# Roller Coaster Thread



## snoloco

One of my favorite warm weather activities is riding roller coasters. If you think of it, there are similarities to skiing, in that you're going down a hill fast.

Here's a few of the ones I've ridden lately. All are located at Six Flags New England in Agawam, Massachusetts.

Batman: The Dark Knight, a steel looping coaster, built by B&M, opened in 2002. It provides a forceful ride through 5 inversions.




Superman: The Ride, a steel hypercoaster. Built by Intamin, opened in 2000. This is my personal favorite in the park. It provides a long, fast ride with speeds up to 77mph, and many intense airtime moments.




The next one is interesting. It's called Wicked Cyclone, and has operated in its current form as a wood/steel hybrid coaster since 2015. It was originally called the Riverside Cyclone, and opened in 1983 as a wooden coaster. As the park grew and added newer and better rides like the two pictured above, it became obsolete, was a very rough ride, and became increasingly difficult to maintain. The decision was made to convert it to a steel coaster, with a new and improved layout, but reusing the existing wooden support structure to save money. It features many airtime moments and 3 inversions. The conversion was performed by Rocky Mountain Construction.




I'll be visiting other parks and riding more coasters, so I'll add to this thread then.


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## snoloco

Turns out that Kingda Ka at Six Flags Great Adventure is the roller coaster version of Lookout Mountain at Whiteface. What I mean is it's a ride that's important enough where I won't go to the park if it's closed, but it's also not open as consistently as I would like it to be. It's down all weekend, so I'm cancelling my trip.


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## Brownski

Last time we went, we felt like El Toro had changed significantly- much rougher, not as smooth. Do you agree? Is this something that has been documented or do you think it’s a subjective thing?


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## snoloco

I haven't been on El Toro since 2016. I've always found it to be very smooth. It's rare as it's a prefabricated wooden coaster, so the track is built to much tighter tolerances than a traditional wooden coaster which is built by hand on-site. When did you ride it? El Toro had a derailment last June and was closed for the rest of the season. After major repairs, testing, and state certification, it is back open, and what I'm hearing from others who have been on it this season, they are saying it is smoother than before. 

My home park is Six Flags New England, but they have no launch coaster, so if I'm making the trip to Great Adventure, I need to be able to ride Kingda Ka. As with times I did an about face regarding Lookout, I may have to do that regarding Kingda Ka, since the weather in New Jersey looks a lot better than the weather in Massachusetts.


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## Brownski

It was before the derailment. You might as well still go. Kinda Ka is great and all but there are other great roller coasters there too. Nitro, El Toro. If nothing else, go hide in the back and lap Bizaro.


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## snoloco

When comparing amusement parks to ski areas, I consider Great Escape equivalent to Mount Peter, Six Flags New England equivalent to The Catskills, Great Adventure equivalent to Killington or Whiteface, and Cedar Point equivalent to going out west. One strength of Great Adventure is the depth of their lineup, so if something is down, you still have a lot of other options. At SFNE, there are really only two elite coasters, Superman and Wicked Cyclone. If one of those is down, you're screwed. It's like going to Hunter and finding that the main 6 pack is down.

One thing that I've found amusement parks are not very good at is transparency regarding downtime on rides. At Killington, when any of their lifts were experiencing downtime, they would provide updates and an estimate on reopening. I haven't seen any updates from the park regarding Kingda Ka.

Bizarro is actually Medusa again. It was changed for this year. It also has a singles line now. Even before this was added, it was still a shorter line than most of their other rides.


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## snoloco

I've been on this masterpiece 10 times so far today. It's El Toro, an Intamin prefabricated wooden coaster that opened in 2006. It provides some of the best sustained ejector airtime of any coaster.

And to answer @Brownski, it was running quite rough this morning, but seems to get smoother and faster as it warms up. The only spots that are rough are the turnarounds.


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## snoloco

Ride count:

14 El Toro
8 Nitro
6 Jersey Devil
4 Medusa
1 Batman
1 Green Lantern
1 Superman

Total of 35


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## Brownski

Superman is the only coaster I ever got stuck on. It was right at the end and was probably only about half an hour but we were still horizontal so it was a pretty miserable experience. Better than getting stuck upside down though.


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## snoloco

Brownski said:


> Superman is the only coaster I ever got stuck on. It was right at the end and was probably only about half an hour but we were still horizontal so it was a pretty miserable experience. Better than getting stuck upside down though.



On that ride, you hope that either the crew is working fast or it's running one train.

My top 5 ranking at Great Adventure is:

5: Medusa
4: Kingda Ka
3: Nitro
2: Jersey Devil
1: El Toro

What's yours?


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## Brownski

I don't know. El Toro was always our favorite but maybe Nitro or Kingda Ka are more or less tied with it at number one. 
Just for the sake of taking a stand, let's say 1. El Toro, 2. Kingda Ka, 3. Nitro, 4.Medusa if that's the new name of Bizaro and then 5. Batman I guess. I am not a fan of Superman and Green Lantern is an absolute nut buster. Even if I go back I'll probably never get on either of them again. I just asked Junior and he said El Toro and then the rest. I actually like the old style wood coasters like Thunderbolt in New England and the Comet in Lake George and the wood coaster that used to be next El Toro and got torn down a decade or so ago.


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## MiSkier

I finally have an advantage of living just outside of Detroit. Cedar Point is only 2 hours away.


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## Brownski

MiSkier said:


> I finally have an advantage of living just outside of Detroit. Cedar Point is only 2 hours away.


Yup
Definitely the best there. They have everything


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## SayvilleSteve

Hershey Park is pretty legit when it comes to the sheer number of roller coasters.


