# Coronavirus and Skiing



## Harvey

I've been resisting this thread, but it does really makes sense to have it. Please keep this thread to the impact on skiing, riding and winter sports and use the thread in the OT for everything else.









To Summit County Residents


Like much of the rest of the country, COVID rates are going up in Summit County. Over the last two weeks, Summit's cumulative rate of cases ...




arapahoebasin.blogspot.com


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## MarzNC

Ski Vermont, the website that promotes the ski industry in Vermont in general, put together a webpage related to how COVID-19 will change the upcoming season. Go to the link and scroll down for links to the relevant webpages for the 14 ski areas/resorts that work with Ski Vermont. The list includes Magic, MRG, Stowe, and Stratton so large and small mountains.









Vermont Ski Trip Planning and COVID-19 — Ski Vermont


Vermont Ski Trip Planning and COVID-19




skivermont.com


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## MarzNC

Ski Utah put together a COVID-19 webpage that includes a table that summarizes the reservation situation for lift access and parking. There are quite a few different approaches even for the resorts easily accessible from SLC. Between Epic, Alterra-owned resorts using Ikon for unlimited access, Deer Valley (Alterra-owned by limited on Ikon), and Ikon Partners, best to check directly on a resort website to get the complete information before planning a trip to Utah.






Utah Ski Resorts COVID-19 2021-2022 Safety Protocols


While all ski areas in Utah have adopted the National Ski Areas Association (NSAA) guidelines and follow state and CDC recommendations, each has evolved its own protocols to make sure we can all do what we love, enjoy The Greatest Snow On Earth®.



www.skiutah.com





Unlikely to have travel restrictions to Utah. All the resorts are following NSAA guidelines for safety precautions like face mask usage and distancing. Adjustments to use of indoor space and ski school offerings are fairly well defined already.


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## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> I've been resisting this thread, but it does really makes sense to have it. Please keep this thread to the impact on skiing, riding and winter sports and us the thread in the OT for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Summit County Residents
> 
> 
> Like much of the rest of the country, COVID rates are going up in Summit County. Over the last two weeks, Summit's cumulative rate of cases ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arapahoebasin.blogspot.com


I've spent a lot of time in Summit. I have a good friend who lives there. Just yesterday he calls me and tells me how he just can't wait for opening day (which should be right around the corner with this storm over Colorado right now), and keeps on prodding me to come out, like life is normal for the rest of us. I just have to bite it and change the subject. Its awkward. He and his friends think they're living in paradise, because travel restrictions will keep numbers way down. Maybe, but doubtful. Many have short memories (legal weed will do that), forgetting the domino shutdowns of last Spring. Maybe I'm glass half empty guy, but I forsee a very bad season out there.


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## Benny Profane

MarzNC said:


> Ski Utah put together a COVID-19 webpage that includes a table that summarizes the reservation situation for lift access and parking. There are quite a few different approaches even for the resorts easily accessible from SLC. Between Epic, Alterra-owned resorts using Ikon for unlimited access, Deer Valley (Alterra-owned by limited on Ikon), and Ikon Partners, best to check directly on a resort website to get the complete information before planning a trip to Utah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Utah Ski Resorts COVID-19 2021-2022 Safety Protocols
> 
> 
> While all ski areas in Utah have adopted the National Ski Areas Association (NSAA) guidelines and follow state and CDC recommendations, each has evolved its own protocols to make sure we can all do what we love, enjoy The Greatest Snow On Earth®.
> 
> 
> 
> www.skiutah.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlikely to have travel restrictions to Utah. All the resorts are following NSAA guidelines for safety precautions like face mask usage and distancing. Adjustments to use of indoor space and ski school offerings are fairly well defined already.


It would be political malpractice bordering on criminal behavior if the authorities in Utah do not restrict, at least, flights into SLC soon, if the numbers keep rising. I saw the mayor of SLC tell me on tv last week that ICUs are dangerously near full capacity in her area. Madness.

What are you going to do if you pop your knee in a situation like that?


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## MarzNC

Skiing and boarding has started in the midwest. Trollhaugen in WI opened on Oct. 25 for noon-6pm, lift tickets are $35 for those without a season pass. Wild Mountain in MN got a terrain park set up and is charging $25 until there is more terrain open.


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## Harvey

I understand that my ability to ski this year is way down the totem pole of importance.

Still I am clinging to the hope that:

NY will not bar me from coming to our place
SLIC will install high speed internet on our street by the end of December as promised, so I can reliably work
My family and partner at work will be ok with me taking an extended stay at our cabin
I can time it so that I get some kind of storm or new snow to ski
When I look at all those variables, it does seem like a long shot, that I'll have a memorable season.


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## Brownski

Just for the record:
If I get covid, I will refrain from skiing until I recover


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## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> I understand that my ability to ski this year is way down the totem pole of importance.
> 
> Still I am clinging to the hope that:
> 
> NY will not bar me from coming to our place
> SLIC will install high speed internet on our street by the end of December as promised, so I can reliably work
> My family and partner at work will be ok with me taking an extended stay at our cabin
> I can time it so that I get some kind of storm or new snow to ski
> When I look at all those variables, it does seem like a long shot, that I'll have a memorable season.


 I'm pretty sure that, unless there are widening disparities between NJ, NY, and CT in infection numbers, the tri state will remain a travel free zone.


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## Benny Profane

Brownski said:


> Just for the record:
> If I get covid, I will refrain from skiing until I recover


If I get Covid I'm going to be really pissed I put off that will.


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## Campgottagopee

Better get your turns in early. It wouldn't surprise me if ski areas get shut down again this year.


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## Benny Profane

I know this sport is inside, but, look how quickly the powers that be shut it down. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/s...ronavirus-case-clusters-emerge


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## Ski4

It is difficult to predict what will happen, but I am optimistic. State authorities have been focusing closings on specific locations, micro targeting. It seems unlikely that there will be a wholesale closure of all ski areas as happened in March, however if the numbers keep going up anything can happen. Hopefully we will see another peak and then the numbers will improve. It seems that when things get bad people start to adhere to recommendations like mask wearing and staying at home more seriously. I think there will be a lot less people at the ski areas this winter because youth programs like group ski lesson are not going to be there and it will be difficult for spontaneous trips due to the reservation rules. Finally, anyone who has been part of youth hockey will not be surprised at what happened at the rinks in VT and MA.


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## JTG

Benny Profane said:


> I know this sport is inside, but, look how quickly the powers that be shut it down.
> 
> https://thehill.com/homenews/s...ronavirus-case-clusters-emerge


Somewhat related, but also not skiing...is indoor soccer leagues getting ready to start up. I’ve been playing outdoors for months, but as it gets colder and we move indoors I’m a little concerned....


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## x10003q

Based on the latest VT map from Oct 20, 2020, nobody will be legally skiing in VT on a day trip or weekend trip.


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## TomCat

Being retired, I plan to do mostly mid week skiing. If I ski weekends I will likely ski the morning only so I can avoid the lodge at lunch time.

Tom


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## MarzNC

x10003q said:


> Based on the latest VT map from Oct 20, 2020, nobody will be legally skiing in VT on a day trip or weekend trip.


How do you interpret the VT travel restrictions for people driving? If someone lives 3 hours from a VT ski resort, can they do the 14-day self-quarantine at their home? So someone who is working for home, a day trip might be legal. Or can someone get tested and only quarantine for 7 days before driving to VT for a 1-week ski vacation?

Obviously for someone who lives farther away, following the guidelines gets a lot harder. Note that I'm thinking more about people who live in PA, DE, MD, northern VA. Driving from NC to VT is ridiculous for skiing in general. I only did it for a few years when I had other reasons to drive to Lake Placid or Boston.


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## Harvey

Vermont is advertising to us:


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## Tjf1967

These guidelines are all well and good but I'll go to mountains when I feel I can do it without exposing myself self to the sludge.


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## x10003q

MarzNC said:


> How do you interpret the VT travel restrictions for people driving? If someone lives 3 hours from a VT ski resort, can they do the 14-day self-quarantine at their home? So someone who is working for home, a day trip might be legal. Or can someone get tested and only quarantine for 7 days before driving to VT for a 1-week ski vacation?
> 
> Obviously for someone who lives farther away, following the guidelines gets a lot harder. Note that I'm thinking more about people who live in PA, DE, MD, northern VA. Driving from NC to VT is ridiculous for skiing in general. I only did it for a few years when I had other reasons to drive to Lake Placid or Boston.



From the VT site:

_"*Quarantine means staying at a home or dwelling before doing any activities outside of the home*, like grocery shopping or getting together with friends or family. People in quarantine should separate themselves from others and check themselves for symptoms."_

there is this:

"_*Quarantining Before Coming IS an Option *
If you plan to travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle (including a rental vehicle or private plane), you may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative PCR test in your home state and enter Vermont without further quarantine restrictions. Continue to quarantine until you travel to Vermont."_









COVID-19







www.healthvermont.gov




It is basically unenforceable, but if you try and actually follow VT's rules, you cannot have a child going to school, a job outside the house, and/or a spouse/partner/roommate who works outside of the house. You cannot shop for food or come in contact with the person in your house who does shop for food during the Quarantine period (or you must have food delivery). If you try and quarantine in your house, you better have a large house or a small family.

But, as I said, it is unenforceable.


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## Harvey

x10003q said:


> "_*Quarantining Before Coming IS an Option *
> If you plan to travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle (including a rental vehicle or private plane), you may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative PCR test in your home state and enter Vermont without further quarantine restrictions. Continue to quarantine until you travel to Vermont."_



That is pretty interesting, I never would have thought of it. It all makes the basic point that this ain't going to be solved with law enforcement, it's going to take a ground swell of big picture thinking and community spirit.

This made me chuckle:


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## SayvilleSteve

Looks like it's going to be a very New York-centric ski season. New Hampshire won't let us (New Yorkers) in either:


> (from https://www.visitnh.gov/covid19/reopening)
> *NH residents or out-of-state visitors traveling to/from areas outside of New England (Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts, Connecticut, or Rhode Island) need to self-quarantine for the first 14 days of any intended stay in NH after travel (starting from the last day of their travel outside New England). This recommendation is irrespective of the mode of transportation for travel (public vs. private transportation). It is also acceptable for travelers to New Hampshire to self-quarantine in their home state prior to arrival as long as they do not travel on public transportation.l*


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## Harvey

SayvilleSteve said:


> Looks like it's going to be a very New York-centric ski season. New Hampshire won't let us (New Yorkers) in either...


Interesting because, at this moment, NY is in better shape than CT or Mass.

I will be cryin' the blues if I can't get in to my beloved NY.


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## ScottySkis

SayvilleSteve said:


> Looks like it's going to be a very New York-centric ski season. New Hampshire won't let us (New Yorkers) in either:


Platty time


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## x10003q

NY/NJ/CT governors have released a joint statement about eliminating non-essential travel between the 3 states.

_"Our states have worked together successfully in combating this pandemic since the beginning and we'll continue to do so. The travel advisory was designed to keep our respective states safe, with the understanding that we are a connected region, dependent on each other when it comes to commerce, education, and health care. *We're urging all of our residents to avoid unnecessary or non-essential travel between states at this time, *but will not subject residents of our states to a quarantine if coming from a neighboring state. New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut have among the lowest infection rates in the country because we have based our approaches to controlling the spread on science and data, and we will continue to do so."_









New Jersey moves on from Tri-State Travel Advisory, is Connecticut next?


New Jersey announced Wednesday it is leaving what was formerly known at the Tri-State Travel Advisory.




abc7ny.com


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## NYSnowflake

Cuomo’s Covid email today included this

*“California has been added to New York's Travel Advisory. *Individuals traveling to New York from California must quarantine for 14 days upon arrival in NY. Massachusetts meets the criteria for the travel advisory but due to the region's interconnectedness, quarantine is not practically viable. As such, New York highly discourages non-essential travel between Massachusetts and New York to the extent practical. See more info here.”


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## Brownski

yikes. I feel like the VT travel restrictions are a little absurd but the NY advisories aren’t any better


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## MarzNC

x10003q said:


> COVID-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.healthvermont.gov


Hadn't seen that particular webpage before, mostly because it's really not an issue for me. Driving from NC, it's impossible to avoid quarantine and I have no reason to drive in that direction during ski season. Can shorten it to 7-days but still probably means far fewer people will be driving from Philly, Baltimore, DC to ski in Vermont this season.


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## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I will be cryin' the blues if I can't get in to my beloved NY.



Screw that. You own property in NY, live there, pay taxes. Go and be safe.


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## jasonwx

It’s only late oct
I’m sure this will change by the time january rolls around.


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## Harvey

jasonwx said:


> It’s only late oct
> I’m sure this will change by the time january rolls around


Haha this reminds me of one of Jason's weather forecasts! ?


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## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> It’s only late oct
> I’m sure this will change by the time january rolls around.



Hopefully for the better, I'm fearful it will go the other direction.


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## jasonwx

I’m hoping it will peak soon


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## Campgottagopee

?


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## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> Better get your turns in early. It wouldn't surprise me if ski areas get shut down again this year.


Yeah....especially if Europe is any indication.

Cervinia opened for the winter season on Saturday. Based on that result the Italian Govt by Sunday had shut it down and skiing in Italy is already shut down until Nov 24, at least.


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## Campgottagopee

Good friend of mine is a director for the NYS Health Dept. He's extremely cautious in what he says, but in reading in-between the lines during our conversations it ain't pretty.


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## JTG

More states being added to the naughty list. My daughter just left for Cali (which went back on yesterday) so there’s a 14 day quarantine in her future. So much for Tahoe this year. Colorado is on the naughty list, too. Nevada and New Mexico as well. And Utah. Wyoming. Hey, we still got Washington! Working from home I can afford a 14 day quarantine, but how many people’s jobs can do that?

Our high school just announced that tomorrow and Friday are moving to remote learning (as opposed to in person) because the first domi....er, student, just tested positive for the ‘rona and they need to complete contact tracing.

Everything seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Doesn’t make me all that optimistic for the ski season, glad I didn’t pull the trigger on Ikon.

However, Trump did just announce that we have defeated COVID, so we got that!


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## MarzNC

To get some sense of what states with ski resorts are doing in general, can take a look at this summary of mask usage rules. Seems to be updated on a regular basis and has links to government documents. Gives an overview for each state listed, but doesn't capture local rules. For example the county where Jackson is located, Teton County, has a mask mandate but WY does not in general. A friend lives in Jackson and is a long-time Level 3 instructor at JH. Hope to have a lesson with her in December.









						Does Your State Have a Mask Mandate Due to Coronavirus?
					

States, cities and counties have largely eased requirements that people wear face masks in public to curb COVID. Find out the rules in your state.




					www.aarp.org


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## Benny Profane

x10003q said:


> From the VT site:
> 
> _"*Quarantine means staying at a home or dwelling before doing any activities outside of the home*, like grocery shopping or getting together with friends or family. People in quarantine should separate themselves from others and check themselves for symptoms."_
> 
> there is this:
> 
> "_*Quarantining Before Coming IS an Option *
> If you plan to travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle (including a rental vehicle or private plane), you may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative PCR test in your home state and enter Vermont without further quarantine restrictions. Continue to quarantine until you travel to Vermont."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.healthvermont.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is basically unenforceable, but if you try and actually follow VT's rules, you cannot have a child going to school, a job outside the house, and/or a spouse/partner/roommate who works outside of the house. You cannot shop for food or come in contact with the person in your house who does shop for food during the Quarantine period (or you must have food delivery). If you try and quarantine in your house, you better have a large house or a small family.
> 
> But, as I said, it is unenforceable.




Again, the only way it is "enforceable" is at the hotel check in desk.

Gold, Jerry, gold, if you own a condo up there.


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## Peter Minde

As far as nordic skiing goes. The only races in the northeast are for kids looking to qualify for Junior Nationals. Or SuperTour events for senior athletes. No citizens' races that I'm aware of and that's OK.


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## Q*bert Jones IV

Benny Profane said:


> What are you going to do if you pop your knee in a situation like that?


I feel like if I 

stay close to home
avoid the gondola and lodge
wear a mask and practice social distancing
then I can ski no problem. But if I break a leg or whatever and have to go to an overburdened hospital because I was a dumbshit, I'd feel absolutely terrible.


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## Harvey

COVID vs. the Ski Industry


With all of us looking for things to do outside this winter, are New England’s already-fragile ski resorts heading for a wipeout?




www.bostonmagazine.com


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## JTG

France on lock down through at least Dec 1, French ski resorts cancelling planned openings at this time...


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## raisingarizona

Things aren’t looking good out this way


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## Harvey

Tell, please?


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## ScottySkis

*If a person wants to visit New York or if a resident left New York for more than 24 hours, they must first take a COVID test that proves they are negative within days prior to their arrival.https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/31/visiting-new-york-covid-quarantine-test-what-to-know/6102236002/*


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## MarzNC

ScottySkis said:


> *If a person wants to visit New York or if a resident left New York for more than 24 hours, they must first take a COVID test that proves they are negative within days prior to their arrival.https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/31/visiting-new-york-covid-quarantine-test-what-to-know/6102236002/*


Far more sensible than a list of states that changes every week. Putting the basics here since the article is somewhat behind a firewall.

_". . ._
_Here's the new policy_​_*Visiting from a non-contiguous state: *If a person wants to visit New York or if a resident left New York for more than 24 hours and wants to return, they must first take a COVID test that proves they are negative within three days prior to their arrival.

*Arriving in New York: *When a visitor or resident returns to the state, even after a negative test before arrival, they have to quarantine for three days. Then, on the fourth day, they need to take another COVID test. If it's negative, they can be released from quarantine. If not, they have to fulfill a 14-day quarantine.

*Leaving New York for less than 24 hours:* If a person left New York to a non-border state for less than 24 hours, the traveler would not need to take a test before a return. But he or she would need to take a COVID test after four days.

*Dealing with border states: *For New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and Vermont, the testing requirements do not apply because how often people might travel between the states for work or personal trips, Cuomo said.


Cuomo said people traveling from out of state for more than 24 hours would essentially have two tests within seven days that should help detect most positive cases.

"The mandatory quarantine is actually three days upon arrival, you can get a test on the fourth day. The test says you’re negative, that’s that," Cuomo explained.

"So you will have a test within three days of arrival, that says your negative, a test four days after arrival that says you’re negative. Four days plus three days is seven days, and that is basically by all probability the incubation period."
. . ."_


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## JTG

I wonder how something like that will hold up, legally. A tax paying resident of NY could be precluded from returning to their domicile for an extended period, assuming they travel and then test positive. Can they do that?

This new restriction would make ski travel harder, for me at least. I typically do a 3 day weekend somewhere out West.

I could get a test the day I leave NY (say Friday). I’d get on a plane not knowing if the result was negative. If it was I’d have 72 hours to begin my return travel. Test at 3pm on Friday, I’d have to be on a plane by 3pm Monday. So, two days of skiing as opposed to three. I suppose if I flew out on a Friday and could schedule a test out there Saturday then a third day of skiing Monday could be possible. Then I have to deal with quarantine/test upon return.

That could be doable, if I decided travel was worth the risk/trouble.

If you are traveling for longer you’d need to make appointments to have a test done where you are traveling to....and hope it comes back neg.

It would suck to travel, test positive, then not be able to return home.

I guess airlines are going to require a copy of your negative result before they let you board?


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## MarzNC

I've heard that people who flew into Hawaii but had used the wrong type of test were required to do the 14-day quarantine. Clearly the airlines are not checking before people board.









Tens of thousands arrive in Hawaii with pre-travel testing


Hawaii had more than 65,000 travelers arrive in the islands in the first week of its pre-travel coronavirus testing program.



www.usatoday.com





A friend is hesitant about flying for a ski trip because he tends to pick up some crud during that kind of trip. Airlines are not letting people with Covid-like symptoms get on board. He's considered bringing work along in case he has to delay his return home.


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## marcski

Like JTG said, with our system of Federalism, I believe these State "restrictions" on travel are almost more like guidelines at least for vehicle travel. Traveling by air is different.


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## XTski

JTG said:


> I wonder how something like that will hold up, legally. A tax paying resident of NY could be precluded from returning to their domicile for an extended period, assuming they travel and then test positive. Can they do that?
> 
> This new restriction would make ski travel harder, for me at least. I typically do a 3 day weekend somewhere out West.
> 
> I could get a test the day I leave NY (say Friday). I’d get on a plane not knowing if the result was negative. If it was I’d have 72 hours to begin my return travel. Test at 3pm on Friday, I’d have to be on a plane by 3pm Monday. So, two days of skiing as opposed to three. I suppose if I flew out on a Friday and could schedule a test out there Saturday then a third day of skiing Monday could be possible. Then I have to deal with quarantine/test upon return.
> 
> That could be doable, if I decided travel was worth the risk/trouble.
> 
> If you are traveling for longer you’d need to make appointments to have a test done where you are traveling to....and hope it comes back neg.
> 
> It would suck to travel, test positive, then not be able to return home.
> 
> I guess airlines are going to require a copy of your negative result before they let you board?


They are like stop lights in Italy, just suggestions


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## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> Tell, please?


Numbers are going up every day, much more now than the 1st wave.

I don’t really know anything but I bet more restrictions are on the way.


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## Harvey

COVID-19 Travel Advisory
					

As of June 25, 2021, the New York State Travel Advisory is no longer in effect.




					coronavirus.health.ny.gov


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## gorgonzola

Harvey said:


> COVID-19 Travel Advisory
> 
> 
> As of June 25, 2021, the New York State Travel Advisory is no longer in effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coronavirus.health.ny.gov


"exempting the contiguous states.." ???


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## JTG

XTski said:


> They are like stop lights in Italy, just suggestions


Marcski made the key distinction though. If traveling by car it’s an honor system, but for air travel (and perhaps through other transportation hubs) we’ll have to see. Flying into NY you risk a hefty fine if you don’t fill out the traveller form, if you can even get off the plane and out of the airport without compliance. It will be interesting to see if airlines require a test in hand to even board. My daughter flies back from CA Wednesday, assuming the test she just has done comes back neg. Once you are on record with the traveler form it seems the State may (or at least could) expect follow up reporting on the testing requirements. There could be daily fines for noncompliance.

Sure, there are a lot of coulds and maybes there, but being on record with a form I’m not sure I’d want to risk potential fines, if there is any kind of enforcement.

My comment had more to do with the constitutionality of preventing a resident from returning to their home, and if that aspect finds its way into the courts.


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## JTG

gorgonzola said:


> "exempting the contiguous states.." ???


NJ, PA, CT, MA....too much interstate travel/commerce between them to effectively restrict. For better or worse that seems to put economics over virus mitigation?


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## MarzNC

gorgonzola said:


> "exempting the contiguous states.." ???


Mostly only mentioning PA, NJ, CT specifically. The idea is that too many people commute daily so any travel restriction is completely impractical.

Dealing with COVID-19 and potential community spread is a balancing act. Obviously if everyone stayed home except for grocery shopping for a month, then transmission would slow down quickly. But far too many downsides. Whether or not travel restrictions really work is harder to say. But for a region that is noticeably different that can minimize people coming in who are less likely to be following safety guidelines like mask usage and keeping their distance from even friends and family, certainly can help decrease the number of travelers wandering around infecting people. Still plenty of people who don't understand that could be infectious for several days before having any symptoms. Or that wearing a mask is to protect others more than just to protect them from getting COVID-19.


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## Green light

Economics over mitigation..... Florida


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## XTski

JTG said:


> Marcski made the key distinction though. If traveling by car it’s an honor system, but for air travel (and perhaps through other transportation hubs) we’ll have to see. Flying into NY you risk a hefty fine if you don’t fill out the traveller form, if you can even get off the plane and out of the airport without compliance. It will be interesting to see if airlines require a test in hand to even board. My daughter flies back from CA Wednesday, assuming the test she just has done comes back neg. Once you are on record with the traveler form it seems the State may (or at least could) expect follow up reporting on the testing requirements. There could be daily fines for noncompliance.
> 
> Sure, there are a lot of coulds and maybes there, but being on record with a form I’m not sure I’d want to risk potential fines, if there is any kind of enforcement.
> 
> My comment had more to do with the constitutionality of preventing a resident from returning to their home, and if that aspect finds its way into the courts.


don’t know what he thinks, I was talking about driving, flying just doesn’t make sense with covid


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## Harvey

Some good honest talk IMO.


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## MarzNC

Anyone care to wade thru the newly released rules for VT ski areas?

Vermont Ski Resort COVID- 19 Winter Operations Guidance - released Nov. 3, 2020


https://accd.vermont.gov/sites/accdnew/files/documents/Vermont%20Ski%20Resort%20COVID-19%20Winter%20Operations%20Guidance%20-%202020-11-03.pdf


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## Brownski

Short version: Either out -of -staters break the rules and lie or the resorts lose tons of money.


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## riverc0il

> Contact Tracing / Travel Policy Attestation
> 
> • Resorts must collect the name, phone number, and email address in an electronic format of all people using the resort each day, and retain the list for 30 days for the purposes of contact tracing. This list must include all guests using the resort, including season pass holders. Whenever possible, the resort should include the guest’s physical address.
> 
> • Resorts must require guests to attest that the guest will be in compliance with the state’s travel and quarantine policies when they use the resort either at the point of sale of a ticket or season pass OR when collecting contact tracing information. Resorts must be able to demonstrate to state authorities that each guest completed an attestation. Attestations must include a warning that failure to comply with the state’s travel and quarantine policy may result in the loss of future skiing and riding privileges.
> 
> • Whenever possible, a resort should collect the name, phone number, address and email address in an electronic format of all people using any indoor space, such as a lodge or cafeteria, including the time, date and where they sat, and retain the list for 30 days.



That seems to be the most important part, IMO. This means that resorts are responsible for tracking and certifying their guests are in compliance with the travel restrictions (whether staying at the resort, off the resort, or day tripping, is I read it). That is going to quite challenging to execute, especially considering that this "mandatory guidance" (that is a contradiction) is coming out weeks before resorts are planning to open.


----------



## marcski

These are basically the same as what has been discussed here in this thread. Nothing really new in these guidelines.


----------



## MarzNC

marcski said:


> These are basically the same as what has been discussed here in this thread. Nothing really new in these guidelines.


Including having the detailed contact info about everyone, every ski day in electronic format? Normally even when an electronic Liability Waiver is required it only needs to be filled out once and then it's good for a year. Have done that at climbing gyms and ski resorts. But for a resort that doesn't have that in place, setting it up in less than a month . . . I wouldn't want to be the GM having to deal with the process and the unexpected cost.

I've heard about having people provide contact info as they enter a restaurant. But that's was a paper list, which wouldn't really require much effort to keep for a short length of time.

The much cleaner approach is what New Zealand set up months ago. Every public building was given a QR code. People with a smart phone could scan it on entering and that provided info that could be used in the event contact tracing became necessary.


----------



## marcski

MarzNC said:


> Including having the detailed contact info about everyone, every ski day in electronic format? Normally even when an electronic Liability Waiver is required it only needs to be filled out once and then it's good for a year. Have done that at climbing gyms and ski resorts. But for a resort that doesn't have that in place, setting it up in less than a month . . . I wouldn't want to be the GM having to deal with the process and the unexpected cost.
> 
> I've heard about having people provide contact info as they enter a restaurant. But that's was a paper list, which wouldn't really require much effort to keep for a short length of time.
> 
> The much cleaner approach is what New Zealand set up months ago. Every public building was given a QR code. People with a smart phone could scan it on entering and that provided info that could be used in the event contact tracing became necessary.


I agree. But using K-mart as an example, I believe one of the reasons they (and other VT ski areas) set up a parking reservation system is to have you "check the box" upon making your reso. All ticket sales (at almost every area I've seen) are online only this year, so you chdck the box And, if you are a passholder they already have your info when your pass is scanned at the lift so they can track you. I'd think if you are a passholder, you stilI have direct to lift access.


----------



## MarzNC

marcski said:


> I agree. But using K-mart as an example, I believe one of the reasons they (and other VT ski areas) set up a parking reservation system is to have you "check the box" upon making your reso. All ticket sales (at almost every area I've seen) are online only this year, so you chdck the box And, if you are a passholder they already have your info when your pass is scanned at the lift so they can track you. I'd think if you are a passholder, you stilI have direct to lift access.


What other VT ski area is going to use parking reservations? I'd only heard about Powdr resorts for parking reservations.

No question that ski resorts using RFID shouldn't have too much trouble getting data for everyone who shows up into a database even a daily basis. But the situation is still tricky for resorts that don't have their own IT staff who can make needed changes to be able to pull out info for contact tracing if needed. If a resort is using third-party software then that adds another level of complexity.

I gather from the SAM article about the VT guidelines that the requirement for an electronic database for contact tracing purposes was added relatively recently. So the timeframe is quite short for ski resorts to make needed adjustments.

I can think of ways of using a paper list and data entry for a small ski area like Suicide Six, but even coming up with that sort of manual process takes time. My professional background was directly related to design and support of data entry systems for research purposes. For contact tracing, if someone's name was spelled wrong because of a typo that wasn't caught by some checking process then that would be a potential problem.


----------



## Benny Profane

Two things. Thanksgiving will be a super spreader macro event in this country, bleeding well into December, and then, Xmas will be the spike in that, er, coffin. We ain't seen nothing yet. If I may inject a little politics into this, after yesterday's results, no matter who eventually wins, we know that America will be hell bent on a herd immunity solution. At least half of us. Good luck to you all.

And the whole lack of lodges will deter most of the market from skiing. I mean, by the nature of people who hang in ski forums, most of us here will put up with sheltering in their cars, somewhat, but the New Jersey family will reject that outright after the first cold, windy day. Just get there early so it isn't too much of a walk, and congratulate yourself for having a remote starter.


----------



## Campgottagopee

I'm staying home

I'm skiing Greek Peak

Or riding my sled

Or hunting

Or all three

Or just two of the three


----------



## JTG

My daughter passed her pre-departure COVID test (CVS drive thru) and is headed back from CA now. For you NY/TriState region folks, when she gets back and out of the airport I’ll find out at which points (if any) anybody might have checked her papers, so you all have an idea of what flying into NY entails these days.


----------



## MarzNC

As expected the PR for the opening of the Epic Reservation system started yesterday. I gather the Queue-It online Waiting Room is stuffed this morning. But VR is undoubtedly not surprised after the experience in June when the system opened up for Perisher, Hotham, and Falls Creek. The volume overwhelmed Queue-It pretty quickly. The hour-by-hour postings on the Aussie ski forum were interesting to see. We'll see how things go the next 24-48 hours for N. America.









Weekends, holidays at Park City ski area up for grabs to pass holders starting Friday


The run on coveted weekend and holiday access to the peaks around Park City begins Friday.




www.sltrib.com





People interested in skiing at Keystone this weekend were able to get in yesterday to pick up a reservation.









Online reservations for opening weekend at Keystone fill up in first hour | OutThere Colorado


Epic Pass Holders can no longer make reservations to hit the slopes on opening weekend at Keystone Resort. All available spots for Saturday and Sunday were fully booked within the




www.outtherecolorado.com


----------



## The UNHOLY

It will be interesting to see if ORDA can even open the ski resorts this year. Agree or disagree but Cuomo is locking stuff down...remote learning for SUNY Colleges after Thanksgiving, negative results if you travel to NY (being enforced by more police and now the National Guard). It would be very odd to have all these state restrictions but then allow state ski areas to open. There is less than a month to return your ORDA Season Pass for a full refund, as it looks at this moment, a refund might not be a bad thing. Damn.


----------



## MarzNC

Are employees for ORDA resorts mostly NY residents? Put another way, can the resorts find enough NY residents for the bulk of their staffing?

Since there are no travel restrictions for PA, NJ, and CT, I know there are people there who plan to drive up to ski in NY. Either in the Catskills or even long weekends up at Gore or Whiteface. Keeping things open at the resorts would bring in money for not only ORDA but also local businesses that depend on tourists during the winter. Based on the summer experience by the resorts in New England, little reason to think that having them open during the winter would cause increases in community spread. Certainly not in the way that college students might if they go home for Thanksgiving, attend social gatherings, and then returned to campus.

The UNC colleges all decided back in the summer to finish the fall semester the week before Thanksgiving. Won't open for the spring semester until after MLK Day, Jan. 18. That gives students two weeks after New Year's, hopefully mainly staying at home.


----------



## JTG

The UNHOLY said:


> It will be interesting to see if ORDA can even open the ski resorts this year. Agree or disagree but Cuomo is locking stuff down...remote learning for SUNY Colleges after Thanksgiving, negative results if you travel to NY (being enforced by more police and now the National Guard). It would be very odd to have all these state restrictions but then allow state ski areas to open. There is less than a month to return your ORDA Season Pass for a full refund, as it looks at this moment, a refund might not be a bad thing. Damn.


Well....

Remote learning for SUNY Colleges after Thanksgiving is somewhat true....but that headline is misleading.

For the couple of weeks left of the semester after Thanksgiving most students won’t return to campuses. However, some can, and then students will be back on campuses when the Spring semester starts. Sure, that could change if COVID explodes, but right now the plan isn’t to abandon campus learning. It just doesn’t make sense to have students travel home for Thanksgiving, potentially pick up the virus, then return to campus for a couple of weeks when they can take finals online.

Right now there is no enforcement at the airports, as my daughter just flew into Newark and she was never required to produce evidence of any testing. Looks like that could be changing.


----------



## Cork

MarzNC said:


> Are employees for ORDA resorts mostly NY residents? Put another way, can the resorts find enough NY residents for the bulk of their staffing?


Gore has all of their employees from local areas. WF (Centerplate the food vendor) on the other hand, has been using foreign labor in the lodges for a few years now.


----------



## MarzNC

JTG said:


> Right now there is no enforcement at the airports, as my daughter just flew into Newark and she was never required to produce evidence of any testing. Looks like that could be changing.


NJ was never set up like NY. Same general guidelines but more clearly only "recommendations" the last time I looked.

My friend who is in the real estate business has had clients fly into Albany (Sept? Oct?). In one case the couple forgot to fill out the back of the NY Travel Form so didn't provide a contact phone number. A contact tracer found a way to call any way to check and see if they were doing the right thing.


----------



## MarzNC

Those who got reservations for Keystone Opening Day, Friday, Nov. 6, had a good time. The Epic Reservation system was opened the morning of Nov. 5 just for Keystone Nov. 6-13. So before the long queue this morning when all Epic resorts could be reserved for Priority 7-Day reservations. Sold out Nov. 6-8 before lunch time, but only 60 acres open so pretty limited numbers available.

One guy known as Nat Doggggg has been flying from MN for years just to be there for Opening Day. Took the first gondola instead of first chair, but still got to be first through a banner at the top.









PHOTOS: Front Range ski season begins and everything feels different


Keystone beats rivals Arapahoe Basin and Loveland for the first time in 23 years amid pandemic restrictions.




theknow.denverpost.com


----------



## Harvey

Here we go, from Vermont...


*CROSS STATE TRAVEL INFORMATION*

The State of Vermont has suspended its leisure travel map and implemented a mandatory quarantine for anyone returning or traveling to Vermont.

Leisure Travel

Due to raising COVID-19 case counts across the Northeast, effective on November 10, 2020, the State of Vermont has suspended its leisure travel map and implemented a mandatory quarantine for anyone returning or traveling to Vermont.

A regional map will continue to be maintained on the Agency of Commerce and Community Development and the Department of Financial Regulation websites for informational purposes only. The regional map will continue to be updated weekly on Tuesdays.

The regional map is populated with raw data from Johns Hopkins University and uses multiple factors to determine how many active cases are in each county. Read the complete methodology for how active cases per million residents is being calculated. The aggregated data by county is also available.


So the shit is hitting the fan, or more accurately people are realizing that the shit has hit the fan. The consequences are starting to dawn on skiers.

The thing that surprises me is that people are surprised.

I don't see how VT has a ski season. And there will be a ripple effect in NY and NH especially.


----------



## Harvey

I saw a lot of feedback over the last day, from my post on the front page. I'm not saying I know this or that regulation is too strong or too weak (time will tell). The sense of entitlement from some skiers astounds me.


----------



## Benny Profane

"The sense of entitlement from some skiers astounds me."

Oh, yeah, I hear you. But, it's a bit beyond that. It's a general detachment and cluelessness of the upper middle class that is kind of astounding at times. A former co-worker of mine introduced me to a phrase when I complained about the ill manners of some people - "I'm the only person in the world." Its why America has botched this pandemic response and will continue to. This winter is not going to be good, and no skiing is the least of our problems.


----------



## Peter Minde

Benny Profane said:


> "The sense of entitlement from some skiers astounds me."
> 
> Oh, yeah, I hear you. But, it's a bit beyond that. It's a general detachment and cluelessness of the upper middle class that is kind of astounding at times. A former co-worker of mine introduced me to a phrase when I complained about the ill manners of some people - "I'm the only person in the world." Its why America has botched this pandemic response and will continue to. This winter is not going to be good, and no skiing is the least of our problems.


Yep. Not being able to ski = first world problem.


----------



## Harvey

How Vermont's Ski Industry Is Preparing For A Winter Like No Other


This winter season will look different than those past for ski areas and ski towns across Vermont. This hour, we check in with members of Vermont's ski…




www.vpr.org


----------



## Harvey

Just listened to half of the pod above, sounds like Jay and Killy are estimating business being down 50% and Bolton estimating 20%.

I keep hear this idea that the "big companies" can weather a terrible season better than a smaller company. This seems to be conventional wisdom, but to me not necessarily logical. Assuming Vail is the biggest, every single one of their properties is in the same boat as every individual property.

Any one got opinions, information or facts?


----------



## XTski

Awesome to hear Solimono say they are hoping to open sometime next week, yes I mentioned bigger indipendent places like the beast will be able to handle the season better, I thought Vail etc to be too “spread out” , I did like them when owed by George Gillet thanks Harv


----------



## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> Just listened to half of the pod above, sounds like Jay and Killy are estimating business being down 50% and Bolton estimating 20%.
> 
> I keep hear this idea that the "big companies" can weather a terrible season better than a smaller company. This seems to be conventional wisdom, but to me not necessarily logical. Assuming Vail is the biggest, every single one of their properties is in the same boat as every individual property.
> 
> Any one got opinions, information or facts?


Thanks Harv, for the excellent NPR podcast/recording.

Yeah, big companies may be more prone to severe damage from all this, because they tend to have more debt. I know Vail had to run for help in the financial world this Spring because they were already having debt issues before Covid struck. But, if you've been watching the corruption from high above, no doubt that company can wrangle some help from the taxpayer if they smile and grovel for it. Maybe.

Lazlo at Plattekill has it right. Debt is poison. He'll survive this.


----------



## Harvey

Benny Profane said:


> Laszlo at Plattekill has it right. Debt is poison. He'll survive this.


He is religious about it. Every summer his capital investment comes from that year's revenue. Snowmaking most often.

One thing that Steve Wright said that I found interesting and relates to my blog post (paraphrased):

"I hear people saying 'no one is honoring travel restrictions.' It's easy to look at license plates and say, 'look at all those violators.' Maybe yes maybe no. But I can tell you we are off our pace for Christmas reservations by 70%, so someone is honoring them."


----------



## Brownski

Yeah, I’ve probably said it before but I would expect to see some divesting of resorts by the big companies coming out of this. Debt is always a gamble. They‘re gambling that cash flow will increase and won’t be interrupted. They can cut prices to trade margin for cash flow but if the state says 70% of your customers can’t come to your hill....


----------



## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> He is religious about it. Every summer his capital investment comes from that year's revenue. Snowmaking most often.
> 
> One thing that Steve Wright said that I found interesting and relates to my blog post (paraphrased):
> 
> "I hear people saying 'no one is honoring travel restrictions.' It's easy to look at license plates and say, 'look at all those violators.' Maybe yes maybe no. But I can tell you we are off our pace for Christmas reservations by 70%, so someone is honoring them."


Half of his traffic is walled off at the Canadian border. Half. Then there's probably half of the remaining northeast skiers who can't or won't go. I tell you, if the lifts are spinning and it dumps there this winter, heaven.
They're positioned differently than other big Vermont resorts. They're coming out of bankruptcy and in recievership. Actively being shopped around. So, they have no corporate overlords to answer to, yet, and can maybe be a bit more liberal with spending on lifts and grooming. Still, the value of that place has to be way lower than this time last year. The resort biz is in a depression.

Did you hear that woman who called in and her stories of Austria? Instant testing! What America needs. Such a failure. Thanks, Trump. If there was an instant test available at hotel desks, even if the traveller paid for it, a lot of problems solved.


----------



## Harvey

Brownski said:


> Debt is always a gamble. They‘re gambling that cash flow will increase and won’t be interrupted.


This is thread drift, but this is why I am debt averse. I've been working for 40 years and been through 4 big economic meltdowns (One wasn't an economic cycle, but caused by the owners of the company I work for taking a big risk.)

So it's not even really a gamble. The shit WILL hit the fan, and if you need full revenue to service your debt, your screwed. It's not realistic to assume that nothing ever goes wrong.


----------



## Harvey

Benny Profane said:


> Half of his traffic is walled off at the Canadian border. Half.


70% of his summer business is Canada too, so he's coming off a bad spring, and a terrible summer.


----------



## Benny Profane

Yeah, that's a serious four season resort. They did something like 75 weddings a year or two ago. Lots of conferences, and even lacrosse camps.


----------



## jasonwx

What is the first thing big business will do when revenue tanks? They will cut expenses. Top of the list is labor and snowmaking at least in the northeast


----------



## Harvey

We haven't seen the snowmaking this year because of the temps haven't been there, but employment is definitely down, if you listen to that pod.


----------



## jasonwx

Darn pod won’t load on my phone


----------



## The UNHOLY

Interesting article in today's paper - 

https://www.timesunion.com/business...r-not-skiers-boarders-want-their-15719973.php


----------



## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> We haven't seen the snowmaking this year because of the temps haven't been there, but employment is definitely down, if you listen to that pod.


And, with employment down, skiers on the hill will be down. Killington gives employees free family passes, and I'm guessing that's a perk at other mountains in Vermont, too.


----------



## Peter Minde

Harvey said:


> Just listened to half of the pod above, sounds like Jay and Killy are estimating business being down 50% and Bolton estimating 20%.
> 
> I keep hear this idea that the "big companies" can weather a terrible season better than a smaller company. This seems to be conventional wisdom, but to me not necessarily logical. Assuming Vail is the biggest, every single one of their properties is in the same boat as every individual property.
> 
> Any one got opinions, information or facts?


I listened to the whole podcast. Good and informative, although I would have like to hear a bit more from nordic area managers / owners. Sounds about like I expected: things are gonna be tough.


----------



## MarzNC

I stopped by the Massanutten snowsports office on the way home. Heard that they were busier in Sept and Oct than any other year. Remember, it's a timeshare resort so there is plenty of lodging. A lot of people live in easy driving distance (2.5 hours form DC, Richmond, etc.). They are in the midst of re-arranging the interior space of both the usual rental building and the ski school building next door that will be use for rentals this season. Mostly for the snowboard gear. But will have some ski gear for kids there too. That way a family who needs both can just go in one building.

Mnut is going to use the Wintersteiger software for rentals that handles all the paperwork in advance. The techs will end up with much less contact time for a given renter.

Only offering private lessons. No children's snowsports lessons. That will cut down on the number of people interested. But also means fewer instructors will be needed. Even with the city of Harrisonburg and local towns nearby, staffing is always a challenge. Not only for ski school instructors, rental techs, or lifties, but also for the indoor waterpark and other amenities at the resort.

Indy Pass holders won't need to make a reservation. Day tickets will be limited, with some reserved for timeshare owners or resort guests. Season passholders don't need reservations for lift access.


----------



## marcski

Benny Profane said:


> And, with employment down, skiers on the hill will be down. Killington gives employees free family passes, and I'm guessing that's a perk at other mountains in Vermont, too.



I am a bit worried about snowmaking or particularly the lack of this season. Certainly, a cost that the mountain can contain....especially if they are expecting such drastic decreases in skier visits.


----------



## Benny Profane

I think Thanksgiving will be a super spreader event, nationwide. We ain't seen nothing yet.


----------



## Harvey

marcski said:


> I am a bit worried about snowmaking or particularly the lack of this season.



I don't see how the mountains are going to blow a normal amount of snow. The 6-10 day looks cold-ish, so I think we'll get a look into their thinking.


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Lodging businesses: State’s quarantine announcement sends wrong message


After a spate of cancellations, inns and B&Bs want the state to make clear that people can still visit Vermont.



vtdigger.org


----------



## Brownski

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail


----------



## The UNHOLY

NYSkiBlog said:


> Lodging businesses: State’s quarantine announcement sends wrong message
> 
> 
> After a spate of cancellations, inns and B&Bs want the state to make clear that people can still visit Vermont.
> 
> 
> 
> vtdigger.org


14 day quarantine is a ban ...it removes the weekend traveler and the out of state day skier. I feel bad for businesses going through this...but spin doctoring this ain't gonna work.


----------



## JTG

Hey, you “just have to quarantine”!

Sure, you CAN still come, but the quarantine requirements (on both ends) are an effective ban for most. You are right, you can’t spin that away.


----------



## idratherbskiing

Harvey said:


> I don't see how the mountains are going to blow a normal amount of snow. The 6-10 day looks cold-ish, so I think we'll get a look into their thinking.


I'm thinking White ribbon of death at most places to say "were open!" with a 2 or 3 trail count.


----------



## JTG

Whether or not someone has any out of state skiing this season really depends upon the answers to the questions.....do you intend to comply with stated travel restrictions and do you intend to answer honestly if you are involved in any contact tracing? 

Realistically there’s no way for VT to know if you quarantined for 14 days before going to VT or not, or for NY to know you travelled to VT.....unless you get sick and contact tracing happens, and you answer related questions honestly. How willing are people to take on the remote financial risk of penalties if not honest? Not something I really want to risk. Flying into NY airports for western travel could get dicey, if there’s enforcement at the airports. Maybe the EWR loophole stays open for a NY traveller to slip in under any enforcement, but who knows? So many variables right now.

For me, sad as it is, as things stand I’m not sure I see myself skiing out of state this season. Too many hoops to jump thru to stay on the up and up. While I may be working from home (easier to quarantine), even if I were inclined to bend the “rules” (which I’m not saying I am), my wife isn’t, and she works in a public school. She can’t afford quarantine. She’s also concerned (as she should be) that if the kids or I don’t all comply, and one of us gets sick, and she spreads COVID to her school and causes any kind of shut down....it will reflect badly on her. I have to respect that.

I don’t foresee a great season, unless we get lots of snow and ADK backcountry is in play. Still waiting for Whiteface to start selling tickets for MLK weekend but nothing yet. Midweek powder chasing day trips in NY could be easier this season (since I haven’t used much PTO since March)...if online tickets are available.


----------



## Harvey

It was cut short, but had a great season in NY last year. I got 25 days. If I'd gotten my normal 35, it probably would have been my best ever. My season was all in NY except one day at Killy. I'm ready to take what Ullr gives me.


----------



## JTG

Yeah, a renewed focus for me on NY areas could be good....if Ullr delivers. More time in the woods at Platty and Gore Is always a good thing. Take what you can get, which as you point out doesn’t have to be bad at all!


----------



## Tjf1967

This year will be the year I hit the lake effect hills. I don't have a orda pass so that will send me traveling. Thought I would spend some time in Vermont. I pretty sure I could slip in and out safely but the covid questionnaire each day would jam me up at work. Oh well


----------



## MarzNC

JTG said:


> Hey, you “just have to quarantine”!
> 
> Sure, you CAN still come, but the quarantine requirements (on both ends) are an effective ban for most. You are right, you can’t spin that away.


Having travel restrictions for both VT and NY certainly makes it completely silly for a NY resident to drive to VT for skiing.

I wonder how many people in CT or MA think it's worth quarantining at home for 7 or 14 days before going on their usual ski resort vacation in VT.

The Killington Winter Ops webpage has quite a few topics that are unique to COVID-19 and being in VT. Parking reservations, out-of-state visitor requirements, face coverings, "treat your car like a base" are the most obvious just from the headings.


----------



## MarzNC

JTG said:


> For me, sad as it is, as things stand I’m not sure I see myself skiing out of state this season. Too many hoops to jump thru to stay on the up and up. While I may be working from home (easier to quarantine), even if I were inclined to bend the “rules” (which I’m not saying I am), my wife isn’t, and she works in a public school. She can’t afford quarantine. She’s also concerned (as she should be) that if the kids or I don’t all comply, and one of us gets sick, and she spreads COVID to her school and causes any kind of shut down....it will reflect badly on her. I have to respect that.


My friend who lives in PA isn't restricted from driving to NY. So she intends to ski in NY a bit this season, but isn't going to bother with VT/NH/ME. Originally she was thinking about meeting up with friends to ski in Maine. They were curious to check out Saddleback. But that will have to wait.

I'm too far away for skiing in NY/New England to be worth the effort. If NM keeps their travel restrictions, I'll change my plans for early Feb. There are work arounds, but I don't feel right using them. Felt odd enough being in Lake Placid in early July right after the NY travel rules were started. But my friends and I were in the middle of the trip when the news broke. That was before the online NY Travel Form was created. So we stuck the the plan, which was always to stay very close to the house on a private lake and not do any indoor activities. But I was still relieved when we crossed the state line on the way home at the end of that week. It was like when you see the highway patrol car you are staying behind on the Interstate gest off at an exit.


----------



## Brownski

Yeah, even if I was working from home2-4 weeks of strict quarantine would be onerous


----------



## MarzNC

Interesting, looking at the Stowe and Mount Snow homepages you would have any idea that VT has travel restrictions. Very different from Killington or Sugarbush. Not that prominent for Stratton, but there is a section that clearly is related to COVID-19 on the homepage with the title "A New Way To Winter."


----------



## idratherbskiing

MarzNC said:


> Interesting, looking at the Stowe and Mount Snow homepages you would have any idea that VT has travel restrictions. Very different from Killington or Sugarbush. Not that prominent for Stratton, but there is a section that clearly is related to COVID-19 on the homepage with the title "A New Way To Winter."


Epic vs ikon seems like ikon crew is just putting the info out there. Vail wants you to come spend Monyy and then you deal with the consequences


----------



## Benny Profane

It's probably a blessing that it's too warm to make snow. At this rate most hills may welcome a level playing field with a statewide shutdown.


----------



## MarzNC

idratherbskiing said:


> Epic vs ikon seems like ikon crew is just putting the info out there. Vail wants you to come spend Monyy and then you deal with the consequences


Certainly a difference between Alterra and VR. But for the websites VR may be slower to make changes because the result has to be consistent. That's not how Alterra works from an IT standpoint.


----------



## MarzNC

Berkshire East and Catamount are doing something cool to provide safe indoor space. Learned about it on the Indy Pass FB page.









What can you expect from Catamount and Berkshire East this year?


On Thursday, March 12, 2020, Berkshire East and Catamount became the first ski areas to shut down for COVID. Within 100 hours, most ski areas in the country had followed suit.




catamountski.com





_". . .
A lot of effort is going into building 100 winter timber framed ‘cabanas’ that will fit a group of 6. These units are being manufactured at Catamount, using wood responsibly harvested from our Warfield House farm, and milled at Hall Tavern Farm in Charlemont. Fifty will end up at each mountain, respectively, providing up to an additional 300 extra seats at each space.

These units will have heat, a table and provide space for a family. We are still working on allocating these units to customers each day, but we will announce that process in the coming weeks. The lodges will operate per state guidelines at reduced capacity. Berkshire East will see the addition of new outdoor gathering spaces and patios that will be fun and very logical once you see it.
. . ."_


----------



## MarzNC

Didn't know that the Schaefers are also involved in operating Hermitage for the new owners. I knew they were working at Bousquet.


----------



## riverc0il

NYSkiBlog said:


> Lodging businesses: State’s quarantine announcement sends wrong message
> 
> 
> After a spate of cancellations, inns and B&Bs want the state to make clear that people can still visit Vermont.
> 
> 
> 
> vtdigger.org


From the article:


> “Nobody is saying you can’t come to Vermont, even now,” said Tim Piper of Warren, president of the Vermont Inn and Bed and Breakfast Association. “But that’s the perception.”



Yes, absolutely yes. Vermont is saying, loud and clear, don't come to Vermont. How many people can satisfy the quarantine requirements? Who is going to take two weeks off from work just to ski one weekend? Or one week? And then maybe need to quarantine again when returning to their home state?

Even people working from home are going to have a hard time not leaving home at all (for any reason) for the required time frame. Second home owners and those that can take their work with them and work from VT are good to go. The rest of us have effectively been told to stay home. Vermont needs to own that. Stop being coy with a policy that either can't be followed or people with just lie about observing.

It isn't like this is a new policy. Most metro and suburban areas have been on the VT quarantine policy for quite a while. The only difference is it is now effective for all counties and all non-essential traffic, both coming and going.


----------



## Harvey

River, I agree. My comment on this piece:



> I'm a big VT Digger fan. But something about the article (or maybe the lodging association's position) is odd. The state has laid out the rules and they are pretty restrictive. (< Not editorializing on that). People are understanding them correctly IMO. The only nuance may be that people didn't understand them before and because of the way "the map" has looked recently this is not a big change.
> 
> I get where lodging is coming from. The rules as laid out will put a big hurt on them, financially.


----------



## Brownski

when your only tool is a- aw fuck it- I give up


----------



## jasonwx

Making this season happen is like banging a square peg into a round hole..unless there is some miracle , it's probably better for the industry to shut down..Probably save money doing that too.. At least in the North East..
There is no virus out west


----------



## riverc0il

jasonwx said:


> Making this season happen is like banging a square peg into a round hole..unless there is some miracle , it's probably better for the industry to shut down..Probably save money doing that too.. At least in the North East..
> There is no virus out west


Was that last comment about the west tongue in cheek? Things are pretty bad everywhere. Utah's governor (R) even ordered a mask mandate due to their +20% testing positivity rate.

I think it would be a good idea to have all ski areas delay opening until MLK day. Get past the holiday's and then hopefully the spike is over, once many conspiracy theorists realize that this thing is really happening. 

By then, more state's will come to their senses and limit operations of the worst indoor spreading locations like bars, restaurants, etc. and require masks inside any business. Take a minor hit up front in hopes of a strong finish and going the distance in the end (when the natural snow is at its best).

Early season low crowd powder days in December are among my favorite. But otherwise, I can live without skiing a crowded WROD and wait until base depths build, no problem. I am far more concerned with missing mid-January through March.


----------



## jasonwx

Riv yes it was...
I totally agree with your idea about the delayed opening..


----------



## trackbiker

riverc0il said:


> Was that last comment about the west tongue in cheek? Things are pretty bad everywhere. Utah's governor (R) even ordered a mask mandate due to their +20% testing positivity rate.
> 
> I think it would be a good idea to have all ski areas delay opening until MLK day. Get past the holiday's and then hopefully the spike is over, once many conspiracy theorists realize that this thing is really happening.
> 
> By then, more state's will come to their senses and limit operations of the worst indoor spreading locations like bars, restaurants, etc. and require masks inside any business. Take a minor hit up front in hopes of a strong finish and going the distance in the end (when the natural snow is at its best).
> 
> Early season low crowd powder days in December are among my favorite. But otherwise, I can live without skiing a crowded WROD and wait until base depths build, no problem. I am far more concerned with missing mid-January through March.


