We’ll see if they transition to Wilmington after that....


I heard that they're not planning to open Lookout Mountain this year, but that was based on second hand information.


----------



## JTG

Face4Me said:


> I heard that they're not planning to open Lookout Mountain this year, but that was based on second hand information.


Ummm....did you confirm that with the gospel according to Sno? I mean, any other speculation than his is pure fool’s errand! Really man, don’t be a moron!!!


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> I had planned on going over to the mountain this morning and doing 3 or 4 runs, then getting on the Summit Quad for 2 runs on Skyward, after which I would have to leave to get home so I could get to work. As usual, when you plan something that involves Whiteface, you should plan on being disappointed.



LMAO!
You ever bump into HighPeaksDrifter? I miss that guy, super nice, and one cool cat.


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> LMAO!
> You ever bump into HighPeaksDrifter? I miss that guy, super nice, and one cool cat.


Yes I do ... Talked to him a few weeks ago ... Definitely an awesome guy! 

He's taking this winter off from skiing ... doing the golf thing in a Southern location.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Good for him

Is he down with JackTheRipper? I hope so.


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> Good for him
> 
> Is he down with JackTheRipper? I hope so.


Same general area, but not with him.


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> Ummm....did you confirm that with the gospel according to Sno? I mean, any other speculation than his is pure fool’s errand! Really man, don’t be a moron!!!


So you don't want it to open so you can win an internet argument. You're crazy. My position is clear. You tell me if they're opening Lookout, and I'll tell you where I'm getting a pass next year.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> I'll tell you where I'm getting a pass next year.


Nobody cares where you're getting a pass next year


----------



## D.B. Cooper

JTG said:


> I bet Lower Sky is ready soon as well. We’ll see if they transition to Wilmington after that....


Lower Sky open to Glen/Weber's.
A mix of ground guns and those HKD orange headed guns below Glen. Those orange guns don't put out anything. They're close to the woods, too, so probably 20% of the snow ends up on trees.

Lookout will open, but only for people with a Ski4 pass. I don't think Sno has one. ?


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> So you don't want it to open so you can win an internet argument. You're crazy. My position is clear. You tell me if they're opening Lookout, and I'll tell you where I'm getting a pass next year.


Sno, Sno, Sno.....it ain’t about winning or losing some pointless “argument” on the internet. Do I want Lookout to open? Hell, yes. Given the circumstances will I understand if it doesn’t? Sure. Will it be the biggest of our first world problems when/if it doesn’t? Listening to you some would think so. Now THAT is cra-cra!

Really, from a Lookout opening perspective I hope I “lose”, and it opens. The only thing I hope to “win” here is that maybe, just maybe, you take a step back and evaluate your generally abrasive, one track, ‘can’t see the forest for the trees’ online demeanor. Your a good kid, and we all have growing up to do (no matter what age we are). Just sayin’....

My son just got an acceptance to Clarkson. Not highest on his list and he’s been doing well with merit scholarship money elsewhere, so we’ll see if Clarkson stays in the running. However, I would be interested in your opinion on the place, overall, if you cared to share.


----------



## snoloco

Your argument on everything is "sno is entitled". I pay for all my own skiing, so that's false.

As for Clarkson, that's not really for the conditions thread, but if you want to start your own thread about it, I'll reply there.


----------



## 3dogs

@whiteface gondi,little whiteface lifts not running at this time.Took me 4lifts and 35 minutes to get to mid, started at bear den
This sucks


----------



## Face4Me

3dogs said:


> @whiteface gondi,little whiteface lifts not running at this time.Took me 4lifts and 35 minutes to get to mid, started at bear den
> This sucks


Cue the music ... "I Got You Babe ... "

Yes ... DDSS ... Different Day ... Same Shit


----------



## DanS

There was a very long line at facelift and no upper lifts were open, so we left after two runs. Much too cold to wait around outside for the potential of lifts opening. If not for COVID I probably would hang out in the lodge and wait, but as it stands we are hitting up the xc trails.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Apparently windy at the top, at least according to a patroller I spoke with. Also heard some grumblings about lack of lifties.


----------



## tirolski

D.B. Cooper said:


> Also heard some grumblings about lack of lifties.


Not bragging, but I say "thank you" nearly everytime I get on a lift, for what’s that worth.


----------



## DanS

Did anyone ski WF today? I thought about it, but the website said the lifts were on hold again in the morning. Bummer of a weekend, especially if you had pre-purchased day tickets.


----------



## Face4Me

DanS said:


> Did anyone ski WF today? I thought about it, but the website said the lifts were on hold again in the morning. Bummer of a weekend, especially if you had pre-purchased day tickets.


VERY windy at higher elevations today. Someone I know almost got blown off the Face Lift right before the unloading area ... wind came down on top of his skis and almost pulled him right off the chair. They shut it down shortly after that.

I went to the top of the Freeway chair for one run ... the section of Mountain Run where you traverse across from the Freeway chair was completely wind-scoured. Traversed over to Wilderness ... the top of that was more of the same ... continued across to McKenzie ... the middle section was awesome ... the snow had all blown in on skier's left ... but from 1900 Road and below, big bumps with wind scoured crust in between.

Another rough day at the Face.


----------



## snoloco

I wonder what the lines looked like. I'm not sure if it was done, but I believe the right thing to do this year on days when lift operations are likely to be limited, is to allow people to change or cancel their pre purchased tickets. It improves safety by preventing overcrowding in lift lines for the open lifts, or in the lodges. The lodges simply can't accommodate everyone who needs to warm up on these super cold days.


----------



## Face4Me

Finally!!! A good day a Whiteface!

After getting skunked the last three days, I decided to try one more time. Instead of going over first thing, I waited at home and watched the new mid-station webcam. I had been told yesterday that they were planning to run the Little Whiteface chair today. Once I was able to confirm via the webcam that they were in fact loading that chair, I headed over. (More on this below)

Conditions were excellent on everything I skied. Good, East coast packed powder, with some loose granular on top was the order of the day. The only real issue today was visibility. The entire time I was there, the summit was in the clouds. Visibility was very poor up there. There were very few people riding to the top, and I was skiing alone. Given the lack of people and the poor visibility, I decided not to try Skyward. (Without going into details, I had a very nasty fall a couple of years ago. Fortunately, I wasn't skiing alone, and one of the guys I was with was able to help me ... Ever since then, I'm a LOT more cautious when I ski alone, about putting myself into situations where I could possibly not be found for a while.) The snow on Paron's Run was excellent, so it was a lot of fun, in spite of the bad visibility. Upper Wilderness was also really good. 

I only skied for about 2 and a half hours, but this was by far my best day of the season.

Regarding the Little Whiteface chair ... Normally, Whiteface doesn't run the Little Whiteface chair during the week, relying on the gondola to provide access to the top of Little Whiteface. Typically, the Freeway chair is operating during the week, so for those who want to be able to ski Mountain Run, Lower Wilderness and Lower McKenzie, you can ride that chair. If however, you want to get back to the top of Little Whiteface to have access to that part of the mountain, you're stuck going down to the gondola and riding that back up. In a normal year, this is a nuisance, but it's not the "end of the world".

In the COVID-19 world, however, the problem with this is that the gondola is only operating at about 25 - 50% capacity (8 person cabins are only typically carrying fewer than 4 passengers), meaning very long lines & waits to get back to the top. It seems to me, they would be MUCH better off running the Little Whiteface chair instead of the gondola, if they can't run both due to staffing issues or economics. At least the Little Whiteface chair would be able to run at close to 100% of its capacity. This would be a much better solution, because as it stands now, there's almost no point to skiing Whiteface right now if the Little Whiteface chair is not running.


----------



## snoloco

I believe this was actually done the Thursday and Friday before MLK Weekend. They didn't run the gondola and ran the LWF chair instead. It is more efficient because it splits the out of base traffic and the traffic lapping the upper mountain. That way the Facelift and LWF chair are evenly utilized. If the gondola is running, then both try to ride that, causing a line, while the Facelift is mostly empty.

The problem with this is that the gondola is their main lift and if they don't run it, they're going to get lots of complaints. We go through this issue every spring of which lift is better to run. It makes more sense to run LWF, but they often end up running the gondola for the reason I mentioned.


----------



## 3dogs

The Mountain Run lift needs repair or replaced. Would solve lots of problems with winds.


----------



## tirolski

ORDA board approved $ for modernizations to facelift chair and cloud splitter Gondi in their Jan 22nd meeting.


----------



## ADKmike

tirolski said:


> ORDA board approved $ for modernizations to facelift chair and cloud splitter Gondi in their Jan 22nd meeting.


Modernizations? They currently seem pretty modern. What’s that all about


----------



## tirolski

ADKmike said:


> Modernizations? They currently seem pretty modern. What’s that all about


DakMike, check out the verbiage in video I posted. It’s 37 min mark. Not a whole lot of discussion if I remember.


----------



## Ripitz

JTG said:


> first world problems


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Lower Skyward open. No guns going, but surprisingly dry whalebacks. Snowmaking has been very wet this year....to the point where I either avoid guns or anticipate a double ejection.

As is the theme this year, strange assortment of snowmaking. Guns scattered all over; they don't really seem to blast one run full-on and move. 3 guns on Lower Parkway, another 3 on Summit Express, 1 or 2 on Excelsior etc. It's a pain when LWF or Freeway chairs are closed. The gondola is really inefficient when you're loading 1, 2, or 3 people per car.


----------



## tirolski

D.B. Cooper said:


> As is the theme this year, strange assortment of snowmaking. Guns scattered all over; they don't really seem to blast one run full-on and move. 3 guns on Lower Parkway, another 3 on Summit Express, 1 or 2 on Excelsior etc.


Is it just touch ups, like makeup or do the really need the base in those places?


----------



## Grillman

They seem to open trails when the snow is side to side. Last weekend was a bear with the wind. Last Friday afternoon was a nice treat. I know that this saturday will be cold. I hope the wind stays away. Skiing should be good at the Face. 

Hoping that i see a cloud of snow being made on Lookout Mtn. We will see.


----------



## JTG

Grillman!! My boys were wondering what you think of the new mid-lodge.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

tirolski said:


> Is it just touch ups, like makeup or do the really need the base in those places?


Meh....don't think so.


----------



## Grillman

JTG, love the new lodge- will love it more post covid. Great views- a cement deck. It should be a great place to relax when we are through this pandemic.


----------



## Harvey

I like it too.


----------



## DanS

Hmm, given the lack of conditions reports I surmise that it wasn’t crowded and the lift line were short. Looking forward to tomorrow!


----------



## Face4Me

Conditions were very good today. A few weird spots here & there, but overall, I thought it was really good. Skiers left side on Upper Wilderness was the highlight of the day for me. 

The only major issue was the cold early in the morning, and then the Summit Quad went down from about 10:00 until around 11:30. The lines at the other lifts got REALLY long. Once the Summit Quad reopened, the line there was crazy for a while, but at least the lines went down everywhere else.

On another note, for those who care, they were blowing snow at the bottom of the Wilmington Trail, and from what I was told, they will start blowing the entire thing this week.


----------



## snoloco

They just can't seem to have weekend without lift problems can they? Good news on Wilmington.


----------



## DanS

Cold, but not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Absolutely beautiful views from the summit.

Crowded, regarding both lift lines and trails. A lot of people skiing faster than appropriate for their ability level. More people than on previous trips doing a poor job of adhering to mask rules.

It seemed that pretty much everything was groomed (disappointing for my kids). Victoria had bumps on the side, which were really good at the top, and kinda meh at the bottom. Off Broadway also had five or six bump turns.

the groomed trails were OK I guess, definitely better the higher you were. There were some serious slick spots that I saw cause a lot of crashes. I am not a fan of cruising groomers while being paranoid that some unguided missile is going to wreck someone in my family.


----------



## Grillman

DanS said:


> Cold, but not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Absolutely beautiful views from the summit.
> 
> Crowded, regarding both lift lines and trails. A lot of people skiing faster than appropriate for their ability level. More people than on previous trips doing a poor job of adhering to mask rules.
> 
> It seemed that pretty much everything was groomed (disappointing for my kids). Victoria had bumps on the side, which were really good at the top, and kinda meh at the bottom. Off Broadway also had five or six bump turns.
> 
> the groomed trails were OK I guess, definitely better the higher you were. There were some serious slick spots that I saw cause a lot of crashes. I am not a fan of cruising groomers while being paranoid that some unguided missile is going to wreck someone in my family.


speaking of strange grooming, what did you think of the "wall" left by snowmakers at the last turn of Excelsior? You are correct about the speadsters.


----------



## Face4Me

Grillman said:


> speaking of strange grooming, what did you think of the "wall" left by snowmakers at the last turn of Excelsior? You are correct about the speadsters.


That was insane!!! I hadn't taken Excelsior all day until my final run ... I was moving along at a pretty good clip and came around that turn and saw it ... I had to put the brakes on big time!!! I was really surprised that they didn't have any kind of warning, like a "SLOW" sign or something, before the turn.


----------



## Grillman

Face4Me said:


> That was insane!!! I hadn't taken Excelsior all day until my final run ... I was moving along at a pretty good clip and came around that turn and saw it ... I had to put the brakes on big time!!! I was really surprised that they didn't have any kind of warning, like a "SLOW" sign or something, before the turn.


My last run too. Northway to lower to emmas drop, to round the corner and wow


----------



## Moe

On the subject of strange grooming we were disappointed about the lack of headwall on Niagara. Seems like they have that groomed pretty tame. 

Overall can't believe how much snow they have blown on through the valley. Looks like the new pumps are finally paying off.


----------



## Face4Me

Nor-Easters and Whiteface ... Half the snow and twice the wind!!!

That said, I had an awesome morning at the mountain. When I woke up, there was about 3-4 inches on my car in Lake Placid, but the wind was blowing quite a bit. I debated going over or not, but ultimately decided to give it a shot.

They were not running the Gondola today (this was planned) and were running the Little Whiteface lift instead, which, as I've mentioned before, in the COVID era makes a lot of sense in my opinion.

I was on the Face Lift right when it opened and skied right over to the Little Whiteface chair via Broadway. They must have groomed it this morning, because there was only about an inch or so of snow on top.

When I got to the Little Whiteface chair, it wasn't running yet. Apparently, they were waiting for one of the lifties to get there. Once he loaded, they opened the line a few chairs later and off we went. A lot of people got off at the mid-station, and I could see that there were only 6 people on the chair in front of me. I immediately decided to ski Approach to Upper Wilderness to Lower McKenzie, figuring, that would be the least travelled route to that point ... I was right!!! 

When I got to Upper Wilderness, there was only one set of tracks on it, obviously ski patrol doing trail check. It was unbelievable ... I'd guess about 6 - 8 inches, maybe more where the wind deposits were, of untouched powder. When I cut over to McKenzie, it was more of the same ... only one other track, and again, plenty of untouched powder all for me. It was one of the best runs I've taken in a very long time!!!




I went back over to the Little Whiteface chair to do another run. The wind at the upper elevations was very strong, especially right near the mid-station, and then again at the top. When I got to the top, I asked a ski patroller if the Summit Quad was open, and he said that it was closed due to wind. He also suggested that I hurry to get another run on the Little Whiteface chair, because that would probably be closing too. I decided to do a repeat of my first run. When I got to the base of the chair, it was still running, so I jumped on again. This time, the wind was even worse than the previous ride.

When I got to the top, I figured the chair was probably going to be done, so I decided to ski Upper Northway. The top was completely wind blown, but about mid-way down, there was a ton of snow blown in on the left side of the trail. I was figuring that would be the end of my morning. When I got to where I could see the Summit Quad, I saw that they were loading it!!! I went over and got on. 

The wind at the top was crazy ... I couldn't believe they were running the chair. I decided to ski Paron's Run, figuring that might have less traffic than Skyward. The top of Paron's was completely wind-blown, but once you got down a ways, it was much better. I made my way down Victoria, and I could see that they were still loading the chair, so I went back over. This time, I skied Skyward. Once again, the top section of the trail was totally wind-blown. Once you got down to about the ladies downhill start building, it was much better. There was a ton of wind-blown snow on the left side. I followed it down to Lower Skyward which was very good, though the snow was pretty "cut up". Luckily for me, when I got to the base of the lift, they were still loading. By now, the wind, especially at the top, was howling. When I unloaded, a patroller had just come out of the shack at the top, and he told me they had just closed the lift. I decided to ski Paron's Run again, so that I could get to On Ramp and get another run on Lower McKenzie. Lower Mac was still in great shape!!!

At that point, will all the lift closures, and considering what a great morning I had, I decided to call it a day and head home. 

I'm sure we didn't get as much snow as the Cats, but I was very lucky with my timing this morning and was fortunate to get in an awesome morning of skiing.

Looking forward to reading the reports later today from down South!


----------



## Grillman

Face4Me said:


> Nor-Easters and Whiteface ... Half the snow and twice the wind!!!
> 
> That said, I had an awesome morning at the mountain. When I woke up, there was about 3-4 inches on my car in Lake Placid, but the wind was blowing quite a bit. I debated going over or not, but ultimately decided to give it a shot.
> 
> They were not running the Gondola today (this was planned) and were running the Little Whiteface lift instead, which, as I've mentioned before, in the COVID era makes a lot of sense in my opinion.
> 
> I was on the Face Lift right when it opened and skied right over to the Little Whiteface chair via Broadway. They must have groomed it this morning, because there was only about an inch or so of snow on top.
> 
> When I got to the Little Whiteface chair, it wasn't running yet. Apparently, they were waiting for one of the lifties to get there. Once he loaded, they opened the line a few chairs later and off we went. A lot of people got off at the mid-station, and I could see that there were only 6 people on the chair in front of me. I immediately decided to ski Approach to Upper Wilderness to Lower McKenzie, figuring, that would be the least travelled route to that point ... I was right!!!
> 
> When I got to Upper Wilderness, there was only one set of tracks on it, obviously ski patrol doing trail check. It was unbelievable ... I'd guess about 6 - 8 inches, maybe more where the wind deposits were, of untouched powder. When I cut over to McKenzie, it was more of the same ... only one other track, and again, plenty of untouched powder all for me. It was one of the best runs I've taken in a very long time!!!
> 
> View attachment 7852
> I went back over to the Little Whiteface chair to do another run. The wind at the upper elevations was very strong, especially right near the mid-station, and then again at the top. When I got to the top, I asked a ski patroller if the Summit Quad was open, and he said that it was closed due to wind. He also suggested that I hurry to get another run on the Little Whiteface chair, because that would probably be closing too. I decided to do a repeat of my first run. When I got to the base of the chair, it was still running, so I jumped on again. This time, the wind was even worse than the previous ride.
> 
> When I got to the top, I figured the chair was probably going to be done, so I decided to ski Upper Northway. The top was completely wind blown, but about mid-way down, there was a ton of snow blown in on the left side of the trail. I was figuring that would be the end of my morning. When I got to where I could see the Summit Quad, I saw that they were loading it!!! I went over and got on.
> 
> The wind at the top was crazy ... I couldn't believe they were running the chair. I decided to ski Paron's Run, figuring that might have less traffic than Skyward. The top of Paron's was completely wind-blown, but once you got down a ways, it was much better. I made my way down Victoria, and I could see that they were still loading the chair, so I went back over. This time, I skied Skyward. Once again, the top section of the trail was totally wind-blown. Once you got down to about the ladies downhill start building, it was much better. There was a ton of wind-blown snow on the left side. I followed it down to Lower Skyward which was very good, though the snow was pretty "cut up". Luckily for me, when I got to the base of the lift, they were still loading. By now, the wind, especially at the top, was howling. When I unloaded, a patroller had just come out of the shack at the top, and he told me they had just closed the lift. I decided to ski Paron's Run again, so that I could get to On Ramp and get another run on Lower McKenzie. Lower Mac was still in great shape!!!
> 
> At that point, will all the lift closures, and considering what a great morning I had, I decided to call it a day and head home.
> 
> I'm sure we didn't get as much snow as the Cats, but I was very lucky with my timing this morning and was fortunate to get in an awesome morning of skiing.
> 
> Looking forward to reading the reports later today from down South!


My son Brendan had the same morning as you did. I am a bit jealous of the two of you. Will be back up on friday- hoping to stay through Monday.


----------



## DanS

Face4Me said:


> I'd guess about 6 - 8 inches, maybe more where the wind deposits were, of untouched powder. When I cut over to McKenzie, it was more of the same ... only one other track, and again, plenty of untouched powder all for me. It was one of the best runs I've taken in a very long time!!!


Sounds awesome!!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Face4Me said:


> Nor-Easters and Whiteface ... Half the snow and twice the wind!!!


Ha! looking Forward to going for a rip on Empire. It's gotta open soon.


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> Ha! looking Forward to going for a rip on Empire. It's gotta open soon.


Not sure about that ... the wind direction was coming right up Empire ... as you skied Approach, when you approached (no pun intended) Empire, there was a huge "gap" in the snow on Approach caused by the wind tearing up the slope from Empire ... It's hard to imagine there could be any snow left on Empire itself, at least not at the top!


----------



## Face4Me

So, after having such a great morning yesterday, I decided to tempt fate, and try it again today ... As a veteran of Whiteface incompetence, I really should have known better.

I got to the mountain early, booted up and headed over to the Face Lift corral. Once again, they had planned to run the Little Whiteface chair instead of the Gondola today, which normally, would be a great plan ... assuming you can actually get to the Little Whiteface chair.

There were mechanical problems at the Face Lift ... After a while, they announced that they had opened the Freeway Chair, so a large chunk of the people in the Face Lift corrals made their way across to the Bear Lift to get to the Freeway Chair. Given the time constraints I was under (needed to leave by 10:00 for work), I decided it would be an awful lot of time and effort to wait in the 2 lines I would have to wait in, just to get to the Little Whiteface chair to wait in a third line, so I stayed at the Face Lift. At 9:05, it was time to give it up and go home.

As always, when your plans involve Whiteface, you should plan on being disappointed.


----------



## Ripitz

Face4Me said:


> As always, when your plans involve Whiteface, you should plan on being disappointed.


?


----------



## tirolski

Face4Me said:


> As a veteran of Whiteface incompetence, I really should have known better.
> I got to the mountain early, booted up and headed over to the Face Lift corral.
> I decided it would be an awful lot of time and effort to wait in the 2 lines I would have to wait in, just to get to the Little Whiteface chair to wait in a third line, so I stayed at the Face Lift. At 9:05, it was time to give it up and go home.


Sounds like ya can’t get there from there.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Face4Me said:


> So, after having such a great morning yesterday, I decided to tempt fate, and try it again today ... As a veteran of Whiteface incompetence, I really should have known better.


To save time in your updates, Face, how about just checking one box in each of these columns:


*Snow**Infrastructure**Visibility**Crowds*At least 6" fresh snow!All lifts in operationCould see into CanadaNobody therePerfect corduroyWind hold (and hold and hold)Could see PalefaceWalk-on lift linesWind blownEmployee(s) didn't show upCould see the base10 min. waitWet snow gunsMechanical issueCould see 3 towers ahead8:30 gondola line"Zamboni-fresh"Power failureCould see f*** allPresident's Week


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> To save time in your updates, Face, how about just checking one box in each of these columns:
> 
> 
> *Snow**Infrastructure**Visibility**Crowds*At least 6" fresh snow!All lifts in operationCould see into CanadaNobody therePerfect corduroyWind hold (and hold and hold)Could see PalefaceWalk-on lift linesWind blownEmployee(s) didn't show upCould see the base10 min. waitWet snow gunsMechanical issueCould see 3 towers ahead8:30 gondola line"Zamboni-fresh"Power failureCould see f*** allPresident's Week


That's awesome ... Though in the interest of full disclosure, it took me a minute to figure it out ... at first I thought it was a cross-reference based on the "Snow" column!!!


----------



## ADKmike

How's the 18" + 2" more per the snow report holding up? I'd imagine a lot was windblown to the usual spots...but I'd think things are looking pretty good heading into the weekend? I'll be up there sat/sun...maybe gore Friday afternoon tbd


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> How's the 18" + 2" more per the snow report holding up? I'd imagine a lot was windblown to the usual spots...but I'd think things are looking pretty good heading into the weekend? I'll be up there sat/sun...maybe gore Friday afternoon tbd


Unlike yesterday, I had an awesome morning today. 

Unfortunately, they made the decision to run the gondola today instead of the Little Whiteface chair, so I never made it to the top of Little Whiteface ... gondola line is just too long and slow when they're only loading 2 - 3 people per cabin.

Anyway, all of the groomed trails were fantastic ... Upper/Lower Valley, Boreen, Lower Parkway (because the closed it for race training) ... perfect packed powder ... some of the best snow I've skied at Whiteface in a very long time.

When they opened the Summit Quad, I was near the front of the corral and got on pretty early. Skyward, Niagara and Lower Skyward were UNBELIEVABLE!!! There was so much snow blown in on the sides, I've never seen anything like it. Unfortunately, I had my 93's with me instead of my 100's, but I still had a blast. I only got 2 runs on the Summit because I had to leave to get to work, but they were two fantastic runs!!!


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> Unlike yesterday, I had an awesome morning today.
> 
> Unfortunately, they made the decision to run the gondola today instead of the Little Whiteface chair, so I never made it to the top of Little Whiteface ... gondola line is just too long and slow when they're only loading 2 - 3 people per cabin.
> 
> Anyway, all of the groomed trails were fantastic ... Upper/Lower Valley, Boreen, Lower Parkway (because the closed it for race training) ... perfect packed powder ... some of the best snow I've skied at Whiteface in a very long time.
> 
> When they opened the Summit Quad, I was near the front of the corral and got on pretty early. Skyward, Niagara and Lower Skyward were UNBELIEVABLE!!! There was so much snow blown in on the sides, I've never seen anything like it. Unfortunately, I had my 93's with me instead of my 100's, but I still had a blast. I only got 2 runs on the Summit because I had to leave to get to work, but they were two fantastic runs!!!


So the 18 + 2 is legit you'd say? Was surprised when I saw the report...didn't think way north was getting that much.


----------



## Tjf1967

Oh whiteface. You have the


ADKmike said:


> So the 18 + 2 is legit you'd say? Was surprised when I saw the report...didn't think way north was getting that much.


They got that much. It blew off of the summit and landed across the street.


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> So the 18 + 2 is legit you'd say? Was surprised when I saw the report...didn't think way north was getting that much.


Hard to say for sure, because there's been so much wind, but there's definitely a lot of snow ... not quite sure about 18 + 2, but probably not too far from that. I didn't venture into the trees at all, or Upper Cloud, or anything like that. Looking at Hoyt's High from the Face Lift, it looked like it could probably be skied on the natural snow. Also, there were tracks under the Freeway chair ... There was plenty of snow there. Lower Mac had plenty of snow on it, though there were a lot of "push piles" ... As I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't get to the top of Little Whiteface, so no idea how Essex, Upper Northway and that part of the mountain was.


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> Hard to say for sure, because there's been so much wind, but there's definitely a lot of snow ... not quite sure about 18 + 2, but probably not too far from that. I didn't venture into the trees at all, or Upper Cloud, or anything like that. Looking at Hoyt's High from the Face Lift, it looked like it could probably be skied on the natural snow. Also, there were tracks under the Freeway chair ... There was plenty of snow there. Lower Mac had plenty of snow on it, though there were a lot of "push piles" ... As I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't get to the top of Little Whiteface, so no idea how Essex, Upper Northway and that part of the mountain was.


Sounds pretty promising...maybe some light snow this wknd too


----------



## Tjf1967

ADKmike said:


> Sounds pretty promising...maybe some light snow this wknd too


I bet the sugar valley glades are full.


----------



## DanS

Having never skied them, where do the sugar valley glades exit? From the trail map it looks like flying squirrel at bear den.


----------



## Ripitz

There’s a little drainage with a track that funnels you back to the Wilmington trail. If you cross it you can get a little bonus that dumps you at the top of the triple


----------



## ADKmike

Tjf1967 said:


> I bet the sugar valley glades are full.


Been in there once years ago - can’t remember seeing them open in years. Maybe I missed it...seems like they don’t get talked about much


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

Skied the face. 

It was terrific as always. My only complaint is that, with the Lookout chair not running and my partner's not completely unfounded reluctance to go inside a gondola, there's only one summit available. I felt like I was doing laps when I really wanted to be exploring. I completely understand not running the Little Whiteface chair for financial reasons on weekdays when the gondola takes you to the same spot but I can't help but think that a lot of folks want to get to other peaks and can't. Could be just me.


----------



## tirolski

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> Skied the face.
> 
> It was terrific as always. My only complaint is that, ... I can't help but think that a lot of folks want to get to other peaks and can't. Could be just me.


No, It’s just another "can’t get there from there” thing.