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## riverc0il

Brownski said:


> I actually like the old style wood coasters like Thunderbolt in New England and the Comet in Lake George and the wood coaster that used to be next El Toro and got torn down a decade or so ago.


Good riddens to it. I rode Rolling Thunder pretty to close its end of life, it was one of the only times that I have been legit scared on a rollercoaster. The thing felt like it was going to shake itself apart and derail. I'd rather ride Predator at Darien Lake than have had to take another ride on Rolling Thunder. There is a difference between devastatingly rough and feeling at the limits of safe operation.

I need to get back to SFGAdv at some point. My only time there was October, Nitro was crawling, I have no idea why people think it is one of the best B&M hypers. I just caught it on an off day, I guess. I never got a chance to ride KK, but Toro is without a doubt the best wood coaster in the country, and best at SFGAdv by a long shot.


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## Brownski

The first time I rode Nitro, on the last 180 degree turn, I saw a little bit of G - induced gray creep into my peripheral vision. That impressed me.


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## snoloco

Brownski said:


> The first time I rode Nitro, on the last 180 degree turn, I saw a little bit of G - induced gray creep into my peripheral vision. That impressed me.


The most intense part of Nitro is the 540-degree helix just before the mid-course brake run. I almost always grey out here, and on one of my rides yesterday, I even blacked out, and didn't regain my vision till after the mid-course.



riverc0il said:


> Good riddens to it. I rode Rolling Thunder pretty to close its end of life, it was one of the only times that I have been legit scared on a rollercoaster. The thing felt like it was going to shake itself apart and derail. I'd rather ride Predator at Darien Lake than have had to take another ride on Rolling Thunder. There is a difference between devastatingly rough and feeling at the limits of safe operation.


I rode Rolling Thunder on its last day ever. It was definitely at the end of its service life. It shuffled a lot on the turnarounds, and there was lots of jackhammering in the valleys. For many years, Six Flags had a lot of deferred maintenance, and that really did it in. I've never been on Predator, but I've heard it's pretty unrideable. It has been partially retracked with steel Titan Track from Great Coasters International (GCI), so it should be better now.



riverc0il said:


> My only time there was October, Nitro was crawling, I have no idea why people think it is one of the best B&M hypers.


I've been on Nitro many times, and it's always been a fun ride. It was even my first full size coaster, when I rode it for the first time in 2007. I've only been on one other B&M Hyper, which was Goliath at La Ronde, so I don't know how Nitro compares to the others.

Most roller coasters run slower in cold weather, particularly when they are not warmed up yet. My guess is you were there on a cold day. On a hot day when the trains are running at full speed, the first half of Nitro is better than the second half. But on a cold day, they sometimes disable the mid-course brake run. This means the second half has stronger airtime than usual, but this also means it'll be running very slow in the first half.



riverc0il said:


> I never got a chance to ride KK, but Toro is without a doubt the best wood coaster in the country, and best at SFGAdv by a long shot.


El Toro is definitely the best in the park, and one of the best coasters I've ever ridden. I've been on Kingda Ka several times. Unfortunately, it has a lot of downtime. Not only does it have mechanical issues, but it can't run in high winds or any rain at all. That launch is really something. It kind of knocks the wind out of you.


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## Harvey

snoloco said:


> I almost always grey out here, and on one of my rides yesterday, I even blacked out, and didn't regain my vision till after the mid-course.



Um ok tell me about this. What is happening and is it "bad for you?"


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## snoloco

On any coaster, if you're experiencing high positive G force, the blood rushes from your head. It it's sustained for long enough, you'll start to grey out, where you lose some of your vision, or black out, where you lose all your vision. If it keeps going, you'll lose consciousness, though that should not happen on any roller coaster. I think I was dehydrated during that particular ride which made it worse, because on other rides I only greyed out and didn't black out. I don't think it's "bad for you" since it's not sustained for that long, but it can definitely be scary if you're not expecting it.


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## sig

the first drop off at the beginning of the SUPERMAN ride is insane. what a ride


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## snoloco

sig said:


> the first drop off at the beginning of the SUPERMAN ride is insane. what a ride


Which Superman ride? There are many in the Six Flags chain, and they are not all the same. The Six Flags New England version is an Intamin hypercoaster, and is widely considered to be the best Superman themed ride in the chain. The Great Adventure version is a B&M flying coaster. It has one intense element with what's called the Pretzel Loop, but it mostly just meanders the rest of the layout. It's still a fun ride, but usually a one and done for me.


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## raisingarizona

What’s a hyper coaster?

Intamin I’m guessing is a coaster construction company?

Inversions? 

And lastly how do you get the airtime moments? I’m thinking it’s at the top of a rise and then an immediate drop but I’m not totally sure. 

Sorry for so many questions but I don’t know squat about roller coasters. I don’t think I’ve been on one for maybe 30 something years now! 

Cool thread. It’s very interesting. Thanks Sno.


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## raisingarizona

One more question. How much does it cost these days to go to these parks? Is there an equivalent to the epic or Ikon?


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## Brownski

Sno can correct me if I get something wrong

A hyper coaster is a large fast coaster. The newer larger steel coasters go a lot faster than the old wooden ones. I’m sure there are speed parameters that separate super, hyper etc but Sno will have to chime in.

Airtime is when your ass comes off the seat at the top of a hill.

A day ticket at six flags last time I went was in the sixties I think but a season pass was just a little more.


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## Harvey

My daughter gets a season pass to Six Flags. It "pays for itself" at about 1.5 days.


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## raisingarizona

Is a season pass for six flags good at all six flags parks?