I hate to be Debbie Downer.....but I agree. With the virus now spreading exponentially and even Utah's governor issuing a mask mandate, I don't see many ski areas opening any time soon.


----------



## XTski

trackbiker said:


> I hate to be Debbie Downer.....but I agree. With the virus now spreading exponentially and even Utah's governor issuing a mask mandate, I don't see many ski areas opening any time soon.


I was beginning to have doubts about the season being able to start but hearing the Salimano on the podcast got me stoked again and seeing the Beast blowing snow hopefully it won’t be long to make some top to bottom turns that will be priceless


----------



## MarzNC

riverc0il said:


> I think it would be a good idea to have all ski areas delay opening until MLK day. Get past the holiday's and then hopefully the spike is over, once many conspiracy theorists realize that this thing is really happening.
> 
> By then, more state's will come to their senses and limit operations of the worst indoor spreading locations like bars, restaurants, etc. and require masks inside any business. Take a minor hit up front in hopes of a strong finish and going the distance in the end (when the natural snow is at its best).


Another way to think about opening by mid-December is to give ski resorts a chance to test out their winter operations plans. For some, there may not be any issues. For others, they may well have to make adjustments. If they wait until mid-Jan there won't be time to adjust before the season is essentially over.

Wolf Creek is having a better time than ABasin right now. Being farther away from Denver is proving to be useful to WCSA. ABasin probably opened with too little terrain given they don't have a reservation system in place for lift access or parking.

Much will be learned in the next couple weeks in Colorado and on the west coast as a few ski resorts open. There are a fair number of ski resorts in the Mountain West scheduled to open by the first week of Dec. The approaches to limiting the number of people and making completely different use of indoor spaces and parking lots (cars as lockers) are radically different from what most people out there are used to doing.

For Colorado, enough people ski/board or at least understand the importance of the industry or the sport to their friends that the pressure to do better now in order to have a ski season may well be helpful.

Wyoming is also seriously considering a mask mandate. Apparently a WY State House representative died of COVID-19 a day before he was re-elected (unopposed). He opposed public restrictions. He got COVID-19 some time in October but wasn't tested at first. Only tested after he had to be hospitalized. The reason wasn't released until after his death.


----------



## Benny Profane

XTski said:


> I was beginning to have doubts about the season being able to start but hearing the Salimano on the podcast got me stoked again and seeing the Beast blowing snow hopefully it won’t be long to make some top to bottom turns that will be priceless


Ah, well, he's somebody who has spent millions over the last few years to host a World Cup ski race that, in the end, benefits no Killington skier in the long run. So, I'm not surprised the guns are blowing cold hard cash right now. Let's go bankrupt again!

Here, science:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1132-9

It backs up my argument that people are really dreaming that everything will be cool if we lock down until Jan 1 or something like that, and then we can have a season. Not gonna happen.

“Projections of current non-pharmaceutical intervention strategies by state—with social distancing mandates reinstated when a threshold of 8 deaths per million population is exceeded (reference scenario)—suggest that, cumulatively, 511,373 (469,578–578,347) lives could be lost to COVID-19 across the United States by 28 February 2021. We find that achieving universal mask use (95% mask use in public) could be sufficient to ameliorate the worst effects of epidemic resurgences in many states. Universal mask use could save an additional 129,574 (85,284–170,867) lives from September 22, 2020 through the end of February 2021, or an additional 95,814 (60,731–133,077) lives assuming a lesser adoption of mask wearing (85%), when compared to the reference scenario.”

So, worst case, which, from what I see on the news out there, is our current situation, this winter will witness another quarter million dead. That's our present death total over about eight months essentially doubling in three. Best case, meaning universal mask usage (har har) is not really that much less. Now, with that kind of carnage, do you think that the powers that be could care less about a bunch of people who want to ski?


----------



## XTski

skiing during the World Cup was amazing! they had such a huge crowd watching and we just kept skiing with hardly any lines , the views and sounds we heard from the Gondola can’t be duplicated, it’s a great boost for skiing, the Canadian Air Force flew over, observing that from their level at the peak was unbelievable
top that shit off with the Killington gave out COW BELLs and you were on wide world of sports, they are quite loyal to their skiers


----------



## Harvey

Not exactly skiing related, but yea it kind of is:









Scott Orders Lockdown On Social Gatherings As COVID Cases Spike


Effective Saturday at 10 p.m., Gov. Phil Scott has imposed a moratorium on virtually all social gatherings in Vermont. The move comes after an…




www.vpr.org


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> Not exactly skiing related, but yea it kind of is:


Yep, any state with ski resorts that ends up in lock down in the next month is related to skiing. Going to happen in Mountain West states. The question is for how long.

Colorado stands a much better chance of re-gaining control because they actually have a public health plan by county that makes sense. CO had an actual first wave in the spring. UT, WY, ID, NM thought they were doing fine, when in fact they weren't as far back as July. Looking very nasty in those states. NM has the problem of being next to El Paso, one of the worst hit areas of TX. In the summer NM had to deal with AZ as a neighbor, but managed to keep control through early September.


----------



## MarzNC

Here's a look at the death trends in states with destination ski resorts in the Rockies. Does not look good. Took the snapshots on CovidActNow on Nov. 14. Hospitals in all four states are hurting. ID and WY really don't have that much bed capacity or trained staff to deal with many COVID-19 patients.


----------



## MarzNC

How Loveland started educating people on the differences for this season. The dogs have starring roles almost the entire video.


----------



## NYSkiBlog

How Do You Have a Ski Season in a Pandemic? (Published 2020)


From how we ride the lifts to where we sleep and what we eat, ski areas are taking steps to minimize crowding and to curb opportunities for the virus to spread.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## jasonwx

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/travel/vermont-ski-season-quarantine.html


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Tahoe ski resorts are open — with or without state COVID-19 guidance


Ski resorts say they’re prepared for the pandemic and they’re planning to open as...




www.sfgate.com


----------



## The UNHOLY

NYSkiBlog said:


> Tahoe ski resorts are open — with or without state COVID-19 guidance
> 
> 
> Ski resorts say they’re prepared for the pandemic and they’re planning to open as...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sfgate.com


NYS doesn't want you to have more than 10 people in your house for Thanksgiving but Whiteface potentially opens the day after Thanksgiving ?


----------



## Campgottagopee

The UNHOLY said:


> NYS doesn't want you to have more than 10 people in your house for Thanksgiving but Whiteface potentially opens the day after Thanksgiving ?



No PD is enforcing that stupid law, or at least around here they aren't. They've made it very clear that T-day and the amount of people at your house is clearly up to the family, as it should be.


----------



## idratherbskiing

The UNHOLY said:


> NYS doesn't want you to have more than 10 people in your house for Thanksgiving but Whiteface potentially opens the day after Thanksgiving ?


I think it is more about being inside with a bunch of people. However my personal opinion (and everyone can have their own) I dont think anyone should be telling you who can and cant be in your home.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> No PD is enforcing that stupid law, or at least around here they aren't. They've made it very clear that T-day and the amount of people at your house is clearly up to the family, as it should be.





idratherbskiing said:


> I think it is more about being inside with a bunch of people. However my personal opinion (and everyone can have their own) I dont think anyone should be telling you who can and cant be in your home.


It is the job of the leadership to consult the science and tell you what is necessary to control the pandemic. The pandemic is the ultimate we're-all-in-the-same-boat problem. Ignoring evidence based policies is a not an allowable personal choice, it's public health hazard. I have no problem with sending the cops to enforce public health policies if people don't comply, but it wouldn't be necessary if more people had confidence in the political leadership.

mm


----------



## Tjf1967

Milo Maltbie said:


> It is the job of the leadership to consult the science and tell you what is necessary to control the pandemic. The pandemic is the ultimate we're-all-in-the-same-boat problem. Ignoring evidence based policies is a not an allowable personal choice, it's public health hazard. I have no problem with sending the cops to enforce public health policies if people don't comply, but it wouldn't be necessary if more people had confidence in the political leadership.
> 
> mm


Boy Jim Jones would have loved you. There are the two extremes both groups need to come a little closer together.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Tjf1967 said:


> Boy Jim Jones would have loved you. There are the two extremes both groups need to come a little closer together.


Really? WTF! Supporting science based public health policies during a pandemic is the same as drinking the suicidal koolade? I don't see any way to close that gap.

mm


----------



## Harvey

I see it as guidance. The govt is negligent if they don't give guidance.

Enforcement will never happen. There is no appetite for it. And honestly no upside to doing it.

Be a great meme, cops dragging granny out of the house as she curses them with a turkey leg.


----------



## The UNHOLY

My post was meant as a dichotomy .....NYS telling people not to congregate at their homes for a holiday but potentially congregating at a NYS "money making" facility the day after. Seems odd is all.


----------



## idratherbskiing

Harvey said:


> I see it as guidance. The govt is negligent if they don't give guidance.
> 
> Enforcement will never happen. There is no appetite for it. And honestly no upside to doing it.
> 
> Be a great meme, cops dragging granny out of the house as she curses them with a turkey leg.



I got a good laugh out of this one


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> I see it as guidance. The govt is negligent if they don't give guidance.
> 
> Enforcement will never happen. There is no appetite for it. And honestly no upside to doing it.
> 
> Be a great meme, cops dragging granny out of the house as she curses them with a turkey leg.


If enough people had confidence in the guidance, peer pressure would be enough to enforce it. I agree that actual police enforcement is impossible and counterproductive, but we are in an unusual place when the reality of a virus is a political issue, and not simply a scientific one.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

The UNHOLY said:


> My post was meant as a dichotomy .....NYS telling people not to congregate at their homes for a holiday but potentially congregating at a NYS "money making" facility the day after. Seems odd is all.


I'm not so sure WF will be a money maker this season, but outdoor recreation is important and probably reduces contagion. Outdoor activity should be encouraged. Locking everyone up in their homes, the way some European countris have done, is just stochastic assisted suicide.

mm


----------



## Harvey

The UNHOLY said:


> NYS "money making" facility


Not this year, certainly.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> It is the job of the leadership to consult the science and tell you what is necessary to control the pandemic. The pandemic is the ultimate we're-all-in-the-same-boat problem. Ignoring evidence based policies is a not an allowable personal choice, it's public health hazard. I have no problem with sending the cops to enforce public health policies if people don't comply, but it wouldn't be necessary if more people had confidence in the political leadership.
> 
> mm



What do you say to the family of 13? 

Sorry, but Cuomo has WAY overstepped his authority on this one. You'd really call the cops on that family?? Some neighbor.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I see it as guidance. The govt is negligent if they don't give guidance.
> 
> Enforcement will never happen. There is no appetite for it. And honestly no upside to doing it.
> 
> Be a great meme, cops dragging granny out of the house as she curses them with a turkey leg.


LMAO!


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> What do you say to the family of 13?


Happy Thanksgiving!

Cuomo didn't need a pandemic to overstep his authority, that was just a bonus for him, but you should still follow science based health advice, and apply whatever social sanction you can to those who don't.

mm


----------



## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> Happy Thanksgiving!
> 
> Cuomo didn't need a pandemic to overstep his authority, that was just a bonus for him, but you should still follow science based health advice, and apply whatever social sanction you can to those who don't.
> 
> mm



Agree. I follow all guidelines because I believe they help, but to tell a family how to gather for a holiday is beyond F'd up, imo. That should be left up to the family.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> I follow all guidelines because I believe they help, but to tell a family how to gather for a holiday is beyond F'd up, imo. That should be left up to the family.


It is a leadership reponsibility to tell you what is necessary to control rona, however unpleasant that is. Failing to follow scientifically sound advice is irresponsible and should be subject at least to social sanction, and to police enforcement in only the most egregious cases, as in spring break parties.

mm


----------



## jasonwx

Campgottagopee said:


> Agree. I follow all guidelines because I believe they help, but to tell a family how to gather for a holiday is beyond F'd up, imo. That should be left up to the family.


Of course it’s up to the families and unenforceable. Hopefully it will make people rethink their plans and do the smart thing. 
it’s only one meal. Is it really worth the risk?


----------



## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> Of course it’s up to the families and unenforceable. Hopefully it will make people rethink their plans and do the smart thing.
> it’s only one meal. Is it really worth the risk?



The risk is up to all those involved. I believe most people will be smart about it, I know we are. We aren't getting together as a family this year, my point is that was our choice. I take issue for the government to come out and mandate it though. That's my issue. IMO he has overstepped what his responsibilities are.


----------



## Brownski

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail- including grandma


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> The risk is up to all those involved. I believe most people will be smart about it, I know we are. We aren't getting together as a family this year, my point is that was our choice. I take issue for the government to come out and mandate it though. That's my issue. IMO he has overstepped what his responsibilities are.


No. The risk that private actions will spread the virus is a public health concern, and by all the evidence most people do stupid things all the time. The only thing andrew did wrong was to add some vague and unworkable threats of enforcement, which gave local elected sheriffs the opportunity to criticize him, which has been their favorite thing to do for years now. andrew should have seen that coming. All that just politicizes what should be a scientific issue, and undermines the credibility of leadership. Politicizing and insisting on some "freedom" to spread infection will only prolong the pandemic.
Wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid indoor gatherings, get vaccinated at the first opportunity and life will go back to some sort of normal. Reject to all that and we all live with rona forever. Which path leads to "freedom"? 

mm


----------



## Campgottagopee

Milo Maltbie said:


> No. The risk that private actions will spread the virus is a public health concern, and by all the evidence most people do stupid things all the time. The only thing andrew did wrong was to add some vague and unworkable threats of enforcement, which gave local elected sheriffs the opportunity to criticize him, which has been their favorite thing to do for years now. andrew should have seen that coming. All that just politicizes what should be a scientific issue, and undermines the credibility of leadership. Politicizing and insisting on some "freedom" to spread infection will only prolong the pandemic.
> Wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid indoor gatherings, get vaccinated at the first opportunity and life will go back to some sort of normal. Reject to all that and we all live with rona forever. Which path leads to "freedom"?
> 
> mm



Yes

We disagree

Good talk


----------



## Tjf1967

Milo Maltbie said:


> Really? WTF! Supporting science based public health policies during a pandemic is the same as drinking the suicidal koolade? I don't see any way to close that gap.
> 
> mm


Give me the facts, I as an adult will disseminate them and act accordingly as to how to protect my family. Your lover boy was saying that masks don't help in February when every Asian nation in the world was wearing them. Needless to say my family was wearing masks before your king told you to. You notice he deferred his pay raise.... he should make it clear if things clear up he will be taking it in the future. The slippery shit I can do without. I think your IQ is higher than mine MM, most peoples in here are. However people need to take personal responsibility, being told what you can do really dumbs people down. You know how to stay safe.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Tjf1967 said:


> Give me the facts, I as an adult will disseminate them and act accordingly ...


And that's how we got to a situation where critical mass of people in whole counties and even some states are still calling the whole thing a hoax and refusing to take even small measures to stop the spread, and there are still giant weddings in Rockland county.
andrew undermines his own leadership ability by being heavy handed, but on this issue he is following science. Virus doesn't care about freedom, and ignoring science will only make everythng worse. Talking about "personal resposibility" only encourages the science deniers. I was taught the Spiritual Works of Mercy, one of which is "Instruct the ignorant." That is the correct response to those who think their actions don't affect others, which is a better answer than "it's your right to ignore facts during a public health crisis."

mm


----------



## Tjf1967

Milo Maltbie said:


> And that's how we got to a situation where whole counties and even some states are stil calling the whole thing a hoax, and there are still giant weddings in Rockland county.
> andrew undermines his own leadership ability by being heavy handed, but on this issue is following science. Virus doesn't care about freedom, and ignoring science will only make everythng worse.
> 
> mm


Who is ignoring science? Those people that are; you think telling them what to do is going to do anything but create a shit storm? The virus is here. They were saying we could have 250k in deaths in March. People went crazy so they lowered the projection. We know what this is going to do. You can't expect anyone to keep you safe, that's how you stay safe. I know I could go just about anywhere and come out virus free. Its just how much do I want to prepare to go there and is it worth it to me.


----------



## Brownski

I think most people will do the right thing. Give them the truth and they’re able to make decisions. 10 people is an arbitrary number. If we’re talking grandma & grandpa + their 3 daughters who live locally and see them twice a week + spouses and an average of 3 kids each, you’re way over the number but can you really tell me that they’re being reckless? Conversely an elderly couple with 4 single 20 something year old kids who all live in different cities and have been careless about going to bars and traveling should probably not converge without getting tested and dialing things back for a week or two beforehand.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> I think most people will do the right thing. Give them the truth and they’re able to make decisions. 10 people is an arbitrary number. If we’re talking grandma & grandpa + their 3 daughters who live locally and see them twice a week + spouses and an average of 3 kids each, you’re way over the number but can you really tell me that they’re being reckless? Conversely an elderly couple with 4 single 20 something year old kids who all live in different cities and have been careless about going to bars and traveling should probably not converge without getting tested and dialing things back for a week or two beforehand.



Geezum, don't bring common sense into this


----------



## marcski

The issue really is that it takes a village. Unfortunately, with Covid, you can do everything "right", yet still get it. I mean you can get it on a quick run to the market while wearing a mask.


----------



## Campgottagopee

marcski said:


> The issue really is that it takes a village. Unfortunately, with Covid, you can do everything "right", yet still get it. I mean you can get it on a quick run to the market while wearing a mask.



Get it and not know it. Scary shit.


----------



## Tjf1967

marcski said:


> The issue really is that it takes a village. Unfortunately, with Covid, you can do everything "right", yet still get it. I mean you can get it on a quick run to the market while wearing a mask.


True. But what's doing everything right?


----------



## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> Geezum, don't bring common sense into this


Yeah, not to mention that everyone is going to have their own idea about what is “right”, based on the information available to them.

Given that I’m sure some will feel strongly about their opinion of “right”.....am I the only one who sees this thread either getting very quiet or very ugly once the snow flies and the opportunity for turns presents itself?

My bet is on quiet, for the most part. As has been said in a number of threads and other sites, don’t talk about what you do (no discussion of trips, pics of turns) over social media. Of course someone will share something at some point, and someone with a strong opinion that doing any skiing/travel is not the “right” thing to do will tell them that they are the problem and are creating the public health hazard.....so there is bound to be an ugly exchange or three.


----------



## Brownski

I’m planning to ski as many new NY hills as I can and writing it up for the blog. I can try to get Harv to publish it with no pics if you guys think that will help


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> I’m planning to ski as many new NY hills as I can and writing it up for the blog. I can try to get Harv to publish it with no pics if you guys think that will help



Pics make it

If peeps have a hard time with it, hit em with your hammer


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tjf1967 said:


> True. But what's doing everything right?



I'd say that = doing what is asked of us. Wearing masks when you can't practice social distancing, regularly wash your hands, keep your circle small, and if you feel sick stay home. I think the last one is the hardest one. The guy I had contact with thought he was catching a cold, not uncommon to feel that way this time of year, right? I don't fault him, as I would think cold too, but it wasn't.


----------



## marcski

Campgottagopee said:


> I'd say that = doing what is asked of us. Wearing masks when you can't practice social distancing, regularly wash your hands, keep your circle small, and if you feel sick stay home. I think the last one is the hardest one. The guy I had contact with thought he was catching a cold, not uncommon to feel that way this time of year, right? I don't fault him, as I would think cold too, but it wasn't.


Agreed. I'd add wearing a mask whenever indoors in a public space, regardless of how far away one might be from another and not eating while indoors in public places.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> I'd say that = doing what is asked of us. Wearing masks when you can't practice social distancing, regularly wash your hands, keep your circle small, and if you feel sick stay home. I think the last one is the hardest one. The guy I had contact with thought he was catching a cold, not uncommon to feel that way this time of year, right? I don't fault him, as I would think cold too, but it wasn't.


If the right thing is just doing what is asked, what are we arguing about. I also agree that the governor is obnoxious, and that over stepping authority just generates more resistance when cooperation is needed. I haven't seen my grandchildren is 8 months, and I'm just tired of people who think they have some "freedom" to ignore public health guidance.

What's really going on is a crisis of leadership, but you have a pandemic with the leadership you have, not the leadership you want.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Tjf1967 said:


> Who is ignoring science?


POTUS, anyone who attends a large indoor gathering, the acting secretary of defense, the governor of California...

mm


----------



## Harvey

I've been thinking about how I can get up to NY to ski. I know that quarantine rules (at this moment) don't seem to apply between contiguous states, but that could change at any minute.

If (I can sell this at home and) I do quarantine from Dec 15 - Jan 1 and head to the mountains then, maybe I could swing it. It would mean no December skiing which obviously bites.

The logic(?) of that idea makes me wonder if a lot of people would try this and create demand beyond capacity.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I think everyone who is gonna move to the mountains did that last March. The limit at Gore will be parking, because the Albanians will be driving up alone. I'm thinking Gore will be quiet, and hoping there's enough business to justify running all the lifts and snowmaking.

mm


----------



## Capdistski

Am I right that the Vermont rules require you to stay in VT at least 14 days after quarantining and entering? I would consider quarantining at home in NYS for 7 days/testing and then doing 2-3 days skiing in VT, but if I have to stay 14 days that doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t seem I would have to quarantine again coming back into NYS from a contiguous state.

it will probably all have to tighten up by JAN anyway, but I’m just considering my options. Otherwise if I want to hit the road I will tour NYS and hit McCauley and Titus which I have always wanted to do. Maybe Greek or Snow Ridge too.


----------



## GoodTimes

I cant see myself downhill skiing this year. Maybe on a week day here or there with my own chairlift compliant group at lesser known locations.

Not sure if there will be more or less people at the mountains. 

Maybe later in the season if people are getting vaccinated I will feel differently. Hope for a great lat season!


----------



## Harvey

Capdistski said:


> Am I right that the Vermont rules require you to stay in VT at least 14 days after quarantining and entering? I would consider quarantining at home in NYS for 7 days/testing and then doing 2-3 days skiing in VT, but if I have to stay 14 days that doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t seem I would have to quarantine again coming back into NYS from a contiguous state.
> 
> it will probably all have to tighten up by JAN anyway, but I’m just considering my options. Otherwise if I want to hit the road I will tour NYS and hit McCauley and Titus which I have always wanted to do. Maybe Greek or Snow Ridge too.



I'm thinking yes to all of the above, if the rules don't change in VT and NY.

One thing I wonder is, will Vermont, especially SoVT stay open. If you get some kind of washout, will the guns come back out? Maybe a place like Mad will roll on with lots of natural, and little reliance or expectation of snowmaking. Eric Freidman's dream come true — day ticket crowds on a weekday — after his departure. Not really but you know what I mean.

I don't agree with Milo's "Gore will be quiet." If ORDA stays open I think they will be to capacity, whatever that is.

The one variable I don't think any of us know... how does the reduced capacity compare to the demand in NY. How many are definitely going ski and how many will opt out.

For those of us who are still in it. Having some kind of camper like MC will be key assuming it doesn't all come to a stop. I'm not sure I could actually sleep in my car, so I'm going to be putting on a lot of mileage if I can swing the days off. I've been working on a revamp of directory to make it a little easier to make decisions. Nothing will make the driving easier for me because I don't see carpooling as an option. Lucky y'all with wives and girlfriends who are as motivated as you are.

Plattekill pass is looking like a very good investment to me.


----------



## Benny Profane

A small camper would be nice just to use as your mini lodge in the parking lot, booting up and taking breaks. Sleep in a real bed.

I always thought that an awd minivan would be the best ski vehicle just for that reason, but masculinity issues prevent most from going down that road.


----------



## Capdistski

Other factor hill for me is West - so hoping they get some cold temps. They deserve a break after everything they have invested - I think they will be very busy if they get the temps. I wish either they or McCauley were on Indy Pass. But I guess that’s why they’re not...


----------



## tirolski

Mikaela came in 2nd in Levi Finland slalom. Lots of masks on.
Skiers were also loading at Copper Mtn. according to the Superbee webcam today but their web page says no lifts running. Wonder who gets to go up? Is it our ski team?



https://www.coppercolorado.com/the-mountain/webcams/mountain/super-bee-hd-cam


----------



## Milo Maltbie

tirolski said:


> Mikaela came in 2nd in Levi Finland slalom. Lots of masks on.
> Skiers were also loading at Copper Mtn. according to the Superbee webcam today but their web page says no lifts running. Wonder who gets to go up? Is it our ski team?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.coppercolorado.com/the-mountain/webcams/mountain/super-bee-hd-cam



In a normal year there would be race programs from all over the world training at Copper this time of year. That probably who is skiing now. 

mm


----------



## NYSkiBlog

The Small Bright Spots of This Year's Ski Season


Resort executives are warning customers that skiing will be different this season. I'm here to tell you that "different" means better.




www.outsideonline.com


----------



## Peter Minde

NYSkiBlog said:


> The Small Bright Spots of This Year's Ski Season
> 
> 
> Resort executives are warning customers that skiing will be different this season. I'm here to tell you that "different" means better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.outsideonline.com


This article makes me think I should take a cue from @Brownski. Kit out a pickup truck with a cap and a platform. Dad's old 2 burner Coleman stove stashed underneath.


----------



## riverc0il

Capdistski said:


> Am I right that the Vermont rules require you to stay in VT at least 14 days after quarantining and entering? I would consider quarantining at home in NYS for 7 days/testing and then doing 2-3 days skiing in VT, but if I have to stay 14 days that doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t seem I would have to quarantine again coming back into NYS from a contiguous state.


You can either quarantine in VT when you arrive or at your home residence for the 14 days (you do not need to quarantine in VT, unless something has changed). Either way, you cannot leave your location during the quarantine, not even to go to the store. You can also do a 7 day quarantine with a negative test at the end. But that is essentially pointless at this point because tests now take a week, so you have to do 14 days either way.

Going back home, that depends on your home state. Not sure about NYS. But if your home state also has a 14 day quarantine on returning residents, you would need to quarantine for 14 days to get to VT and then quarantine for 14 days when you get back home.

Which is pointless. The spread isn't happening from interstate travel. It is happening a the local/community level from people visiting each other's houses, going to restaurants, attending weddings, etc. What people do and where they do it are more important than where people are from.


----------



## Brownski

Peter Minde said:


> This article makes me think I should take a cue from @Brownski. Kit out a pickup truck with a cap and a platform. Dad's old 2 burner Coleman stove stashed underneath.


Was just thinking about this. I’m going to have to adapt my platform to my Pilot, now that the truck I built it for has been recycled.


----------



## Peter Minde

Brownski said:


> Was just thinking about this. I’m going to have to adapt my platform to my Pilot, now that the truck I built it for has been recycled.


I can sleep in the back of my Jetta Sportwagen, but when you get skis, wax boxes, food etc in there, it gets cramped.


----------



## MarzNC

riverc0il said:


> Going back home, that depends on your home state. Not sure about NYS. But if your home state also has a 14 day quarantine on returning residents, you would need to quarantine for 14 days to get to VT and then quarantine for 14 days when you get back home.


Some states, like NY, are moving to travel restrictions based on testing. Meaning the self-quarantine period can be shorter by timing a COVID-19 test and testing negative. For NY, need two tests 3-5 days apart. That's the best way to avoid a False Negative because some who just got infected doesn't have quite enough SARS-CoV-2 in their system to be detected even by a good PCR test.

VT is putting up permanent signs on their border-cross highways about the travel restrictions. Say "COVID-19. QUARANTINE REQUIREMENTS. IN PLACE. HEALTHVERMONT.GOV" Meaning metal signs with COVID-19 on a red background and black lettering on white for the other text.

There are no signs of any kind related to travel restrictions when driving into NY or PA on I-81. Just got back to NC after helping a friend pick up her daughter from North Country School in Lake Placid. We followed the rules, filled out a NY Travel Form online, were in NY for less than 24 hours, and just drove thru PA in both directions.

No way am I driving north of VA to ski this season.


----------



## MarzNC

riverc0il said:


> Which is pointless. The spread isn't happening from interstate travel. It is happening a the local/community level from people visiting each other's houses, going to restaurants, attending weddings, etc. What people do and where they do it are more important than where people are from.


Agree!

NM has travel restrictions and they are pointless. The people in neighboring states who follow them probably would never have infected anyone because they are careful enough to keep from getting COVID-19 in the first place. The people from Texas who didn't know and/or didn't care were driving back and forth across the board between NM and TX all the time. A friend who plays golf a lot saw plenty of TX plates and know people who were driving across the border for day trips, as they have done in the past. She's been paying plenty of attention because her husband is a research physician. He's been pressed into clinical work for COVID-19 patients. They've decided to cancel their Taos season passes because he can't go skiing with the required quarantine periods when he gets a break from being at the hospital. No kids or other family locally so they are just hunkering down with the dogs. They have a big enough house that they can their distance from each other as needed.

While the southeastern states south of Washington DC aren't doing the greatest, COVID-19 has never been out of control statewide as it has been in other regions. What has been done at the state, country, and/or city level since March was enough to "flatten the curve" and avoid the risk of overwhelming the healthcare system for weeks and weeks. No talk of travel restrictions and I hope it stays that way.


----------



## Brownski

Does anybody know the current rules pertaining to Pennsylvania? NYers allowed in/out? Vice versa?


----------



## marcski

Peter Minde said:


> I can sleep in the back of my Jetta Sportwagen, but when you get skis, wax boxes, food etc in there, it gets cramped.


I lied down in mine the other day. Seems fine esp with a small air pad. And, I was also thinking a roof pod would make it even more comfy by getting the skis etc up top.


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## MarzNC

Brownski said:


> Does anybody know the current rules pertaining to Pennsylvania? NYers allowed in/out? Vice versa?


No exemption for NY folks as far as I can tell when it comes to PA travel restrictions. Folks who live in DC and usually ski in PA are not happy.









						Travelers
					






					www.health.pa.gov


----------



## Brownski

Thanks. That sucks, not that PA skiing is all that great anyway


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## XTski

The people who aren’t happy are the ones who bought multi passes that has them going to other states to ski, they were not smart buying that type of pass during a pandemic same with those talking about flying to ski, at least that keeps the knuckleheads off the slopes


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## gorgonzola

MarzNC said:


> No exemption for NY folks as far as I can tell when it comes to PA travel restrictions. Folks who live in DC and usually ski in PA are not happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Travelers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.health.pa.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6815
> View attachment 6816


Yea I was disappointed when I heard the guidance was not similar to NY regarding contiguous states, I am in NEPA and typically back and forth to NJ and NY fairly often... but I can drive 250 miles to Pittsburgh!


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## Brownski

I was hoping the same thing Gorgo. The states are contiguous after all. I wouldn’t spend tons of time at it but Shawnee would be good for a couple days with the boys, since it’s on the Indy Pass. There are a few further west I’ve never been to that look kind of interesting too.


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## Tjf1967

So is it the mountains that you are worried about blowing you in or the rules themselves? Seems to me you could head over and head back in the same day as safely as visiting your mother in a nursing home.


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## gorgonzola

Can I consider skiing medical treatment? It is imperative to my physical and mental well being!
I have two dilemma's, skiing NY ski hills / BCxCD trails and helping my daughter work on a house she just closed on in joisey. Both would have minimal contact and risk with anyone as tj mentions above.
I guess every trip will be an ethical question...


----------



## Brownski

I’m not really worried about anything. I guess it doesn’t matter either way. You’re right that when push comes to shove I’ll probably just use my best judgement anyway.


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## x10003q

XTski said:


> The people who aren’t happy are the ones who bought multi passes that has them going to other states to ski, they were not smart buying that type of pass during a pandemic same with those talking about flying to ski, at least that keeps the knuckleheads off the slopes


Ikon and epic passes can be pushed off to the 2021-2022 ski season.


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## Brownski

gorgonzola said:


> Can I consider skiing medical treatment? It is imperative to my physical and mental well being!


Funny. I suggested this subject as a blog post recently- more as a counter argument to those dismissing skiing as a rich people problem then as a loophole in the travel rules though. Without it I will need to start seeing a therapist for sure.


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## gorgonzola

I was hoping the bike would help me through but I'm already sick of riding in the fncking dark and it's not even cold out yet...


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## XTski

Killington is doing a great job of running things keeping lifts loading with ease no lines Monday a little today, they are pumping out copious amounts of snow! and will expand terrain quickly, they get a trail covered good and move on, looking forward to ropes dropping and hitting a freshly opened trail with their “white gold”
yesturday the conditions were like sugar corn powder , today it’s more like mid winter conditions sweet machine made gold, jerry gold!


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## raisingarizona

I was gonna go ski today but hiking sounded so much easier. With one run opened that is basically a green circle I’m struggling to find motivation. Maybe we’ll get up this week sometime. The reservations thing is going to force us to be there early on days we want to ski, I’m not really into that unless there’s powder skiing. It’s a good year for mountain biking in the desert.


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## Brownski

Way to go. Looks great


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## XTski

Thanks, it was 8 degrees at the top and pretty dry , should be sweet in the am


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## Harvey

Exposed to Covid-19? How long you need to quarantine may soon change.


A shorter quarantine period is likely to include increased testing.




www.nbcnews.com


----------



## rfreeman

Brownski said:


> Does anybody know the current rules pertaining to Pennsylvania? NYers allowed in/out? Vice versa?


Against the rules unless you had a Covid test within 3 days. But I live right near the NJ/PA border and know people who have made the trip. They are not checking cars at the bridges.


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## JTG

Brownski, you can go ski in PA...but you need to have a negative test within 72 hours of entering PA, as per current PA guidelines that went into effect Nov. 20. Make it a day trip and there are few hoops you are supposed to jump thru on the NY side.

On the NY side, the quarantine and testing requirements instituted by NY in October were further clarified in a memo dated November 3rd.

PA is a contiguous state and travelers from PA (along with NJ, CT, MA, and VT) are not subject to the requirements. A NY resident leaving NY is subject to certain requirements, depending upon how long they were outside of NY.

To be clear, regardless of who you are or where you are from, you can travel anywhere you want....but you will have to fill out the traveler form and will be subject to a 14 day quarantine upon entering NY.....unless (meaning you can avoid the 14 quarantine requirement if) you fit certain categories....

1) You are a NY resident and you leave NY for less than 24 hours. No need for negative test to return, no required quarantine upon return. You do, however, have to fill out the traveler form upon re-entry and obtain a diagnostic test on the 4th day after arriving home. At least that’s what the current requirements say you should do.

2) You are a NY resident and you leave NY for more than 24 hours, or you are traveling to NY from a non-contiguous state. Fill out the traveler form. To avoid the 14 day quarantine...get a negative test result within 3 days of arrival, quarantine for 3 days after arrival, get a negative test result the 4th day. Do that and you are free and clear. Don’t and quarantine for 14 days.

The PA requirements are worse in some ways, but better in others. Generally a 14 day quarantine requirement upon entering PA unless you get a negative test within 72 hours of arrival. Worse in that there is no contiguous state exception from PA testing or quarantine requirements. Slightly better in that if you get a negative test within 72 hours of arriving in/returning to PA there are no further requirements, unlike NY. Failure to comply with the PA guidelines only threatens a fine of between $25 and $300. NY threatens much greater fines, potentially on a daily basis.


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## MarzNC

Tjf1967 said:


> So is it the mountains that you are worried about blowing you in or the rules themselves? Seems to me you could head over and head back in the same day as safely as visiting your mother in a nursing home.


In theory, if following the rules for NY can spend 24-hours in the state but not supposed to do anything. Just drove up to Lake Placid (from NC) to help my friend pick up her daughter from boarding school. We went shopping at Oscar's and the LL Bean Outlet in Queensbury on the way south. They are following all safety rules and everyone was masked properly. We stayed overnight in Albany at a motel. Did have the NY Travel Form filled out, which is mainly for potential contact tracing. The motel desk had the rules posted. All my friend was asked was whether or not she knew the rules existed. She wasn't asked about the reason for her trip or if she had filled out the NY Travel Form. We were in NY for just under 24 hours since I drove from NC to Albany on Fri and from Lake Placid to VA on Sat after the pick up.

As for PA, allowed to drive thru and make "essential" stops for gas and a restroom if not pre-testing and so on. Normally I would've stayed overnight in Carlisle or Chambersburg on the say south from Lake Placid.

There were no signs entering NY or PA about travel restrictions. Unlike VT.

MA and RI had similar issues with differing travel restrictions since there are a lot of people who live in RI and work in the Boston area. I assume that's why PA has an exemption for that type of situation.

Staying safe while driving is not that hard. No different that being careful about what stores to shop at locally.


----------



## MarzNC

x10003q said:


> Ikon and epic passes can be pushed off to the 2021-2022 ski season.


Ikon has a deferral option as long as it's not used. Don't have to decide until mid-April.

Not the same for Epic. If want a refund, need to decide before Dec. 8.


----------



## Tjf1967

JTG said:


> Brownski, you can go ski in PA...but you need to have a negative test within 72 hours of entering PA, as per current PA guidelines that went into effect Nov. 20. Make it a day trip and there are few hoops you are supposed to jump thru on the NY side.
> 
> There seems to be a fair amount of confusion regarding the current NY travel restrictions. The quarantine and testing requirements instituted by NY in October were further clarified in a memo dated November 3rd.
> 
> PA is a contiguous state and travelers from PA (along with NJ, CT, MA, and VT) are not subject to the requirements. A NY resident leaving NY is subject to certain requirements, depending upon how long they were outside of NY.
> 
> To be clear, regardless of who you are or where you are from, you can travel anywhere you want....but you will have to fill out the traveler form and will be subject to a 14 day quarantine upon entering NY.....unless (meaning you can avoid the 14 quarantine requirement if) you fit certain categories....
> 
> 1) You are a NY resident and you leave NY for less than 24 hours. No need for negative test to return, no required quarantine upon return. You do, however, have to fill out the traveler form upon re-entry and obtain a diagnostic test on the 4th day after arriving home. At least that’s what the current requirements say you should do.
> 
> 2) You are a NY resident and you leave NY for more than 24 hours, or you are traveling to NY from a non-contiguous state. Fill out the traveler form. To avoid the 14 day quarantine...get a negative test result within 3 days of arrival, quarantine for 3 days after arrival, get a negative test result the 4th day. Do that and you are free and clear. Don’t and quarantine for 14 days.


I could not find the PA contiguous state exemption.


----------



## Tjf1967

It may be to late for this pandemic but if flow code was utilized this could really help the masses stay much safer.


----------



## JTG

Tjf1967 said:


> I could not find the PA contiguous state exemption.


No contiguous states exemption for people entering PA. The NY Dept of Heath guidance memo issued Nov 3 defines contiguous states (including PA) and exempts them from the NY requirements.


----------



## JTG

MarzNC said:


> In theory, if following the rules for NY can spend 24-hours in the state but not supposed to do anything.


Not that I care.....but technically you were in violation of the NY “requirements”. The 24 hour thing only applies to NY residents leaving the state for less than 24 hours. Even those people are supposed to do a couple things (fill out form, get test on fourth day after arrival). That said, as a traveler to NY from a non-contiguous state (NC), who I’m assuming was residing outside of NY for more than 24 prior to your trip, you should have quarantined during your visit. Technically, according to the requirements. There’s no exception (24 hour or contiguous state) that would’ve applied to a NC resident traveling to NY. Again, just observing what the rules say. I don’t really care that you may have violated said rules. It’s all a mess. If the right combo of snow and timing present themselves I’ll travel, and I’ll probably follow the rules as stated, for the most part.


----------



## MarzNC

JTG said:


> That said, as a traveler to NY from a non-contiguous state (NC),


Have you ever come across an exemption for NY related to families who need to pick up a college student? I know that existed for MA but didn't bother to look that hard for NY. There were already NY travel restrictions when my friend and her husband drove to LP to drop off their daughter. No one said then that they were violating rules. The school is being very careful, is quite small, has day students and boarders, and is in close touch with local public health authorities.

Pretty sure you are allowed to drive across NY in less than a day or in/out without staying overnight. The latter is what I did to pick up the new car earlier in Nov.

It's definitely confusing when travel restrictions for a state aren't clearly stated for residents returning from another state vs non-residents.

The state that I care about what it comes to travel restrictions is New Mexico. Not going to drive there for a planned trip to Taos in early Feb. If the current restrictions that require a 14-day self-quarantine with no pre-trip testing option stay in place, then that trip won't happen. I am part of a group of friends that currently includes seven people flying to Albuquerque from different states on the east coast. We have until mid-Jan to make a decision in order not to lose any deposit money for slopeside lodging. Made the plans during the summer, but cancelling has always been an possibility depending on the pandemic situation.


----------



## JTG

Just to clarify, I don’t care, I’m not judging you or anyone. Interesting to talk through the requirements and implications though.

Nothing specific in NY to address college students. There are exemptions for first responders and essential workers. NY doesn’t address travelers passing through the state on the way to elsewhere. Of course no business is going to tell any person traveling related to that business that they are violating anything. Don’t ask, don’t tell and honor system are fully in play.


----------



## Tjf1967

H


JTG said:


> No contiguous states exemption for people entering PA. The NY Dept of Heath guidance memo issued Nov 3 defines contiguous states (including PA) and exempts them from the NY requirements.


Gorgo was coming from PA. That's his home rules. I thought were talking his situation no?


----------



## JTG

Tjf1967 said:


> Gorgo was coming from PA. That's his home rules. I thought were talking his situation no?


I was speaking more to Bownski’s NY to PA and back implications. Sorry.


----------



## Tjf1967

JTG said:


> Not that I care.....but technically you were in violation of the NY “requirements”. The 24 hour thing only applies to NY residents leaving the state for less than 24 hours. Even those people are supposed to do a couple things (fill out form, get test on fourth day after arrival). That said, as a traveler to NY from a non-contiguous state (NC), who I’m assuming was residing outside of NY for more than 24 prior to your trip, you should have quarantined during your visit. Technically, according to the requirements. There’s no exception (24 hour or contiguous state) that would’ve applied to a NC resident traveling to NY. Again, just observing what the rules say. I don’t really care that you may have violated said rules. It’s all a mess. If the right combo of snow and timing present themselves I’ll travel, and I’ll probably follow the rules as stated, for the most part.


Me neither but for someone so up on the virus mark does a lot of low risk traveling. I heard a couple different spots she could have spread it or caught it.


----------



## Brownski

ditto on all points. I’m not promising anybody I won’t sneak into VT at some point either.


----------



## raisingarizona

edited, I don’t want to ruffle any feathers .

disregard


----------



## MarzNC

JTG said:


> Just to clarify, I don’t care, I’m not judging you or anyone. Interesting to talk through the requirements and implications though.
> 
> Nothing specific in NY to address college students. There are exemptions for first responders and essential workers. NY doesn’t address travelers passing through the state on the way to elsewhere. Of course no business is going to tell any person traveling related to that business that they are violating anything. Don’t ask, don’t tell and honor system are fully in play.


I understand. Didn't take your comment as a rebuke. I've been making pretty deliberate decisions related to travel for my family since early March. We haven't stayed home and we haven't gotten sick. We go places where mask usage is the standard within 5 miles of our house and follow the same approach elsewhere. Spent a couple of months close to home from mid-March to mid-June learning as much as possible. The balancing game is just more complicated when there is a reason to go to a state with travel restrictions.

Glad to have someone willing to read the fine print for NY to see what it says, and what it doesn't say. I've been reading stuff for several states so it's hard to remember details and I don't really have the patience to go back and find the source document. Definitely are times when a news report about travel restrictions is not up to date.


----------



## MarzNC

Here's an update for those interested in what's going on with skiing in Colorado. Colorado has a county-level approach. Recently added a color. Purple is when ski resorts might have to shut down. Several counties moved into Red in the last week or so, including Summit County. Eagle County is Orange where Vail and Beaver Creek are opening this week.









						Masks up! Colorado ski resorts are moving ahead as state, counties and businesses restrict access
					

VAIL — The lift operator in the maze at Vail Village’s Gondola One tilts his head back and hollers: “Masks up please!”  There are no unmasked skiers in the line, but maybe some masks have slipped below noses. It’s the second day of operations at Vail ski area — a busy Saturday — and skiers […]




					coloradosun.com
				




Have a couple friends with plans to ski at Steamboat and Winter Park in mid-December. A friend who lives in Denver can't decide whether to go skiing or not. Has a season pass to ABasin. Usually would start the season much earlier and is between jobs so could go midweek.


----------



## Brownski

raisingarizona said:


> edited, I don’t want to ruffle any feathers .
> 
> disregard


Umm, could you PM the original comment? Hate to miss any snark


----------



## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> Umm, could you PM the original comment? Hate to miss any snark


Haha!

I said something along the lines that a lot of the states rules and regulations feel more suggestive and not really anything that can be enforced. Then I said I’m thinking about doing some low key trips to ski back country lines.

then I was like, shoot, that might piss people off ?‍♂️


----------



## JTG

raisingarizona said:


> Haha!
> 
> I said something along the lines that a lot of the states rules and regulations feel more suggestive and not really anything that can be enforced. Then I said I’m thinking about doing some low key trips to ski back country lines.
> 
> then I was like, shoot, that might piss people off ?‍♂️


I hear you, I’m in the same boat.

Some states threaten to have more teeth than others when it comes to travel “restrictions”. Very little is actually enforceable. Fortunately the places I’m thinking of going have suggestions on what travelers should do, but nothing as detailed/strict as NY.


----------



## jasonwx

The more I read this thread the more i realize how fucked we are as Americans. It all about me me me . This state or that one doesn't have travel restrictions so I'll go there etc.. There is hardly any disease in Asia , because people actually listen and care about their fellow man. 
Is it so hard to sit an chill for a year? save a boat load of money if you are still employed and come out swing next year..Maybe even go heli skiing or the Alps with your saved up scratch...

Happy Turkey day!!


----------



## rfreeman

jasonwx said:


> The more I read this thread the more i realize how fucked we are as Americans. It all about me me me . This state or that one doesn't have travel restrictions so I'll go there etc.. There is hardly any disease in Asia , because people actually listen and care about their fellow man.
> Is it so hard to sit an chill for a year? save a boat load of money if you are still employed and come out swing next year..Maybe even go heli skiing or the Alps with your saved up scratch...
> 
> Happy Turkey day!!


IMO adhering to the spirit of taking safe precautions takes precedence over adhering to the letter of unenforceable laws. 

Day tripping in ones own car with a brown bag lunch to ski in a mask, gloves and goggles while riding lifts only with ones family members - whether or not one crosses state lines to do so -has to be one of the least risky out of home activities imaginable. Way less risk than outdoor dining, a trip to a grocery store, or taking an unmasked walk around your block or in a local park.


----------



## Warp daddy

jasonwx said:


> The more I read this thread the more i realize how fucked we are as Americans. It all about me me me . This state or that one doesn't have travel restrictions so I'll go there etc.. There is hardly any disease in Asia , because people actually listen and care about their fellow man.
> Is it so hard to sit an chill for a year? save a boat load of money if you are still employed and come out swing next year..Maybe even go heli skiing or the Alps with your saved up scratch...
> 
> Happy Turkey day!!


No Jason actually you ARE right on target ! America was based on the norm of rugged individualism with the individual taking prcedence over the group Whereas in many OTHER cultures the reverse is true . The Group takes prcedence over the individual .

So the IRony here is while initially That unique American notion spurred progress BUT ANY STRENGTH used to EXCESS , becomes a WEAKNESS .

So we are seeing that now with many not being capable of self discipline and who are putting their emotional neediness in precedent of group responsibility and emotional intelligence 

A Zoom Thanksgiving is preferrable to an ICU Christmas


----------



## marcski

JTG said:


> NY doesn’t address travelers passing through the state on the way to elsewhere.


I don't think they can. The federal government controls interstate travel. In fact, I think that is (part of) the reason these state restrictions are kind of unenforceable without federal legislation. 

And, for the record, my ski season had started yesterday, the day before Turkey day, at K-mart for many many years, but alas, there is Covid and I went mountain biking with my best friend who is always ready to do what I want to do, my dog. ?⛷️?‍♂️. (But even he likes to trample in the snow more than the dry woods!).


----------



## Brownski

Pretty judgy there, boys. All these hills are changing the way they operate in big ways to make things more safe. So are you really claiming that somebody from Troy skiing at Magic is worse then somebody from Rutland? For the record, I’m having a four person thanksgiving here. My FIL is having a solo thanksgiving. Like most things we won’t know until it’s all over what was necessary and what was overkill but we’re all doing our best.


----------



## XTski

jasonwx said:


> The more I read this thread the more i realize how fucked we are as Americans. It all about me me me . This state or that one doesn't have travel restrictions so I'll go there etc.. There is hardly any disease in Asia , because people actually listen and care about their fellow man.
> Is it so hard to sit an chill for a year? save a boat load of money if you are still employed and come out swing next year..Maybe even go heli skiing or the Alps with your saved up scratch...
> 
> Happy Turkey day!!


That’s what makes this country the best, do what you want not what the government tells you to, go to Asia and do whatever they tell you and enjoy the fuglies there but please don’t tell people what to do that is not what this country is about


----------



## JTG

Brownski said:


> Pretty judgy there, boys.


As I pondered a few pages back, it was just a matter of time. All kinds of different people, with all kinds of different opinions, all across the spectrum, some understandably of the hunker down variety......but did Jason just praise China for its human rights/care about your fellow man track record? I’m not sure that’s a winning argument!


----------



## Brownski

JTG said:


> did Jason just praise China for its human rights/care about your fellow man track record? I’m not sure that’s a winning argument!


Maybe, but he‘s old school Rockland so he’s alright. The dude skied at Ski Stony Point fer chrissakes


----------



## Peter Minde

marcski said:


> I lied down in mine the other day. Seems fine esp with a small air pad. And, I was also thinking a roof pod would make it even more comfy by getting the skis etc up top.


I put a Thermarest mattress and as closed cell foam mattress in that bad boy and I'm good. I agree with you about the roof box, it would give a lot more room. But I don't like mounting it when traveling solo.... too big of a mileage penalty.


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Europe at odds over plan to ban Christmas ski holidays amid pandemic
					

Germany, Italy and France in favour of resort closures but Austria and Switzerland fear economic damage




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## raisingarizona

rfreeman said:


> IMO adhering to the spirit of taking safe precautions takes precedence over adhering to the letter of unenforceable laws.
> 
> Day tripping in ones own car with a brown bag lunch to ski in a mask, gloves and goggles while riding lifts only with ones family members - whether or not one crosses state lines to do so -has to be one of the least risky out of home activities imaginable. Way less risk than outdoor dining, a trip to a grocery store, or taking an unmasked walk around your block or in a local park.


And I was going to road trip to go back country skiing. It could basically be done with zero contact except for maybe getting a hotel room.

cody and I went skiing yesterday morning. We had no close contact with anyone. People in line were distancing properly and wearing masks. There were plenty of tail gaters doing their thing in the lots. It seemed ok. We only stayed for 3 hours and stayed away from the rest rooms. That’s probably the catch, the parking lots are likely to see a large increase in human waste I imagine.


----------



## MarzNC

raisingarizona said:


> And I was going to road trip to go back country skiing. It could basically be done with zero contact except for maybe getting a hotel room.
> 
> cody and I went skiing yesterday morning. We had no close contact with anyone. People in line were distancing properly and wearing masks. There were plenty of tail gaters doing their thing in the lots. It seemed ok. We only stayed for 3 hours and stayed away from the rest rooms. That’s probably the catch, the parking lots are likely to see a large increase in human waste I imagine.


My approach to motel rooms is to stay where I can have an exterior door, so only in the lobby for check in. That's what my friends and I have reserved for skiing in CO this season.

As for rest rooms, if you are only in a building for 5-15 minutes and not standing still next to a masked stranger for more than a minute, it's highly unlikely that you would be exposed enough to get COVID-19 even if they have it and don't know it. Whether or not other people are masked, I stay as far away as practical. Even if that means waiting for someone to move or going a different way to get to where I'm going indoors.


----------



## raisingarizona

If I can stay completely clear of people I will. That wasn’t hard to do yesterday.
Snowbowls new bling bling sure is purdy. ?


----------



## NYSnowflake

XTski said:


> That’s what makes this country the best, do what you want not what the government tells you to, go to Asia and do whatever they tell you and enjoy the fuglies there but please don’t tell people what to do that is not what this country is about


@XTski What exactly do you mean by “enjoy the fuglies there”? This comes across as a racist statement.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Get it in early

It's not looking good, another "pause" is looking eminent.


----------



## Harvey

I didn't read Jason's statement as a comment on the government, more about the people themselves.

I looked up the word "fuglie" only comes up in the urban dictionary. Maybe time to review this:









NY Ski Forum Policies and Guidelines


Forum Guidelines By joining the forums you are agreeing to accept and abide by the guidelines below. Don't make work for the moderators. Activities that create work for the moderators can lead to a loss of privileges or banning, at our discretion. Fight your own battles. Don't ask moderators...




nyskiblog.com





I'm not big on moderating, I'd appreciate it if you don't push me there.

ETA: OK I learned something:



fuglies safety glasses - Google Search


----------



## XTski

NYSnowflake said:


> @XTski What exactly do you mean by “enjoy the fuglies there”? This comes across as a racist statement.


They are safety glasses, just meaning to stay safe; if you see I have posted about other types of protection, it goes with my job to keep employees safe, how in the world you came up with racist is beyond me,


----------



## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> If I can stay completely clear of people I will. That wasn’t hard to do yesterday.
> Snowbowls new bling bling sure is purdy. ?
> 
> View attachment 6849


Two lifts side-by-side or a quad on gondi on the same line?


----------



## Brownski

I believe snowflake took it as a derivation of the term “fugly” which is a contraction of the term “fucking ugly” and is commonly used as an insult in certain regional dialects in North America. My understanding of the usage is that it is generally an individual insult directed mainly at women and thus would be more likely to indicate sexist rather then racist subtexts, depending on the context in which it is used. So I think the confusion arises from the similarities in pronunciation of “fugly” and “fuglie”


----------



## Benny Profane

Wait, what?


----------



## NYSnowflake

XTski said:


> They are safety glasses, just meaning to stay safe; if you see I have posted about other types of protection, it goes with my job to keep employees safe, how in the world you came up with racist is beyond me,


Well that’s a relief. For people who don’t know that Fuglie is a brand of glasses the post reads as an insult to Asians. I double checked with my husband- had him read it before I told him what I thought it meant he said “that’s racist.”


----------



## NYSnowflake

Brownski said:


> I believe snowflake took it as a derivation of the term “fugly” which is a contraction of the term “fucking ugly” and is commonly used as an insult in certain regional dialects in North America. My understanding of the usage is that it is generally an individual insult directed mainly at women and thus would be more likely to indicate sexist rather then racist subtexts, depending on the context in which it is used. So I think the confusion arises from the similarities in pronunciation of “fugly” and “fuglie”


That is correct @Brownski. I read the post as saying Asians were as a group “F——“, which would be a racist thing to say.


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> Two lifts side-by-side or a quad on gondi on the same line?


Chondola


----------



## Benny Profane

Catchy.


----------



## raisingarizona

NYSnowflake said:


> @XTski What exactly do you mean by “enjoy the fuglies there”? This comes across as a racist statement.


Oh for Christ’s sake. You really are a delicate one.


----------



## Green light

My thoughts exactly. But I didn't want to be the first to say it.


----------



## Harvey

In Snowflake's defense, if you read her post she was asking what he meant, and saying how it appeared to her. Always a smart move vs jumping to a conclusion.