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

Anyone know if they’re working on getting the Lookout area (Hoyt’s, Lookout Below, Wilmington) opened up?


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## JTG

As per the snow report, they are making snow and working hard to get Wilmington open as soon as possible....


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## D.B. Cooper

Given that it's the only trail on the report with snowmaking, and that making snow on W takes all the power they have, I would think they are serious. I can't tell by looking from the road.


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## Yukon Cornelius

Trusting the snow report can be dicey. Appreciate the input, fellas.


----------



## Cork

Yukon Cornelius said:


> Trusting the snow report can be dicey. Appreciate the input, fellas.


They had started blowing lower Wilmington a week ago Sunday, and they were still blowing this past Sunday. With the current weather, I would say it "should be" open this weekend.


----------



## JTG

Yukon Cornelius said:


> Trusting the snow report can be dicey. Appreciate the input, fellas.


I hear ya. I never trust that trails they list as open on the snow report will actually be open. However, when it comes to indicating where it is they are making snow I think it’s pretty accurate. They’ve also done a good job in the narrative discussing where the snowmaking efforts have been focused, which has been accurate. Hoping Wilmington is open this weekend!


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## Face4Me

JTG said:


> I hear ya. I never trust that trails they list as open on the snow report will actually be open. However, when it comes to indicating where it is they are making snow I think it’s pretty accurate. They’ve also done a good job in the narrative discussing where the snowmaking efforts have been focused, which has been accurate. Hoping Wilmington is open this weekend!


As has been explained to me several times, the snow report provides "Anticipated Conditions" ... 



With regard to indicating snowmaking, I often find, that they sometimes mislead with that, especially in the early part of the season. For example, they may say that they're making snow on a trail, however, when you go to the mountain, you find that the reality is that there's one or two guns, pointed at a trail, as opposed to snowmaking on the entire trail.

They do the same sort of thing on their Facebook page ... They'll put up a post saying what a great day it is, when in reality, the lifts aren't running due to wind, mechanical failure or whatever ... they've been getting beat up pretty bad on the Facebook page this year with that sort of thing ... HONESTY goes a long way with customers! I'm not a marketing person, but I've got to believe that when you say things that are clearly not in touch with reality, you damage your relationship with your customers.

As for the Wilmington Trail, I'd be REALLY surprised if it isn't open this weekend. They've been blowing snow on it for about a week now, and with the natural snow in addition to that, I've got to believe it will be ready for the weekend. The bigger question is Hoyt's High ... I assume they will not be blowing snow on it this year, but is there enough natural snow on it to open it for a day or two? I did see one track on it as I passed by on Sunday afternoon ... from what I could see, it looked pretty good!!! I'm guessing that won't happen, but there's always hope!

As for conditions overall ... This past weekend was very good. On Sunday, I didn't actually get out until after 1:00. I wasn't even planning to go, but I heard from some friends that conditions were still good, even at lunchtime, so I decided to give it a shot. I couldn't believe how good conditions were, all the way up until 4:00. There was definitely good skiing to be found. 

"Middle" Parkway was awesome ... The snowmaking on that section of the trail hasn't worked for years, so it's not open very often, but it was this weekend. It's amazing how much different it is to ski on all natural snow versus man-made. By the time I had gotten over there, the race they were running on Upper Thruway and Drapers had ended, so I was able to take the Little Whiteface chair to the mid, ski the top of Mountain Run or Upper Parkway to "middle" Parkway, and then cut across Thruway to Calamity Lane and back to the lift ... breathe ... repeat!

They had also opened Upper McKenzie, which was also really good for the most part. The headwall was a little thin, but you could certainly find a way through it. Unfortunately, Lower Mac wasn't quite as good ... there were some huge moguls on it, but it was down to the base in between them. Upper & Lower Skyward were also really good. I was really surprised that I could get so much good skiing in on a Sunday afternoon from 1:00 - 4:00!!!


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> As has been explained to me several times, the snow report provides "Anticipated Conditions" ...
> View attachment 8068
> With regard to indicating snowmaking, I often find, that they sometimes mislead with that, especially in the early part of the season. For example, they may say that they're making snow on a trail, however, when you go to the mountain, you find that the reality is that there's one or two guns, pointed at a trail, as opposed to snowmaking on the entire trail.
> 
> They do the same sort of thing on their Facebook page ... They'll put up a post saying what a great day it is, when in reality, the lifts aren't running due to wind, mechanical failure or whatever ... they've been getting beat up pretty bad on the Facebook page this year with that sort of thing ... HONESTY goes a long way with customers! I'm not a marketing person, but I've got to believe that when you say things that are clearly not in touch with reality, you damage your relationship with your customers.
> 
> As for the Wilmington Trail, I'd be REALLY surprised if it isn't open this weekend. They've been blowing snow on it for about a week now, and with the natural snow in addition to that, I've got to believe it will be ready for the weekend. The bigger question is Hoyt's High ... I assume they will not be blowing snow on it this year, but is there enough natural snow on it to open it for a day or two? I did see one track on it as I passed by on Sunday afternoon ... from what I could see, it looked pretty good!!! I'm guessing that won't happen, but there's always hope!
> 
> As for conditions overall ... This past weekend was very good. On Sunday, I didn't actually get out until after 1:00. I wasn't even planning to go, but I heard from some friends that conditions were still good, even at lunchtime, so I decided to give it a shot. I couldn't believe how good conditions were, all the way up until 4:00. There was definitely good skiing to be found.
> 
> "Middle" Parkway was awesome ... The snowmaking on that section of the trail hasn't worked for years, so it's not open very often, but it was this weekend. It's amazing how much different it is to ski on all natural snow versus man-made. By the time I had gotten over there, the race they were running on Upper Thruway and Drapers had ended, so I was able to take the Little Whiteface chair to the mid, ski the top of Mountain Run or Upper Parkway to "middle" Parkway, and then cut across Thruway to Calamity Lane and back to the lift ... breathe ... repeat!
> 
> They had also opened Upper McKenzie, which was also really good for the most part. The headwall was a little thin, but you could certainly find a way through it. Unfortunately, Lower Mac wasn't quite as good ... there were some huge moguls on it, but it was down to the base in between them. Upper & Lower Skyward were also really good. I was really surprised that I could get so much good skiing in on a Sunday afternoon from 1:00 - 4:00!!!



I skied Sunday afternoon as well after a morning tour - got there around 12:30 and skied until 3:30...excellent conditions all the way to the end. Snow showers all weekend made for great conditions in my opinion. 10th Mt Glades/Upper Mac/"middle parkway" all great


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## Yukon Cornelius

ADKmike said:


> I skied Sunday afternoon as well after a morning tour - got there around 12:30 and skied until 3:30...excellent conditions all the way to the end. Snow showers all weekend made for great conditions in my opinion. 10th Mt Glades/Upper Mac/"middle parkway" all great


Glad to hear it. We're headed up for Prez Week.


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## SudsNBumps

I had to go back to see who posted it...Q Jones...I skied Whiteface today and was disappointed. Not having the little whiteface lift running makes no sense. It ran yesterday and was told it is amazing what one day will do. Freeway just doesn't cut it. Although my pick of the day was Parkway, because I ended up lapping it instead of exploring ?. I did some exploring and there was some good snow and some ice that was unedgeable. I just wish I could have skied upper empire, upper cloudsplitter glades, upper mac...I skied down at lunch time thinking I would suck it up and get one from the top of little whiteface before I had to go to work, but saw both lines and left.


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## Face4Me

SudsNBumps said:


> Not having the little whiteface lift running makes no sense.


I couldn't agree more ... I understand that from a staffing and economics point of view, they don't want to run both the Gondola and the Little Whiteface chair during the week. That said, run Little Whiteface ... it is SO much more efficient than the Gondola right now.

I was talking to a couple of people in the lift line this weekend, and they were complaining that they had been at the mountain earlier in the week and only the Little Whiteface chair was running. When I pointed out that the Gondola is not very efficient because they're loading it at somewhere between 30 - 40% capacity, they were like "wow ... I never thought of that", and were less annoyed about it.


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## Milo Maltbie

They should run Little Whiteface regardless of the gondola. This is the first year that Gore is running AE2 everyday, even when the gondola is running, probably because virus. A lot of us appreciate the fresh air route to the top. It would be the same with Little Witeface.

mm


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## Grillman

DanS said:


> Having never skied them, where do the sugar valley glades exit? From the trail map it looks like flying squirrel at bear den.


they come out right before the enterence to boreen. but you can also go the Kiddie Kampus


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## Face4Me

Great conditions today at Whiteface ... Packed powder surfaces all over the mountain. The Wilmington Trail had some of the best conditions I've ever seen on that trail (with the exception of some rocks on the surface at the beginning of the "Jersey Turnpike" section). It was pretty cold first thing this morning, but by 9:00, it was quite comfortable.

As a bonus ... It seemed that no one at ORDA recognized that today was the beginning of the non-holiday season pass holders blackout period, and they could sell more day tickets. The mountain was ABSOLUTELY EMPTY!!!!! I rode the gondola three times today, with almost no wait at all. First time riding the gondola since before Christmas. At one point around 2:00 this afternoon, there wasn't a single person in the gondola corral! Every liftie I spoke to was completely confused and couldn't believe it.

I heard that they're scrambling to make more tickets available for tomorrow and the rest of the week, so get online and check if you're looking for somewhere to ski.


----------



## JTG

Yeah, I was shocked at how few people were at the mountain today. Great day. Great conditions. I can see a lot of things getting skied off quickly if the crowds do descend, but today was nice. 

Surprise, surprise.....trails open on conditions report not accurate. Upper Empire listed as open, rope up all day. Don’t give me that “anticipated conditions” bs, because Sugar Valley wasn’t listed as open in the am, but had a green check after noon. Yeah, ropes and closed signs up. We skied it anyway. I enjoyed it, found some fresh snow. My boys, not so much. Cloudspin has lots of pine tops, but not too many rocks, and it skied well.


----------



## DanS

Conditions pretty good so far. Upper Mackenzie really good,..thin cover though. Empire was closed when we passed, hopefully it opens later. Groomed trails mostly excellent packed powder. Wilmington trail more of what you expect from an east coast groomer, but still fun.

Low crowds. ski on at all lifts so far, with the exception of the bear den as I am looking out the window.


----------



## Face4Me

DanS said:


> Conditions pretty good so far. Upper Mackenzie really good,..thin cover though. Empire was closed when we passed, hopefully it opens later. Groomed trails mostly excellent packed powder. Wilmington trail more of what you expect from an east coast groomer, but still fun.
> 
> Low crowds. ski on at all lifts so far, with the exception of the bear den as I am looking out the window.


Yep ... Another day of great conditions and minimal crowds. Visibility was a bit tough today, especially early, with some freezing mist in the air, but that cleared by about 10:00 and then it was just gray with flat light. Lower Mac and Lower Parkway were perfectly groomed packed powder early on ... tons of fun to just rip through!!!


----------



## ADKmike

Sugar valley glades were fun today...been years since I been in there


----------



## Capdistski

Bought Frequent skier days on Tuesday two weeks ago - looks like we picked well:


----------



## Face4Me

I'm hearing that this storm MIGHT put the slides in play ... no guarantees, but be ready with your gear just in case!


----------



## Cork

Face4Me said:


> I'm hearing that this storm MIGHT put the slides in play ... no guarantees, but be ready with your gear just in case!


Highly unlikely with the current risk of avalanches already very high.









DEC: Avalanche warning in the Adirondack High Peaks


Ahead of Tuesday's snowstorm, state officials are warning of avalanche risk in the Adirondack High Peaks.




www.northcountrypublicradio.org


----------



## ADKmike

Cork said:


> Highly unlikely with the current risk of avalanches already very high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEC: Avalanche warning in the Adirondack High Peaks
> 
> 
> Ahead of Tuesday's snowstorm, state officials are warning of avalanche risk in the Adirondack High Peaks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.northcountrypublicradio.org


Yeh was thinking the same just saw that this afternoon


----------



## lukoson

Looks like WF avoided ice storm? Website says 3-6 of POW this morning.


----------



## NorEaster27

lukoson said:


> Looks like WF avoided ice storm? Website says 3-6 of POW this morning.


unlikely, i would say they got 3 inches of sleet.


----------



## Capdistski

About 3-4” but just a tiny heavier layer on top - no crust like at my house in Queensbuy. Just had what might have been my best east coast run ever on Wilmington - soft fresh snow, view opening up on the bottom half. Not sure I have ever skied it before - definitely not in last 10 years.


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## JTG

Thanks for the update, glad WF dodged the bullet. Now...time to think about making Friday work!


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## ADKmike

Whiteface 4-6 with a light crust on top. Mash-potato-ish after getting cut up. Not bad but not the pow day that was expected. Totally skiable and fun still just a little weird making first tracks in it...Face and I had first chair it was some weird snow this morning !


----------



## JTG

ADKmike said:


> Whiteface 4-6 with a light crust on top. Mash-potato-ish after getting cut up. Not bad but not the pow day that was expected. Totally skiable and fun still just a little weird making first tracks in it...Face and I had first chair it was some weird snow this morning !


I briefly considered jumping in the car yesterday evening, with some forecasts floating the idea of up to 18”. Glad the Friday potential made me put that idea aside. At least this was a base building event, and cold snow could make for a great Friday. Thinking about driving up Tuesday afternoon to get Friday in, if that storm looks like it will pan out. If you think you’ll be around let me know.

No Slides?


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> Whiteface 4-6 with a light crust on top. Mash-potato-ish after getting cut up. Not bad but not the pow day that was expected. Totally skiable and fun still just a little weird making first tracks in it...Face and I had first chair it was some weird snow this morning !


Yeah ... A bit of a disappointment, but still had a good time. Definitely had to be on your toes in the morning with the thin crust on top! Had fun trying to keep up with AdkMike!!! Hopefully we'll do it again soon. Assuming this all gets groomed in tonight, I would expect tomorrow to be an awesome packed powder, groomers kind of day!!!


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

Face4Me said:


> Yeah ... A bit of a disappointment, but still had a good time. Definitely had to be on your toes in the morning with the thin crust on top! Had fun trying to keep up with AdkMike!!! Hopefully we'll do it again soon. Assuming this all gets groomed in tonight, I would expect tomorrow to be an awesome packed powder, groomers kind of day!!!


Hoping we avoid more sleet/freezing rain tonight. Snow combined with visibility was tough, but you could make some fun turns in it. Hoping they groom like hell tonight before the sun comes out tomorrow. I am sore!


----------



## Face4Me

Yukon Cornelius said:


> I am sore!


Me too ... It was a lot of work today!!! After about 10:00, it felt like Spring skiing!


----------



## DanS

Great day! First time Empire has been open in my roughly 20 trips to WF. Worth the wait, some rocks in spots, but I love the steep, narrow soft bumps. Upper Mackenzie also really great ungroomed run. I don’t know the name but the woods to skiers left right before lower Mack were awesome.

skyward was ok, exhausting skiing on chipped up heavy snow.

And, right now ~3:30 it is snowing super hard outside our condo.


----------



## Face4Me

DanS said:


> I don’t know the name but the woods to skiers left right before lower Mack were awesome.


High Country Glades.


----------



## Capdistski

Last few years WF has been my Nov/April destination so it had been a long time since I have seen almost the entire mountain open with little ice or wind so today was a great day for me and my son and friends. Hit so many runs that have always been closed on past visits: Wilderness, Mackenzie, Empire, Lower Skyward - can’t tell you how many times I have taken the chair over Lower Skyward and never been able to ski it, and it was GOOD. But run of day was Wilmington at 930am - a little late for us as drive from Queensbury took twice my usual 1hr 15.


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> Yeah ... A bit of a disappointment, but still had a good time. Definitely had to be on your toes in the morning with the thin crust on top! Had fun trying to keep up with AdkMike!!! Hopefully we'll do it again soon. Assuming this all gets groomed in tonight, I would expect tomorrow to be an awesome packed powder, groomers kind of day!!!



I think I was trying to keep up with you on several occasions - 5 ejections will set you back a bit!

Definitely a fun morning and some work to ski it - big bumps had formed in areas.

should groom out nice I’d think


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> 5 ejections will set you back a bit!


Uh ... Yeah ... I really think you may need to tighten those things up a bit!!!


----------



## Grillman

my new definition of hell....in lake placid...but too much work...and so, the mountain is so close...and i am so far. In someways, it is so much easier to be at the office in NYC.


----------



## lukoson

Glad to hear all the great reports. Was supposed to go to gore today but scrapped it. We’re driving up tomorrow to WF for Thursday and Friday skiing and if luck is on our side Saturday too!


----------



## ADKmike

JTG said:


> I briefly considered jumping in the car yesterday evening, with some forecasts floating the idea of up to 18”. Glad the Friday potential made me put that idea aside. At least this was a base building event, and cold snow could make for a great Friday. Thinking about driving up Tuesday afternoon to get Friday in, if that storm looks like it will pan out. If you think you’ll be around let me know.
> 
> No Slides?


Don’t think slides are happening for a bit after today’s weather...did it all snow, sleet, rain, temp drop, crusted, etc...groomers should be nice tho net positive result on snowfall


----------



## DanS

Another fun day. My daughter and I went up expecting to do a couple hours of groomers, but much to my surprise Empire and Upper Mackenzie were both open. In short 
, groomed stuff was really good, ungroomed was more variable but still in play and fun to ski.

upper empire was much softer than I thought it would be. We loved it, but some other skiers on the trail were definitely not feeling the rock vibe. Lower empire was garbage, the soft snow from yesterday refroze into a mess.

upper Mack was great, really soft for first 10 or so turns, then got real firm all of a sudden. The moguls were well formed and large enough that it was still quite skiable, unlike lower empire. Definitely not west coast bumps, but for us it was a ton of fun, we did it 5 or 6 times.

moguls on Victoria were good, a little bit smoother than the one on upper Mack. Off Broadway also had some nice bumps.

given how bad lower empire was we decided it best to stay out of the trees.


----------



## lukoson

Still hoping for a few inches but looking less likely each time I check the weather report.


----------



## lukoson

Not a bad day. Definitely some crusty snow but good coverage and seems like almost everything is open. Hoping for some freshies tonight which will help for tomorrow.


----------



## DanS

lukoson said:


> Not a bad day. Definitely some crusty snow but good coverage and seems like almost everything is open. Hoping for some freshies tonight which will help for tomorrow.


Yes, definitely. Similar to yesterday, but everything was a bit faster. Moguls were smoother (less cookies), but harder and quicker in between. Skiers left on skyward after the steep part had a nice section. An inch or two and the mountain will ski significantly better.


----------



## Kingslug

I'll be doing the snow dance on the roof again..works once in a while.


----------



## DanS

Kingslug said:


> I'll be doing the snow dance on the roof again..works once in a while.


Hah! Hopefully it works this time!


----------



## Kingslug

Guess it did..its snowing.


----------



## 3dogs

@whiteface skiing is really good.just went to hit upper Mac and rope across trail,web site show's it open,had to ski down wilderness which was excellent! Lookout chair was stopped when I went by now its on hold?
Would not be Whiteface whit out some lift issue. No crowds so far.


----------



## DanS

Pretty good conditions today. Probably 1 inch, no real snow during the day but probably another inch or two in town after 4pm.

Everything just a bit better than yesterday. I think I was the first person down blazers bluff, patrol included. It was actually pretty good, and when skiied later in afternoon was really good. Around the mountain, the moguls were bigger but softer and a bit more forgiving—still hard though.

Crowds were not an issue at all.


----------



## lukoson

We were one of the first down Skyward. Was really great to go down on fresh groomers. Lower Skyward groomer got me hooting!


----------



## DanS

The report said two inches, which is probably accurate. It is a bit hard to tell given that the wind was moving snow around, creating both drifts and wind swept areas. It did snow lightly all day long, and is still snowing now.

Overall, the conditions were a bit better than yesterday. I had trouble with visibility on the steeper section of skyward, but aside from that things were good. The bumps had a bunch of snow in the troughs due to the wind, which made things interesting the first couple of runs down. After that it was great, skiers right on mountain run had some nice soft mounds.


----------



## Face4Me

3dogs said:


> Would not be Whiteface whit out some lift issue.


Great conditions today (and yesterday) ... Cloudspin was really good ... There was a lot more snow in there than I expected ... There were some things you had to watch out for, but overall, it was very good. Middle Parkway was also really good today, nice soft bumps with all natural snow, except the couple of hundred feet before Lower Parkway ... that part was a little crunchy. The bonus was Lower Parkway, with virtually untouched groomed corduroy at 2:00 in the afternoon!!!!

The Freeway Chair (racer's lift) was down all weekend ... I didn't have an opportunity to ask anyone what the deal is with it ... This forced all the racers to use the Face Lift, and then cut straight across the bottom of Mountain Run so that they could get across to where they were holding the races this weekend. With all the racers using the Face Lift, this made for much longer than normal waits, which kind of took the Wilmington Trail out of play ... it just wasn't worth waiting at the bottom to get back up the hill. Hopefully the issue with the Freeway Chair will be corrected this week ... That really is an important chair.

Shiny new lodges are great ... Reliable lifts that work are better.


----------



## snoloco

Freeway is done for the season so I've heard. In a normal year it wouldn't matter because I can ride the gondola at non peak times and ski the terrain off one lift, and use the Facelift to lap Wilmington without much of a wait. This year, it basically leaves just Summit and Little Whiteface if you don't want to wait in a significant line.

I ended up bailing at 10 on Saturday and going to Gore when I came off Wilmington and both the gondola and Facelift were out of the ropes.


----------



## JTG

I could very well be wrong, as I’ve only skied MLK and Prez Day weekends.....but I think people perceive the gondola line to be longer than it really is. I waited for it multiple times, both weekends, when the corral after ticket scan was full, they locked out the scanner to slow the line and create space, the line snaked around, and was out just past the fencing. Guess what? The line didn’t take very long. No longer than the lines on pre-COVID MLK and Prez Day weekends. On the whole, shorter, actually.

Maybe non-holiday weekends are worse? Maybe people are just spoiled and can’t handle a 10 to 15 minute line??


----------



## Face4Me

JTG said:


> Maybe people are just spoiled and can’t handle a 10 to 15 minute line??


I won't say no to that!!!


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

JTG said:


> I could very well be wrong, as I’ve only skied MLK and Prez Day weekends.....but I think people perceive the gondola line to be longer than it really is. I waited for it multiple times, both weekends, when the corral after ticket scan was full, they locked out the scanner to slow the line and create space, the line snaked around, and was out just past the fencing. Guess what? The line didn’t take very long. No longer than the lines on pre-COVID MLK and Prez Day weekends. On the whole, shorter, actually.
> 
> Maybe non-holiday weekends are worse? Maybe people are just spoiled and can’t handle a 10 to 15 minute line??


Is 15 minutes a normal wait for a lift?


----------



## CarlS

New Whiteface slogan "We're not happy till your not happy"

NYS and ORDA need to figure out the aging lift system at Whiteface. Mountain run lift and Parkway lift are 41 years old. What other mountain in the east has a lift that old. Crazytown!


----------



## SudsNBumps

Guess I am totally spoiled...15 minutes is a lap


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> I could very well be wrong, as I’ve only skied MLK and Prez Day weekends.....but I think people perceive the gondola line to be longer than it really is. I waited for it multiple times, both weekends, when the corral after ticket scan was full, they locked out the scanner to slow the line and create space, the line snaked around, and was out just past the fencing. Guess what? The line didn’t take very long. No longer than the lines on pre-COVID MLK and Prez Day weekends. On the whole, shorter, actually.
> 
> Maybe non-holiday weekends are worse? Maybe people are just spoiled and can’t handle a 10 to 15 minute line??


This weekend is still a holiday weekend for ORDA based on the pass blackouts, but it was much more crowded than the first weekend of President's Week, even though that is normally busier.

I made my decision knowing I'd be limited to only 2 lifts for the better part of the day and I'd already skied most of the trails off one of them. Checking the Gore webcam and seeing both base area lifts with short lines also influenced my decision.


----------



## JTG

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> Is 15 minutes a normal wait for a lift?


I don’t think 15 minutes is an abnormal wait for a lift, especially on a holiday weekend. Mind you, at WF that was for the gondola, once. Most other times it was less than 10, at times walk on. All other lifts were ski on. For a holiday weekend most places I don’t think that’s normal, I think lift lines are longer.

I get it if people pass on the gondola because of COVID precaution, but not because the lift line is too long.


----------



## DanS

JTG said:


> I don’t think 15 minutes is an abnormal wait for a lift, especially on a holiday weekend. Mind you, at WF that was for the gondola, once. Most other times it was less than 10, at times walk on. All other lifts were ski on. For a holiday weekend most places I don’t think that’s normal, I think lift lines are longer.
> 
> I get it if people pass on the gondola because of COVID precaution, but not because the lift line is too long.


As JTG said, most of the day was essentially ski on at the LWF double and the summit quad. I have waited longer for the gondola at gore and whiteface than I did this past Saturday, although I only took it once. I have definitely waited longer for a chair out west (more than 20 min) than I have at any time during the current season. I wonder how long this line was:


----------



## snoloco

That picture is a worst worse scenario, but even pictures of "normal" lines at Vail would be unheard of here in the east. I think people in the west are generally more tolerant of lines for whatever reason. Everyone has their own tolerance. Mine goes down significantly if lines are created by a resort's failure to operate enough lifts for the crowd that shows up.


----------



## Face4Me

I don't think the wait time is the point here ... The reality is the COVID-19 operating restrictions are the real issue with respect to wait times ... Ordinarily, if you're willing to use the singles line, you can reduce the wait time significantly at the gondola, the Face Lift and the Summit Quad. For the gondola specifically, I'd guess it's loading at about 30-40% capacity on average ... that is certainly going to impact wait times.

My original point was ORDA's focus. At the end of the day, the thing that matters most is the product ... the product is the skiing! The product includes functional snowmaking systems & lifts. The Freeway chair and the Little Whiteface chair have had known issues for years ... How many times do you have to resort to loading every other chair on a lift to recognize that there's a problem that must be dealt with? It's like driving your car with the check engine light on and ignoring it, hoping that you won't end up broken down on the side of the road at some point.

Imagine if this was 2023, and the World University Games were here and the Freeway chair broke down ... Not a pretty picture when you're hosting a major international competition.


----------



## Kingslug

When Alta opened after the storm the wait was 2 hours for first chair...I would not do that. My feet would be asleep by that time.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> I don't think the wait time is the point here ... The reality is the COVID-19 operating restrictions are the real issue with respect to wait times ... Ordinarily, if you're willing to use the singles line, you can reduce the wait time significantly at the gondola, the Face Lift and the Summit Quad. For the gondola specifically, I'd guess it's loading at about 30-40% capacity on average ... that is certainly going to impact wait times.



This is was I was thinking while reading the early posts. We certainly are still in a pandemic and guideline restrictions must be followed. Praying that with vaccinations and soon everyone will be back outside next year will be different. As one who wears glasses I CANT STAND MASKS -- lol


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> As one who wears glasses I CANT STAND MASKS -- lol


Amen to that!!! I normally ski with a prescription insert inside my ski goggles. With the mask, I absolutely could not come up with any solution that prevented the insert from fogging up. I've been skiing without it since about the second week of the season. I can see fairly well without my glasses, but there are definitely some details in the snow that I can't spot, especially when the light is flat. Fortunately there's almost never flat light at Whiteface!!!  I've hit a few things that I never saw that have nearly thrown me on my ass a few times ... that next yard sale is just around the corner!


----------



## Harvey

For me, 15 minutes is over the line for "long wait." I'd wait one time for 15 minutes if I had confidence that the rest of the day would be 2 minutes or less. Like first chair at Gore. Sometimes I go 30 minutes early to get first gondi.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> Fortunately there's almost never flat light at Whiteface!!!



LMAO!


----------



## Kingslug

Its why I go to places that have lifts all over the place..
The ones that force you to always go to the bottom have been a problem this year. Just compare Stowe to sugarbush..or Hunter to Gore.


----------



## snoloco

While it's been clear that the Freeway and Little Whiteface lifts needed replacement for years, the covid restrictions made it much more obvious since the gondola has so much less capacity.


----------



## Face4Me

Kingslug said:


> Its why I go to places that have lifts all over the place..
> The ones that force you to always go to the bottom have been a problem this year. Just compare Stowe to sugarbush..or Hunter to Gore.


Exactly ... Under normal circumstances, when you ski Whiteface, you never go back to the bottom ... The only reason to do that is if you want to go to the main lodge for lunch, OR, if you want to ski the Wilmington Trail. This is one of the BEST things about the layout at Whiteface ... When all the lifts are running, especially if Hoyt's High and/or Lookout Below are open so you can lap the Lookout Triple, you can always find a lift that has a minimal wait, even on the most crowded days.