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## tirolski

snoloco said:


> ... I almost always grey out here, and on one of my rides yesterday, I even blacked out, and didn't regain my vision till after the mid-course.





snoloco said:


> ...That launch is really something. It kind of knocks the wind out of you.


An offseason name change to rollercoasterloco seems apt.
But you get to do you.
Some folks like to board or ski super fast and/or flip over&twist and try to land without breaking body parts too.








						The psychology of roller coasters
					

Why do some people love roller coasters while others hate them?




					theconversation.com


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## raisingarizona

tirolski said:


> An offseason name change to rollercoasterloco seems apt.
> But you get to do you.
> Some folks like to board or ski super fast and/or flip over&twist and try to land without breaking body parts too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The psychology of roller coasters
> 
> 
> Why do some people love roller coasters while others hate them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theconversation.com


My desire for dopamine hits or adrenaline rushes has really decreased a ton the last 5 years or so. Being 46 It seems in line with your article.

I’d still enjoy a good roller coaster ride though, I’ve always felt they were a harmless way to catch a buzz. Statistically speaking they are extremely safe especially if compared to something like high end skiing or BASE jumping.


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## Brownski

raisingarizona said:


> Is a season pass for six flags good at all six flags parks?


Yes. If you remember that last road trip I took my sons on before COVID, we hit 4 of them in between baseball parks. I don’t remember if the TR got ported over when Harv upgraded the forum. It’ should be in the archive someplace at least


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## Harvey

Brownski said:


> Yes. If you remember that last road trip I took my sons on before COVID, we hit 4 of them in between baseball parks. I don’t remember if the TR got ported over when Harv upgraded the forum. It’ should be in the archive someplace at least


If you find it I will move it over.

Google is probably the best way.

Found this from snoloco:






Summer - Six Flags Great Adventure: 4/14/14


Six Flags Great Adventure: 4/14/14. I have spring break this week as do many other NY schools and all NJ schools. As a result, Six Flags is open this entire week just for spring break, usually it is...



forum.nyskiblog.com





and this from Bro:









TR Summer Vacation: Brownski does Florida


First of all, this is a modern, high tech version of a puke bag. If you’re a puker, it’s worth investing in a quality product ahead of time. Dangerboy has a well earned puker reputation. My parents and sisters have been Disney freaks for years. I enjoyed Disney World the first time I went in...




nyskiblog.com


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## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> Yes. If you remember that last road trip I took my sons on before COVID, we hit 4 of them in between baseball parks. I don’t remember if the TR got ported over when Harv upgraded the forum. It’ should be in the archive someplace at least


I totally remember that but I don’t recall if you mentioned how the pass works. That’s pretty cool.


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## Brownski

To be clear, they do nickel and dime you a hundred different ways once you’re inside the park but the season pass is a good value


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## MiSkier

raisingarizona said:


> One more question. How much does it cost these days to go to these parks? Is there an equivalent to the epic or Ikon?


Cedar Point had a $99 season pass that included parking which is $20


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## sig

snoloco said:


> Which Superman ride? There are many in the Six Flags chain, and they are not all the same. The Six Flags New England version is an Intamin hypercoaster, and is widely considered to be the best Superman themed ride in the chain. The Great Adventure version is a B&M flying coaster. It has one intense element with what's called the Pretzel Loop, but it mostly just meanders the rest of the layout. It's still a fun ride, but usually a one and done for me.


6 flags new England. its been awhile but if i remember it correctly you climb slowly up the first hill. you then go into s serious nose dive. just before you wet yourself the coaster pulls out of the dive and banks right. like i said, awesome ride


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## Harvey

sig said:


> just before you wet yourself



That's his story and he's sticking to it. 🤠


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## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> To be clear, they do nickel and dime you a hundred different ways once you’re inside the park but the season pass is a good value


Can you bring a backpack with water and a bagged lunch?


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## Brownski

I don’t think so. You can get your hand stamped and go back to your car.


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## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> I don’t think so. You can get your hand stamped and go back to your car.


Well, you could stash your lunch like you’re sneaking something into prison. 

But seriously, when a corporate entity says some basic needs items aren’t aloud such as a water bottle I become that much more motivated to break the rules! 😂

Best example that comes to mind is Harkins. After Being charged 62 dollars and 42 cents for a medium popcorn, one beverage and a box of sweet tarts it was on!


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## snoloco

raisingarizona said:


> What’s a hyper coaster?


The definition varies based on who you ask. But I define it as a steel coaster over 200 feet tall with a layout that it focused on speed and airtime. Most do not have inversions, though a few of the newer ones do.



raisingarizona said:


> Intamin I’m guessing is a coaster construction company?


Yes, it's short for *Int*ernational *Am*usement *In*stallations. They are one of the largest coaster manufacturers. Intamin, along with Bolliger and Mabillard (B&M) and Rocky Mountain Construction (RMC) are the most common ones in North America, but there are many coaster manufacturers. It's not like lift manufacturers where there are really only 2.



raisingarizona said:


> Inversions?


Any point where the ride goes upside down.



raisingarizona said:


> And lastly how do you get the airtime moments? I’m thinking it’s at the top of a rise and then an immediate drop but I’m not totally sure.


When you feel like you're coming out of your seat. Usually at the top of a hill or during a drop.


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## Harvey

snoloco said:


> I define it



Thinking outside the box. He learns the rating system, and then revises to fit his needs. 👊


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## jasonwx

I guess a RC is the closest thing to being in a fighter plane.. 
what is the highest G load that you can experience on a coaster?


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## Brownski

jasonwx said:


> what is the highest G load that you can experience on a coaster?