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Austria Allows Skiing At Xmas, But Only Just & Not For Many - PlanetSKI


It follows Italy, France and Germany backing a move for a coordinated opening of ski resorts in Europe. Austria has been firmly against the proposal. Some lifts will remain open but hotels, restaurants, bars and ski schools will be shut. Strict travel restrictions will be imposed and the slopes...



planetski.eu


----------



## Harvey

Benny Profane said:


> Catchy.



Ha... sounds like an STD or something.


----------



## XTski

Harvey said:


> In Snowflake's defense, if you read her post she was asking what he meant, and saying how it appeared to her. Always a smart move vs jumping to a conclusion.


Harvey you’re an awesome dude and right on and can run a killer site, raisin, green, camp appreciate the support as well , skiers take care of skiers,


----------



## raisingarizona

Green light said:


> My thoughts exactly. But I didn't want to be the first to say it.


I’m so over passive aggressive liberalism.


----------



## JTG

All I have to say is F you all. XTski committed a capital offense and should be punished accordingly!


----------



## JTG

Harvey said:


> Always a smart move vs jumping to a conclusion.


I won’t lie. When I first read XTski’s comment my mind jumped to “fucking uglies”....because fugly was an expression I was familiar with AND I had no idea Fuglies were a thing....and I scratched my head a bit. Not sure what the association is....I guess the style of Fuglies glasses is Asian fit, so maybe they wear a lot of Fuglies in Asian countries, and perhaps that has something to do with Asian peoples compassion for one another and/or their willingness to submit to Government mandates?

As for sunglasses, apparently some feel Asian fit is a racist concept (at least if you search the inter-web ), although it may be more of a marketing gimmick based on racial stereotypes. Whether marketing to racial stereotypes is cool or not....I don’t really know.

As for a little on topic content....coronavirus isn’t scuttling the trip I had planned to the Cascades next week, lack of snow is. Still an outside shot at decent snowfall at Baker midweek next week, but forecasts are trending in the wrong direction.


----------



## gorgonzola

overreaction to overreaction is pretty much our current sad state of affairs...


----------



## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> As for sunglasses


----------



## JTG

gorgonzola said:


> overreaction to overreaction is pretty much our current sad state of affairs...


This....and it is that ‘we need snow’ time of year!


----------



## Brownski

Campgottagopee said:


> View attachment 7047


That guy looks like he’d be fun to hang out with. I’m a little disappointed my explanation of the word fugly didn’t get a bigger laugh. I thought that was solid work. Too subtle?


----------



## Benny Profane

Campgottagopee said:


> View attachment 7047



The glasses compliment the extreme mullet.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> That guy looks like he’d be fun to hang out with. I’m a little disappointed my explanation of the word fugly didn’t get a bigger laugh. I thought that was solid work. Too subtle?



Twas solid work!!!

That dude is Larry Enticer


----------



## raisingarizona

You don’t want to leave your lady unattended around the Enticer.


----------



## gorgonzola

ha the best part about my trip to big snow was my buddy scored me some sweet pit vipers!


----------



## marcski

Campgottagopee said:


> Twas solid work!!!
> 
> That dude is Larry Enticer



Looks like he's part of Camp's sled gang.


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> You don’t want to leave your lady unattended around the Enticer.



Ah hell no! Swoop her up like a hog on a bait pile.


----------



## wonderpony

Campgottagopee said:


> Ah hell no! Swoop her up like a hog on a bait pile.


Trust me, I would be running as fast as I could from the Enticer. 

My hairdresser told me that high school kids are asking for mullets. We were both flabbergasted. There are some things that don't need to make a comeback.


----------



## JTG

wonderpony said:


> There are some things that don't need to make a comeback.


Why, do you consider them....fugly? And a mullet man wearing Fuglies, how do you feel about that?!


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> Trust me, I would be running as fast as I could from the Enticer.
> 
> My hairdresser told me that high school kids are asking for mullets. We were both flabbergasted. There are some things that don't need to make a comeback.



LOL!! You crack me up, WP

I joke with one of my buddy's that his mullet is finally back in style


----------



## raisingarizona

I was basically accused of being a sexist a few weeks back for disliking the mom jeans come back.

Whatever........bring back the mullet!


----------



## JTG

Here’s a little more Larry content for all you Enticer fans...









Web Redemption - Larry Enticer - Tosh.0 | Comedy Central US


Beer, mullets and snowmobiling: Daniel meets Canada's most badass daredevil.




www.cc.com


----------



## Harvey

I had to look up mom jeans. They look like jeans. What is different about them? They fit loose?

I don't get paying extra for rips. ?


----------



## raisingarizona

my opinion has nothing to do with woman. If dogs could talk and were wearing mom jeans I’d feel the same.

They fuglie af.


----------



## Brownski

My wife bought me skinny jeans a few years ago cause she was tired of looking at my carharts. Some times I feel like a piece of meat. Know what I mean? I’m a person fer chrissake


----------



## The UNHOLY

raisingarizona said:


> Whatever........bring back the mullet!


been working on that since the beginning of the covid lockdown - i had a mean one in the 80's ---this one is going to be EPIC ! I'm going Achy Breaky Heart big !


----------



## gorgonzola

wonderpony said:


> Trust me, I would be running as fast as I could from the Enticer.
> 
> My hairdresser told me that high school kids are asking for mullets. We were both flabbergasted. There are some things that don't need to make a comeback.


when i got around to cutting my covid hair I so wanted to do a mullet and shave the goat into a fu-man-porn-stache... wife would killed me though. thinking back I wish I would have paid the barber for two cuts just for some funny pics and a new fb profile


----------



## marcski

Brownski said:


> My wife bought me skinny jeans a few years ago cause she was tired of looking at my carharts. Some times I feel like a piece of meat. Know what I mean? I’m a person fer chrissake


This could be your best post in sometime, Brownski.


----------



## Brownski

Ha, thanks. Although it occurs to me there’s actually two ways I could take that.


----------



## Harvey

If moms want to wear those jeans I'm ok with it. Zelda tells me that is what our 14 year old is wearing. I don't care what my kid wears as long as she eats.

I can't deal with all this f'ing facetime at work. If you don't show your face it's not cool. Everyone has a special light and maybe a makeup artist. I'm fine with that, but don't make me look at my face all day.


----------



## Brownski

Nice thing about not being the boss- nobody gives a shit if I leave my camera off for a zoom meeting


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I can't deal with all this f'ing facetime at work. If you don't show your face it's not cool. Everyone has a special light and maybe a makeup artist. I'm fine with that, but don't make me look at my face all day.



That's one thing I DO NOT miss. So thankful I'm done with conf calls, zoom meetings and all that crap!


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> If moms want to wear those jeans I'm ok with it. Zelda tells me that is what our 14 year old is wearing. I don't care what my kid wears as long as she eats.
> 
> I can't deal with all this f'ing facetime at work. If you don't show your face it's not cool. Everyone has a special light and maybe a makeup artist. I'm fine with that, but don't make me look at my face all day.


Hey, freedom first. I’m just saying it’s a trend I didn’t care to see return which was turned into a “oh you’d rather have woman look all sexy etc.” blah blah blah.


----------



## Harvey

I never even heard of it, much less know that my daughter was wearing it. According to my wife it has something to do why her stomach is showing even when it is 20 degrees out. 

Sorry about my rona-rant on the facetime too. I am the 50% boss, it's my partner who wants everyone to be present on our calls. The calls are important since we aren't in the same building ever. I see the point of it, just don't really enjoy it myself. TBH it is nice to see the smiling faces. Im working solo here in 5000 sq ft.

Back on topic it occurs to me that Gore has no great amount of snow at the base. Not much room for any kind of maze. Hope I don't get the rona tomorrow.


----------



## Capdistski

Just got my coat out for going to WF tomorrow - I’m saving this lift ticket for my grandchildren - “what were you doing when the pandemic started grandpa?”


----------



## wonderpony

Capdistski said:


> Just got my coat out for going to WF tomorrow - I’m saving this lift ticket for my grandchildren - “what were you doing when the pandemic started grandpa?”


I remember very clearly thinking "Things are going to be very different next year." on my last day at Greek Peak.


----------



## Jon951

Shooting for WF on Monday. Wondering what the approx number of skiers who showed up today was. Just threw a stack of N95 masks in my truck in preparation for the days ahead.


----------



## tirolski

It’s news from the BBC and across the pond but... 








Covid: British skiers flee Verbier amid Swiss quarantine


More than 200 Britons flee Verbier, defying a Swiss order to remain in their hotels and chalets.



www.bbc.com


----------



## MarzNC

Don't know if this is behind the paywall or not:









‘Stay Alive and Survive’: Ski Resorts Brace for a Pandemic Season (Published 2020)


Many have put capacity restrictions in place, even as new lockdowns may spook visitors.




www.nytimes.com





Tahoe is completely confusing because CA travel and short-term lodging is restricted by not NV.









Lake Tahoe Closed to Tourists Due to COVID-19 Outbreak - Videos from The Weather Channel | weather.com


The California side of Lake Tahoe is closing to tourists for at least 3 weeks. Here’s why. - Videos from The Weather Channel | weather.com




weather.com


----------



## JTG

Looks like Coronavirus may keep my family from making the annual MLK trip to Placid/Whiteface for the first time in more than 20 years. The inability to secure lift tickets just makes the idea of going unattractive. It’s all a bit sad. At least I might get a longer trip west out of it, if we decide to go, because my son and I may push it to that weekend and get four days in.


----------



## Brownski

raisingarizona said:


> Covid is really screwing things up in mountain towns now. This may be the final nail in the coffin for the ski bum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ski communities are ‘getting crunched on all sides’
> 
> 
> The pandemic has heightened cost-of-living issues in resort towns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hcn.org


That is a hard read but it’s not news to me. Many ski town jobs (especially those highlighted in this article) are just a small component of the much larger leisure/lodging/restaurant businesses. The restaurant industry, I can attest, is still suffering an Armageddon.


----------



## lukoson

Anyone have a good COVID face mask suggestion for skiing? I think the one I have is breathable so might not be good protection.


----------



## Brownski

lukoson said:


> Anyone have a good COVID face mask suggestion for skiing? I think the one I have is breathable so might not be good protection.


My wife ordered some of the SkiTheEast masks as a Christmas gift. The graphics are a little flamboyant for me and they don’t have any real insulation value but they work well as a mask and come with a filter pocket and a couple replaceable filters.


----------



## wonderpony

I realized today that I really miss the social aspect of non-COVID skiing. I miss chatting with other skiers and boarders on the lift. Skiers and boarders are usually just so happy to be out skiing and are usually so positive. Unless, they're being truthful about conditions, of course.


----------



## Frk

Brownski said:


> My wife ordered some of the SkiTheEast masks as a Christmas gift. The graphics are a little flamboyant for me and they don’t have any real insulation value but they work well as a mask and come with a filter pocket and a couple replaceable filters.


I purchased masks made by Mission. I’m very happy with them. I tried a few others but they were all deficient inn some aspect.


----------



## Brownski

wonderpony said:


> I realized today that I really miss the social aspect of non-COVID skiing. I miss chatting with other skiers and boarders on the lift. Skiers and boarders are usually just so happy to be out skiing and are usually so positive. Unless, they're being truthful about conditions, of course.


I’m with you. You meet a lot of interesting folks on the lift


----------



## sig

wonderpony said:


> I realized today that I really miss the social aspect of non-COVID skiing. I miss chatting with other skiers and boarders on the lift. Skiers and boarders are usually just so happy to be out skiing and are usually so positive. Unless, they're being truthful about conditions, of course.


i am also with you. ski all day by myself but usually find someone to put up with me on the lift


----------



## Face4Me

lukoson said:


> Anyone have a good COVID face mask suggestion for skiing? I think the one I have is breathable so might not be good protection.







__





Amazon.com: Balaclava Face Mask - New Range 3 Pack Now with 20 PM 2.5 Filters - Comfortable Cooling Neck Gaiter with Filter and Ear Loops, Bandana Face Mask Black Grey, Silk face mask, Sports Mask with Filters. : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


Buy Balaclava Face Mask - New Range 3 Pack Now with 20 PM 2.5 Filters - Comfortable Cooling Neck Gaiter with Filter and Ear Loops, Bandana Face Mask Black Grey, Silk face mask, Sports Mask with Filters.: Shop top fashion brands Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry at Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY and Returns...



www.amazon.com




I bought these ... I've been pretty happy with them so far ... they're pretty comfortable ... I assume the filters are effective, but of course, who knows for sure.


----------



## MarzNC

lukoson said:


> Anyone have a good COVID face mask suggestion for skiing? I think the one I have is breathable so might not be good protection.


There are some ideas in this thread:








Masks for Skiing in 2020/2021


I keep thinking someone is going to make a good mask specifically for skiing, but I haven't seen one. I've seen a few advertised as such, but nothing that really seems to make sense to me. Anyone seen anything good? Not interested in anything single ply or with an exhale vent. ETA: Please...




nyskiblog.com





I've been reasonably happy with the Evo Arc Dynamax Dana. Has a shape that keeps it away from the mouth. So doesn't feel bad when it's a little damp. Getting hard to find though.


----------



## JTG

So, just like that our MLK trip is back on, and I’m more excited for the ski season. Much to Benny’s chagrin, WF opened up weekend and holiday ticket sales through April. Picked up tickets for MLK and Pres Day weekends.


----------



## snoloco

JTG said:


> So, just like that our MLK trip is back on, and I’m more excited for the ski season. Much to Benny’s chagrin, WF opened up weekend and holiday ticket sales through April. Picked up tickets for MLK and Pres Day weekends.


Sounds like they intend on opening up Wilmington by then if they released extra tickets.


----------



## tirolski

They found the new strain in a Saratoganian folks. 








Highly contagious UK variant of COVID-19 found in NY for first time


The highly contagious UK variant of the coronavirus has been detected in two New York City residents — one of whom recently traveled to the United Kingdom, Mayor Bill de Blasio revealed W…




nypost.com


----------



## raisingarizona

More on covid changing real estate markets in mountain towns. Bye bye ski bums. 








Coronavirus drives blistering sales of Colorado mountain homes


Prices are at record highs. Supplies of mountain homes for sale have never been lower. Across Colorado’s high country, resort community real estate...




durangoherald.com


----------



## Brownski

Yikes








COVID-19: Alert Issued For Exposure At Area Ski Resort


A skier at a Hudson Valley resort has tested positive for COVID-19, officials are cautioning.An alert was issued by the Sullivan County Public Health Service warning that some patrons may have been exposed to COVID-19 at the Holiday Mounta…




dailyvoice.com


----------



## ScottySkis

Brownski said:


> Yikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19: Alert Issued For Exposure At Area Ski Resort
> 
> 
> A skier at a Hudson Valley resort has tested positive for COVID-19, officials are cautioning.An alert was issued by the Sullivan County Public Health Service warning that some patrons may have been exposed to COVID-19 at the Holiday Mounta…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dailyvoice.com


Up in Sullivan county
I used to live 8 miles from that ski area and never thought of skiing because it goes along rte 17

Story here:
"Someone who recently went skiing in the Hudson Valley later tested positive for COVID-19.









Warning: Potential COVID-19 Exposures at Ski Resort in Hudson Valley


Someone who recently went skiing in the Hudson Valley later tested positive for COVID-19.




wpdh.com




Hope Governmento does not stop ski because of this


----------



## snoloco

Covid is skiing at every major resort, just like it's shopping at your grocery store, but because of the precautions in place, it's not likely to spread in either setting. This could've happened at any business.

At the first Buffalo Bills playoff game, they tested everyone who wanted to attend and about 2% tested positive. That means about 1 in 50 had it at the time. If there are 1000 skiers at a resort on a given day, then about 20 would statistically have it. Every business would be closed if they were required to close because someone there tested positive.

I believe they overreacted by closing. They were not required to or even asked to. This was a guest, not an employee. If an employee tests positive, it's a much bigger problem because they could've exposed other employees who now have to quarantine. If enough are taken out, it could close a resort temporarily, as happened at Hunter at the beginning of the month.


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

snoloco said:


> I believe they overreacted by closing.



The alternative is to simply shrug their shoulders and ignore it. That's bad policy and worse optics.


----------



## snoloco

No, it's neither. If the exposure was one day, and then you close 4 days later, it doesn't do anything to reduce exposure. It's not bad optics to stay open when there is minimal risk to guests and staff. If you remember his blog post, Harvey tested positive just days after skiing at Gore. They did not close because of it. There would be no businesses open if they closed every time someone who went there tested positive.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Testing positive and being contagious are different. Normally the damage has already been done once it's discovered one has tested positive.


----------



## raisingarizona

That junk is everywhere out here.

I’m quarantining right now from likely exposure from my coworker last week. I just found out but have skied the last few days. If I feel ok tomorrow I’m going to tour but keep some distance from my partners. I’d get tested but they are all closed because of the storm. We have gotten like 3 feet in town the last 24 and 4+ feet at the area.

I’m 99.99% sure I had the vid last January. All of my signs and symptoms lined up. I’m feeling fine right now so I think I have antibodies but there’s know way to really know.

I agree with Sno, you do what you can to protect people but we can’t stop living all together. That’s just crazy.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> That junk is everywhere out here.
> I’m quarantining right now from likely exposure from my coworker last week.
> I’m 99.99% sure I had the vid last January. All of my signs and symptoms lined up. I’m feeling fine right now so I think I have antibodies but there’s know way to really know.
> I agree with Sno, you do what you can to protect people but we can’t stop living all together. That’s just crazy.


RA, Might not be 99.99% sure but had a weird thing last winter early Feb. Sore throat, really tired, sweats, ... (weird stuff never felt before). The bat poo flu thing wasn't mentioned much then. Neighbor had clots and ended up in the VA on oxygen around the same time. We are all fine now for old farts. Ate some coldeze with zinc, vitamin C and slept. Who knows.


----------



## raisingarizona

Over the last few months I’ve had two close friends die of heart attacks. One 38 and the other a 43 year old female.

I just put aspirin in my back country med kit.


----------



## Tjf1967

Im if we concentrated on the 80% of the people that die from covid-100%of the 80% would be vaccinated right now.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> Over the last few months I’ve had two close friends die of heart attacks. One 38 and the other a 43 year old female.
> 
> I just put aspirin in my back country med kit.


Neighbor just told me a person he went to hunting camp (card playing, drinking beer and BS-ing) with just died @ 57 tested +. Friend I golf with up here is getting a brain-MRI done in Naples Fla. due to neurological stuff going on. Don’t think he’s been tested for the vid. Hope it’s resolvable.


----------



## raisingarizona

tirolski said:


> Neighbor just told me a person he went to hunting camp (card playing, drinking beer and BS-ing) with just died @ 57 tested +. Friend I golf with up here is getting a brain-MRI done in Naples Fla. due to neurological stuff going on. Don’t think he’s been tested for the vid. Hope it’s resolvable.


Yup. It seems like there’s a lot of weird, possible side effects from the vid. It’s hard to say I guess, the data isn’t there yet but I think there’s something to it, something we are just beginning to understand.


----------



## MarzNC

There have been several outbreaks (2+ cases at the same location) at ski resorts out west in the last six weeks. None have caused an open resort to shut down lifts. There was a delay of Opening Day for a small mountain in CA by a few days when employees tested positive. The best public info is for Colorado. Resort employees have included ski instructors, lodging staff, and others.

Many states have managed to document and do contact tracing for outbreaks at small businesses. Usual approach for a restaurant is to close for a week or two. At least that was the happening Jun-Nov when I was paying closer attention.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> There have been several outbreaks (2+ cases at the same location) at ski resorts out west in the last six weeks. None have caused an open resort to shut down lifts. There was a delay of Opening Day for a small mountain in CA by a few days when employees tested positive. The best public info is for Colorado. Resort employees have included ski instructors, lodging staff, and others.
> 
> Many states have managed to document and do contact tracing for outbreaks at small businesses. Usual approach for a restaurant is to close for a week or two. At least that was the happening Jun-Nov when I was paying closer attention.


The Jan 22nd ORDA board meeting had Rona info relating to their employees. There was also other some good info relating to their overall safety programs. Appears they’re going in the right direction.


----------



## raisingarizona

I'm about over this shit and I'm struggling to motivate to go up on the mountain. It's become such a hassle that it doesn't seem worth the effort. 

Covid has opened up a lot more time for people and our ski area is basically sold out every day now. I used to leave my house at 7:15 to get first chair on a powder day, now I have to leave by 6:45 and I'm sometimes still in a giant line of cars on the access road. Then we sit there in the car in the lot until 8 or 8:30 to line up and stand there waiting for another half hour for the lift to load at 9. This weekend the new lift broke down and the six pack line was twice the distance out from the corral and looped up the ski run. I went to the car and started cracking beers. It seems like this is the more normal experience skiing here now. It's really hard to remain positive right now and I'm feeling like the good ole days are over. Time to get back into backpacking so I can get the hell away from all of these people. I don't like spending my free time fighting traffic and standing in lines, that crap is for the city folk.


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> standing in lines



I won't do it

Thank gawd the bar opens at 11


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> I won't do it
> 
> Thank gawd the bar opens at 11


I’m suddenly looking more forward to packed powder days than powder days.


----------



## tirolski

RA, I’m with ya. I like people. I just don’t like lots of people. My first turns this year were at Labs rope tow. Wasn’t gonna wait in line and never tried a rope tow. 8 runs 10 min. Cracked apres beer in the lot and called it a ski day.


----------



## Kingslug

Fortunately i discovered Gore..yeah its 4 hours away and i leave at 345 am..but once your out of the base area..its uncrowded..i hate crowds as well...working in nyc has done that to me...
Need a change


----------



## DomB

Kingslug said:


> Fortunately i discovered Gore..yeah its 4 hours away and i leave at 345 am..but once your out of the base area..its uncrowded..i hate crowds as well...working in nyc has done that to me...
> Need a change


Slug, are you LI? 

Arizaona, sorry to hear it. I think you flexibility is good, and this is not fun but you will get through this. Belle, which was getting too crowded before this, has been my destination a handful of days. When there is more than a minute line (by say 10 am), I bug out, drive down the road, and do a short hike in nature and head home. 

Not ideal, but the flexibility was key. Good for you on leaving. 

Also, I sadly heard that a mid island fourth grade class had to quarantine because a family that goes to Windham every weekend contracted covid. The contract tracing pointed to Windham - we see the direct knock on effects of risk and choice. Not sayin one approach is better than the other. 

I just personally can't deal with the stress of worrying about my brood on the hills, so they won't ski this year. Admittedly only my son is close to as passionate about it as me, so maybe not a big loss to them. Can't tell with my daughter sometimes. She is 7, going on 17. : )


----------



## JTG

raisingarizona said:


> I’m suddenly looking more forward to packed powder days than powder days.










The COVID world is a pain....but stop with that silly talk, RA!


----------



## marcski

Winter Park declared active covid outbreak with 109 employees testing positive.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/11/winter-park-active-covid-outbreak/


----------



## MarzNC

Although the Winter Park outbreak among employees is a relatively large one, there have been reported outbreaks (2+ cases) involving Colorado ski resort staff pretty much all season. Finding the official list for all CO outbreaks is straightforward. Fair to say that CO is very aware of what is happening in the ski industry, from the destination resorts to ski areas like Monarch. The level of effort I experienced related to keeping up mask usage while loading lifts and avoiding crowding indoors was pretty impressive in the past week. My crew of four (NC, PA, OH, NM-driving) skied at Monarch, Wolf Creek, Copper, Loveland, and ABasin. Spent Super Bowl weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon) at Wolf Creek. Two skied in Colorado and at JH in Dec, while I and my ski buddy from the midwest skied at JH and Alta with a couple other travel buddies from the east. Everyone who got tested before and/or after traveling tested negative.

Local Denver news makes the point that detected outbreaks have been mainly been among locals and employees. Under 5 cases among guests as I remember.

Following article is from Feb. 4.









						As outbreaks among ski area employees add up, vaccine prioritization remains unclear
					

Twelve outbreaks among ski area employees were reported in January, raising questions about when these guest-facing employees, many of whom live in congregate housing, should be vaccinated. “We’re absolutely seeing a lot more outbreaks and...




					www.summitdaily.com


----------



## Tjf1967

f


----------



## Harvey

For those of us who buy a pass or passes anyway this season lack of hassle is an extra bonus.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> For those of us who buy a pass or passes anyway this season *abundance* of *snow* is an extra bonus.


Fixed it for ya Harvey. ❄️ ❄️ ❄️ ❄️


----------



## Harvey

Normal amount of snow. Abundance of cold.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> Normal amount of snow. Abundance of cold.


Cold keeps the snow from melting, just sayin.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Normal amount of snow. Abundance of cold.


I think CNY is actually below average for snowfall this year. You would never guess that looking at what we have out there.


----------



## XTski

marcski said:


> Winter Park declared active covid outbreak with 109 employees testing positive.
> 
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/11/winter-park-active-covid-outbreak/


Makes sense with people flying to ski


----------



## Ripitz

Old Ski Gondolas Find New Life as Private Dining Rooms
					

A Colorado woman is revamping used gondolas to help restaurants stay afloat with outdoor dining.




					www.foodandwine.com


----------



## JTG

Ripitz said:


> Old Ski Gondolas Find New Life as Private Dining Rooms
> 
> 
> A Colorado woman is revamping used gondolas to help restaurants stay afloat with outdoor dining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foodandwine.com


Mirror Lake Inn in Placid has done same at The Cottage. They picked up a couple WF gondola cabins at auction and use them for dining on the deck.


----------



## Endoftheline

Harvey said:


> Normal amount of snow. Abundance of cold.


Normal snow, above av temps and way below average warm up, thaws, rain events since Christmas.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> For those of us who buy a pass or passes anyway this season lack of hassle is an extra bonus.


Called Gore folks yesterday about using my first day on FSC. She said just go to the lift and get on. One of these days...


----------



## ScottySkis

Vermont let people in with the vaccine
""BREAKING: Vermont Drops Travel Restrictions for Those Who Are Vaccinated
For everyone inside and outside of Vermont who are 14 days beyond their second dose of an mRNA vaccine, there are no longer any travel restrictions. Vermont now joins New Hampshire as the only two states in the Northeast who have removed travel restrictions for those who have been vaccinated. Currently I am aware of only New Hampshire and Connecticut allowing those who have recovered from recent infection to also travel without restrictions and this is related to other CDC guidance. The walls are starting to fall along with plummeting infection rates in the Northeast.


----------



## Harvey

Makes sense. 

Although it makes it more likely that I'd push granny down the stairs so I could go to Magic.  

I read yesterday that VT was one of only 4 states with rising cases. Maybe a percentage on a small number?


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

ScottySkis said:


> Vermont let people in with the vaccine
> ""BREAKING: Vermont Drops Travel Restrictions for Those Who Are Vaccinated
> For everyone inside and outside of Vermont who are 14 days beyond their second dose of an mRNA vaccine, there are no longer any travel restrictions. Vermont now joins New Hampshire as the only two states in the Northeast who have removed travel restrictions for those who have been vaccinated. Currently I am aware of only New Hampshire and Connecticut allowing those who have recovered from recent infection to also travel without restrictions and this is related to other CDC guidance. The walls are starting to fall along with plummeting infection rates in the Northeast.



How would they know if someone's been vaccinated? If we've learned anything from the past year it's that people can't be trusted to do what's best for others if given a chance to what's worst.


----------



## JTG

I knew the day was coming.....card carrying vaxers. You got a card you can do shit that people without cards can’t. I’d prefer they just insert a chip when they vax me, then we can have scanners so’s we don’t have to bother flashing the card!


----------



## snowalrus

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> How would they know if someone's been vaccinated? If we've learned anything from the past year it's that people can't be trusted to do what's best for others if given a chance to what's worst.


I'm assuming there's no way for them to know, but there's also been no way for them to know if people are following quarantine and/or testing rules for travel. And people who'd lie about being vaccinated to get into the state are probably people who would/have been lying about quarantining... so they're not really adding more visitors in that regard. But now people who have been vaccinated but can't quarantine and have been following the guideline up to this point can visit with a clear conscience.


----------



## Harvey

snowalrus said:


> I'm assuming there's no way for them to know, but there's also been no way for them to know if people are following quarantine and/or testing rules for travel. And people who'd lie about being vaccinated to get into the state are probably people who would/have been lying about quarantining... so they're not really adding more visitors in that regard. But now people who have been vaccinated but can't quarantine and have been following the guideline up to this point can visit with a clear conscience.


This is plausible to me.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Maybe it's time for me to get a Killington spring pass!

mm


----------



## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> I’d prefer they just insert a chip when they vax me, then we can have scanners so’s we don’t have to bother flashing the card



Screw that

I'll take the hermit life over that crap


----------



## ScottySkis

Milo Maltbie said:


> Maybe it's time for me to get a Killington spring pass!
> 
> mm


Cheap I posted that price yesterday in pass thread
$249.00
Goes on sale in mid March


----------



## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> Screw that
> 
> I'll take the hermit life over that crap


That was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I’m with you. If you get the mRNA vax, who besides your RNA is being messaged?!?


----------



## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> That was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I’m with you. If you get the mRNA vax, who besides your RNA is being messaged?!?



lol

I knew you were just joking


----------



## Frk

Harvey said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> Although it makes it more likely that I'd push granny down the stairs so I could go to Magic.
> 
> I read yesterday that VT was one of only 4 states with rising cases. Maybe a percentage on a small number?





JTG said:


> I knew the day was coming.....card carrying vaxers. You got a card you can do shit that people without cards can’t. I’d prefer they just insert a chip when they vax me, then we can have scanners so’s we don’t have to bother flashing the card!


Is this sarcasm or are you going down the rabbit hole designed by Q?


----------



## Harvey

I was just trying to be funneh.


----------



## JTG

Who, me? The chip and scanner bit was sarcastic, but the days where your life/options are affected by your card carrying status.....is that so hard to believe?


----------



## wonderpony

How long do we think this $hit is going to last? We're coming up on a year. I have a friend in phase 1b who can't get a vax appointment until April, and has to drive an hour to get it. I'm at the bottom of the food chain, in phase 47000zzzz. I guess pandemic fatigue is finally getting to me. I just bought more masks, anticipating at least another six months.

I guess the good news is that GP won't get shut down early this year.


----------



## Brownski

This sign made me laugh, first at the obvious nature of it and second at the image of the dude spewing in his bud’s face.


----------



## Ripitz




----------



## snoloco

wonderpony said:


> How long do we think this $hit is going to last? We're coming up on a year. I have a friend in phase 1b who can't get a vax appointment until April, and has to drive an hour to get it. I'm at the bottom of the food chain, in phase 47000zzzz. I guess pandemic fatigue is finally getting to me. I just bought more masks, anticipating at least another six months.
> 
> I guess the good news is that GP won't get shut down early this year.


It's tough to say exactly, but my opinion is we are definitely on a path back to normalcy. Some main points on the pandemic itself:

Based on estimates from the federal government, there will be enough vaccines for the entire adult population by July. Since the new administration took office, distribution has picked up every week, and that trend will continue. I don't see most, if any restrictions being politically viable after anyone who wants a vaccine can take one. 

And skiing specifically:

No state will completely shut down skiing. Ski season will continue as long as there is snow and the resorts want to keep operating. You'll be able to ski outdoors until at least late May, and all summer indoors at Big Snow.

The vaccine distribution won't be fast enough to make a difference before the end of the ski season, so current rules will be in place for the rest of the season. Even if it speeds up significantly, there's no sense in changing the rules in late March with only a few weeks left at the northern resorts.

Travel restrictions should lose focus or be eliminated entirely as the numbers keep coming down.

I don't anticipate the same falloff in demand as seen in previous seasons. Capacity restrictions are keeping the current skier visits artificially low, and some people may ski later on who were unable to get tickets during the peak season.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> distribution has picked up every week, and that trend will continue


Our counties vax's have been constantly delayed


----------



## snoloco

That's not what the numbers say.


----------



## ScottySkis

snoloco said:


> That's not what the numbers say.


Politics corruption those numbers be my bet


----------



## saratogahalfday

ScottySkis said:


> Cheap I posted that price yesterday in pass thread
> $249.00
> Goes on sale in mid March


I saw a few VT plates at Gore yesterday. If they can come here, we can go there in my mind.


----------



## Tjf1967

The king directs things where he sees fit. In a republican county with a loud mouth executive you don't get a vax center. You have to travel. I am pretty sure we have seen the worst of it. I bet by end of April this thing is just about eliminated. Vaccine distribution has picked up but it has nothing to do with who is President.


----------



## Kingslug

Whoever makes these signs is a millionaire by now..They just keep adding them and adding them. At Gore they screwed more of them to the wall..They are everywhere. The funny one is on the outside of the lodge..says whoever rides this bus must wear a mask..hmmm..big bus...


----------



## snoloco

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...vaccine-supplies-n1258587?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_nn

Production is about to increase dramatically. Connecticut just announced they will gradually open up eligibility to ages 16+ by May 3rd, which is the minimum age the Pfizer vaccine is currently approved for. I expect other states to follow a similar trend as it's all based on supply.

And tjf, I think that there are multiple factors leading to increased supply, and it's not all due to who's in the White House. Having a president more focused on overturning the election in the first month certainly didn't help things, but it's impossible to know how much effect it really had.


----------



## Brownski

Hey Sno. We don’t do politics here anymore. How about you drop it?


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> That's not what the numbers say.



I don't care what the numbers say, I'm talking real world shit. Someday I hope you'll understand what I mean by that.


----------



## snoloco

Brownski said:


> Hey Sno. We don’t do politics here anymore. How about you drop it?


Discussion of covid is inherently political. Also, I'm not going to tolerate Camp pushing conspiracies and disinformation.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Also, I'm not going to tolerate Camp pushing conspiracies and disinformation.



WTF! I'm telling your snot nosed ass the way it is here where I live. As far as I'm concerned you can go fuck yourself. And no, I'm not kidding.


----------



## Tjf1967

snoloco said:


> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...vaccine-supplies-n1258587?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_nn
> 
> Production is about to increase dramatically. Connecticut just announced they will gradually open up eligibility to ages 16+ by May 3rd, which is the minimum age the Pfizer vaccine is currently approved for. I expect other states to follow a similar trend as it's all based on supply.
> 
> And tjf, I think that there are multiple factors leading to increased supply, and it's not all due to who's in the White House. Having a president more focused on overturning the election in the first month certainly didn't help things, but it's impossible to know how much effect it really had.


Well what you think really does not matter. Elon Musk is producing more cars now. It had nothing to do with incentives or who is in office. It has everything to do with ramping up production. We have 7 billion people to vaccinate. It started in December, Its just beginning to ramp up.


----------



## Frk

Campgottagopee said:


> WTF! I'm telling your snot nosed ass the way it is here where I live. As far as I'm concerned you can go fuck yourself. And no, I'm not kidding.


Please take a hike from this forum.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Frk said:


> Please take a hike from this forum.



You aren't the boss of me

Thank you for being polite

My comment was only directed to Snoreloco as he called me a liar. If he want's to talk like a man, I will treat him like a man instead of the little pussy he is. I've called someone a liar twice in my life and I was prepared to fight both times. One time I got a fight, the other time the guy was either truly a liar and I called his bluff, or he was a puss.

Rant over


----------



## JTG

We know Camp has participated in Chinese Downhill. How about Sno?

That’s the only fight we’ll condone here. My money is in Camp...


----------



## Campgottagopee

JTG said:


> My money is in Camp...



Mine too


----------



## Ripitz

Campgottagopee said:


> You aren't the boss of me
> 
> Thank you for being polite
> 
> My comment was only directed to Snoreloco as he called me a liar. If he want's to talk like a man, I will treat him like a man instead of the little pussy he is. I've called someone a liar twice in my life and I was prepared to fight both times. One time I got a fight, the other time the guy was either truly a liar and I called his bluff, or he was a puss.
> 
> Rant over


I don’t think calling people names or threatening them is necessary in this situation


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> I don’t think calling people names or threatening them is necessary in this situation



That's the difference between you and me

For the most part I'm pretty tolerant to peoples comments toward me. If you call me a liar or a thief I'll come after you. Ain't nobody got time for that BS


----------



## Frk

Campgottagopee said:


> That's the difference between you and me
> 
> For the most part I'm pretty tolerant to peoples comments toward me. If you call me a liar or a thief I'll come after you. Ain't nobody got time for that BS


You have demonstrated the difference between you and a lot of people many times. Name calling and threatening are not acceptable forms of discourse. Why would people want to participate in this forum with the possibility to be subjected to this behavior?


----------



## XTski

Frk said:


> You have demonstrated the difference between you and a lot of people many times. Name calling and threatening are not acceptable forms of discourse. Why would people want to participate in this forum with the possibility to be subjected to this behavior?


I think Camp has been within his rights, this site is sweet you don’t have the pay to play site bs like they have at the dcski website where people who contribute can post free commercials for their own benefit wether they are time share owners at Massanutten or workers for Snowshoe etc


----------



## Campgottagopee

Frk said:


> You have demonstrated the difference between you and a lot of people many times. Name calling and threatening are not acceptable forms of discourse. Why would people want to participate in this forum with the possibility to be subjected to this behavior?



It says right in the rules of the forum to fight your own battles

There's even a whiny form that can be filled out and posted

Feel free to fill one out on me


----------



## Harvey

Campgottagopee said:


> It says right in the rules of the forum to fight your own battles
> 
> There's even a whiny form that can be filled out and posted
> 
> Feel free to fill one out on me



Haha someone read the rules. That's cool.

You lost me X. In another forum you have to pay to post? 



Kidding.


----------



## Harvey

I see both sides of this. Sno presented some generalized input, Camp said he wasn't seeing that in his area.

Whatever.

Shutting this for a short while. Maybe just a day. 

Look, I hate to say it but we still kind of need this thread. Hopefully not for too much longer, but now we do. Let's try not to overreact to stuff.


----------



## MarzNC

May not make much difference for this community, but PA dropped travel restrictions as of March 1.

There are 3-4 weeks left in the season in PA. Might have a few places trying to make it until April 4 since that's Easter.


----------



## gorgonzola

MarzNC said:


> May not make much difference for this community, but PA dropped travel restrictions as of March 1.
> 
> There are 3-4 weeks left in the season in PA. Might have a few places trying to make it until April 4 since that's Easter.


I can post my NY trips on social media now lol. Now if VT would only do the same for spring skiing


----------



## Country Gun

gorgonzola said:


> I can post my NY trips on social media now lol. Now if VT would only do the same for spring skiing


Glad to hear that, Next season I will have no Facebook memories for skiing. But my own memories are still there. Feb was a great Month for NY skiing.


----------



## wonderpony

Weird random question. When your group is approved for the vaccine, which mine won't be for months, will you "vaccine shop"? IOW, will you look for a place that you can get a higher efficacy rating than the J&J?


----------



## Brownski

wonderpony said:


> Weird random question. When your group is approved for the vaccine, which mine won't be for months, will you "vaccine shop"? IOW, will you look for a place that you can get a higher efficacy rating than the J&J?


No. I’ll take whatever’s available. Funnily enough I got an email from my company a couple weeks ago that NYS had gotten to 1B which supposedly included us and on that basis I got an appointment, brought my essential worker letter and everything, only to be told that yes I’m in the 1B group but they didn’t mean everybody in 1B, just these particular subgroups of 1B. I don’t know if it was just the location I made the appointment at or the whole state. The worker that rejected me was talking in circles. Oh well.


----------



## MarzNC

wonderpony said:


> Weird random question. When your group is approved for the vaccine, which mine won't be for months, will you "vaccine shop"? IOW, will you look for a place that you can get a higher efficacy rating than the J&J?


Nope. Don't care which one I get. All three are very good when it comes to protecting against serious illness and death. The actual effectiveness in preventing infection at all for an individual is impossible to completely predict based on clinical trials data, no matter how many thousands of subjects are included.

Someone asked me if the 0.5% difference in efficacy results between Pfizer and Moderna mattered. I said "no" without any hesitation. Especially for someone under 40 who has no medical history that puts them into a higher risk category.

I'm not quite 65. My ski buddy in New Mexico is frustrated because it's the only state that is using 75+ as the initial age and then is going to drop to 60+. He's 68. That means he'll be part of a much bigger group than in other states that are following the federal guideline of using 65 as a cutoff age.


----------



## Harvey

I can't find a medical professional who agrees that J&J is less effective.

Moderna and Pfizer were only tested against the original variant. J&J was tested against a wide variety including the UK and SA variants. Hence the "lower" number. The J&J number is likely more accurate with what we are facing now.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> I can't find a medical professional who agrees that J&J is less effective.
> 
> Moderna and Pfizer were only tested against the original variant. J&J was tested against a wide variety including the UK and SA variants. Hence the "lower" number. The J&J number is likely more accurate with what we are facing now.


This ^^^^
That’s the answer. The virus mutates and the most recent trials are the most accurate. 

mm


----------



## jasonwx

According to ny anyone with a BMI over 30 is eligible for a shot
That is a lot of people. 
I am lucky I work in education.


----------



## saratogahalfday

jasonwx said:


> According to ny anyone with a BMI over 30 is eligible for a shot
> That is a lot of people.
> I am lucky I work in education.


Not only BMI over 30, but anyone with high blood pressure!


----------



## jasonwx

saratogahalfday said:


> Not only BMI over 30, but anyone with high blood pressure!


So basically every male over 40
No more excuses people


----------



## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> No more excuses people



I get mine 4/13
Hoping for the JJ version simply because it's only one shot and done. Not that I mind getting shots (get shots in me knee every three months), don't like having to drive to Cuse to get it.


----------



## saratogahalfday

jasonwx said:


> So basically every male over 40
> No more excuses people


I don't suffer from either affliction, but you're right, that will include a large swath of the NYS population. If you're in that boat, get vaccinated and then address the reason why you're eligible, because that will kill you as well.


----------



## Brownski

jasonwx said:


> According to ny anyone with a BMI over 30 is eligible for a shot
> That is a lot of people.
> I am lucky I work in education.


I’ll believe it when I see it. I was literally in the building with an appointment and an eligibility letter in my hand and I was turned around. NYS sucks. There’s nothing we can’t fuck up


----------



## jasonwx

Brownski said:


> I’ll believe it when I see it. I was literally in the building with an appointment and an eligibility letter in my hand and I was turned around. NYS sucks. There’s nothing we can’t fuck up


You were very unfortunate I know people that walked in with letters of bullshit and had no problems at all


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

Brownski said:


> I’ll believe it when I see it. I was literally in the building with an appointment and an eligibility letter in my hand and I was turned around. NYS sucks. There’s nothing we can’t fuck up


What was their reasoning?


----------



## Brownski

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> What was their reasoning?


They seemed to be picking and choosing which 1B businesses were eligible for the particular batch of vaccines they were distributing. I don’t know if it was a state rule, a county rule, the individuals’ incompetence or if I was just dealing with another little Napoleon. I suspect it’s the latter.


----------



## Harvey

saratogahalfday said:


> I don't suffer from either affliction, but you're right, that will include a large swath of the NYS population. If you're in that boat, get vaccinated and then address the reason why you're eligible, because that will kill you as well.


I have high BP, I take meds for it. Maybe I can address it by retiring in 3 years.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I have high BP, I take meds for it. Maybe I can address it by retiring in 3 years.



LOL
My doc says it's hereditary, both my parents have it, I have it too. Maybe I should kill them?? LOL


----------



## snoloco

New York State is dropping their travel restrictions for vaccinated people. Vermont and New Hampshire already made exceptions for vaccinated people. Pennsylvania dropped them entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if travel restrictions are removed entirely this month. Vaccine supply is dramatically increasing, and it shouldn't take long to be out of the scarcity phase entirely. In fact by the end of May, just 3 months from now, there will be enough supply for all adults. This is the beginning of the end of this nightmare.


----------



## jasonwx

snoloco said:


> New York State is dropping their travel restrictions for vaccinated people. Vermont and New Hampshire already made exceptions for vaccinated people. Pennsylvania dropped them entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if travel restrictions are removed entirely this month. Vaccine supply is dramatically increasing, and it shouldn't take long to be out of the scarcity phase entirely. In fact by the end of May, just 3 months from now, there will be enough supply for all adults. This is the beginning of the end of this nightmare.


I hope you are right
I think these mutations might put the brakes on all the optimism


----------



## Campgottagopee

Morning news says 1 out of every 10 adults are fully vaxed


----------



## jasonwx

Campgottagopee said:


> Morning news says 1 out of every 10 adults are fully vaxed


I get my second shot on sat


----------



## DomB

I am optimistic, but IMO, it is the rate of vaccination versus the rate of the more aggressive mutations spreading. 

Once enough are vaccinated, the mutations will have less chance to spread or develop. 

And I have noticed over the past few weeks that I have gone from only knowing a few older folks who have had vaccines to it moving down/around to others even with my closer circle. 

The three Ws until we get to 70% of population vaccination : )


----------



## idratherbskiing

jasonwx said:


> I hope you are right
> I think these mutations might put the brakes on all the optimism


Right on...now we just have to hope there are less Anti Vaxxers in this country/world than the ones that are making noise.


----------



## idratherbskiing

jasonwx said:


> I get my second shot on sat


First one Thursday...and I hope it's the J&J one


----------



## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> I think these mutations might put the brakes on all the optimism



I read that as long as you've been vaxed the variants won't be as bad. As in yo might get sick but not to the point of needing to be hospitalized. Guess it makes sense?


----------



## snoloco

jasonwx said:


> I hope you are right
> I think these mutations might put the brakes on all the optimism


Some experts pushed the variant narrative hard back in December/January in an attempt to get people to recommit to suppression efforts. It did not work. In fact it backfired horribly, leading to people being more hesitant to take the vaccine. I'm just not convinced at this point that there is some impending "mutation apocalypse".


----------



## DomB

Campgottagopee said:


> I read that as long as you've been vaxed the variants won't be as bad. As in yo might get sick but not to the point of needing to be hospitalized. Guess it makes sense?


I read same - in J&J study (which included SA variant), no one who received the vax died, which to me is the most important. 85% effective against severe/hospitalization level event. 

J&J has lower numbers but also likely had more variants than the mRna vax's.


----------



## gorgonzola

Even though I think I'm in relatively good shape a few of @ScottySkis lunches would let me play the obese card!


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> leading to people being more hesitant to take the vaccine.


I don't know why anyone cares about people who don't want a vaccine. Good! Don't get one. Move me up the line. It's as uninteresting a story to me as anything to do with any royal family. And that's the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

D.B. Cooper said:


> I don't know why anyone cares about people who don't want a vaccine. Good! Don't get one. Move me up the line. It's as uninteresting a story to me as anything to do with any royal family. And that's the bottom of the barrel.


The reason you should care about people who refuse the vaccine is that the virus will spread and mutate among unvaccinated people. No vaccine provides perfect protection, and mutations only make your vaccine less effective. Also, there's no vacine available yet for my grandchilderen, so anti-vaxxers just make it more dangerous for them. It's really gonna require the vast majority of the whole world to be vaccinated before the pandemic is under control.

mm


----------



## Endoftheline

jasonwx said:


> I get my second shot on sat


Any side effects from the second one? Did you get the Phizer? I've talked with a handful of people who had some side effects after the second one but usually only for a day or so after. Chills, fatigue, low grade fever, sore arm from shot.


----------



## Brownski

My wife exhibited the symptoms you describe for a couple days. Other folks I know had none


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I had a little soreness at the injection site, but no other side effects of two Phizer shots.

mm


----------



## MarzNC

Milo Maltbie said:


> It's really gonna require the vast majority of the whole world to be vaccinated before the pandemic is under control.


Herd immunity is going to be a combination of vaccination and people who have had COVID-19 and recovered. While COVID-19 is obviously dangerous to more people than seasonal flu, it's also true that most people who get infected do not have major issues. Given that there are an unknown number of people who had COVID-19 in 2020 and didn't know it, that means a certain percentage already are at most lower risk of becoming carriers.

Typically only about 50% of American adults get flu shots. Somewhat higher percentage for children. Hopefully the percentage for COVID-19 vaccinations will be a bit higher in 2021 given that the worst part of the pandemic will be fresh in people's memories.









When Could the United States Reach Herd Immunity? It’s Complicated. (Published 2021)


See how vaccines, distancing measures and the rise of coronavirus variants affect projections for herd immunity and when we might reach it.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## tirolski

Looks like the dude whose outfit works with the Wuhan Institute of Virology skied Gore last week after returning from Wuhan to investigate the origin of the virus with others on WHO’s mission.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367204851130712068


----------



## tirolski

Looks like after Easter at best for Sud Tirol.








More Ski Resorts in Italy Call It A Day - PlanetSKI


The prospect of opening this season is over for most though some still hold out some hope. The government has imposed tighter restrictions as cases of Covid-19 grow.



planetski.eu


----------



## MarzNC

French lifts were closed all of February.









France to keep ski lifts shut throughout February holidays


Ski lifts at mountain resorts in France will stay closed throughout the month of February, the government has said, essentially writing off this winter sports tourism season due to the Covid-19 pandemic.




www.france24.com


----------



## tirolski

Wonder if correlation holds with skiers? More cardio better.








New study finds slow walkers four times more likely to die from COVID-19: study


Slow walkers are almost four times more likely to die from COVID-19, and have over twice the risk of contracting a severe version of the virus, according to a team of researchers from the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) Leicester Biomedical Research Centre led by Professor Tom...




medicalxpress.com


----------



## jasonwx

tirolski said:


> Wonder if correlation holds with skiers? More cardio better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New study finds slow walkers four times more likely to die from COVID-19: study
> 
> 
> Slow walkers are almost four times more likely to die from COVID-19, and have over twice the risk of contracting a severe version of the virus, according to a team of researchers from the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) Leicester Biomedical Research Centre led by Professor Tom...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medicalxpress.com


Did they ask people before they went in a vent if they strolled or speed walked?
I guess everyone in nyc is safe 
Cause they all walk like they are being chased


----------



## tirolski

jasonwx said:


> Did they ask people before they went in a vent if they strolled or speed walked?
> I guess everyone in nyc is safe
> Cause they all walk like they are being chased


It’s the Brits and self reporting retrospective walking pace, so for some yes. 
NYC folks weren't retrospectively analyzed in the study. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00771-z


----------



## Harvey

Attn @sig 









Vail Resorts Visits Strong, But Revenues Decline


SAM Magazine—Broomfield, Colo., Mar. 15, 2021—Vail Resorts (VR) saw year-over-year business levels improve during January and February, with season-to-date




www.saminfo.com


----------



## tirolski

Whistler Blackcomb closes till 19APR21 due to rise of cases in BC.








Whistler Blackcomb temporarily closed amid spiking COVID-19 cases in resort community


The popular Whistler Blackcomb ski resort has been temporarily closed amid another spike in COVID-19 cases in the surrounding community.



bc.ctvnews.ca


----------



## takeahike46er

tirolski said:


> Whistler Blackcomb closes till 19APR21 due to rise of cases in BC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whistler Blackcomb temporarily closed amid spiking COVID-19 cases in resort community
> 
> 
> The popular Whistler Blackcomb ski resort has been temporarily closed amid another spike in COVID-19 cases in the surrounding community.
> 
> 
> 
> bc.ctvnews.ca



Sad to see when the conditions are so good at the moment, but it’s understandable given the exponential growth of Covid cases in BC with limited vaccine supply in Canada.


----------



## Kingslug

I'm good to go then..few can walk like me..learned it by... I can't wait to get out of the city syndrome...


----------



## takeahike46er

tirolski said:


> Whistler Blackcomb closes till 19APR21 due to rise of cases in BC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whistler Blackcomb temporarily closed amid spiking COVID-19 cases in resort community
> 
> 
> The popular Whistler Blackcomb ski resort has been temporarily closed amid another spike in COVID-19 cases in the surrounding community.
> 
> 
> 
> bc.ctvnews.ca



Scratch that. They announced they are now closed for the 2020-21 season. No possibility for spring skiing at Blackcomb.


----------



## ScottySkis

The Vermont Forward Plan - a roadmap to the next three months of reopening the state has been announced. Full details here: https://vermont.gov/vermont-forward


----------



## Brownski

Yikes








A brutal year for Vermont’s ski industry: Losses estimated at $100 million - VTDigger


The pandemic caused a massive decrease in day visits, especially from out-of-state skiers, dealing a huge blow to resorts and lodging services.



vtdigger.org


----------



## MC2

Guys at Jay Peak said they were empty all year. The lack of Canadian tourism (especially) killed their skier visits.


----------



## Brownski

That makes sense. Hopefully nobody goes out of business


----------



## snoloco

Brownski said:


> Yikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A brutal year for Vermont’s ski industry: Losses estimated at $100 million - VTDigger
> 
> 
> The pandemic caused a massive decrease in day visits, especially from out-of-state skiers, dealing a huge blow to resorts and lodging services.
> 
> 
> 
> vtdigger.org


When you lock yourself down to all out of state travel, don't be surprised if you lose tourism money. Their governor made that decision, and now he gets to live with it. It should be noted that there was practically zero enforcement outside of lodging, but it still kept people away, as did the resort capacity restrictions, which were more strict than in other states. They had a 50% limit on lift capacity, and 25% on indoor facilities. Other northeast states allowed lifts to be loaded with one or two empty seats between parties, and also allowed lodge capacity to be higher. This means less people can be accommodated safely on the mountain. They had the most restrictive rules for ski resorts in North America outside of Ontario which shut them down completely for 8 weeks from late December into February, and then shut them down again a few days ago.


----------



## tirolski

Feel the Bern.


----------



## G.ski

snoloco said:


> When you lock yourself down to all out of state travel, don't be surprised if you lose tourism money. Their governor made that decision, and now he gets to live with it. It should be noted that there was practically zero enforcement outside of lodging, but it still kept people away, as did the resort capacity restrictions, which were more strict than in other states. They had a 50% limit on lift capacity, and 25% on indoor facilities. Other northeast states allowed lifts to be loaded with one or two empty seats between parties, and also allowed lodge capacity to be higher. This means less people can be accommodated safely on the mountain. They had the most restrictive rules for ski resorts in North America outside of Ontario which shut them down completely for 8 weeks from late December into February, and then shut them down again a few days ago.


I love skiing in VT. Hoping to be able to justify getting a K pass next season after bagging it this past season. I particularly miss skiing there this time of year

But this only reinforces what I knew would happen. VT announced these draconian restrictions and out of state skiers said no thank you. Now we'll get to hear all summer how VT is hurting economically. Don't be surprised if the state starts begging for a bailout. You can't cut the balls off your main economic driver and then wonder about gargantuan revenue losses.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> don't be surprised if you lose tourism money


Was anyone surprised?

I'd be surprised if anyone was surprised.


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

Harvey said:


> Was anyone surprised?
> 
> I'd be surprised if anyone was surprised.



Indeed, it was (like damn near everything in early 2020) a calculation. What's more important, our money or our lives? They sided with human lives. Unlike the governments in many states and certainly in DC.


----------



## Low Angle Life

Harvey said:


> Was anyone surprised?
> 
> I'd be surprised if anyone was surprised.


Most people who I know living up that way seemed pleased with Gov Scotts decision making. It's a tiny state with VERY limited hospital capacity and they were well aware of how critical tourism is to the local economy going into this. Add in the fact that Vermonters hate people, particularly flatlanders and I think it all worked out.


----------



## G.ski

Low Angle Life said:


> Most people who I know living up that way seemed pleased with Gov Scotts decision making. It's a tiny state with VERY limited hospital capacity and they were well aware of how critical tourism is to the local economy going into this. Add in the fact that Vermonters hate people, particularly flatlanders and I think it all worked out.