----------



## JTG

Question for you WF regulars. Clearly the lift lines on holiday weekends this year have been shorter than in years past. Maybe that is just a quirk of an abundance of non-holiday season pass holders this year? Anyway, my question is this....have the lift lines on non-holiday weekends and weekdays this year been longer than the lines have been on the holiday weekends?

Random life’s truism for the day. If one is inclined to look for something to be unhappy about.....they are going to find something, and be unhappy.

Face, I get that your biggest beef is with operations for not making sure lifts are available that should be available, especially during a pandemic.....but you talk a lot about wait times, and the lack of a singles line to reduce wait times, for a guy who says it isn’t about wait times! 

Sorry guys, for better or worse, we have all been spoiled by NY skiing. ‘Normal circumstances’ are so good that it’s hard to stomach the inconvenience of having to go to the bottom, and maybe wait on a 10 minute lift line (gasp, maybe even 15 if the gondola is at its longest wait of the day), if you want to ski Wilmington. Seriously, on any day, holiday weekends no less, pandemic or no, when you have to wait in a 10 or 15 minute line once or twice....and ski on lifts the rest of the day....and you find life lines are too long? That’s spoiled, myself included!

For someone like Face, where you just want to get a few runs in before work I can see the “lift issues” being more frustrating.


----------



## Face4Me

JTG said:


> Question for you WF regulars. Clearly the lift lines on holiday weekends this year have been shorter than in years past. Maybe that is just a quirk of an abundance of non-holiday season pass holders this year? Anyway, my question is this....have the lift lines on non-holiday weekends and weekdays this year been longer than the lines have been on the holiday weekends?


Based on my experience, I would say that the average wait times this season, at the gondola and the Face Lift specifically, have been longer than they normally are. Several factors for this ... 

COVID-19 restrictions reducing the loading capacity of these lifts. *This no doubt is the biggest factor by far.*
From what I heard, a 30% increase in ORDA season pass sales this year bringing more people than normal to the mountain, particularly on non-holiday period weekdays. Whiteface is normally a ghost town during the week. That has not been what I've seen this season. I would imagine the impact of the pandemic on jobs, work schedules, school schedules, etc. is also responsible for this as well.
Lift issues! These have been a combination of wind/weather related issues (absolutely nothing they can do about that), staffing issues (maybe if you treated your employees better they'd be more likely to show up on time and when they're supposed to) and mechanical issues. 



JTG said:


> Random life’s truism for the day. If one is inclined to look for something to be unhappy about.....they are going to find something, and be unhappy.


Not sure if this was directed at me, but if so, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny ... "he don't know me very well do he".


JTG said:


> Face, I get that your biggest beef is with operations for not making sure lifts are available that should be available, especially during a pandemic.....but you talk a lot about wait times, and the lack of a singles line to reduce wait times, for a guy who says it isn’t about wait times!


Ok ... you got me ... I do hate to wait on lines. Guilty as charged. Cool.


JTG said:


> Sorry guys, for better or worse, we have all been spoiled by NY skiing. ‘Normal circumstances’ are so good that it’s hard to stomach the inconvenience of having to go to the bottom, and maybe wait on a 10 minute lift line (gasp, maybe even 15 if the gondola is at its longest wait of the day), if you want to ski Wilmington. Seriously, on any day, holiday weekends no less, pandemic or no, when you have to wait in a 10 or 15 minute line once or twice....and ski on lifts the rest of the day....and you find life lines are too long? That’s spoiled, myself included!


I've been at Whiteface in the past for some of the record attendance days, and I've waited in long lines. That's not what bothers me. If you're operating at your capacity, sometimes your capacity isn't enough, and that's ok. On days like that, I can choose to wait in lines or not. I don't really think of that as being spoiled. I will say, that if I knew I would have to wait in line for 15 minutes before every run I took, I'd probably not be doing this anymore.

What does bother me, is the Groundhog Day effect. It seems like every time you go to the mountain, there's some kind of issue with something ... it could be a lift issue, a snow-making issue, a staffing issue, a power problem ... whatever. 

Whiteface was always a little "rough around the edges", and in a lot of ways, that was part of its appeal. ORDA is clearly trying to move away from that image, and I'm fine with that, but the reality is, they still have a very long way to go.

Just my humble opinion. ?


----------



## JTG

No Face, that comment wasn’t directed at you. My brother had a terrible experience Saturday of MLK weekend. Not because anything terrible happened....but he just wanted to find a problem. His attitude toward everything from COVID response, to having to use a kiosk, to perceived lift lines (compared to any other holiday weekend)....he turned little things into big problems, and created his own negativity. I don’t get that vibe from you. There may be other ‘round here who I perceive as willing to cut off their nose to spite their face, but not you.

I don’t like lines, either. I guess I’m just lucky this year to have only skied holiday weekends, where avg lift lines have definitely been shorter than normal. Even if I’ve had to suffer thru a wait of 10 or 15 minutes on occasion, that’s pretty good compared to years past. I can see where that wait could seem more pronounced other times, non-holiday and weekday when such waits didn’t exist. Added frustration is understandable when operational shortcomings exacerbate COVID impacts on loading efficiency.


----------



## snoloco

The impact of covid restrictions should be taken into account for any complaint about lift lines, but I do not see the circumstances this season as an excuse for repeated failures. Everyone is operating under the same guidelines.


----------



## Moe

Just wrapped up 3 days at WF. The base was crowded Saturday but even then the wait at the Face wasn't long enough to get annoying. Otherwise everything moved well. The crowd found the summit yesterday so chair 6 was busy. 

I can't complain about WF this year. They had their obligatory broken pipe in mid December but they look like they have blown more snow than ever. It also looks like they have fixed the electrical issues that always had the little WF double down when they torched the mid lodge and built a new one. Its always annoying when the lift you want is not running or broken but shit happens and it isn't realistic to just say they should replace everything.


----------



## Ripitz

Moe said:


> torched the mid lodge and built a new one.


Can’t stop laughing. I liked the old one. Haven’t seen the new


----------



## snoloco

Moe said:


> They have blown more snow than ever.


False. They didn't make snow on Hoyt's or Lookout Below.


----------



## Face4Me

Moe said:


> They had their obligatory broken pipe in mid December ...


This really makes my point. Why is it that we have come to "expect" problems? New York State pumps millions of dollars of our (taxpayer's) money into ORDA each year. Is it wrong to expect better? Is it not possible to test the system in late October or early November so these problems can be found and fixed BEFORE you need the system? 


Moe said:


> ... but shit happens ...


Yes ... I totally agree with this. You can't possibly anticipate and protect against everything, but to phrase it humorously, it seems to me that Whiteface has a bad case of diarrhea.


----------



## Moe

I understand, and agree for the most part with the frustration. It is an individual choice to decide how much it will impact your day. This year I think they have done a better job than years past. Factoring in COVID I think they have done a great job. Capacity is way down and they still have everything open (besides Hoyts and lookout below). I was worried that they would cut capacity by 50% and cut terrain by 50%.

Everyone has their thing that pisses them off over the course of the day. I kills me that people can't figure out how to merge 3 lines into a single lift line without a liftie having to stand there, point and say, "your turn". Seriously kills me that we are collectively that stupid. How fucking hard is 1, 2, 3,...1, 2, 3,... Apparently very.... SMH


----------



## Kingslug

People can't handle traffic in cars..lift lines too apparently...
Famous line in the Movie Master and Commander....".Men must be governed!" ......


----------



## jasonwx

I have zero tolerance for lines or traffic
I’m so nuts I have walked out of a supermarket if I see 2 pp lined up at the check out 
Yep I need psychiatric help


----------



## Kingslug

I take it The Motor Vehicle Dept is off limits then. 
number 300000004567293745 counter 3....


----------



## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> I’m so nuts I have walked out of a supermarket if I see 2 pp lined up at the check out



You have no idea how many times I do this


----------



## tirolski

The other day at the local mini market they couldn’t figure out how to get the card reader register thingy to work and I was next in line. After waiting a couple minutes a simple suggestion to just use the other unused register was not met with kindness. Put the stuff back and drove across town to the other one, in and out in a minute. 
Could be nuts too.


----------



## Face4Me

Contrary to what some of my posts seem to indicate, I'm very patient and willing to wait in lines, however, that patience and willingness is directly related to the following:

Is what I'm waiting for worth it? Is it going to make me happy or solve a problem that I'm having? Do I need it? If so, then I'll wait patiently.

Why am I waiting? Is there enough staff? Are things (computers, lifts, etc) working? If the wait is due to the demand exceeding the capacity, and they're operating at full capacity, then once again, I'll wait patiently.

That's not to say that I like it, or that I won't try to find ways to avoid it, like using a singles line, but I'll certainly put up with it.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> but I'll certainly put up with it.



I don't have the mental capacity that you have, I can't put up with it. LOL


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> I don't have the mental capacity that you have, I can't put up with it. LOL


What I CAN'T put up with is incompetence. I will admit that I have ZERO tolerance for incompetent people.


----------



## Tjf1967

Face4Me said:


> What I CAN'T put up with is incompetence. I will admit that I have ZERO tolerance for incompetent people.


TWSS!! oh wait wrong word


----------



## JTG

Face4Me said:


> That's not to say that I like it, or that I won't try to find ways to avoid it, like using a singles line, but I'll certainly put up with it.


Yeah, that whole post makes sense to me.

My problem in understanding other’s frustrations is that I’ve been there, on holiday weekends, with great conditions, the mountain operating at full efficiency. With those circumstances why wouldn’t I wait in a 10 or 15 minute line once or twice, while skiing on lifts most other times? Heck, you would too.

Change any of those parameters and it becomes more frustrating, I get that.

I still don’t get the general idea of leaving and driving across town or across the state. Sure, there may have been mitigating factors for someone like Sno, who last weekend drove all the way from WF to Gore to avoid some time in WF lines. However, he very well may have spent more time driving (and missing skiing) than he would have spent waiting in WF’s longer lift lines. Or the drive to another supermarket example. How much time did putting groceries back, driving across town, shopping again, and then (gasp) waiting in line at the new place take? Did you really save any time? I understand that isn’t the proper question. Stand on principle and don’t support the business that can’t get their shit together, ok. However, I’m not inclined to do that it it costs me more time. I’m weak and selfish like that, I suppose!


----------



## JTG

Tjf1967 said:


> TWSS!! oh wait wrong word


Dude. We don’t care about your gal’s distaste for unintended golden showers.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Face4Me said:


> Contrary to what some of my posts seem to indicate, I'm very patient and willing to wait in lines, however, that patience and willingness is directly related to the following:
> 
> Is what I'm waiting for worth it? Is it going to make me happy or solve a problem that I'm having? Do I need it? If so, then I'll wait patiently.
> 
> Why am I waiting? Is there enough staff? Are things (computers, lifts, etc) working? If the wait is due to the demand exceeding the capacity, and they're operating at full capacity, then once again, I'll wait patiently.
> 
> That's not to say that I like it, or that I won't try to find ways to avoid it, like using a singles line, but I'll certainly put up with it.


Couldn't agree more with everything said.

Side note, if I'm in line for a stopped lift and see a ski doo approaching, I'm the first one gone.


----------



## Campgottagopee

D.B. Cooper said:


> Side note, if I'm in line for a stopped lift and see a ski doo approaching, I'm the first one gone.


----------



## SIAWOL

Face4Me said:


> What does bother me, is the Groundhog Day effect. It seems like every time you go to the mountain, there's some kind of issue with something ... it could be a lift issue, a snow-making issue, a staffing issue, a power problem ... whatever.
> 
> Whiteface was always a little "rough around the edges", and in a lot of ways, that was part of its appeal. ORDA is clearly trying to move away from that image, and I'm fine with that, but the reality is, they still have a very long way to go.


Full disclosure: I'm a Gore homer....and Gore has it's own set of issues. Maybe I've just figured how to deal with them.

We do get up to WF a couple times/year for a change of scenery. Almost always early Feb or later. Overall skiing has been good for us and we've had some fun days. But there's always a handful of "little" things that annoy me every time we go. At the risk of coming across too "first world problem-y" and whiny:

parking---rarely anyone directing traffic till you're in the actual lot. Do I park on the access road? Do I keep going and hope bottom lot is open? If it's not, where do I turn around?
walking from the lot to the lodge. The bridge is cool. But the walk just bugs me for some reason---especially as you basically walk right thru the drop off area and are dodging cars
gondi loading a tad too far to walk down to, but too close to justify putting the skis on for 3 seconds.
Or you walk uphill to the face lift
shortage of shelves/hooks in the base lodge
lockers downstairs have sloped top...so you can't set anything on top of them
the gondi never seems to load until 830a. Not 8:20. Not 8:25. Not 8:29.....8:30
the trees....sure they can be fun. But seems like they weren't cut low enough so there's lots of little ankle biters poking up. And the double fall line of cloudsplitter/10th...like Chati I dislike always having to cut over as Im going downhill. And Cloud/10th is like the same thing
less gondi cars than Gore. Snoloco probably has the stats, but that's true, right? The old gondis had those dang windows that never stayed propped open. At least the new ones don't have that problem
a couple beautiful lift lines that are technically off limits.
higher elevation=dense pine tree stands. Less opportunity to poke around and explore
the old olympic buildings around the hill---just so decrepit. they put some cool signs on them listing the medal winners and such, but they couldn't fix the door hanging on by 1 hinge?
All the trail intersections---constantly looking left, right, left again.
A bazillion stairwells in the base lodge
Yes--I do have a list of things I do like about WF, so it's not all negative. Long, ripping cruisers. The commitment to bump runs. Upper mountain lifts move OK. The learning center--while separated--is pretty cool. Mid lodge patio. Legit terrain park. Hosting some big time race events.


----------



## Face4Me

Wow ... That's quite a list.

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points, none of those bother me, except this one ...


SIAWOL said:


> a couple beautiful lift lines that are technically off limits.


It's definitely a bummer that Whiteface doesn't allow the lift lines to be skied ... The Summit Quad, Lookout Triple and Freeway lift lines are all particularly inviting!!! Not sure if the 25 mile trail limit is a factor here or not. I may have skied one or two of these, or maybe it was just a dream.


----------



## Face4Me

Wow ... That's quite a list.

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points, none of those bother me, except this one ...


SIAWOL said:


> a couple beautiful lift lines that are technically off limits.


It's definitely a bummer that Whiteface doesn't allow the lift lines to be skied ... The Summit Quad, Lookout Triple and Freeway lift lines are all particularly inviting!!! Not sure if the 25 mile trail limit is a factor here or not. I may have skied one or two of these, or maybe it was just a dream.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

SIAWOL said:


> Full disclosure: I'm a Gore homer....and Gore has it's own set of issues. Maybe I've just figured how to deal with them.
> 
> We do get up to WF a couple times/year for a change of scenery. Almost always early Feb or later. Overall skiing has been good for us and we've had some fun days. But there's always a handful of "little" things that annoy me every time we go. At the risk of coming across too "first world problem-y" and whiny:
> 
> parking---rarely anyone directing traffic till you're in the actual lot. Do I park on the access road? Do I keep going and hope bottom lot is open? If it's not, where do I turn around?
> walking from the lot to the lodge. The bridge is cool. But the walk just bugs me for some reason---especially as you basically walk right thru the drop off area and are dodging cars
> gondi loading a tad too far to walk down to, but too close to justify putting the skis on for 3 seconds.
> Or you walk uphill to the face lift
> shortage of shelves/hooks in the base lodge
> lockers downstairs have sloped top...so you can't set anything on top of them
> the gondi never seems to load until 830a. Not 8:20. Not 8:25. Not 8:29.....8:30
> the trees....sure they can be fun. But seems like they weren't cut low enough so there's lots of little ankle biters poking up. And the double fall line of cloudsplitter/10th...like Chati I dislike always having to cut over as Im going downhill. And Cloud/10th is like the same thing
> less gondi cars than Gore. Snoloco probably has the stats, but that's true, right? The old gondis had those dang windows that never stayed propped open. At least the new ones don't have that problem
> a couple beautiful lift lines that are technically off limits.
> higher elevation=dense pine tree stands. Less opportunity to poke around and explore
> the *old olympic buildings around the hill---just so decrepit. they put some cool signs on them listing the medal winners and such, but they couldn't fix the door hanging on by 1 hinge?*
> All the trail intersections---constantly looking left, right, left again.
> A bazillion stairwells in the base lodge


You are totally right! The problem is the lack of attention to detail. WF has lots of projects that get 85% done, but worse, none of them seem integrated. Businesses should be their own greatest proponent to the outside and their own worst critic on the inside. The "inside" portion doesn't exist.

The Olympic buildings are down right embarrassing. I think it would be cool to ski through the start building, with pictures and memorabilia throughout.


----------



## JTG

SIAWOL said:


> Full disclosure: I'm a Gore homer....and Gore has it's own set of issues. Maybe I've just figured how to deal with them.
> 
> We do get up to WF a couple times/year for a change of scenery. Almost always early Feb or later. Overall skiing has been good for us and we've had some fun days. But there's always a handful of "little" things that annoy me every time we go. At the risk of coming across too "first world problem-y" and whiny:
> 
> parking---rarely anyone directing traffic till you're in the actual lot. Do I park on the access road? Do I keep going and hope bottom lot is open? If it's not, where do I turn around?
> walking from the lot to the lodge. The bridge is cool. But the walk just bugs me for some reason---especially as you basically walk right thru the drop off area and are dodging cars
> gondi loading a tad too far to walk down to, but too close to justify putting the skis on for 3 seconds.
> Or you walk uphill to the face lift
> shortage of shelves/hooks in the base lodge
> lockers downstairs have sloped top...so you can't set anything on top of them
> the gondi never seems to load until 830a. Not 8:20. Not 8:25. Not 8:29.....8:30
> the trees....sure they can be fun. But seems like they weren't cut low enough so there's lots of little ankle biters poking up. And the double fall line of cloudsplitter/10th...like Chati I dislike always having to cut over as Im going downhill. And Cloud/10th is like the same thing
> less gondi cars than Gore. Snoloco probably has the stats, but that's true, right? The old gondis had those dang windows that never stayed propped open. At least the new ones don't have that problem
> a couple beautiful lift lines that are technically off limits.
> higher elevation=dense pine tree stands. Less opportunity to poke around and explore
> the old olympic buildings around the hill---just so decrepit. they put some cool signs on them listing the medal winners and such, but they couldn't fix the door hanging on by 1 hinge?
> All the trail intersections---constantly looking left, right, left again.
> A bazillion stairwells in the base lodge
> Yes--I do have a list of things I do like about WF, so it's not all negative. Long, ripping cruisers. The commitment to bump runs. Upper mountain lifts move OK. The learning center--while separated--is pretty cool. Mid lodge patio. Legit terrain park. Hosting some big time race events.


I guess I have one item to add to your (EXTREMELY whiny ) list.......WF has the worst f@&cking WIFI of any business anywhere on the planet. Really, come on....


----------



## JTG

Face4Me said:


> Wow ... That's quite a list.
> 
> While I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points, none of those bother me, except this one ...
> 
> It's definitely a bummer that Whiteface doesn't allow the lift lines to be skied ... The Summit Quad, Lookout Triple and Freeway lift lines are all particularly inviting!!! Not sure if the 25 mile trail limit is a factor here or not. I may have skied one or two of these, or maybe it was just a dream.


They aren’t trails....they are glades! Isn’t that how Gore gets around some of the mileage limit issue?


----------



## 3dogs

SIAWOL, I have a solution to some of you issues,
Bear Den. Have parked and used lodge all season.


----------



## Face4Me

JTG said:


> They aren’t trails....they are glades! Isn’t that how Gore gets around some of the mileage limit issue?


I was reading something earlier this morning about this ... there seems to be some disagreement on this topic between ORDA and the Adirondack Council ... not sure where they ever landed on that.


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> The Olympic buildings are down right embarrassing. I think it would be cool to ski through the start building, with pictures and memorabilia throughout.


Yeah ... It would be nice if they could do something about this. I wonder if they could get some kind of grant or something like that to use towards preserving that history.


----------



## Endoftheline

I may have skied one or two of these, or maybe it was just a dream.  I had that same dream!


----------



## SudsNBumps

Conditions thread right...Today was a much better ski experience. I parked in my usual spot in the river lot on the back row where most of the trucks back up to the snowbank. Walked right up and on to the quad. Skied right onto the summit chair. Could not see a thing but the snow on skyward was amazing...you didn't have to see. Then I discovered Cloudspin...ooh that was fantastic. Little Whiteface Chair was running an Mackenzie was fun but I went back and lapped Cloud. Finished my morning with a run down Wilmington and into Sugar Valley Glades "Deer Valley Entrance" Fantastic Day at the Face!


----------



## DanS

3dogs said:


> SIAWOL, I have a solution to some of you issues,
> Bear Den. Have parked and used lodge all season.


That is what I usually do. Less stress and a shorter walk, although you do miss first chair/cabin up the gondola/facelift. 

Regarding the liftlines, I saw someone lapping the summit liftline last week. Snow covered it looks skiable and apparently is, but earlier in the year with less snow I noticed what looked to be a power cable running across the ground. I am not sure if that is the case, or what the cable is if not power. If that is indeed a power cable, I would think WF should have a lot more barriers for entrance to that liftline.


----------



## 64ER

DanS said:


> That is what I usually do. Less stress and a shorter walk, although you do miss first chair/cabin up the gondola/facelift.
> 
> Regarding the liftlines, I saw someone lapping the summit liftline last week. Snow covered it looks skiable and apparently is, but earlier in the year with less snow I noticed what looked to be a power cable running across the ground. I am not sure if that is the case, or what the cable is if not power. If that is indeed a power cable, I would think WF should have a lot more barriers for entrance to that liftline.


DanS;

You are correct Sir, that is a power/communications cable running across the ground and under the snow on the Whiteface Summit Quad liftline. Pity the fool that ducks that rope and gets snagged by that trip wire; Ouch!. Lots o' rocks under that snow; done there, been that.

Jus Sayin'

64ER.


----------



## tirolski

JTG said:


> I still don’t get the general idea of leaving and driving across town ... Or the drive to another supermarket example. How much time did putting groceries back, driving across town, shopping again, and then (gasp) waiting in line at the new place take? Did you really save any time? ... Stand on principle and don’t support the business that can’t get their shit together, ok. However, I’m not inclined to do that it it costs me more time.


It was the same company, different minmarket. 5min drive, just half & had and eggs. 
Don’t know if it saved time but saved piece of mind.


----------



## tirolski

D.B. Cooper said:


> Couldn't agree more with everything said.
> 
> Side note, if I'm in line for a stopped lift and see a ski doo approaching, I'm the first one gone.


Waited in line at Song a couple times last Friday. Both times due to lift not spinning. 2nd time a dude was working on repairing a snowmobile by the lift house. Another dude climbs out of the top of control tower and runs to the maintenance shed nearby. 

Figured it could be serious so hiked up to the bunny hill lift to ski back to the other triple that never had a lift line. The lift I just left started spinnin again once I was on the bunny lift. There were a lot of rookies skiing that day and we all had fun.


----------



## JTG

tirolski said:


> .....it saved time but saved piece of mind.


That’s what matters most!


----------



## Face4Me

DanS said:


> That is what I usually do. Less stress and a shorter walk, although you do miss first chair/cabin up the gondola/facelift.


Just get there early, and then walk up alongside the gerbil tube and ski over to the main side before the lifts open.


----------



## Ripitz

tirolski said:


> Don’t know if it saved time but saved piece of mind.


Peace?


----------



## Campgottagopee

✌️


----------



## tirolski

Ripitz said:


> Peace?


There are two halves in each brain. I wanted to save the nice half.


----------



## Harvey

Wx guys... is this for real?

from NWS BTV...

Today: A 20 percent chance of snow showers before 11am. Partly sunny, with a high near 12. Wind chill values as low as -15. Very windy, with a west wind 8 to 18 mph increasing to 31 to 41 mph in the afternoon.

Tonight: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 1. Wind chill values as low as -28. Very windy, with a west wind 40 to 43 mph.

Friday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 18. Wind chill values as low as -27. Windy, with a west wind 31 to 36 mph decreasing to 23 to 28 mph in the afternoon.

Friday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 17. Wind chill values as low as -1. Very windy, with a southwest wind 18 to 28 mph increasing to 33 to 43 mph after midnight.

Saturday: Snow. High near 35. Strong and damaging winds, with a southwest wind 44 to 49 mph increasing to 55 to 60 mph in the afternoon. *Winds could gust as high as 70 mph.* Chance of precipitation is 80%. New snow accumulation of 1 to 2 inches possible.

Saturday Night: A 40 percent chance of snow showers before 1am. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 24. Very windy, with a west wind 41 to 46 mph decreasing to 33 to 38 mph after midnight.

Sunday: Partly sunny, with a high near 37. Windy, with a south wind 18 to 23 mph becoming south 24 to 29 mph in the afternoon.


----------



## ScottySkis

Harvey up just saw their Facebook post shows a lot of snow aice face now


----------



## JTG

I take it you are planning to maybe ski WF on Saturday?

That’s the forecast for the Observatory at 4800. Forecast winds up there are worse than at 3500 and below. I often get nervous when I see the forecast winds up high, but it doesn’t always translate to the ski hill.

However, even from the base to 2400 winds (gusts at least) are forecast in the 30mph+/- range out of the S/WSW, so it looks to be on the windy side. Our resident WF experts can weigh in on how those kinds of winds from that direction generally impact lifts.

Does look like a maybe snow at the summit with rain from mid down, with generally light amounts either way.


----------



## Harvey

Not really sure what I am up to, I just figure if NWS point forecast shows anything like 35+mph, it usually mean pretty big wind.

Personally never seen 70mph in the forecast outside of a named storm.


----------



## JTG

Harvey said:


> Not really sure what I am up to, I just figure if NWS point forecast shows anything like 35+mph, it usually mean pretty big wind.
> 
> Personally never seen 70mph in the forecast outside of a named storm.


It’s hard to tell sometimes. Not unusual that I’ve seen 65mph winds forecast for 4800, and got concerned about potential wind holds (and packed skins just in case), only to have things be ok on the hill. Wind direction matters.

If I was skiing WF this weekend (I’m not) it would probably be fine.....but Face probably is, which means there will undoubtedly be some kind of frustrating wind holds or other operational diarrhea!


----------



## Face4Me

ScottySkis said:


> Harvey up just saw their Facebook post shows a lot of snow aice face now


Never believe their Facebook page ... There was a little burst that came through (Lake Placid) this morning and it snowed for a bit, but didn't really amount to anything. If you look at the webcam right now, you'll see partly cloudy skies and light snow showers.

As for Saturday, forecast right now is not looking great .. it may be OK in the morning, but they're calling for a change over to rain in the afternoon. As for the winds ... you just never know ... I've been there some days where the wind is whipping like crazy, but the lifts are running, and other days, where there seems to be very little wind and everything is shut down.

I decided to take tomorrow off from work, figuring the weekend doesn't look too good.


----------



## Ripitz

JTG said:


> got concerned about potential wind holds (and packed skins just in case),


I went up one morning with a friend on a windy day and got blown backwards with skins on. I never knew that was even possible. It was somewhere around the mid lodge where there’s a wicked funnel. Maybe Upper Valley or Summit Express. We made it to the Summit Patrol shack where there was a patroller who had been stuck up there for hours. We ended up having a great run with ice rink conditions on one side of the trail and 5 ft drifts on the other. I doubt they opened the upper lifts that day. The wind clocked 70+ on Little Whiteface. We weren’t gonna stick around to find out. We took off and had a nice quiet sunny day at Cascade XC.


----------



## Harvey

Face4Me said:


> I decided to take tomorrow off from work, figuring the weekend doesn't look too good.


That's what I was thinking.


----------



## Face4Me

Harvey said:


> That's what I was thinking.


Let me know if you come up ... I'm definitely going to be there.


----------



## Harvey

I was thinking Gore for Friday, warm, could help bring more trees into play.





Come down?

WF still showing "snow" at elevation for Sat:


----------



## Face4Me

Harvey said:


> I was thinking Gore for Friday, warm, could help bring more trees into play.
> 
> Come down?


VERY tempting ... Let me think about it ... I'll get back to you.


----------



## Face4Me

Harvey said:


> I was thinking Gore for Friday, warm, could help bring more trees into play.
> 
> Come down?





Harvey said:


> Face4Me said:
> 
> 
> 
> VERY tempting ... Let me think about it ... I'll get back to you.
Click to expand...

I'm in!!! Send me a PM ... let me know when & where to meet you. 

Great idea ... Thanks for suggesting it!


----------



## Tjf1967

Oh boy. Keep an eye on him Harv. Whenever trouble happens face is somewhere in the background.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tjf1967 said:


> Oh boy. Keep an eye on him Harv. Whenever trouble happens face is somewhere in the background.