Wikipedia says Nitro hits 4.3. El Toro is a little less. There are bigger coasters in the world but I think they’re in the same range


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## jasonwx

fighter pulls 9.. and you start to grey out on coaster..yikes


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## Brownski

jasonwx said:


> fighter pulls 9.. and you start to grey out on coaster..yikes


Just the first time I rode it, I saw a little bit of of gray in my peripheral vision. I wouldn’t say I was close to passing out- just that I could tell something was happening. Since then (knowing it’s coming) I haven’t. What Sno reported is a little alarming. If I experienced that I would go to a doctor, get on a rigorous exercise program etc… 4.3 Gs is a lot but shouldn’t be that big a deal. Even veteran fighter pilots wearing G suits get knocked out by 9 Gs some times. You and me wouldn’t stand a chance.


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## trackbiker

jasonwx said:


> fighter pulls 9.. and you start to grey out on coaster..yikes


Fighters pilots have pressure suits. I guess you'd look kinda silly wearing one on a roller coaster.


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## snoloco

I don't think it's necessarily the magnitude of the force, but how sustained it is that determines if you experience a grey-out or black-out. Nitro has very sustained g force in that helix, so that's why I sometimes grey out there. I think the highest g force you can get on any roller coaster is around 6, but it's not very sustained. Obviously, fighter pilots can experience a lot higher, but they have extensive training, and equipment for it. Roller coaster passengers do not.


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## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> I guess a RC is the closest thing to being in a fighter plane..


Or a sport bike
Man those things pull


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## Brownski

Hey Sno, have you ever been on Kingda Ka when it didn’t get over the top and rolled back into the station? That would be cool I think but I’ve never experienced it.


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## snoloco

Rollbacks with riders are very rare. I heard they average around 2 per week, and the ride can cycle hundreds of times each day. I've been on Kingda Ka, but never experienced a rollback, nor have I seen one in-person.


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## riverc0il

jasonwx said:


> what is the highest G load that you can experience on a coaster?


For sustained... it is probably the first turn on Intimidator 305 at King's Dominion. It is a guaranteed gray out for most riders. Probably a sustained +4Gs? A lot of coasters have a short peak of G forces, I305's is long and sustained.

Due to complaints from guests after it opened, the park had the manufacturer reprofile the first turn due to people blacking out. To this day, due to its intensity, the rollercoaster receives relatively low ridership considering its stats (one of only a few coasters with a 300+ foot tall drop). 

B&M pretzel loops are pretty crushing (sno mentioned Superman at SFGAdv).

For helix elements, I've always found Raptor at Cedar Point to be particularly strong, especially when the trains are hauling. But more foot tingly than gray out, for me.


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## snoloco

Cedar Fair built two Intimidator coasters in 2010, themed to Dale Earnhardt, for the southeast parks Carowinds and Kings Dominion. The idea was to get a headlining attraction into these two parks they had acquired just a few years earlier, and the name/theme was intended to capitalize on the millions of Nascar fans in the area. Carowinds got a B&M hyper, but Kings Dominion is close to Busch Gardens Williamsburg, which already had one, so the one upped them with an Intamin giga. This should've been not only the headlining attraction in the park, but for the entire region. Unfortunately, I think I-305 was a complete flop from a business perspective. A giga at any park should be the headlining attraction and draw the longest lines, but I-305 is usually no more than a station wait. The average guest just finds it too intense. Meanwhile, the Carowinds version is much more popular, despite having less impressive stats.


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## MiSkier

riverc0il said:


> For sustained... it is probably the first turn on Intimidator 305 at King's Dominion. It is a guaranteed gray out for most riders. Probably a sustained +4Gs? A lot of coasters have a short peak of G forces, I305's is long and sustained.
> 
> Due to complaints from guests after it opened, the park had the manufacturer reprofile the first turn due to people blacking out. To this day, due to its intensity, the rollercoaster receives relatively low ridership considering its stats (one of only a few coasters with a 300+ foot tall drop).
> 
> B&M pretzel loops are pretty crushing (sno mentioned Superman at SFGAdv).
> 
> For helix elements, I've always found Raptor at Cedar Point to be particularly strong, especially when the trains are hauling. But more foot tingly than gray out, for me.


I know when Maverick was built at Cedar Point they had what they called a heart roll and they had to take it out due to G forces


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## snoloco

So now that Kingda Ka is back open, I need to decide whether to make another trip to New Jersey to ride it. I recall someone back on the old forum referring to Lookout Mountain at Whiteface as an elusive mistress. Kingda Ka can be too. I've heard of people who've visited the park many times and have never had the chance to ride it.


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## snoloco

I have a love/hate relationship with Kingda Ka. I love that it's the tallest roller coaster in the world, and provides a super intense ride. Going up that tower is probably the closest any of us will experience to a space shuttle liftoff. I hate the fact that it didn't open till around 1 and has broken down 3 times since then. Also, this is it's 17th birthday. It opened for the first time on May 21st 2005.


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## Tjf1967

snoloco said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with Kingda Ka. I love that it's the tallest roller coaster in the world, and provides a super intense ride. Going up that tower is probably the closest any of us will experience to a space shuttle liftoff. I hate the fact that it didn't open till around 1 and has broken down 3 times since then. Also, this is it's 17th birthday. It opened for the first time on May 21st 2005.
> 
> View attachment 15098


Did you get on it?


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## raisingarizona

jasonwx said:


> fighter pulls 9.. and you start to grey out on coaster..yikes


Dehydration?