So then they should be happy with the revenue losses.

I particularly agree with the last sentence of your post. In fact I wonder even if all restrictions are gone for next season if I want to spend money in a state whose residents hate me.


----------



## Face4Me

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> Indeed, it was (like damn near everything in early 2020) a calculation. What's more important, our money or our lives? They sided with human lives. Unlike the governments in many states and certainly in DC.


It's worth noting that Vermont has the 2nd lowest per capita rate of COVID cases in the country, behind only Hawaii.


----------



## Harvey

G.ski said:


> So then they should be happy with the revenue losses.



That doesn't really follow logically. I choose to go to the dentist, but I'm not happy about the drilling.



G.ski said:


> a state whose residents hate me.



This is a bit extreme. Still, I've seen flatlander disdain in both NY and VT. 

I don't ever understand being down on your customers.


----------



## G.ski

Harvey said:


> I don't ever understand being down on your customers.


My only point. Whatever the reason.


----------



## witch hobble

Just for context here:

a) have you guys ever worked in industrialized tourism?

b) have you ever met Vermonters in person?....away from the internet and it’s unmatched ability to cast aspersions widely.


----------



## Low Angle Life

witch hobble said:


> Just for context here:
> 
> a) have you guys ever worked in industrialized tourism?
> 
> b) have you ever met Vermonters in person?....away from the internet and it’s unmatched ability to cast aspersions widely.


a) My degree is in Parks, Recreation & Tourism from you guessed it University of Vermont, took many a ski industry management classes in my time there and stayed working in the industry afterward.

b) This is all in good fun, I have a fairly good understanding of the whole dynamic up there and was doing quite a bit of generalizing because this is New York Ski blog and I come here to poke fun at Vermont. Especially after respecting their travel bans making it the first year in quite sometime that I've spent no time in the state.


----------



## Harvey

As of now, I'm six weeks from being fully vaxed.

Can I go to Killy in six weeks just drive into town and ski?

Will Killy be open in six weeks?


----------



## Low Angle Life

Harvey said:


> As of now, I'm six weeks from being fully vaxed.
> 
> Can I go to Killy in six weeks just drive into town and ski?
> 
> Will Killy be open in six weeks?


Technically you're clear two weeks after your final vaccine, bring your little vaccine card, I doubt anyone will ask to see it but you will have a clear conscience. 

Killy being open? Your guess is as good as mine.


----------



## Harvey

Four weeks until shot 2, plus 2 weeks = 6.

In a normal beast year how far do they get?


----------



## Harvey

Harvey said:


> I don't ever understand being down on your customers.



Thinking about it, I do get being down on your customers. I guess in our business we try to hide it.

It's certainly not a categorical thing. Maybe not the most honest.


----------



## Brownski

I lived in Vermont for about six months. Most people there are pretty nice but I can’t think of anywhere I’ve ever been that I couldn’t say the same thing about. Maybe I’m just easy to get along with


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> Four weeks until shot 2, plus 2 weeks = 6.
> 
> In a normal beast year how far do they get?


So you got Moderna


----------



## Low Angle Life

Harvey said:


> In a normal beast year how far do they get?


The Superstar glacier holds snow straight through May in a normal year and often into the first days of June


----------



## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> This is a bit extreme. Still, I've seen flatlander disdain in both NY and VT.
> 
> I don't ever understand being down on your customers.


This reminds me of the classic bumper sticker, “If it’s tourist season, why can’t we shoot them?”


----------



## Low Angle Life

Ripitz said:


> This reminds me of the classic bumper sticker, “If it’s tourist season, why can’t we shoot them?”


Or my personal favorite "Don't Jersey Vermont"


----------



## SudsNBumps

Back in the day I remembered " Welcome to Vermont Now Go Home" bumper stickers in the Wilmington area. They may still be there but I haven't. I skied Mad River for a dozen years for free thanks to my Vermont boss. 
I worked in Bennington for 5 and a few out of Rutland(used to get at least a half day every time we had a meeting in winter) I still enjoy visiting Vermont. I will be officially allowed as of Monday...the day after my home mountain closes...to revisit and ski. I will be going to KMart very soon. By the way there will be a DUCK party there May 1st! I know New Yorkers that have been skiing Vt all winter. I didn't but will now.


----------



## Low Angle Life

SudsNBumps said:


> Back in the day I remembered " Welcome to Vermont Now Go Home" bumper stickers in the Wilmington area. They may still be there but I haven't. I skied Mad River for a dozen years for free thanks to my Vermont boss.


If I called Wilmington home I would most likely be sporting that sticker. The Dover Wilmington stretch of 100 is everything wrong with tourism in the state, outside of Stowe that is.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> Was anyone surprised?
> 
> I'd be surprised if anyone was surprised.


Yogi Harvey strikes again. 
Nice!


----------



## tirolski

witch hobble said:


> Just for context here:
> 
> a) have you guys ever worked in industrialized tourism?
> 
> b) have you ever met Vermonters in person?....away from the internet and it’s unmatched ability to cast aspersions widely.


a) Tried to ski bum at Smuggs once at a ski dorm thingy. Around Thanksgiving busses of college kids were coming in to fill the place. We all quit before they arrived by sending in our resignations by spelling it out in yellow letters in the snow for the folks who owned the place to see and weren’t living up to their promises.

b) See above. It was way before the internet.


----------



## G.ski

witch hobble said:


> Just for context here:
> 
> a) have you guys ever worked in industrialized tourism?
> 
> b) have you ever met Vermonters in person?....away from the internet and it’s unmatched ability to cast aspersions widely.


Not in industrialized tourism but my entire career was spent in foodservice. I get it that the customer is not always right. And that the customer can often act like a tool.

I've met plenty of Vermonters and for the most part they are great folks. Same can be said for anywhere I have visited domestically or internationally. I have also spoken to Vermonters who were rude and disdainful of people from NY. Just like anywhere else I've visited.

I was asked to stay out of VT if I didn't follow rules I don't agree with. I did that. And it turned out to be no great loss. And I'm not expecting VT to do anything to get my business back. Which is probably no great loss to VT. 

As has been mentioned before, it's OK to poke fun at VT in a NY forum.


----------



## Brownski

G.ski said:


> As has been mentioned before, it's OK to poke fun at VT in a NY forum.


Hey- at least it’s not Jersey. Amiright?


----------



## Campgottagopee

Low Angle Life said:


> Add in the fact that Vermonters hate people, particularly flatlanders and I think it all worked out.



I lived in VT for 4 years and didn't find this true. I did get enjoy it when I was called a flatlander as I was quick to inform them the mountains in NY are taller than the ones in VT. That ended that conversation rather quickly.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Vermont gets a bad rap for being unfriendly, but IME most rural areas are the same way. The optimistic locals mostly move to the city for better opportunities, and the ones who stay are worried that newcomers will take their jobs or that second home owners will push up property values to the point that their children can't buy homes. That's definitely true of Upstate NY. Places where there's lots of opportunity are typically the friendliest. NYC is thought of as hostile, but it really is an easy place for newcomers.

mm


----------



## witch hobble

G.ski said:


> Not in industrialized tourism but my entire career was spent in foodservice. I get it that the customer is not always right. And that the customer can often act like a tool.
> 
> I've met plenty of Vermonters and for the most part they are great folks. Same can be said for anywhere I have visited domestically or internationally. I have also spoken to Vermonters who were rude and disdainful of people from NY. Just like anywhere else I've visited.
> 
> I was asked to stay out of VT if I didn't follow rules I don't agree with. I did that. And it turned out to be no great loss. And I'm not expecting VT to do anything to get my business back. Which is probably no great loss to VT.
> 
> As has been mentioned before, it's OK to poke fun at VT in a NY forum.


I’m all about poking fun! But it’s a two way street and there has definitely been some butthurttitude around here when the conversation turns to local v. flatlanders......or license plate colors.

Over here in NH they’re Massholes.....whether from Massachusetts or not.

Very common for front line tourism workers to have general disdain for the customers. Mostly low paid and far removed from the point of sale transaction.

I was a bottom shack lift operator for 2 and a half weeks in 1994. I could not handle it. The general din of the drone of the bullwheel. The confinement. The mostly indifferent 4 second social interactions with guests. I didn’t want to “get used to it”. I made a mad dash for the rental shop when the opportunity presented itself. At least you can walk away from a customer or coworker for a minute. Collect yourself.

If you know a righteous liftie who stays positive, remembers you, does the job well, even when it’s not a beautiful spring day, thank them.


----------



## Low Angle Life

Personally I love Vermonters, ornery bastards, real salt of the folks, especially the ones who wont consider you a "real Vermonter" unless your family goes back four generations in the state. Act 250, billboard laws, and many other aspects of how the state reigns in tourism and development are frankly what keeps me wanting to move back after my five year hiatus. It's a real special place and very unique when comparing it with its neighbors. That said the lack of reliable broadband internet and no real economic base outside of tourism make it a very difficult place to be able to make work financially. Which Hobbles comments about front line tourism workers as well as Milos comments ring very true to me. Regardless, there is no other state I would prefer to raise a family.


----------



## witch hobble

Low Angle Life said:


> Personally I love Vermonters, ornery bastards, real salt of the folks, especially the ones who wont consider you a "real Vermonter" unless your family goes back four generations in the state. Act 250, billboard laws, and many other aspects of how the state reigns in tourism and development are frankly what keeps me wanting to move back after my five year hiatus. It's a real special place and very unique when comparing it with its neighbors. That said the lack of reliable broadband internet and no real economic base outside of tourism make it a very difficult place to be able to make work financially. Which Hobbles comments about front line tourism workers as well as Milos comments ring very true to me. Regardless, there is no other state I would prefer to raise a family.


A 9th generation bovine farmer from Enosburg Falls or somewhere likely sees little to no difference between a guy who spent 4 years at UVM and 3 winters on the Sugarbush ski patrol, and a guy from NY metro who skis in VT 3 weekends a year.





__





Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats: Frank M. Bryan, Bill Mares, Howard Johnson: 9780933050167: Amazon.com: Books


Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats [Frank M. Bryan, Bill Mares, Howard Johnson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats



www.amazon.com





This is a funny book about the dynamic written in 1983, when Ben and Jerry and the Church St Marketplace were still new. Some dated references but the humor remains. My god, he would have had a field day with all the breweries.


----------



## Low Angle Life

witch hobble said:


> A 9th generation bovine farmer from Enosburg Falls or somewhere likely sees little to no difference between a guy who spent 4 years at UVM and 3 winters on the Sugarbush ski patrol, and a guy from NY metro who skis in VT 3 weekends a year.


Had a classmate in my time up there whose family had been raising dairy cows in Alburg before the US Canada boarder existed, really clued me into the dynamic and made me realize how far the Mad River Valley is from being "real Vermont".


----------



## Brownski

I’m gonna take this opportunity to plug ny own tale of back in the day frontline tourism employment








The Old Stop-n-Go


You're on a lift that stops and stops. Did you ever wonder?




nyskiblog.com


----------



## Campgottagopee

witch hobble said:


> Ben and Jerry



2 New Yorkers that became "real" Vermonters


----------



## tirolski

witch hobble said:


> I was a bottom shack lift operator for 2 and a half weeks in 1994. I could not handle it. The general din of the drone of the bullwheel. The confinement. The mostly indifferent 4 second social interactions with guests. I didn’t want to “get used to it”. I made a mad dash for the rental shop when the opportunity presented itself. At least you can walk away from a customer or coworker for a minute. Collect yourself.
> 
> If you know a righteous liftie who stays positive, remembers you, does the job well, even when it’s not a beautiful spring day, thank them.


I said more "thank you" to the lifties this year than all the other years put together. Most every time.


----------



## witch hobble

Campgottagopee said:


> 2 New Yorkers that became "real" Vermonters


In the book, they would fall squarely on the milking goats side of realness. The book skewers all parties, including “real Vermonters” (birthright VTers), but is particularly savage on both hippie-dippy and ‘80s yuppie newcomers.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

witch hobble said:


> Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats: Frank M. Bryan, Bill Mares, Howard Johnson: 9780933050167: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats [Frank M. Bryan, Bill Mares, Howard Johnson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a funny book about the dynamic written in 1983, when Ben and Jerry and the Church St Marketplace were still new. Some dated references but the humor remains. My god, he would have had a field day with all the breweries.


We had that book when I was a kid. The title was a play on "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche." I can't remember what that book was about, though.


----------



## Zykamps

Milo Maltbie said:


> Vermont gets a bad rap for being unfriendly, but IME most rural areas are the same way. The optimistic locals mostly move to the city for better opportunities, and the ones who stay are worried that newcomers will take their jobs or that second home owners will push up property values to the point that their children can't buy homes. That's definitely true of Upstate NY. Places where there's lots of opportunity are typically the friendliest. NYC is thought of as hostile, but it really is an easy place for newcomers.
> 
> mm


I moved to a rural part of NY and if you're not several generations deep your voice doesn't count. People are friendly, helpful, nice and neighborly but getting anything done is near impossible. Assessments, code enforcement, animal control, board meetings, zoning, etc... Good luck.


----------



## Harvey

Coronavirus hits Vermont ski resorts in the pocketbook
					

The COVID-19 pandemic has made the Green Mountains of Vermont a little less green. As of...




					www.timesunion.com
				




Excerpt:

MONTPELIER, Vt. — The COVID-19 pandemic has made the Green Mountains of Vermont a little less green.

As of the end of February, the 2020-21 ski season in Vermont saw a 30 percent overall drop-off in revenue, with losses estimated at $100 million, according to the Vermont Ski Areas Association.

Year-to-year, paid skier visits declined by more than 40 percent, lodging revenues by 60 percent, and food and beverage revenues by 70 percent.


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

I just hate articles like this. 

Yes, Vermont saw a big drop in tourist revenue. They also didn't see a steep rise in Covid related deaths because they did the right thing. Somehow our amazing communal sacrifice and compassion for others is completely ignored and the focus is placed on money.

We saved Nana's life by hard work and selflessness but the CEO of Vail Industries, Inc. is going to have to make do with only two Lear jets this year. The first fact should be the story, not the second.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> I just hate articles like this.
> 
> Yes, Vermont saw a big drop in tourist revenue. They also didn't see a steep rise in Covid related deaths because they did the right thing. Somehow our amazing communal sacrifice and compassion for others is completely ignored and the focus is placed on money.
> 
> We saved Nana's life by hard work and selflessness but the CEO of Vail Industries, Inc. is going to have to make do with only two Lear jets this year. The first fact should be the story, not the second.


Those small business owners who rely on winter tourists may disagree. Lots of people lost their livelihood because VT closes.


----------



## Low Angle Life

Campgottagopee said:


> Those small business owners who rely on winter tourists may disagree. Lots of people lost their livelihood because VT closes.


Those small business owners can move back to NY, NJ, CT and go back to the corporate world they escaped from  .

-Grumpy NJ Resident who couldn't make "the dream" work.


----------



## x10003q

Q*bert Jones IV said:


> I just hate articles like this.
> 
> Yes, Vermont saw a big drop in tourist revenue. They also didn't see a steep rise in Covid related deaths because they did the right thing. Somehow our amazing communal sacrifice and compassion for others is completely ignored and the focus is placed on money.
> 
> We saved Nana's life by hard work and selflessness but the CEO of Vail Industries, Inc. is going to have to make do with only two Lear jets this year. The first fact should be the story, not the second.


The article is reporting important news about the financial state of VT as a result of Covid. Should journalists avoid doing their jobs?


----------



## Harvey

I posted it because it was the first time I've seen estimated numbers.

It was about what I expected to tell the truth.

I was adding no comment about right and wrong. I actually think the VT thing worked out reasonably well considering VTs goals, with some staying away and some ignoring the guidance.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Low Angle Life said:


> Those small business owners can move back to NY, NJ, CT and go back to the corporate world they escaped from  .
> 
> -Grumpy NJ Resident who couldn't make "the dream" work.


Good point
Lol


----------



## trackbiker

Harvey said:


> Coronavirus hits Vermont ski resorts in the pocketbook
> 
> 
> The COVID-19 pandemic has made the Green Mountains of Vermont a little less green. As of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesunion.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Year-to-year, paid skier visits declined by more than 40 percent, lodging revenues by 60 percent, and food and beverage revenues by 70 percent.


I get the lodging and F&B being down significantly. What I don't get is the paid skier visits being down by 40 percent.
I heard about crazy lines and busier than usual weekdays. Is that because the people skiing were skiing on season passes? People who could work remotely moving to their second homes in VT and skiing more including weekdays?
Could it be that some areas like Jay that rely on Canadian skiers were down more and some like Mount Snow were maybe even up on skier visits?


----------



## snoloco

trackbiker said:


> I get the lodging and F&B being down significantly. What I don't get is the paid skier visits being down by 40 percent.
> I heard about crazy lines and busier than usual weekdays. Is that because the people skiing were skiing on season passes? People who could work remotely moving to their second homes in VT and skiing more including weekdays?
> Could it be that some areas like Jay that rely on Canadian skiers were down more and some like Mount Snow were maybe even up on skier visits?


Weekend capacity restrictions and people having more flexibility resulted in much greater numbers on weekdays. I expect that many of those people will be back to weekends next year, but certainly some will not flip back, which will be one of the few good things to come from the pandemic. The ski industry has been trying to increase weekday visits for decades.


----------



## witch hobble

Over where I ski, upside down VT, we had some “crazy lines” on a few days during January (skiing was awesome, who can blame them?) but it was largely due to reduced lift capacity, so lines appeared long due to lots of singles and doubles being loaded on quad chairs. No singles line. At Cannon they did not run the tram at all this year, which spreads people around, and transports people from the base of one good pod to the summit of the mountain without having to cycle through the main base area. So logistics were different and created some “peak time” crowding.

Side note: didn’t really miss the lodge much this year. Did actually miss chairlift mingling. I ski solo midweek a decent amount. There is the occasional cringey interaction, but I often enjoy chatting up fellow skiers on the lift. I can count on one hand the number of people I rode a lift with this year.


----------



## snoloco

I can't speak for Cannon, but while there were some lifts where the lines were much longer, this was the exception, rather than the norm. The extra spacing made lines look longer than they really were, and if the queue was full to the same amount, you probably waited the same amount of time.

I'm going to use Killington's bubble chair as an example. It has a front row style queue with a staff member up front directing people when to come out. In normal times, there were 6 lines for groups, plus two singles lines. This year, they had the same 6 group lines with spacing between, but only 1 singles line.

In normal times, if there were repeated 2's and 3's, they'd move up and make their own larger groups. This year, they stayed apart as their own groups. If the line was back to the end of the queue, there were the same number of groups in front of you as there would've been in previous years. It's just that those groups were smaller. The waiting time however would've been the same.

I noticed that gondolas, and lifts that function as overflow to gondolas tended to have the biggest increase in waiting times. This was due to the fact that gondola capacity was so extremely limited with cabins built for 8 sometimes going up with just 1, making the lines longer. People would seek the alternate lift either because the line was too long, or because they didn't want to take the gondola at all due to covid concerns. The most extreme case of this was Gore's Adirondack Express, but there were certainly others.


----------



## Harvey

trackbiker said:


> What I don't get is the paid skier visits being down by 40 percent.



I don't think this was true in NY. I guess we will see.


----------



## tirolski

My guess is close to normal for NY skier visits. Definitely busier midweek. Ski Club trips on buses were most likely non existent though, so there’s that.


----------



## sig

Harvey said:


> Attn @sig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vail Resorts Visits Strong, But Revenues Decline
> 
> 
> SAM Magazine—Broomfield, Colo., Mar. 15, 2021—Vail Resorts (VR) saw year-over-year business levels improve during January and February, with season-to-date
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saminfo.com


interesting to see revenue stream impact beyond ticket sales. Lessons, $9 beers and food really add up. Weather and the holiday periods really affect the bottom line. Nothing new there. No doubt this was the year to be a season pass holder. Like we saw on golf courses last year, midweek visits were up. This really does not work for me and cramps my style. I am really not built for a pandemic. Closing of bars and people crowding my style on the golf courses and ski resorts during the week. Hopefully this is behind us.


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> Definitely busier midweek



I haven't seen GP's midweek parking clear out to the Stavlos in years. Fogetabout the weekend crowds -- yikes!


----------



## tirolski

sig said:


> interesting to see revenue stream impact beyond ticket sales...No doubt this was the year to be a season pass holder. Like we saw on golf courses last year, midweek visits were up. This really does not work for me and cramps my style... Closing of bars and people crowding my style on the golf courses and ski resorts during the week.


Golf course has record number of members this year and still has a waiting list, even with an initiation fee and with plenty other courses around. Place was busy last Friday & Saturday but we still played in 4 hours. Haven’t been inside the clubhouse yet, other than the pro shop, as the patio/porch is a nice place for a pint and sammich.


----------



## witch hobble

snoloco said:


> I can't speak for Cannon, but while there were some lifts where the lines were much longer, this was the exception, rather than the norm. The extra spacing made lines look longer than they really were, and if the queue was full to the same amount, you probably waited the same amount of time.
> 
> I'm going to use Killington's bubble chair as an example. It has a front row style queue with a staff member up front directing people when to come out. In normal times, there were 6 lines for groups, plus two singles lines. This year, they had the same 6 group lines with spacing between, but only 1 singles line.
> 
> In normal times, if there were repeated 2's and 3's, they'd move up and make their own larger groups. This year, they stayed apart as their own groups. If the line was back to the end of the queue, there were the same number of groups in front of you as there would've been in previous years. It's just that those groups were smaller. The waiting time however would've been the same.
> 
> I noticed that gondolas, and lifts that function as overflow to gondolas tended to have the biggest increase in waiting times. This was due to the fact that gondola capacity was so extremely limited with cabins built for 8 sometimes going up with just 1, making the lines longer. People would seek the alternate lift either because the line was too long, or because they didn't want to take the gondola at all due to covid concerns. The most extreme case of this was Gore's Adirondack Express, but there were certainly others.


I think we’re saying the same thing sno.
There was a day at Cannon where the line for the Peabody Express (main base area lift) was out the corrals, across the base area, and down the steps to the parking lot. Everyone just really spread out, but probably on par total customer wise as just a full corral of 4 loads with a long singles line.

I also think that, without the need to combine groups, there wasn’t as much need for an operator to work the crowd this year, and they were probably hesitant to. Also my guess is like a lot of low paying service jobs, there was some understaffing.


----------



## snoloco

In your case, it sounds like they oversold tickets, or more passholders showed up than expected. Outside of Vail, Killington was the only resort in the Northeast that had a system in place that could limit their own passholders (that has since been discontinued). Everyone else simply projected passholder visits, and sold day tickets up to their capacity limit. Obviously that's an imperfect system, but most resorts went that route to eliminate the possibility of any passholders being shut out. There were a few days at Gore when they were way off in either direction, and the mountain ended up being totally empty, or totally packed. Judging by the parking lot, they never got as many people as they would on a holiday weekend in a normal year. The probably maxed out at 75% of what their theoretical capacity is, which has always been limited by parking.


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> I can't speak for Cannon, but while there were some lifts where the lines were much longer, this was the exception, rather than the norm.


Info about New Hampshire’s ski season and a bit about Cannon.








						Ridership was up, but guests at ski resorts this year spent more time outside, crimping food sales
					

FRANCONIA — Some New Hampshire ski areas say the 2020-21 season was not so bad, but they would have preferred something other than the coronavirus as a backdrop.




					www.unionleader.com


----------



## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> Hey- at least it’s not Jersey. Amiright?


Don’t talk bad about loco’s home state.


----------



## tirolski

Whitefish’s numbers are in and up.








						A Banner Year on Big Mountain - Flathead Beacon
					

As Whitefish Mountain Resort prepares to close the books on its first full winter season since 2019, it has already shattered seasonal visitation records by at least 20%, reporting a banner year despite operating within the constraints of a global pandemic and with considerably less snowfall...



					flatheadbeacon.com


----------



## MiSkier

I know Mt Holly a small hill just outside of Detroit had the best ticket sales in over 20 years, over 100,000 tickets sold, with lots of new old people who have rediscovered skiing. Also their season was close to a month late to get started and ended two weeks sooner than normal.


----------



## Harvey

Vermont ski resorts lost roughly $100 million this winter
					

The Vermont Ski Areas Association says Vermont ski resorts lost an estimated $100 million this winter during the pandemic



					www.boston.com


----------



## idratherbskiing

Harvey said:


> Vermont ski resorts lost roughly $100 million this winter
> 
> 
> The Vermont Ski Areas Association says Vermont ski resorts lost an estimated $100 million this winter during the pandemic
> 
> 
> 
> www.boston.com


im curious to see the real estate numbers though, all the browsing I did 2 years ago there was always something available, now the inventory is low and priced super high. friends got into a bidding war for a 3 bedroom in Waterbury that went for 30% over asking.


----------



## Harvey

I don't get that. You have to move immediately? You can't wait for things to cool down?

Do experts think there is no turning back on prices? Materials are through the roof too. I'm hoping they settle down when we go to build in 3 years.


----------



## witch hobble

Harvey said:


> I don't get that. You have to move immediately? You can't wait for things to cool down?
> 
> Do experts think there is no turning back on prices? Materials are through the roof too. I'm hoping they settle down when we go to build in 3 years.


A lot of these people have wanted to move to a more “lifestyle” oriented location for years, but were tied to their job’s location. “WFH” has exploded in the last year and has no doubt changed how lots of jobs will be done permanently. 

They often are coming from a location where the prices are already so high that the newly inflated listing prices in Mountainsburg don’t intimidate them.

All bubbles burst eventually.


----------



## Harvey

We're seeing that in the Adk too. I'm told we are "this close" to having broadband on our road. That would be a key piece of infrastructure, to help those economies move forward.


----------



## jasonwx

Harvey said:


> We're seeing that in the Adk too. I'm told we are "this close" to having broadband on our road. That would be a key piece of infrastructure, to help those economies move forward.


I was listening to a so called expert. He said that this is not a bubble and prices will not be going down. Who really knows ?


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> We're seeing that in the Adk too. I'm told we are "this close" to having broadband on our road. That would be a key piece of infrastructure, to help those economies move forward.



I'm so teeter totter on this. I can finally get the IntrAwebZ at my house. I've actually had the phone in my hand to call and sign up 3 times, but have hung up every time. I just don't want it at home, don't need it, don't feel I'd use it, but understand that it would help some be able to work from home.


----------



## x10003q

If you have a child/children in a k-12 system and you just spent the year remote in the mountains in that system- are you really going to pull your kids out of your flatlands school/friends/sports/dance/etc. and put them in a new school system that might not match what is available in the flatlands? 

What about your career? Working remote within commuting distance is very different from being 3 hours from your employer. I get the sense that employers are looking at a hybrid office/WFH set-up.

What about your home? Do you have enough space to dedicate to your employer for free? My wife has been working with a 2 screen setup in the dining room for over a year now while having zoom meetings 6-8 hours per day. We have not been able to use our dining room (and that extends to the first floor during work hours) for a year and it makes it difficult for me to WFH. I have been taking calls on the driveway or in the car. 

There will be a larger percentage of people WFH going forward, but there are lots of people living in apartments and small houses that really can make WFH difficult. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.


----------



## wonderpony

Campgottagopee said:


> I'm so teeter totter on this. I can finally get the IntrAwebZ at my house. I've actually had the phone in my hand to call and sign up 3 times, but have hung up every time. I just don't want it at home, don't need it, don't feel I'd use it, but understand that it would help some be able to work from home.


I have DSL from Frontier. It's about thirty bucks a month. It's good enough for me. I can check the weather, email and even watch Netflix.

When high speed came through, I refused to pay more for better internet. But, it's only me. If my son is here and on his phone at the same time, then my connection tanks.


----------



## Harvey

wonderpony said:


> I have DSL from Frontier.



Me too (in the Adk). But it's $50 a month and I have to ask my daughter to stop streaming or playing her game if I want to send an email.

SLIC is coming in with Broadband and it is also $50 a month. And you can reach SLIC with a phone call. An actual human.

Count me in.


----------



## Harvey

x10003q said:


> If you have a child/children in a k-12 system and you just spent the year remote in the mountains in that system- are you really going to pull your kids out of your flatlands school/friends/sports/dance/etc. and put them in a new school system that might not match what is available in the flatlands?
> 
> What about your career? Working remote within commuting distance is very different from being 3 hours from your employer. I get the sense that employers are looking at a hybrid office/WFH set-up.
> 
> What about your home? Do you have enough space to dedicate to your employer for free? My wife has been working with a 2 screen setup in the dining room for over a year now while having zoom meetings 6-8 hours per day. We have not been able to use our dining room (and that extends to the first floor during work hours) for a year and it makes it difficult for me to WFH. I have been taking calls on the driveway or in the car.
> 
> There will be a larger percentage of people WFH going forward, but there are lots of people living in apartments and small houses that really can make WFH difficult. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.



I just got off an hour long call about this. We want to bring people back and many don't want to come back.

Be interesting to see how many quit when we ask them to come back.

I go in every day and I miss having people in the office. I really like going to the office.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> I have DSL from Frontier. It's about thirty bucks a month. It's good enough for me. I can check the weather, email and even watch Netflix.
> 
> When high speed came through, I refused to pay more for better internet. But, it's only me. If my son is here and on his phone at the same time, then my connection tanks.


I'm in some kind of black hole or something. The only provider available to me is Spectrum, and that's only because they just ran the cable up our road. I'm certain I'll get it, I'm being stubborn about it though.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I go in every day and I miss having people in the office. I really like going to the office.


Same.
I need a place to go. I like the routine of it.


----------



## sig

jasonwx said:


> I was listening to a so called expert. He said that this is not a bubble and prices will not be going down. Who really knows ?


sure looks like a bubble. if you buy and hold for 10 years things usually work in your favor.


----------



## Warp daddy

wonderpony said:


> I have DSL from Frontier. It's about thirty bucks a month. It's good enough for me. I can check the weather, email and even watch Netflix.
> 
> When high speed came through, I refused to pay more for better internet. But, it's only me. If my son is here and on his phone at the same time, then my connection tanks.


We too have DSL for similar reasons . Its Verizon cheaper than Spectrum and handles our needs email , text ,Netflix and Hulu


----------



## Green light

Harvey said:


> Me too (in the Adk). But it's $50 a month and I have to ask my daughter to stop streaming or playing her game if I want to send an email.
> 
> SLIC is coming in with Broadband and it is also $50 a month. And you can reach SLIC with a phone call. An actual human.
> 
> Count me in.


Slic....just like their name. They bought out gore mountain cable in north creek. Was paying $27 a month for basic cable. Next month it was $40 a month. Fuck them. We are only there on weekends. Now I listen to Sirius.


----------



## Harvey

Green light said:


> Slic....just like their name. They bought out gore mountain cable in north creek. Was paying $27 a month for basic cable. Next month it was $40 a month. Fuck them. We are only there on weekends. Now I listen to Sirius.



Who are you using for internet? 

I'd kill for $27 or $40 cable down here. Internet, phone and cable is bundled for $200. And they don't really let you un bundle. Who needs phone? Not me. Remove phone from the plan? Price is still $200.


----------



## wonderpony

Harvey said:


> Who are you using for internet?
> 
> I'd kill for $27 or $40 cable down here. Internet, phone and cable is bundled for $200. And they don't really let you un bundle. Who needs phone? Not me. Remove phone from the plan? Price is still $200.


No phone. No cable. I had a dish or two for a while. Once my son was towards the end of HS, we weren't watching TV, so I cancelled that. Now, my TV and the ancient ps3 that I stream with will stay unplugged for weeks.


----------



## sig

i cut the cord 3-4 years ago. very liberating. put $20 antennas on all the tv's for local news stations. got high speed internet through Verizon, sling tv(for yankee games) and netflixs. all in was about $105/mo. Spectrum harassed me for years to come back. finally they offered high speed and cable for $85/mo. I have no cable boxes and stream cable through roku sticks. all was good until last month when my bill jumped to $130. just waiting for a good offer from Verizon and i will tell spectrum to go screw again.


----------



## CNY Skier

Cut the cord last December and yes, the $20 antenna works just fine! PBS "Create" channel is the bomb! That and $60/mo. internet service. Discovered that the library system is amazing and have been engulfed in many classic works of literature. This "pandemic" has taught me that I really don't need that much after all. Mask...a total of ten times in the last year...only b/c I had dinner with my wife and didn't want to cause a scene. Fortunately my business (construction related) is one where mask wearing is shunned. Shopping? Um, no - can get everything online. Skiing, why yes - went to VT and stayed in an AirBNB several times...owner was more than happy to take my money. Vaccine - HELL NO. My 57 years of natural immunity has served me well. Vitamin C, D and Zinc are the only vaccine that I need.


----------



## Green light

We just use the place on weekends. No internet, no cable, just cell phone. Will be putting up an antenna on the roof this summer to see what free air tv is available. I am retiring this year. That was a $500/year savings plus I cancelled our land line at home, another $400/year.


----------



## tirolski

witch hobble said:


> A lot of these people have wanted to move to a more “lifestyle” oriented location for years, but were tied to their job’s location. “WFH” has exploded in the last year and has no doubt changed how lots of jobs will be done permanently.
> They often are coming from a location where the prices are already so high that the newly inflated listing prices in Mountainsburg don’t intimidate them.
> 
> All bubbles burst eventually.


The Haudenosaunee Confederacy Chiefs Council in Canada ain’t happy with developments near the river. 








Confederacy chiefs declare moratorium on development


The Haudenosaunee Confederacy Chiefs Council on Tuesday announced a moratorium on development in the Haldimand Tract — an area along both sides of the Grand…




www.stratfordbeaconherald.com


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Despite reported losses in Vermont, Vail Co. profited over $600 million


Vail Resorts, Inc. updated their financial guidance on April 22, reporting that they were projecting an operating profit (EBITDA) of between $636 million and $650 million and a net income




www.compassvermont.com


----------



## MarzNC

The southeast had a banner year for assorted reasons. Primarily because Mother Nature was very helpful so the enhanced snowmaking put in the place the last few years meant that bases were very deep early on. Not having a major thaw in January was a welcome surprise. Of course, the approaches taken in VA, NC, WV, and TN towards dealing with the pandemic was also a major factor. While being farther south means a shorter season, it also means that it's not frigid that often. There were clearly people who decided to give skiing/boarding a try since they could drive for an outdoor activity and didn't necessarily need to invest in "ski clothes."

Only three very small hills (App, Wolf Creek, Homestead) didn't have more skier visits than usual.









Cheers to the Last Day of the 2020-2021 Ski & Snowboarding Season


Sugar Mountain Resort and Snowshoe Mountain Resort were the lone ski areas still open on Sunday. They both stopped their lifts shortly after 4:30pm Sunday, signaling the official end to...




www.skisoutheast.com





" . . .​_But Let’s Finish Nicely…_​​_I’ve spoken with numerous resort managers and presidents, including Winterplace Resort, President, Terry Pfeiffer who shared, “Mike, we have learned so much during this past season that we ended up putting things in place probably five-to-ten years before we would have otherwise – that we will keep in place for seasons to come.”_​​_What that meant was that doing ski lessons bookings in advance – AND even lift ticket purchases in advance might be here to stay for many ski resorts going forward – with or without the influence of any kind of covid-related impetus._​​_If you think about it, most often you can’t get on a golf course without a tee time. By knowing how many people are coming in advance, ski resorts can better manage rental equipment and even team resources to know in advance whether they need more people for ski school etc._​​_We’ll see how things go this summer and fall in terms of tourism. Every bit of intel that I am hearing says that this summer will be yet another record breaker for our mountain communities._​. . ."​


----------



## TomCat

I cut the cord a few years ago. Verizon internet (Jersey) and youtube TV. Up north, I use apple air play to send YouTube TV from my phone to the TV. YouTube let’s you set the quality on your phone so I don’t run out of data.
I had frontier DSL which worked well for two years. Then something happened and service was horrible during peak times.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> The southeast had a *banner year* for assorted reasons.
> _I’ve spoken with numerous resort managers and presidents,...ended up putting things in place probably five-to-ten years before we would have otherwise – that we will keep in place for seasons to come.”_​_What that meant was that doing ski lessons bookings in advance – AND even lift ticket purchases in advance might be here to stay for many ski resorts going forward – with or without the influence of any kind of covid-related impetus._​_*If you think about it, most often you can’t get on a golf course without a tee time. By knowing how many people are coming in advance, ski resorts can better manage rental equipment and even team resources to know in advance whether they need more people for ski school etc.*_​_Every bit of intel that I am hearing says that this summer will be yet *another record breaker* for our mountain communities._​


Said this a bit ago in the Passes for 20-21 thread:

_Golf *set recent records* for rounds played this season even dealing with Covid restrictions. 
*Courses use tee times allowing for controlled access. *
Have ski mountains thought of (or implemented) a similar access system for managing masses? _


----------



## XTski

tirolski said:


> Said this a bit ago in the Passes for 20-21 thread:
> 
> _Golf *set recent records* for rounds played this season even dealing with Covid restrictions.
> *Courses use tee times allowing for controlled access. *
> Have ski mountains thought of (or implemented) a similar access system for managing masses? _


the guy at southeast ski said the weather was not as crazy great as many perceived?. WTF who the hell thought they had a crazy great year? They had big snowfall deficits, I wish I could have a sit down with the guy that runs that site and set him straight on integrity, amazing that people fall for such garbage, , that is a site geared to generate people on slopes for ski areas bye kissing up to ski areas, that’s why NYskiblog is so good, record numbers from the overcrowding vail brought to the area along with snowshoe selling out


----------



## x10003q

tirolski said:


> Said this a bit ago in the Passes for 20-21 thread:
> 
> _Golf *set recent records* for rounds played this season even dealing with Covid restrictions.
> *Courses use tee times allowing for controlled access. *
> Have ski mountains thought of (or implemented) a similar access system for managing masses? _


Thanks for highlighting the golf comparison. It is a delusional comparison. A golf course might see a couple hundred rounds per day at best spread over an average 18 hole course at 150 acres. There is a limit of how long golfers are on the course. A small ski area like Plattekill might see a couple thousand skiers per day, on a similar acreage, and the only limit is when the lifts turn on and off. 
Maybe ski areas should to go back to charging per ride.


----------



## XTski

x10003q said:


> Thanks for highlighting the golf comparison. It is a delusional comparison. A golf course might see a couple hundred rounds per day at best spread over an average 18 hole course at 150 acres. There is a limit of how long golfers are on the course. A small ski area like Plattekill might see a couple thousand skiers per day, on a similar acreage, and the only limit is when the lifts turn on and off.
> Maybe ski areas should to go back to charging per ride.


Thanks X , the golf comparison is not even close, that website is commercial trash


----------



## tirolski

Agree golfers and skiers have different access needs and wants.
Point being is what's best to manage crowds during a pandemic.
Ski-ticket restrictions were put in place in NY at some places on some days this year to try to limit overcrowding.


----------



## XTski

tirolski said:


> Agree golfers and skiers have different access needs and wants.
> Point being is what's best to manage crowds during a pandemic.
> Ski-ticket restrictions were put in place in NY at some places on some days this year to try to limit overcrowding.


Good point


----------



## Harvey

XTski said:


> the guy at southeast ski said the weather was not as crazy great as many perceived?. WTF who the hell thought they had a crazy great year? They had big snowfall deficits, I wish I could have a sit down with the guy that runs that site and set him straight on integrity, amazing that people fall for such garbage, that is a site geared to generate people on slopes for ski areas bye kissing up to ski areas, that’s why NYskiblog is so good, record numbers from the overcrowding vail brought to the area along with snowshoe selling out



Thanks for the props man, but not sure I get all this. We've established you don't like DCSki and I guess here is another? I've certainly been called a ski area suckup plenty of times, I guess it's just not an official arrangement. Let it go man, life it too short.


----------



## Jon951

Harvey said:


> I don't get that. You have to move immediately? You can't wait for things to cool down?
> 
> Do experts think there is no turning back on prices? Materials are through the roof too. I'm hoping they settle down when we go to build in 3 years.


Material prices are ridiculous and shortages of certain materials are another painful situation to deal with. Fortunately, I have 90% of what I need to complete my project. I feel for those who are just starting out or even worse, mid-stream on their projects in need of the balance of materials to complete their build..


----------



## Harvey

I'm optimistic, or maybe hopeful is a better word, that in two years those material prices will be back to normal. If not we'll have to rethink everything.

Where are you building @Jon951 ?


----------



## Jon951

LP and it has been a challenge but everything is under control now thanks to those who I have identified and willing to understand my position on how I expect nothing less than the application of ethics and a reasonable level of skilled work applied to my project. I prob sound like the most anal project/micro manager, however, I am not and probably one of the most reasonable customers to deal and work with. 
As a former boss used to say to those of choice, "Just do your f'ing job". 
Not knocking the workforce in the North Country...there's good and bad everywhere (esp in my state of primary residence). I electrical contracted in the state of NJ for 16 years...kinda have an idea of whats right and wrong when it comes to constructing a residential build. It's not rocket science and if one choses to cut corners, they should be caled out on it. Of course this leads to lots of friction and accusation of micro-management. My take is...well, it's too freakin bad...I'm paying for this, not looking for perfection, and if you are going to completely miss the mark in terms of performance and utilization of materials, then you deserve to get a ration of crap about it. And the claims of "we do things differently up her" is complete bs as cutting corners as demonstrated only exasperated the need for remediation of a host of issues due to corner cutting. The saving grace of my project was I cut bait wile the framing was still exposed and I could see the "bones" of the place and know exactly what needed attention. Unfortunately, I did not sign up to become the GC, however, in the end it will certainly work out better this way. Bottom line: pick and choose one's contractor caerfully. Do the due dilligence required to vet the pool of contractor's to choose from before making the choice to hire one. In my case this actually backfired out of the gate, but as I mentioned, ultimately I will have a better product. I also made a number of friends in the trades as I moved on and found the people who understood how to perform and put in a respectable day's work which was also a huge plus because I know I can count on them in the future if the need arises.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Jon951 said:


> Bottom line: pick and choose one's contractor caerfully.



For the truly good ones you'll wait at least a year, if not two, to get them. Plus they don't even advertise, it's all word of mouth. My BIL is a builder in the Northville area who specializes in timber homes. He's currently 2 years out. No website, no yellow page add, he used to have a FB page but now he can't even be bothered to do that.


----------



## sig

Campgottagopee said:


> For the truly good ones you'll wait at least a year, if not two, to get them. Plus they don't even advertise, it's all word of mouth. My BIL is a builder in the Northville area who specializes in timber homes. He's currently 2 years out. No website, no yellow page add, he used to have a FB page but now he can't even be bothered to do that.


i have good luck with guys who work full time in the commercial construction business. they are hustlers and will work nights and weekends for cash. Sheetrockes, tappers, electricians, hvac, etc. they like cash to support hobbies and what not


----------



## Jon951

Campgottagopee said:


> For the truly good ones you'll wait at least a year, if not two, to get them. Plus they don't even advertise, it's all word of mouth. My BIL is a builder in the Northville area who specializes in timber homes. He's currently 2 years out. No website, no yellow page add, he used to have a FB page but now he can't even be bothered to do that.


Word of mouth = best advertising...no doub't about it.


----------



## Campgottagopee

sig said:


> i have good luck with guys who work full time in the commercial construction business. they are hustlers and will work nights and weekends for cash. Sheetrockes, tappers, electricians, hvac, etc. they like cash to support hobbies and what not


For sure
The builder I have used for my house got his start in commercial building. He's really something in that there isn't something he doesn't do himself. Hard part is getting on his schedule, he always says, you're on the top of the list just not sure which page you're on.....lol


----------



## tirolski

Jon951 said:


> Word of mouth = best advertising...no doub't about it.


It ain’t what ya know it’s who ya know.
It’s good to know more too.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> For the truly good ones you'll wait at least a year, if not two, to get them. Plus they don't even advertise, it's all word of mouth. My BIL is a builder in the Northville area who specializes in timber homes. He's currently 2 years out. No website, no yellow page add, he used to have a FB page but now he can't even be bothered to do that.


What the f is a yellow page? Jk ?....I member.

good problem to have. I bet he’s raking it in and pretty stoked to have some fairly long term security


----------



## Harvey

Probably too far for me to use him.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Probably too far for me to use him.



I thought you already had a builder you're happy with?


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> good problem to have. I bet he’s raking it in and pretty stoked to have some fairly long term security



He does pretty good for himself. The guy can build anything, and he does, but he's carved out a niche for himself with timber frames. It's not like he's putting up kits either. Logs get dropped off and then he mills his own timber frames, quite impressive.

Here's is FB page. Hasn't been updated in a couple years but you'll get a sense of what his love is.






						登录 Facebook
					

登录 Facebook，与好友、家人和认识的人分享和建立联系。




					www.facebook.com


----------



## Harvey

Campgottagopee said:


> I thought you already had a builder you're happy with?



I haven't used him to build anything. He plows for me and had good repeat business, so he is probably decent. He does try to talk me out of things that I want. That could be good or bad, not sure.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> He does try to talk me out of things that I want. That could be good or bad, not sure.


Ethical skepticism is good.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I haven't used him to build anything. He plows for me and had good repeat business, so he is probably decent. He does try to talk me out of things that I want. That could be good or bad, not sure.



You aren't too far for my BIL. I spoke to him about you're build when you first mentioned it. He said to reach out to him a good year or so prior to you wanting to do something. His phone# is on that FB link I posted iffin you ever want to give him a call.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> He does pretty good for himself. The guy can build anything, and he does, but he's carved out a niche for himself with timber frames. It's not like he's putting up kits either. Logs get dropped off and then he mills his own timber frames, quite impressive.
> 
> Here's is FB page. Hasn't been updated in a couple years but you'll get a sense of what his love is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 登录 Facebook
> 
> 
> 登录 Facebook，与好友、家人和认识的人分享和建立联系。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


Damn, that’s beautiful work.


----------



## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> Damn, that’s beautiful work.



Agree. Would love to know, what his approx cost per sq foot was in 2019.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Agree. Would love to know, what his approx cost per sq foot was in 2019.


A lot has to do with where the timber comes from. Shipping from Oregon, for example, gets pricy.


----------



## tirolski

There should be no shortage of logs in the Daks, Camp, or in CNY. Just sayin.


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> There should be no shortage of logs in the Daks, Camp, or in CNY. Just sayin.


Something about the timber from Oregon, not sure exactly what tho. Ultimately it's up to the owner where the timber comes from.


----------



## x10003q

First - in 2017 - Trump added up to 24% tarrifs on softwood lumber from Canada




__





StackPath






www.industryweek.com




Second - Covid shut down mills and lumbering creating bigger shortages
Third - we got screwed


----------



## NYSkiBlog

With Vermont under quarantine, N.Y. skiers stayed close to home


While neighboring Vermont took a hit with the state’s strict pandemic quarantine rules...




www.timesunion.com


----------



## tirolski

NYSkiBlog said:


> With Vermont under quarantine, N.Y. skiers stayed close to home
> 
> 
> While neighboring Vermont took a hit with the state’s strict pandemic quarantine rules...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesunion.com


Paywalled...


----------



## Harvey

I guess they don't even give you one free one. Somehow I read it the other day. 

Basically was saying NY and Mass were up, VT was down. Not a big surprise.


----------



## MarzNC

Here's a report about how things went in NH. Increased numbers midweek made a big difference, as it did in all regions.

_" . . ._​_Based on reports from several members, Keeler said ridership was up over last season._​​_“We had actually reached skier visit numbers just over last year’s when we came to that third week in March when everyone shut down last year,” Keeler said by email._​​_While Ski NH doesn’t track ski area revenues, Keeler said anecdotal information suggests revenue was up for sales of season passes and day tickets, but food and beverage sales were down._​_. . ."_​








Ridership was up, but guests at ski resorts this year spent more time outside, crimping food sales


FRANCONIA — Some New Hampshire ski areas say the 2020-21 season was not so bad, but they would have preferred something other than the coronavirus as a backdrop.




www.unionleader.com


----------



## Jon951

tirolski said:


> It ain’t what ya know it’s who ya know.
> It’s good to know more too.


Well...there's something to say about "it's good to know more".

Knowledge is power, however, it can become a blessing and a curse at the same time.
Good for protection of one's interests, bad if being accused of "knowing everything" (even if one is extremely spun up on the task at hand), which then leads to constant challenging of contractor(s) who blatently suck at what they're doing.
My take on residential construction is the following....it's not like putting a rocket on the moon...it's pretty straight forward and manageable IMHO. As far as newest technologies being introduced, in conjunction with local and national codes (and the products out there supporting them)...it doesn't take genius caliber to sort things out. Any needed information is out there if one puts simple effort into researching any unkowns.


----------



## MarzNC

Old news, but I didn't know that a couple of small hills lost leaders to COVID-19 in 2021. Jim Hass was the first GM for Big SNOW in NJ. He worked at Snowshoe and Intrawest for quite a while during his long career in the ski industry. The quad chair was renamed and dedicated to Hass on April 23. He died in early March. Bruce Anders died in January 2021. He was the President of Ober Gatlinburg in TN. RIP.









Big Snow American Dream GM Jim Haas Dies


SAM Magazine—East Rutherford, N.J., March 8, 2021—Big SNOW American Dream general manager Jim Haas, 70, died Saturday, March 6, due to complications caused




www.saminfo.com


----------



## Tjf1967

MarzNC said:


> Old news, but I didn't know that a couple of small hills lost leaders to COVID-19 in 2021. Jim Hass was the first GM for Big SNOW in NJ. He worked at Snowshoe and Intrawest for quite a while during his long career in the ski industry. The quad chair was renamed and dedicated to Hass on April 23. He died in early March. Bruce Anders died in January 2021. He was the President of Ober Gatlinburg in TN. RIP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Snow American Dream GM Jim Haas Dies
> 
> 
> SAM Magazine—East Rutherford, N.J., March 8, 2021—Big SNOW American Dream general manager Jim Haas, 70, died Saturday, March 6, due to complications caused
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saminfo.com


For what?


----------



## Country Gun

jasonwx said:


> I was listening to a so called expert. He said that this is not a bubble and prices will not be going down. Who really knows ?


What goes up eventually will come back down. Economics


----------



## snoloco

https://liftblog.com/2021/04/30/news-roundup-226/

According to this, ORDA had an excellent year. Skier visits up 14%, revenues up 10% and expenses down 8%. It doesn't surprise me. I believe most of the increase came from midweek, as Gore never filled up their parking lots like they would on the busiest days in a normal year. I also wonder how much is just spillover from Vermont, and how much will actually stick with ORDA. That being said, it's too bad that with such great numbers, they still came up short on the season and missed their target dates. You'd think they would've made some more snow.


----------



## Face4Me

snoloco said:


> That being said, it's too bad that with such great numbers, they still came up short on the season and missed their target dates. You'd think they would've made some more snow.


I'll be the first to criticize ORDA for problems they create themselves, but I won't fault them for this. They had plenty of issues this season, but this was not one of them.

In mid-February, there was plenty of snow and things were looking very good. It's not their goal to be Killington, and stay open as late as possible. The warmer than average and drier (no snow) weather we had in March was atypical. Consider that Greek Peak was advertising that they were going to stay open until May this year, and ultimately, were unable to make that happen.

These are the daily average high, average and low temperatures for Lake Placid from 2010 - 2021:





And the averages don't tell the whole story. Consider this stretch of weather in Lake Placid from March 20 - March 26:





ORDA can control a lot of things, but they can't control the weather. At the end of the day, it IS a business, and you have to make decisions that make sense. In mid-February, when they stopped making snow, there was NO reason to believe that they wouldn't be able to make it to their "normal" mid-April closing date with what they already had.

There's a lot of things to criticize ORDA about, but not making enough snow this year isn't one of them.


----------



## snoloco

Actually, it's a perfectly valid reason to criticize them. Their target date was April 11th. Many resorts made snow in March to ensure they had enough coverage. ORDA did not. At Gore, most trails were superficially thin. It was clear by the end of March they had come up short, but they were able to stretch it to April 10th, with very limited terrain.


----------



## Brownski

Yeah, I see your point Sno, but I think I agree more with Face. They have to make these decisions based on what’s in front of them at that moment. You only know what was right or wrong in hindsight. I don’t remember anybody guaranteeing April 11. It was just a projection.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Whenever NYS is involved I feel it's best to have low expectations.
Expectations = predetermined disappointment


----------



## Ripitz

x10003q said:


> First - in 2017 - Trump added up to 24% tarrifs on softwood lumber from Canada
> 
> 
> StackPath
> 
> 
> Second - Covid shut down mills and lumbering creating bigger shortages
> Third - we got screwed











						How the Pandemic Made Lumber America's Hottest Commodity — The Wall Street Journal
					

Demand for lumber has skyrocketed during the pandemic, sending prices to all-time highs. This video explains what’s driving the lumber boom, who’s profiting, and why those growing the trees aren’t reaping the benefits. Illustration: Liz Ornitz/WSJ




					apple.news


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> How the Pandemic Made Lumber America's Hottest Commodity — The Wall Street Journal
> 
> 
> Demand for lumber has skyrocketed during the pandemic, sending prices to all-time highs. This video explains what’s driving the lumber boom, who’s profiting, and why those growing the trees aren’t reaping the benefits. Illustration: Liz Ornitz/WSJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apple.news


Good video 
Thanks for sharing that 
Farming is a tough business


----------



## Ripitz

Here’s another take on it








						Soaring lumber prices have added $36,000 to the cost of a new home — CNBC
					

As the housing market gets leaner, potential buyers are turning in greater numbers than ever to new construction, but builder costs are soaring.




					apple.news


----------



## snoloco

One must wonder how were their expenses down 8%. It seems like they cut back on snowmaking. Whiteface never made snow on Hoyt's or Lookout Below and left Skyward super thin. Gore left most of their trails superficially thin as well. 

When there was that cold stretch in March, they had the chance to make more snow and build up their base depths to ensure reaching their target date. About a dozen resorts in the Northeast did. Given that in the 8 weeks in January and February without any melting, they didn't do much resurfacing if any, I would have to think there was enough money in the budget.

It should be noted that the 8 weeks of no melting tricked them. The snowpack was not as dense as it normally would be, which made it less resistant to those 65 degree days. Either way, the fact remains that they came up short on the season, and should have made more snow if they wanted to meet their target dates. You'd think they would be serious about it, given that the season dates were posted before the season even started, like Vail does.

The density thing is so important that Killington will have a hard time making it past May 16. Not having that world cup ice layer is a problem. Both times they made June in the modern era were World Cup years.


----------



## XTski

snoloco said:


> One must wonder how were their expenses down 8%. It seems like they cut back on snowmaking. Whiteface never made snow on Hoyt's or Lookout Below and left Skyward super thin. Gore left most of their trails superficially thin as well.
> 
> When there was that cold stretch in March, they had the chance to make more snow and build up their base depths to ensure reaching their target date. About a dozen resorts in the Northeast did. Given that in the 8 weeks in January and February without any melting, they didn't do much resurfacing if any, I would have to think there was enough money in the budget.
> 
> It should be noted that the 8 weeks of no melting tricked them. The snowpack was not as dense as it normally would be, which made it less resistant to those 65 degree days. Either way, the fact remains that they came up short on the season, and should have made more snow if they wanted to meet their target dates. You'd think they would be serious about it, given that the season dates were posted before the season even started, like Vail does.
> 
> The density thing is so important that Killington will have a hard time making it past May 16. Not having that world cup ice layer is a problem. Both times they made June in the modern era were World Cup years.