It's the AzzClown factor

You guys simply can't help it


----------



## JTG

Face4Me said:


> I'm in!!! Send me a PM ... let me know when & where to meet you.
> 
> Great idea ... Thanks for suggesting it!


You guys doing this Friday or Saturday?

Not seeing much warm on Friday. Saturday may get to mid 30s, but things may stay firm for a while after teens overnight?


----------



## Grillman

Face4Me said:


> Exactly ... Under normal circumstances, when you ski Whiteface, you never go back to the bottom ... The only reason to do that is if you want to go to the main lodge for lunch, OR, if you want to ski the Wilmington Trail. This is one of the BEST things about the layout at Whiteface ... When all the lifts are running, especially if Hoyt's High and/or Lookout Below are open so you can lap the Lookout Triple, you can always find a lift that has a minimal wait, even on the most crowded days.


At the bottom of Wilmington, you can cut over to Freeway. I did that last Saturday, only to find....


----------



## Face4Me

Grillman said:


> At the bottom of Wilmington, you can cut over to Freeway. I did that last Saturday, only to find....


Valvehouse Road I assume? Nice ... That never occurred to me ... or anyone else I know for that matter.


----------



## NorEaster27

Dumping today?


----------



## Cork

64ER said:


> DanS;
> 
> You are correct Sir, that is a power/communications cable running across the ground and under the snow on the Whiteface Summit Quad liftline. Pity the fool that ducks that rope and gets snagged by that trip wire; Ouch!. Lots o' rocks under that snow; done there, been that.
> 
> Jus Sayin'
> 
> 64ER.


When was the last time you poached anything?????


----------



## Grillman

CarlS said:


> New Whiteface slogan "We're not happy till your not happy"
> 
> NYS and ORDA need to figure out the aging lift system at Whiteface. Mountain run lift and Parkway lift are 41 years old. What other mountain in the east has a lift that old. Crazytown!





Face4Me said:


> Valvehouse Road I assume? Nice ... That never occurred to me ... or anyone else I know for that matter.


it works well.


----------



## Face4Me

Grillman said:


> it works well.


Must be a little like Frogger ? ... Trying to get across Lower Valley with missiles ⛷️ coming at you from Tower 10 hill!!!


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

Summit quad and Lookout on wind hold....


----------



## 3dogs

Little whiteface line! Freeway just as bad and only loading every other chair


----------



## DanS

Hopefully the skiing is good. How is the snow surface?


----------



## Kevin

DanS said:


> Hopefully the skiing is good. How is the snow surface?


Gondola running without people in it. Snow is getting little sloppy with rain, better up mid. Summit is closed. :-(


----------



## DanS

I skied a little bit at WF this morning. Groomers were not as bad as I thought they were going to be--doesn't mean they were great, but it wasn't icy death. Skied a few moguls, they were very firm, but still skiable, but these were fairly low angle. I imagine the steeper moguls would be quite challenging, but I didn't do any. The stuff that was ungroomed but not with formed moguls did not really look skiable, maybe skateable/snowshoeable.

It was pretty warm..high 30s..maybe later in the day things got softer, but I left before then.


----------



## Kevin

DanS said:


> I skied a little bit at WF this morning. Groomers were not as bad as I thought they were going to be--doesn't mean they were great, but it wasn't icy death. Skied a few moguls, they were very firm, but still skiable, but these were fairly low angle. I imagine the steeper moguls would be quite challenging, but I didn't do any. The stuff that was ungroomed but not with formed moguls did not really look skiable, maybe skateable/snowshoeable.
> 
> It was pretty warm..high 30s..maybe later in the day things got softer, but I left before then.


Conditions were beautiful today! Everything softened up nicely able to ski skyward all day. Usually dead icy by afternoon. Didn’t hurt that my skis were freshly tuned and bit into everything.


----------



## DanS

Kevin said:


> Conditions were beautiful today! Everything softened up nicely able to ski skyward all day. Usually dead icy by afternoon. Didn’t hurt that my skis were freshly tuned and bit into everything.


Awesome! Glad to hear it.


----------



## Harvey

3dogs said:


> Little whiteface line! Freeway just as bad and only loading every other chair


Never seen that.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Given today's WF report.....
_3/2/21 at 9:45am. The Cloudsplitter Gondola, Summit Quad, Little Whiteface Double, Lookout Triple are currently on wind hold. Lifts running are Mixing Bowl, Bear, Face Lift, Falcon Quad, & Coyote Cruiser. Updates as they occur._
I'm surprised I haven't seen Face4me at the hill today.


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> I'm surprised I haven't seen Face4me at the hill today.


LOL!!! Nope ... I've moved back downstate ... Will still be going up to ski on weekends though.

A friend texted me this morning from Whiteface ... "It's not icy ... it's ice".


----------



## Cork

Today was truly a tale of two mountains, the on piste, and the off piste. 
On piste had some fresh on top of boiler plate, and between that and pea soup fog, NO Bueno!
Coudsplitter Glades on the other hand was off the hook amazing!!! Boot top to knee deep dense pow! We lapped that along with High Country, and finished up with a delicious dessert of the upper Freeway liftline! (Yo 64'er, yeah it was fucking good)


----------



## adrider83

Cork said:


> Today was truly a tale of two mountains, the on piste, and the off piste.
> On piste had some fresh on top of boiler plate, and between that and pea soup fog, NO Bueno!
> Coudsplitter Glades on the other hand was off the hook amazing!!! Boot top to knee deep dense pow! We lapped that along with High Country, and finished up with a delicious dessert of the upper Freeway liftline! (Yo 64'er, yeah it was fucking good)


I know that story! Fills in so well there. Couple inches can ski like a true powder day!


----------



## MarzNC

Asking for someone else . . .
any recommendations for a snowboard instructor at Whiteface? For a tween boy who is on the shy side.


----------



## 64ER

MarzNC said:


> Asking for someone else . . .
> any recommendations for a snowboard instructor at Whiteface? For a tween boy who is on the shy side.


MarzNC,

I coach skiing @ Gore, not Whiteface, the crew I used to know @ the Face has changed over the years, sorry I can't help you out there. However, if your friend is looking for a great day of riding with solid Silver & Gold Snowboard coaches @ Gore in North Creek, I can direct you in the right direction.

All The Best, 64ER


----------



## Face4Me

Unfortunately, the February party is over ... Conditions are back to more typical Whiteface conditions. Things were pretty good early on, a mix of frozen granular with some areas of packed powder, but by late morning, things were skied off in all the usual places. There were still some good spots to be found, but the beautiful conditions we had through most of February are gone ... at least for now.

There were some lift delays in the morning on the Summit Quad, Little Whiteface and Lookout Mountain lifts (it wouldn't be Whiteface without them), but by about 10:00 am, everything was running. Not really sure what the delays were about ... they'll probably say it was wind, but .... no.

It was a "strangely" cold day today ... I had to take two breaks to warm up ... the temperature wasn't particularly cold, but there was just something about the day that made it feel much colder than it actually was. Ran into several NYSkiBlog people, and everyone had the same feeling today ... very strange indeed!


----------



## snoloco

I was there too. Definitely icy conditions pretty much everywhere. If they don't have multiple lift delays or problems, it's by accident.


----------



## DanS

Face4Me said:


> Unfortunately, the February party is over ... Conditions are back to more typical Whiteface conditions. Things were pretty good early on, a mix of frozen granular with some areas of packed powder, but by late morning, things were skied off in all the usual places. There were still some good spots to be found, but the beautiful conditions we had through most of February are gone ... at least for now.
> 
> There were some lift delays in the morning on the Summit Quad, Little Whiteface and Lookout Mountain lifts (it wouldn't be Whiteface without them), but by about 10:00 am, everything was running. Not really sure what the delays were about ... they'll probably say it was wind, but .... no.
> 
> It was a "strangely" cold day today ... I had to take two breaks to warm up ... the temperature wasn't particularly cold, but there was just something about the day that made it feel much colder than it actually was. Ran into several NYSkiBlog people, and everyone had the same feeling today ... very strange indeed!


Yes, this is a spot on report.


----------



## DanS

The mountain skied much better today than yesterday. The sun being out and no wind helped a ton. Groomers were good, but definitely became slick after noon. Only ungroomed stuff I did was:
high country glades- OK, definitely skiable, but not great
bumps on Victori- not awesome, but unbelievably better than yesterday. Yesterday I was of the opinion that they should just groom them and reset, but I was pleasantly surprised with how well they skied today.


----------



## Face4Me

Blue skies & sunshine ... They actually started loading the lifts a few minutes EARLY!!!!! I only stayed until about 11:00, but it was a very good morning!


----------



## Duck

Great day, spring skiing doesn't get any better


----------



## gorgonzola

Awesome bluebird day after the wind settled a bit and lifts got running. Skyward was sublime for a few runs between thaw and set up.


----------



## gorgonzola

Firm and fast morning was good as long as you stayed on edge, another gorgeous bluebird day. Afternoon sugah not so sweet...

First Ski3 card issues today day 5, had to get a new card. Gondi was delayed (still grooming?) so didn’t really delay anything...


----------



## snowalrus

I'll be at Whiteface for the first time tomorrow. It looks like there's a risk of wind holds in the afternoon. Which lifts are most prone to going on hold? Wondering how to plan out my day.


----------



## Ripitz

snowalrus said:


> Which lifts are most prone to going on hold?


That’s the magical mystery of Whiteface in a nutshell... good luck!


----------



## Face4Me

gorgonzola said:


> Firm and fast morning was good as long as you stayed on edge, another gorgeous bluebird day. Afternoon sugah not so sweet...


+1

From what I heard, the Little Whiteface chair wasn't running in the morning due to staffing issues. When the racers finished their training at around noon, they moved the lifties from the Freeway Chair to Little Whiteface. Also heard that this might have been the final weekend for the Lookout Chair, but I wouldn't take that to the bank.


----------



## snoloco

Lookout is reported open right now, so it was not the last weekend.


----------



## gorgonzola

If it was open Saturday I missed it


----------



## SudsNBumps

gorgonzola said:


> If it was open Saturday I missed it


It was reported to be open on Friday but wasn't


----------



## Face4Me

gorgonzola said:


> If it was open Saturday I missed it


It was open on Saturday ... I think it may have been a little delayed, but I'm not sure what time it opened. I was on it somewhere in the neighborhood of 11:00.


----------



## snowalrus

It was also open Sunday. This morning a majority of the lifts were slow to open. Lookout was planned to open but I'm not sure if it ever did.


----------



## Moe

Lookout was open Sunday.


----------



## CarlS

Anyone have a inside line as to how late the mountain will stay open this season?


----------



## snoloco

Ticket sales are open through April 11th, so that's the best idea we have as of now.


----------



## JTG

How much is open by then, who knows....after tomorrow it’s mostly daytime highs in the 50s/60s into April.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

They seem to be following the usual game plan. I wouldn't expect them to go too late this year.


----------



## Cork

Typical April schedule for late season at WF and Gore: Try to make it to Easter. 
And with Easter the first weekend, I would expect one or both of the mountains going to Thurs-Sun after that, providing there is still good coverage, and the connector trails still intact.


----------



## snoloco

They are going daily to the 11th based on ticket sales. If they have the snow, they might do one more weekend Thursday-Sunday.


----------



## Face4Me

An OUTSTANDING weekend!!! 

'nuff said!


----------



## Warp daddy

Great day up at The Face , beautiful weather


----------



## Moe

Great spring skiing weekend. 

Not so sure how it will look next Saturday......


----------



## Endoftheline

Face4Me said:


> An OUTSTANDING weekend!!!
> 
> 'nuff said!


Ditto, Face!


----------



## Face4Me

Warp daddy said:


> Great day up at The Face , beautiful weather


You should have posted something on the blog ... Could have met up for a run or two!


----------



## Face4Me

Moe said:


> Great spring skiing weekend.
> 
> Not so sure how it will look next Saturday......


Yeah ... Those were my thoughts as well ... The overnight lows aren't good after tomorrow and the end of the week doesn't look too great either ... Bummer!


----------



## Endoftheline

Anyone been to WF since Sunday? Just wondering how it's holding up. Top of Sky was getting bony in the ususal spot, dropping in around Cloudspin side worked well to avoid it.


----------



## Warp daddy

Face4Me said:


> You should have posted something on the blog ... Could have met up for a run or two!


Thanks man ,You're very kind , but frankly now i would be well below your pay grade skill wise and hold you up . Always enjoy reading your posts ??


----------



## Face4Me

Warp daddy said:


> Thanks man ,You're very kind , but frankly now i would be well below your pay grade skill wise and hold you up . Always enjoy reading your posts ??


I don't have a pay grade! Would have been nice to meet you after all these years reading your posts as well!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Yeesh. Down to 48 trails open today.


----------



## Brownski

What do you WF locals think? If I made the drive, is there a chance they don’t open the summit? How bad is it getting? What’s the overall picture look like for Saturday?


----------



## Face4Me

Brownski said:


> What do you WF locals think? If I made the drive, is there a chance they don’t open the summit? How bad is it getting? What’s the overall picture look like for Saturday?


This was from today's conditions report:

3/26/2021 | 1:00pm The Cloudsplitter Gondola, Summit Quad & Little Whiteface Chairs Are Closed For The Remainder Of Today. The Face Lift Quad Is Currently On Hold. Lifts Running Are Mixing Bowl, Bear, Falcon & Coyote Cruiser. Updates Here As They Occur.

I don't know ... it's looking pretty rough! 

Shots from the webcam ...


----------



## Brownski

Ugh


----------



## Harvey

Brownski said:


> is there a chance they don’t open the summit?


"Not sure yet. It will be close."


----------



## JTG

I’ve heard talk of a potential snowstorm at the end of the month. Open Snow showing 18 inches in the WF forecast next Wed thru Sun...


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> I’ve heard talk of a potential snowstorm at the end of the month. Open Snow showing 18 inches in the WF forecast next Wed thru Sun...


Yeah right. April fools.

Looks like Whiteface might not make it past this weekend. Gore isn't doing any better. Total failure on snowmaking.


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> Yeah right. April fools.


I shit you not.




It’s a long way out....


----------



## jasonwx

JTG said:


> I shit you not.
> 
> View attachment 8810
> It’s a long way out....


i looks like there will be some sort of a event... but there is warm air before it...

like the great late Richard Crena said,
It's over Johnny


----------



## JTG

I wasn’t implying it wasn’t over, Johnny......just a kick in the crotch after a dismal March!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Brownski said:


> What do you WF locals think? If I made the drive, is there a chance they don’t open the summit? How bad is it getting? What’s the overall picture look like for Saturday?


Brownski, Brownski, Brownski. Do you not pay attention to what Face reports? There's a huge chance that there's a "natural" disaster located just south of Wilmington, in the form of wind, mechanical, staffing or other issues that force the closing of Summit.

I'm not saying "don't go," I'm saying, "be ORDA ready."


----------



## Brownski

Ha! Yeah, I’m not as ORDA savy as you guys. I’ve sort of decided to settle for a closer option I think


----------



## Harvey

Mountain froze so A is "optimistic " Summit will open.


----------



## Harvey

Summit open.


----------



## skithefaceordie

Hope it's not an April Fools Joke!


----------



## DanS

I skied there Saturday, and while the skiing was good they were/are in some serious danger of losing everything above the facelift. Hopefully some snow allows for another weekend or two.

the skiing that was good was basically mushy snow. In contrast to gore, there were no moguls to be found. The snow surface was good, I like to think of it as surfing mashed potatoes with skis on. Only the follies was open at the summit, and it was pretty narrow in a few spots, not worth a second trip despite the awesome views. Hard to see how the summit is going to stay open Much longer.


----------



## skithefaceordie

DanS said:


> I skied there Saturday, and while the skiing was good they were/are in some serious danger of losing everything above the facelift. Hopefully some snow allows for another weekend or two.
> 
> the skiing that was good was basically mushy snow. In contrast to gore, there were no moguls to be found. The snow surface was good, I like to think of it as surfing mashed potatoes with skis on. Only the follies was open at the summit, and it was pretty narrow in a few spots, not worth a second trip despite the awesome views. Hard to see how the summit is going to stay open Much longer.


Yeah I skied Whiteface Thursday when the real bleeding started. No denying it will be tough, but pushing around a good 6-10 to places where it is needed could be a big help. Ultimately the weekend of the 10th-11th is dependent on what happens next week, but it's definitely north of a snowball's chance down under.


----------



## Moe

They will smear it around for the next couple of weekends but consistently good spring skiing is gone. We were there last Saturday. Summit was shot. Wilderness had some good runs if you could get there. Top of Mt. Run was rough. Parkway to the mid of Mt. Run was a better option. 

If you are the type that likes to ski until you are in the mud there are a few weeks left. If not the skis should go back into the shed / garage until next year. Overall it was a good year. Great February skiing and a disappointing March. All good considering six months ago nobody knew what to expect.


----------



## skithefaceordie

Moe said:


> They will smear it around for the next couple of weekends but consistently good spring skiing is gone. We were there last Saturday. Summit was shot. Wilderness had some good runs if you could get there. Top of Mt. Run was rough. Parkway to the mid of Mt. Run was a better option.
> 
> If you are the type that likes to ski until you are in the mud there are a few weeks left. If not the skis should go back into the shed / garage until next year. Overall it was a good year. Great February skiing and a disappointing March. All good considering six months ago nobody knew what to expect.


Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, for sure!


----------



## ADKmike

I’m thinking this Saturday could be good if this storm pans out...temps warm up to 40s and sun...seriously thinking about going for one last day of the season


----------



## Bandit

About 3” on top of little whiteface this morning, maybe 4”
at the summit by the time chair 6 finally started running at 11.

It was fun but approach and all the trails off it were closed, a few inches on top of refrozen. We tried Northway as a test and it was not so great. From LW it was just Essex and Excelsior. Essex was pretty fun though. Variable conditions on the way down. 

Yesterday and Tuesday Mtn run, wilderness, approach and northway were all skiing good.

It’s a bummer the blowtorch came through last week. Skyward is closed, top 50’ is grass but below it looks good. There are still some fun turns to be had but it’s thin in places for sure.


----------



## skithefaceordie

Yeah, I concur. Today wasn't anything crazy...hopefully they will be able to work out Skyward and at least allow access from the Dead Wood. There's still good stuff in there if you can get past the top, and thankfully Victoria remains continuous. We still have a little gas in the tank...hope it lasts/can be harvested, even if inevitably thinning.


----------



## DanS

Pretty fun day today. By 10:30 most surfaces were spring like, and made for some good turns. Warm temps and awesome views. Unfortunately there were no bumps anywhere, which was not a big surprise given that there were none last weekend as well.


----------



## ADKmike

Great day yesterday, started off a little cold but full on blue sky and sun...snow softened...and what I think is our last day of the season was closed out properly with some deck beers at mid...


----------



## Country Gun

Whiteface closing today.


----------



## Harvey

I went to see about updating our Whiteface map for the directory:









Whiteface Mountain Trail Map, Vertical Drop and Stats


Our profile of the resort in Wilmington, NY.




nyskiblog.com





But the new map, there is something about it, just not sure:









Trail Map - Check Open Lifts and Trails | Whiteface Mountain


Check out our new interactive Whiteface trail map and discover what lifts and trails are open, and find locations for mountain services.




whiteface.com





For now I'm staying with the old map.


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> For now I'm staying with the old map.


Why not include both with appropriate captions? The two maps have very different perspectives. The new one is more useful for people who have never been to Whiteface, especially if they have kids who are beginners or are with adults who are cautious intermediates. Also makes the parking options more obvious for newbies. The old one gives the sense of the fact that Whiteface has a lot of vertical for the northeast.

Kevin Mastin is also an artist. In the same way that James Niehues is an artist. If Whiteface had gone with a Vista map, I would probably feel differently.

Mastin lived in Boston for a few years before moving back to his native Colorado. I imagine he spent some time traveling in New England when he was in the northeast. He worked with Niehues on map paintings for Keystone and ABasin. Neihues updated maps originally painted by his mentor, Bill Brown.









Kevin Mastin: Will technology replace hand-painted trail maps? - SlopeFillers


Behind every block of code or digital overlay is one simple thing: Art. Really incredible art. Art that has remained predominantly hand-painted for decades by people like Kevin Mastin. But how long will that last?




www.slopefillers.com







> _Gregg: What was the first resort trail map you did, when was it, and how did you get that job?_
> Kevin: Working for Keystone exposed me to ski maps. We were working with Jim Niehues, who I consider “the modern master of the ski trail map.” Jim was updating several of the maps which had been painted by his mentor, Bill C. Brown. Jim painted the artwork, but he did not create the overlays (trail names, lift lines, etc.). This was at the point when some graphic artists were still using press-type, photostats ands acetate overlays. Fortunately, I was already well-versed in creating vector art. So, on my first two maps, Keystone and Arapahoe Basin, Jim painted the art and I did the overlays digitally.
> 
> In 1994 Keystone greatly upgraded its mountain biking operation and I got my first opportunity to start a map from scratch—reading the maps, taking the aerial photos, sketching the layout, then painting the mountain—I finally had the chance to paint a widely seen illustration. I worked for Keystone and Vail Resorts until 1997 when I started my own shop.


----------



## Harvey

It's ok, just not JN I guess. Looks better cropped, may go that way with it.

Also many of our maps are older. When things like liftlines change (like Gore), I like to update them.


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> It's ok, just not JN I guess. Looks better cropped, may go that way with it.
> 
> Also many of our maps are older. When things like liftlines change (like Gore), I like to update them.


JN means?


----------



## Harvey

Sorry, James Niehues.


----------



## tirolski

The latest ORDA board meeting approved something about replacing the bear lift and extending it "a couple hundred feet at the base" to minimize "traffic".


----------



## Face4Me

tirolski said:


> The latest ORDA board meeting approved something about replacing the bear lift and extending it "a couple hundred feet at the base" to minimize "traffic".


I think I had heard that they are going to get rid of the Mixing Bowl lift and replace the Bear lift with one that follows the same line as the current lift, but starts down closer to where the Mixing Bowl lift currently starts. It will make it easer to access the Bear lift and won't force people to have to walk/skate across the bottom of the Fox (Lower Valley) trail.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Face4Me said:


> I think I had heard that they are going to get rid of the Mixing Bowl lift.


Meh. One fewer lift affected by mechanical or wind issues


----------



## D.B. Cooper

June update on snowmaking....


----------



## Tjf1967

Lot of success. Just cause you say it doesn't mean it's true. Every f-ing thing they've done in the past couple of years have broken ass soon as they put it under pressure. I stopped listening as soon as he said that. I'm sick of the mountain. I used to love it and defend it to the end. The BS that goes on there now is just indefensible. Fire the whole lot of them starting with safety Cindy. The only time they are not lying is when their lips are not moving.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

TJF, what do you really think?


----------



## tirolski




----------



## Harvey

It's deja vu all over again!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

It seems like they're posting monthly updates.


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

Tjf1967 said:


> Lot of success. Just cause you say it doesn't mean it's true. Every f-ing thing they've done in the past couple of years have broken ass soon as they put it under pressure. I stopped listening as soon as he said that. I'm sick of the mountain. I used to love it and defend it to the end. The BS that goes on there now is just indefensible. Fire the whole lot of them starting with safety Cindy. The only time they are not lying is when their lips are not moving.


This was disheartening to read. I envy those of you who get to experience WF on the regular. I hope things turn around there. I'll always be a WF fan though.


----------



## 3dogs

Whiteface is going to fire up the snow guns tomorrow!!


----------



## CarlS

Was just going to post that very question! Thanks for the update!


----------



## Face4Me

3dogs said:


> Whiteface is going to fire up the snow guns tomorrow!!


Let's hope they don't blow any pipes!!!


----------



## snoloco

Unless they download, they have zero chance of opening by next weekend based on the forecast. But if they're smart, they can take this week to stockpile snow on higher elevations so they don't need to spend as much time there later.


----------



## chumpomatic

I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with how close my relationship is with the OpenSnow app.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Picture yesterday.


----------



## CarlS

Certainly progress over last week.


----------



## NYSkiBlog




----------



## Harvey

I'd like to hear expert opinions on what this means for lifts:



> *Saturday*
> A 20 percent chance of snow showers before 10am. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 15. Wind chill values as low as -13. Very windy, with a northwest wind 44 to 48 mph.


----------



## snoloco

Usually 40 mph sustained is what I consider the limit for the gondola to run, but I don't have any firm data on it.


----------



## Harvey

"It's going to be a challenging day."


----------



## ScottySkis

From whiteface:
"Father winter saying hello with a 12" storm total!"


----------



## Face4Me

I don't know about 12" ... but it was a decent morning for a while ... Fortunately, the winds didn't affect lift ops this morning ... Above the Face Lift, things were pretty good all morning ... From Summit Express down was a different story ... it got skied off and blown off pretty quickly, but all in all, it was a good first day for me.

As a side note ... The new "Bear Lift" ... only one question about this ... are they planning to install a magic carpet or something to get people over to it, or will there be a shuttle bus to take you over there?


----------



## tirolski

Face4Me said:


> ... The new "Bear Lift" ... only one question about this ... are they planning to install a magic carpet or something to get people over to it, or will there be a shuttle bus to take you over there?


Explaination why they moved it.


----------



## Face4Me

I understand what they were trying to do, it just doesn't look like it's going to be easy to get to from the lodge, particularly from the lower level of the lodge by the rental shop, but maybe they'll be able to do something with grading the snow somehow. From what I had originally been told, I was under the impression that the base terminal was going to be closer to where the old Mixing Bowl base terminal was.

From the hill, skiing/riding back to it will be fine.


----------



## Face4Me

One more thing ... They were blowing snow on Paron's Run. With the favorable temps forecast for this week, and assuming they keep the guns running up there, it's hard to imagine that not being available for next weekend.


----------



## snoloco

Snowmaking upgrade paying off? This would have to be the earliest the summit has opened.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Skied Saturday also. Pretty good for opening weekend. As is usually the case early on, it will take a few passes with the cat to have a consistent surface. I was impressed with the number of guns going but couldn't tell the plan. There were some lower down on Paron's, some lower down on Draper's, a couple on Wolf. Strangely, as they dont require compressed air, the pole mounted fan guns on Tower 10 hill and Summit Express weren't working.

The completed mid station looks good. It will take my lifetime to get the character of the old mid station. I doubt anyone will notice the downstairs seating.

If tables in the solarium aren't put back, I don't know where everyone is going to sit.

There are new safety bars on Face Lift. Apparently someone thinks each leg has to be appropriately segmented with a fucking bar. And two annoying straps that, if not pulled down, continually knock you in the head, acting as a Chinese water torture. Safety at all costs, sanity included.


----------



## MarzNC

D.B. Cooper said:


> There are new safety bars on Face Lift. Apparently someone thinks each leg has to be appropriately segmented with a fucking bar. And two annoying straps that, if not pulled down, continually knock you in the head, acting as a Chinese water torture. Safety at all costs, sanity included.


That sort of safety bar drove the adults at Alta nuts when they were installed a while back. It's another reason many locals don't bother to put the bar down at all. The goal is to keep little kids from sliding underneath a bar that is down. Often someone will tie the strap in a knot. That's annoying for me because as a short adult, I use it to pull the bar down.

The choice was between the short bars or full footrests. Footrests add weight and cost, so those were ruled out by Alta Lifts.


----------



## snoloco

D.B. Cooper said:


> There are new safety bars on Face Lift. Apparently someone thinks each leg has to be appropriately segmented with a fucking bar. And two annoying straps that, if not pulled down, continually knock you in the head, acting as a Chinese water torture. Safety at all costs, sanity included.


Those are Doppelmayr's child friendly safety bars. The Lightning Quad at Belleayre has them too. Since small children can't back all the way in the chair, the idea is to put something between their legs so they can't slide out from under the bar. Skytrac and Leitner-Poma also have their own systems that do the same thing, and ORDA has both. ORDA is installing child friendly safety bars on all new lifts and seems to be retrofitting them onto existing lifts too. Leitner-Poma's system can be installed without replacing the bars, which was done on Gore's two high speed quads. Oddly, Burnt Ridge only has the child restraints on the middle seats, while the Adirondack Express has them on every seat. Same with High Peaks, which had them from the day it opened. As an adult, and having been on lifts with all 3 systems. I find Leitner-Poma's system the least bothersome, and Skytrac's system the most bothersome. Doppelmayr's system is somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Moe

I generally stay away from being critical of Whiteface when the inevitable pipe explosion happens at the beginning of every season. I understand that the infrastructure is old and it is a very demanding system.

That being said I can't help but "smell a rat" over the lack of blowing on Little Whiteface and specifically Mountain Run. It is usually the first up. I hope I'm wrong and this is just a different snowmaking pattern. But.....