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## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with Kingda Ka. I love that it's the tallest roller coaster in the world, and provides a super intense ride. Going up that tower is probably the closest any of us will experience to a space shuttle liftoff. I hate the fact that it didn't open till around 1 and has broken down 3 times since then. Also, this is it's 17th birthday. It opened for the first time on May 21st 2005.
> 
> View attachment 15098


You should try 65 mph straight lines down 13 thousand foot backcountry peaks on yer skis!


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## snoloco

Tjf1967 said:


> Did you get on it?


Yes, 4 times today.


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## jasonwx

raisingarizona said:


> Dehydration?


lack of blood and 02 to your brain


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## snoloco

It's always nice when this is the extent of the line for the tallest coaster in the park, as in none.


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## raisingarizona

Go to Colorado to get high. 



Record-setting mountaintop rollercoaster set to open in Colorado at 7,160 feet above sea level | OutThere Colorado


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## MiSkier

Cedar Point on Fathers Day. Been coming every year since 2001 with my daughter. They only year we missed was 2020 due to being closed for Covid. The parking lot was half full and 20-30 min wait for the good rides all day long.


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## snoloco

Finally caught some rides on the Alpine Bobsled at Great Escape. This ride began its life at Six Flags Great Adventure in 1984, was removed from there in 1988 and sent to Six Flags Great America, and was moved here in 1998. It's one of only two Intamin Bobsled rides remaining in the US. It experiences extensive downtime due to the fact that it can't run in any rain at all. It has been closed all the other times I've been at Great Escape.


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## riverc0il

snoloco said:


> It's one of only two Intamin Bobsled rides remaining in the US. It experiences extensive downtime due to the fact that it can't run in any rain at all. It has been closed all the other times I've been at Great Escape.


I haven't been to Great Escape since I was really young, 10 or so maybe? I can't see myself ever getting back there.

Funny Bobsled story from Cedar Point circa 2006 or so...

We were near the front of the park and it started to pour. I had not been on Disaster Transport (similar Intamin bobsled ride, but enclosed and now defunct), so I thought I was being clever when I suggested it. An inside ride during the rain... perfect idea, right?

Well, the building wasn't sealed tight and water got onto the track when it rained. It took a long time before the ride was ready for riders again. We waited a heck of a long time while they cycled trains to clear the water in the trough. I had no idea what the coaster even was at the time, let alone the impact of water on its operations.

We would have gotten more rides and waited less if we just waited out the rain and picked a different ride. It had probably stopped raining for quite some time before they started boarding guests. At least we were dry, though.

--

Unrelated to Intamin Bobsleds, three cheers for Wildcat at Hershey Park getting an all but officially announced RMC conversion. That ride was great when it opened. Last time I rode was in 2008, it was horrifically rough. I am sure it is even worse now. I like a wild woody, but it joined a short list of woodies that I swore I would never ride again.

I haven't been back to HP since Fahrenheit was installed, so I will get to ride four new coasters when I go next (after Wildcat is RMC'd).


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## snoloco

I live 25 minutes from Great Escape so it's easy to stop by for a few hours. If I want to spend a whole day in the park, I go to Six Flags New England.

Disaster Transport was built in 1985 and called Avalanche Run. It was outdoors. It got enclosed in 1990 because they had issues with sand getting in the track. As you noticed, it was a very problematic ride, and was removed in 2012 to make way for Gatekeeper, a B&M wing coaster.

I've never been to Hershey, but I've always heard good things about it. RMC Wildcat will be an excellent addition to their already great lineup. Some parks struggle to maintain wooden coasters. Great Escape and Six Flags New England do a good job with their wooden coasters, but when Great Adventure still had Rolling Thunder, they let it fall into severe disrepair, leading to its closure. I honestly don't see the chain ever building a new wooden coaster again.


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## Harvey

Love the pics in this thread.


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## snoloco

Harvey said:


> Love the pics in this thread.


And here's some more from Six Flags New England today.

Before park opening with New England Skyscreamer, the world's tallest swing ride in the distance.




Lunchtime! This park has a surprisingly good barbecue place, with both in indoor and outdoor seating. You don't have to settle for overpriced chicken tenders and fries! I always eat here during my trips.




The Riddler Revenge, a Vekoma Suspended Looping Coaster, or SLC for short. This often cloned model is maligned for its rough ride and headbanging causes by the bulky restraints. This version was built in 1997 and originally called Mind Eraser. In 2018, it was renamed Riddler Revenge, and received new trains with vest restraints. While it's still rough, there is no headbanging, making this version one of the best of this model.










The tower on the right is called Scream, and it's a multi-tower complex of S&S power towers. They are powered by compressed air and offer 3 programs. Turbo Drop mode lifts you up slowly and then drops you at faster than freefall speed. Space Shot mode launches you upwards and then lowers you slowly. Combo mode basically runs the two programs back to back. Two of the towers can run all 3 programs and are usually set to combo mode, but one can only run in turbo drop mode, due to the fact that it was built 2 years before the others.




Superman looks so great during golden hour when the sun hits it. Still my favorite ride in the park, and one could argue it's the best traditional hypercoaster out there.








Ride count:

10 Superman
10 Wicked Cyclone
3 Scream
2 Batman
2 Riddler Revenge
2 Pandemonium
1 Skyscreamer

Total of 30


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## riverc0il

Looks like a nice day.

I agree, the BBQ place is nice. I am glad to see parks step up their food game (more so at Cedar Fair parks, less so at Six Flags... but at least SF is taking small steps forward). I am happy to pay more to get quality food at a park (though, the BBQ prices are quite reasonable, from what I remember).

I rode Riddler after the harnesses were changed. I was actually looking forward to it, thinking the change might make a difference. It was the most brutal steel coaster ride that I have ever been on. Never again. Well, that is what I said about SLCs many, many years ago.