Sounds about right for Superstar, they didn’t make the heavy wetter snow early season prepping for the world cup, instead we enjoyed some sweet powder blown during the super cold part of the season, that might also cause bigger bumps this spring vs the ice machine base normally there in the spring , making more surface areas to melt quicker


----------



## Harvey

I'm guessing the reduction in expenses are less snowmaking and also lower total employment.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> Actually, it's a perfectly valid reason to criticize them. Their target date was April 11th. Many resorts made snow in March to ensure they had enough coverage. ORDA did not. At Gore, most trails were superficially thin. It was clear by the end of March they had come up short, but they were able to stretch it to April 10th, with very limited terrain.


April 10 was not that limited, and there was plenty of room for the small croud. Lies, Lower Darby, Hulabaloo and Sleeping Bear were all open and skied pretty well. We ducked the rope on Upper Chatiemac and that was better than Hawkeye, which was open also. The worst spot was the river that formed on upper Cloud, which wouldn't have been an issue if they hadn't extended the lift this year. The lower mountain closed early but downloading the quad worked fine. They should make that an annual event, hire a band and have a party at the saddle.

mm


----------



## snoloco

Ah, blaming it on the new lift again. Seriously, get over it, or the next 40 years are going to be miserable for you. This goes for any eastern resort, that if you need to download, I would consider it limited.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> Seriously, get over it, or the next 40 years are going to be miserable for you.


I don't think many on this blog have 40 years left. Myself included.


----------



## Benny Profane

Ha.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

Face4Me said:


> I'll be the first to criticize ORDA for problems they create themselves, but I won't fault them for this. They had plenty of issues this season, but this was not one of them.


I agree with Face on this, but for different reasons. I'm surprised anyone had a full season, and many I know thought the same way. If I were a ski area owner, I would have been very, very nervous about over-committing resources only to be shut down.
Now ORDA is a bit different because, despite their best efforts sometimes, they are unable to go belly-up. However, they could look like fools with taxpayer money if they went all-out only to be shut down.


----------



## Campgottagopee

D.B. Cooper said:


> I'm surprised anyone had a full season, and many I know thought the same way.


Same here

I rolled my pass to this year for the reason you just mentioned


----------



## Kingslug

Skied with a guy who was 95 once..


----------



## Kingslug

World’s oldest skier hits the slopes aged 102
					






					www.fis-ski.com


----------



## Peter Minde

snoloco said:


> https://liftblog.com/2021/04/30/news-roundup-226/
> 
> According to this, ORDA had an excellent year. Skier visits up 14%, revenues up 10% and expenses down 8%. It doesn't surprise me. I believe most of the increase came from midweek, as Gore never filled up their parking lots like they would on the busiest days in a normal year. I also wonder how much is just spillover from Vermont, and how much will actually stick with ORDA. That being said, it's too bad that with such great numbers, they still came up short on the season and missed their target dates. You'd think they would've made some more snow.


Mount van Ho some time after Thanksgiving. December 1? But they stayed open as long as Whiteface did. I'm not complaining.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

At this point, 40 years would be about 4 overtime quarters for me.

mm


----------



## marcski

Kingslug said:


> World’s oldest skier hits the slopes aged 102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fis-ski.com


Question is, did he get out again this season at 103?


----------



## Benny Profane

Kingslug said:


> Skied with a guy who was 95 once..


He was 95 for a year.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Benny Profane said:


> He was 95 for a year.


If he was lucky. Freddie Anderson is 100 now but she quit skiing at 95.

mm


----------



## tirolski

D.B. Cooper said:


> I'm surprised anyone had a full season, and many I know thought the same way. If I were a ski area owner, I would have been very, very nervous about over-committing resources only to be shut down.
> Now ORDA is a bit different because, despite their best efforts sometimes, they are unable to go belly-up. However, they could look like fools with taxpayer money if they went all-out only to be shut down.


Weather can be unpredictable.
Snow was still sitting pretty till the weekend after St. Patty’s day.
March 2021 North Creek actual vs ave temps.



April 2021.



Snow went downhill fast without a lot of chances to make some more especially early April.
Helps to explain why Gore’s arena area and lower mountain trails got toasted.


----------



## Kingslug

Benny Profane said:


> He was 95 for a year.


And that was the year he gave it up.


----------



## MarzNC

Anyone going to be around Colorado this weekend? ABasin partnered with Summit County Public Health and is offering walk-in vaccinations for a few hours on Sunday, May 16. There are 200 doses of 1-shot J&J available., first-come, first-served. Additional incentive is a free drink from ABasin.









						Arapahoe Basin to offer ski-up COVID-19 vaccinations next weekend
					

Everyone who gets the vaccine at the free clinic will also get a free Bloody Mary, draft beer or soda.




					www.9news.com


----------



## snoloco

In case anyone wasn't following, Killington no longer requires masks for vaccinated people. An important step towards a normal season next year.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

snoloco said:


> In case anyone wasn't following, Killington no longer requires masks for vaccinated people. An important step towards a normal season next year.


I wasn't. Good eye.....and thank God.


----------



## MarzNC

Here's the latest about mask usage for ABasin as of May 16. Colorado vaccination rate is around 75% for Summit County and at least 60% around Denver, Boulder, and Colorado Springs. Eagle and Pitkin counties are around 70%, which is where Vail and Aspen are located.


----------



## Harvey

I think they are releasing numbers for the season today? Guesses?


----------



## Harvey

The answer is 59M. Same as 18/19.


----------



## tirolski

58.88M
What do ya win?


----------



## snoloco

In looking at the health and safety rules at various ski resorts heading into summer, I believe the ORDA mountains are the only ones still requiring that vaccinated people wear masks outdoors. It was last updated after the state lifted the mandate, so this is intentional. I think this is absolutely absurd. It's far more restrictive than anything else I've found that is currently in effect. Are they trying to cater to hypochondriacs, or are they simply behind the times?


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> The answer is 59M. Same as 18/19.


2018-19 was pretty good for snowfall, right? Is there any breakdown available? What would be interesting to see would be by Region and by Size. I think there were smaller ski areas/resorts that did very well with the increased midweek interest. Destination resorts that depend on travelers who fly may have been hit harder, at least in the first couple months of the season. For example Big Sky or Jackson Hole.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> The answer is 59M. Same as 18/19.


Yup



https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Public/Press/2020-21/2021_June_SkierVisits.pdf


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Wasn't 2019 the last year of Epic at ABasin? If they matched that year they're doing pretty well.
They raised the 70+ pass to $300 this year, and they announced that they will limit seaon passnsales as well as lift tickets. The locals are restless over crowding caused by Icon and Epic.

mm


----------



## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Yup
> 
> 
> https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Public/Press/2020-21/2021_June_SkierVisits.pdf


Highlights are pretty clear. Of course, revenue is a different question. Also only comparing to 2019-20, which was low for most regions since everything shut down mid-March 2020.






My sense is that because of the great snowmaking weather, there were ski areas in the southeast that not only had plenty of skier visits, they actually did pretty well financially too. By mid-March the southeastern ski areas (NC, TN, VA, WV) are about to shut down anyway due to lack of snow and lack of customers. Funny, NSAA considers that the Southeast goes all the way up to PA/NJ. There isn't a separate region called the Mid-Atlantic.


----------



## MarzNC

Here's how the report was written up in Colorado. Wonder what "expectations" were back in November 2020?





__





Study: US ski areas rebound despite COVID-19 restrictions


Ski areas across the United States experienced a strong rebound this winter despite COVID-19 health restrictions




www.bcdemocrat.com




_" . . ._​_But even with the restrictions, skiers and snowboarders weren’t deterred, and 78% of ski area operators said this season exceeded their expectations, according to an National Ski Areas Association survey._​_. . ."_​


----------



## Harvey

MarzNC said:


> Of course, revenue is a different question.



Yes.


----------



## MarzNC

The SAM reports about skiing in Québec gives some insight into not only the high demand for locals but also the pandemic impact on revenue. First article is about how good things were for 2018-19, with 6.4 million skier visits. 2020-21 ended up with 6.1 million skier visits. The 10-year average is 5.9 million. Québec was closed to out-of-province travelers, which probably mostly impacted people living in Ontario since the US-Canada border was closed for leisure travel.









Quebec Ski Area Visits Hit 10-Year High


SAM Magazine—Bromont, Quebec, June 5, 2019—Preliminary results for the 2018-19 winter season show the 75 member resorts of the Quebec Ski Areas Association




www.saminfo.com













Quebec 2020-21 Skier Visits Up


SAM Magazine—June 7, 2021—Despite significant pandemic-related operating constraints, Quebec resorts recorded 6.1 million skier visits in 2020-21, exceedin




www.saminfo.com




_" . . .
Passholders played a key role in that visitation figure, accounting for 61 percent of total skier visits this season, up a whopping 30 percent year-over-year. The study also showed a slight increase in midweek visitation; it was up 3 percent, quantifying that forecasted trend.

While total visits exceed expectations, restrictions on travel (Quebec was closed to out of province visitors), ski schools, and day tickets impacted revenue substantially. Day ticket revenue fell by 23 percent, and ski area membership revenue decreased by 9 percent. Ski schools were hit hard, reportedly down 62.3 percent in revenue.
. . ."_


----------



## tirolski

Utah set a record for skier days.








Utah’s ski resorts really did see more skiers and snowboarders last season


Despite the coronavirus pandemic, skier days at Utah's resorts were higher than ever in 2020-21.




www.sltrib.com


----------



## tirolski

New Hampshire had good numbers.








Ski NH: Pandemic-fueled demand upped season visits


EAST MADISON — Ski NH hosted its annual business meeting and a beachside soiree event last Wednesday at King Pine Ski Area & Purity Spring Resort. About 70 people attended




www.conwaydailysun.com


----------



## MC2

tirolski said:


> New Hampshire had good numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ski NH: Pandemic-fueled demand upped season visits
> 
> 
> EAST MADISON — Ski NH hosted its annual business meeting and a beachside soiree event last Wednesday at King Pine Ski Area & Purity Spring Resort. About 70 people attended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.conwaydailysun.com


From the article:
“Alpine skier visits alone were also up 5 percent over last year (to 2,066.011), but down 3 percent compared to the 10-year alpine skier visits average. Cross-country skiing was down 10 percent (to 112,009) over last year, and 8 percent off the 10-year average, whereas snow tubing was up 1 percent (to 117,404) compared with 2019-20 and up 9 percent compared to the 10-year average.”

I’m not sure being up 5% from a year where they shut down for half of March/April is considered “good”, but ymmv


----------



## Tjf1967

All these people taking care of their own are blowing up the economy again. Seems like if you won't get vaccinated you should stay out of public places. These people on TV that didn't get vaccinated and are advocating for it now in their hospital beds annoy me.


----------



## MC2

Tjf1967 said:


> All these people taking care of their own are blowing up the economy again. Seems like if you won't get vaccinated you should stay out of public places. These people itn TV that didn't get vaccinated and are advocating for it now in their hospital beds annoy me.


----------



## Sbob

MC2 said:


> View attachment 9845
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 60% of people being admitted to UK hospitals are unvaccinated - adviser
> 
> 
> Britain's Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance said that 60% of people being admitted to hospital with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, correcting an earlier statement he made on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


??? So 40% have??? 
Having been vaccinated this doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence. Variant or not


----------



## x10003q

Sbob said:


> ??? So 40% have???
> Having been vaccinated this doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence. Variant or not


I didn't realize you lived in England.


----------



## Sbob

x10003q said:


> I didn't realize you lived in England.


Obviously I’m not. I don’t want that crap coming here last thing the politicians need is an excuse to lock down again.


----------



## MarzNC

$15/hour is looking like the new normal for pay at destination ski resorts. Pretty sure that's the amount Vail Resorts announced a month ago. Sugarbush is owned by Alterra and announced that as the base rate going forward.









						Sugarbush Raises Minimum Wage to $15
					

SAM Magazine—Warren, Vt., August 5, 2021—Sugarbush Resort raised its minimum wage to $15 per hour for all non-tipped positions. To maintain the pay differe




					www.saminfo.com


----------



## Harvey

ORDA requiring masks indoors now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428350721506701315


----------



## snoloco

That doesn't send a good message regarding this coming winter. How am I supposed to think that they will load the lifts normally now?


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> How am I supposed to think that they will load the lifts normally now?


Ya must have heard of new normal. 
With Togg being closed hopefully Pete spins more lifts at the other 2 to make up for it.


----------



## snoloco

You must not have heard of the majority of resorts who now have no mention of covid anywhere on their websites. If "new normal" means restricted lift capacity and forced masking, then I'm not willing to accept that. I'm not surprised ORDA is going that route as they seem to never miss an opportunity to make the experience less fun. I'll just ski somewhere else.


----------



## tirolski

Checked SKICNY and Greekpeak and they both mention the vid, so there’s that. 
No need to check Togg as they ain’t opening.
Most likely not gonna go anywhere else, unless there’s place(s) & day(s) I can’t refuse.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> You must not have heard of the majority of resorts who now have no mention of covid anywhere on their websites.


Unless there's an about face with this new variant it's only a matter of time before all ski areas are in play with ORDA.


----------



## Campgottagopee

What if VT shuts down again? NY ski areas could certainly use another good shot in the arm. Might be good??


----------



## snoloco

Vermont banned masks in schools, and has the highest vaccine rate in the country, so I don't see them shutting down again. I don't think it's going to be like last year where everyone has to operate under pretty much the same guidelines.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Vermont banned masks in schools


They didn't ban masks, kids will still wear them. They aren't mandating masks.


----------



## Harvey

All of this is TBD I'm sure. In covid time ski season is far away.









Scott Administration Recommends Schools Be In-Person, Masks Required Until Student Vax Rate Hits 80%


The Scott administration wants all students and staff to mask up regardless of their vaccination status when children return to the classroom this fall. But Secretary of Education Dan French says the universal masking guidance will expire as more young people get vaccinated.




www.vpr.org













To mask or not to mask? Vermont school districts make decision ahead of first day


The state does not have a universal mandate this year.




www.mynbc5.com


----------



## raisingarizona

If this place is like it was last year I won’t be skiing much either. It was too much. I think the zoo was mostly because of people working from home and students not having actual classes.

I can’t ski on crowded runs anymore, it scares me and I can’t let go. That’s just not any fun.


----------



## Harvey

I can't remember the last time I skied on a crowded run. Will try to keep it that way too. Indy hills, weekdays.


----------



## x10003q

raisingarizona said:


> If this place is like it was last year I won’t be skiing much either. It was too much. I think the zoo was mostly because of people working from home and students not having actual classes.
> 
> I can’t ski on crowded runs anymore, it scares me and I can’t let go. That’s just not any fun.


The NJ has been scrubbed out of you.


----------



## snoloco

Harvey said:


> All of this is TBD I'm sure. In covid time ski season is far away.


That's been the most frustrating part of the past 17 months. The goal posts keep moving. I just stopped listening to the alarmist "experts" once I was 2 weeks after my second vaccine dose, so I've been living normally ever since. But it's hard to do that when places like ORDA will codify the most cautious recommendations fed to them by the state or CDC. Few people ever followed what they said to a T before covid. For example, if you've ever eaten a burger cooked less than well done, then you've ignored them.


----------



## Warp daddy

Only a matter of time , this wave isnt going away any time soon . More rural counties are not doing well at all.

By way of example ,my home county has a 51per cent vax rate ( higher in the college towns) and transmission is soaring from County fairs , town festivals , bassmaster events etc where locals mixed with seasonal visitors who drive our tourism economy . Safety protocol at most of these events IMHO were LAX

As a result of the steep ramp up of infections Some regional employers are mandating vax .

Moreover , As revenue falls off in most enterprises when either full or modified lockdown occurs , LOOK for employers to extract pain for health insurance coverage costs for the unVaxxed . No doubt insurance comapnies are already strategizing this scenario .


----------



## Campgottagopee

Warp daddy said:


> Only a matter of time , this wave isnt going away any time soon


I agree with you, Warp. Given what my wife is telling me, our numbers in the hospital, and with SUNY getting ready to return, shit is getting ready to hit the fan. Again.


----------



## Harvey

Warp daddy said:


> LOOK for employers to extract pain for health insurance coverage costs for the unVaxxed .
> 
> There is little doubt insurance companies are already strategizing this scenario .



Been wondering about this. I read the average cost of covid hospital stay is $80k. Varies by age.


----------



## Warp daddy

You are quite correct Harv , the cost is heavily skewed toward ICU CCU length of stay . 

The real shame is that this was not necessary BUT now America is showing just how weak we have become in terms of being crucified on the cross of Individual Rights as opposed pulling together for the Common Good . 

What was our strength before has become our Weakness , sorry to see this phenomena . It has burnt , ntoasted the morale of most all healthcare workers who now hav eto deal with this TOTALLY preventable third wave 

They are tired , discouraged and frankly disgusted as am I with the intransegiance . I only hope we do not see waves of resignations


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> I agree with you, Warp. Given what my wife is telling me, our numbers in the hospital, and with SUNY getting ready to return, shit is getting ready to hit the fan. Again.


Campy she IS a hero , LOVE her dude , she NEEDS support , i see this daily with our local healthcare professionals they are working under TREMENDOUS pressure that could have been avoided except for bullheaded ignoramuses. 

Sorry for the rant , its been a grind and we are all tired .


----------



## snoloco

The moralization of covid was a huge mistake. We made people believe that they could stop covid when that was never possible, and when reality set in, it was demoralizing. People who want to live normally after being vaccinated are not inherently evil. Those who choose not to get vaccinated are not preventing others from living normally. They're taking an unnecessary risk, and it shows with 95% of hospitalizations being unvaccinated.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Warp daddy said:


> we are all tired .


This is just it. These health care workers are exhausted, pissed, and almost to their breaking points. As I said in another thread, many coworkers of my wife are seriously thinking of just calling it quits. They can't take it anymore.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> This is just it. These health care workers are exhausted, pissed, and almost to their breaking points. As I said in another thread, many coworkers of my wife are seriously thinking of just calling it quits. They can't take it anymore.


I know a lot of nurses that did just that this past year.

This isn’t that hard to believe.


----------



## Warp daddy

Warp daddy said:


> Campy she IS a hero , LOVE her dude , she NEEDS support , i see this daily with our local healthcare professionals they are working under TREMENDOUS pressure that could





snoloco said:


> , The moralization of covid was a huge mistake. We made people believe that they could stop covid when that was never possible, and when reality set in, it was demoralizing. People who want to live normally after being vaccinated are not inherently evil. Those who choose not to get vaccinated are not preventing others from living normally. They're taking an unnecessary risk, and it shows with 95% of hospitalizations being unvaccinated.


Wrong , had the vaxrate been adequate say 75 per cent this would have been an ENDEMIC similar to the seasonal flu and maneageable . however the threat is palpable and exists when in fact these idiots cause secondery and tertiary surges that HEALTHCARE PROS MUST DEAL WITH .

That is fact not conjecture an due solely to the fact that others prioritized their own selfish bullheaded intransigence over the welfare of their fellow man and the result of which DOES effect other causing undue chaos in man already overtaxed healthcare delivery system.


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> This isn’t that hard to believe.


You're right
I think we'll all have a lot of unanswered questions for a long time.
I still say you would've been a great nurse.


----------



## Harvey

IMO it's certainly plausible it came out of the lab. 

To me it's not plausible that the Chinese released it on purpose. That makes no sense.


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> IMO it's certainly plausible it came out of the lab.
> 
> To me it's not plausible that the Chinese released it on purpose. That makes no sense.


I agree. There's no way the government, ours or the Chinese would want this to happen. A terrorist though? Maybe.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> You're right
> I think we'll all have a lot of unanswered questions for a long time.
> I still say you would've been a great nurse.


thanks man, I think I would have been good at it too but after a year or so I'd totally hate the job.


----------



## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> A terrorist though? Maybe.



I hadn't thought about that. Certainly possible. Still seems more likely that something they do all the time at Wuhan went wrong. IMO got to be classified as human error, even if the equipment failed.

My question... does virus research have any altruistic purpose? Does it even have the potential to benefit man or planet?

I'm asking because I don't know. I know I can google it. I will.


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> I hadn't thought about that. Certainly possible. Still seems more likely that something they do all the time at Wuhan went wrong. IMO got to be classified as human error, even if the equipment failed.
> 
> My question... does virus research have any altruistic purpose? Does it even have the potential to benefit man or planet?
> 
> I'm asking because I don't know. I know I can google it. I will.


Maybe the more we know about viruses the better we can fight them and create vaccines? 

Developing new viruses seems like it would be more about using them for biological warfare but I have no idea.


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> My question... does virus research have any altruistic purpose? Does it even have the potential to benefit man or planet?


I think the idea is to be able to develop vaccines and treatments against the viruses. That being said it seems like a decent percentage of the medical/scientific community turned against “gain of function” research awhile ago, which is the controversy. It seems like the most likely scenario, in my inexpert opinion, is that the lab was super-charging this virus for whatever reason, it slipped out accidentally and the Chinese covered it up while doing what they could to protect the rest of their country and not doing anything to protect other countries. I’m open to the idea that once they were dealing with it, they purposely made sure everybody would have to deal with it too but obviously don‘t know one way or the other.


----------



## raisingarizona

Brownski said:


> I think the idea is to be able to develop vaccines and treatments against the viruses. That being said it seems like a decent percentage of the medical/scientific community turned against “gain of function” research awhile ago, which is the controversy. It seems like the most likely scenario, in my inexpert opinion, is that the lab was super-charging this virus for whatever reason, it slipped out accidentally and the Chinese covered it up while doing what they could to protect the rest of their country and not doing anything to protect other countries. I’m open to the idea that once they were dealing with it, they purposely made sure everybody would have to deal with it too but obviously don‘t know one way or the other.


Is the Chinese culture a lot like the Japanese in regards to honor and saving face etc.? If so the cover up makes complete sense.


----------



## tirolski

In my inexpert opinion we ain’t ever gonna know where and when the bat poo flu virus came but it’s spike protein amino acid sequence look to be somewhat engineered.
By whom we’ll most likely never know.
Don’t get a lot on ya. Stay well.


----------



## Sbob

Very interesting lab origin theory!


----------



## tirolski

This is sweet and should help.
Scientists @ UCSD and elsewhere figured out a way the spike protein opens to be able to infect cells.
It’s related to sugar on an amino acid. There’s videos too.








Researchers discover hidden SARS-CoV-2 'gate' that opens to allow COVID infection


Since the early days of the COVID pandemic, scientists have aggressively pursued the secrets of the mechanisms that allow severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) to enter and infect healthy human cells.




phys.org


----------



## tirolski

Sbob said:


> Very interesting lab origin theory!


Yup, also interesting it was put up on the uTube April 1st, just sayin.


----------



## XTski

Seeing how China tops the list of our worst enemies nothing surprises me.
the drywall fiasco was bad, they really don’t seem to have much oversight


----------



## MC2

Amazing how many people want to blame somebody, when they don’t know shit about shit:








						Scientists: We Still Think Coronavirus Wuhan Lab Leak Theory Is Total Nonsense
					

The debate over whether COVID-19 began in a Wuhan lab has been reignited in recent months, but one group of experts is still very far from convinced.



					www.thedailybeast.com


----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> That doesn't send a good message regarding this coming winter. How am I supposed to think that they will load the lifts normally now?


How about being thankful you are fucking skiing in the first place?


snoloco said:


> You must not have heard of the majority of resorts who now have no mention of covid anywhere on their websites. If "new normal" means restricted lift capacity and forced masking, then I'm not willing to accept that. I'm not surprised ORDA is going that route as they seem to never miss an opportunity to make the experience less fun. I'll just ski somewhere else.


Of course they aren’t gonna mention it on their website. Shit changes daily. Remember when this whole thing came out of the blue? The leaves are changing but ski season is a long way off. A lot can happen between now and then. I’ve got no problem with ORDA and their masks if it helps people from getting sick. Get some skins and go hide in the woods, the skiing is better there anyway.


----------



## snoloco

Ripitz said:


> How about being thankful you are fucking skiing in the first place?


I complied with all the rules last year and was happy to do so because it seemed that was necessary to keep the resorts open when there was still a risk of them being shut down again. That's not the case anymore, so this argument doesn't work with me. If you don't want to ride a lift with other people, then maybe you should just not ski. It's not the ski resort's responsibility to redesign their entire operation to protect you from a respiratory virus that there is a vaccine for. Your irrational fear is your problem, not mine.


----------



## Ripitz

I don’t think not wanting to share the lift with myself, my wife, our 3 year old Peanut and a stranger during a pandemic is irrational fear. You do you bro, sorry you can’t crank out those runs.


----------



## snoloco

Ripitz said:


> I don’t think not wanting to share the lift with myself, my wife, our 3 year old Peanut and a stranger during a pandemic is irrational fear. You do you bro, sorry you can’t crank out those runs.


It is irrational. You're outdoors, and you can get vaccinated for covid.


----------



## Ripitz

Stranger danger! My wife and I are vaccinated and the Peanut obviously is not. You can still get it and or spread it. We’ll see how things go. This year doesn’t look good for making fast friends on lifts. I don’t need the extra runs. I do need my family to be safe.


----------



## snoloco

Have your kid sit on the opposite side of the chair that the single is coming in if you're that concerned. Problem solved.


----------



## Ripitz

You obviously don’t have a child


----------



## snoloco

That has nothing to do with the fact that you are not entitled to your own chair. Even last year, if you went somewhere that wasn't ORDA, singles were expected to pair up on the bigger lifts.


----------



## G.ski

snoloco said:


> That has nothing to do with the fact that you are not entitled to your own chair. Even last year, if you went somewhere that wasn't ORDA, singles were expected to pair up on the bigger lifts.


I think you are going to be disappointed. It's pretty clear that we're heading back to masking and distancing. I just hope there's no parking reservations like last season.


----------



## Campgottagopee

MC2 said:


> Amazing how many people want to blame somebody, when they don’t know shit about shit:


I know shit. Horse shit, cow shit, dog shit, bat shit, bear shit, bull shit. Just to name a few.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> That has nothing to do with the fact that you are not entitled to your own chair. Even last year, if you went somewhere that wasn't ORDA, singles were expected to pair up on the bigger lifts.


Funny you using the word entitled.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Your irrational fear is your problem, not mine.


You're mistaking thoughtfulness for fear. We all need to be mindful of those around us, if not, we very well may shut down again.
Ripitz has every right to protect his family and those around him. Even if it means you wait for the next chair. Mmmmmmk lil buckaroo?


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> I know shit. Horse shit, cow shit, dog shit, bat shit, bear shit, bull shit. Just to name a few.


Did ya pass the bull shit class at the U of Wash?
or wer ya home skooled?








After much media attention, UW Information School’s ‘Calling BS’ class begins


The very name of the class, when proposed, seemed to fire imaginations nationwide and beyond. Now with the beginning of spring quarter, the UW Information School's new course



www.washington.edu


----------



## snoloco

Campgottagopee said:


> You're mistaking thoughtfulness for fear. We all need to be mindful of those around us, if not, we very well may shut down again.
> Ripitz has every right to protect his family and those around him. Even if it means you wait for the next chair. Mmmmmmk lil buckaroo?


Oh no, the evil single rider is trying to kill him. Go fuck yourself. All you ever do is pick a fight.


----------



## Tjf1967

MC2 said:


> Amazing how many people want to blame somebody, when they don’t know shit about shit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientists: We Still Think Coronavirus Wuhan Lab Leak Theory Is Total Nonsense
> 
> 
> The debate over whether COVID-19 began in a Wuhan lab has been reignited in recent months, but one group of experts is still very far from convinced.
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailybeast.com


I'm convinced it came from the lab. There is enough information available to draw your own conclusion. Is it were reversed I'm pretty sure the US would cover it up to is they could.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> Funny you using the word entitled.


I was thinking the same thing. That post was actually hilarious.


----------



## raisingarizona

Im weary of anyone that thinks their an expert on the coronavirus. If the past two years has proven anything it’s that the “authorities” often don’t know shit, the media doesn’t know shit and the majority of people seriously lack critical thinking skills.

Loco, take a lap buddy. We are facing much bigger problems right now then how ski lifts are going to be loaded this coming season.


----------



## raisingarizona

MC2 said:


> Amazing how many people want to blame somebody, when they don’t know shit about shit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientists: We Still Think Coronavirus Wuhan Lab Leak Theory Is Total Nonsense
> 
> 
> The debate over whether COVID-19 began in a Wuhan lab has been reignited in recent months, but one group of experts is still very far from convinced.
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailybeast.com


Do you really think that article is a concrete source stating anything firmly factual or is that just some Confirmation bias for yourself?


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Oh no, the evil single rider is trying to kill him. Go fuck yourself. All you ever do is pick a fight.


LMAO!
I wasn't picking a fight. In fact, I chose my words carefully as to not come across that way. Your comments to Ripitz were very selfish , imo. As RA said, we have bigger issues than stupid chairlifts at ski areas.


----------



## Harvey

Another big overnight!

I think knowledge is evolving, it makes sense the we'd know more after a while. Yea they told you you'd be free after the vax and that isn't totally true. They should probably have known that supply issues and vax resistance would limit success.

I'm not claiming to know shit or that the Wuhan Lab was the source, just that it's a possibility. How many virology labs are there in China? This world famous one is 8 blocks from the market that was tagged as the source.

Lifts: What if you are vaxed and still want to ride alone? I'm not sure what I do, it's not ski season yet. Maybe I'll ride alone and insist on empty chairs in front and in back of me. ?

One thing is likely, I'll do what I did last year, focus on the indies on weekdays. I never caused any liftlines riding alone at Plattekill or McCauley or Snow Ridge or Petersburg Pass or skiing in our woods.

Some people have a hard time seeing the pov of others. IMO hard to be really happy longterm if you can't do that. Sno you're 20 something and your odds are good for a mild infection if you get sick again. Good luck.


----------



## Warp daddy

Ripitz said:


> You obviously don’t have a child


Nor any common sense either


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> Funny you using the word entitled.


Bingo , winner winner ,chicken dinner !


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> LMAO!
> I wasn't picking a fight. In fact, I chose my words carefully as to not come across that way. Your comments to Ripitz were very selfish , imo. As RA said, we have bigger issues than stupid chairlifts at ski areas.


Our boy has yet to become a man


----------



## Campgottagopee

Warp daddy said:


> Our boy has yet to become a man


This is true. I'm still holding out hope for him. 
I still say it ain't gonna happen until the lil fella gets punched.


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> Sno you're 20 something and your odds are good for a mild infection if you get sick again. Good luck.


Your odds are very good too- since you had it and got vaxed. If you’re unlucky enough to get sick again, it will most likely be mild.


----------



## Brownski

Campgottagopee said:


> This is true. I'm still holding out hope for him.
> I still say it ain't gonna happen until the lil fella gets punched.


It’s crazy but kids don’t fight anymore. Neither of mine have ever been in a fight either, which I guess is good.


----------



## MC2

raisingarizona said:


> raisingarizona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think that article is a concrete source stating anything firmly factual or is that just some Confirmation bias for yourself?
Click to expand...


I think my point was, nobody knows shit about shit, so posts like this are irresponsible at best:



raisingarizona said:


> Is the Chinese culture a lot like the Japanese in regards to honor and saving face etc.? If so the cover up makes complete sense.


----------



## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> Lifts: What if you are vaxed and still want to ride alone?


What if I want to smoke a bowl and don’t want to share?


Harvey said:


> Maybe I'll ride alone and insist on empty chairs in front and in back of me. ?



Most of our lift rides were walk on last season. The most we waited was 5 minutes so I don’t think my pod caused an unnecessary burden for anyone. Looking forward to riding with you one day Sno.


----------



## Warp daddy

Brownski said:


> It’s crazy but kids don’t fight anymore. Neither of mine have ever been in a fight either, which I guess is good.


Where do you live ?

I also notice that kids and many young adults are NOT participating in organized summer youth sports these days ,at least in this area .

We have 4 relatively new magnificent baseball fields with padded fences very nice dugouts and ,stands . Two are lighted and there are several soft fields that used to bustle with activity EVERY nite of the week with organized baseball / softball teams . They are ghost towns now . Used to have t ball, pre little league , little league , Babe Ruth leagues , and post 16 leagues AND numerous local adult softball league with players from both Canada and the US ..........now it is a morgue .

Too many video games ? Have kids have gotten jaded and this just is not of interest ?
Or perhaps we are soft now Not certain but it is a shame . 

Some Kids fight now with taunts , bullying , trolling their social media , but do not see much evidence beyond that . We disi have two kids commit suicide from on line bullying AND EXTORTION relative to teenage sexting and threat if exposure

Simply sad to see this level of decline / dispair


----------



## snoloco

Harvey said:


> Lifts: What if you are vaxed and still want to ride alone? I'm not sure what I do, it's not ski season yet.


If you are taking a train, bus, or plane, you might have someone sitting next to you. If you're not ok with that, then you don't travel. If you go to an amusement park now, you don't get your own row on a roller coaster. If you have a problem with that, then you don't go. I don't see why ski lifts should be treated any differently.


----------



## Harvey

All I'm saying is wait until the season and then freak out if necessary


----------



## Emily

All of this debate could be resolved if Harvey could convince the My Pillow guy to join the forum.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> It’s crazy but kids don’t fight anymore. Neither of mine have ever been in a fight either, which I guess is good.


I guess it was different for us/me. We always wanted to know who the toughest kid was. Fighting was something we did for "fun". I have a scar on my face to prove it.....lol 
It seems as though I was always the biggest guy in our group. That said, the truly tough guys, like TJ, would always want to take on "the big guy". I have a losing record in my fights....?


----------



## Campgottagopee

Warp daddy said:


> Where do you live ?
> 
> I also notice that kids and many young adults are NOT participating in organized summer youth sports these days ,at least in this area .
> 
> We have 4 relatively new magnificent baseball fields with padded fences very nice dugouts and ,stands . Two are lighted and there are several soft fields that used to bustle with activity EVERY nite of the week with organized baseball / softball teams . They are ghost towns now . Used to have t ball, pre little league , little league , Babe Ruth leagues , and post 16 leagues AND numerous local adult softball league with players from both Canada and the US ..........now it is a morgue .
> 
> Too many video games ? Have kids have gotten jaded and this just is not of interest ?
> Or perhaps we are soft now Not certain but it is a shame .
> 
> Some Kids fight now with taunts , bullying , trolling their social media , but do not see much evidence beyond that . We disi have two kids commit suicide from on line bullying AND EXTORTION relative to teenage sexting and threat if exposure
> 
> Simply sad to see this level of decline / dispair


Truth


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> I guess it was different for us/me. We always wanted to know who the toughest kid was. Fighting was something we did for "fun". I have a scar on my face to prove it.....lol
> It seems as though I was always the biggest guy in our group. That said, the truly tough guys, like TJ, would always want to take on "the big guy". I have a losing record in my fights....?


 ?Hell we had boxing matches in a make shift ring to settle shit ? TRUE STORY 

My best buddy growing up ( today a retired former college dean) and i got into a shitty roux so his older brother (now a Doctor) says " ok you lil sob's ARE going to put on the gloves and have a boxing match in our backyard tomorrow . Im inviting all the neighborhood kids and the LOSER is gonna have to KISS MY BARE ASS" ?? rhere will be 3 minute rounds till we have a clear winner 

Now to 10 yr olds THIS was some serious shit and a YOOOOOOGE potential embarassment . 


Well we put on the gloves whacked each other around for 3 , 3 minute rounds , by the end of which we weLaughing our asses off at each other as was the crowd . 

Moral of the story his older wiser bro set up an embarrasing outcome ( which he NEVER intended to do ) so that we would see just how idiotic we had been to not settle our minor shit ourselves .

We still laff at this today ,


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> All I'm saying is wait until the season and then freak out if necessary


I ain’t gonna go to no freakout.
Did my time at them in my younger daze.








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Lift Tickets From 4 pm to Midnight Are ONLY $9. Tickets available at the Ski Company OR at the mountain. Sorry, these lift tickets are not valid at Labrador Mountain. The Degenerators performing LIVE…




www.skicny.com


----------



## raisingarizona

MC2 said:


> I think my point was, nobody knows shit about shit, so posts like this are irresponsible at best:


Nice. That makes sense. I probably got too excited to bust your balls Matt ?


----------



## Brownski

Warp daddy said:


> Where do you live ?


NYC outer suburbs or the very southern edge of upstate, depending on who you ask. Neither of my kids know anybody that has been cyber-bullied to any serious extent. They are low drama and run with low drama crews I guess.


Harvey said:


> All I'm saying is wait until the season and then freak out if necessary


I can agree to that. I’m guessing that the current spike has abated and we’re working through the next (hopefully smaller) wave by then.


----------



## snoloco

Brownski said:


> NYC outer suburbs or the very southern edge of upstate, depending on who you ask. Neither of my kids know anybody that has been cyber-bullied to any serious extent. They are low drama and run with low drama crews I guess.
> 
> I can agree to that. I’m guessing that the current spike has abated and we’re working through the next (hopefully smaller) wave by then.


Our vaccination rate should continue to increase between now and then, so theoretically there should be more of a buffer.


----------



## Harvey

Emily said:


> All of this debate could be resolved if Harvey could convince the My Pillow guy to join the forum.


He's using an alias.


----------



## Tjf1967

MC2 said:


> I think my point was, nobody knows shit about shit, so posts like this are irresponsible at best:



There is a lot that is known. I have to believe that if it came from an animal than somewhere where it originated would have had covid. They can't find any cases like that. I don't care if it did come from the lab. Shit happens. I don't see how it could have come from any other place.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> He's using an alias.


It ain’t me, allegedly. Never wanted to sell pillows for a livin.


----------



## trackbiker

Brownski said:


> It’s crazy but kids don’t fight anymore. Neither of mine have ever been in a fight either, which I guess is good.


Kids in the cities don't have fist fights any more. They all have guns and they shoot each other.


----------



## G.ski

trackbiker said:


> Kids in the cities don't have fist fights any more. They all have guns and they shoot each other.


This is sadly accurate.

And regarding Warp's memories of boxing that's what our parents in our neighborhood did with us when we started rumbles. Our parents knew what was going on because we were all outside with each other in plain sight. After a few rounds of boxing everyone was wiped out and too tired to start trouble. And it's no coincidence that all my best friends to this day are the people I grew up with.


----------



## tirolski

If we didn’t come home from playin without grass stains, torn clothes. bruised or a bit of blood it must’ve been raining.
Sometimes it was all of the above when it rained.


----------



## Tjf1967

tirolski said:


> If we didn’t come home from playin without grass stains, torn clothes. bruised or a bit of blood it must’ve been raining.
> Sometimes it was all of the above when it rained.


You only went out once after school with your school clothes on.


----------



## tirolski

Tjf1967 said:


> You only went out once after school with your school clothes on.


Yup. Had designated school clothes. 
Play clothes were whatever wasn’t school clothes & any special occasion clothes.


----------



## MarzNC

The ski season in Australia and New Zealand is being heavily impacted by local lockdowns. I can't keep track any more of the short closures even for the major resorts that are on Epic or Ikon.

Both countries kept COVID-19 well under control before Delta arrived in the last month or two. One state, which includes Sydney, is experiencing exponential growth of community spread with no end in sight in spite of hard lock downs that were imposed a few weeks ago. This wave will be far worse in terms of hospitalization and deaths than anything they experienced during their 2020 winter. While most Aussies and Kiwis are willing to be vaccinated, supplies have only recently arrived in order to keep up with demand for people under age 40.


----------



## Harvey




----------



## snoloco

It's due to an increase in outdoor recreation and spillover from Vermont. Of the Vermont spillover, I wonder how many are going back, and how many decided to stick with ORDA. Either way, they have a busy season coming their way and need to be loading all lifts at full capacity. Last year, all the growth was on weekdays, since weekends were always sold out. At Gore, I believe their target was about 75% of what they typically did on a busy weekend before the pandemic, judging from the parking lot. It will be interesting to see how many of the new weekday skiers from last year continue to ski on weekdays, and how many go back to weekends.


----------



## raisingarizona

Cody just started her first year in high school last week. There’s already 600 kids on quarantine for having or exposure to covid. Half of her teachers are out right now as well. Things aren’t looking good imho. Loaded chairs are not high on my list of concerns right now.


----------



## snoloco

A 10 minute chairlift ride and sitting in a school all day are not even in the same world in terms of the risk of getting covid.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> It's due to an increase in outdoor recreation and spillover from Vermont. Of the Vermont spillover, I wonder how many are going back, and how many decided to stick with ORDA. Either way, they have a busy season coming their way and need to be loading all lifts at full capacity. Last year, all the growth was on weekdays, since weekends were always sold out. At Gore, I believe their target was about 75% of what they typically did on a busy weekend before the pandemic, judging from the parking lot. It will be interesting to see how many of the new weekday skiers from last year continue to ski on weekdays, and how many go back to weekends.






I used to sing this song to my daughter whenever I thought she was being a brat because she couldn’t get exactly what she wanted. She hated it but I like to think she’s better off because of my torture ?


----------



## snoloco

All you ever do is complain either about how the world is going to end, or that I'm entitled. I don't know exactly what ORDA will do with their lifts. I assume most resorts will load them normally unless the state or local government mandates otherwise. Of course, ORDA isn't most resorts. My opinion is every ski resort should return to normal lift capacity, given that sporting events, restaurants, and public transit are also at full capacity. Based on ORDA's pass numbers, they will need full capacity lifts if they don't want to be shutting out passholders with a reservation system. I was at Gore nearly every weekend they were open last year, and you were not, so I know infinitely more on this topic.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> All you ever do is complain either about how the world is going to end, or that I'm entitled. I don't know exactly what ORDA will do with their lifts. I assume most resorts will load them normally unless the state or local government mandates otherwise. Of course, ORDA isn't most resorts. My opinion is every ski resort should return to normal lift capacity, given that sporting events, restaurants, and public transit are also at full capacity. Based on ORDA's pass numbers, they will need full capacity lifts if they don't want to be shutting out passholders with a reservation system. I was at Gore nearly every weekend they were open last year, and you were not, so I know infinitely more on this topic.


Just play the song kid.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> View attachment 10194
> 
> View attachment 10195
> 
> View attachment 10196


Thanks for the screen shots of the meetin.
Belle’s up, WF down per charts. Pratt addressed the numbers in the meeting but don’t remember what’s been said.


----------



## raisingarizona

tirolski said:


> Thanks for the screen shots of the meetin.
> Belle’s up, WF down per charts. Pratt addressed the numbers in the meeting but don’t remember what’s been said.


So the pointless gondola is paying off?


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> Cody just started her first year in high school last week. There’s already 600 kids on quarantine for having or exposure to covid. Half of her teachers are out right now as well. Things aren’t looking good imho. Loaded chairs are not high on my list of concerns right now.


This isn't good. Hopefully she stays safe.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> It's due to an increase in outdoor recreation and spillover from Vermont.



That's why I put it in this thread.



snoloco said:


> Of the Vermont spillover, I wonder how many are going back, and how many decided to stick with ORDA.



Good question. My guess is that when things get back to old normal, it won't be that different. People do things for a reason, and I don't think most of those reasons (snowfall, vert, amenities) have changed.



snoloco said:


> It will be interesting to see how many of the new weekday skiers from last year continue to ski on weekdays, and how many go back to weekends.



Agree. This year and next.

I'm not thinking this year will be covid free or normal. Would love to be wrong.

I will probably continue to ski weekdays, with the benefits and drawbacks. Better snow and day selection, no lines, fewer ski days and more driving. Not feeling too good about the driving.


----------



## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> So the pointless gondola is paying off?


Skiing is up in general. Not sure the Belle gondola has much to do with it.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> A 10 minute chairlift ride and sitting in a school all day are not even in the same world in terms of the risk of getting covid.



Liftlines are more the issue IMO.

@raisingarizona 600 in quarantine, how many total kids in the school?


----------



## x10003q

snoloco said:


> It's due to an increase in outdoor recreation and spillover from Vermont. Of the Vermont spillover, I wonder how many are going back, and how many decided to stick with ORDA. Either way, they have a busy season coming their way and need to be loading all lifts at full capacity. Last year, all the growth was on weekdays, since weekends were always sold out. At Gore, I believe their target was about 75% of what they typically did on a busy weekend before the pandemic, judging from the parking lot. It will be interesting to see how many of the new weekday skiers from last year continue to ski on weekdays, and how many go back to weekends.


There will be more kids back in their local school buildings this year. Our system is not offering remote/zoom as an alternative to going into the building. Remote learning will exist only if the whole school is closed (snow day). This will lead to less midweek skiers as families cannot move into ski houses while their kids take their daily classes.


----------



## snoloco

Harvey said:


> Liftlines are more the issue IMO.


And loading the lifts half full makes them longer.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> And loading the lifts half full makes them longer.



I was only in lines one day, over Christmas at Gore. I may skip Christmas skiing this year.

Sno how was your season last year? Mine was excellent (cept for the covid I got doh!).

All your stressing isn't going to change what is going to happen. 

Question, if Vermont is fully open to NYers will that change where you ski? I think it might be. Vermont is highly vaxxed and they are likely to want to make up revenue after last year.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> All your stressing isn't going to change what is going to happen.


Exactly. He currently has the cart in front of the horse


----------



## snoloco

I thought last season turned out as good as it could have been given the circumstances. There were no long term closures of any Northeast resort. But I do not think any of the measures taken should be made permanent, or even in place for another season. 

For next season, I switched to Killington. I'm lucky enough to live within day trip range, and wanted to take advantage of the long season. So that was the main reason for doing it. An added bonus is I see them being among the most likely to operate normally. ORDA would be the least likely. But I didn't really think of that when I purchased.


----------



## tirolski

Never was in a line of more than a dozen folks last year and that was very rare & due to lift stoppage.
All mid week non-holiday except at the end. 
Bounced between Song - Lab but surely missed goin ta Gore.
Too easy to stay around home since the snow was good.
If we didn’t have the heat wave late was gonna go up but she melted too fast and golf course opened.


----------



## jasonwx

snoloco said:


> A 10 minute chairlift ride and sitting in a school all day are not even in the same world in terms of the risk of getting covid.





tirolski said:


> Never was in a line of more than a dozen folks last year and that was very rare & due to lift stoppage.
> All mid week non-holiday except at the end.
> Bounced between Song - Lab but surely missed goin ta Gore.
> Too easy to stay around home since the snow was good.
> If we didn’t have the heat wave late was gonna go up but she melted too fast and golf course opened.


I sat out last year
I plan on skiing this year
As long as I can boot up in the lodge


----------



## Harvey

Where you going to ski @jasonwx ? Midweek Hunter?


----------



## Harvey

Harvey said:


> View attachment 10194



^^This is the most interesting to me. Surprised they would put it out there and also curious about why 18-19 was an outlier. It was a good year for snow I think.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> ^^This is the most interesting to me. Surprised they would put it out there and also curious about why 18-19 was an outlier. It was a good year for snow I think.


Maybe it's the new normal, not an outlier. Even 2020 wasn't bad considering they lost the last year of the season. DId they find some new revenue source in 2019? Maybe the Ski Bowl contract with the town or the solar energy deal? I don't remember when those things happened. Some of the loss years are easy to explain. 2016 was the year with no winter, 2018 was the year they were on Max Pass. Maybe they just learned how to run a ski area.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> I was only in lines one day, over Christmas at Gore.


There were long lines for the AE2 before 9am a lot of mornings. That was a COVID thing. The worst day last year was when they closed Echo and Sagamore for racing. Usually the long lines at Gore are caused by gondola breakdowns before the BRG and AE2 are started. I've never seen an excessive line at Gore when the BRQ was running. 
None of the lines in recent years are anywhere near as bad as back when the red gondola and East double were the only way out of the base.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

jasonwx said:


> I sat out last year.
> I plan on skiing this year
> As long as I can boot up in the lodge


Boot up in the car wasn't bad at all. as long as you got there early enough thaat the walk wasn't too long. The best thing was I drove up alone most days and wrmed up my boots under the car heater. I'm gonna have to work on a way to heat up my boots every day now.
Skiing was the safest and most enjoyable thing I could do last winter. If I had sat out last year I would have died of cabin fever.

mm


----------



## Harvey

Milo Maltbie said:


> Boot up in the car wasn't bad at all. as long as you got there early enough thaat the walk wasn't too long. The best thing was I drove up alone most days and wrmed up my boots under the car heater.



This is what I did after I figured out that my fingers and toes ended up much warmer. I wish the driver's seat went a LITTLE bit farther back, but not really a big deal.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> Based on ORDA's pass numbers, they will need full capacity lifts if they don't want to be shutting out passholders with a reservation system.


Gore has take away capacity from the base on 3 lifts- the gondola, AE2 and BRQ. Before COVID, they rarely opened the AE2 in the first hour, and never had the BRQ until late morning. So basically they typically ran at less than half capacity every morning.
The lift lines at Gore are mostly reasonable, unless the gondola breaks down. Even with that lines wouldn't awful if they opened AE2 and BRQ at 830.

mm


----------



## snoloco

Last year had the worst lines I have ever seen at Gore. Mostly the problem was at the base, but it wasn't just before 9am, or before 10am. It was consistent for nearly the entire day except maybe a small break around lunch and after around 2:30. For the most part if you stuck to the other sections you were fine, but there were days when I saw the lines at Topridge, Straightbrook, and High Peaks back up the hill.

As I've said earlier, we did what was necessary to open last year. It worked, considering there were no extended closures in the Northeast. But there were clearly bad effects from it and I'm not going to sugarcoat it, glorify it, or otherwise engage in revisionist history. Also, on weekends, they almost always opened the AE2 at the same time as the gondola, covid or not. Maybe weekdays were different, but I rarely ski at Gore on weekdays, so I don't know.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> Last year had the worst lines I have ever seen at Gore. Mostly the problem was at the base, but it wasn't just before 9am, or before 10am. It was consistent for nearly the entire day except maybe a small break around lunch and after around 2:30. For the most part if you stuck to the other sections you were fine, but there were days when I saw the lines at Topridge, Straightbrook, and High Peaks back up the hill.


I was there days like that as well. but only when the BRQ was not running. That's about a third of the base area take away capacity, and maybe 15% or more of the total capacity of Gore. Gore lift lines are caused by an unreliable gondola and their slow roll opening plan more than capacity limitations.

mm


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> Maybe weekdays were different, but I rarely ski at Gore on weekdays, so I don't know.


Skied Gore ~2 dozen times over a couple years using a M-F pass. 
Didn’t go once last year even though purchased the infrequent skier card.
Never been there on a weekend or holiday and most likely will keep that run intact.
It’s great when nobody’s there, lots of it open, the snow’s good & especially if it’s sunny.
It was a good fun "old normal" for a bit.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat it, glorify it, or otherwise engage in revisionist history.



Go ahead give it a try! 

Seriously I haven't seen anyone saying it was great or bad really. I only skied 10 days at Gore. Two were truly busy.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> Last year had the worst lines I have ever seen at Gore. Mostly the problem was at the base, but it wasn't just before 9am, or before 10am. It was consistent for nearly the entire day except maybe a small break around lunch and after around 2:30. For the most part if you stuck to the other sections you were fine, but there were days when I saw the lines at Topridge, Straightbrook, and High Peaks back up the hill.
> 
> As I've said earlier, we did what was necessary to open last year. It worked, considering there were no extended closures in the Northeast. But there were clearly bad effects from it and I'm not going to sugarcoat it, glorify it, or otherwise engage in revisionist history. Also, on weekends, they almost always opened the AE2 at the same time as the gondola, covid or not. Maybe weekdays were different, but I rarely ski at Gore on weekdays, so I don't know.


Just wait to see the lines for food in 30 years.

start buying guns kid.


----------



## snoloco

raisingarizona said:


> Just wait to see the lines for food in 30 years.
> 
> start buying guns kid.


Sounds like either I die, or the new normal will make me wish I did. Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left, unlike you, you hopeless sad sack.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Gore has more than adequate lift capacity to serve the terrain as it is now. IME excessive lines are mostly caused by lift failures or late opening lifts. Adding uphill capacity without adding downhill capacity will make the whole experience worse. Unfortunately, adding skiable terrain means widening and straightening trails and clearing glades. You may have shorter lines, but it will be more like Okemo and less like what we like about the place. I prefer it the way it is. YMMV.

mm


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left, unlike you, you hopeless sad sack.


Do you speak to people like this face to face? I can't imagine you do but I'd like to know.


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> start buying guns kid.


Good advise. Money in the bank.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left, unlike you, you hopeless sad sack.





Campgottagopee said:


> Do you speak to people like this face to face? I can't imagine you do but I'd like to know.


Seriously. That was entirely uncalled for, Sno.


----------



## snoloco

Campgottagopee said:


> Do you speak to people like this face to face? I can't imagine you do but I'd like to know.


If someone butted into every conversation on any topic with end of world messaging irrelevant to the discussion, and repeatedly did it for as long as I can remember, then this is the exact response they'd get, whether face to face or online.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> If someone butted into every conversation on any topic with end of world messaging irrelevant to the discussion, and repeatedly did it for as long as I can remember, then this is the exact response they'd get, whether face to face or online.


Butted in? You do realize this is the internet, right? His sound advise has gone right over your head. Anyway, keep up the good work. If you're lucky someone will just bitch slap you instead of knocking you the F out.


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> Sounds like either I die, or the new normal will make me wish I did. Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left,


Nobody gets their body out alive.
Best to take care of the one ya got and enjoy the ride.

As the great philosopher Wayne from Letterkenny advises,
“Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life."


----------



## Sbob

raisingarizona said:


> Just wait to see the lines for food in 30 years.
> 
> start buying guns kid.


It worked for Clark Griswold . Had the place to themselves ?


----------



## Brownski

tirolski said:


> As the great philosopher Wayne from Letterkenny advises,
> “Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life."


God bless Leterkenny. Fucking genius show.

Sno,
Your rudeness aside I’ll give you a little support I agree that there’s no point in limiting chair capacity. All the science I’ve seen says that transmission in the outdoors is very rare.


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> God bless Leterkenny. Fucking genius show.


Since ya asked for it nicely.


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> Do you speak to people like this face to face? I can't imagine you do but I'd like to know.


He is emotionally immature Camp and has simply much to learn on that score.


----------



## Ripitz

Oh shit! I think the ski off is back on. What’s it gonna be boys, mono-ski or ski-blades? Your choice.


----------



## MC2

Campgottagopee said:


> If you're lucky someone will just bitch slap you instead of knocking you the F out.





snoloco said:


> Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left, unlike you, you hopeless sad sack.


I don’t know, looking at these two statements, which is worse. RA has been kind of a downer lately. Hopeless seems a little off (he implied that there is hope if you buy guns!)

And bitchslapping snoloco, while funny, is not quite the same as NoahJohn’s classic blast from days of yore.

So I rule this one an internet draw and both posters are free to flame another day.


----------



## Brownski

tirolski said:


> Since ya asked for it nicely.


If I ever get in front o real Hollywood bigwig I’m pitching a US version of this show set in Cherry Valley, NY


----------



## Brownski

Ripitz said:


> Oh shit! I think the ski off is back on. What’s it gonna be boys, mono-ski or ski-blades? Your choice.


I’m willing to officiate… at Greek on a Sunday morning


----------



## Ripitz

Iceface Men’s DH course


----------



## tirolski

MC2 said:


> So I rule this one an internet draw and both posters are free to flame another day.