----------



## NorEaster27

Thought whiteface blowing past Saturday was most I ever saw, heard they were rolling 100 guns


----------



## Moe

Agree. Very impressed this past weekend and appreciate all they do. Just curious about the change from the typical direction.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Maybe it's their way of testing the pressure in the pipes. "Hey, let's fire up Paron's and see what happens."


----------



## CarlS

Moe said:


> I generally stay away from being critical of Whiteface when the inevitable pipe explosion happens at the beginning of every season. I understand that the infrastructure is old and it is a very demanding system.
> 
> That being said I can't help but "smell a rat" over the lack of blowing on Little Whiteface and specifically Mountain Run. It is usually the first up. I hope I'm wrong and this is just a different snowmaking pattern. But.....


Think the pace of the snowmaking has been vastly improved this year. I think the pattern is different form years prior. Example is they are almost done on Paron's Run and Follies. Never seen snowmaking on this trail this early. They are also getting Drapers ready much earlier than ever before and that is a huge undertaking. Should be open shortly. I truly believe the new pumps and the majority of the pipes being the "no seam" is making the system more robust than ever. 

Also praying each night they don't blow it up!


----------



## snoloco

The first race of the season is December 10, so that's why Draper's is seeing attention so early. The report also said they were working on Boreen and Bear Den terrain before the warm up today. 

I think the early move to the summit is about getting an extra lift open and spreading people out. One thing that was always frustrating about early season at Whiteface is how for the first 3-4 weekends, the gondola was effectively the only lift open. Even though Facelift was usually open, to ski most of the terrain, you had to lap the gondola. Since it does not have very good capacity, it often had very long lines. I'm not sure why, but they were always very reluctant to run the Little Whiteface lift unless Mountain Run was open, even if they had multiple routes to mid but only one to the base. They won't need it either way if the Summit Quad is up and running.


----------



## SayvilleSteve

I was on the gondola on Friday and overheard a conversation between a patroller and a local he seemed to know quite well. I don't know the mechanics or the lingo of snowmaking, but the patroller mentioned they were having issues with the "#2 pump." And yes, Little Whiteface was barren.


----------



## Moe

I love being wrong. Website says summit is opening tomorrow and they are blowing snow on Mountain Run. Looks like the last 2 years of snowmaking improvements are paying off.


----------



## snoloco

While they are clearly expanding faster than in previous years, keep in mind that there has also been a change of priorities. They skipped Lower Northway and Victoria and went straight to the Summit and the Mountain Run-Thruway-Draper's route. They also skipped Boreen and started on Bear Den.


----------



## Face4Me

Today was pretty good ... As promised, the Summit opened with the Follies to Paron's Run. Conditions were very nice early, but it did get skied off by late morning. They were blowing primarily on Drapers, Upper Thruway and the upper part of Mountain Run ... from Thruway up to the mid-station of Little Whiteface. Some other guns going here and there. Coverage on Lower Valley was MUCH better than last weekend.

Hopefully once they get Thruway/Drapers open so the racers have a place to play, they'll start thinking about some expansion ... Essex ... Victoria ... Boreen ... For the second full weekend ... definitely a good start ... Monday looks rough weather-wise, but it seems like it's just for the one day. Hopefully they'll withstand that without too much trouble.

It started snowing pretty hard in the afternoon for a while ... probably a couple of inches so far.


----------



## Face4Me

Another good morning ... The snow that fell yesterday made a difference ... There was definitely a "silkiness" to the snow on top, especially early in the morning. 

Snowmaking now in place all along Approach ... Should have Approach, the upper part of Mt. Run, Thruway & Draper's Drop any day now. Unclear where they'll be moving to next.


----------



## ADKmike

Haven’t been on here in a while...been pretty busy! 

Skied today after being in LP through Monday’s weather and we couldn’t believe how it seemed like it hardly rained. It actually skied pretty well this morning considering Monday was a mess...First day out for us this season, looking forward to a great ‘21/‘22!


----------



## 3dogs

Variable conditions today. Some snowmaking going, mainly on open trails. Trail expansion could be awhile from the looks of things.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Rope dropped on Lower Northway, but it wasn't any good. Paron's and L. Thruway are good.
Yesterday Boreen was open to Brookside, then you had to cut across that "trail" Valvehouse Road to Fox.
Guns on the lower part of Mt. Run. Looks like it could open soon.
Pretty good given the time of year and the recent meltdown. If you're here for Christmas week, there's reason to be optimistic. Forecast looks favorable the next 2 weeks. Just don't change downstairs. That stupid auto sliding door ensures marginally-above-freezing temps when booting up.


----------



## ADKmike




----------



## chumpomatic

Mountain Run/Thruway off of Freeway was good this morning. Variable but fun.


----------



## Moe

What a difference a few days (and 7" of snow) makes. Saturday was pretty depressing with no snow other than what was blown. By mid day today it was in pretty good shape for this time of year. Blowing on lower part of Mt. Run still and started on Victoria yesterday. If the cold temps hold it should be pretty good for Christmas week. 

They need to open the little whiteface lift. Hate having to go to the gondola to get to the top of Little Whiteface.


----------



## x10003q

Moe said:


> What a difference a few days (and 7" of snow) makes. Saturday was pretty depressing with no snow other than what was blown. By mid day today it was in pretty good shape for this time of year. Blowing on lower part of Mt. Run still and started on Victoria yesterday. If the cold temps hold it should be pretty good for Christmas week.
> 
> They need to open the little whiteface lift. *Hate having to go to the gondola to get to the top of Little Whiteface.*


This


----------



## Face4Me

Spent the morning at the mountain today ... conditions were a mixed bag ... above the Face Lift, it was pretty rough.

There was a new feature this morning where Excelsior and Lower Northway split ... The Whiteface Geyser ... Like Old Faithful, only different ... Apparently, they blew a hydrant!

Visibility at the top was pretty poor, but at least Paron's Run was open from the top. No Essex, Mountain Run or Victoria ... Will probably take another day or two of grooming and resurfacing for those to be back in play.

From the Face Lift down wasn't too bad. I was skiing with my son today for the first time in a couple of years ... we had fun doing laps on the Face Lift, alternating runs between Lower Valley and Boreen, and playing human slalom.

Not great skiing, but we had fun and made the best of it.

There wasn't any snowmaking going on that I saw, but I suspect that was due to the broken hydrant. Hopefully they'll be able to get the guns going this evening (they really need it!).


----------



## abe

For being "sold out" lift lines were very reasonable. Snow quality was good but in spots got scraped off quite a bit. Thin coverage on many trails, lots of rocks coming through.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

Not sure about Gore but at WF they are price gouging for MLK weekend. My wife and I just cancelled our hotel room when we saw that tickets for her are currently priced at over $200/day!! Gonna do the Cats instead. Already bought her a Monday ticket at Belle for $85 and will pick up a Sat ticket for her at Platty if they can get more then 2 trails open ?


----------



## Brownski

Holy crap


----------



## Face4Me

Awesome ... I was starting to think they'd never get Coyote Cut and Flying Squirrel opened!!!


----------



## Andy_ROC

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Not sure about Gore but at WF they are price gouging for MLK weekend. My wife and I just cancelled our hotel room when we saw that tickets for her are currently priced at over $200/day!! Gonna do the Cats instead. Already bought her a Monday ticket at Belle for $85 and will pick up a Sat ticket for her at Platty if they can get more then 2 trails open ?


I don't see that for WF tickets. You must have had two selected


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

They must have just released more tickets? I see the same thing now for those dates, but here's what I see for today for example


----------



## Andy_ROC

TheGreatAbyss said:


> They must have just released more tickets? I see the same thing now for those dates, but here's what I see for today for example


Right. But what I'm saying is they aren't $212 each... that's the total price for TWO tickets. They were never $200 each.


----------



## tirolski

Andy_ROC said:


> Right. But what I'm saying is they aren't $212 each... that's the total price for TWO tickets. They were never $200 each.


That new maths gets hard to explains sometimes.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

Andy_ROC said:


> Right. But what I'm saying is they aren't $212 each... that's the total price for TWO tickets. They were never $200 each.


Are you guys blind? Look at the image, 2 day lift ticket, 1 adult. Today and tomorrow are highlighted showing $414. When I clicked on other days in the future, including over MLK it goes down to about ~$100/day.

What's also interesting is if I select 1 day lift tickets then it is ~$100/day for both days. So something is screwed up with the two consecutive day pricing. It's still there for today and tomorrow, try it from a mobile device.


----------



## Andy_ROC

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Are you guys blind? Look at the image, 2 day lift ticket, 1 adult. Today and tomorrow are highlighted showing $414. When I clicked on other days in the future, including over MLK it goes down to about ~$100/day.
> 
> What's also interesting is if I select 1 day lift tickets then it is ~$100/day for both days. So something is screwed up with the two consecutive day pricing. It's still there for today and tomorrow, try it from a mobile device.


Well not blind but I wasn't reproducing the bug until now. Probably requires a call to them.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

> Andy_ROC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well not blind but I wasn't reproducing the bug until now. Probably requires a call to them.
Click to expand...

Thank You

Were doing the cats at this point. Less drive and hopefully less crowds (at least at platty if they can some of the steeps open b then)


----------



## tirolski

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Are you guys blind? Look at the image, 2 day lift ticket, 1 adult. Today and tomorrow are highlighted showing $414. When I clicked on other days in the future, including over MLK it goes down to about ~$100/day.
> 
> What's also interesting is if I select 1 day lift tickets then it is ~$100/day for both days. So something is screwed up with the two consecutive day pricing. It's still there for today and tomorrow, try it from a mobile device.


Seems The Great Abyss is on to somethin.
1 person2 consecutive days at WF starting today =$414.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

tirolski said:


> Seems The Great Abyss is on to somethin.
> 1 person2 consecutive days at WF starting today =$414.
> View attachment 11647


I saw the same thing last night for over MLK


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

Based on the UI I'm guessing each day has separate buckets of tickets for 1,2,3... consecutive days, and pricing is based on availability of each bucket regardless of the others. What they should do is calculate the blended price based on the availability of each day. My math's are just fine, ORDAs math's suck


----------



## Ripitz

Maybe they are trying to compete with Vail


----------



## Andy_ROC

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Based on the UI I'm guessing each day has separate buckets of tickets for 1,2,3... consecutive days, and pricing is based on availability of each bucket regardless of the others. What they should do is calculate the blended price based on the availability of each day. My math's are just fine, ORDAs math's suck


Just remember, it's a feature not a bug. ?


----------



## abe

Significantly more crowded and icy than yesterday. No chairs running on little whiteface (except gondy). They are trying to make quads for each cabin. 1/2" of wet snow this morning.


----------



## Face4Me

Skied from 8:30 - 10:30 this morning ... 

With a couple of exceptions here & there I thought conditions were very good. Very low visibility at the top, but the conditions on Paron's Run were good. Approach to Mountain Run to Thruway to Draper's Drop was quite good, but only got to ski it once.

If they're not going to have Freeway and/or Little Whiteface running, it's going to be a very long, disappointing season. This photo was taken at 10:30. Note the line for the Face Lift going all the way back to the front of the NYSEF building, and the line for the Gondola through the corral snake and almost halfway up the hill to the Face Lift. 

The new UMP proposes a new lift from Bear Den to the mid-station lodge ... why spend taxpayer dollars on another lift when you can't even run the ones you have???


----------



## abe

Face4Me said:


> Skied from 8:30 - 10:30 this morning ...
> 
> With a couple of exceptions here & there I thought conditions were very good. Very low visibility at the top, but the conditions on Paron's Run were good. Approach to Mountain Run to Thruway to Draper's Drop was quite good, but only got to ski it once.
> 
> If they're not going to have Freeway and/or Little Whiteface running, it's going to be a very long, disappointing season. This photo was taken at 10:30. Note the line for the Face Lift going all the way back to the front of the NYSEF building, and the line for the Gondola through the corral snake and almost halfway up the hill to the Face Lift.
> 
> The new UMP proposes a new lift from Bear Den to the mid-station lodge ... why spend taxpayer dollars on another lift when you can't even run the ones you have???
> 
> View attachment 11650


Paron's Run got scraped and blown off, by noon it was solid ice most of the way down, ski patrol closed it at like 1.

Thruway was best run of the day even at close not super icy

Excelsior was great all day, much better than valley run, if they are worried about too much traffic on it idk why they couldn't open freeway lift at leaat, that would provide a 3rd way out of the base area and it's not like those trails had too much traffic


----------



## Moe

Face4Me said:


> Skied from 8:30 - 10:30 this morning ...
> 
> With a couple of exceptions here & there I thought conditions were very good. Very low visibility at the top, but the conditions on Paron's Run were good. Approach to Mountain Run to Thruway to Draper's Drop was quite good, but only got to ski it once.
> 
> If they're not going to have Freeway and/or Little Whiteface running, it's going to be a very long, disappointing season. This photo was taken at 10:30. Note the line for the Face Lift going all the way back to the front of the NYSEF building, and the line for the Gondola through the corral snake and almost halfway up the hill to the Face Lift.
> 
> The new UMP proposes a new lift from Bear Den to the mid-station lodge ... why spend taxpayer dollars on another lift when you can't even run the ones you have???
> 
> View attachment 11650


Geez.... Can't wait for Friday.


----------



## abe

Much less crowded than yesterday despite being "sold out" rather than "limited." Passholders must have come for the snow yesterday. Much better surface today & Little whiteface chair is open! Good resurface on summit trails


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Paron's already skied off, but what do you expect Christmas week. 2 guns on Riva Ridge. Other guns being staged on Skyward. Nice to have LWF chair open.


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> Nice to have LWF chair open.


Maybe they read my post!!!


----------



## 3dogs

Face4Me said:


> Maybe they read my post!!!


Can you post about no snowmaking on Wilderness & Mac


----------



## tirolski

Face4Me said:


> Maybe they read my post!!!


Attaboy ? ❄️ ❄️


----------



## snoloco

3dogs said:


> Can you post about no snowmaking on Wilderness & Mac


Or Wilmington


----------



## Cork

Pretty awesome day today! It was pea soup fog up to about 1/2 way down Mt Run and bluebird above on our first run. Approach, Mt Run and Upper Parkway were groomed to perfection and the 2" of fresh with the soft base and very few people provided many "WAHOOS"!!  ⛷️
We lapped those for an hour or so and then ventured off to Essex, which was very good and down to the Summit lift. Long line, and not really worth the wait as Paron's was good but a shit show of skiers that were there only for the view.
We ended that run with Victoria and it was really good.
Headed back to Little WF lift and lapped that for a few more hours and those trails were still awesome. The expert trails were in great shape today, and had very little traffic, everywhere else it was cray cray.
In the gondi line the Employees were telling guests about masking inside of the gondi, and that they didn't want what happened at K to happen there.
Skyward guns blasting all day!
Big shout to the Whiteface Mt Ops for kicking ass on snowmaking and grooming!! 
Thank you!! ⛷️


----------



## chumpomatic

It was a pleasure meeting you on the LWF chair, Cork!


----------



## Cork

chumpomatic said:


> It was a pleasure meeting you on the LWF chair, Cork!


Happy New Year Adam!


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

Here's to hoping Sky opens tomorrow. ? ❄


----------



## CarlS

Looks like Snowmaking on Skyward is on hold. Was told it is compatibility issues between new and old system. You can hear the air leaks as you ride the summit lift and we all know those leaks have been there for years. This is a major feature of Whiteface as a ski area (Steepest Vertical) and it has succumbed too poor maintenance. Total lack of Whiteface/ORDA management to recognize what makes Whiteface different from the rest and capitalize on it. Disappointing to say the least.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Compatibility?? That sounds laughable. The new pipes probably hold a greater pressure, either because they're better or not degraded. But if this is a legit reason, did nobody think about this earlier?


----------



## CarlS

D.B. Cooper said:


> Compatibility?? That sounds laughable. The new pipes probably hold a greater pressure, either because they're better or not degraded. But if this is a legit reason, did nobody think about this earlier?


Lately it seems like little thought into anything by management. Have you seen the placement of the base of the new lift replacing Bear Lift? Beginner skiers first experience is hiking to a lift. Now that is laughable.


----------



## Endoftheline

NO snowmaking on Skyward because of a pipe break on Niagara. At WF it's always something.


----------



## Face4Me

I have to admit, I was wondering as I looked at the conditions report all week why they weren't making snow on Skyward ... I guess now I know (I kind of assumed there was an issue).

By the end of last season, I reached the point where it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I've come to accept the reality that Whiteface is like the New York Jets of ski areas. You'll almost always be disappointed. Sure, once in a while you'll get a "win", but that's not the norm, and they always seem to blow it in the end.

This past Spring, my wife & I decided to sell our home in Lake Placid, which we've owned since 2003. I was done. I had decided that I'd buy an Indy Pass, and just bounce around like many of the people on this forum do, and I'd take one or two trips a year out west, to BC, Europe, whatever. We actually received an offer on our place that I was ready to accept, but at the last minute, my wife decided she wasn't ready to sell (side note ... she doesn't ski!). So, we still have our home, and I still go to Whiteface, but mostly just to meet up with friends, and have something to do. I really just don't get too excited about it anymore. I'm tired of being disappointed.

From reading the posts on this forum, it's pretty apparent that all areas have problems. The lift issue at Magic ... the lines and access road issues at Stowe ... the COVID outbreak at Killington, etc, etc, etc.

What *DOES* bother me about Whiteface (and ORDA more generally), is the *HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS* of New York State taxpayer dollars that have been dumped into ORDA, and for what? Every year we hear about all the "upgrades", and how much better things are going to be, and in the end, it never really amounts to anything. Sure, we have some fancy new buildings, and new gondola cabins (with very uncomfortable seats that everyone complains about!), but really, who actually cares about any of that? In the end, what really matters is the on-hill experience, and quite frankly, that's no better today than it was 10 years ago. Yes, weather conditions are certainly part of the problem, but really ... that's just a convenient excuse.

I know that much of this spending has been related to next year's World University Games, and maybe there will be some kind of "payback" for it, but at this point, it's time to stop "upgrading" Whiteface. Just budget the appropriate funds to *PROPERLY* maintain what's there, and call it a day.

P.S.: Harv, is there a way to change my forum name? Maybe I should be ... FaceWas4Me!

Rant over.


----------



## Tjf1967

Face4Me said:


> I have to admit, I was wondering as I looked at the conditions report all week why they weren't making snow on Skyward ... I guess now I know (I kind of assumed there was an issue).
> 
> By the end of last season, I reached the point where it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I've come to accept the reality that Whiteface is like the New York Jets of ski areas. You'll almost always be disappointed. Sure, once in a while you'll get a "win", but that's not the norm, and they always seem to blow it in the end.
> 
> This past Spring, my wife & I decided to sell our home in Lake Placid, which we've owned since 2003. I was done. I had decided that I'd buy an Indy Pass, and just bounce around like many of the people on this forum do, and I'd take one or two trips a year out west, to BC, Europe, whatever. We actually received an offer on our place that I was ready to accept, but at the last minute, my wife decided she wasn't ready to sell (side note ... she doesn't ski!). So, we still have our home, and I still go to Whiteface, but mostly just to meet up with friends, and have something to do. I really just don't get too excited about it anymore. I'm tired of being disappointed.
> 
> From reading the posts on this forum, it's pretty apparent that all areas have problems. The lift issue at Magic ... the lines and access road issues at Stowe ... the COVID outbreak at Killington, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> What *DOES* bother me about Whiteface (and ORDA more generally), is the *HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS* of New York State taxpayer dollars that have been dumped into ORDA, and for what? Every year we hear about all the "upgrades", and how much better things are going to be, and in the end, it never really amounts to anything. Sure, we have some fancy new buildings, and new gondola cabins (with very uncomfortable seats that everyone complains about!), but really, who actually cares about any of that? In the end, what really matters is the on-hill experience, and quite frankly, that's no better today than it was 10 years ago. Yes, weather conditions are certainly part of the problem, but really ... that's just a convenient excuse.
> 
> I know that much of this spending has been related to next year's World University Games, and maybe there will be some kind of "payback" for it, but at this point, it's time to stop "upgrading" Whiteface. Just budget the appropriate funds to *PROPERLY* maintain what's there, and call it a day.
> 
> P.S.: Harv, is there a way to change my forum name? Maybe I should be ... FaceWas4Me!
> 
> Rant over.


That's what I'm talking about!! Whiteface is like the love of your life that just keep cheating on you.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> I have to admit, I was wondering as I looked at the conditions report all week why they weren't making snow on Skyward ... I guess now I know (I kind of assumed there was an issue).
> 
> By the end of last season, I reached the point where it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I've come to accept the reality that Whiteface is like the New York Jets of ski areas. You'll almost always be disappointed. Sure, once in a while you'll get a "win", but that's not the norm, and they always seem to blow it in the end.
> 
> This past Spring, my wife & I decided to sell our home in Lake Placid, which we've owned since 2003. I was done. I had decided that I'd buy an Indy Pass, and just bounce around like many of the people on this forum do, and I'd take one or two trips a year out west, to BC, Europe, whatever. We actually received an offer on our place that I was ready to accept, but at the last minute, my wife decided she wasn't ready to sell (side note ... she doesn't ski!). So, we still have our home, and I still go to Whiteface, but mostly just to meet up with friends, and have something to do. I really just don't get too excited about it anymore. I'm tired of being disappointed.
> 
> From reading the posts on this forum, it's pretty apparent that all areas have problems. The lift issue at Magic ... the lines and access road issues at Stowe ... the COVID outbreak at Killington, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> What *DOES* bother me about Whiteface (and ORDA more generally), is the *HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS* of New York State taxpayer dollars that have been dumped into ORDA, and for what? Every year we hear about all the "upgrades", and how much better things are going to be, and in the end, it never really amounts to anything. Sure, we have some fancy new buildings, and new gondola cabins (with very uncomfortable seats that everyone complains about!), but really, who actually cares about any of that? In the end, what really matters is the on-hill experience, and quite frankly, that's no better today than it was 10 years ago. Yes, weather conditions are certainly part of the problem, but really ... that's just a convenient excuse.
> 
> I know that much of this spending has been related to next year's World University Games, and maybe there will be some kind of "payback" for it, but at this point, it's time to stop "upgrading" Whiteface. Just budget the appropriate funds to *PROPERLY* maintain what's there, and call it a day.
> 
> P.S.: Harv, is there a way to change my forum name? Maybe I should be ... FaceWas4Me!
> 
> Rant over.


A Face classic!


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> By the end of last season, I reached the point where it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I've come to accept the reality that Whiteface is like the New York Jets of ski areas. You'll almost always be disappointed. Sure, once in a while you'll get a "win", but that's not the norm, and they always seem to blow it in the end.


This made me laugh


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> mostly just to meet up with friends,


Is HPD still around?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

The New York Jets of ski areas. That's great.


----------



## SayvilleSteve

They are blowing on Skyward today, you're rant must have worked!


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> This made me laugh


It was intended to!!!


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> Is HPD still around?


Same response as last year ... if you remember what that was.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> Same response as last year ... if you remember what that was.


I don't. My memory is shot -- lol
Wait, did he move south closer to JackTheRipper? Or something like that?


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> I don't. My memory is shot -- lol
> Wait, did he move south closer to JackTheRipper? Or something like that?


Something like that.


----------



## Warp daddy

Ah HPD , SJ da birdman o da Dacks , where be ye ?? Come back , come back ?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Cold this morning. Very few snow guns going. Maybe 3 on Upper Wilderness, one near the mogul finish area. The guns on Skyward were turned off. Guns staged on Lower Sky. I wish they would communicate some sort of plan. I don't think Skyward will be open any time soon.

Oh yeah, the gondola and Face Lift didn't start loading until 9. Some we're waiting for at least half an hour. Snow cat appeared to be broken at the top of Victoria. That trail didn't open all day. Consequently Excelsior was scratchy early.

Imagine if a hospital was run this way?


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> Cold this morning. Very few snow guns going. Maybe 3 on Upper Wilderness, one near the mogul finish area. The guns on Skyward were turned off. Guns staged on Lower Sky. I wish they would communicate some sort of plan. I don't think Skyward will be open any time soon.
> 
> Oh yeah, the gondola and Face Lift didn't start loading until 9. Some we're waiting for at least half an hour. Snow cat appeared to be broken at the top of Victoria. That trail didn't open all day. Consequently Excelsior was scratchy early.
> 
> Imagine if a hospital was run this way?


Yeah ... Unfortunately, not a very good day today, conditions-wise. Victoria did eventually open ... probably some time between 12:30 and 1:00 ... when I came out from the base lodge at about 1:00, I rode the Face Lift up and we saw people coming down Victoria. Skied down to the Little Whiteface chair and rode that up and headed over there ... it was ... meh.

As for the late start ... And the Jets receive the kick-off ... he's at the five, the ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, he could go all the way ... FUMBLE!!!! 

Actually, after reading some of the other threads, it's becoming more and more apparent that the ski industry as a whole is really starting to turn into a complete shit-show. Rode the Gondola up this morning when it finally opened, and was talking with a guy who skis at Stowe as his home mountain. He didn't have anything positive to say about Stowe.


----------



## abe

Everything is a shit-show right now not just the ski industry

ORDA doing far better in terms of operations than Vail and even KSL/Alterra at any rate so, while complaints may be warranted, they could be doing far far worse. They seem to have more terrain open, more reasonable prices, less staffing & crowding issues, and a better safety & maintenance record than most of the competition right now


----------



## ickglocma

Any thoughts on tomorrow’s weather? Does Whiteface ever close due to ice/dangerous weather conditions?


----------



## Moe

Everything is a shit show right now..... The fact that they can maintain minimal staffing levels and keep snow making and lift ops moving is impressive -Gore and Belleayre included. Everyone I know has COVID. It is probably the same for all the people who work at the mountains. Skyward will open. Wilmington will open. Whenever they do we should all give a big thanks to the people who pulled it off, not bitch that is was a week too late....


----------



## JTG

Pretty good couple days at WF. Yeah, could use some natural to soften things up, and it’s a bit firm in places, and trail count ain’t what it should be for mid January…..but with scenery like this who cares!


----------



## ADKmike

JTG said:


> Pretty good couple days at WF. Yeah, could use some natural to soften things up, and it’s a bit firm in places, and trail count ain’t what it should be for mid January…..but with scenery like this who cares!
> 
> View attachment 12001
> View attachment 12003


Good stuff...Gonna be up thru the wknd?


----------



## JTG

ADKmike said:


> Good stuff...Gonna be up thru the wknd?


No, headed back tonight. Will be back up here the weekend of the 22nd for a couple three days.


----------



## Harvey

Face4Me said:


> Harv, is there a way to change my forum name?


I would make a change for you if you wanted.

There is a guy on TGR who lives someplace insane like Big Sky, and his screenname is StuckAtHunterMtn.


----------



## Face4Me

Right now in Lake Placid ... BRRRRRRRR ....


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> Right now in Lake Placid ... BRRRRRRRR ....
> 
> View attachment 12009


Looks like a good day to lay around the shanty and tie a good buzz on.


----------



## Face4Me

Campgottagopee said:


> Looks like a good day to lay around the shanty and tie a good buzz on.


When my kids were young, we had a rule ... we don't leave the house to head over to the mountain until the temperature gets UP TO -10 ... So ... we'll see what happens today!!!

Otherwise, I guess this is a good plan B!


----------



## jasonwx

Face4Me said:


> Right now in Lake Placid ... BRRRRRRRR ....
> 
> View attachment 12009


i'm more concerned with the inside temp


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Looks like a good day to lay around the shanty and tie a good buzz on.


When it was -40F at Potsdam in college once we put a sign on the door to the apartment.
_"Today has been cancelled due to lack of interest"_.


----------



## Face4Me

Left my house at about around 9:15 and the temp was at -15 ... When I pulled into the parking lot, my car said -10 ... When I left to go home, at around 1:30, it had gotten up to -3!!!

Conditions were pretty much what I expected ... Very firm & fast ... Upper Wilderness was pretty good early, but when I went back to it later, it was not too great ... Lower Wilderness was like ball bearings all day.

The good news was that there was no one there ... singles line at the gondola was pretty much "walk on". The other good news was that it was a bright sunny day, with little or no wind. Did one summit run, and oddly enough, the ride up really wasn't too bad. I did about 8 runs, at which point I'd had enough!!! 

Kudos to all the lifties, snowmakers, ski patrol, parking lot attendants, ski school, mountain hosts and anyone else who stayed out in the cold. It was truly brutal!


----------



## Face4Me

Damn ... Even colder today than yesterday ... about -26 right now ... I think I'll pass today!