I wish I could love Superman, but the U-bricks are the most painful restraints that I have endured on a coaster. It is a pity, as the replaced Intamin T-bar is my favorite restraint.

I am tall with long legs. I barely fit in the U-bricks because of my leg length. Air time is super painful (I always cringe going over the last two air time hills). First half of the ride is great, though. The new wheels a few years back really help, that coaster was lifeless for a while.


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## Brownski

Sno, you’re making me want to get on a roller coaster again. My younger son has been to six flags NJ this year but I haven’t.
Mind Eraser in NE was definitely one of the roughest coasters I’ve been on. What’s the giant boomerang they have there? Is it called Goliath? That thing is pretty wild. Why isn’t that on your list and why no Thunderbolt? Superman is good but I think I like Nitro in NJ better.
edit: I agree on the bbq too. It’s not world class or anything but way better than anything else there.


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## snoloco

riverc0il said:


> Looks like a nice day.
> 
> I agree, the BBQ place is nice. I am glad to see parks step up their food game (more so at Cedar Fair parks, less so at Six Flags... but at least SF is taking small steps forward). I am happy to pay more to get quality food at a park (though, the BBQ prices are quite reasonable, from what I remember).


Six Flags has a new CEO and one of his priorities is to improve food quality. All parks ban outside food, but it turns out if you want people to eat inside the park, then the food quality has to be good, or people will just hit a McDonald's on the way out.



riverc0il said:


> I rode Riddler after the harnesses were changed. I was actually looking forward to it, thinking the change might make a difference. It was the most brutal steel coaster ride that I have ever been on. Never again. Well, that is what I said about SLCs many, many years ago.


It's still quite rough, but you don't get any headbanging with the vest restraints. They do tighten a lot during the ride. When I get back, I always hope the crew is working fast, or that it's running one train. The restraints can get so tight that they start to cut off your circulation. If they want to keep that ride around, then I think they should do what Morey's Piers did and retrack it using Vekoma's new track bending technology. I've heard their SLC is as smooth as a B&M invert now.



riverc0il said:


> I am tall with long legs. I barely fit in the U-bricks because of my leg length. Air time is super painful (I always cringe going over the last two air time hills). First half of the ride is great, though. The new wheels a few years back really help, that coaster was lifeless for a while.


I didn't ride it for the first time until 2021, but I heard it was running much slower from when it was converted to Bizarro until receiving the new wheels in 2019. It now runs the same speed as it did in the early years. The U bricks aren't the best, but I honestly don't mind them all that much. I try to hold the lap bar up once it is checked to avoid it tightening during the ride. Also, the red train is smoother than the blue train, and slightly faster.



Brownski said:


> Sno, you’re making me want to get on a roller coaster again. My younger son has been to six flags NJ this year but I haven’t.


You should definitely go. Crowds have been a lot lower this year and they've made a lot of improvements to park appearance and operations.



Brownski said:


> What’s the giant boomerang they have there? Is it called Goliath? That thing is pretty wild. Why isn’t that on your list and why no Thunderbolt?


Goliath last operated in 2019 and was removed and scrapped in 2021 after being standing but not operating for 2 years. I rarely ride Thunderbolt due to the fact that it can only run one train and usually has one of the longest lines in the park. I have been on it though, and found it to be a smooth, though rather mild ride.


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## riverc0il

snoloco said:


> The U bricks aren't the best, but I honestly don't mind them all that much. I try to hold the lap bar up once it is checked to avoid it tightening during the ride. Also, the red train is smoother than the blue train, and slightly faster.


Yea, I wish that worked for me. But, alas, my long legs throw a safety fault if the bar isn't full on pinned. Basically, I self staple and then they ram it down just a bit more during the check. 😡

Retracking the SLC would be awesome. But, I cannot see them doing that after having recently updated the trains and repainting the existing track.

I never got to ride Goliath. I didn't miss much, from what I hear. Hopefully, SFNE trashes the other boomerang and drops a new coaster where they both used to be!

Any ways, no big coaster trips for me this year. We just got a new puppy and we are taking a "staycation" this summer. Central NH isn't the best place to be if you enjoy coasters. SFNE gets old quick since it lacks depth. The fall off after the RMC and Superman is pretty steep, and operations on many of the coasters are really slow.

Next year, I'd like to do a swing through PA and revisit Hershey (if they have Wildcat RMC'd by then) and make first visits to Kennywood (my brother lives in Pitt) and Knoebels. Also, I would like to do a BG pass and hit all their east coast parks.


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## Brownski

Goliath was bat shit crazy.Way better than normal boomerang coasters.


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## snoloco

riverc0il said:


> I never got to ride Goliath. I didn't miss much, from what I hear. Hopefully, SFNE trashes the other boomerang and drops a new coaster where they both used to be!


I always found it funny how they had 2 Boomerangs right next to each other. The other Boomerang is Flashback, which was relocated from Kentucky Kingdom in 2000 and replaced an Arrow shuttle loop called Black Widow. That's the only launch coaster SFNE has ever had. Flashback actually dates back to 1985, because before Kentucky Kingdom, it operated somewhere in China. I think it should be removed because it has to be nearing expiration date.

Goliath came from Six Flags Magic Mountain, where it originally opened as Deja Vu in 2001. It was moved to SFNE in 2012, where it replaced a shoot the chute type water ride. Unfortunately, it did not have a successful career at SFNE. The original Vekoma train provided a smooth ride, but the park thought the staggered seating was confusing to guests, so they ordered a new train from Premier Rides with regular 4 across seating. That train did not ride very well, and turned the coaster into an uncomfortable, jackhammering mess. The ride was also constantly breaking down and couldn't run in any rain at all, nor temps below 60 degress (both of which are very common in New England).



riverc0il said:


> SFNE gets old quick since it lacks depth. The fall off after the RMC and Superman is pretty steep, and operations on many of the coasters are really slow.