OK
Everybody gets a flaming trophy unless there’s a flame off and then winner takes all. 
But take the smoke with ya as there’s been more than enough of that this year.


----------



## Campgottagopee

MC2 said:


> I don’t know, looking at these two statements, which is worse. RA has been kind of a downer lately. Hopeless seems a little off (he implied that there is hope if you buy guns!)
> 
> And bitchslapping snoloco, while funny, is not quite the same as NoahJohn’s classic blast from days of yore.
> 
> So I rule this one an internet draw and both posters are free to flame another day.


Nobody cares what you think ?


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Nobody cares what you think ?


Attaboy ?


----------



## MC2

Campgottagopee said:


> Nobody cares what you think ?


Sounds like you cared enough to comment, big boy


----------



## Campgottagopee

MC2 said:


> is not quite the same as NoahJohn’s classic blast from days of yore.


He was right.
I miss that guy. One of the funniest people on these here intrawebz that I've ever come across.


----------



## Warp daddy

Campgottagopee said:


> He was right.
> I miss that guy. One of the funniest people on these here intrawebz that I've ever come across.


I also miss da "Birdman " of the Dacks , he was also a laff riot?


----------



## Warp daddy

Damn Camp , we NEED the DIS here !! Gotta add some insanity to keep it lively just sayin'??


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> If I ever get in front o real Hollywood bigwig I’m pitching a US version of this show set in Cherry Valley, NY


Letterkenny is quite similar if not identical to parts of upstate culture, including Cherry Valley’s. so no need to change it.
There’s many parts of the upstate, with similar roadside stands, closer to Listowel Ontario than the big apple as the geeses fly.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Warp daddy said:


> Damn Camp , we NEED the DIS here !! Gotta add some insanity to keep it lively just sayin'??


Concur 

That dude was very special


----------



## Face4Me

Ripitz said:


> Iceface Men’s DH course


Hey ... Watch the "Iceface" stuff!!!


----------



## x10003q

Ripitz said:


> Iceface Men’s DH course
> View attachment 10235


Please stop posting this picture. Every time I see it I spend an hour staring at it.


----------



## Ripitz

Found one but it’s really short and the bindings don’t release. Looks sketchy AF.








World Monoboard 115 cm - Aspen Colorado - with LOFO Non-Release Bindings | eBay


World Ski Inc. You will not find too many of these in existence, not too many of these shorties were ever manufactured. If an item is tested and functioning I will list exactly what I observed and might give an opinion about it's functionality if I have an opinion.



www.ebay.com


----------



## wonderpony

There was a guy on a monoboard last year at GP. I followed him down a green a couple of times. It was pretty cool.


----------



## Harvey

Interesting. Saturdays for passholders only.

Especially interesting when you consider a pass is only $99.





__





Login • Instagram


Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.




www.instagram.com


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> Interesting. Saturdays for passholders only.
> 
> Especially interesting when you consider a pass is only $99.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Login • Instagram
> 
> 
> Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com


Lifetime passes available too for $1.3K, only selling a hundred though.
Most likely too old to breakeven but only $100 more than for a week’s tickets at Vail over Christmas if ya buy now.


----------



## x10003q

Harvey said:


> Interesting. Saturdays for passholders only.
> 
> Especially interesting when you consider a pass is only $99.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Login • Instagram
> 
> 
> Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com


Actually $129. 
I do not understand the Saturday season pass only. I guess they do not sell many $80 tickets on Saturday? Is is crowded on Saturday? They are going to scare away people who might want to give it a try on a Saturday and are 7 hours away (to Bohemia on Friday night and drive home Sunday) and did not know about the $129 deal. It is a bit of an odd marketing take. I guess they assume people are good at planning.


----------



## MarzNC

x10003q said:


> Actually $129.
> I do not understand the Saturday season pass only. I guess they do not sell many $80 tickets on Saturday? Is is crowded on Saturday? They are going to scare away people who might want to give it a try on a Saturday and are 7 hours away (to Bohemia on Friday night and drive home Sunday) and did not know about the $129 deal. It is a bit of an odd marketing take. I guess they assume people are good at planning.


What's 7 hours away from Bohemia during the winter? I thought it was a longer drive than that for most people.


----------



## x10003q

MarzNC said:


> What's 7 hours away from Bohemia during the winter? I thought it was a longer drive than that for most people.


The 7 hours is a general idea. Here are some rough times from major cities that might consider the drive.
Chicago 7:40, Minneapolis 6:45, Millwaukee 6:00, Detroit 9:30, Fargo, ND 9:00.
Most people have weekends off, so Saturday would be the day.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> Sounds like either I die, or the new normal will make me wish I did. Either way, I plan on enjoying the time I have left, unlike you, you hopeless sad sack.


Well that was aggressive. ?

it’s hard to stay positive seeing everything that happening out here in person. I’m still enjoying myself but what we have done to this world is extremely sad.

maybe out east it’s still easy to pretend it’s not happening but I can’t ignore it. Climate change is staring us right in the face and it’s picking up it’s pace, if you’re paying attention it’s downright terrifying. It’s definitely making me feel depressed though, I won’t lie.

PS. Getting worked up over lift lines the way you do doesn’t seem like fun either, some might say it’s kind of sad.


----------



## tirolski

RA,
No need to be terrified.
If it gets warmer around here there will be a longer growing season for plants but could be worse for skiing, if that’ll be still a thing.
Folks are doing trip reports from indoor skiing.

There’s way more than enough food.
Look at the size of some folks.

Folks have lived around here for a long time.
At least since the last ice age. 
That must’ve been good skiing conditions if ya ask me.
Have some faith.


----------



## Brownski

tirolski said:


> That must’ve been good skiing conditions if ya ask me.


I believe NYS’s earliest residents were snowshoers.


----------



## raisingarizona

tirolski said:


> RA,
> No need to be terrified.
> If it gets warmer around here there will be a longer growing season for plants but could be worse for skiing, if that’ll be still a thing.
> Folks are doing trip reports from indoor skiing.
> 
> There’s way more than enough food.
> Look at the size of some folks.
> 
> Folks have lived around here for a long time.
> At least since the last ice age.
> That must’ve been good skiing conditions if ya ask me.
> Have some faith.


There’s a lot more to it than that I’m afraid.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> There’s a lot more to it than that I’m afraid.


Yup.
Can read & get what yer sayin. 
I ain't a pretender.
Folks never promised ya a rose garden.
Tis a bit tacky but...


----------



## MiSkier

x10003q said:


> The 7 hours is a general idea. Here are some rough times from major cities that might consider the drive.
> Chicago 7:40, Minneapolis 6:45, Millwaukee 6:00, Detroit 9:30, Fargo, ND 9:00.
> Most people have weekends off, so Saturday would be the day.


Detroit is closer to 10-12 depending on the weather and when Bohemia is at its best the weather is not for driving. I personally have never been there, but a good friend of mine has been many times and they get very busy on the weekends


----------



## raisingarizona

We have schools here temporarily closing now because of outbreaks. They’ve been open for only three weeks.

A new strain has been discovered, is spreading and it’s unaffected by vaccines.

We are so F-d.


----------



## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> A new strain


What are they calling it?


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> What are they calling it?


Covid MU I think


----------



## raisingarizona

I’m here just to stoke Sno’s temper tantrum honestly ?


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> Covid MU I think


You're correct
shit








WHO investigating new COVID-19 variant named Mu


The World Health Organization said it is monitoring another new COVID-19 variant with mutations that they fear could make it resistant to vaccines.




nypost.com


----------



## ScottySkis

My friend mom who in her 70 had covid but she just got out of hospital very happy for her and her family great people.
?
""Mom is finally home after being in the hospital ? for almost a month from Covid""


----------



## Harvey

Hope to see your friend mom out on the hill this year.

A downside of no New Normal thread, there is no place to share good news.


----------



## ScottySkis

Aspen to require all employees to get vaccine








Aspen Will Mandate COVID-19 Vaccines for Employees


Aspen Ski Co. has announced they will require all employees to get the COVID-19 vaccine by November 15th, according to the Aspen Times. Only employees with valid religious or medical reasons will b…




unofficialnetworks.com


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> A downside of no New Normal thread, there is no place to share good news.


Is it dead 4 good?


----------



## wonderpony

Campgottagopee said:


> Is it dead 4 good?


Maybe we need "A Mu Normal" thread.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> Maybe we need "A Mu Normal" thread.


I def think we need something. There was a bunch of good infor in there.


----------



## Sbob

India's Ivermectin Blackout - Part III: The Lesson of Kerala


The Ivermectin Effect




www.thedesertreview.com


----------



## Harvey

It's fun to push Harv's buttons huh.

^^Maybe we can get this thread shut down too. Did I miss the skiing part?


----------



## Harvey

Campgottagopee said:


> Is it dead 4 good?


Not sure.

We can't even agree on what is good news. Is Scotty's post good news? (Don't answer that.) Everything is polarized. New Normal became the place where everyone would try to sneak their politics in.

Anything can be seen as political. Both lefties and righties think I'm favoring someone.

If you don't want politics here then HAMMER the guy who posts something political when you AGREE with him. Instead of just "liking" it.

When two sides can't agree on the facts, there a long list of things that we'll never be able to talk about.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Anything can be seen as political. Both lefties and righties think I'm favoring someone.


I'm going on the record saying I don't feel you're favoring anyone, any side, or anything.
The reason I asked is I miss Marz and her stats. 
I didn't mean to push anyone's buttons.


----------



## XTski

Campgottagopee said:


> I'm going on the record saying I don't feel you're favoring anyone, any side, or anything.
> The reason I asked is I miss Marz and her stats.
> I didn't mean to push anyone's buttons.


Darn straight he doesn’t favor people, politics is what makes this country strong, to try and tell people not to talk politics is un American, of course you have to be civil


----------



## Harvey

XTski said:


> Darn straight he doesn’t favor people, politics is what makes this country strong, to try and tell people not to talk politics is un American, of course you have to be civil


I guess I'm un-American. Moving forward, if you post about something in this thread that isn't related to skiing, you'll be excluded.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> I guess I'm un-American. Moving forward, if you post about something in this thread that isn't related to skiing, you'll be excluded.


Glad we aren’t Australia.








						Snow industry on brink of collapse after second winter without trade
					

Industry experts and retailers are concerned Australia's snow industry may not make it through to next year without significant aid from the state and federal governments, following a second winter without trade.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## snoloco

Vail has posted their operating plan for this season here. While this link is for Hunter, it's the exact same thing at all their resorts. For me, and anyone else who wanted a normal season, the mandatory indoor mask policy will come as a major disappointment. However, there is plenty of good news here. There will be no reservation system, all lifts (including gondolas) will return to full capacity, and no masks required outdoors. You win some you lose some I guess. I'm sure there are some hypochondriacs out there who didn't want full capacity lifts. They are also requiring proof of vaccination to eat inside. Though I'm not an Epic Pass holder, last year, many other resorts modeled their operational plans from Vail, so it is relevant.


----------



## Harvey

Thanks for posting that sno.


----------



## G.ski

Not surprising. Actually a relief in most regards. I'll be interested to see how the indoor mask policy plays out.


----------



## snoloco

For the lift capacity, and no masks outdoors, yes definitely a relief. For the indoor mask mandate, I consider it a disappointment, though not a surprise. I believe their hand was forced in that regard. Apparently there is a law requiring Forest Service permit holders to enforce all CDC recommendations. This affects nearly all of their western resorts, so they applied the same thing everywhere.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> For the lift capacity, and no masks outdoors, yes definitely a relief. For the indoor mask mandate, I consider it a disappointment, though not a surprise. I believe their hand was forced in that regard. Apparently there is a law requiring Forest Service permit holders to enforce all CDC recommendations. This affects nearly all of their western resorts, so they applied the same thing everywhere.


There’s mandatory vaccinations for anyone working with federal employees or on federal lands. It’s about to be mandatory for conservation corps.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> For the lift capacity, and no masks outdoors, yes definitely a relief. For the indoor mask mandate, I consider it a disappointment, though not a surprise. I believe their hand was forced in that regard. Apparently there is a law requiring Forest Service permit holders to enforce all CDC recommendations. This affects nearly all of their western resorts, so they applied the same thing everywhere.


Be interesting to see how many use the lodges. At Gore I went in twice last year, and it was empty. If they stick with their mask requirement I probably go in a few times this year too.


----------



## snoloco

There were some times last year at Gore when I went into the Saddle Lodge, saw how packed it was and immediately left. The lodge capacity seemed like the one covid restriction that ORDA didn't overzealously enforce.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

The base lodge at Gore was worse. For some reason they took all the tables out of the main room and packed everyone into the 2 small back rooms. What were they thinking?

mm


----------



## snoloco

Much like half capacity lifts making the lines much longer. Solve one problem and create another.


----------



## Harvey

I guess I was in the base at the wrong times (7:30 am). The right times. Never went in the saddle.


----------



## jasonwx

At least I can boot up inside


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Vail has posted their operating plan for this season here. While this link is for Hunter, it's the exact same thing at all their resorts. For me, and anyone else who wanted a normal season, the mandatory indoor mask policy will come as a major disappointment. However, there is plenty of good news here. There will be no reservation system, all lifts (including gondolas) will return to full capacity, and no masks required outdoors. You win some you lose some I guess. I'm sure there are some hypochondriacs out there who didn't want full capacity lifts. They are also requiring proof of vaccination to eat inside. Though I'm not an Epic Pass holder, last year, many other resorts modeled their operational plans from Vail, so it is relevant.


It's early in the ballgame. The trend would suggest this will change, and not a change we will like.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> Be interesting to see how many use the lodges. At Gore I went in twice last year, and it was empty. If they stick with their mask requirement I probably go in a few times this year too.


Never set foot in a lodge last year. 
Went to the bar a couple times for a draft but drank em on the heated patio outside in the sunshine.
Some folks did some grillin too.
EZ Peazy.


----------



## Harvey

jasonwx said:


> At least I can boot up inside


You're back in the game bro!


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I booted up in the Gore lodge last year after about mid-season, but by the end of the year I was dragging chairs out of the bar into the big room. The back rooms were too crowded for me. Otherwise I didn't spend too much time inside, and I didn't miss it. I don't mind booting up in the car if I can park in the first lot.

The few days I skied at ABasin it was easier to change shoes in the car than to go into the lodge.

The outdoor rules are way more important to me than the indoor rules. 

mm


----------



## Dmoss

Straight Brook Lodge at the summit of Gore was a good place for bagged lunch or the warming hut on top of Burnt Ridge. I tried to avoid all other lodges, boot up at the car etc. Probably do much of the same this year. 

I hope they come up with better system for the Gondola line. White Face had a decent system that seemed to move the line and keep people relatively distant.


----------



## snoloco

Dmoss said:


> Straight Brook Lodge at the summit of Gore was a good place for bagged lunch or the warming hut on top of Burnt Ridge. I tried to avoid all other lodges, boot up at the car etc. Probably do much of the same this year.
> 
> I hope they come up with better system for the Gondola line. White Face had a decent system that seemed to move the line and keep people relatively distant.


Vail Resorts is returning to full lift capacity and regular queue configurations, so you won't be kept distant. Not as confident in ORDA doing that.


----------



## G.ski

Dmoss said:


> Straight Brook Lodge at the summit of Gore was a good place for bagged lunch or the warming hut on top of Burnt Ridge. I tried to avoid all other lodges, boot up at the car etc. Probably do much of the same this year.
> 
> I hope they come up with better system for the Gondola line. White Face had a decent system that seemed to move the line and keep people relatively distant.


Frankly the best strategy for a gondola line would be to make people keep their skis on in the line until just before loading.


----------



## XTski

tjf. Your sister is a hero, she had your back so you did the right thing turning in your n-95 masks to 1st responders, as I said it was early in the pandemic that Marznc was bragging about using N-95 masks for skiing , that is what is meant by privilege and it makes the rest of us skiers look bad


----------



## XTski

Since I was blocked from explaining my position I stopped posting on this site furtunately a number of you nice people told me about other sites that are run bye cool people, peace


----------



## Dmoss

I agree, Gore did that for a brief period last season and it worked well. 

The way WhiteFace had their RFID scanners towards the beginning of the line and then they limited how many people could que up right by the loading area which was split into 4 separate lines.


----------



## gorgonzola

G.ski said:


> Frankly the best strategy for a gondola line would be to make people keep their skis on in the line until just before loading.


that's what gore was doing when we were there, seemed to work pretty well


----------



## G.ski

Belleayre did it as well.


----------



## Harvey

Was the mountain actually directing that or did it just happen?

A poll:

Do you care more about getting covid, or someone skiing on the tops of your skis?


----------



## gorgonzola

Harvey said:


> Was the mountain actually directing that or did it just happen?
> 
> A poll:
> 
> Do you care more about getting covid, or someone skiing on the tops of your skis?


they were enforcing it, i was reminded a few times when i clicked out from habit
yes ski's were stepped on and kids and gapers fell over


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> Do you care more about getting covid, or someone skiing on the tops of your skis


LOL
I've always been baffled by those who cherish the cosmetics of their skis. I have a couple buddies that are that way. They're skis, tools to go down hill, don't care what they look like. Don't care if I trash them because they can be fixed or replaced.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

If I get a new a pair of skis and they're not all scraped up and trashed by the end of the season I figure I haven't been doing my job.

mm


----------



## Endoftheline

Campgottagopee said:


> LOL
> I've always been baffled by those who cherish the cosmetics of their skis. I have a couple buddies that are that way. They're skis, tools to go down hill, don't care what they look like. Don't care if I trash them because they can be fixed or replaced.


Agree Camp. The bottoms of the skis are the important part, not the tops. IMO.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Endoftheline said:


> Agree Camp. The bottoms of the skis are the important part, not the tops. IMO.


This is true but even the bottoms don't freak me out. Who cares if I have a little chunk out of the bottom, burr on the edge. I ain't racing on the WC so I ain't even worried about that. If I blow a sidewall out I'll just flip that to the outside and let em rip.


----------



## Harvey

You miss out on stuff if you care too much about your skis.









The Hickory Ski Center Blog


Not gone or forgotten.




nyskiblog.com


----------



## trackbiker

I don't worry about the top sheets of my skis too much. They usually get covered with snow anyway. But regardless, I would rather be the one to scratch them up than the idiot behind me walking on them.


----------



## Harvey

As a second-tier tele skier, I bang the crap out of my skis (and my boots) with my ski edges. 99% of the damage is from me.


----------



## XTski

Note the date August 2021! As I said N95 are for first responders! Unless you live under a rock or bumfuck Tennessee everybody on this forum should have known this already for someone to use them to fly to ski is disrespectful of the American people who refuse to use them , that is why you don’t see many people wearing them, of course you can find them but I recommend Harvey not getting them for your employee’s also, as I said I could not work if I wore one to a clients house as they are smart enough to know where the N95 masks belong , even tho I worked construction for so long and I know the importance of using them during construction I refuse to buy them for workers, I don’t know why Harvey chose to treat me like an ass and puts Marz on a pedestal, but that is why I am pissed off at the brazen disregard for out first responders


----------



## XTski

Fortunately some of you awesome people informed me about a forum where the dude Marz isn’t on there spreading stories of his privileged diva like behavior


----------



## Tjf1967

XTski said:


> View attachment 10551View attachment 10552
> Note the date August 2021! As I said N95 are for first responders! Unless you live under a rock or bumfuck Tennessee everybody on this forum should have known this already for someone to use them to fly to ski is disrespectful of the American people who refuse to use them , that is why you don’t see many people wearing them, of course you can find them but I recommend Harvey not getting them for your employee’s also, as I said I could not work if I wore one to a clients house as they are smart enough to know where the N95 masks belong , even tho I worked construction for so long and I know the importance of using them during construction I refuse to buy them for workers, I don’t know why Harvey chose to treat me like an ass and puts Marz on a pedestal, but that is why I am pissed off at the brazen disregard for out first responders


If they are not in short supply why do you care if people are wearing them? Next thing you know you are going to start getting on my case I wear thongs


----------



## NYSkiBlog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441145532680867840


----------



## x10003q

Tjf1967 said:


> If they are not in short supply why do you care if people are wearing them? Next thing you know you are going to start getting on my case I wear thongs


There is a shortage of thongs? Noooooooooooooo.......


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> There is a shortage of thongs?


Not at TJ's house!


----------



## x10003q

Campgottagopee said:


> Not at TJ's house!


I am glad we cleared that up!!


----------



## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> This is true but even the bottoms don't freak me out. Who cares if I have a little chunk out of the bottom, burr on the edge. I ain't racing on the WC so I ain't even worried about that. If I blow a sidewall out I'll just flip that to the outside and let em rip.


Here, here!

My younger brother is always whining if he hits a rock when he’s with me. That’s what ptex is for, a base weld ain’t that expensive if you need to pay to have it done.

Here’s the ironical thing…that cheap sob hasn’t bought himself (or his kids) a new pair of skis in decades (ever). Hell, the last five years he’s been skiing on shit I’ve given him!


----------



## G.ski

JTG said:


> Here, here!
> 
> My younger brother is always whining if he hits a rock when he’s with me. That’s what ptex is for, a base weld ain’t that expensive if you need to pay to have it done.
> 
> Here’s the ironical thing…that cheap sob hasn’t bought himself (or his kids) a new pair of skis in decades (ever). Hell, the last five years he’s been skiing on shit I’ve given him!


I have a friend like that. I just gave him an old pair of rock skis.


----------



## ScottySkis

Sadd that resort in Australia has to close








Thredbo Resort, Australia, Closing For the Season Due to Covid Restrictions - SnowBrains


Thredbo in Australia announced on Monday that Sunday will be the last day of this year's season––they will be closing early due covid-19




snowbrains.com


----------



## MarzNC

ScottySkis said:


> Sadd that resort in Australia has to close
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thredbo Resort, Australia, Closing For the Season Due to Covid Restrictions - SnowBrains
> 
> 
> Thredbo in Australia announced on Monday that Sunday will be the last day of this year's season––they will be closing early due covid-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snowbrains.com


Not really closing just due to lockdowns in the major cities in Australia. The approach Australia took to the pandemic was and continues to be very different from the USA. Has more in common with Canada.

Spring came early. Hasn't been any snow on the lower mountain for a week or more. Although during a normal late season, the snow guns might have continued running longer in early Sep.

See this post for a picture of where the snow ends.





__





Snow Report - Thredbo 2021 Trip Reports, Pics, Updates and Conditions.


The work continues…




www.ski.com.au


----------



## NYSkiBlog

Vermont Ski Resorts Face Worker Shortage As They Prepare For Upcoming Season


With travel restrictions loosened, many in the ski industry hoped this season would be easier.But a housing crunch and worker shortage — problems that have been simmering for years — have worsened since the pandemic.




www.vpr.org


----------



## tirolski

Who wants a job at the Big K?
They’re hiring.








Vermont Ski Resorts Face Worker Shortage As They Prepare For Upcoming Season


With travel restrictions loosened, many in the ski industry hoped this season would be easier.But a housing crunch and worker shortage — problems that have been simmering for years — have worsened since the pandemic.




www.vpr.org


----------



## tirolski

Wanna watch the 2022 winter Olympics in person? 
Not much chance unless ya make a team or live in China’s mainland.








Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games Beijing 2022 - Updates on Spectators, Vaccination and COVID-19 Countermeasures - Olympic News


The International Olympic Committee (IOC) held an Executive Board (EB) meeting today, in the presence of the International Paralympic Committee (IPC). Beijing 2022 informed the EB of the principles that will help deliver safe and successful Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games as scheduled.




olympics.com


----------



## Campgottagopee

NYSkiBlog said:


> Vermont Ski Resorts Face Worker Shortage As They Prepare For Upcoming Season
> 
> 
> With travel restrictions loosened, many in the ski industry hoped this season would be easier.But a housing crunch and worker shortage — problems that have been simmering for years — have worsened since the pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vpr.org


This will be a big issue this winter, not only for VT but I imagine all ski areas will be struggling to fill open positions. Time will tell.


----------



## Brownski

I’d say so. Junior is gonna be a liftie over Christmas break again but after that his availability is gonna be like one night a week.


----------



## MarzNC

Campgottagopee said:


> This will be a big issue this winter, not only for VT but I imagine all ski areas will be struggling to fill open positions. Time will tell.


Yep. Although being able to have some J-1 employees will help some resorts.

I saw that Aspen wasn't going to bother with H2B visas. Those are usually for very experienced ski instructors from South America. Could be that Aspen isn't going to count of S. Americans behind able to get into the USA this winter.

Last winter, I heard that Colorado resorts had more college age employees than usual. There were students who decided to take a gap year instead of doing a year's worth of courses online. That probably won't be the case for 2021-22.


----------



## XTski

Tjf1967 said:


> If they are not in short supply why do you care if people are wearing them? Next thing you know you are going to start getting on my case I wear thongs


you can’t be serious?? So you buy them non first responders? You can find anything on the internet, but if everyone got them for selfish stuff like flying to ski like Marznc does then they would NOT be available , fortunately I have not seen any others who are either clueless to this or are just plain selfish where I live, it just makes skiers look like privileged idiots in my opinion


----------



## Campgottagopee

XTski said:


> you can’t be serious?? So you buy them non first responders? You can find anything on the internet, but if everyone got them for selfish stuff like flying to ski like Marznc does then they would NOT be available , fortunately I have not seen any others who are either clueless to this or are just plain selfish where I live, it just makes skiers look like privileged idiots in my opinion


Yo bud 
Let's just drop it? That horse you're beating the shit out of is dead. 
Juss sayin'


----------



## MarzNC

Not that I care what others may think, but I never use N95 at all. Neither does my high-risk husband. He'll use KN95 when in a higher risk situation or a cloth mask otherwise.

I do care when someone lies about me. I never said that I wore one on a plane because I don't. I used KN95 in Dec 2020, then switched to Primal 2.0 with the filter installed for ski trips in 2021. What I've said because it's true is that my physician ski buddy used N95 on planes. He obviously needed to be very careful before he was vaccinated in late Dec 2020 since he was helping to care for COVID-19 patients during that surge.


----------



## Brownski

Campgottagopee said:


> Yo bud
> Let's just drop it? That horse you're beating the shit out of is dead.
> Juss sayin'


Seconded. We all know what everybody else thinks of N95 use at this point.


----------



## Ripitz

Thirded


----------



## XTski

Campgottagopee said:


> Yo bud
> Let's just drop it? That horse you're beating the shit out of is dead.
> Juss sayin'


was not talking to you as you said before you didn’t give a shit, that was for the dude who thought it was okay, no big deal, don’t read if you don’t want


----------



## XTski

MarzNC said:


> Not that I care what others may think, but I never use N95 at all. Neither does my high-risk husband. He'll use KN95 when in a higher risk situation or a cloth mask otherwise.
> 
> I do care when someone lies about me. I never said that I wore one on a plane because I don't. I used KN95 in Dec 2020, then switched to Primal 2.0 with the filter installed for ski trips in 2021. What I've said because it's true is that my physician ski buddy used N95 on planes. He obviously needed to be very careful before he was vaccinated in late Dec 2020 since he was helping to care for COVID-19 patients during that surge.


Should I post a screen shot of it on here? Why make excuses for someone wearing a n 95 mask to ski back when NON were available?


----------



## Ripitz

XTski said:


> no big deal


You’re right


----------



## XTski

Brownski said:


> Seconded. We all know what everybody else thinks of N95 use at this point.


I was off here a while , too much balony info from someone who blatantly disregarded what most in this country are doing, it seems they now understand that N 95 use wasn’t a good idea so that’s a go thing, I saw someone posted a sweet post got my interest here back for a bit and I caught up, but again it was just for the dude who said they are available, ski hard


----------



## Harvey

So to recap.

Marz may or may not have worn a mask one time that may or may not have been in short supply at that time.

XT is offended.

Can we move on?


----------



## CNY Skier

Harvey gets the "brevity is the soul of wit" award for the mask summary...well done! It seems that everyone has one grievance or another these days.

Moving back on topic, how do you all think the upcoming ski season will be affected by the current state of the covid situation? I am looking at two weeks in VT (Jan 24 - Feb 5) as a reward for never ending 60+ hours/week of work and expected AirBNB prices to be way down but it seems that they are actually _higher_ this year. Was planning on one week for family (wife, kids, grand kids, etc.) and one week for just the guys...not sure if my budget can handle it now that I've seen the prices. Clearly there is already a high demand despite the predicted worker shortages at the resorts.

On a darker note, I'm afraid that cases/deaths will spike to astronomical record levels this Winter so it may be a mostly X-C season for the second year in a row. I do love X-C and it's a great workout but it's not downhill. Fortunately I'm wrong at least 1/2 of the time so it's easily a 50-50 bet.


----------



## raisingarizona

I haven’t thought about covid for months now. 

It’s very nice.


----------



## Campgottagopee

MarzNC said:


> Not that I care what others may think, but I never use N95 at all. Neither does my high-risk husband. He'll use KN95 when in a higher risk situation or a cloth mask otherwise.
> 
> I do care when someone lies about me. I never said that I wore one on a plane because I don't. I used KN95 in Dec 2020, then switched to Primal 2.0 with the filter installed for ski trips in 2021. What I've said because it's true is that my physician ski buddy used N95 on planes. He obviously needed to be very careful before he was vaccinated in late Dec 2020 since he was helping to care for COVID-19 patients during that surge.


Rt on Marz.


----------



## Campgottagopee

raisingarizona said:


> I haven’t thought about covid for months now.
> 
> It’s very nice.


Good thing you gave up nursing school
I can't get away from it


----------



## DomB

Campgottagopee said:


> Good thing you gave up nursing school
> I can't get away from it


Sorry Camp. Your partner is one of many heroes. Real heroes.


----------



## DomB

FWIW, when I am in riskier situations I do the disposable under a cloth mask; at least the info I have seen suggests that it gives protection comparable to a KN-95 or N-95. 

One of the reasons I do that is because of my understanding that a health care worker, or other essential folks need an N-95 way more than me or most of us.


----------



## Harvey

I guess the topic is back.

Counterpoint: Buying an N95 is patriotic.









						U.S. Companies Shifted To Make N95 Respirators During COVID. Now, They're Struggling
					

When an N95 respirator shortage left hospitals scrambling in 2020, U.S. manufacturers stepped in. Now, those companies are facing bankruptcies and layoffs as Chinese-made masks flood the market again.




					www.npr.org


----------



## Campgottagopee

DomB said:


> Sorry Camp. Your partner is one of many heroes. Real heroes.


Thanks but as I tell her, we're in this together. It really is a shame that this go around isn't getting the media attention it did before. These healthcare workers are wore the F out. They need help as there isn't enough of them to provide safe care for their patients, and administration really doesn't seem to care about that. Send in nurses and doc's from the National Guard or something like that. Shit will hit the fan if something isn't done.


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Shit will hit the fan if something isn't done.


It’s been a shit show for quite awhile.
Just don’t get hit with it if at all possible.


----------



## DomB

Harvey said:


> I guess the topic is back.
> 
> Counterpoint: Buying an N95 is patriotic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Companies Shifted To Make N95 Respirators During COVID. Now, They're Struggling
> 
> 
> When an N95 respirator shortage left hospitals scrambling in 2020, U.S. manufacturers stepped in. Now, those companies are facing bankruptcies and layoffs as Chinese-made masks flood the market again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org


I am sorry - I replied and then realized that this was a heated issue. My bad. I should 'listen' more, speak less sometimes.


----------



## DomB

Campgottagopee said:


> Thanks but as I tell her, we're in this together. It really is a shame that this go around isn't getting the media attention it did before. These healthcare workers are wore the F out. They need help as there isn't enough of them to provide safe care for their patients, and administration really doesn't seem to care about that. Send in nurses and doc's from the National Guard or something like that. Shit will hit the fan if something isn't done.


Agree. I don't know if it is because of the 20 minute news cycle we are in, but it aint good. I am sure some of the consumers of the news are just tired (which is very unfair the health care workers dealing with sick patients, including some who choose not to get vaccinated). Then all this stuff has become political (and I really don't care what anyone's politics are). 

I saw yesterday Pfizer submitted for approval for 5-11 to get vaccinated; I can't wait until my kids (who are in that age group) can get it.


----------



## Harvey

CNY Skier said:


> Moving back on topic,


Thank you.


----------



## MarzNC

ABasin announced their vaccination requirement for employees a few weeks ago. At the time, over 90% of the current employees were already vaccinated.

September 17, 2021








						Employee Vaccination Mandate
					

Managing Arapahoe Basin through the COVID era has been an extraordinary challenge for all of us that work at the resort. From the beginning ...




					arapahoebasin.blogspot.com
				




Snowbird made an announcement about employee vaccination in early Oct. The info is on the general COVID-19 webpage plus the Jobs webpage.


----------



## XTski

Harvey said:


> So to recap.
> 
> Marz may or may not have worn a mask one time that may or may not have been in short supply at that time.
> 
> XT is offended.
> 
> Can we move on?


You move on as you wish that is what you fucking do anyway right? Why say Marz only did that one time? make others look like shit but cover for that ugly spammer? if you had friends/family working construction breathing dirt you would be pissed off at someone wearing N-95 masks for skiing but you don’t and it shows


----------



## Tjf1967

XTski said:


> You move on as you wish that is what you fucking do anyway right? Why say Marz only did that one time? make others look like shit but cover for that ugly spammer? if you had friends/family working construction breathing dirt you would be pissed off at someone wearing N-95 masks for skiing but you don’t and it shows



https://www.betterhelp.com/therapists/?help_with=Anxiety&utm_source=AdWords&utm_medium=Search_PPC_m&utm_term=anxiety+hotline_e&utm_content=38492129933&network=g&placement&target&matchtype=e&utm_campaign=741974393&ad_type=text&adposition&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6RmjQIeWIbhfCn5PEPwEdvxOhIYN4VMSnmRsQzfWrizxX-hjyCcgUokAaAjavEALw_wcB


----------



## Ripitz

Isn’t there a wave somewhere to be paddled?


----------



## Harvey

XTski said:


> You move on as you wish that is what you fucking do anyway right? Why say Marz only did that one time? make others look like shit but cover for that ugly spammer? if you had friends/family working construction breathing dirt you would be pissed off at someone wearing N-95 masks for skiing but you don’t and it shows



I have no idea what mask Marz wears, or when she wore them. Based on your comments, I assume you must be very handsome. Post a selfie.

I do have friends in construction, I saw them this weekend. They seem to think masks are silly. They've all had covid too. They certainly don't wear masks when digging dirt, that's what we were doing this weekend.

All I can figure is that you're looking for something to be mad about.


----------



## Campgottagopee

And I thought my pitbull wouldn't let things go


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> I have no idea what mask Marz wears, or when she wore them.


For my flight to ski in Utah in Dec 2020, I wore KN95. After that I used the Primal 2.0 with a filter inserted. Lately I'm using the Primal without the filter at my fitness center. After going on a few "free Fridays" I decided it made sense to re-start my membership. Wanted to use the weight machines as part of pre-season ski conditioning.

My high-risk husband has never used N95. He's retired and doesn't really need to go out that much. But he's not a worrier. First time we ate out a few times was in Sept 2020, both near our home and on a trip to Asheville to visit our daughter. He was using cloth masks before Delta made it to NC. Now he uses KN95 if he's going to be indoors for more than 15-20 min.

We have never had an N95 in our house for any reason. The skiers I know who use N95 when traveling are all physicians.


----------



## Brownski

I think this is an instance of getting an idea stuck in your head and not being able to let go of it, like people who are still disinfecting their groceries with Lysol wipes. There was a shortage of PPE early on in this thing last year but it’s been a long time since that was overcome. If any health workers are wanting for N95s now it’s due to mismanagement by their employer, not a generalized shortage.


----------



## G.ski

I hope we can all let go of the anger and fear soon.
It seems there are some of us bent on keeping us in an irrational state of hysteria permanently. 
I'm interested to see how this all plays out. Who will win, since "winning" (whatever that means?) seems to be all that some folks care about.
I never worried much about this pandemic and I don't care at all now.


----------



## MarzNC

The southeast ski resorts are taking lessons learned in 2020-21 to heart as they complete planning for 2021-22. With the cold temps and snowstorms last winter, it turned out to be a good season from a financial standpoint even with much lower F&B revenue. Online ticketing and RFID lift access has become the norm in the region. Massanutten is celebrating 50 years by implementing RFID, creating a new teaching/beginner area and announcing major expansion plans for the next few years.

The Indy Pass locations in the region are Bryce, Massanutten, Canaan Valley, Winterplace, and Cataloochee.

Here's a summary, with comments from people in charge of a few SE resorts (NC, VA, WV).

October 20, 2021








Resorts Hope To Use Momentum, Lessons Learned From 2020-21 Season


With the 2021-22 ski season rapidly approaching, you can hear the excitement in the air at the Southeast ski resorts. Don’t believe it? Ask Winterplace’s Tom Wagner who can hear...




www.skisoutheast.com


----------



## tirolski

Vermont Digger article on the upcoming season.








Vermont ski resorts prep for winter with significantly looser pandemic restrictions


While most rules from last winter will likely be lifted, some resorts are hanging on to things like mobile ticket purchasing and limited season pass sales, aiming to enhance the skier experience.



vtdigger.org


----------



## Campgottagopee

G.ski said:


> I never worried much about this pandemic and I don't care at all now.


It's the deadliest pandemic in our history, I think you should care a little.


----------



## tirolski

"_Authorities have said eradicating the virus is their biggest challenge in the run-up to the Winter Olympics, which Beijing is due to host in under 100 days_."








Shanghai Disneyland closes for two days after visitor tests positive for COVID


Shanghai Disneyland was locked down Sunday so 33,863 park visitors could be tested for COVID-19, and the park will remain closed until Wednesday.




nypost.com


----------



## Benny Profane

Campgottagopee said:


> It's the deadliest pandemic in our history, I think you should care a little
> .





Campgottagopee said:


> It's the deadliest pandemic in our history, I think you should care a little.


Per Capita the 1918 flu is still worse.


----------



## Benny Profane

I found these on Amazon that will work well on a landyard under a jacket or sweater.

3 Pack Vaccine Card Holder Vaccine Card Protectors Waterproof with Resealable Zip CDC Vaccination Immunization Card Protector Sleeve Cover for Vaccination Card Plastic Vaccine Holder Card Cover https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092VZDZP...abc_053285YS2VB82CV0R5WR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## MarzNC

Benny Profane said:


> I found these on Amazon that will work well on a landyard under a jacket or sweater.
> 
> 3 Pack Vaccine Card Holder Vaccine Card Protectors Waterproof with Resealable Zip CDC Vaccination Immunization Card Protector Sleeve Cover for Vaccination Card Plastic Vaccine Holder Card Cover https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092VZDZP...abc_053285YS2VB82CV0R5WR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I would hope people won't need to carry their CDC card with them. Most events requiring vaccination are okay with a picture on a phone. I bring my card along on trips but it stays in my car or room.

A few Canadian provinces have apps that seem similar to what NY did.


----------



## MarzNC

Speaking of Canada, RCR has decided to require vaccination not only for indoor spaces but also for chairlifts. They can make use of the app available for checking vaccination status.

This is from the Kicking Horse website. It applies to Fernie, Kimberly, and Nakiska too. Plus Monte-Sainte Anne and Stoneham. They are on Epic.


----------



## Benny Profane

No way non Canadians and non Europeans are going to get registered on an app In those countries. But they say our cards are good. So, I think that cheezy paper card will survive well and will be easily accessed in that sleeve hung around your neck. Needs to be protected, imagine if you lost it.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> Speaking of Canada, RCR has decided to require vaccination not only for indoor spaces but also for chairlifts. They can make use of the app available for checking vaccination status.
> 
> This is from the Kicking Horse website. It applies to Fernie, Kimberly, and Nakiska too. Plus Monte-Sainte Anne and Stoneham.


Mont-Sainte-Anne’s website says differently, just sayin.
_*According to current Public Health guidelines, the Vaccination Passport will not be required for outdoor free practice sports activities, such as skiing. However, it is mandatory to present one's Vaccination Passport and an ID card for service at the Chouette bar. Thank you for your cooperation!*_​








COVID 19 - Winter 2021.2022 | Ski alpin au Mont-Sainte-Anne







mont-sainte-anne.com


----------



## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Mont-Sainte-Anne’s website says differently, just sayin.
> _*According to current Public Health guidelines, the Vaccination Passport will not be required for outdoor free practice sports activities, such as skiing. However, it is mandatory to present one's Vaccination Passport and an ID card for service at the Chouette bar. Thank you for your cooperation!*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID 19 - Winter 2021.2022 | Ski alpin au Mont-Sainte-Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mont-sainte-anne.com


Stand corrected. Although that's from September I think. The vaccination info for Kicking Horse and Nakiska is dated Nov. 1, 2021.

I didn't bother to check the entire list posted on another ski forum. But makes some sense because Mont-Sainte-Anne is in Québec. The Canadian provinces aren't any more consistent about public health rules related to COVID-19 than the American states. Guess RCR is more like Alterra than Vail Resorts. There are differences in operations between resorts depending on region.

Can't even find anything for the upcoming season on the Stoneham website. The latest info is from April 2021 . . . last season.


----------



## snoloco

Vaccination proof required for all ski areas in Quebec. Lifts at full capacity. 





__





Saison 2021-2022 - Association des Stations de ski du Québec


L'ASSQ vous donne de l'information sur les différentes stations de ski du Québec : conditions de neige, cours d'initiation, forfaits.



maneige.ski


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> Vaccination proof required for all ski areas in Quebec. Lifts at full capacity. https://maneige.ski/saison-2021-2022/


Yup. Just announced today.


https://maneige.ski/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/cp_passeport-vaccinal_2_novembre_2021_final_en.pdf


----------



## MarzNC

This is what was announced on CTV in Montreal. Québec has been working on a vaccine passport for a while. Interesting about "scarf and neck warmer" being acceptable.

_"In order to allow them to operate at full capacity, a vaccination passport will be required for all activities requiring the use of a ski lift including downhill skiing and tubing. People must wear a face cover in closed gondolas, though and scarf and neck warmer will be considered acceptable.

A vaccination passport will not be required for outdoor winter sports and activities such as cross-country skiing, hockey, though participants must be able to keep one metre apart, and masks will be required in indoor facilities, like chalets and cabins. A vaccination passport and mask will be required to access catering areas and bars."_


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> This is what was announced on CTV in Montreal. Québec has been working on a vaccine passport for a while. Interesting about "scarf and neck warmer" being acceptable.
> _A vaccination passport will not be required for outdoor winter sports and activities such as cross-country skiing, hockey, though participants must be able to keep one metre apart, and masks will be required in indoor facilities, like chalets and cabins. A vaccination passport and mask will be required to access catering areas and bars."_


Sad story regarding fully vaccinated folks playin hockey recently in Ontario.








Organizer of fully vaccinated Ontario hockey league where COVID-19 outbreak hit looks for answers


The organizer of an adult hockey league in Newmarket, Ont. is looking for answers after one of his players died and 14 others who were all fully vaccinated became infected with COVID-19 in a matter of days.




toronto.ctvnews.ca


----------



## snoloco

I hate these clickbait headlines. From what I can tell, all the cases that came from that event were mild or asymptomatic. In my opinion, a huge impediment to getting back to normal and restoring the economy has been the failure of public health authorities, elected officials, and the media to bifurcate raw case numbers and severe outcomes. It causes people to overestimate their risk and not feel safe.


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> I hate these clickbait headlines. From what I can tell, all the cases that came from that event were mild or asymptomatic. In my opinion, a huge impediment to getting back to normal and restoring the economy has been the failure of public health authorities, elected officials, and the media to bifurcate raw case numbers and severe outcomes. It causes people to overestimate their risk and not feel safe.


Sorry, just came across it.
I thought it was odd that according to Marz’s italics above ya could play hockey outdoors without a passport but ya couldn’t ride a chairlift, allegedly. Didn’t make sense to me.
Here’s a non-clickbait from their local news.
Folks are trying to find out what happened. 
www.thestar.com/local-newmarket/news/2021/11/01/is-indoor-hockey-safe-the-search-for-answers-in-mysterious-covid-19-outbreak.


----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> bifurcate


Sounds serious to me


----------



## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Sorry,
> Here’s a non-clickbait from their local news.
> Folks are trying to find out what happened.
> www.thestar.com/local-newmarket/news/2021/11/01/is-indoor-hockey-safe-the-search-for-answers-in-mysterious-covid-19-outbreak.


Ah, so the death was of a 75 year old. 

Guess the people writing the articles probably didn't hear about the July 4th breakthrough cases on Cape Cod that made it clear being fully vaccinated does NOT prevent getting COVID-19. That's what lead to the change in recommendations for masking indoors. The vaccines are only designed to make it much less likely that someone who gets infected doesn't have serious symptoms or dies.

Something like 75% of the breakthrough deaths in the CDC data are of people over 65, with many over 80.

_"A “mystifying” COVID-19 outbreak among fully vaccinated adult rec hockey players in York Region has led to calls for a full investigation.

The virus spread like wildfire among players in adult leagues earlier this month — with 15 confirmed cases and one 75-year-old’s death — and has raised a spiderweb of concerns about indoor sport safety, vaccine verification and dangers that might be lurking in the air, especially in hockey rinks and older facilities.
. . ."_


----------



## MarzNC

Hockey was an issue in Vermont last winter as I remember. That was when Vermont had travel restrictions. The hockey players were juniors at a tournament as I remember. I think the adults were the ones who got and spread COVID-19.

For the pro hockey playoffs, the arenas that were used added big air cleaners to greatly improve airflow. I read about it for the Raleigh arena since the Hurricanes made it into the playoffs. The entire lower section of seats were flow. Only 50% capacity but the players said it was very loud and sounded like a full house. The ticket prices for the lower section were reduced to encourage people to attend and sit in better seats closer to the ice. There weren't any headlines of surges after those games. Of course, that was before Delta arrived in the USA.


----------



## MarzNC

In general, the countries and regions that had relatively few cases last winter because of lock downs or other public health measures are starting to encounter the reality that Delta transmission is much higher. And that breakthrough cases happen, and are expected. So anyone with any sort of vulnerability should be taking precautions and not just going about living as if the pandemic is over.

It's still the case that someone with COVID-19 can be contagious but have no symptoms. They may have no idea they are exposing other people to SARS-CoV-2 by just breathing or talking or shouting near those people.


----------



## snoloco

I think reality is starting to set in that there's no stopping covid, and the best you can do is get everyone vaccinated. It's settled science that older people are at higher risk, which why boosters are available now.


----------



## tirolski

Vermont’s Mad River valley folks discuss the the start of their upcoming season.


----------



## Tellingtruths

MarzNC said:


> Speaking of Canada, RCR has decided to require vaccination not only for indoor spaces but also for chairlifts. They can make use of the app available for checking vaccination status.
> 
> This is from the Kicking Horse website. It applies to Fernie, Kimberly, and Nakiska too. Plus Monte-Sainte Anne and Stoneham. They are on Epic.
> 
> View attachment 10842


So yall don't think this is Ridiculous? How many people think this is ok but don't wear a helmet for ex. Or wear flip flops climbing a 13er. Proof of vacc to ride a lift will not protect you in Any way. Look, jab if you want, but you must know you too can spread and get the virus. This is why 3, 4 jabs ... So, Treatments are the key. Travel with necessary treatments, like you do for possible altitude sickness when you go to a CO high one. It's that easy. We don't need to be mean to healthy people or those that cannot do jabs.


----------



## Tellingtruths

I'm an Adaptive PSIA certified ski instructor. Been told I am not welcome due to not being vacc'd. Anyone know of a mountain with an adaptive program that is not following the jab narrative? I know others in this same position. I may need to work privately with folks. As I did in the summer with adaptive biking. Participants do not care, they know more about pharma corruption than any of us. They just want to DO. And need us to DO. Accepting Areas Anyone? Thank you.


----------



## Tellingtruths

New to the east, I know CO mtns best. Where is there a friendly to unvaxx mtn in NE? One that will Not segregate me for my hot chocolate need, for ex. I know Loveland in CO is cool. A-Basin is not and all the Vails are not. But which mtns from PA to Maine? Thx.


----------



## Tjf1967

Saddleback up in Maine


----------



## Tellingtruths

Sweet. I'd love to ski Maine. Thank you.


----------



## Harvey

Pretty cool to be able to go where ever to work.

Based on your post in the other thread, you want to work at a ski mountain. Probably going to take a phone call to figure it out.

I was surprised to see how many adaptive programs there are in NY. I'd heard of a few of these, but not nearly all:






Adaptive Ski Programs | SANY - SKI AREAS OF NEW YORK, INC


Bristol Mountain - Their program is coordinated through the Outdoor Adventures for Sacrifice in Service (OASIS Group) and is for military veterans only. Catamount Ski Area - Works with an adaptive sports program called STRIDE.




www.iskiny.com





I checked out Saddleback, but didn't see anything about rules for employees:









COVID Policy







www.saddlebackmaine.com





May ultimately add this to the other thread, will leave it for now. See what other input you can get.


----------



## tirolski

SkiCNY has an ARISE&Ski program.
Their new bar-restaurant is named after an instructor who taught there. 
Heuga’s Alpine.
Unsure of what’s deemed necessary for employment.








ARISE and Ski - ARISE







www.ariseinc.org












SkiCNY | Skiing in Central New York


Full Labrador Report Full Song Report…




www.skicny.com


----------



## jimmypete

Don't really understand any vaccine hesitancy, Right off the bat they said that the vaccines were going to be somewhere between 85-90% effective. Simple math would tell you that for every ten thousand people vaccinated at least a 1000 won't be as immunized as the other 9000, BUT all the stats show that vaccinated people don't get as sick and if they do rarely die. I know people who had infections were given an anti-biotic and it didn't cure the infection but does that mean if you get an infection you will say hey it doesn't work. Also yes vaccinated people can carry the virus in their nostrils BUT once again because they usually don't get sick the shedding period is much much shorter, I have an idea if you get sick you go to your doctor, why not ask your doctor, the guy you go to should you get vaccinated, you would trust him/her for any other treatment, if you don't like the answer get a second opinion.


----------



## Tellingtruths

None of the vacc supporters I've read here know more than what the mainstream media is telling them. I get it, and understand. People like me we've studied and dug and have learned, and keep up. We've got treatments ready, or are doing preventive measures. We do not care if you wear a helmet, or your seatbelt, or flip flops when you hike a 14er. We live life as usual, mind our own business. I'm just looking for those mtns that are letting us live, and not pushing the fear. Post mtn names if you know of any. Thanks.


----------



## Tellingtruths

Harvey said:


> Pretty cool to be able to go where ever to work.
> 
> Based on your post in the other thread, you want to work at a ski mountain. Probably going to take a phone call to figure it out.
> 
> I was surprised to see how many adaptive programs there are in NY. I'd heard of a few of these, but not nearly all:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adaptive Ski Programs | SANY - SKI AREAS OF NEW YORK, INC
> 
> 
> Bristol Mountain - Their program is coordinated through the Outdoor Adventures for Sacrifice in Service (OASIS Group) and is for military veterans only. Catamount Ski Area - Works with an adaptive sports program called STRIDE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iskiny.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked out Saddleback, but didn't see anything about rules for employees:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID Policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saddlebackmaine.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May ultimately add this to the other thread, will leave it for now. See what other input you can get.


Actually calling doesn't work in these circumstances. Ya don't find out till you are at the point of orientation almost. This is why I'm asking here, for a hint, a feel. I just don't know the east mountains, who owns them, if they are conservative, or liberal. Privately owned tend to be more conservative, and push back on group think. Still hoping for folks to give me a few more hints. Thanks for the info. Sweet of you. Can't wait to ski this year. I'm used to early snow, having lived in CO last 14 yrs. I'm used to the Sept Oct gear checks, the Nov Dec training, the early turns snow chatter. Missing CO but it's turned crazy lib. Sad. Please people hold on to choice and freedom. We just want to make turns and push our bodies to the limit.


----------



## sig

Tellingtruths said:


> Can't wait to ski this year. I'm used to early snow, having lived in CO last 14 yrs. I'm used to the Sept Oct gear checks, the Nov Dec training, the early turns snow chatter.


Ha ha, welcome to the northeast. i am used to Christmas thaw/rain events. always hope for a good year. enjoy


----------



## Ripitz

Hope you didn’t move here to get away from the liberals. Good luck with your search.


----------



## snoloco

If I'm reading this correctly, you joined just 2 days ago, and all your posts so far are politically charged anti-vax nonsense. That sounds like a troll to me.


----------



## Ripitz

You should definitely wear a seatbelt.


----------



## Low Angle Life




----------



## ScottySkis

Tellingtruths said:


> Actually calling doesn't work in these circumstances. Ya don't find out till you are at the point of orientation almost. This is why I'm asking here, for a hint, a feel. I just don't know the east mountains, who owns them, if they are conservative, or liberal. Privately owned tend to be more conservative, and push back on group think. Still hoping for folks to give me a few more hints. Thanks for the info. Sweet of you. Can't wait to ski this year. I'm used to early snow, having lived in CO last 14 yrs. I'm used to the Sept Oct gear checks, the Nov Dec training, the early turns snow chatter. Missing CO but it's turned crazy lib. Sad. Please people hold on to choice and freedom. We just want to make turns and push our bodies to the limit.


Platty in my Catskills NY answer s all that in my opinion


----------



## x10003q

Tellingtruths said:


> None of the vacc supporters I've read here know more than what the mainstream media is telling them. I get it, and understand. People like me we've studied and dug and have learned, and keep up. We've got treatments ready, or are doing preventive measures. We do not care if you wear a helmet, or your seatbelt, or flip flops when you hike a 14er. We live life as usual, mind our own business. I'm just looking for those mtns that are letting us live, and not pushing the fear. Post mtn names if you know of any. Thanks.


Good info - which treatments and preventative measures can you share with us?


----------



## Tellingtruths

x10003q said:


> Good info - which treatments and preventative measures can you share with us?


Well, I've asked the Admin to remove my acct, after someone called me a troller. But looks like I'm still on, so I'll quickly put you on to learn from the FLCCC Alliance as a go to for treatment, prevention too. How to get what you need. Many other docs you can learn about via their many update videos on Odysee. They do one every week so you can stay current. Early treatment is key, travel with what you need and enjoy life. It's actually very simply done.


----------



## Tellingtruths

ScottySkis said:


> Platty in my Catskills NY answer s all that in my opinion


Thank you. New one to me.


----------



## Tjf1967

Ripitz said:


> You should definitely wear a seatbelt.


Lol


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> You should definitely wear a seatbelt.


Lmao


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> Good info - which treatments and preventative measures can you share with us?


Just as I thought.....zippo


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tellingtruths said:


> Well, I've asked the Admin to remove my acct, after someone called me a troller. But looks like I'm still on, so I'll quickly put you on to learn from the FLCCC Alliance as a go to for treatment, prevention too. How to get what you need. Many other docs you can learn about via their many update videos on Odysee. They do one every week so you can stay current. Early treatment is key, travel with what you need and enjoy life. It's actually very simply done.


You funny 
I'm vaxed and enjoy life very much, thanks. 
I don't care that you aren't, I used to but not anymore. Don't whine about not being able to get a job as employers looking for vaxed employees only makes sense.
Good luck to you.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Check out Mountain Creek....it's rad


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I was surprised to see how many adaptive programs there are in NY. I'd heard of a few of these, but not nearly all:


Greek's had one for many years. They do an excellent job.