----------



## ADKmike

7:15 LP 2” on car, snowing


----------



## jasonwx

ADKmike said:


> 7:15 LP 2” on car, snowing


Shockingly low


----------



## ADKmike

Coming down good tho should stack up


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Skiing this weekend was good. Weather was incredible and the cold temps helped keep people away and keep the trails from getting too scratchy too early. Good conditions up to the point where the shade kicks in. I find it difficult with dark lenses once the sun starts to fade.

A guy hit an air hydrant on John's Bypass late Saturday. It was capped by Sunday.

I don't understand the snowmaking. Lower Thruway - the top part of it anyway, has massive whalebacks, as does Lower Mac. I mean way more than is needed. I don't know why they shut those down and redirect elsewhere.

Skyward is still a way from being open. There's not a lot of snow on Niagara, and there's no sign of snowmaking about to start on Lower Sky. If there's an issue with the pipes, why not do Upper Northway?

I heard comments about the stupid knee high signs in the gondola line saying 6' apart, or whatever the damn things say. I saw a few people trip over them (safety hazard?). Nor do I understand the limited number of tables. If distancing is an issue, why crowd everyone into the Ausable room?


----------



## 3dogs

Whiteface never updated the conditions report all day!
WTF
Anyone ski Whiteface today?


----------



## ADKmike

I skied this morning it was really good. Prob 6” or so and dumping hard all morning. Only bad part was facelift only until 10, then gondola started spinning which was good but I had to split around 11. Great skiing even if it snowed a bit less than the 8-12-13-18 some forecasts were calling for. Maybe it snowed more after I left I dunno. It was partly sunny when I got back to the house in placid which was odd. So not the greatest storm skiing day ever but for this season so far it was pretty good. No idea what else may have opened up after I left which was kinda early....


----------



## snoloco

Earlier they reported making snow on Upper Mac. Can anyone confirm if they worked on the top portion off Approach? If so, that is the first time in a while. Before this season, I think the most recent time snow was made there was 2017.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Yes. There was a gun and a whaleback there last weekend.


----------



## JTG

Last Thursday/Friday there were at least some guns on Upper Mac.

Headed up tomorrow night, would be nice if U Sky/Niagara and U Mac open for the weekend. One would like to think they’d be pushing for that, but who knows!


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> Last Thursday/Friday there were at least some guns on Upper Mac.
> 
> Headed up tomorrow night, would be nice if U Sky/Niagara and U Mac open for the weekend. One would like to think they’d be pushing for that, but who knows!


I saw a picture of Skyward today and it looked close to ready. My next question is when are they making a move to The Wilmington Trail.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> I saw a picture of Skyward today and it looked close to ready. My next question is when are they making a move to The Wilmington Trail.


Everybody knows that they don’t really care about the Wilmington trail, which is outrageous if you ask me. If you’re not gonna blow it, don’t cut it. That’s what I say.


----------



## Moe

snoloco said:


> I saw a picture of Skyward today and it looked close to ready. My next question is when are they making a move to The Wilmington Trail.


Think they can groom it out tomorrow for the weekend? We will be there Saturday and Sunday.


----------



## chumpomatic

Skyward looks about ready for sure. Conditions were firm today but very turnable and in some spots very nice. With respect to Wilmington it seems like for at least the last few years the plan has been to have it ready for Presidents' Day.


----------



## snoloco

Brownski said:


> Everybody knows that they don’t really care about the Wilmington trail, which is outrageous if you ask me. If you’re not gonna blow it, don’t cut it. That’s what I say.


With the snowmaking upgrade you'd think they'd get to it a bit earlier. Also they did install fixed guns on it last year, which makes the initial set up a lot easier. Maybe they'll get it open by the last weekend in January (29th/30th) instead of mid-February like last year, so that would be an improvement. I question whether it makes sense to prioritize Upper Mac over Wilmington, but it's probably a case of having extra water available for that part of the mountain. In my 5 years as a passholder, the earliest they opened it was January 29th in 2020, but that was with skipping Skyward to go to Wilmington first. If they open it next Saturday, with Skyward having opened first, then that's an improvement. From what was posted here earlier, they ran into issues with making snow on Skyward, which delayed it, and they probably didn't want to move to Wilmington until Skyward was done.



Moe said:


> Think they can groom it out tomorrow for the weekend? We will be there Saturday and Sunday.


I only saw one picture, so I don't know. They have opened it ungroomed in the past, particularly when they have excellent snowmaking temps so the guns are running dry.


----------



## chumpomatic

They're still blowing snow on Skyward now. I do think they will open it any day now.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

A staff member who, based on apparel, is in the know told me that it would be groomed out and open Monday. There's enough snow on Skyward right now, but Niagara looks a bit thin.

From the Summit lift, there are some nice whalebacks on Ladies' Drop. One slab broke free. Looked like a small avalanche. No snowmaking on or below Glen.

Other than that, firm and fast today. I was surprised that it wasn't softer (not WF's fault). Was warmer than the temp indicated. Not crowded either.

Edit: Sno, I think decisions around Lookout will depend on whether they have the staff.


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## Tjf1967

You think all the money the poured into that place in the last ten years would have been better spent on snowmaking? They place should be automated and 100% open in 6 weeks. I bet their skier numbers would triple. Then you build the sprinkles on top.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Skyward/Niagara open with snowmaking and whalebacks. The Niagara waterfall has blue ice patches underneath but only a limited stretch.
Mt. Run was great this morning. Temps aren't as bad as the Thermo indicates.
Fairly thin crowd for a Saturday. One of the best days of the year.


----------



## NorEaster27

Tjf1967 said:


> You think all the money the poured into that place in the last ten years would have been better spent on snowmaking? They place should be automated and 100% open in 6 weeks. I bet their skier numbers would triple. Then you build the sprinkles on top.


Earliest summit open ever this year, snowmaking is leaps and bounds better than it’s ever been. Natural snow is severely lacking


----------



## JTG

May have been earliest summit opening…..but that is tempered by this year being one of the later Skyward openings I can remember. Glad they opened it today rather than waiting to groom it. Lots of fun with gun pow and whales! Niagara is a bit rough, bodies gonna take tumbles if people don’t take that slow.


----------



## JTG

Bit disappointing that Skyward isn’t open today. Hard to blame that on anything other than stupid people, is my guess. Perhaps too much carnage on Niagara yesterday? It was rough. Also, people putting themselves on black diamond trails when they really don’t belong there isn’t good for anyone. Upper Mac is open today! That’s good. However, the usual steep curve that is often icy was just that. Couple 15-ish year old girls on rental equipment put themselves at the wrong perch on an icy knoll….and both proceeded to slide 100 feet down a steep, icy pitch into the scrub brush and saplings. They came up laughing, but easily could have come away hurt. I’m a for challenging oneself, but not on a black diamond you don’t know if you are barely an intermediate. As they say, whatever doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, I s’pose!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

JTG said:


> Couple 15-ish year old girls on rental equipment put themselves at the wrong perch on an icy knoll….and both proceeded to slide 100 feet down a steep, icy pitch into the scrub brush and saplings. They came up laughing, but easily could have come away hurt.


Was that you checking the trail map before starting down Mac and seeing them?


----------



## CarlS

D.B. Cooper said:


> Skyward/Niagara open with snowmaking and whalebacks. The Niagara waterfall has blue ice patches underneath but only a limited stretch.
> Mt. Run was great this morning. Temps aren't as bad as the Thermo indicates.
> Fairly thin crowd for a Saturday. One of the best days of the year.


100% Agree!


----------



## Kleetus

Any intel on how skiing has been this week? Also if the wind tomorrow will close the mountain down? Game time decision tomorrow morning for WF or Gore..Gore is the safer wind play but been itching to get up to WF


----------



## Tjf1967

Kleetus said:


> Any intel on how skiing has been this week? Also if the wind tomorrow will close the mountain down? Game time decision tomorrow morning for WF or Gore..Gore is the safer wind play but been itching to get up to WF


I'm here it's been skiing well. Cold.


----------



## snoloco

Any signs of life on The Wilmington Trail?


----------



## Bandit

Skied Thursday and Friday, it’s been pretty good, minimal lines. 

Sitting in the lodge now looking at the stopped gondola wondering why I bothered. Guess we’ll hit the face lift for a run but thinking it will be cold. 

Upper and lower skyward along with Niagara have been sitting with big and often misshapen whales. Some of the whales on lower are so big they’re right up to the guns so much that the gun was blowing water on it. 

They had at least the bottom one or 2 guns on Wilmington yesterday.


----------



## tirolski

Bandit said:


> Guess we’ll hit the face lift for a run but thinking it will be cold.
> Some of the whales on lower are so big they’re right up to the guns so much that the gun was blowing water on it.


Won’t be liquid for long.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Skyward has been open a day and a half - last Saturday and part of Sunday. It's still not groomed. Lower Skyward now has whalebacks top to bottom it, but that's not groomed either. The lowest part still has relatively fresh whalebacks, so maybe they're letting those drain, but above Glen (Ladies' Drop) should have been pounded out by now. Grooming started on Lower Parkway, but that's only half done.
Appears to be top-to-bottom snowmaking on the Wilmington Trail. Ya hear that, Sno?


----------



## snoloco

The report says that they are making snow on the lower portion of The Wilmington Trail. It's right on schedule for an early-February opening. You'd think with the snowmaking upgrades they'd get to it a bit sooner.


----------



## JTG

What’s the deal with Skyward/Niagara? Two Saturday’s ago U Sky to Niagara was open, but then closed Sunday. Have they been open since? With snowmaking moved over to Wilmington now what the heck is going on with grooming (or not grooming) Skyward/Niagara and getting them open? There’s got to be a reason/story….as bad/frustrating as it may be!


----------



## Moe

Wonder if it has anything to do with the snow cat that broke down a couple of weeks ago....


----------



## tirolski

Moe said:


> Wonder if it has anything to do with the snow cat that broke down a couple of weeks ago....


Don’t know about that but Gore got 2 new ones for 21-22.


----------



## Harvey

"Groomers are on Skyward right now."

In response to 'will it open':

"There was a tremendous amount of snow made that needs to be moved. The process takes multiple days to complete. Will let you know this morning once patrol checks it out. I know they will need some time to mark the trail."


----------



## Harvey

Sky is open.


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## D.B. Cooper

Harvey said:


> Sky is open.


Take the credit, Harv!


----------



## Harvey

Sarcasm? Have I been showboating? Again?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

No, not at all. I think sometimes they need the right prodding.


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## Brownski

Harvey said:


> Sarcasm? Have I been showboating? Again?


Don’t be ashamed of your clout. Claim it!


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## Harvey

All i did was ask the question. Being able to get answers has value but im not kidding myself I'm not influencing those answers.


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> All i did was ask the question. Being able to get answers has value but im not kidding myself I'm not influencing those answers.


Yes, but when you ask that sort of question at this point people know you aren't asking just for yourself but are representing people who drive more than an hour to ski Whiteface fairly often.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> All i did was ask the question.


Ya like to ski bumps and in the trees. What’s a groomer to ya?


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> Being able to get answers has value


Right. We call that clout


----------



## JTG

Harv be eff’in EF Hutton, mofos!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

MarzNC said:


> Yes, but when you ask that sort of question at this point people know you aren't asking just for yourself but are representing people who drive more than an hour to ski Whiteface fairly often.


Damn straight!


----------



## chumpomatic

Just outstanding this morning!


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

Pretty good here today. They're blowing the hell out of Lookout below. I'll bet Wilmington opens tomorrow.


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

JT sighting.


----------



## JTG

With the Little Whiteface lift not running…..nobody seems to be skiing Mountain Run. Might be the best I e ever seen it. Skyward? Unless you keep it in the soft snow at the edges it’s not very good. Cloudspin skied well….au naturale is so nice. Gotta check out Mac after some grub.


----------



## JTG

Adirondack Johnny said:


> JT sighting.
> View attachment 12721


All those Where’s Waldo books come in handy….practice, practice, practice. Good work!


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

JTG said:


> With the Little Whiteface lift not running…..nobody seems to be skiing Mountain Run. Might be the best I e ever seen it. Skyward? Unless you keep it in the soft snow at the edges it’s not very good. Cloudspin skied well….au naturale is so nice. Gotta check out Mac after som


Dude,, is that where you went?? Mountain run?? I couldn't catch you. We were 15 cars behind you on the Gondi. Had to be you. (Green boots right?) Singles line is where it's at.


----------



## JTG

Ok, time for my call out the asshat rant. Only slightly annoyed me more than it might have just because two of his kids cut in front of my son and I on the gondola singles line to catch up with this guy and his wife. I could tell the guy was an asshat just by looking at him, and he was a shifty mofo. So this family of 4 is chatting it up in the singles line. As they get close to the front they all huddle close for a hush, hush convo. Yeah, when the liftie call for 3 singles the guy plays all dumb, ‘we are a party of 4’, making the girl explain to him that it’s the singles line. This dirtbag new darn well it was the singles line. Another bad parent teaching his kids the rules don’t apply to them and you can do whatever you want. 

Rant over.


----------



## JTG

Adirondack Johnny said:


> Dude,, is that where you went?? Mountain run?? I couldn't catch you. We were 15 cars behind you on the Gondi. Had to be you. (Green boots right?) Singles line is where it's at.


Yup, that was us. I’m trying to keep up with my 20 year old son, which I can’t do any longer…..so we are moving pretty fast! In the Cloudspin Lounge now.


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

JTG said:


> Yup, that was us. I’m trying to keep up with my 20 year old son, which I can’t do any longer…..so we are moving pretty fast! In the Cloudspin Lounge now.


Over at Bear Den/ Growler to avoid the crowd. Headed down to gondi now. These little shits think they're fast!


----------



## JTG

My son is pretty f’in fast. He’s cruising on my Ripsticks. Time to spend some $$.

We will probably be headed to the gondola in 10 min or so, if you wanna try and hook up.


----------



## Adirondack Johnny

JTG said:


> Ok, time for my call out the asshat rant. Only slightly annoyed me more than it might have just because two of his kids cut in front of my son and I on the gondola singles line to catch up with this guy and his wife. I could tell the guy was an asshat just by looking at him, and he was a shifty mofo. So this family of 4 is chatting it up in the singles line. As they get close to the front they all huddle close for a hush, hush convo. Yeah, when the liftie call for 3 singles the guy plays all dumb, ‘we are a party of 4’, making the girl explain to him that it’s the singles line. This dirtbag new darn well it was the singles line. Another bad parent teaching his kids the rules don’t apply to them and you can do whatever you want.
> 
> Rant over.


Let's kick his ass! 😆


----------



## JTG

Adirondack Johnny said:


> Let's kick his ass! 😆


I saw you….but it was too f’in cold to get my camera out. Asshat wasn’t there, so you didn’t miss any beat down!


----------



## chumpomatic

JTG said:


> Ok, time for my call out the asshat rant. Only slightly annoyed me more than it might have just because two of his kids cut in front of my son and I on the gondola singles line to catch up with this guy and his wife. I could tell the guy was an asshat just by looking at him, and he was a shifty mofo. So this family of 4 is chatting it up in the singles line. As they get close to the front they all huddle close for a hush, hush convo. Yeah, when the liftie call for 3 singles the guy plays all dumb, ‘we are a party of 4’, making the girl explain to him that it’s the singles line. This dirtbag new darn well it was the singles line. Another bad parent teaching his kids the rules don’t apply to them and you can do whatever you want.
> 
> Rant over.


I say something if someone tries to cut on the singles line. Usually something like, "Hey this is the singles line. You're welcome to wait for your friends but they are not cutting in front of the rest of us here". I haven't found it to be that common at WF though, but back in California where I grew up....sooo many DBs.


----------



## snoloco

I've seen that before. It pisses me off a lot. But if I were the one to post about it, some of you who agree with JTGs post would flame me as being "entitled" or "spoiled".


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> I've seen that before. It pisses me off a lot. But if I were the one to post about it, some of you who agree with JTGs post would flame me as being "entitled" or "spoiled".



Respecting rules that are for the good of all is the opposite of entitled or spoiled.


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## snoloco

Go look in the covid threads and see the kind of responses that I got for saying that on busy days, chairs need to be filled, which is a rule that is in place for the good of all (shorter lines).


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> Go look in the covid threads and see the kind of responses that I got for saying that on busy days, chairs need to be filled, which is a rule that is in place for the good of all (shorter lines).



No thanks.

It snowed. We don't need no stinkin covid thread.


----------



## JTG

Sno, if I thought you could discern the difference between 1) complaining about mountain operations, their shortfalls, and how it “affects” you and 2) observing a selfish jackass in operation, teaching his kids to be spoiled, entitled twats who don’t think the rules apply to them, or that operating rules should be changed to satisfy their selfish “needs” I’d explain it to you. 

Rather than waste my time with that I’ll just let you know that…..Lookout opened a little after 1:00 today! We were probably 12th chair. Wilmington was groomed to perfection, I bet Lookout Below won’t be long.


----------



## JTG

Keeping the WF conditions going…..glades (like Cloudsplitter) could be, should be (or so a birdie told me) open. Skyward is awful right now, in some areas potentially dangerously so. Hard, wind blown, harder than hard pack, you could slide a long way if you lose and edge in places. Lower Sky was closed today because it’s so terribly hard. I love Cloudspin and the feel of all natural under foot. They set up guns on Upper Northway so they should start blowing that soon.


----------



## Face4Me

I hadn't planned to ski today, but early this morning, I received a text from a friend who mentioned that he was going to go over for a couple of hours this morning, and wanted to know if I'd like to meet him there. Initially, I was thinking no ... I've got too much work to do. I looked at my calendar and I saw that I didn't have any meetings scheduled until after lunch, so I decided to meet him there. It turned out to be a great decision!

This was far and away, the best day I've had at Whiteface this season. Conditions were excellent. Everything we skied was groomed very well. There were a couple of minor little things here and there, but without a doubt, best trail conditions of the year on everything we skied. There were also no lift snafus ... all the lifts you would expect to be running on a weekday were running, and all on time (Lookout may have been a couple of minutes late.)

The conditions on the Wilmington Trail, top to bottom, were some of the best I've ever seen on that trail.

Congratulations Whiteface on getting it done ... Here's hoping for a repeat performance tomorrow!


----------



## gorgonzola

Ditto, gloriuous day to be there today, comfy temps and hero snow across the mountain. Only complaint was they don’t sell beer at mid wtf ?!?!?


----------



## ADKmike

You’re prob better off lol. I accidentally spent $9 on a can at kids kampus. 
Insane.

BYO is da move


----------



## gorgonzola

Yea I guess pocket beeahs tomorrow


----------



## Harvey

How was it today? I'm thinking it must have been good. Trees?


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## Face4Me

I had a great day ... Conditions were ... interesting ... It was definitely the kind of day where you had to figure things out, but that said, I had my best day of the season (at Whiteface) today. Didn't go into the trees at all, but found really good snow all day on Essex, Victoria (for most of the day) and Skyward.

Some lift frustrations early on, and Lookout was only open for a couple of hours or so, but none of that really impacted my day at all.


----------



## gorgonzola

Other than blower pow I think I ski’d every ski And weather condition known to man, variable would be an understatement. iBest run was after a skeleton ride down the headwall of sky I followed a crow to a fun stash skiers right


----------



## Face4Me

Another very good day yesterday, in fact, MUCH better than expected. They did a very good job with grooming to deal with the change in weather. Skied from 8:30 to around noon, and everything I skied was good. Conditions were definitely better at the higher elevations than lower ... there was obviously less impact from the thaw to freeze cycle. It was cold, but not brutal, and there was no one there. Three good days in a row ... woo hoo!

I also heard that the issues with grooming over the prior weeks was related to mechanical issues with two or three of the groomers that have now been resolved. So ... This goes back to something that's been said many times before ... *COMMUNICATION*!!!!!!! Let the public know there's an issue ... apologize for it and work to get it resolved as quickly as possible.

Isn't that better than saying nothing, posting rainbows and unicorns on your social media outlets, and leaving the public to think you're either incompetent, trying to save money or simply don't care? Worse still, for people who come for the first time and experience less than ideal conditions, if they leave thinking "This place sucks ... I'll never go back", is that really what you want as a business owner?


----------



## gorgonzola

gorgonzola said:


> Other than blower pow I think I ski’d every ski And weather condition known to man, variable would be an understatement. iBest run was after a skeleton ride down the headwall of sky I followed a crow to a fun stash skiers right


----------



## lukoson

I have a season pass and know that you can't use the free or discounted ticket during the holidays. Anyone know of any available discounts for tickets during the winter break? thanks


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

lukoson said:


> I have a season pass and know that you can't use the free or discounted ticket during the holidays. Anyone know of any available discounts for tickets during the winter break? thanks


No Buddy Passes on Holiday Weeks. That is new either this year or last year. My daughter's friend found out the hard way today (different group from us).

She didn't miss much though. WF got about 2-3 inches, but it was on top of ice and/or ice cubes. Not great. Wilmington Trail was probably ly the best surface. 

Tonight the wind is blowing like crazy, so it the surface should be pretty polished in the morning. Probably sleeping in and then ice skating tomorrow!


----------



## Face4Me

Overall, I thought conditions were pretty good this weekend, considering the weather situation. It seemed to me that they did the best they could with what they had to work with. They did some "touch-up" snowmaking here and there, and overall, the grooming was good. The Wilmington Trail was particularly good, at least all of the times I skied it. Lines at the gondola, Face Lift and Bear Den were a little long, but everywhere else, it was almost ski right onto the lift most of the day. 

Skipping the details, against our better judgement, on Saturday afternoon, we came down to the base area ... it was around 1:30 or so, and we were hoping the lines might be down a bit with people taking lunch breaks, leaving early, etc. ... no such luck. We decided to head over to the new Warhorse lift and then ride Freeway to get back above mid-station. It was my first time riding the new lift.

Earlier this season, I had commented about how far from the lodge, and how difficult it looked like it would be to get to the new lift ... I wasn't wrong, and we had the advantage of coming at it from Boreen, where we were able to carry some speed past the Face Lift to get over there. I can't imagine trying to get to it directly from the base lodge. 

Sorry ORDA, but this was a cluster-*%$! of EPIC proportion (our tax dollars at work). Maybe next year they'll move the seldom (if ever) used lower magic carpet from Bear Den over to the old Mixing Bowl location to provide easier access to Warhorse.

Skyward was open briefly on Sunday morning ... The top was pretty brutal ... from the ladies downhill start building to the split was OK, and Lower Skyward was pretty good. It didn't stay open very long though. There was an injured skier on it around 11:00 or so ... the ski patroller bringing the sled to the scene looked like he was having a REALLY tough time getting the sled there.

On another note, the mountain was the closest to "normal" that I've seen it since the pandemic began. There was definitely a "buzz" in the lodges that just hasn't been there ... children crying ... children screaming ... parents yelling ... It was awesome!


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

I'll agree to disagree on weekend conditions. Ice or piles of ice cubes aren't my thing.

That being said, today was phenomenal. The summit warmed up first, so Skyward was nice. soft (not spring yet) corn. The rest of the mountain followed. Wilmington Trail opened late for a beautiful "cream cheese" surface. I'll take it!


----------



## lukoson

Was about 3” when we woke but snowed all day. Got probably 10” and was just starting to stop when we left at 4. Was over some scratchy snow in parts but by midday was a true powder day. Really light and fluffy. Tomorrow should be packed powder groomers.


----------



## NorEaster27

7 inches fresh?


----------



## NorEaster27

Sneaky powder day, should have went, although it’s likely windy


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

It was super windy in Wilmington this morning. No chance that snow was anywhere you could ski it. 😂

We skied Saturday after 10-12" on Friday. The mountain STILL lived up to its nickname after a foot of new snow.


----------



## chumpomatic

Yukon Cornelius said:


> It was super windy in Wilmington this morning. No chance that snow was anywhere you could ski it. 😂
> 
> We skied Saturday after 10-12" on Friday. The mountain STILL lived up to its nickname after a foot of new snow.


I found the skiing excellent on Saturday, especially early. Sure there were icy bits but there was plenty of soft snow for making great turns.


----------



## lukoson

chumpomatic said:


> I found the skiing excellent on Saturday, especially early. Sure there were icy bits but there was plenty of soft snow for making great turns.


Same. Niagara and Parkway and Thruway had some great snow. Never got icy there. Skyward was good early but definitely got scaped off by lunch. I don’t know why Wilmington trail never opened. I’m not super familiar with WF but didn’t see any open glades either. I assume for good reason.


----------



## chumpomatic

This morning on Skyward was one of those mornings that make all the crap we deal with at WF totally worth it. Just divine and totally unexpected (by me at least). It had some fresh from yesterday and a substantial amount had been blown onto it overnight. Soft lovely turns on upper and nice cold powder on lower. Very very uncrowded. I did six laps before I had to force myself to leave for work. I still can't get the grin off my face.


----------



## chumpomatic

chumpomatic said:


> This morning on Skyward was one of those mornings that make all the crap we deal with at WF totally worth it. Just divine and totally unexpected (by me at least). It had some fresh from yesterday and a substantial amount had been blown onto it overnight. Soft lovely turns on upper and nice cold powder on lower. Very very uncrowded. I did six laps before I had to force myself to leave for work. I still can't get the grin off my face.


hey look at that. That's my first "Well-known member" post! I'm all grows up!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

chumpomatic said:


> hey look at that. That's my first "Well-known member" post! I'm all grows up!


And two good posts in a row. How 'bout that?


----------



## Campgottagopee

chumpomatic said:


> hey look at that. That's my first "Well-known member" post! I'm all grows up!


Easy there
Being grown up around here ain't all that hard


----------



## Kleetus

Anyone hit WF last couple days? Planning to head up for Saturday over Gore for a change of pace and get in some Skyward and hopefully Cloudspin laps


----------



## Kleetus

Pulled the trigger on WF today and...what, a, day. Stellar all around. Parked at 8:20 and got a spot in the river lot. On Gondi at 8:40. 4 Skyward laps in by 9:40 on some of the best groomed cord I've skied on Sky maybe ever? 

Lines became a thing around then and were pretty long so moved over to LWF hoping they were shorter but they weren't. Lapped LWF to ski Mt Run, Mac, and Wilderness. All good but Wilderness was the pic, especially upper which has 0 ice and was awesome. 

Moved back to summit and then moved over to Cloudspin which was perfect chopped powder leftovers. Did hit a few rocks but was worth it. Good enough to lap it 4 times straight. Before taking a Powerade break at Mid. While sipping it, was happy to see somebody grilling up a storm on the lower deck. Was it Grillman? I am not enough of a WF regular to know but it was a big spread and big grill

Finished the day with 2 more laps on Skyward and Cloudspin before doing another Wilderness lap and finishing the day with a TTB run on Skyward at 3:30. To ski Skyward at 3:30 and it's still good, including lower Sky, is something I have never experienced at WF. Also, no wind, sun most of the day, and 30 degrees. Perfect weather.

ROTD's: All of Skyward, Cloudspin, All of Wilderness, Victoria

The Cloudsplitter out on the deck to end the day at the base was well deserved today. 7 hours. 30k vert. Sad to see tomorrow's weather, but headed to Steamboat on Wednesday for the first time for 3ish days of skiing. Definitely can't complain!


----------



## Face4Me

Kleetus said:


> Lines became a thing around then and were pretty long so moved over to LWF hoping they were shorter but they weren't.


The lines were definitely a "problem" ... We're pretty spoiled and definitely not used to that ... Usually if the Summit Lift is crowded, you can go to Little Whiteface and/or Freeway to get away from the lines ... not yesterday, at least from mid-morning to early afternoon. We were wondering how much the absence of the Lookout Lift was a factor.


Kleetus said:


> Pulled the trigger on WF today and...what, a, day. Stellar all around.


Didn't really matter ... agree completely ... it was a stellar day. Great weather ... great conditions ... it all came together yesterday!


----------



## adrider83

Cloudspin is awfully full of whippers and shrubs this year. Feels like they didn't trim it this season.


----------



## JTG

What’s the deal with the Lookout chair/Wilmington…..is it officially done for the season, regardless of how much new snow they get?


----------



## Endoftheline

JTG said:


> What’s the deal with the Lookout chair/Wilmington…..is it officially done for the season, regardless of how much new snow they get?


I was wondering the same, hit WF last Saturday, really good. Top 10 day for WF, Good snow, Sun, a little wait at a few lifts but not bad. But Wilmington wasn't open and it looks like they took the time to blow snow on Look out Below. WTF??


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

Endoftheline said:


> I was wondering the same, hit WF last Saturday, really good. Top 10 day for WF, Good snow, Sun, a little wait at a few lifts but not bad. But Wilmington wasn't open and it looks like they took the time to blow snow on Look out Below. WTF??


I was also wondering the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Hoyt's hasn't been open in 2 years?

Lookout Below is a lot of fun when it sits in the sun and gets soft. IMO, the mountain would benefit from having another steep trail on that side of the ridge.