SFNE is definitely "top-heavy". It's a problem at a lot of parks. They rely so much on their top tier attractions and lack depth. In case you didn't know, Six Flags went through a corporate merger back in the 90's with Premier Parks. The pre-merger Six Flags parks tend to be better than the pre-merger Premier parks, because their lineups have more depth to them. SFNE happens to be an ex-Premier park. Take Six Flags Over Georgia for instance, a pre-merger Six Flags park, which serves a similar market in terms of population. They also have a hyper + RMC top two with Goliath and Twisted Cyclone. But below that, they have a Batman The Ride clone, which is better than anything at SFNE other than their top 2. They also have 2 other B&Ms in Superman Ultimate Flight, a flying coaster, and Georgia Scorcher, a stand-up coaster. They also have a Schwartzkopf looper in Riddler Mindbender, and a Gerstlauer Eurofighter in Dare Devil Dive. While their top two isn't quite as strong as SFNE, their lineup has a lot more depth. I actually think it's harder to build a park that has depth to its lineup than getting a one two punch of elite coasters.


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## riverc0il

Flashback certainly rides like it has been around a long time and had a few relocations. I'm not a fan of boomerangs, but that one is particularly dreadful. Darien Lake's boomerang is probably the best one I've been on, that one actually rides really well! Dating myself a bit, but I rode Black Widow... I still have a hard time not calling the park Riverside.


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## Brownski

riverc0il said:


> Dating myself a bit, but I rode Black Widow... I still have a hard time not calling the park Riverside


Me too. We saw one of those at a tiny six flags out west (Kansas maybe- Oklahoma?) on a road trip a couple years back. Might very well have been the one from Riverside I guess. Sno could probably tell us
edit: wikipedia says the the one we rode in Oklahoma came from the NJ park. Looks like Black Widow got scrapped.


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## snoloco

Black Widow sat in an empty lot in Indiana for a few years because Six Flags wanted to build a park there. That never happened and it was eventually scrapped.


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## Ripitz

Girl killed in amusement park ride accident when roller-coaster derails — CBS News


The roller-coaster is 25 meters tall and the wagons have a top speed of 70 kilometers per hour, according to the Tivoli Friheden website.




apple.news


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## snoloco

I'm first in line to enter Great Adventure on one of the hottest days of the year. I'll be posting periodic updates throughout the day here.


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## snoloco

On the skyride heading across the park after:

8 El Toro
3 Kingda Ka
1 Superman
1 Green Lantern
1 Log Flume


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## snoloco

Nitro is a great night ride. I'll end up having done 51 rides over the course of the day (throughout the park, not just on this ride)


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## snoloco

Final ride count from yesterday:

12 El Toro
10 Nitro
8 Kingda Ka
6 Jersey Devil
2 Medusa
2 Zumanjaro
2 Log Flume
2 Congo Rapids
2 Skyway
1 Batman
1 Superman
1 Green Lantern
1 Dark Knight
1 Skull Mountain

That's a total of 51, 43 of which were coasters.


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## snoloco

While waiting for a lightning hold to clear, a rainbow became visible.


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## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> While waiting for a lightning hold to clear, a rainbow became visible.
> 
> View attachment 15621


Dang that thing looks tall! I bet that's really fun.

Did you guys see that there were several roller coaster deaths in Germany this past month?


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## Brownski

Roller Coaster Malfunction at NJ's Six Flags Great Adventure Leaves 14 Hurt


At least 12 people suffered injuries and were hospitalized after a roller coaster at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey malfunctioned at the end of the ride, the amusement park said.




www.nbcnewyork.com


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## riverc0il

Brownski said:


> Roller Coaster Malfunction at NJ's Six Flags Great Adventure Leaves 14 Hurt
> 
> 
> At least 12 people suffered injuries and were hospitalized after a roller coaster at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey malfunctioned at the end of the ride, the amusement park said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


This is a really bad look for El Toro, two years in a row with rider injuries due to an issue with a train in motion. We'll have to wait for more details to see what the issue was.


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## snoloco

The entire Six Flags chain is a hot mess right now, which is surprising since they emerged from the pandemic in such a strong position. I'll explain further.

They got a new CEO in November 2021 named Selim Bassoul. He replaced Mike Spanos, who was only there for 2 years. Initially, it confused me, because the chain seemed to be on the right track under Spanos. Attendance had rebounded after the pandemic year, and they were opening some cool new rides for the 2022 season. They were also moving away from the previous decade of bargain basement prices for tickets and passes. You'd pay more, but also get a better experience, as they were adding rides of a level that hadn't happened in a while. However, it seemed like Bassoul largely wanted to continue with the business model used under Spanos, so I was optimistic.

The first red flag was when they repeatedly changed their pass structure. They went through at least 3 different pass structures in less than a year. No one did that previously. Not Six Flags, nor any other chain. Then I started to notice that the parks were surprisingly empty, even as we got into the summer season. While I always welcome shorter lines, it was so empty at some parks that you could stay on pretty much any ride again and again without getting off. Something didn't seem right. I also noticed that staffing levels, which were improved from 2021 at the beginning of the season, had started to decline. Then I came across this letter.