----------



## jasonwx

Looking for a job teaching adaptive skiing?
A lot of these people have medical issues catching Covid would ruin their day
Seems selfish but you do you.


----------



## Sbob

My Business partner hates flip flops . He worked construction in Key West , employees would show up for work with them . He literally hates the sound of them LOL . He's not keen on pony tails either


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tellingtruths said:


> None of the vacc supporters I've read here know more than what the mainstream media is telling them.


Right. That's why I listened to my personal Doc, she's wicked smart.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Tellingtruths said:


> People like me we've studied and dug and have learned, and keep up.


Are you implying you're wicked smart?


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> I was surprised to see how many adaptive programs there are in NY. I'd heard of a few of these, but not nearly all:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adaptive Ski Programs | SANY - SKI AREAS OF NEW YORK, INC
> 
> 
> Bristol Mountain - Their program is coordinated through the Outdoor Adventures for Sacrifice in Service (OASIS Group) and is for military veterans only. Catamount Ski Area - Works with an adaptive sports program called STRIDE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iskiny.com


They need to cross the Tog link off their list and add the Song/Lab, just sayin.


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Are you implying you're wicked smart?


I’m makin popcorn if that helps.


----------



## Brownski

Campgottagopee said:


> Check out Mountain Creek....it's rad


And they’re hiring


----------



## ScottySkis

Tellingtruths said:


> Thank you. New one to me.











Plattekill Mountain


Plattekill Mountain， 罗克斯伯里. 12,332 次赞 · 50 人在谈论 · 16,445 人来过. Skiing, boarding and snowtubing in the Catskills of NY, Plattekill is fiercely independent and famous for huge natural snowfall,...




www.facebook.com




Platty Facebook website in West Catskills they get most snow of 4 hills open for riding in Catskills very awesome owener s they not liberal from Facebook post in my opinion I think u be thrilled their fyi open fir to sun
Holiday weeks
And powered days when it dihnaclty snow of 10 or more fall yheu put on Facebook if possible snow coming during week twalk about possible open ing??????????


----------



## Ripitz

ScottySkis said:


> Platty in my Catskills NY answer s all that in my opinion





Tellingtruths said:


> Thank you. New one to me.


Oh wow, definitely new here or definitely a troll. That’s our church! You are invited to this year’s first service. Introduce yourself to Pastor Harvey.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> Oh wow, definitely new here or definitely a troll.


But he's tellingthetruth


----------



## Ripitz

Campgottagopee said:


> But he's tellingthetruth


Dude looks like a lady


----------



## Andy_ROC

My error. I thought going to Med school and working for 10+ years was how you became a medical export... aka Doctor. But apparently there's a new way... dig and study a ton of internet content and you can shortcut that entire process.


----------



## jamesdeluxe

Ripitz said:


> definitely a troll.


Gladerunner


----------



## tirolski

A golfin friend of mine did his Master’s thesis titled, “The Design of a Ski Device for Paraplegia”.
He gave me a bound copy this summer.
I’ve read it and need to get it back to him.
He performed the study while at Columbia University and published it in 1978.
I’ve yet to ski with him but will this winter.
He’s a good golfer, nice person and another tirolean.
We’ll have some fun skiing too.


----------



## tirolski

jamesdeluxe said:


> Gladerunner


Don’t a lot of you like runnin down the glades in the winter.
Lot’s of glade runners on this site.


----------



## Campgottagopee

jamesdeluxe said:


> Gladerunner


FTW


----------



## Campgottagopee

Andy_ROC said:


> dig and study a ton of internet content and you can shortcut that entire process.


Think of all the money you'd save


----------



## Tjf1967

Andy_ROC said:


> My error. I thought going to Med school and working for 10+ years was how you became a medical export... aka Doctor. But apparently there's a new way... dig and study a ton of internet content and you can shortcut that entire process.


Just stay at a holiday inn. Jeezum


----------



## Harvey

Ripitz said:


> Oh wow, definitely new here or definitely a troll.


She was not a troll. While I disagree with her approach, I do believe she was sincerely looking for a place to teach adaptive without getting a vaccine. I have no idea if such a place exists in the east. It's interesting to me that she thought she could find that here more easily than out west. I'd be curious to know the outcome, but I don't think we will ever know.


----------



## tirolski

jamesdeluxe said:


> Gladerunner


It’s a thing at Bogus in Idaho.
Ya’d have more fun and could go faster skiing.
If ya could take a beer with ya it might be worth a try after skiing though.


----------



## Ripitz

Harvey said:


> She was not a troll. While I disagree with her approach, I do believe she was sincerely looking for a place to teach adaptive without getting a vaccine. I have no idea if such a place exists in the east. It's interesting to me that she thought she could find that here more easily than out west. I'd be curious to know the outcome, but I don't think we will ever know.


Some of my work involves working with people with disabilities. We have to be vaccinated and wear a mask. I don’t think twice about it because to me their safety is paramount.

We have excluded ourselves from a certain ski place that we love because of vaccine mandates. While my wife and I are vaccinated the Peanut is not because she’s under the age of 5. No biggy, need to respect people’s stance, their desire to stay safe and healthy and move on.


----------



## Low Angle Life

Andy_ROC said:


> My error. I thought going to Med school and working for 10+ years was how you became a medical export... aka Doctor. But apparently there's a new way... dig and study a ton of internet content and you can shortcut that entire process.


Lotta people getting into research these days, its getting really easy too with this thing called the internet, the research tells you everything you want to hear!


----------



## Campgottagopee

Low Angle Life said:


> Lotta people getting into research these days, its getting really easy too with this thing called the internet, the research tells you everything you want to hear!


I remember when Lowes first came to town
All of a sudden every dude with a truck was a contractor


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I got most of my pandemic information from the weekly briefings my partner got from actual infectious deisease experts. Now that she's back in the office I only get the highlights. @MarzNC seems to know stuff and have the actual skills to interpret complex data. This place is actually a pretty good source of information. 
I gotta sign out now. I've been looking into the JFK assassination and it's taking up all my time now that I'm getting close to cracking the case.

mm


----------



## Andy_ROC

Harvey said:


> She was not a troll. While I disagree with her approach, I do believe she was sincerely looking for a place to teach adaptive without getting a vaccine. I have no idea if such a place exists in the east. It's interesting to me that she thought she could find that here more easily than out west. I'd be curious to know the outcome, but I don't think we will ever know.


I agree in part. But getting into her views about the vax, her claiming most pro-vax people get their info from the media (No... we actually get it from our doctors and/or family and friends that are also doctors not some talk show host), and her going on about divisive politics was irrelevant to the info she was seeking. Yes she was seeking info on a good cause but combined it with gross generalizations that are inflammatory... that's how a good troll works.


----------



## raisingarizona

Low Angle Life said:


> Lotta people getting into research these days, its getting really easy too with this thing called the internet, the research tells you everything you want to hear!


My algorithm confirms how smart and right I always am!


----------



## Harvey

Harvey said:


> I disagree with her approach,


Hence.

Telling half the forum they were idiot liberals isn't the path to getting cooperation.

It's like my teenager telling me I'm a loser for listening to XYZ music and in the next breath asking me for a ride to the mall. 

I've thought (not seriously) that it would be a chuckle to display each members "primary news source" underneath their join date!


----------



## Ripitz

Musta been the shortest lived member ever. That’s too bad. You need a thick skin to hang out here sometimes, especially if you don’t follow the rules. I blame Sno, he’s the one who started the troll speak.

I get all of my news from NYSB.


----------



## Harvey

Ripitz said:


> Musta been the shortest lived member ever.


I don't think so. Many members with no posts at all.

Blaming Sno is a time-honored tradition around here!


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> Hence.
> 
> Telling half the forum they were idiot liberals isn't the path to getting cooperation.
> 
> It's like my teenager telling me I'm a loser for listening to XYZ music and in the next breath asking me for a ride to the mall.
> 
> I've thought (not seriously) that it would be a chuckle to display each members "primary news source" underneath their join date!


I see we are having similar experiences as fathers right now.


----------



## tirolski

Ripitz said:


> Musta been the shortest lived member ever. That’s too bad. You need a thick skin to hang out here sometimes, especially if you don’t follow the rules. I blame Sno, he’s the one who started the troll speak.
> 
> I get all of my news from NYSB.


If she put a ki on the end of her name she might’ve lasted longer as in tellintruthski.

My primary news source is the dog.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> I get all of my news from NYSB.


You beat me to it!


----------



## G.ski

Gotta tell you all the truth...

Covid threads suck.


----------



## Endoftheline

Andy_ROC said:


> My error. I thought going to Med school and working for 10+ years was how you became a medical export... aka Doctor. But apparently there's a new way... dig and study a ton of internet content and you can shortcut that entire process.


Didn't you know? Anyone can get their PHD in Immunology from Facebook University!


----------



## Campgottagopee

G.ski said:


> Gotta tell you all the truth...
> 
> Covid threads suck.


Reality


----------



## Harvey

You can ignore individuals but not threads or forums on XF. It's an often requested feature, but really, just look away.

On a different, but maybe related topic, the ignore list has dwindled to almost nothing.


----------



## G.ski

Harvey said:


> You can ignore individuals but not threads or forums on XF. It's an often requested feature, but really, just look away.
> 
> On a different, but maybe related topic, the ignore list has dwindled to almost nothing.


Not complaining, just my opinion.

Plenty of those flying around I'd say.


----------



## Johnny V.

The things you miss when you don't check in for a day or so............


----------



## raisingarizona

So telling the truth is already gone? 

I’m happy about that. She/he/whatever came in WAY too hot with offensive opinions. That crap ain’t for here.


----------



## Harvey

I get where Gski is coming from. 

As a mod it's a balance. If you stay away from anything that could turn into left vs right, it eliminates a lot. Pure politics of course, but also coronavirus and masks, Vail and their business practices, the future of energy, land use, and on and on. The only reason any of that middle ground stuff works is because you guys/gals are on the whole, reasonable.

I merged TT's thread into this main thread. Probably where it should have been in the first place. We don't need a bunch of covid threads. If there is only one thread it's easier to avoid, if you want to avoid the topic.

I'm sure there's a fascinating story that led TT east. We'll likely never know.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Harvey said:


> I'm sure there's a fascinating story that led TT east. We'll likely never know.



If it's even true


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> So telling the truth is already gone?


Forget it Raize. It’s da internet.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> If it's even true


Yup. I wasn’t buying it but who knows.

Politics without the emotional party loyalism is fine imo. Extreme identity politics? Not so much. That just brings the stoopid out in people.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

I'm sure TT has an interesting story, but anyone who who shows up and immediately characterizes himself, both by his content and even his user name, as the only truth teller should be instantly dismissed. I put him on my ignore list and I suggest others do the same.

mm


----------



## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> I'm sure TT has an interesting story, but anyone who who shows up and immediately characterizes himself, both by his content and even his user name, as the only truth teller should be instantly dismissed. I put him on my ignore list and I suggest others do the same.
> 
> mm


mm, it’s a her, she went bye, alleged-lies.


----------



## Andy_ROC

A simple google search "Adaptive Ski Program___________" insert state name will return a plethora of information for each state and mountain offering such. Would have been a nice topic to discuss but she opted to fill her inquiry with divisive rhetoric.


----------



## Ripitz

I’m sad to see Truth’s thread go bye-bye. We could have used it as a greatest bullshit story or drifting thread.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Ripitz said:


> I’m sad to see Truth’s thread go bye-bye. We could have used it as a greatest bullshit story or drifting thread.


lol


----------



## Milo Maltbie

tirolski said:


> mm, it’s a her, she went bye...


I apologize for enabling the patriarchy by using non-inclusive grammatical gender conventions. In my defense, I'm old.

mm


----------



## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> I apologize for enabling the patriarchy by using non-inclusive grammatical gender conventions. In my defense, I'm old.
> 
> mm


Attaboy ?


----------



## raisingarizona

Milo Maltbie said:


> I apologize for enabling the patriarchy by using non-inclusive grammatical gender conventions. In my defense, I'm old.
> 
> mm


Fkn racist!


----------



## MarzNC

raisingarizona said:


> Fkn racist!  Age-ist


Fixed it.


----------



## raisingarizona

MarzNC said:


> Fixed it.


Haha!

It’s kind of a joke between myself and some coworkers over the extreme woke young folks in the organization. If you disagree with Em, you're a racist!


----------



## G.ski

Harvey said:


> I get where Gski is coming from.
> 
> As a mod it's a balance. If you stay away from anything that could turn into left vs right, it eliminates a lot. Pure politics of course, but also coronavirus and masks, Vail and their business practices, the future of energy, land use, and on and on. The only reason any of that middle ground stuff works is because you guys/gals are on the whole, reasonable.
> 
> I merged TT's thread into this main thread. Probably where it should have been in the first place. We don't need a bunch of covid threads. If there is only one thread it's easier to avoid, if you want to avoid the topic.
> 
> I'm sure there's a fascinating story that led TT east. We'll likely never know.


You do get it as I suspected. 

Threads that promote discord are just too common today. Not a fan.

I'm a lover, not a fighter.


----------



## raisingarizona

G.ski said:


> You do get it as I suspected.
> 
> Threads that promote discord are just too common today. Not a fan.
> 
> I'm a lover, not a fighter.


I was in line at the post office yesterday when things got hot between the non mask wearing and the masked. I ignored it but this one older man wouldn’t stop his very loud “conversation” with his buddy that was obviously aimed at provoking the ladies in masks, one of which said her son was receiving chemotherapy treatments. He just wouldn’t stop and it eventually broke me down to tell him to shut up. It became extremely offensive to others with the whole “if they don’t protect themselves I don’t care if they die” bs.


----------



## MC2

Johnny V. said:


> The things you miss when you don't check in for a day or so............


What happened? I feel like I missed something too (but I’m too lazy to take the time to dig through)


----------



## tirolski

MC2 said:


> What happened? I feel like I missed something too (but I’m too lazy to take the time to dig through)


We’re all just waiting for the trails to get snow on em so we can go skiing again, if that helps. Mud season again.


----------



## Andy_ROC

tirolski said:


> We’re all just waiting for the trails to get snow on em so we can go skiing again, if that helps. Mud season again.


Buying a mountain bike was one of the best purchases I've ever made. Makes mud season so much more enjoyable. Going out night trail riding now


----------



## jasonwx

Andy_ROC said:


> Buying a mountain bike was one of the best purchases I've ever made. Makes mud season so much more enjoyable. Going out night trail riding now


Best 4500 I ever spent


----------



## gorgonzola

jasonwx said:


> Best 4500 I ever spent


looking for a new ride but don't want to spend that much


----------



## jasonwx

gorgonzola said:


> looking for a new ride but don't want to spend that much


Lot of good bikes that much cheaper
I’m just mentally ill


----------



## Andy_ROC

jasonwx said:


> Lot of good bikes that much cheaper
> I’m just mentally ill


I bought mine new at a local shop over the summer (got lucky to find one)--- specialized stumpjumper alloy $2,500 and it's awesome. I didn't go with a Carbon frame which would have added $$$'s--- and for me personally I could stand to lose >7lbs around the middle which is way cheaper than buying a lighter carbon framed bike  

I know guys that buy used bikes on Pinkbike.com and you can save pretty good. Also Craigslist. I'm a relative newb but have found mountain bike trail riding to be healthy, endurance building and making my legs much stronger for skiing and is something I enjoy almost as much as skiing.


----------



## raisingarizona

gorgonzola said:


> looking for a new ride but don't want to spend that much


Giant has decent bikes that are more affordable. 4-5k though is kind of standard now for good mountain bikes unfortunately.

Some people probably spend that kind of cash on home entertainment centers. Think of it as an investment for your physical and mental health.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> Think of it as an investment for your physical and mental health.


Yup. That’s why I go golfing and always walk when chasing the ball around.
Might try speed golfing next season.


----------



## gorgonzola

Andy_ROC said:


> I bought mine new at a local shop over the summer (got lucky to find one)--- specialized stumpjumper alloy $2,500 and it's awesome. I didn't go with a Carbon frame which would have added $$$'s--- and for me personally I could stand to lose >7lbs around the middle which is way cheaper than buying a lighter carbon framed bike
> 
> I know guys that buy used bikes on Pinkbike.com and you can save pretty good. Also Craigslist. I'm a relative newb but have found mountain bike trail riding to be healthy, endurance building and making my legs much stronger for skiing and is something I enjoy almost as much as skiing.





raisingarizona said:


> Giant has decent bikes that are more affordable. 4-5k though is kind of standard now for good mountain bikes unfortunately.
> 
> Some people probably spend that kind of cash on home entertainment centers. Think of it as an investment for your physical and mental health.


oh I know, I'm riding a trance now that i got as a leftover model year (when there was such a thing). I have issue with that in the industry, soon to be another exclusive white privilege activity / sport but that's a rant for another day/thread...


----------



## raisingarizona

gorgonzola said:


> oh I know, I'm riding a trance now that i got as a leftover model year (when there was such a thing). I have issue with that in the industry, soon to be another exclusive white privilege activity / sport but that's a rant for another day/thread...


My derailuer hasn’t worked right since last January but getting a new one seems impossible right now. Im almost to the point where I need a new bike but I can’t afford one. Im going to keep this one running just for work purposes. Teenage daughters are expensive and I really need a new vehicle. Im probably going to have to temporarily eliminate an activity here this coming year.


----------



## jasonwx

gorgonzola said:


> oh I know, I'm riding a trance now that i got as a leftover model year (when there was such a thing). I have issue with that in the industry, soon to be another exclusive white privilege activity / sport but that's a rant for another day/thread...


Interesting you say that 
In nj I’m usually the minority,at mountain creek almost always. 
Spanish is the predominant language. There is also a very strong Filipino turn out
They are all on super bikes. Top of the line yeti and Santa Cruz.


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> If I'm reading this correctly, you joined just 2 days ago, and all your posts so far are politically charged anti-vax nonsense. That sounds like a troll to me.


Perhaps, but what’s the point in trolling here? I’ll take truths at his word.

Mow that I’m caught up, seems a moot point, so nvm!


----------



## JTG

Ripitz said:


> Dude looks like a lady


Doesn’t that belong in the music thread?


----------



## Harvey

I agree MTB has really changed my life where I'm not spending the summer wishing it was winter. My bike is a crappy ($1000? I forget) Giant, and I really like it. It's feels light and rigid to me. I'm sure if I "did my research" I could be convinced my bike sucks.



raisingarizona said:


> Teenage daughters are expensive



I feel your pain RA. When you come east I'm buying a round at Plattekill for all of us.


----------



## Andy_ROC

raisingarizona said:


> My derailuer hasn’t worked right since last January but getting a new one seems impossible right now. Im almost to the point where I need a new bike but I can’t afford one. Im going to keep this one running just for work purposes. Teenage daughters are expensive and I really need a new vehicle. Im probably going to have to temporarily eliminate an activity here this coming year.


As someone else once told me, you buy a bike for the frame, the rest of it can be upgraded... once you can find the parts 



Harvey said:


> I agree MTB has really changed my life where I'm not spending the summer wishing it was winter. My bike is a crappy ($1000? I forget) Giant, and I really like it. It's feels light and rigid to me. I'm sure if I "did my research" I could be convinced my bike sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain RA. When you come east I'm buying a round at Plattekill for all of us.


One of the guys I ride with has the Specialized Rockhopper Expert hard tail, ~$1,000 and it's pretty nice, so I'm sure yours isn't a piece of junk either. 

I'd also agree MTB has changed my life. As a fortuitous lark, my wife and I bought MTB's at the end of 2019 without any research --- we just happened to walk by our local bike shop and decided to go in and look around. We test rode a couple bikes and bought an hour later. Neither of us had ridden in at least 10 years. Turned out we liked it a lot and it was a fantastic way to spend our summer 2020 when a lot was shut down and we didn't want to be crowded around other people. I'm already on my second bike 

Yes I'd say MTB leaves me with some of the same feeling I get skiing... outdoors, fresh air, physical activity, exploring nature and ending the day having a beer or two afterward with family or friends.... pretty much like a day skiing


----------



## gorgonzola

raisingarizona said:


> My derailuer hasn’t worked right since last January but getting a new one seems impossible right now. Im almost to the point where I need a new bike but I can’t afford one. Im going to keep this one running just for work purposes. Teenage daughters are expensive and I really need a new vehicle. Im probably going to have to temporarily eliminate an activity here this coming year.


I feel ya RA, I'm pretty much the last guy runnin' 2x, can't get a squeak out out of the rear brake and fork needs a re-build. I like the bike but on one hand I don't have the time to wrench like I used to and hate to keep dumping money and time into a 7 year old bike that's been ridden hard. On the other I don't feel like spending $3,500+ for essentially the same bike....


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> My derailuer hasn’t worked right since last January but getting a new one seems impossible right now. Im almost to the point where I need a new bike but I can’t afford one. Im going to keep this one running just for work purposes.


Went to the Ski Company today in the Cuse while runnin errands. Talked with Jimmy, a long time ski team coach for Colgate. He fixed my boots a couple years ago as I had wore too thick socks at times and screwed the liner a bit and he had fixed it with some super duct tape to allow me to get em on and off with correct socks without doing further damage. He said he hasn’t seen the supply chain inventory for ski goods this bad in his life. They appeared to have lots of skis and clothes though.
Thought about some new boots but the ones I have work great but the back of one liner is still a tad beat up. 
Decided to keep runnin ‘em till they shit the bed. 
Bought some new snow pants made in Germany and a pair of socks. Place was pretty busy for midday midweek. Let it snow.


----------



## raisingarizona

gorgonzola said:


> I feel ya RA, I'm pretty much the last guy runnin' 2x, can't get a squeak out out of the rear brake and fork needs a re-build. I like the bike but on one hand I don't have the time to wrench like I used to and hate to keep dumping money and time into a 7 year old bike that's been ridden hard. On the other I don't feel like spending $3,500+ for essentially the same bike....


The struggle is real!


----------



## Low Angle Life

jasonwx said:


> Interesting you say that
> In nj I’m usually the minority,at mountain creek almost always.
> Spanish is the predominant language. There is also a very strong Filipino turn out
> They are all on super bikes. Top of the line yeti and Santa Cruz.


My observation on the scene in NJ is a lot of older white guys 50+ crowd, some have gotten their kids into NICA and for those types its becoming a family thing. I've definitely seen the Filipino crews, yes they always ride in crews at least 10 deep, always 1 fat bike and can confirm that the rest are on Yeti's and SC spec'd out to the nines. I feel like all those dudes have to be single with decent pocket change, their Tacoma's and 4Runners are spec'd out "_overland_" rigs also done up to the nines. So from my perspective its less a white privilege thing and more of a hyper consumerist pissing contest between bros. I hate mountain bike "_culture" _ and where it's headed yet am fully entrenched.


----------



## Peter Minde

On mountain biking in NJ. I see people riding and speaking English, and riding and speaking Spanish. Running 20 years in 2 local parks, I see that where people went over obstacles and even built them, they now tend to go around them.


----------



## jasonwx

Low Angle Life said:


> My observation on the scene in NJ is a lot of older white guys 50+ crowd, some have gotten their kids into NICA and for those types its becoming a family thing. I've definitely seen the Filipino crews, yes they always ride in crews at least 10 deep, always 1 fat bike and can confirm that the rest are on Yeti's and SC spec'd out to the nines. I feel like all those dudes have to be single with decent pocket change, their Tacoma's and 4Runners are spec'd out "_overland_" rigs also done up to the nines. So from my perspective its less a white privilege thing and more of a hyper consumerist pissing contest between bros. I hate mountain bike "_culture" _ and where it's headed yet am fully entrenched.



well put
you are spot on!! I only have a pissing contest with myself, since i usually ride with solo. 
that said, hoping to ride the new trail at ring on Saturday..


----------



## raisingarizona

Not super white dudes. This is where I grew up riding. Back then we didn’t have trail heads or wood work, it was all jeep and quad trails. It’s great to see some progression since then as well as minorities enjoying trails.


----------



## MC2

raisingarizona said:


> . Teenage daughters are expensive .


uh oh.

Welp, at least I have a 13-year warning.


----------



## MarzNC

MC2 said:


> uh oh.
> 
> Welp, at least I have a 13-year warning.


There is a reason that the term "tween" has become part of a parent's vocabulary. Can start by age 7 although supposedly 8-12. Lucky for me I did some reading by the time my daughter was 6. 

When she was a tween, that's when skiing with mom was no longer so much fun for her. Had to find a ski buddy her age, although any other adult would do.


----------



## jasonwx

MC2 said:


> uh oh.
> 
> Welp, at least I have a 13-year warning.


They are expensive at 25 and 27 too?


----------



## Milo Maltbie

MC2 said:


> uh oh.
> 
> Welp, at least I have a 13-year warning.


Wait what?!? Does this mean you have a new daughter?

dm


----------



## gorgonzola

I remember having a conversation with my oldest daughter something like "I didn't like 14 year old girls when I was 14 and I sure as hell don't like 'em any better now" lol!

Congrats MC!


----------



## MC2

Milo Maltbie said:


> Wait what?!? Does this mean you have a new daughter?
> 
> dm


Yes it does. Born October 20th at 1:06 am… and since then, I have been seeing more 1:00 am through 5:00 am times on the clock than I’d seen since college.


----------



## SudsNBumps

When I coached softball I thought the 11-13year olds were the worst. Jason, my 27yr old moved out with her boyfriend(now fiance) and my wife told him...you can't give her back. My 26 year old lives with her boyfriend under our roof. We don't charge them but they make up for it. My girls are my best ski buds and have been all along. Congrats MC!


----------



## jasonwx

SudsNBumps said:


> When I coached softball I thought the 11-13year olds were the worst. Jason, my 27yr old moved out with her boyfriend(now fiance) and my wife told him...you can't give her back. My 26 year old lives with her boyfriend under our roof. We don't charge them but they make up for it. My girls are my best ski buds and have been all along. Congrats MC!


Very close with my girls too 
Both moved out and do well for themselves. We we still vacation as a family


----------



## Milo Maltbie

MC2 said:


> Yes it does. Born October 20th at 1:06 am… and since then, I have been seeing more 1:00 am through 5:00 am times on the clock than I’d seen since college.


Congrats. 
Pay attention. It's the most tedious thing that goes by in the blink of an eye.

mm


----------



## raisingarizona

MC2 said:


> uh oh.
> 
> Welp, at least I have a 13-year warning.


She was my best bud until about 8 months ago. The last 8 months…..rough.


----------



## JTG

From 13 until the time they go off to college we are generally some kind of embarrassment to our kids it’s seems…..but it gets better as they mature!


----------



## sig

raisingarizona said:


> She was my best bud until about 8 months ago. The last 8 months…..rough.


i believe it some sort of pay back for the shit we put our parents through. you have kids for life. issues and worrying never goes away.


----------



## Q*bert Jones IV

raisingarizona said:


> She was my best bud until about 8 months ago. The last 8 months…..rough.


She'll be back. It just takes a couple of years.


----------



## witch hobble

raisingarizona said:


> She was my best bud until about 8 months ago. The last 8 months…..rough.


It’s nature at work. Independence and autonomy don’t just happen with the flick of a switch. You want the kids to lay down a base layer of separation and a (to them) independent identity as teenagers so that you are more likely to fledge them when it’s time.


----------



## tirolski

Bigshots discuss the upcoming season.


----------



## Sbob

witch hobble said:


> It’s nature at work. Independence and autonomy don’t just happen with the flick of a switch. You want the kids to lay down a base layer of separation and a (to them) independent identity as teenagers so that you are more likely to fledge them when it’s time.


----------



## tirolski

tirolski said:


> I thought it was odd that according to Marz’s italics above ya could play hockey outdoors without a passport but ya couldn’t ride a chairlift, allegedly. Didn’t make sense to me.
> Here’s a non-clickbait from their local news.
> Folks are trying to find out what happened.
> www.thestar.com/local-newmarket/news/2021/11/01/is-indoor-hockey-safe-the-search-for-answers-in-mysterious-covid-19-outbreak.


Used to be ya just worried about fights and/or loosing teeth playin hockey.








						Hockey outbreak cases from other counties push total higher
					

The number of COVID-19 cases from an outbreak that started with adult and kids hockey games in Aspen two weekends ago rose by more than 50% on Thursday after new cases were reported from a total of six Colorado counties.




					www.aspentimes.com


----------



## snoloco

tirolski said:


> Used to be ya just worried about fights and/or loosing teeth playin hockey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hockey outbreak cases from other counties push total higher
> 
> 
> The number of COVID-19 cases from an outbreak that started with adult and kids hockey games in Aspen two weekends ago rose by more than 50% on Thursday after new cases were reported from a total of six Colorado counties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspentimes.com


Colorado is having a wave right now, so there are going to be a lot of cases everywhere. I bet a lot of these people already had covid before the hockey game. You're not going to be able to avoid exposure forever, so if you want to be safe, get the vaccine, and get the booster shot, which restores efficacy back to 90+% against symptomatic infection. That's what I did. I can't stand how experts are still declaring certain activities "unsafe". It's nearly 2 years in, and unreasonable to expect people to still put their lives on hold, when we have vaccines and treatments readily available.


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> Colorado is having a wave right now, so there are going to be a lot of cases everywhere. I bet a lot of these people already had covid before the hockey game. You're not going to be able to avoid exposure forever, so if you want to be safe, get the vaccine, and get the booster shot, which restores efficacy back to 90+% against symptomatic infection. That's what I did. I can't stand how experts are still declaring certain activities "unsafe". It's nearly 2 years in, and unreasonable to expect people to still put their lives on hold, when we have vaccines and treatments readily available.


It’s probably good information that’s not aimed at you or me but for people that are more vulnerable to getting the vid in a bad way.


----------



## MarzNC

snoloco said:


> I bet a lot of these people already had covid before the hockey game.


You do know that someone who actually had COVID-19 probably has enough natural immunity to avoid a bad re-infection, right?

The irony of the low vaccination rates in the south is that I won't be all that worried about skiing in NC, VA, or WV this winter. At Massanutten, most people will be vaccinated by the nature of the people who stay on resort. At the other ski areas, there will be a mix of vaccinated folks and people with natural immunity because they have had COVID-19 since April 2020. Note that some of the people who are unvaccinated and think they had COVID-19 didn't bother to get tested. So they are the ones at greatest risk.

My approach to staying safe this ski season isn't much different than last season. Distance from strangers and awareness of ventilation in indoor spaces is the key. That's true regardless of vaccination status.


----------



## snoloco

MarzNC said:


> You do know that someone who actually had COVID-19 probably has enough natural immunity to avoid a bad re-infection, right?


You're missing my point. What I meant was some who tested positive after the hockey game might've already been infected before the game, so they didn't actually catch it there and not all the cases are related. I'm not saying there were re-infections.


----------



## gorgonzola

Hockey locker rooms are like a giant petri dish, not surprised


----------



## Milo Maltbie

MarzNC said:


> The irony of the low vaccination rates in the south is that I won't be all that worried about skiing in NC, VA, or WV this winter.


I don't understand this statement. Can you explain?

mm


----------



## MarzNC

Milo Maltbie said:


> I don't understand this statement. Can you explain?
> 
> mm


The southeast had a wave of detected cases from July-Sept 2021, especially in counties with low vax rates. There were undoubtedly plenty of undetected cases as well. If you look at the sharp decrease hospitalizations in the last month or two in NC, TN, WV, it's pretty clear there are areas where "herd immunity" has been reached. Meaning the chance of exposure when out and about is much less than last winter.

The daytime highs don't get much below 30 in the southeast during ski season. That makes it much easier for people to not spend much time indoors for any length of time beyond what's necessary for a restroom.

I've watched the trends in the NC mountain counties pretty closely. Unlike VT and CO, the county level trends were heading down in the first half of Nov, not up. I've also been in and around Asheville in the last couple months. So I know how both tourists and locals are acting when it comes to masking and/or distancing indoors. Made for an interesting comparison to what I experienced in PA and central NY in October when I drove north for the Plattekill Work Day. Note that I mostly only go indoors in supermarkets or gas station shops. However, I also eat in relatively empty restaurants.

Does that help?


----------



## MarzNC

Doubt anyone here really cares, except perhaps @jamesdeluxe, but here's what's happening in France for skiing.

November 22, 2021








French Ski Areas Must Require Masks, No Vax Mandate (Yet)


SAM Magazine—Porte-de-Savoie, France, Nov. 22, 2021—The French government issued a new national protocol requiring masks in lifts lines and on chairlifts a




www.saminfo.com




_"
The French government issued a new national protocol requiring masks in lifts lines and on chairlifts at the country’s 250 ski areas this winter. The protocol does not require guests to provide immunization records for access, but the French Ski Areas Association (Domaines Skiables De France) has said that provision is subject to change if national infection rates climb.

It will be compulsory for guests ages 11 and up to wear a surgical mask or a category 1 fabric mask (AFNOR SPEC S76-001 certification) on chairs and in lift lines. Only neck gaiters that are filtering and certified will be allowed as an alternative to masks.

Masks are also recommended for children age 6-11. Guests loading surface lifts one at a time will be exempt from mandatory masking. Although physical distancing is required in all lift lines, and protective measures must be applied throughout the ski area.
. . ."_


----------



## Harvey

MarzNC said:


> Note that some of the people who are unvaccinated and think they had COVID-19 didn't bother to get tested.


I didn't get tested. When you are knocked out, in bed unable to move for 10 days with covid-like symptoms, right during the all time peak of cases, getting tested isn't on your list. I hadn't missed a day of work for sickness for decades before that. I'd be absolutely stunned if I didn't have it. To be fair my oxygen never dropped, so maybe I had something exactly like it, but not it.

I wouldn't say I didn't bother. I did what was best for me, and honestly how many would I have exposed if I went for a test? Someone would have to drive me, and admit me and test me.

I came back out of quarantine at the recommended time, and went skiing.


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> I didn't get tested. When you are knocked out, in bed unable to move for 10 days with covid like symptoms, right during the all time peak of cases, getting tested isn't on your list. I hadn't missed a day of work for sickness for decades before that. I'd be absolutely stunned if I didn't have it. To be fair my oxygen never dropped, so maybe I had something exactly like it, but not it.
> 
> I wouldn't say I didn't bother. I did what was best for me, and honestly how many would I have exposed if I went for a test? Someone would have to drive me, and admit me and test me.
> 
> I came back out of quarantine at the recommended time, and went skiing.


There was certainly little need for you to bother to get tested when you were sick. Access to testing in 2020 was messy for quite a while in most of the country.

The people I'm thinking about are those who were pretty sure they were exposed after Delta arrived in 2021 because they knew someone who tested positive or had serious symptoms, but they themselves didn't have symptoms or very minor symptoms. In some cases they may not even have noticed. Could also apply to children. Delta changed the situation for people who were vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

I've heard of situations of people who "think" they had COVID-19 before September 2021 and that's the reason they see no reason to get vaccinated. These days it's possible confirm by paying for a T-cell test but I don't expect many people who are unwilling to get vaccinated before the 2021-22 ski season.

Natural immunity is known to be effective to prevent someone from another COVID-19 infection. What's unknown is how long that will last and what protection someone who didn't notice symptoms will have in 2022. Note that it doesn't really matter which variant of COVID-19 someone had, especially if they had symptoms.


----------



## MarzNC

For what it's worth, when I go skiing in Taos in Feb I'll be part of a fairly big group. While most of the people on my list got vaccinated as soon as they were eligible, there are a couple people who will not be vaccinated. They are people I've done ski trips with before. I know them well enough to not consider them any more of a risk than the people I skied with last season when only my ski buddy who is a family physician was vaccinated before the end of the season.


----------



## snoloco

I had covid last April. It felt like a cold for the most part, but I got tested just to make sure. Then I found out one of my coworkers tested positive. The weird thing was we both got it literally days after our first vaccine doses, and though the initial symptoms were just side effects. I was only sick for a couple days. It's hard to describe the feeling of checking your test result and finding it was positive. It must be a similar feeling to being found guilty in a trial. Then you get a call from the county health department, and are ordered to serve a period of isolation of 10 days. That's a fancy euphemism for what it really is: imprisonment, wait no, it's worse than that, it's solitary confinement. That was way worse than actually getting sick. I don't think public health experts understand how much of a deterrent that is to getting tested in the first place if you only have mild symptoms.


----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> I had covid last April. It felt like a cold for the most part, but I got tested just to make sure. Then I found out one of my coworkers tested positive. The weird thing was we both got it literally days after our first vaccine doses, and though the initial symptoms were just side effects. I was only sick for a couple days. It's hard to describe the feeling of checking your test result and finding it was positive. It must be a similar feeling to being found guilty in a trial. Then you get a call from the county health department, and are ordered to serve a period of isolation of 10 days. That's a fancy euphemism for what it really is: imprisonment, wait no, it's worse than that, it's solitary confinement. That was way worse than actually getting sick. I don't think public health experts understand how much of a deterrent that is to getting tested in the first place if you only have mild symptoms.


I’m in “confinement” right now. It’s not so bad. There are much worse things in life to endure. If it keeps others safe I’m happy to do it.


----------



## Johnny V.

Andy_ROC said:


> Going out night trail riding now


I did that with a bunch of buddies for a few years. Haven't been in a while though.


----------



## Andy_ROC

Ripitz said:


> I’m in “confinement” right now. It’s not so bad. There are much worse things in life to endure. If it keeps others safe I’m happy to do it.


At least you get unlimited Netflix, YouTube etc and most importantly the banter on NY ski blog!


----------



## raisingarizona

A lot of young adults today could use a healthy dose of real life suffering.


----------



## gorgonzola

Johnny V. said:


> I did that with a bunch of buddies for a few years. Haven't been in a while though.


It's a lot of fun for a few weeks before it gets too cold. Like skiing or riding in the rain, it's one thing to start out then have it get cold and dark but I have a tough time getting motivated to start a ride after work these days. Light are so good and cheap these days...


----------



## MarzNC

Here's what Jiminy Peak has posted about the lodge for 2021-22. They plan to have shuttles running from the parking lots. Group lessons will be offered. Other than masking indoors, sounds pretty close to pre-pandemic normal. Staff will be masked regardless of vaccination status.

_"Our lodges will be open this winter. We ask that you limit your time in the lodge to approximately 40 minutes, during peak times, to allow as many guests as possible the chance to stop in, grab something to eat or drink and warm up. We have installed multiple HEPA filters in all indoor spaces in an effort to minimize air-borne particulate in these common areas. 

Personal belongings (shoes, bags, food, etc.) will not be permitted to be left in the eating areas of the lodges on weekends, holidays and during holiday periods. Paid lockers (utilizing electronic credit card payment) are available in the lower levels of JJ’s Lodge and Crane Lodge and are subject to availability. There are a limited number of unsecured storage cubicles in the lower level of Crane Lodge, and are subject to availability. Outdoor bag storage will be available free of charge, on weekends, holidays and during holiday periods, under the tent in between JJ's and Crane Lodges. "_


----------



## Brownski

yeah, Sno, I’ve never been to prison but I doubt that sitting in my bedroom alone for 10 days would be as bad as prison. Other than that I think Sno’s observations are spot on. 2 people getting Covid right after their first dose is concerning too. It’s anecdotal of course but still makes you wonder. Just be glad you didn’t get it as bad as Harv did I guess. Any lingering effects?


----------



## Harvey

Brownski said:


> Just be glad you didn’t get it as bad as Harv did I guess. Any lingering effects?


Hard to say exactly. I definitely had effects that lingered beyond the ten days of "sickness." Several months of having a hard time concentrating. That's gone now. I was also incredibly tired. I'd take one or two naps at day at work, just putting my head down on the desk, and sleep for 20 mins. My partner was very cool about it, and the employees were all working from home so they never knew.

Now I make it through the day, but take a nap right when I get home, if I don't have to drop off and pick up our daughter.

One thing, and I don't know if it is related to covid or not, I have headaches a lot. Some are just low level some are really bad. I never used to get headaches much and if I did, a glass or water, cup of coffee or a single aspirin would knock it out. This headache seems to be immune to any treatment.

Sometimes I wonder, maybe I have covid again? If you've been vaxxed and get a breakthrough, maybe this is what it is?


----------



## Brownski

Headaches can come from so many different things. Stress is probably #1


----------



## Harvey

True. Also I didn't have them right after covid, they have come on since about June (had covid in Jan). I never really had them before, and stress is certainly nothing new. I have no idea.

Winter is coming, I'm sure it will all fade into the back ground when we start ripping ny/vt pow.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

raisingarizona said:


> A lot of young adults today could use a healthy dose of real life suffering.


Wow! Someone who is grumpier than me. 

mm


----------



## MarzNC

Harvey said:


> Hard to say exactly. I definitely had effects that lingered beyond the ten days of "sickness." Several months of having a hard time concentrating. That's gone now. I was also incredibly tired. I'd take one or two naps at day at work, just putting my head down on the desk, and sleep for 20 mins. My partner was very cool about it, and the employees were all working from home so they never knew.
> 
> Now I make it through the day, but take a nap right when I get home, if I don't have to drop off and pick up our daughter.
> 
> One thing, and I don't know if it is related to covid or not, I have headaches a lot. Some are just low level some are really bad. I never used to get headaches much and if I did, a glass or water, cup of coffee or a single aspirin would knock it out. This headache seems to be immune to any treatment.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder, maybe I have covid again? If you've been vaxxed and get a breakthrough, maybe this is what it is?





> True. Also I didn't have them right after covid, they have come on since about June (had covid in Jan). I never really had them before, and stress is certainly nothing new. I have no idea.



Probably be good to track the headaches since you didn't have them before. Headaches are a common symptom of Long Covid.









Headaches and Long-Covid: What to Know


24/7 pain can last for weeks or even months




health.clevelandclinic.org





Being vaccinated was never expected to prevent people from getting infected. The goal was to prevent serious illness and death. Full vaccination with any vaccine does that very well for people without underlying medical issues who are under age 70 or so. It seems fairly clear that someone who is vaccinated and has COVID-19 is probably infectious for a shorter time, meaning a few days instead of 10-14 days. That's because antibodies kick in much sooner to slow down the replication of SARS-CoV-2. But precautions such as masking and distancing are still relevant indoors or when there are lots of people close together for more than 15 minutes.


----------



## sig

Brownski said:


> Headaches can come from so many different things. Stress is probably #1


is it a toomah


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> I definitely had effects that lingered beyond the ten days of "sickness." Several months of having a hard time concentrating. That's gone now. I was also incredibly tired. I'd take one or two naps at day at work, just putting my head down on the desk, and sleep for 20 mins. My partner was very cool about it, and the employees were all working from home so they never knew.
> 
> Now I make it through the day, but take a nap right when I get home, if I don't have to drop off and pick up our daughter.


Harv, I was joking about this, but you are overqualified.

From the Belle Conditions thread:


ScottySkis said:


> Belleayre is seeking a motivated, detail-oriented professional to join the team as an Information Technology Technician.


_I’d bet ole Harv could do that job part-time in his sleep nappin after skiing Plattekill._

A friend tested positive with symptoms a while ago, he was vaccinated and had headaches for a bit. Talked to him the other day and headaches finally went away. 

Keep getting better Harvey. Sleep is good for ya.


----------



## raisingarizona

Milo Maltbie said:


> Wow! Someone who is grumpier than me.
> 
> mm


Yeah, maybe. 

I sometimes work around some great kids in the youth program, a lot can be overly dramatic though and as someone that’s been through some heavy shit I have a hard time listening and dealing with the “drama”.


----------



## Harvey

MarzNC said:


> Headaches and Long-Covid: What to Know
> 
> 
> 24/7 pain can last for weeks or even months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> health.clevelandclinic.org


Thanks for this. No break-through info or solutions, but makes think:

• Covid as cause possible or likely
• It may go away too

Almost completely given up on drinking, headache comes on almost immediately. Will still drink beer at the bar after skiing at Plattekill, no matter the cost.

?


----------



## Harvey

tirolski said:


> Harv, I was joking about this, but you are overqualified.


This made me laugh. 

More seriously, if you really love to ski, working in the ski business is even more insane than it is for regular people.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> …if you really love to ski, working in the ski business is even more insane than it is for regular people.


QFT 

mm


----------



## Low Angle Life

Harvey said:


> Almost completely given up on drinking, headache comes on almost immediately. Will still drink beer at the bar after skiing at Plattekill, no matter the cost.


I've got similar issues but have also been a migraine suffer for the last 15 years or so. I chalk it up to a few concussions and a cracking my dome twice. One thing I've noticed since tracking my headaches and migraines more carefully is that extreme barometric pressure changes play a big role, when combined with other triggers like alcohol I can be out for 3/4's of a day hiding from light. CBD has offered me some relief I use an 1800mg cream that I apply directly to my temples forehead and back of neck. Headaches suck.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> This made me laugh.
> 
> More seriously, if you really love to ski, working in the ski business is even more insane than it is for regular people.


Might break retirement and sit in a shack up top. 
Hope I don’t get any insaner.


----------



## Harvey

I just can't imagine the frustration of loading chairs or post on social media while listening to hoots and hollers coming out of the trees.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> I just can't imagine the frustration of loading chairs or post on social media while listening to hoots and hollers coming out of the trees.


It’d be at the top. Quite aways from tree skiing.
Shoveling snow, taking care of off ramp & orange fence, helping folks when folks wipe out getting off, etc.
Haven’t committed to it yet.
Too much going on at that bottom for me to ever work that.

I don’t get bored easily. We’ll see what happens. Could be fun.
Ski Mountains need folks to work.


----------



## JTG

raisingarizona said:


> Yeah, maybe.
> 
> I sometimes work around some great kids in the youth program, a lot can be overly dramatic though and as someone that’s been through some heavy shit I have a hard time listening and dealing with the “drama”.


I hear ya RA, but what do yutes really know anyway, from most generations? We were all wet behind the ears once upon a time, no?

Take solace, that if raised right, those youth will hit their maturation process. I, too, used to be somewhat down on the “everybody gets a trophy” generation….my kids included at times. They haven’t had the same struggles we might have, be it growing up in poverty, working multiple jobs from a young age while still completing HS/college degrees (and beyond), growing up with abusive or alcoholic parents, even all of thee above. 

While it may seem like many kids have had charmed lives compared to ‘back in the day’….I’ve always viewed our job as parents to provide for our kids to have better than we did. Of course what they do with that is up to them, but grounded kids turn into solid young adults despite the current generation of young people enduring struggles the last few years we never had to deal with. 

Keep the faith!


----------



## Brownski

tirolski said:


> Might break retirement and sit in a shack up top.
> Hope I don’t get any insaner.


Top shack sucks. Bumpin chairs is where it’s at. Do it.


----------



## Brownski

Harvey said:


> More seriously, if you really love to ski, working in the ski business is even more insane than it is for regular people.


Wrong.


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> Top shack sucks. Bumpin chairs is where it’s at. Do it.


I like people but not being around lots of em.


----------



## JTG

Brownski said:


> Wrong.


I do think it’s a double edged sword, being passionate about something and working in that industry. When you really care you see a lot more of what is broken in the field than those who don’t really have a connection or give a whit.


----------



## Brownski

I understand the idea but hear me out. Working at a hill is awesome, especially on the operations side. It’s too bad it pays so poorly in most cases but being on the hill before and after operating hours is very cool. Missing first tracks on a powder day may suck but it’s a privileged objection. The average person doesn’t get to blow off work cause it snowed 100 miles away. At least a liftie will know a few likely stashes to hunt down on his lunch break while I’m trying to sell orange flavored Irish whiskey in Mount Vernon.


----------



## tirolski

Harvey said:


> This made me laugh.
> 
> More seriously, if you really love to ski, working in the ski business is even more insane than it is for regular people.


Do what ya love and you’ll never work a day in yer life, allegedly.


----------



## Brownski

Man, when is the next season coming?I just went back to season 1 and started watching again. I need more Letterkenny.


----------



## tirolski

Brownski said:


> I need more Letterkenny.


Yup. It ain’t far as the crow flies and is similar to parts of The Upstate.


----------



## Ripitz

A lot of people in the ski industry don’t ski. I was always amazed by that but they make the best workers. I missed a big opportunity for advancement once when a GM asked me why I was there and my reply was to ski. At least I was honest.


----------



## Ripitz

Actually my reply was, “I’m here to rip the mountain”. That probably didn’t help either.


----------



## tirolski

Ripitz said:


> A lot of people in the ski industry don’t ski. I was always amazed by that but they make the best workers. I missed a big opportunity for advancement once when a GM asked me why I was there and my reply was to ski.





Ripitz said:


> Actually my reply was, “I’m here to rip the mountain”.



What didn’t the GM understand Ripitz?
Seems understanable.


----------



## Ripitz

He wasn’t a skier himself, I think that was the misunderstanding. In high end hospitality it’s all about business. His position was that skiing would be a distraction. I always thought it gave more motivation for being there and staying. It also gives you insight to the guest’s experience so that you can better relate to them. Most people in higher management rarely get a chance to ski. He probably did me a favor. I went back to bartending at night and skiing everyday. He didn’t stay very long.


----------



## wonderpony

Meanwhile, on the coronavirus and skiing concept, my department chair wants to have an indoor celebration with food. I am ok with organizing it, but think I will skip the actual event. GP should be open and I don't want to miss skiing, just for a free lunch, in case I get exposed.


----------



## raisingarizona

There’s much better jobs then day work on the hill if you really want to ski. All of those crews generally have fun but they don’t ski much. It can also be hard to drive to the hill on your days off when you’ve already been there 4 or 5 days that week already.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> There’s much better jobs then day work on the hill if you really want to ski... It can also be hard to drive to the hill on your days off when you’ve already been there 4 or 5 days that week already.


When I ski locally it’s usually just for 4 hrs or so. Both places have night skiing too. 
Not gonna work at all if if I have to work a lot. 
Having to punch a clock would be the most challenging. 
Drive is similar to but much prettier than when I worked for real. ~30 min.


----------



## tirolski

South Tyrol is back skiing. 
First time since March 2020.








Fresh snow beckons Italian skiers returning after 20 months


To ensure the safety of skiers, the Dolomoti Superski network of 16 ski resorts, with nearly 750 miles of runs in the Trentino-Alto Adige and Veneto regions, including Plan de Corones, have launched a special ski pass. It is integrated with the nation's health pass.




www.stripes.com


----------



## Benny Profane

tirolski said:


> South Tyrol is back skiing.
> First time since March 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fresh snow beckons Italian skiers returning after 20 months
> 
> 
> To ensure the safety of skiers, the Dolomoti Superski network of 16 ski resorts, with nearly 750 miles of runs in the Trentino-Alto Adige and Veneto regions, including Plan de Corones, have launched a special ski pass. It is integrated with the nation's health pass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stripes.com


But, one must have a green pass QR code on one's phone that has to be uploaded every day to activate one's pass, and surgical quality masks must be worn on closed lifts and lodges. Our paper vax card will have to be shown at a ticket office every day to activate pass. 
Switzerland has effectively banned all Brits by requiring a ten day quarantine after entering, even if vaxxed. I think we're ok, but lord knows with this new South African variant just discovered and spreading.


----------



## raisingarizona

Benny Profane said:


> But, one must have a green pass QR code on one's phone that has to be uploaded every day to activate one's pass, and surgical quality masks must be worn on closed lifts and lodges. Our paper vax card will have to be shown at a ticket office every day to activate pass.
> Switzerland has effectively banned all Brits by requiring a ten day quarantine after entering, even if vaxxed. I think we're ok, but lord knows with this new South African variant just discovered and spreading.


Who the hell knows…..for sure but I don’t think we should jump to worst case scenarios until we get more details on this new variant. Our news media’s bread and butter is fear so of course they are going to try and scare the crap out of everyone. There have been reports that the symptoms of this new variant are very mild for the vaccinated.


----------



## raisingarizona




----------



## snoloco

raisingarizona said:


> Who the hell knows…..for sure but I don’t think we should jump to worst case scenarios until we get more details on this new variant. Our news media’s bread and butter is fear so of course they are going to try and scare the crap out of everyone. There have been reports that the symptoms of this new variant are very mild for the vaccinated.


For once, I agree with you. The problem is it's not just the media jumping to worst case scenarios. It's also public health experts, who have a heavy influence on elected officials if you live in a blue state/county/city/town. My concern is panicky politicians imposing new restrictions as a knee jerk reaction, only to later find out later that it wasn't necessary, but the collateral damage can't be undone.


----------



## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> Who the hell knows…..for sure but I don’t think we should jump to worst case scenarios until we get more details on this new variant. Our news media’s bread and butter is fear so of course they are going to try and scare the crap out of everyone. There have been reports that the symptoms of this new variant are very mild for the vaccinated.


NY governor declared a disaster emergency Friday the same day Gore & Whiteface opened, so there’s that.








No. 11: Declaring a Disaster Emergency in the State of New York


Declaring a Disaster Emergency in the State of New York




www.governor.ny.gov


----------



## snoloco

tirolski said:


> NY governor declared a disaster emergency Friday the same day Gore & Whiteface opened, so there’s that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. 11: Declaring a Disaster Emergency in the State of New York
> 
> 
> Declaring a Disaster Emergency in the State of New York
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.governor.ny.gov


There's blatant misinformation in there. Says that covid transmission is the highest since April 2020. So there wasn't a wave last winter that peaked much higher than we are now? Way to rewrite history.


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> There's blatant misinformation in there. Says that covid transmission is the highest since April 2020. So there wasn't a wave last winter that peaked much higher than we are now?


Don’t ask me, ask her.









New York Coronavirus Map and Case Count


See the latest charts and maps of coronavirus cases, deaths, hospitalizations and vaccinations in New York.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## snoloco

If there was a political forum, then I could go more into depth about possible motivations, but I think anyone can agree that intentionally putting misinformation in an executive order is bad.


----------



## Green light

Same shit.....different governor


----------



## Campgottagopee

Green light said:


> Same shit.....different governor


No doubt
Is she really wanted to help she would send in military doc's and nurses to take the pressure off. Health carre workers are still getting their asses handed to them. That's what we aren't hearing.


----------



## snoloco

I believe there is pressure on any elected official, or even on private businesses to look like they are "doing something". That's why you end up with dumb rules like mandatory masks while walking to your table in the restaurant. Most people know this is stupid and ineffective, but they are trying to appease a small but vocal minority. The problem is that for elected officials, performative measures like this seem to be distracting from things that could actually save lives.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> It's also public health experts, who have a heavy influence on elected officials if you live in a blue state/county/city/town.


When did science based public health policy become a political issue?


snoloco said:


> My concern is panicky politicians imposing new restrictions as a knee jerk reaction, only to later find out later that it wasn't necessary, but the collateral damage can't be undone.


It's an impossible situation for leaders. If the don't take steps to avoid disasters, they are blamed for inaction. If they take measures that successfully avoid the disaster, everyone believes that the hardships created as a consequence of the were unnecassary or even imposed in bad faith. Add to it that the authority to deal with public health is mostly in county health departments with ...um...variable leadership, it's will be a wonder if any governor survives a serious outbreak.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> There's blatant misinformation in there. Says that covid transmission is the highest since April 2020. So there wasn't a wave last winter that peaked much higher than we are now? Way to rewrite history.