The actual lift was running minimally over President's week.


----------



## Tjf1967

Yukon Cornelius said:


> I was also wondering the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Hoyt's hasn't been open in 2 years?
> 
> Lookout Below is a lot of fun when it sits in the sun and gets soft. IMO, the mountain would benefit from having another steep trail on that side of the ridge.
> 
> The actual lift was running minimally over President's week.


If they got that mountain open for more than a couple of days per year people would see there are more steep options than lookout. Bright side that lift should last for decades. It's they look at the running hours on that lift it must have less than any other lift it's age in the entire world.


----------



## 3dogs

Check the web site,the lookout chair is down with no eta for repair


----------



## Ethan Snow

JTG said:


> What’s the deal with the Lookout chair/Wilmington…..is it officially done for the season, regardless of how much new snow they get?


Funny everyone's talking about this now. I was there on Saturday as well, and it was a fantastic day. The only thing that was an issue was the lift lines at the summit, and LWF. This would have been less of an issue if Lookout was in play. I asked one of the lifties what the deal was. I was told that the bull wheel bearing at the top had failed, and that the bull wheel was beginning to wobble. It's a major repair involving removing all the chairs and loosening the haul rope. Assuming he is correct, that is most likely not going to happen this season. I've checked the conditions report several times and they always say the same thing. "The Lookout lift has a mechanical issue, and we will update you when more information becomes available." This is really code for "sorry, but no more Lookout lift this year. We don't really care about that peak anyway, and we didn't bother to stay on top of scheduled maintenance since the lift was built 15 years ago." I many ways they are lying to us. 

It's incredibly frustrating how infrequently that lift operates even during peak season. I've been to WF a couple dozen times over the last few years now, and I'm a ski3 holder this year. Only one of those days has Lookout been operational. IMO, it is purely false advertising even having it on the map at this point. They should seriously consider removing that lift and repurposing it somewhere else if they are not going offer its service to their customers. 

Oh well, there are worse things to complain about. I'll be back there this Sunday making the best of things regardless of lift status, and conditions.


----------



## JTG

Thanks for the Lookout info everyone. I never saw/noticed to notes regarding mechanical issues. Lifts not spinning isn’t always the worst thing. 🥷


----------



## Harvey

Ethan Snow said:


> the lift was built 15 years ago.


Seems like a short life for a main bearing? Especially if it is rarely used?


----------



## JTG

A shame all that snow on Lookout is going to fall and sit, only to melt (along with all the snow they made). I know it’s not something they can do (not in their charter, and they don’t have passenger cats)….but I bet they could make a good buck if they somehow could offer snow cat skiing on Lookout, especially after a storm like we (hopefully) get this weekend. I’d pay for that!

Hoping for the best this weekend with lifts and wind and all. I’ll bring the packs and skins this weekend just in case. I bet the Toll Road will see action, or maybe a mellow trek out Cooper Kiln (avoiding the steeper upper section) could provide alternatives if necessary.


----------



## NYSkiBlog

_"We are sorry to report that the Lookout Mountain Lift’s top bullwheel bearing failed, and it will not be able to be repaired this winter. While working on logistics for accessing the location with heavy equipment, we unfortunately learned that delivery of the required parts will not occur until after the ski season. We will make the repairs this summer."_

https://whiteface.com/mountain/conditions/


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Harvey said:


> Seems like a short life for a main bearing? Especially if it is rarely used?


It does, although maybe the low amount of use it gets contributes to additional repairs.
Side note: as a fellow blogger said this past weekend, kudos to Whiteface for letting people know. As the saying goes, "There's no good time for bad news and no bad time for good news."


----------



## JTG

For all you WF experts…..winds through the weekend will be out of the West. I’ve been there on very windy days when there were no lift problems. Probably had to do with wind direction. West winds are in your face for most WF lifts. Anyone know how the Summit Quad and Little Whiteface lifts fare in such winds?


----------



## Ethan Snow

Harvey said:


> Seems like a short life for a main bearing? Especially if it is rarely used?


It would certainly seem that way. I'm not a chairlift expert, but I remember Laz telling me once that they should be serviced every 10 years on average. Considering how underutilized that lift is to begin with it is very likely that preventative maintenance, such as greasing could have been neglected. It's been sitting out in the weather for 15 years. That's plenty long enough for damage to occur regardless of hours if routine maintenance, and inspections are not performed. This is purely speculation on my part, I do not have access to the maintenance logs for that lift.


----------



## Harvey

Had maybe 6 inches? Good skiing.


----------



## ADKmike

Solid day of skiing! Best conditions I skied this season and the winds held off(mostly)...really fun day skiing with my dad, brother, and others...double shot of free refills at 3pm on mountain run, tight right, runs of the day!


----------



## Harvey

SHOUT OUT to @ADKmike @Jon951 Keith @D.B. Cooper @Face4Me and @3dogs for skiing with me all day. Great hospitality from the Whiteface crew, inviting me in to your home to meet, beers, place to crash and great company. And Niagara!

Great day, going to see what I've got for pics.









						NYSkiBlog on Instagram: "Last call Mountain Run.  #iskiny  ⛷️ @mikesalnick"
					

NYSkiBlog shared a post on Instagram: "Last call Mountain Run.  #iskiny  ⛷️ @mikesalnick". Follow their account to see 216 posts.




					www.instagram.com


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Not busy today. Skyward was great early; less so by 9:30. Wind was taking a small toll with patches of hardpack in between many turns. Skier's left of Lower Sky, below Ladies' Drop was great. Cloudspin looked very good but only got at it from Lower Switchback.

Yesterday was definitely the better of the 2 days. I don't think there's a lot of coverage underneath. Warm Temps this week may cause some damage.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> SHOUT OUT to @ADKmike @Jon951 Keith @D.B. Cooper @Face4Me and @3dogs for skiing with me all day. Great hospitality from the Whiteface crew, inviting me in to your home to meet, beers, place to crash and great company. And Niagara!
> 
> Great day, going to see what I've got for pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYSkiBlog on Instagram: "Last call Mountain Run.  #iskiny  ⛷️ @mikesalnick"
> 
> 
> NYSkiBlog shared a post on Instagram: "Last call Mountain Run.  #iskiny  ⛷️ @mikesalnick". Follow their account to see 216 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com


Cool you got to hang with a couple off the AzzClowns. Good fun with those people 🤠


----------



## JTG

Everything I skied today skied very well. Of course half of what I skied today I “shouldn’t have skied”. Oh, well!

Cloudspin skied great. It wasn’t (technically) open. The rope on Slide View Glades was “down”. Not sure if it was supposed to be….but despite being thin it skied well. A birdie told me Cloudsplitter Glades looked like this…..but it wasn’t open.






Every groomer in between skied great. This morning was cold and windy. By this afternoon the wind was gone (mostly), the sun was out, and skiing was a pleasure. Looking forward to tomorrow…


----------



## Harvey

Cloudspin 2pm




@ADKmike on Mountain Run Sunday March 12 2022 3:45pm


----------



## JTG

Yesterday was…..weird?

Lovely day, actually, as was Sunday afternoon. With temps in the mid and upper 30’s Monday and the sun out, no wind to speak of, it was absolutely lovely. Soft snow and powder pockets on natural trails, zoom-zoom on mostly soft and delightful groomers, with a few spring slush turns to be found in the sun.

As this lovely day wore on, actually, the ropes began to…….go up?

That’s right. Ropes went up on Mackenzie and Skyward. Mind you, just before those ropes went up I skied both. Sure, there’s some ice out there (a lot in spots), but there is also a TON of great, soft snow if you ski (even just a little bit) smart. Yes, the head wall on Sky is an icy mess, but there are other ways to get into Skyward without doing the 100 vertical foot head wall ice surf. In fact, first time we saw the rope across the top of Sky we just went in through the snow fields and had a lovely run. Next time up they put a closed sign over there, too.

I guess protecting the public means shutting down very skiable terrain because there are stupid idiots who aren’t smart enough to keep themselves out of trouble? This least common denominator stuff is for the birds!

Yet, here is another oddity of the past few days. Slide View Glades has been open (not that it has been listed as open on the conditions report. I know…you wanna know you gotta go….but the WF conditions reporting is terrible, if you ask me….but I digress). Slide View is thin a shit, but it’s been open. How it makes sense that Cloudsplitter Glades, which have more snow, aren’t open and Slide View is? I’d say that’s a head scratcher….but it’s probably just more of the least common denominator BS.

Anywho, other than those oddities the mountain is skiing great. Get it while you can!


----------



## trackbiker

Regards the workers at Whiteface but applies to any ski area really.

The People That Keep The Winter Going.


----------



## Endoftheline

trackbiker said:


> Regards the workers at Whiteface but applies to any ski area really.
> 
> The People That Keep The Winter Going.


Anyone ski WF today? Looking at tomorrow, should be good.


----------



## tirolski

ORDA talks with APA on new amendment to the UMP.
It opens a public comment period.





APA seeks public comment on Whiteface upgrades | News, Sports, Jobs - Lake Placid News


RAY BROOK — The state Adirondack Park Agency is currently accepting public comments on proposed amendments to the Whiteface Mountain Ski Center Unit Managemen




www.lakeplacidnews.com




A link to March 10th APA meeting video and ORDA’s presentations here.


Adirondack Park Agency Live and Archived Media


ORDA’s discussion starts @ 4:06 or so.

Since ski mountaineering is gonna be an Olympic sport in 2026, and may be more exciting than curling, does ORDA consider it a sport yet?


----------



## Scersk

Having just experienced it for the first time, the placement of the Warhorse beggars belief. Way to "fix" a problem that wasn't a problem by creating a worse problem. That ol' Mixing Bowl lift made avoiding a hike very easy for lazy people like me. Now there's just… a much longer hike across the bottom of the whole damn hill. (Or, in my case, a skate through slush dragging my daughter.) How are advanced beginners, whom the new lift should serve, going to get there easily? Imagine dragging a kids' group lesson over there. It's just nonsense.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Better than expected today. Nor many people out, even though it was warm with good snow.
Lower Parkway was great. Almost no traffic meant no giant, sporadic bumps. Summit was clouded all day, so LWF (Wilderness, Mt. Run) were good options.
My guess is some ropes are going up soon. Paron's and Approach don't have a lot on them, and with liquid snow in the forecast tomorrow.....


----------



## Flatlander420

Hey everybody, I've lurked these forums all season. Figured it was time to make an account so I could say thank you to everyone for all the Intel. 

I skied Whiteface on Saturday with a few friends, it was only our 5th time at the mountain. Got a chance to ski Skyward finally, and wow, what a trail. I didn't know what I was missing! Our first 4 visits to WF we seem to have been unlucky with not a lot of trail options and lots of ice. It was nice to finally ski it proper. Anyways just wanted to thank the forum members and mods again for providing such a great resource. 

Here's a picture of me hucking it off a ledge at the top of Skyward


----------



## chumpomatic

Flatlander420 said:


> Hey everybody, I've lurked these forums all season. Figured it was time to make an account so I could say thank you to everyone for all the Intel.
> 
> I skied Whiteface on Saturday with a few friends, it was only our 5th time at the mountain. Got a chance to ski Skyward finally, and wow, what a trail. I didn't know what I was missing! Our first 4 visits to WF we seem to have been unlucky with not a lot of trail options and lots of ice. It was nice to finally ski it proper. Anyways just wanted to thank the forum members and mods again for providing such a great resource.
> 
> Here's a picture of me hucking it off a ledge at the top of Skyward


Skyward was very nice indeed on Saturday! Although I was on the lift when it got stuck for about 20 minutes. I was just thankful that it wasn't cold.


----------



## westcoastben

Heading up for what’s possibly my last day of the season tomorrow (day 54!). Anybody down to meet up?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

westcoastben said:


> Heading up for what’s possibly my last day of the season tomorrow (day 54!). Anybody down to meet up?


Sure. D.M. me.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Good Day with WestCoastBen and Face4me. The overcast weather contributed to keeping people away. A late start meant soft conditions all day. Better conditions than yesterday, including a rip down a beautifully soft, seldom skied Draper's. Simply beautiful.

Slim coverage in some spots, i.e. Approach above Mac, last pitch of Boreen, portions of Paron's.

Word seems to be next weekend, but if they can stretch to the 17th, they will.


----------



## westcoastben

View attachment 14466


D.B. Cooper said:


> Good Day with WestCoastBen and Face4me. The overcast weather contributed to keeping people away. A late start meant soft conditions all day. Better conditions than yesterday, including a rip down a beautifully soft, seldom skied Draper's. Simply beautiful.
> 
> Slim coverage in some spots, i.e. Approach above Mac, last pitch of Boreen, portions of Paron's.
> 
> Word seems to be next weekend, but if they can stretch to the 17th, they will.


Good times were had for sure! Thanks so much for the North country hospitality and for being patient. Sorry I wasn’t able to hang longer at the Cloudspin. Next round’s on me for sure!


----------



## Face4Me

Today was my last day for the 2021/2022 season. 

I thought conditions were really good today, a great way to finish out my season. 

Already looking forward to late November.


----------



## Campgottagopee

No chatter of the slides this year.
What gives?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Campgottagopee said:


> No chatter of the slides this year.
> What gives?


I don't think they were close to opening. I don't think they've opened since I bought an avalanche beacon. Sorry!


----------



## SayvilleSteve

By his logic, and definition of appurtenance, they will need to ban snowboarding as well!


----------



## Harvey

Why are they widening Upper Thruway and Upper Parkway? Is that a windy spot?

On another topic. Are these pics from Cloudspin or Niagara?









I should know since I took them. Not sure where we crossed over from Sky.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Harvey said:


> Why are they widening Upper Thruway and Upper Parkway? Is that a windy spot?
> 
> On another topic. Are these pics from Cloudspin or Niagara?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should know since I took them. Not sure where we crossed over from Sky.


Cloudspin. I can't remember. I think it was Upper Switchback.

I think the logic in removing the tree stand is to have two FIS homologated trails next to each other. One for training, one for competition.


----------



## Harvey

Harvey said:


>



I am blown away, in a good way, that they let this trail go semi-wild. Now THAT'S an appurtenance!

I thought that and Mountain Run were the best of the day.


----------



## skithefaceordie

Not much open today, just Excelsior/L Northway/ Skyward/Paron’s and Runout. Sun is struggling. Scattered pow-ish on edges of Skyward. Hoping for a window of sun before I throw in the towel!


----------



## Endoftheline

WF website says they will try for next weekend but why bother? Saturday was fair at best, only Sky from the top to Niagara, and Victoria was mixed brown rocks, dirt and snow on the top pitch, Nothing on LWF at all. And there was almost nobody skiing. 
Top of sky was socked in at time, the 2" of new actually skied well but pretty icy between piles of it. Of course ball bearing edged rock skis didn't help.


----------



## SayvilleSteve

Endoftheline said:


> why bother?


That kind of talk can get you banned!


----------



## Capt_Planit




----------



## Harvey

Who is skiing WF this weekend? ET phone home.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Somewhere between maybe and probably.


----------



## tirolski

tirolski said:


> ORDA talks with APA on new amendment to the UMP.
> It opens a public comment period.
> A link to March 10th APA meeting video and ORDA’s presentations here.
> 
> 
> Adirondack Park Agency Live and Archived Media
> 
> 
> ORDA’s discussion starts @ 4:06 or so.
> Since ski mountaineering is gonna be an Olympic sport in 2026, and may be more exciting than curling, does ORDA consider it a sport yet?


Seems folks commented to the APA bout uphill skiing in the comment period for the UMP amendment.
Attafolks 👍 ⛷️ 
Let the skimo games begin & ya gotta practice sometimes.








Uphill skiers advocate for Whiteface changes


Public responds to changes to Whiteface Ski Resort proposed by Olympic Regional Development Authority




www.adirondackexplorer.org


----------



## tirolski

According to Harv’s spreadsheet Whiteface made it to May 5th in 2018.








NY Ski Area Closing Dates 2018


Post what you know below, and we'll incorporate it. Mountain Closing Date Status Belleayre 04/14/18 closed Big Tupper --/--/-- didn't open Brantling 03/25/18 closed Bristol 05/01/18 closed Buffalo 03/25/18 closed Catamount 04/01/18 closed Cockaigne --/--/-- didn't open...




nyskiblog.com


----------



## JTG

That they did, I was there on that Cinco de Mayo!


----------



## tirolski

JTG said:


> That they did, I was there on that Cinco de Mayo!


Yup!👍 








Cinco de Mayo at Whiteface • NYSkiBlog


As the season winds down, experienced and pragmatic skiers make lemonade, finding a way to relish the end. This year — with lift-assisted skiing on Cinco de Mayo at Whiteface — we made margaritas.




nyskiblog.com


----------



## westcoastben

Anyone have insight into the trails/lifts they’ll run tomorrow?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

westcoastben said:


> Anyone have insight into the trails/lifts they’ll run tomorrow?


Based on last weekend there may be some walking down from Tower 10 hill (Face Lift). Lots of coverage on Skyward, Lower Northway though. Top of Vic was dodgy.


----------



## Gore-d

Skied Gore Friday. A nice experience to ski so late, but Quicksilver got very sketchy in the afternoon. 
Had expected Topridge to be open, but the bare spots prevented it. Seemed a shame because there was a deep snow pack on much of it.
SO, heading to WF Sunday morning. To avoid the afternoon slush on the flat bottomslopes, was delighted to read this on the WF website:
“Downloading, while not required at this time, is available by taking the Little Whiteface lift up and riding the Cloudsplitter Gondola down.”


----------



## Gore-d

Whiteface ended the year on a high note. Upper Skyward was absolutely awesome today! Perfect Spring snow. You could do anything.





The bottom of the mountain was heavy brown slush so they encouraged all to take the Facelift chair to the top of the gondola.
Excellent! 😎


----------



## snoloco

I wasn't there, but it sure looks like this May opening turned out a lot better than their previous attempt (power outage and mandatory quarter mile walk each run).


----------



## JTG

If anyone is super motivated..you could probably still link some turns on Sky!



The bugs were swarming at the mountain, but not biting. Didn’t have any bug issues when I wet a line yesterday, but I wasn’t out long (and had no luck).









Seems there’s a beaver with a thing for one particular tree…


----------



## SayvilleSteve

Improvements Update May 2022 - Whiteface Mountain


The Whiteface crew has been hard at work since our doors have shut for the winter season and our summer improvements have begun! This summer the snowmaking upgrades continue as we enter phase III of our snowmaking improvement project. With approximately 50,000 more feet of new snowmaking pipe...




whiteface.com





Update from Whiteface on improvements: 

"With approximately 50,000 more feet of new snowmaking pipe, 160 new low-energy snow guns, and over 250 new semi-automatic snowmaking hydrants, our snowmaking capabilities will be better.

We also have a new trail being cut, which we are referring to as 31a, until it is officially named. The trail will be located to skiers right of Wolf Run, adding a new beautiful beginner trail off the Warhorse Quad."

...nothing on the Lookout Triple though. Can we assume it will be up and running by mid-January?


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Doesn't look like much has been done for the $16.5M new lift from Bear Den. Maybe some soil testing. I thought the lift line may have been cut by now....
New lifts don't typically open until about Christmas (from the places I've skied). I doubt it's open for the university games.


----------



## Moe

Good. Hate the whole idea....


----------



## LIskibum91

Whiteface posted videos on social media showing snowmaking.

The trail almost looks like Paron's, but it's hard to tell


----------



## westcoastben

Anybody got a guess on the opening date? Looks like a solid snowmaking window starting last night up there…


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I’m guessing not until the day after thanksgiving. I don’t think they will open earlier unless there is a good storm, which is not in the forecast. Same for Gore. 

mm


----------



## snoloco

Belleayre is making snow so I assume Gore and Whiteface are too. They always open early if given the chance, so that could be as early as next weekend.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

LIskibum91 said:


> The trail almost looks like Paron's, but it's hard to tell


Top of Turn 2 (where the cut over to Essex is).


----------



## snoloco

Based on the front page of the website, they're working on the summit. However, the webcam shows that they are not working below mid at this time.


----------



## ADKmike

Saw on the WF website there's a new trail Yellow Dot...cutover from Victoria to Lower Sky. Anyone know what that's about or maybe have a pic, I'm curious where this may be

"This summers’ upgrades also included a lot of trailwork and the addition of TWO NEW TRAILS, Ausable Run which sits on skiers right of Wolf Run and Yellow Dot, which cuts from the top of Victoria to Lower Skyward. Our crew also expanded the width on Lower Thruway and began some of the first cuts for the new detachable lift line. This lift is proposed for installation in the summer of 2023. Not many lift improvements were needed this summer thanks to the vast improvements from the last few seasons, but both Lookout and Freeway did receive new upper bullwheel bearings and Freeway also received electrical upgrades, a new drive and a new transformer."


----------



## tirolski

ADKmike said:


> Saw on the WF website there's a new trail Yellow Dot...cutover from Victoria to Lower Sky. Anyone know what that's about or maybe have a pic, I'm curious where this may be


As Zappa sang, "Watch out where the huskies go".








Whiteface expansion vs The Recent Court decision re: tree cutting


Going to be interesting as to how this plays out. And no mention of the Freeway chair replacement. https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/new-lift-trail-work-proposed-for-whiteface-mountain




nyskiblog.com


----------



## Tjf1967

ADKmike said:


> Saw on the WF website there's a new trail Yellow Dot...cutover from Victoria to Lower Sky. Anyone know what that's about or maybe have a pic, I'm curious where this may be
> 
> "This summers’ upgrades also included a lot of trailwork and the addition of TWO NEW TRAILS, Ausable Run which sits on skiers right of Wolf Run and Yellow Dot, which cuts from the top of Victoria to Lower Skyward. Our crew also expanded the width on Lower Thruway and began some of the first cuts for the new detachable lift line. This lift is proposed for installation in the summer of 2023. Not many lift improvements were needed this summer thanks to the vast improvements from the last few seasons, but both Lookout and Freeway did receive new upper bullwheel bearings and Freeway also received electrical upgrades, a new drive and a new transformer."


You had to have skied it. It's been there for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Face4Me

ADKmike said:


> Saw on the WF website there's a new trail Yellow Dot...cutover from Victoria to Lower Sky. Anyone know what that's about or maybe have a pic, I'm curious where this may be
> 
> "This summers’ upgrades also included a lot of trailwork and the addition of TWO NEW TRAILS, Ausable Run which sits on skiers right of Wolf Run and Yellow Dot, which cuts from the top of Victoria to Lower Skyward. Our crew also expanded the width on Lower Thruway and began some of the first cuts for the new detachable lift line. This lift is proposed for installation in the summer of 2023. Not many lift improvements were needed this summer thanks to the vast improvements from the last few seasons, but both Lookout and Freeway did receive new upper bullwheel bearings and Freeway also received electrical upgrades, a new drive and a new transformer."


Yellow Dot was the narrow trail that cut through the woods on the top of Victoria and opened up onto Lower Skyward. It dropped you out right under the lift, a little uphill of Blazer's Bluff. They made that into an actual trail, to give people who mistakenly get to the top of Victoria an alternate way down using Lower Skyward, which has a lot less pitch. It will be interesting to see how they ran this new trail through those woods.


----------



## snoloco

Oddly enough, I never noticed it. I have used the unmarked trail that goes from Skyward to Cloudspin though.

I like how they now open the summit so early. I was in college when I was a passholder, so I'd go back downstate for winter break in mid-December, and it never once opened before then. Not only does it allow the entire vertical to be used much earlier, but it fixes two major, glaring flaws in their previous terrain rollout. When they would open Excelsior first, followed by Essex to Northway, followed by Victoria, they'd get multiple upper mountain trails open, but only one route to the base, leading to trail crowding. You also couldn't avoid the bottom if conditions were better up high. It also left the gondola as the only lift people wanted to ride, leading to longer lines than other resorts have early in the season. I'm not sure whether it's better snowmaking, or simply rethinking how they did things. Old habits die hard they say.


----------



## ADKmike

Face4Me said:


> Yellow Dot was the narrow trail that cut through the woods on the top of Victoria and opened up onto Lower Skyward. It dropped you out right under the lift, a little uphill of Blazer's Bluff. They made that into an actual trail, to give people who mistakenly get to the top of Victoria an alternate way down using Lower Skyward, which has a lot less pitch. It will be interesting to see how they ran this new trail through those woods.


Oh that! Yeh been thru that many times. Interesting it’s going to be a trail now. From the sound of things, I guess they cut some trees and widened it? The way it was before usually ended with a free edge deburring upon exit on the snowmaking pipe...


----------



## Bandit

.


----------



## chumpomatic

ADKmike said:


> Oh that! Yeh been thru that many times. Interesting it’s going to be a trail now. From the sound of things, I guess they cut some trees and widened it? The way it was before usually ended with a free edge deburring upon exit on the snowmaking pipe...


That's the one!


----------



## snoloco

So I was wrong about them not making snow below mid. They are, but on Brookside and Boreen instead of Valley. Opening is on Saturday with full top to bottom skiing off the summit. All 3186 lift served vertical feet right from day 1. Absolutely incredible is a term I thought I'd never use to describe Whiteface snowmaking, but here I am. I may just have to buy another season pass.


----------



## MarzNC

Whiteface will be open Nov. 19-20, although right now online tickets aren't available until Nov. 25.


----------



## LIskibum91

Damn


----------



## snoloco

In line for first chair. Anyone else here?


----------



## snoloco

Summit is open with excellent conditions. There's even some powder on the sides. Today is in contention for the best opening weekend I've ever attended.


----------



## chumpomatic

snoloco said:


> In line for first chair. Anyone else here?
> 
> 
> View attachment 16343


Wish I was! I'll be there the next three weekends and then through the end of December!


----------



## chumpomatic

Well if last weekend was the kind of Day 1 you hope for, today was more like the Day 1 you usually get. Light rain on the bottom half of the mountain. Turned to snow around the top of Facelift. The Gondola and Facelift were running close to on time and they did open the summit chair at around 9:40AM . The snow was much better up top, Paron's and Follies were both open, but visibility was poor. Despite the lackluster conditions, super stoked to get my first day of the season in. I sure do love skiing and on the bright side, there were no crowds!


----------



## snoloco

Another benefit of having the summit open is it gives you a high elevation option if you need it to avoid r*in. The snow report doesn't seem to have been updated since last weekend. I know they opened Bear Den. Did they also open Lower Northway or Essex? It looks like they just didn't get enough hours of snowmaking to finish Upper and Lower Valley. I'll be back next weekend since I'm at Killington this weekend for the World Cup. hopefully they can get even more terrain online by then.


----------



## chumpomatic

snoloco said:


> Another benefit of having the summit open is it gives you a high elevation option if you need it to avoid r*in. The snow report doesn't seem to have been updated since last weekend. I know they opened Bear Den. Did they also open Lower Northway or Essex? It looks like they just didn't get enough hours of snowmaking to finish Upper and Lower Valley. I'll be back next weekend since I'm at Killington this weekend for the World Cup. hopefully they can get even more terrain online by then.


They did open Lower Northway which was a nice alternative to the often clogged Excelsior. Upper and Lower Valley are still not ready. No Essex either.


----------



## 3dogs

Skiing was good today. Parons was good all afternoon in the sun


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Yellow Dot, the 'new' trail, is almost the same as it was before. I thought they would have cut a cat track or something.

There's another new name on the snow report - Ilmar's Alley. It looks to be the pitch to the left after Paron's ends.

I think the new cut next to Wolf is called Ausable Run.


----------



## chumpomatic




----------



## chumpomatic

Nice day at WF today. Soft snow. Victoria was open


----------



## 3dogs




----------



## 3dogs

Was a good day today Victoria was lots of fun, upper and lower valley also opened upper full of chicken heads lower was good. As we ate lunch down stairs at mid lodge a lady working said that they were putting in pizza ovens and you could no longer brown bag lunch! All brown bag lunches outside! This is bull shit and will not go over well with the local’s


----------



## snoloco

3dogs said:


> Was a good day today Victoria was lots of fun, upper and lower valley also opened upper full of chicken heads lower was good. As we ate lunch down stairs at mid lodge a lady working said that they were putting in pizza ovens and you could no longer brown bag lunch! All brown bag lunches outside! This is bull shit and will not go over well with the local’s


The last two years they had been using covid as an excuse to ban outside food from the lodges (especially mid), but it's clear now that they had other motives.


----------



## tirolski

3dogs said:


> As we ate lunch down stairs at mid lodge a lady working said that they were putting in pizza ovens and you could no longer brown bag lunch! All brown bag lunches outside! This is bull shit and will not go over well with the local’s


Just pack your vittles in a non-brown bag if ya wanna eat what ya bring & pocket food pairs well with lift rides.
Ya get a dining room with a view.
Just don’t litter and/or make a mess.