It showed that things had really deteriorated. The new employee strategy was to underpay and fire anyone who disagreed with the CEO. They were also reportedly skimping on things like maintenance. Shortly after was their 2nd quarter results and earnings call. That's when shit really hit the fan. Attendance was down 22%, revenue was also down. While per guest spending was up, it wasn't enough. Guest satisfaction scores were also higher, but only due to the lack of lines from attendance so low that it put the company in the red. Having listened to the earnings call, it became clear that not only would the chain get no new rides in 2023 or 2024, but that the CEO in fact has no clue what he is doing.

Then we started to see rides or even entire sections of the park get shut down for the season, often without warning, in August. The cycle worked like this: 1. raise prices. 2. when attendance drops, raise prices to compensate. 3. If attendance still doesn't increase, then stop operating entire sections of your park.

They claim they want to be family friendly, yet the parks have thrill rides. They'd need to invest heavily in family/kids rides in order to get to where they want, yet they refuse to do even that.

The bottom line is management has no clue what they are doing. It's become ORDA level bad. The board needs to oust the CEO before something is done that can't be reversed, like removing a major ride (Six Flags Over Texas may actually be doing it).

As for El Toro, they should be test riding it every morning. But that ride runs a lot slower in the morning than it usually does, and during testing, there's typically only one person on the train. They ride the ride and look and listen for anything out of the ordinary. Keep in mind that on El Toro, trains run much slower in the morning when the ride isn't warmed up. I believe whatever failed was not detectable unless the train was fully loaded and fully warmed up. That being said, to give people confidence that the ride is safe, they should be replacing all the track with Intamin made pieces (they typically make their own in-house). But this is expensive, and I'm not sure this CEO will do it, meaning El Toro will be El Lawn Ornament for now. Even with a full retrack, it's likely done for the season, and will also be closed for part of next season. This is due to lead times, and how long the track takes to install.


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## riverc0il

I noticed a lot of enthusiasts slamming the new CEO. The strategy is, IMO, a good one. But perhaps other aspects of operations have not been executed well. Amusement park passes are DIRT cheap for what you get (recouping a pass cost in only 2+ visits). A lot of entitlement despite bottom dollar prices.

Increase prices, decrease lines, eliminate freebies that were being abused, make the overall experience better, and attract a higher income guest with more money to burn. I am a target audience in that regard.

I am not a huge fan of Six Flags. I would gladly pay more for a better experience. I WANT to eat in a park. I will gladly pay $20+ a plate, but not for shit food. SFNE is my closest park. But I only get a pass there when I am traveling to other SF parks during a given year (which isn't too often). I am far more likely to get a Cedar Fair pass at whichever of their parks I travel to visit.

On an earnings call, the CEO said something like "Six Flags shouldn't be a baby sitting company for teens". It was extremely poor wording and antagonistic, especially given how many of their customers are in that age bracket. But it was a SPOT ON observation and business stance. That is their target market and demographic right now. They cannot turn on a dime, turn away from a business model deeply engrained in the company.

Six Flags isn't going to attract Disney and Universal vacationers. They've been the amusement park bottom feeders for too long. They need to show up first, make things better first, and then maybe folks might reconsider. It seems they put the cart before the horse. If anything, they are decreasing their park investment and making operations worse.

Pretty sad overall, but I think the enthusiast crowd are blowing things out of proportion. Some folks are criticizing not only the operational issues and lack of investment, but the strategy itself. The strategy is sound, except for the lack of follow through on investment and improvements. They definitely dropped the ball on making the value better while increasing prices.

Any ways, RMC El Toro!!!


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## snoloco

It was clear Six Flags needed a change in strategy, but they totally failed on the implementation. How can you justify charging twice as much for the same exact thing? Customers couldn't justify paying that, so they didn't come.

When you lose attendance, there is no incentive to have good operations, staff the park sufficiently to have all rides open, or operate for long hours. So operations get slower, staffing is cut, rides are closed, and operating hours are slashed. Then even fewer people come, and it becomes a death spiral.

The complete lack of investment is a real slap in the face. As someone who goes to the parks mostly for rides, how can I justify the higher price when there isn't anything new to get excited about? Rides are not like ski lifts, which to most guests exist only for capacity. Unfortunately, that's how this CEO views them. There's a rumor that he doesn't like riding roller coasters. That's like an airline CEO being afraid of flying.


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## trackbiker

Cedar Point permanently closing worlds second tallest coaster


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## riverc0il

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. The wording in the announcement suggests they may augment the existing coaster ("as you know it" and "Our team is hard at work, creating a new and reimagined ride experience.”)

A change in launch technology to something more reliable would be nice. Maybe lop off top hat a bit and make the ride longer (a la Xcelerator at Knotts?). Eliminate Corkscrew and utilize both sides of the plaza? Speculation abound at this point.

It would be nice to have something more reliable with a shorter line. I've spent two different weeks at CP and only rode TTD once per visit due to lines and downtime. It is hard to justify a long wait when TTD could break down at any point.


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## snoloco

A certain Massachusetts amusement park thought it was a good idea to take apart the second train on all the coasters two weeks before the end of the season. That meant much longer wait times than there would normally be for the number of people here. Other than that, a pretty good day. Glad that things are still open to hold me over till ski season.


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## Brownski

Probably do it the same time every year- Should have looked at the forecast


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## snoloco

They're open two weeks later than last year. And this weekend is still Fright Fest, their Halloween event, which is extremely popular. Run all the trains!


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## snoloco

Last day of the season at Six Flags New England. Low crowds, but very cold, especially when riding a coaster in the front row. 

Many enthusiasts make trips to Florida or other regions with year round parks over the winter, but this concludes the coaster season for me. It's time for ski season. Bring on winter!


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## Harvey

@snoloco what is the most popular ride, or biggest attraction at SFGA? What serves the most patrons per year?


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