----------



## snoloco

Conditions definitely leave something to be desired today, but they have a lot open for this time of year, and are making a lot of snow on Approach, Mountain Run, Upper Thruway, Draper's, and the rest of Boreen.


----------



## Scrundy

snoloco said:


> Conditions definitely leave something to be desired today, but they have a lot open for this time of year, and are making a lot of snow on Approach, Mountain Run, Upper Thruway, Draper's, and the rest of Boreen.
> 
> View attachment 16649
> 
> View attachment 16650
> 
> View attachment 16651
> 
> View attachment 16652


Looks pretty dam good to me compared to what I’ve been skiing


----------



## Campgottagopee

Scrundy said:


> Looks pretty dam good to me compared to what I’ve been skiing


LoL
Right?


----------



## Face4Me

Conditions were very good this morning, considering it was 40+ degrees yesterday with a fair amount of rain, followed by cold temperatures and howling wind all night. By 11:00, things were definitely getting skied off, but it was much better than I expected until then.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Face4Me said:


> Conditions were very good this morning, considering it was 40+ degrees yesterday with a fair amount of rain, followed by cold temperatures and howling wind all night. By 11:00, things were definitely getting skied off, but it was much better than I expected until then.


It's all about expectations.
Expectations are predetermined disappointments, imo....lol


----------



## snoloco

Conditions did get a lot worse later in the day. Still not bad considering the weather.

Here's a few more pictures:


----------



## Face4Me

snoloco said:


> Still not bad considering the weather.


Exactly.


----------



## Moe

In past years the summit would be a month away.... Can't wait to get up there next weekend.


----------



## snoloco

Moe said:


> In past years the summit would be a month away.... Can't wait to get up there next weekend.


It would usually come down to the wire to even open it by Christmas, and they opened it this year before Thanksgiving.

It solves a pretty major deficiency with their early season trail/lift rollout. Previously they always opened multiple routes off Little Whiteface before even attempting the summit. It typically came after Draper's. This left the problem of the gondola being the only lift anyone wanted to ride, resulting in long lines. While they could open the Little Whiteface chair to spread people out, they were for whatever reason very reluctant to run it. If you were on this forum, you'd have noticed it was something I complained about often. With the summit now open, it provides an additional upper lift, and people spread out and use both.

This weekend they had the summit open with both Paron's and Follies. When you got to the merge with the top of Excelsior, you had 3 options, those being Excelsior, Lower Northway, and Victoria. From Facelift down, you had two options, one being Upper Valley, Lower Valley, and Fox, and the other being portions of Broadway, Boreen, and Brookside. Bear Den was also open with two routes directly off that lift and was connected to and from the main base. That's a ton of terrain for December 4th, especially considering the awful weather we've had.


----------



## chumpomatic

Face4Me said:


> Conditions were very good this morning, considering it was 40+ degrees yesterday with a fair amount of rain, followed by cold temperatures and howling wind all night. By 11:00, things were definitely getting skied off, but it was much better than I expected until then.


Totally agree. Firm but very turnable. At least in the morning. I was done by 11


----------



## tirolski

Scrundy said:


> Looks pretty dam good to me compared to what I’ve been skiing


Put yer Santa suit on and ski for free Sunday the 11th.








Santa Sunday | Dec 11 - Whiteface Mountain


Calling all Santa’s… Sunday, December 11, 2022 we’re bringing back Santa Sunday at Whiteface. Dust off your finest Mr. or Mrs. Claus suit and get a FREE lift ticket for the day! Participate in a group photo and a lap down excelsior at the top of Little Whiteface at 11:00 am. Please note: If...




whiteface.com


----------



## Face4Me

Bit of a rough day today (not completely unexpected given the recent weather) ... clouds sitting on the lower mountain all morning, but beautiful up top ... in some spots, you couldn't see five feet in front of you ... they had to close Excelsior at about 10:00 am ... one of the turns (6) was nothing but pond ice (someone was going to end up in the trees) ... gave up at around 10:30 or so ... I'm guessing it probably got better once the clouds lifted, but sometimes, it's better to turn tail and run then to fight it out ... hoping for a better day tomorrow.


----------



## snoloco

Based on the webcam this morning, it looked like the bad visibility might've been caused by the snowmaking itself.


----------



## Face4Me

snoloco said:


> Based on the webcam this morning, it looked like the bad visibility might've been caused by the snowmaking itself.


I think that was definitely a contributing factor on the mountain, but there was an inversion in the morning, and the clouds were evident throughout the low lying areas.


----------



## Face4Me

Face4Me said:


> ... hoping for a better day tomorrow.


Nope.


----------



## chumpomatic

Face4Me said:


> Nope.


I didn't think it was too bad this morning, especially up top and on skier's left of Victoria. I was done by 11 though.


----------



## Brownski

Junior was up there bright and early this morning. He said it was good but got skied off and crowded by noon


----------



## Moe

Saturday was pretty nice up high. Once you got to the bottom of Victoria you couldn't see 20 feet. New snow making is great. Skiing Paron's on a bluebird day on 12/10 is a first.


----------



## chumpomatic

It's been pretty good in the mornings yesterday and today. Soft corduroy for an hour or two and then it starts to harden up. I'm thinking that I'm getting my legs back earlier this year with the longer early season runs. Still nothing new open but it looks like Mountain Run and Approach could be ready as early as tomorrow, or even this afternoon if they let us ski the whales.


----------



## ADKmike

I’ve got pretty much that same pic from Saturday (mines taken from Parons), and yeh it was nice up high above the clouds, super bad vis mid mountain, then you could really feel that temp change once you broke out below it. First day of the season for us, can’t complain about being able to ski it from the top.


----------



## Doghouse

Got a few runs in at Whiteface today. Conditions were very good - much better than I expected. I'm impressed with their early season snowmaking and grooming this year. Mostly sunny (while I was there), very small crowd and good coverage. Gondola, Face lift and Summit chair running - no lines.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Knee deep over snowmaking whalebacks. Thruway/Draper's open for racers only. Visibility not great up top. A bit of ice on the goggles. A lot of work, but fun. Tomorrow should be here snow once the grooming is done.


----------



## JTG

The boys and I will be at the mountain tomorrow. Who else will be?


----------



## snoloco

I noticed that they still haven't opened the Little Whiteface chair. I would've thought it would open with Mountain Run. How crowded was it? Gore was packed.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

JTG said:


> The boys and I will be at the mountain tomorrow. Who else will be?


I will be there about 9:30.


----------



## JTG

I noticed the same as Sno. What’s actually open? The trails marked open don’t add to 33. With Approach, 1900 Road, and Drapers open it would need some combo of Mountain Run and/or Thruway to connect them, no?


----------



## JTG

Red/orange jacket, black pants!


----------



## JTG

Not a shabby first day of the season. Even a day plus after the storm there was enough of this…..





…..it’s just a shame that this Friday looks to bring as much as 2” of ncp, followed by a deep freeze. Ugghhhhh.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

slides?


----------



## JTG

No, I wasn’t that adventurous! Guess again, if you are wrong I will say so. 😛

The bottom pic is High Country Glades. Wasn’t listed as “open” on Sunday (is now) but there was no rope and good turns.


----------



## TheGreatAbyss

Ahh Skyward? I forget how uncut they leave it


----------



## SayvilleSteve

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Ahh Skyward? I forget how uncut they leave it


That looks more like Cloudspin (aka the snowfields)


----------



## JTG

TheGreatAbyss said:


> Ahh Skyward? I forget how uncut they leave it


Warmer!


----------



## chumpomatic

Nice day and fun skiing this morning. Mountain Run and Upper Thruway were open with some fun fresh manmade snow. Lower Essex has coverage issues but still super fun. They had lower Mackenzie open for a short while this morning after being closed yesterday (morning at least). Of course the blue runs off the summit were great to rip but it's going to be a while before anything else opens up there. Certainly can't complain for December 21 skiing. Here is a picture of the mountain today. I'll post another one Saturday morning so we can see a before and after this hellish storm everyone is talking about.


----------



## chumpomatic

Here's WF this morning. It doesn't look as bad as I feared. I'm not skiing until tomorrow but would love to hear about conditions today if anyone is able to report.


----------



## Ripitz

That’s one killer view right there.


----------



## chumpomatic

Ripitz said:


> That’s one killer view right there.


Thanks. We have a telescope set up inside. You can tell a lot about the conditions by the way people are moving.


----------



## Harvey

chumpomatic said:


> You can tell a lot about the conditions by the way people are moving.



This is so true. 

Riding Straightbrook at Gore, and they just dropped the rope on Rumor:

What kind of turns are skiers making?

Forgive me for taking the liberty of making those shots full size. They are awesome.


----------



## chumpomatic

Harvey said:


> This is so true.
> 
> Riding Straightbrook at Gore, and they just dropped the rope on Rumor:
> 
> What kind of turns are skiers making?
> 
> Forgive me for taking the liberty of making those shots full size. They are awesome.


I didn't see a lot of folks skiing today but I wasn't looking a lot either. What I did see didn't look great, lots of sideways scraping but you never know how things may have been on the edges. I'll bet there were some nice wind blown bits for soft turns here and there. 

I'll ski in the morning tomorrow and report back.


----------



## Harvey

It must have been below zero up there, right?

HIGH today here in NJ was 15.


----------



## chumpomatic

Harvey said:


> It must have been below zero up there, right?
> 
> HIGH today here in NJ was 15.


I didn't leave the house today but here it was single digits all day. On the mountain, with the wind, .....certainly below zero.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

I think everything that was open before the storm is open. Standard hard packed with some dust on top. Edgeable and will probably stay that way due to midweek style turnout. Probably no visibility up top.


----------



## chumpomatic

First few runs this morning were quite nice on Mountain Run and Victoria. Some fresh natural and manmade on top of very firm snow. Summit was less good as the wind blew off most of the lighter stuff. By 10:30 I had to search out the nicer snow on the edges. First time this season I had to wait more than a minute for a gondola but not crowded at all compared to what you get out west this time of year. Looks like Essex will be reopened again soon. I'll poach it if it isn't.

More broadly I was reflecting today on what a competent job the whole crew here at WF has done this year. Great snowmaking plan, no snafus with broken lifts, just generally well done. Very strange. Thankfully the shitty weather this weekend will leave a lot of visitors with a bad taste in their mouth. We can't have this place getting popular!


----------



## NYSnowflake

The conditions seemed to improve today as they made more snow and a little bit of natural fell. Lower Mackenzie was my favorite run of the day. We were very impressed with the new pizzeria in the basement of the legacy lodge. They’re running a pretty amazing passholder special for 25 bucks you get a pizza, salad, cannoli, and interesting aqua maple drink. Make sure to ask for your pizza well done, but other than that the food is pretty awesome. Especially for on the mountain food.


----------



## chumpomatic

NYSnowflake said:


> The conditions seemed to improve today as they made more snow and a little bit of natural fell. Lower Mackenzie was my favorite run of the day. We were very impressed with the new pizzeria in the basement of the legacy lodge. They’re running a pretty amazing passholder special for 25 bucks you get a pizza, salad, cannoli, and interesting aqua maple drink. Make sure to ask for your pizza well done, but other than that the food is pretty awesome. Especially for on the mountain food.


Glad to hear they opened lower Mack, it was closed in the morning but looked good from below. Hopefully they make lots more snow over the next few nights and the rest of the week turns out awesome!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Some good snow lately, despite the rain the other day. Mountain Run was good below the Thruway split. Best to hit Upper Parkway and move left. Got busier as the day progressed, but not bad given it's Christmas week.

Snowmaking seems to be on trails around the university games race trails.....make it look like there's lots of snow everywhere. That and for the snowboard competition (Danny's Bridge/Brookside). I doubt Skyward will open until the end of the month. Someone on the gondola (non-staff) said W trail will be the focus next. If true, I doubt staffing is an issue.


----------



## chumpomatic

D.B. Cooper said:


> Some good snow lately, despite the rain the other day. Mountain Run was good below the Thruway split. Best to hit Upper Parkway and move left. Got busier as the day progressed, but not bad given it's Christmas week.
> 
> Snowmaking seems to be on trails around the university games race trails.....make it look like there's lots of snow everywhere. That and for the snowboard competition (Danny's Bridge/Brookside). I doubt Skyward will open until the end of the month. Someone on the gondola (non-staff) said W trail will be the focus next. If true, I doubt staffing is an issue.


I was hitting that exact trajectory this morning until about 10:30! All the way skier's right on U.P. and then right under the lift line on Mountain Run. Good snow there. They did open Lower Wilderness and Lower Mack too, and they were fun, but I thought Mountain Run was the most fun today.


----------



## snoloco

It does seem like this snowmaking window was mostly squandered when it comes to opening new terrain. I was hoping for Wilmington and if that wasn't possible, then Skyward, but we got neither.


----------



## Tjf1967

snoloco said:


> It does seem like this snowmaking window was mostly squandered when it comes to opening new terrain. I was hoping for Wilmington and if that wasn't possible, then Skyward, but we got neither.


If you were in charge and had the University games coming up what would you do?


----------



## freeheeln

Tjf1967 said:


> If you were in charge and had the University games coming up what would you do?


NNNNNOOOOO!!!!


----------



## snoloco

I'm well aware of the university games obligations. I thought they had gotten most of that terrain done before the warm-up, but I guess I was mistaken. Still, as of this weekend, they will the same amount of terrain open that they did 2 weeks prior.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> I'm well aware of the university games obligations. I thought they had gotten most of that terrain done before the warm-up, but I guess I was mistaken. Still, as of this weekend, they will the same amount of terrain open that they did 2 weeks prior.


Plattekill is 100% open this week. Come on down for an adventure and visit your parents afterward


----------



## chumpomatic

snoloco said:


> I'm well aware of the university games obligations. I thought they had gotten most of that terrain done before the warm-up, but I guess I was mistaken. Still, as of this weekend, they will the same amount of terrain open that they did 2 weeks prior.


wow, you're kind of harshing my buzz, dude. It's only Tuesday so we don't know exactly what will be open this weekend but even if it was just what's open today, I'm pretty happy with what they have managed. I don't recall all of the black terrain being open two weeks ago until after after the storm (some on Saturday and some on Sunday) so there has been some expansion AND there was a serious rain event last week . There are also limits on how much water they can use in a season for snow making so they may be gaming the weather a bit too.


----------



## snoloco

To my knowledge there is no limit on how much water they can use in a particular season. They can draw up to 6000 gpm from the river depending on flow.


----------



## chumpomatic

snoloco said:


> To my knowledge there is no limit on how much water they can use in a particular season. They can draw up to 6000 gpm from the river depending on flow.


That may be. I confess I don't really know much about this. I did find this bit:

TRACKING OUR WATER WITHDRAWAL To sustain and protect aquatic habitats, Gore, Whiteface, and Belleayre each have a specific, permitted amount of water withdrawal for snowmaking operations. In cooperation with the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), ORDA carefully tracks its withdrawals throughout the year to ensure they are compliant with permitted levels. Potable water wells are also permitted under the water withdrawal program, which ORDA tracks while working with the DOH.


from here: https://orda.org/wp-content/uploads...utive_Committee_Public-Packet.6.14.22_ADA.pdf

but it's pretty vague and as you say, it may just be a max rate they are allowed to draw from the river depending on river flow. I'm sure someone on this forum knows the real deal though.


----------



## chumpomatic

Another very nice morning at WF. First couple hours of the day were great on Mountain Run, Upper Parkway, Lower Wilderness, and Lower Mack. It did get skied off by late morning and today was as crowded as I've seen it this year. As far as I could tell nothing new was open but I did poach Lower Skyward which was lovely. Unfortunately the weather is about to take a turn for the worse and then the FISU games will be here. One last morning tomorrow before it's time to leave town for a couple of weeks....


----------



## D.B. Cooper

chumpomatic said:


> TRACKING OUR WATER WITHDRAWAL To sustain and protect aquatic habitats, Gore, Whiteface, and Belleayre each have a specific, permitted amount of water withdrawal for snowmaking operations.


For WF anyway, it's based on flow, not a cumulative amount per season.


chumpomatic said:


> it may just be a max rate they are allowed to draw from the river depending on river flow.


I've read it before. It may/probably is in the UMP. There are three thresholds. If the water flowing over the dam is between x and y, they can draw z amount. Over the highest threshold they can draw as much as they want (with their max capacity being 6000 gallons/min.). Measurements are taken 4x or 6x/hour.....something like that.


----------



## chumpomatic

D.B. Cooper said:


> For WF anyway, it's based on flow, not a cumulative amount per season.
> 
> I've read it before. It may/probably is in the UMP. There are three thresholds. If the water flowing over the dam is between x and y, they can draw z amount. Over the highest threshold they can draw as much as they want (with their max capacity being 6000 gallons/min.). Measurements are taken 4x or 6x/hour.....something like that.


After looking a bit more online myself I do see that I misunderstood the mechanism for limiting water use. Thanks for confirming and my apologies for getting this wrong! Of course there are still implicit constraints on snowmaking related to operating budget. I don't begin to know what goes on when making those strategic and tactical decisions but I'm sure it's well studied and something every resort, especially in the east, has to deal with.


----------



## tirolski

Somebody wrote something in September about water here.
_"The water withdrawal permit would be the first at the site, opened as an Olympic venue in the 1930s, and run by the Olympic Regional Development Authority. ORDA intends to begin operating in compliance with a 2012 law requiring a permit for drawing water exceeding 100,000 gallons per day._"








Van Ho looks to make more snow


The state Olympic authority seeks a permit to withdraw surface water to support expanded snowmaking capacity at Van Hoevenberg.




www.adirondackexplorer.org


----------



## D.B. Cooper

After loading every other LWF chair yesterday, they were loading 2 out of every 3 chairs today. Summit was closed by about 10:30 due to "mechanical issues." Friends and I were on Summit for at least 15 minutes. We thought we would be e-vacked. They should have had the Benny Hill theme playing (Yackety Sax).

Needless to say, the line ups were significant.


----------



## snoloco

The more that things change, the more they stay the same. Could you at least ride Freeway or is that a private lift for NYSEF now?


----------



## Face4Me

D.B. Cooper said:


> After loading every other LWF chair yesterday, they were loading 2 out of every 3 chairs today. Summit was closed by about 10:30 due to "mechanical issues." Friends and I were on Summit for at least 15 minutes. We thought we would be e-vacked. They should have had the Benny Hill theme playing (Yackety Sax).
> 
> Needless to say, the line ups were significant.


Don't worry ... 


> As yet unnamed, it's called Whiteface Lift A in the resolution "to construct and install a high-speed detachable quad chairlift to provide year-round access" from the Bear Den Lodge to the new Legacy Lodge.
> 
> "Installation of this lift will require construction and clearing of a new lift line and new electrical service to all three terminals of the lift. Total approximate project cost is $16.5 million."


This will solve all of the problems.  

That will be a much better use of taxpayer dollars than replacing the Little Whiteface chair and/or the Summit Quad with a reliable lift.


----------



## tirolski

Face4Me said:


> Don't worry ...
> 
> This will solve all of the problems.
> 
> That will be a much better use of taxpayer dollars than replacing the Little Whiteface chair and/or the Summit Quad with a reliable lift.


Naw just sink ~$7million for the new curling facility in Saranac Lake so the collegge kids can go play curling @ WUG 2023.




Sweeping is funner.


----------



## Harvey

Face4Me said:


> replacing the Little Whiteface chair and/or the Summit Quad with a reliable lift.


I would also like to see them go in this direction.

I am no WF expert, but it seems to me that those chairs serve all the terrain that makes Whiteface so awesome.

I know I asked this before but I forget... what does the new lift give us that we don't have now?


----------



## Tjf1967

Much more maintenance is the answer. If things are serviced regularly you are not constantly playing wack-a-mole at the worst time


----------



## chumpomatic

chumpomatic said:


> More broadly I was reflecting today on what a competent job the whole crew here at WF has done this year. Great snowmaking plan, no snafus with broken lifts, just generally well done. Very strange. Thankfully the shitty weather this weekend will leave a lot of visitors with a bad taste in their mouth. We can't have this place getting popular!


Boy, you express some good feels for the place and then the sh*t hits the fan. I couldn't agree more about replacing LWF and Summit being a higher priority than the new lift from Bear Den.

I hope things are better when I'm back after the games. I'm off to Japan now!


----------



## jasonwx

chumpomatic said:


> I hope things are better when I'm back after the games. I'm off to Japan now!


I assume you are going skiing...Niseko? 
if so please post a report...this a bucket list trip


----------



## chumpomatic

Harvey said:


> I would also like to see them go in this direction.
> 
> I am no WF expert, but it seems to me that those chairs serve all the terrain that makes Whiteface so awesome.
> 
> I know I asked this before but I forget... what does the new lift give us that we don't have now?


My understanding is that the new lift will provide those parking at Bear Den direct access to the Legacy Lodge area and LWF lift. Today if you park there you need to either hike up a bit, take the carpet, or take the Falcon Flyer lift, and then ski down to the Base Lodge. In the long run it's not a bad idea, I like parking at Bear Den (you can often ski to your car) and the hassle of getting down to the Base Lodge and then onto the mountain from there keeps me from doing it more often. I think more importantly it develops a beginners and kid friendly area to the point that they never have to even go to the Base Lodge, a priority I don't share but understand. So not a terrible idea for the some-day list but there's a long list of other things like replacing Summit, LWF, Lookout, installing a reservoir etc.... that I would rather see happen first.


----------



## Harvey

jasonwx said:


> if so please post a report...this a bucket list trip


If you do this I will change the name of the TR Forum to "Europe and Asia".


----------



## chumpomatic

jasonwx said:


> I assume you are going skiing...Niseko?
> if so please post a report...this a bucket list trip


Tokyo for 4 days then Niseko for 8. I'll take some pics and write some words but no promises on the quality of either. This will be my third trip out there, I do highly recommend it. The snow is wonderful and the food is amazing. It's just a fun place to be. The one thing it's missing is a lot of consistent steeps, but with all the snow they get, that may not work out well anyway....


----------



## jasonwx

chumpomatic said:


> Tokyo for 4 days then Niseko for 8. I'll take some pics and write some words but no promises on the quality of either. This will be my third trip out there, I do highly recommend it. The snow is wonderful and the food is amazing. It's just a fun place to be. The one thing it's missing is a lot of consistent steeps, but with all the snow they get, that may not work out well anyway....


perfect...pics of mountains and food...im down for some sushi and yakatori joints


----------



## Brownski

jasonwx said:


> perfect...pics of mountains and food...im down for some sushi and yakatori joints


I’m looking forward to the TR too. No pressure Chumpomatic, but expectations are high


----------



## Face4Me

Harvey said:


> I know I asked this before but I forget... what does the new lift give us that we don't have now?


I think they kind of make the point in the quote I posted .


> As yet unnamed, it's called Whiteface Lift A in the resolution "to construct and install a high-speed detachable quad chairlift to provide year-round access" from the Bear Den Lodge to the new Legacy Lodge.


Year round access to the new Legacy Lodge. It's my belief that they want to make that lodge available for events in the Summer, like weddings and that sort of thing. That's really the driving force here. (all presumption - no facts)

The problem is ... what's the ROI there? How much revenue do they really expect to generate from that lodge in the off-season? Let's say I'm being VERY optimistic, and we go with $500K / year (which is highly unlikely), it would still take over 30 YEARS to recoup the investment in that lift. Makes NO sense to me!

If they put this lift in, with the exception of a few days each winter, it's going to be another Warhorse lift (another brilliant idea) ... something that you spend an absolute fortune on that nobody uses. 

They can barely get enough staff now to manage the lifts they already have ... now you're going to have to staff another lift all day that no one uses. 

ORDA does, and has done, a lot of stupid things, but this may be the grand prize winner.


----------



## snoloco

Agreed that the Bear Den to Mid lift is not a good use of resources. It would've been better to make the Falcon lift a detachable instead.


----------



## chumpomatic

Face4Me said:


> If they put this lift in, with the exception of a few days each winter, it's going to be another Warhorse lift (another brilliant idea) ... something that you spend an absolute fortune on that nobody uses.


Definitely not trying to defend ORDA on this one. As I said, I think there are much better ways to spend this money but if they do this I'll probably use it quite a bit mid winter provided they open it at 8:30AM. I doubt I'll ever it use it in the summer though.


----------



## Harvey

The wedding thing (and any four season investment ) probably makes sense for many ski areas. But not before LWF and Summit if they are breaking down.

I love LWF as a double, but I'm sure if/when they replace it, it will be a quad.


----------



## Tjf1967

Harvey said:


> The wedding thing (and any four season investment ) probably makes sense for many ski areas. But not before LWF and Summit if they are breaking down.
> 
> I love LWF as a double, but I'm sure if/when they replace it, it will be a quad.


If they could run 30 years ago without problems they should be able to run today without problems. Just rebuild and maintain. Until they can make enough snow to pull the numbers in they don't need more uphill capacity. They e doing better with amount of snow they make but they are still a ways away.


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## Face4Me

I guess my issue with this lift really comes down to the dollars and sense of it. No privately owned and operated mountain would ever consider this lift. The price tag is just WAY too high (due to the complexities of the path it must take), and the bang for the buck just isn't there. But, since the state is just handing over tax payer dollars, why not?

Just to play devil's advocate, let's look at it from a winter perspective.

The lift will DEFINITELY be useful for the ski school. There's no doubt about that, but, how often is ski school so full that they would REALLY need it? Christmas week, Martin Luther King weekend (though not so much) and President's week. That's it. They should be able to find better solutions that would cost a whole lot less. You have the Warhorse lift, that is virtually unused all day, and now, there's a new trail they cut over there too.

Just get the kids over to the main area on the bus and call it a day. Or, revisit the plan to cut a trail where the power line goes from the main base area up to Bear Den behind the NYSEF building. That would provide easy access directly from the Bear Den lodge to the main base area with no uphill travel required. I believe there was an issue with that near the bottom due to the grading and the drainage, but I've got to believe you could find a solution to that for a lot less than $16.5M. And that assumes there won't be any cost overruns (which there will be).

What will the operating schedule for this lift be? Currently, they don't run the Little Whiteface chair on weekdays (except during holiday periods). Are they going to hire additional lift operators to run this lift on weekdays? For what?


> Definitely not trying to defend ORDA on this one. As I said, I think there are much better ways to spend this money but if they do this I'll probably use it quite a bit mid winter provided they open it at 8:30AM. I doubt I'll ever it use it in the summer though.


Yeah ... I get it ... you'll use it ONCE in the morning and that's it. So, by 9:00 AM, no one will be riding this lift for the rest of the day. There would be absolutely no need for this lift on any regular weekday. Even on most weekends, empty chairs will be going up all day long. Looking at a calendar, you're talking about spending $16.5M on a lift that you would run approximately 40 days (and that's probably generous) over the course of the season. That seems kind of crazy to me.

If you used that money to really fix the issues with Little Whiteface and the Summit Quad, MOST of the problems in the base area(s) would be resolved. The lines get long at Whiteface typically because lifts they already have aren't running ... not because they don't have enough lifts.

Sorry for grinding on this, but as a New York State taxpayer, it pisses me off to see my tax dollars spent this way. I'm a big believer in ORDA and its mission, but it seems to me that there needs to be some oversight and closer scrutiny of their planning. This just doesn't make sense.

I'll try REALLY hard not to comment on it again!


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## NYSnowflake

Did some spring skiing here at Whiteface today. The lower mountain and base area are suffering from thin cover, snirt, and puddles. Mountain Run and Parkway were lots of fun today with soft carveable snow. It was so warm there were shirtless skiers and riders out there. We left around 2 when the lower mountain snow got too grabby. We will be here until Tuesday, for better or worse weather… would be nice to meet some other passholders/regulars this season. It’s our first season with NY Ski3 as our pass.


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## Tjf1967

NYSnowflake said:


> Did some spring skiing here at Whiteface today. The lower mountain and base area are suffering from thin cover, snirt, and puddles. Mountain Run and Parkway were lots of fun today with soft carveable snow. It was so warm there were shirtless skiers and riders out there. We left around 2 when the lower mountain snow got too grabby. We will be here until Tuesday, for better or worse weather… would be nice to meet some other passholders/regulars this season. It’s our first season with NY Ski3 as our pass.


Face4me find him.


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## gorgonzola

Or her


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## NYSnowflake

gorgonzola said:


> Or her


Ha! I read that as “Face4me. Find him.” Meaning I should find Face4me.


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## NYSnowflake

Mountain Run exceeded all expectations today. It had hero snow this AM. Made my day. The base area is rekt. I don’t know where they will find the snow to fill in all the bare spots after we get more rain tonight, Tuesday and Wednesday. Not sure what we will do for the next few days. Maybe hike, ice skate, enjoy the hot tub, play board games, check out the ski jump…


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