I'm not sure that's right. There's a difference between "transmission" and "peak cases." Anecdotally, cases have increased rapidly around here recently, expecially in Warren, Essex and Washington counties. The time to intervene is when you expect exponential growth in cases. By the time you have the data to prove you have exponential growth, it's too late to do much about it.
We will be in full pandemic reaction mode until everyone accepts that random debilitating disease and horrible death are acceptable risks and the new normal. Some will accept that sooner than others.

mm


----------



## Andy_ROC

Campgottagopee said:


> No doubt
> Is she really wanted to help she would send in military doc's and nurses to take the pressure off. Health carre workers are still getting their asses handed to them. That's what we aren't hearing.


Was talking to a relative at Thanksgiving who is an MD. He said hospital staff is beyond burned out.


----------



## raisingarizona

Andy_ROC said:


> Was talking to a relative at Thanksgiving who is an MD. He said hospital staff is beyond burned out.


I know a lot of nurses that are changing employers or taking long breaks from working to try and reset.


----------



## gorgonzola

The whole world seems pretty burned out at this point, more so in healthcare...


----------



## snoloco

Milo Maltbie said:


> it will be a wonder if any governor survives a serious outbreak.


I believe the ones who didn't even try will be politically unscathed, once it's realized that the areas with severe restrictions did not have better outcomes.


----------



## MarzNC

Back to skiing and any impacts due to COVID-19 restrictions at ski areas?

From what I could tell from the webcams the people who were skiing in NC last weekend were having a very good time. Looking at the websites for a couple of the ski areas that are already open, there is no indication that COVID-19 exists. Ski school for kids is back. Major events are back. One ski area has COVID-19 info that is the Ski Well Be Well info from 2020-21.


----------



## MarzNC

Anyone hear how requiring vaccination at the Epic locations for cafeteria-style dining went last weekend?


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> I believe the ones who didn't even try will be politically unscathed, once it's realized that the areas with severe restrictions did not have better outcomes.


What is considered better outcome?


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> I believe the ones who didn't even try will be politically unscathed, once it's realized that the areas with severe restrictions did not have better outcomes.


I think that's probably true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that restrictions and vaccine mandates aren't effective. It looks to me like the virus travels around the country like a wave between the south and the norteast and west. I also think that the only places where there is high compliance with restriction and high vaccination rates are the big cities, and they are doing better than you would expect given their high population density, but that's not apparent in State level data.

mm


----------



## MarzNC

Milo Maltbie said:


> I also think that the only places where there is high compliance with restriction and high vaccination rates are the big cities, and they are doing better than you would expect given their high population density, but that's not apparent in State level data.


Have to look at county level data to see any patterns that explain why a region or state has had surges, or not. I'm still doing that but not going to post my thoughts or links about the pandemic during ski season.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> ... not going to post my thoughts or links about the pandemic during ski season.


Quitter. ?


----------



## G.ski

snoloco said:


> My concern is panicky politicians imposing new restrictions as a knee jerk reaction, only to later find out later that it wasn't necessary, but the collateral damage can't be undone.


You mean like Hochul declaring a state of emergency in NY?


----------



## Andy_ROC

Milo Maltbie said:


> I think that's probably true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that restrictions and vaccine mandates aren't effective. It looks to me like the virus travels around the country like a wave between the south and the norteast and west. I also think that the only places where there is high compliance with restriction and high vaccination rates are the big cities, and they are doing better than you would expect given their high population density, but that's not apparent in State level data.
> 
> mm


If the metric is death count then certainly NY was a leader early on. But from June 2020 - Nov 2021 FL has recorded 56,000 deaths compared to NY of about 27K. Take NYC data out, the most densely populated city in the USA, and NY has fared way better than FL (I can't find the chart for that one but I've seen it in the past). Tx data looks similar to FL. In my county, Monroe NY, 80% in the hospital aren't vaccinated. It's fine if someone doesn't want the Vax but don't go bitching because they can't have the human decency to wear a mask in indoor public places.

I'm not political, I'm an engineer and only care about data and designing solutions. If we threw out all the politicians and replaced them with engineers, doctors and accountants we'd probably be better in almost every aspect of life.









United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer


United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




www.worldometers.info












COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov


----------



## Low Angle Life

Andy_ROC said:


> I'm not political, I'm an engineer and only care about data and designing solutions. If we threw out all the politicians and replaced them with engineers, doctors and accountants we'd probably be better in almost every aspect of life.


I take it you're an engineer?

Are you sure they wouldn't be too busy letting all their constituents know that they are engineers to do any actual governing?


----------



## Andy_ROC

Low Angle Life said:


> I take it you're an engineer?
> 
> Are you sure they wouldn't be too busy letting all their constituents know that they are engineers to do any actual governing?


Kind of like the joke about Ski Instructors


----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> I believe the ones who didn't even try will be politically unscathed, once it's realized that the areas with severe restrictions did not have better outcomes.


I’m not sure I understand. Are you advocating ‘let’s do nothing’? I’m interested in hearing what you think the best approach would be.


----------



## tirolski

Ripitz said:


> I’m not sure I understand. Are you advocating ‘let’s do nothing’? I’m interested in hearing what you think the best approach would be.


There’s always the Amish, allegedly.


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> There’s always the Amish


Biggest deer jacking community out there
Fuckers


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Biggest deer jacking community out there


Deer eat their crops.


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> Deer eat their crops.


Sure they do
Deer eat all farmers crops, and there are nuisance permits they can get to legally take and report these deer for proper deer management. These effers just take them whenever the hell they want.

I'll admit to having a burr under my saddle for this community. Not only because they take deer illegally, but I got into with one of them over not wearing a mask in out little local store. It doesn't bother any of them to put themselves before others.


----------



## x10003q

tirolski said:


> There’s always the Amish, allegedly.


Oh my, more BS from Sinclair Broadcast Group. Mr. Lapp has amazing powers to discern herd immunity without any testing.
1. Immunity to covid 19 is improved with the vaccine when you have had Covid 19.
2. Sharyl Attkinsen, following Sinclair company rules, allows this guy to blather on and does not question him.
3. It is great that the Amish hate the government that supports their right to live the way they live. I guess Lapp fails to understand the irony of his statement.
4. It seems they do take the polio vaccine.


----------



## snoloco

Ripitz said:


> I’m not sure I understand. Are you advocating ‘let’s do nothing’? I’m interested in hearing what you think the best approach would be.


I'm not advocating for "doing nothing". State and local governments should make it as easy as possible to get vaccinated/boosted, make treatments like monoclonal antibodies easily accessible for those who do get sick, and expand hospital capacity where needed. These are not restrictions, but they are actions that will save lives. This is largely what Colorado and Vermont have done to manage the current wave.


----------



## trackbiker

Andy_ROC said:


> I'm not political, I'm an engineer and only care about data and designing solutions. If we threw out all the politicians and replaced them with engineers, doctors and accountants we'd probably be better in almost every aspect of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
> 
> 
> United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldometers.info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID Data Tracker
> 
> 
> CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.
> 
> 
> 
> covid.cdc.gov


I'd agree with that statement if you left the bean counters out of it. Too many companies have been ruined by people who only care about the numbers and stock prices, and not the big picture. Like GE, Boeing, The Big Three......


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> I'm not advocating for "doing nothing". State and local governments should make it as easy as possible to get vaccinated/boosted, make treatments like monoclonal antibodies easily accessible for those who do get sick, and expand hospital capacity where needed. These are not restrictions, but they are actions that will save lives. This is largely what Colorado and Vermont have done to manage the current wave.


Don't forget that VT shut their state off. I believe we'd be much better off if all states did that as well as countries did as well. 
You can increase hospital capacity all you want. That won't do anyone any good until there's more workers to take care of the sick.


----------



## Warp daddy

Milo Maltbie said:


> I'm not sure that's right. There's a difference between "transmission" and "peak cases." Anecdotally, cases have increased rapidly around here recently, expecially in Warren, Essex and Washington counties. The time to intervene is when you expect exponential growth in cases. By the time you have the data to prove you have exponential growth, it's too late to do much about it. We will be in full pandemic reaction mode until everyone accepts that random debilitating disease and horrible death are acceptable risks and the new normal. Some will accept that sooner than others. mm


----------



## snoloco

I know what Vermont did last year. It was a zero covid strategy. It caused too much collateral damage, and only delayed the inevitable, which was a large spike that stressed hospitals. This has happened everywhere in the world that thought they controlled it at first. Even New Zealand and Australia realized their zero covid strategies didn't work and moved away from them.


----------



## Harvey

Holy crap people 4 pages. Do I need to read it all or are you all behaving?

Please don't make me! There is potential for snow!


----------



## Warp daddy

The crisis is burnout among most healthcare professionals nationwide AND the intellectually challenged Anti Vaxxers .

These two phenomenon when combined are the perfect storm when dealing with any potential EFFECTIVE containment of any emerging variants .

The fact remains There WILL be more given the fucking intragent Insipid Anti Vax crowd who think only of themselves.

Sorry I have Zero tolerance for this group now after almost a year .

I have some of these ignoramuses in my extended family so don't think my words are coddled in self aggrandizing egotism.

The only way these fools MAY comply is if they experience death of a loved one .

In the meantime Let them pay through the fucking nose for ANY hospital stay ,for ANY health insurance coverage.

Tough measures ?? Not Tough enough .Healthcare is in crisis because of these turds


----------



## Warp daddy

The crisis is burnout among most healthcare professional AND the intellectual challenged Anti Vaxxers . These two phenomenon are the perfect storm when dealing with the EFFECTIVE containment of any emerging variants and there WILL be more given the fucking intragent Insipid Anti Vax cretins .

Sorry I have Zero tolerance for this group now after almost a year .I have some of these ignoramuses in my extended family so don't think my words are coddled in self aggrandizing egotism

The only way these fools MAY comply is if they experience death of a loved one . Let these fools pay through the fucking nose for ANY hospital stay ,for ANY health insurance coverage.

Tough measures ?? Not Tough enough .Healthcare is in crisis because of these turds


----------



## Ripitz

Campgottagopee said:


> Don't forget that VT shut their state off. I believe we'd be much better off if all states did that as well as countries did as well.
> You can increase hospital capacity all you want. That won't do anyone any good until there's more workers to take care of the sick.


I was just about to post this^^
It’s not like you can add some beds and call it good. Especially in rural places.


snoloco said:


> I'm not advocating for "doing nothing". State and local governments should make it as easy as possible to get vaccinated/boosted, make treatments like monoclonal antibodies easily accessible for those who do get sick, and expand hospital capacity where needed. These are not restrictions, but they are actions that will save lives. This is largely what Colorado and Vermont have done to manage the current wave.


I thought it was easy to get the shot. It was when I got it. Not sure how they can make it easier. Am I missing something? Maybe something has changed? Do the restrictions you are referring to include wearing masks? My understanding is that they are very much necessary especially for the unvaccinated.

Since this is the ‘coronavirus and skiing’ thread I would like to point out that I had a great season last year despite ‘restrictions’. Yesterday when I went skiing I forgot all about the pandemic until I saw a couple people wearing masks while they were skiing. All in all life is good for what we are collectively going through. No complaints here. In fact, I would be down for a lockdown or more restrictions if it meant knocking this whole thing out. The problem I see is not the guidelines but people not following them.


----------



## Harvey

Ripitz said:


> Yesterday when I went skiing I forgot all about the pandemic


Me too! I had so much fun.


----------



## Harvey

Warp daddy said:


> intellectual challenged
> fucking intragent Insipid cretins
> ignoramuses
> fools fools turds


Dude I get that you are passionate on this topic. But this isn't helping.

Maybe it's not fair to single this out. This thread has 5 new pages, that I probably need to read, and didn't. Maybe there is other language in those pages that is similar to the above. I could read it all, post my own "thoughtful" input. Whatever this is my first free moment. The easiest thing for me would be to lock it.

LOOK, I also wish everyone would get vaccinated. I think life would be easier and cheaper for all. But every single person vaxed or not, is a human, with real reasons for making the choice to vax or not. Nobody is resisting to piss you off. They are doing it because they think it is the best thing for them.

Demeaning those people is not part of the solution. 

And if you're going to call out people's intelligence it's good idea to stick the landing on the punctuation and spelling.


----------



## wonderpony

Well, this just sucks. Cornell has had 906 cases in the past week, primarily undergrads.As far as I know, they are the only ones required to test. I have walked by grad student offices and seen them hanging out with no masks.

Cornell is seeing the OhMiGawd variant among its students. I guess we still have a way to go. The fact that "a very high percentage" are omicron is news to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/cornell-university-covid-cases/index.html


----------



## snoloco

If we're still locking down 100% vaccinated college campuses like prisons, one must take a step back and ask what are we trying to accomplish? I don't believe anyone in charge could give you a clear answer. That's the problem with this whole thing. My opinion is that nothing is going to stop cases, but hospitalizations and deaths can be greatly reduced through high vaccination rates. I know it's hard in certain political climates, but elected officials, college presidents, etc need to realize that trying to stop transmission is not practical or sustainable and move on. An example of doing this the right way is Vermont. While they're repeatedly smashing case records, their hospitalizations and deaths per 100k are significantly lower than most states, and the governor is resisting calls to declare a state of emergency and bring back restrictions like mask wearing and capacity limits, even though cases are higher than when those restrictions were in effect. The rationale is that anyone who wants to be vaccinated is already, and it's unfair to punish those who are to protect those who aren't.


----------



## raisingarizona

Topic people! 

Coronavirus, Amish people, all lifts by December, we are getting up to 28 inches here tonight up at Snowbowl, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.


----------



## snoloco

I don't think my post was off-topic.


----------



## Ripitz

Mine is. Stay safe WP!


----------



## raisingarizona

snoloco said:


> I don't think my post was off-topic.


I’m not very serious (unless I am) Sno, you should know this about me by now. 

22 to 28 inches! I’m getting stoked on skiing. Covid sucks.


----------



## MarzNC

At Wolf Creek, business is pretty similar to pre-pandemic. Except staffing issues mean that ski school has about 2/3 the number of instructors and Raven's Nest Lodge on the mountain is unlikely to open this season.

Masks are recommended indoors. There are a few people masking, but not many. The main cafeteria has serious plexiglass "walls" between the people in line and the employees. There is a microphone like you see for a drive-thru for ordering.

Apparently the prices for food is noticeably higher than pre-pandemic. Still pretty reasonable in comparison to a ski resort though. Food is quite good and lots of variety.

Fresh snow that started early this morning made for a very fun day. Especially after a few days exploring under blue skies so that we had a pretty good idea of where to go.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> Well, this just sucks. Cornell has had 906 cases in the past week, primarily undergrads.As far as I know, they are the only ones required to test. I have walked by grad student offices and seen them hanging out with no masks.
> 
> Cornell is seeing the OhMiGawd variant among its students. I guess we still have a way to go. The fact that "a very high percentage" are omicron is news to me.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/cornell-university-covid-cases/index.html


Saw this on the news. Stay safe WP.
We are back to mask's here in NY. I hate them but I'll wear one, again. It's frustrating at work. Some customers aren't wearing them which could lead to fines for the Boss. He pulled me aside to tell me not to say anything to them about it....lol


----------



## Warp daddy

Be well WP, stay safe 

Frankly that situation at CU is no surprise at all, Two weeks after returning from Thanksgiving break. Here in rural NNY cases are ramping up , hospitals are surging . With a vax rate of 56 per cent in our county it is no wonder the vast majority > 80 % taking bed space are vaccine hesitant . Staff is getting fried .


----------



## x10003q

I bet if there was an oral vaccine there would be more people vaccinated.


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> I bet if there was an oral vaccine there would be more people vaccinated.


I wonder about this as well. I agree with you, but there's still those that will refuse because they're being "told" to get vaxed. Current mandates aren't working, imo, I feel they have a reverse effect making those against it dig in deeper. The one mandate that would work, imo, is to have all hospitals put those who are vaxed in front of the line for care, and those who aren't in the back of the line. It's time to seriously take care of those who are willing to help themselves and those around them vs those who are being selfish.


----------



## snoloco

This map tracks which Vermont towns have enacted mask mandates. They must be voted on by the town select boards every 30 days to remain in effect. Additionally, all mandates must expire by April 30. The map also shows towns that voted on a mask mandate but didn't pass it, passed a partial mandate, or decided not to vote on it at all.


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> This map tracks which Vermont towns have enacted mask mandates. They must be voted on by the town select boards every 30 days to remain in effect. Additionally, all mandates must expire by April 30. The map also shows towns that voted on a mask mandate but didn't pass it, passed a partial mandate, or decided not to vote on it at all.


You keep going back to Vermont. They aren't a good example as they shut down. Masks are only a tool.


----------



## snoloco

It's relevant for anyone planning on skiing in Vermont, and shows that even in one of the most liberal states in the country, that is having their worst wave yet, and previously had severe restrictions, that mandates are not that popular at this point.


----------



## MarzNC

Are the ski resorts in the northeast sending out any emails that mention COVID-19? Or changing what's on their homepage to mention changes in operations?


----------



## MarzNC

snoloco said:


> It's relevant for anyone planning on skiing in Vermont, and shows that even in one of the most liberal states in the country, that is having their worst wave yet, and previously had severe restrictions, that mandates are not that popular at this point.


Vermont was unique in the approach to the pandemic in 2020, even for New England. I could talk about why surges are happening in different regions/states/counties based but I won't.

In any case, what's more useful for this thread are any changes in operations for a given ski area or ski resort. Doesn't matter whether it's based on changes by the local public health or government authority or a decision by the management of the ski resort.


----------



## Campgottagopee

MarzNC said:


> Are the ski resorts in the northeast sending out any emails that mention COVID-19? Or changing what's on their homepage to mention changes in operations?


Greek Peak has


----------



## MarzNC

Campgottagopee said:


> Greek Peak has


Interesting. Here's what pops up when going to the homepage on Dec. 15. The link goes to the very basic info from June 2021 on the Greek website.

Have there been many people masking indoors at Greek in early Dec?


----------



## Green light

Man, I didn’t miss this thread when it was locked.


----------



## Campgottagopee

MarzNC said:


> Interesting. Here's what pops up when going to the homepage on Dec. 15. The link goes to the very basic info from June 2021 on the Greek website.
> 
> Have there been many people masking indoors at Greek in early Dec?
> 
> View attachment 11307



On FB they have a link to this article and stating that all guests must wear a mask when inside. I haven't been over in quite some time so I don't know if people have been masking prior to the mandate.








New York imposes statewide mask mandate as Covid-19 surges


Mandate takes effect Monday




www.syracuse.com


----------



## MarzNC

Campgottagopee said:


> On FB they have a link to this article and stating that all guests must wear a mask when inside. I haven't been over in quite some time so I don't know if people have been masking prior to the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York imposes statewide mask mandate as Covid-19 surges
> 
> 
> Mandate takes effect Monday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.syracuse.com


In general, pretty clear that Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter are much more lately to have up-to-date info related to ski operations and the pandemic than webpages.

Masking indoors by everyone works to limit the chances of enough exposure for someone to get infected. With Omicron, it's pretty clear that there are far more breakthrough cases than with Delta. Most likely most Omicron breakthrough cases will be mild, even for people who have symptoms. However, there will be far more detected by testing and even more will go undetected. If people are sensible (hah!) then the ski season could be reasonably normal . . . assuming it starts snowing.


----------



## wonderpony

MarzNC said:


> In general, pretty clear that Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter are much more lately to have up-to-date info related to ski operations and the pandemic than webpages.
> 
> Masking indoors by everyone works to limit the chances of enough exposure for someone to get infected. With Omicron, it's pretty clear that there are far more breakthrough cases than with Delta. Most likely most Omicron breakthrough cases will be mild, even for people who have symptoms. However, there will be far more detected by testing and even more will go undetected. If people are sensible (hah!) then the ski season could be reasonably normal . . . assuming it starts snowing.


I kind of figure it will be like last season. For me, that means masking in the lift lines. I had been booting up in my car prior the pandemic, so that has never changed.


----------



## Andy_ROC

Campgottagopee said:


> I wonder about this as well. I agree with you, but there's still those that will refuse because they're being "told" to get vaxed. Current mandates aren't working, imo, I feel they have a reverse effect making those against it dig in deeper. *The one mandate that would work, imo, is to have all hospitals put those who are vaxed in front of the line for care, and those who aren't in the back of the line.* It's time to seriously take care of those who are willing to help themselves and those around them vs those who are being selfish.


----------



## MarzNC

Skiing last Saturday at Wolf Creek, I used the Serius facemask/gaiter that I used last season. By Sunday when there were far fewer people because the new snow was skied off, I went back to what I was doing pre-pandemic. No line for the fixed grip chairs. Maybe 2-3 parties in front of the line for the detachables. So never standing still in a lift line.

Restrooms are relatively empty since most people around are locals. I've got a cloth mask around my neck but don't always put it up.


----------



## Tjf1967

x10003q said:


> I bet if there was an oral vaccine there would be more people vaccinated.


DUH... who doesn't like oral


----------



## Ripitz

MarzNC said:


> I've got a cloth mask around my neck but don't always put it up.


Thankfully your not using those precious N-95s!


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> Have there been many people masking indoors at Greek in early Dec


Unfortunately, there hasn’t been many people skiing at Greek Peak in early December nor anywhere else locally.


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> Unfortunately, there hasn’t been many people skiing at Greek Peak in early December nor anywhere else locally.


Considering we have no snow I thought there has been quite a few cars in the parking lot. Hotel has been relatively busy as well.


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Considering we have no snow I thought there has been quite a few cars in the parking lot. Hotel has been relatively busy as well.


Virgil is a better place to be than a lot of places even if ya don’t ski.


----------



## JTG

Tjf1967 said:


> DUH... who doesn't like oral


That notwithstanding…..I doubt there are many who aren’t getting the vaccine because they don’t like shot, adults at least. IMHO the three prevalent reasons for those not getting vaccinated are 1) hesitancy based on the unknown potential future impacts of a “new” vaccine, 2) “Freedom”, nobody is going to tell me what I have to do, and 3) Politics, with many conservative political types not buying into COVID/vaccine stuff. I suppose you could add mRNA conspiracy theorists as a fourth. Of course those conspiracy theorists probably belong to groups 2 and 3 anyway. I know people in all four groups! I doubt an oral vaccine would change any of that. 

I’ll be prepared to mask up indoors again this ski season. Just got my booster, hopefully that helps contribute to a continued COVID free run. Who knows?’


----------



## Yukon Cornelius

snoloco said:


> If we're still locking down 100% vaccinated college campuses like prisons, one must take a step back and ask what are we trying to accomplish? I don't believe anyone in charge could give you a clear answer. That's the problem with this whole thing. My opinion is that nothing is going to stop cases, but hospitalizations and deaths can be greatly reduced through high vaccination rates. I know it's hard in certain political climates, but elected officials, college presidents, etc need to realize that trying to stop transmission is not practical or sustainable and move on. An example of doing this the right way is Vermont. While they're repeatedly smashing case records, their hospitalizations and deaths per 100k are significantly lower than most states, and the governor is resisting calls to declare a state of emergency and bring back restrictions like mask wearing and capacity limits, even though cases are higher than when those restrictions were in effect. The rationale is that anyone who wants to be vaccinated is already, and it's unfair to punish those who are to protect those who aren't.


100% Vaccinated by Christmas. NO EXCUSES.

Sorry, Dude. Had to do it! ? I actually agree with you... 100%.


----------



## Brownski

Yukon Cornelius said:


> 100% Vaccinated by Christmas. NO EXCUSES.
> 
> Sorry, Dude. Had to do it! ? I actually agree with you... 100%.


Ha! Wish I’d thought of that. I agree on both counts.


----------



## Country Gun

Brownski said:


> Ha! Wish I’d thought of that. I agree on both counts.


We have a history of vaccine trouble.Let it be.Take if you want it , leave others that don’t alone!


----------



## Tjf1967

Country Gun said:


> We have a history of vaccine trouble.Let it be.Take if you want it , leave others that don’t alone!


I don't bother anyone. I don't care. It's seems fair to keep your distance if your not.


----------



## CNY Skier

JTG said:


> That notwithstanding…..I doubt there are many who aren’t getting the vaccine because they don’t like shot, adults at least. IMHO the three prevalent reasons for those not getting vaccinated are 1) hesitancy based on the unknown potential future impacts of a “new” vaccine, 2) “Freedom”, nobody is going to tell me what I have to do, and 3) Politics, with many conservative political types not buying into COVID/vaccine stuff. I suppose you could add mRNA conspiracy theorists as a fourth. Of course those conspiracy theorists probably belong to groups 2 and 3 anyway. I know people in all four groups! I doubt an oral vaccine would change any of that.
> 
> I’ll be prepared to mask up indoors again this ski season. Just got my booster, hopefully that helps contribute to a continued COVID free run. Who knows?’


I fall into category 1 based on my extensive research on the subject. That and the moving goal posts...2 weeks to flatten the curve, vaccines prevent getting Covid, vaccines will keep you safe if you get Covid, Cornell >99% "vaxed" and they shut the college down, etc. It seems, almost by design, that there is no end game in sight. Plus, there are many natural preventive measures that you can take to minimize your risk from this disease. Americans want an easy fix (pill/shot).

Living in NYS distorts my view; worked in PA and DE today and no masking requirements at either place. Actually sat in a conference room with 10+ people and could see their faces...never thought such a simple thing could bring great happiness. Will I come home with Covid? Don't know and at this point don't care - there's more to life than simple survival.

[Back to the subject] I don't get many vacations and it would be nice if we could just go skiing and not worry about this crap. I mean, we're outside for crying out loud. Last year at Killington a liftie told my partner to pull his mask up over his nose...good grief. Kills the fun, for me at least. 

Too each his own but I think we can all agree that it would be nice to get back to the good old days (that being two years ago.)


----------



## Andy_ROC

CNY Skier said:


> I fall into category 1 based on my extensive research on the subject. That and the moving goal posts...2 weeks to flatten the curve, vaccines prevent getting Covid, vaccines will keep you safe if you get Covid, Cornell >99% "vaxed" and they shut the college down, etc. It seems, almost by design, that there is no end game in sight. Plus, there are many natural preventive measures that you can take to minimize your risk from this disease. Americans want an easy fix (pill/shot).
> 
> Living in NYS distorts my view; worked in PA and DE today and no masking requirements at either place. Actually sat in a conference room with 10+ people and could see their faces...never thought such a simple thing could bring great happiness. Will I come home with Covid? Don't know and at this point don't care - there's more to life than simple survival.
> 
> [Back to the subject] I don't get many vacations and it would be nice if we could just go skiing and not worry about this crap. I mean, we're outside for crying out loud. Last year at Killington a liftie told my partner to pull his mask up over his nose...good grief. Kills the fun, for me at least.
> 
> Too each his own but I think we can all agree that it would be nice to get back to the good old days (that being two years ago.)


Promise not to go to the hospital if you start having concerning symptoms?

Asking for my MD friends.


----------



## G.ski

3...2...1


----------



## Campgottagopee

G.ski said:


> 3...2...1


There's no mud slinging, name calling, etc
This is an extremely important topic that needs to be talked about. It's not going away.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Country Gun said:


> We have a history of vaccine trouble.Let it be.Take if you want it , leave others that don’t alone!


I respect this. Respect is a 2-way street. As long as we ALL (vaxed or not) respect the mandates given to business owners I take no issue. Mandates are not laws but there are fines involved for those not enforcing them. Heck, on the news they were promoting a website where people could go and turn in businesses not enforcing these mandates. I see people in stores not wearing masks and it really pisses me off. Don't wear a mask be NYS says so, do it for the owner of the business and their patrons. I can't stand masks! Hate them!!! But I wear one and will continue to do so until this silly mandate is over with, whenever that may be.

Any luck deer hunting this year??? It's been an interesting year, to say the least.


----------



## Campgottagopee

CNY Skier said:


> my extensive research


What is your background? 


CNY Skier said:


> vaccines prevent getting Covid


Can you lease share? I've never read where this has been said


CNY Skier said:


> vaccines will keep you safe if you get Covid


I've never read this either. What I have read, and the math proves, is that your chances of staying out of the hospital during recovery is increased immensely. You do realize that's what this is all about,right?


CNY Skier said:


> no masking requirements at either place


I wish that were the case here in NY too. But it's not, therefore the same 70% of people who wore masks before will again. Nothing will change until more get vaxed (not because it's a cure all, it ain't, but it will increase your chances of staying out of the hospital) and we all wear masks when asked.


----------



## Andy_ROC

Country Gun said:


> We have a history of vaccine trouble.Let it be.Take if you want it , leave others that don’t alone!


File that meme under the list of things that didn't happen and misrepresentation of fact.


----------



## tirolski

Campgottagopee said:


> Any luck deer hunting this year??? It's been an interesting year, to say the least.


What happened the most interesting?


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> What happened the most interesting?


The woods were very, very, very quiet this year. I don't think I can ever remember a year that I heard fewer gun shots than this year. Normally it sounds like a shooting gallery out there for the entire first weekend. It was far from that this year. It seems there are just fewer and fewer hunters out there. It's too bad. As for our camp we're having a less than normal harest this year. But it ain't over yet!


----------



## tirolski

Good luck Camp. Stay safe. Have fun.


Haven’t been out. Don’t need the meat.
Haven’t heard many shots either.
Haven’t seen as many deer around as previously.
Sister in the burb has em around her place daily.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Country Gun said:


> We have a history of vaccine trouble.Let it be.Take if you want it , leave others that don’t alone!


This is part of a message from Al Carbone, the CEO of Saratoga Hospital, sent to all employees and posted on their website:
_
...there are plenty of opinions. But they all pale in comparison with this fact: People are dying.

As of December 13, Saratoga Hospital had a total of 970 COVID-19 admissions and 134 deaths. Those numbers are getting worse every day.
Not one of those deaths was of a previously healthy vaccinated person. All were either unvaccinated or were at a higher risk because of pre-existing health conditions. And that's the point: People who are vaccinated and are admitted to the hospital have serious underlying conditions that make these patients more vulnerable to serious illness and complications—even death—from COVID-19. Otherwise-healthy patients who are hospitalized with COVID-19 have one thing in common: They are not vaccinated.
We are losing vital, previously healthy community members to this disease for one reason only: They are not vaccinated. We have lost unvaccinated healthy men in their 20s, unvaccinated middle-aged fathers and mothers, unvaccinated sons and daughters.
The bottom line: The vaccine is saving lives._

You can "do your own research" about the mythical side effects of vaccines, or listen to people who are actually dealing with the problems caused by vaccine denialism. 

mm


----------



## wonderpony

Campgottagopee said:


> The woods were very, very, very quiet this year. I don't think I can ever remember a year that I heard fewer gun shots than this year. Normally it sounds like a shooting gallery out there for the entire first weekend. It was far from that this year. It seems there are just fewer and fewer hunters out there. It's too bad. As for our camp we're having a less than normal harest this year. But it ain't over yet!


It was the same over here. My son was able to get a doe on my property, and one on his dad's, as well as coming across a young deer that had been shot and still warm. He took that one as well. No bucks, though.


----------



## Campgottagopee

wonderpony said:


> It was the same over here. My son was able to get a doe on my property, and one on his dad's, as well as coming across a young deer that had been shot and still warm. He took that one as well. No bucks, though.


Man, glad he found that deer and was able to take it. No buck for me either .... yet!! But I have gotten a couple doe, meat in the freezer is my #1 goal.
I'm looking forward to this years holiday hunt, as DEC calls it. I've never hunted the day/week after Xmas so that will be a treat. Pressure will be off the deer and hopefully the second rut should be starting. Looking for a big ol Virgil Mountain buck will be my task at hand. Really hoping for snow!


----------



## JTG

Campgottagopee said:


> I respect this. Respect is a 2-way street. As long as we ALL (vaxed or not) respect the mandates given to business owners I take no issue. Mandates are not laws but there are fines involved for those not enforcing them. Heck, on the news they were promoting a website where people could go and turn in businesses not enforcing these mandates. I see people in stores not wearing masks and it really pisses me off. Don't wear a mask be NYS says so, do it for the owner of the business and their patrons. I can't stand masks! Hate them!!! But I wear one and will continue to do so until this silly mandate is over with, whenever that may be.


This!

My daughter worked retail in a consignment shop to fill her COVID pause before moving to Los Angeles to start her career. There were times people actually physically threatened her when she told someone they needed to put on a mask in the store. Did she make the “rules”? No. Did she believe masks were necessary? It didn’t matter. Did she have to obey her boss, who could have been fined, and enforce the posted mask requirement? Bet your ass. 

I’m a good American. I believe in freedom as much as the next American. But that freedom means if you don’t want to observe a mask “mandate” you are free to not enter an establishment with a clearly posted mask policy….rather than ignoring said policy, putting that business owner at risk, and threatening other good Americans just trying to do their f’ing jobs.

Unless I missed the part where the Constitution say “life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the ability to shop wherever and however they damned well please”…..


----------



## CNY Skier

Andy_ROC said:


> Promise not to go to the hospital if you start having concerning symptoms?
> 
> Asking for my MD friends.


Actually, the hospital is the last place I would go. So yes, I promise not to go to the hospital. If you smoke, drink to excess, are obese or a senior citizen do you promise not to go as well? You see, this a dangerous place to visit. Personally I want all people to be treated regardless of their condition - it's the only way a humane society can function.


----------



## raisingarizona

This pandemic business has really brought the worst out in some people.


----------



## CNY Skier

JTG said:


> This!
> 
> My daughter worked retail in a consignment shop to fill her COVID pause before moving to Los Angeles to start her career. There were times people actually physically threatened her when she told someone they needed to put on a mask in the store. Did she make the “rules”? No. Did she believe masks were necessary? It didn’t matter. Did she have to obey her boss, who could have been fined, and enforce the posted mask requirement? Bet your ass.
> 
> I’m a good American. I believe in freedom as much as the next American. But that freedom means if you don’t want to observe a mask “mandate” you are free to not enter an establishment with a clearly posted mask policy….rather than ignoring said policy, putting that business owner at risk, and threatening other good Americans just trying to do their f’ing jobs.
> 
> Unless I missed the part where the Constitution say “life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the ability to shop wherever and however they damned well pleas





Campgottagopee said:


> What is your background?
> 
> Can you lease share? I've never read where this has been said
> 
> I've never read this either. What I have read, and the math proves, is that your chances of staying out of the hospital during recovery is increased immensely. You do realize that's what this is all about,right?
> 
> I wish that were the case here in NY too. But it's not, therefore the same 70% of people who wore masks before will again. Nothing will change until more get vaxed (not because it's a cure all, it ain't, but it will increase your chances of staying out of the hospital) and we all wear masks when asked.


1) Engineering, science.
2) The Pfizer and Moderna test results were based on the number of vax/unvax people that contracted Covid...claimed that the vaxed people were 95% less likely to contract Covid. Those trial results are online and you can read them yourself. The original goal was to prevent contracting Covid.
3) Hard to tell. In Onondaga county the majority of hospitalizations are in the vaxed elderly.
4) Nothing will change until we stop testing people with no symptoms.

Why is it that Florida has nearly zero covid deaths these days? They have no mask mandates, especially for school kids. I don't claim to know why but if you compare FL (not masks, etc.) with NY (masks, passports, etc.) there isn't much difference in the outcome. Perhaps this virus is going to run it's course regardless of supposed interventions?

We're ruining our lives with this insanity. I just want to be free to do the things I love as before, in a manner as before, that's all.


----------



## snoloco

CNY Skier said:


> 4) Nothing will change until we stop testing people with no symptoms.


Surveillance testing is pointless now. It's clear transmission can't be stopped. Doing so just inflates case counts and results in more panic.



CNY Skier said:


> Why is it that Florida has nearly zero covid deaths these days? They have no mask mandates, especially for school kids. I don't claim to know why but if you compare FL (not masks, etc.) with NY (masks, passports, etc.) there isn't much difference in the outcome. Perhaps this virus is going to run it's course regardless of supposed interventions?


The virus just ran its course in Florida. When their summer wave started, they had a very low vaccination rate, particularly in rural areas, so that's why they got hit so bad. What's important to realize is that they have moved on, even before that wave, as have most parts of the country, and as of now aren't really worse off for it.



CNY Skier said:


> We're ruining our lives with this insanity. I just want to be free to do the things I love as before, in a manner as before, that's all.


I believe it's a similar situation to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We kept fighting them long after it was known that they weren't winnable. With covid, elected officials in blue states/cities are demanding and mandating that we continue to fight an unwinnable war (stopping transmission), because not doing so would require admitting that they were wrong. It's hard to put into words how demoralizing that is. I believe there will be harsh political consequences for them next November. Honestly, I'm looking at moving out of state over the latest mandate, because I don't see how it is ever going to be lifted, and I'm worried we are going to end up with more restrictions. That will of course be blamed on the counties that didn't enforce masks, even though the case numbers in my own county, which is one of the ones not enforcing it, are already declining.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Back on topic! Back on topic!


----------



## Peter Minde

raisingarizona said:


> Not super white dudes. This is where I grew up riding. Back then we didn’t have trail heads or wood work, it was all jeep and quad trails. It’s great to see some progression since then as well as minorities enjoying trails.



This is right in my backyard. I recognize most everything they're on. My friends who used to race mountain bikes felt that riding here was a big advantage. Lots of technical bits. The bridge at 4:12 -"Oh, that's sketchy!" is not the sketchiest bridge there.









Wildcat Ridge: The Spring of Our Discontent


Social distancing: I found some were struggling with the idea.




nyskiblog.com


----------



## Andy_ROC

CNY Skier said:


> 1) Engineering, science.
> 2) The Pfizer and Moderna test results were based on the number of vax/unvax people that contracted Covid...claimed that the vaxed people were 95% less likely to contract Covid. Those trial results are online and you can read them yourself. The original goal was to prevent contracting Covid.
> 3) Hard to tell. In Onondaga county the majority of hospitalizations are in the vaxed elderly.
> 4) Nothing will change until we stop testing people with no symptoms.
> 
> Why is it that Florida has nearly zero covid deaths these days? They have no mask mandates, especially for school kids. I don't claim to know why but if you compare FL (not masks, etc.) with NY (masks, passports, etc.) there isn't much difference in the outcome. Perhaps this virus is going to run it's course regardless of supposed interventions?
> 
> We're ruining our lives with this insanity. I just want to be free to do the things I love as before, in a manner as before, that's all.


I believe the end goal of the vaccine has always been to reduce hospitalization, death and symptoms, not necessarily testing positive for covid.

Here in the Rochester region, >70% in the hospital are unvaxed and >85% in ICU are unvaxed. Hospitalizations have been climbing steadily in my region. Not sure who's giving you your numbers for Onondaga, but they just reported 84% of the hospitalized are unvaxed. This phase of the pandemic for this region is one created by largely the unvaxed.

I think a bit of good news is that Omicron may present less severe symptoms. But bad news is that it's far more contagious and maybe more breakthroughs, so running wild could still put a high demand on hospitals--- that's really bad for anyone that may need to go to the hospital for any other health reason... accident, ski injury etc.

As for Florida there are several things to note. (I was just there for 5 days).
1. FL actually has a fairly high vax rate and very comparable to NY.
2. Much of Florida is tourism-- people come and go. Perhaps many that may contract covid there will become ill and test positive in their home state.
3. Florida has abundant sunshine and with that there is an abundance of vitamin D, which greatly helps our immune system. Whereas here in the NE we are sun deprived.
4. Comparatively much of Florida life and socialization is outdoors and open air, which prevents transmission vs NY now where most gathering is enclosed.
5. The pandemic has moved in waves so FL may just be in a trough.
6. FL just dropped the mask mandates in schools so we shall see what happens.
7. Florida overall is hardly a grand model. NY had more than half its deaths in the first 100 days whereas FL flew right past us after that. Populations are very comparable in both states so no need to look at deaths per 100K.

Edited because the first chart I posted was displaying wrong. 

Florida




New York


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> I believe the end goal of the vaccine has always been to reduce hospitalization, death and symptoms, not necessarily testing positive for covid.
> 
> Here in the Rochester region, >70% in the hospital are unvaxed and >85% in ICU are unvaxed. Hospitalizations have been climbing steadily in my region. Not sure who's giving you your numbers for Onondaga, but they just reported 84% of the hospitalized are unvaxed. This phase of the pandemic for this region is one created by largely the unvaxed.
> 
> I think a bit of good news is that Omicron may present less severe symptoms. But bad news is that it's far more contagious and maybe more breakthroughs, so running wild could still put a high demand on hospitals--- that's really bad for anyone that may need to go to the hospital for any other health reason... accident, ski injury etc.
> 
> As for Florida there are several things to note. (I was just there for 5 days).
> 1. FL actually has a fairly high vax rate and very comparable to NY.
> 2. Much of Florida is tourism-- people come and go. Perhaps many that may contract covid there will become ill and test positive in their home state.
> 3. Florida has abundant sunshine and with that there is an abundance of vitamin D, which greatly helps our immune system. Whereas here in the NE we are sun deprived.
> 4. Comparatively much of Florida life and socialization is outdoors and open air, which prevents transmission vs NY now where most gathering is enclosed.
> 5. The pandemic has moved in waves so FL may just be in a trough.
> 6. FL just dropped the mask mandates in schools so we shall see what happens.
> 7. Florida overall is hardly a grand model. NY had more than half its deaths in the first 100 days whereas FL flew right past us after that. Populations are very comparable in both states so no need to look at deaths per 100K.
> 
> 
> View attachment 11342


That graph is garbage. New York has at least 50k deaths.


----------



## tirolski

Andy_ROC said:


> Not sure who's giving you your numbers for Onondaga, but they just reported 84% of the hospitalized are unvaxed. This phase of the pandemic for this region is one created by largely the unvaxed.


Who is giving you your number?
Onondaga County’s Health Department say’s it’s ~50:50 jabbed : unjabbed for hospitalizations.





COVID-19 Data and Reports – Onondaga County COVID-19 Info







covid19.ongov.net


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> Back on topic! Back on topic!


Cody and I are skiing this afternoon.

Just trying to even things out a bit in here. ?

Carry on!


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> That graph is garbage. New York has at least 50k deaths.


Yeah something is wrong with that chart. Anyway NY had deaths early and FL now has far more than NY. All FL deaths came after the NY surge. I need to fix the chart so I don't misrepresent the data and I've removed it. But it doesn't change my message otherwise.


----------



## tirolski

False info on the inter webs?
The horror.

It’s why folks have their skiing webcams down sometimes.


----------



## Andy_ROC

tirolski said:


> Who is giving you your number?
> Onondaga County’s Health Department say’s it’s ~50:50 jabbed : unjabbed for hospitalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 Data and Reports – Onondaga County COVID-19 Info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> covid19.ongov.net


Here is where I got my Onondaga numbers https://www.localsyr.com/health/coronavirus/onondaga-county-announces-two-more-covid-19-deaths/

Looking at the chart you provided it looks like Onondaga cty hospitalizations are being largely driven by the unvaxed until you get to >70.


----------



## tirolski

Andy_ROC said:


> Looking at the chart you provided.


I didn’t provide a chart.
I provided a link to their health department’s data page.
There is a chart in there for "hospitalizations by vaccination status".
Maybe ya should put that one up.

Hopefully it gets cold and snows soon.


----------



## Andy_ROC

tirolski said:


> I didn’t provide a chart.
> I provided a link to their health department’s data page.
> There is a chart in there for "hospitalizations by vaccination status".
> Maybe ya should put that one up.
> 
> Hopefully it gets cold and snows soon.


This one? Still showing majority are unvaxed but trending to 50/50 hence the need for booster.
It's also worthy to note that 60% of deaths since Aug have been unvaxed. I'm guessing the vaxed deaths had underlying health issues. The unvaxed that died felt they were likely invincible. A common theme from my hospital friends. 

Yes it needs to get cold and snow soon.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> Surveillance testing is pointless now. It's clear transmission can't be stopped. Doing so just inflates case counts and results in more panic.


The kid is making sense.


----------



## Harvey

I guess it's not possible to have a thread that sticks to the impact of covid on skiing. Lock, or change the name and move to the OT? I have no idea.



Andy_ROC said:


> View attachment 11345



Granted it's only one county in one state. Still trying to figure our what this chart tells me. It seems to imply that the vax only helps those under 70. But if say a really high percentage of those over 70 are vaxed, could it be that it helps those people too? You only have a small number of people unvaxed so there absolute number is low? If so percentages vs absolute nunbers would be more telling.



Andy_ROC said:


> View attachment 11349



This graphic makes the point. It makes no sense that partially vaxed would be better than fully vaxed. Just that there is a small number of partially vaxed.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> That graph is garbage. New York has at least 50k deaths.



Doesn't that chart show 60k deaths?


----------



## Campgottagopee

Brownski said:


> The kid is making sense.


The one thing he's missing is the fact that hospitals are being overrun......again
That's the issue
We barley have enouogh workers to take care of the sick now


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Reports from South Africa are that the doubling time for Omicron may be as short as 2 days. That implies the entire population of NYS could be infected in 6 weeks. The point of masks is to slow the spread so that hospitals are not overwhelmed before the wave recedes. It's a choice to do small measures to avoid the kind of thing that happened in the city in the spring of 2020. If you wait until a lot of people are infected, it's too late to do anything, If masking is partially effective, vax deniers will say it is 100% ineffective. If it's perfectly effective at stopping the spread, everyone will say it was unnecessary. If it's completely ineffective, the governor will be blamed for not doing enough. It's a no win situation for her.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> That will of course be blamed on the counties that didn't enforce masks, even though the case numbers in my own county, which is one of the ones not enforcing it, are already declining.


You're in Saratoga, right?
Regardless of enforcement, my observation is that compliance in Clifton Park, Halfmoon and Saratoga Springs is almost 100%. Maybe it's different in the Town of Day. The county's statement that masks would not be enforced was just a foolish slap at the governor of a different party, and the county later recommened masks along with a statement that it doesn't have the resources to enforce a ban. That was weak.
COVID is a public health problem that must be addressed on an entirely scientific basis. The fact that even scientific problems are immediately met with partisan political virtue signaling is just about the most discouraging thing about our current circumstances.

mm


----------



## wonderpony

> I guess it's not possible to have a thread that sticks to the impact of covid on skiing. Lock, or change the name and move to the OT? I have no idea.


How's this? 

I think about the impact on the supply chain and the labor shortage. It's a good thing that GP put RFID scanners in. That eliminates the need for a few positions. It seemed like they were short of lifties last season. OTOH, if RFID scanners eliminate jobs, that's a bad thing. But, if people are unable/unwilling to work, then RFID is a good thing. And, it will mean less close contact with people.

GP has what, two or three people working in the repair shop. The shop could very easily have to shut down if it spreads between them. I wax my own skis, but I do like to bring them in periodically for a professional to take care of. They could be short staffed for a very, very long time.

Cornell, and many other universities, have ski teams. Who knows when they will get to practice again, even when we do get snow. 318 student cases on Wednesday. On November 17, we had 5.


----------



## JTG

Brownski said:


> The kid is making sense.


Is surveillance testing still a thing? I don’t think my kid’s colleges have been doing it this semester.


----------



## wonderpony

JTG said:


> Is surveillance testing still a thing? I don’t think my kid’s colleges have been doing it this semester.


Only for the undergrads at Cornell. The grad students are not required. What this means is that they are hanging out in their shared offices, unmasked. Thankfully, I have my own office. I started voluntarily weekly testing a few weeks ago, mostly because at that time, I was going to a yoga class where we didn't have to wear a mask. It was lovely. Last week, however, I wore a mask.


----------



## JTG

wonderpony said:


> Only for the undergrads at Cornell. The grad students are not required. What this means is that they are hanging out in their shared offices, unmasked. Thankfully, I have my own office. I started voluntarily weekly testing a few weeks ago, mostly because at that time, I was going to a yoga class where we didn't have to wear a mask. It was lovely. Last week, however, I wore a mask.


So, surveillance testing is to blame for Cornell shutting the campus down?

My indoor soccer league now requires a mask to be worn. Uggg.


----------



## wonderpony

JTG said:


> So, surveillance testing is to blame for Cornell shutting the campus down?
> 
> My indoor soccer league now requires a mask to be worn. Uggg.


Cornell is not shut down. I am still here. Exams went online, that's pretty much it, other than student groups can't meet and students can't access the gyms. My coworker went swimming the other day and pretty much had the pool to herself.


----------



## JTG

wonderpony said:


> Cornell is not shut down. I am still here. Exams went online, that's pretty much it, other than student groups can't meet and students can't access the gyms. My coworker went swimming the other day and pretty much had the pool to herself.


I guess the “Cornell Shuts Down Ithaca Campus” headline was clickbait-y? Students staying on campus then, just no classes, in person finals, activities, fall graduation ceremonies, etc.


----------



## G.ski

Harvey said:


> I guess it's not possible to have a thread that sticks to the impact of covid on skiing. Lock, or change the name and move to the OT? I have no idea.


Like politics in general. Frankly the virus is politics right now.

I'm giving up trying to inject humor or keep it light...just pisses some off even more.

Good luck Harvey


----------



## Andy_ROC

G.ski said:


> Like politics in general. Frankly the virus is politics right now.
> 
> I'm giving up trying to inject humor or keep it light...just pisses some off even more.
> 
> Good luck Harvey


Well the discussion looks pretty civil yesterday and today, so I don't see the harm about discussing data.

What we have(not so much here) is people that will complain about anything. Every protocol becomes drama and an affront on their rights yet they selfishly ignore the rights of others. If a business wants you to wear a mask then do it or not patronize. If wearing a mask helps the employees feel less stressed then do it or don't patronize. If a business wants proof of Vax then show it or don't patronize. The governor is in a no win. Do nothing and she gets blamed as well. I know our local health providers are concerned about hospital capacity and staffing and that should be a caution to all of us. Somehow we forgot to be courteous and empathetic to others.


----------



## wonderpony

JTG said:


> I guess the “Cornell Shuts Down Ithaca Campus” headline was clickbait-y? Students staying on campus then, just no classes, in person finals, activities, fall graduation ceremonies, etc.


Right. There are still plenty of students on campus. I just passed a few when I was out jogging. 

They are not supposed to leave until they have a negative test. That's going to suck for a whole bunch, who have tested positive in the past few days.


----------



## tirolski

Back on topic.








Swiss skier Gut-Behrami tests positive, to miss 4 WCup races


VAL D'ISERE, France (AP) — Swiss skier Lara Gut-Behrami has tested positive for COVID-19 and will miss the next four World Cup races in France, her team said Friday. Gut-Behrami, a two-time world championship gold medalist, is now in isolation after taking a PCR test in Switzerland.




apnews.com




and this.








How Italian ski resorts are trying to reopen safely using vaccine passports


Many of Italy’s ski resorts reopened this month for the first time since march 2020 when they were forced to close as COVID swept across the country. The industry as a whole lost billions. Even with a spike in cases, and omicron looming, ski operators have a new plan they say will keep people...




www.pbs.org


----------



## Campgottagopee

G.ski said:


> Like politics in general. Frankly the virus is politics right now.
> 
> I'm giving up trying to inject humor or keep it light...just pisses some off even more.
> 
> Good luck Harvey


I don't see anyone getting pissed off? 
Harv doesn't need luck, rather have us all be civil about discussing covid.


----------



## G.ski

Campgottagopee said:


> I don't see anyone getting pissed off?
> Harv doesn't need luck, rather have us all be civil about discussing covid.


Agreed. Not wishing for conflict. Just seems to wind up that way in today’s climate. I guess it’s my issue mostly. Mentally and physically I’ve moved on from this virus. I’ve done what I can to be a good citizen. Others have chosen not to. I’m in excellent health and take pride in that; my family as well. Some choose otherwise. The time has come to realize we have made our choices and it’s time we live with those choices. Whatever the outcome because life must go on.


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> What we have(not so much here) is people that will complain about anything. Every protocol becomes drama and an affront on their rights yet they selfishly ignore the rights of others. If a business wants you to wear a mask then do it or not patronize. If wearing a mask helps the employees feel less stressed then do it or don't patronize. If a business wants proof of Vax then show it or don't patronize.


The problem is these rules have been in place for so long that it's really wearing thin on everyone. And a lot of these measures haven't been proven to be effective. I think the public is catching onto that slowly but surely. I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates. I vote with my feet (and wallet). When I'm skiing at Killington, I'll usually buy lunch and eat inside, because they don't force me to wear a mask. I won't do that if I'm at Stratton which not only has mandatory masks, but requires reservations to eat in the cafeteria. Like no. Just no. 
I'll ski straight through lunch and hit 7/11 on the way out.



Andy_ROC said:


> The governor is in a no win. Do nothing and she gets blamed as well. I know our local health providers are concerned about hospital capacity and staffing and that should be a caution to all of us. Somehow we forgot to be courteous and empathetic to others.


I think Florida showed us that you can keep things fully open, despite a large wave that stresses hospitals, and be politically unscathed. I really feel for any small businesses in NY, particularly retail. They were looking forward to a good holiday season, and now that there's a mask mandate, I believe many people will go back to shopping online. Our economy hasn't seen the recovery that other states have, particularly in NYC, and our governor stuck a fork in it. Literally offices that had just reopened went back to remote.

To the point of being courteous and empathetic, it goes without saying that violence or verbal abuse are always inappropriate. However, I have zero respect for public health experts and elected officials who kept pushing these restrictions. It was a huge mistake to think that you could get all of society to put their lives on hold for this long, cut people off from social circles, put millions out of work, and there not be any collateral damage. 

I can only speak for myself. I was happy to comply with all the restrictions before vaccines. I got the vaccine and booster at the first opportunity. I feel like I did the right thing. And now, 20 months later, we're back to wearing masks everywhere, despite being told all along that vaccines were the way back to normalcy. 80% of people took them, so it feels like we are being punished for those who didn't. To say that I'm angry would be an understatement. I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state. Once again, I can only speak for myself, but I have to believe that I'm not alone.


----------



## Harvey

That's some pretty thoughtful input and I agree with a lot of it. The only thing I am really doing different, is wearing a mask in stores, and trying to avoid large events. For some people doing that really sucks I guess. For me it's not a big deal.

Last Sunday was the first big event I've been to since the beginning of covid. It was a gymnastics meet. Those things are tough anyway, you are there for seven hours, but your kid is only flying through the air for about 5 mins of that.

I wore my mask the whole time, stepped out side for air between events. Maybe 1000 people — 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 — masks, no mask, and half mast. Six days later so far so good. I MUST have been exposed to a bunch of covid right?

So I've... had covid, two moderna in May, and then the moderna booster three weeks ago. If that ain't good to go, I give up.


----------



## snoloco

As long as I don't have to wear a mask, I'll do anything I did before the pandemic. 

Another thing I forgot to mention that I think is causing a lot of problems, is the way blue states are codifying CDC recommendations into legal mandates. The CDC should be making recommendations, and they are always going to err on the side of caution. That's fine, but our elected officials need to understand that, and not mandate this stuff, because I don't see the recommendations changing, and that means we'll never get back to normal. For as long as the CDC is recommending masks, they will be mandated indoors on federal land (which affects a lot of ski areas), and in federal buildings. That's just one example.


----------



## x10003q

Stop using Florida as an example - they have been manipulating and lying about their covid numbers.








DeSantis, Social Media Posts Mislead on COVID-19's Toll in Florida - FactCheck.org


Florida's total COVID-19 case rate is higher than the national rate and 10th highest in the U.S. But social media posts and the state's governor point to a recent decline in daily cases as evidence of Florida's success in handling COVID-19, while ignoring the full impact of the pandemic's toll...




www.factcheck.org


----------



## jimmypete

I have read that there is no credible account of one transmission of COVID ascribed to someone skiing


----------



## wonderpony

All I know is that my dad is 81 and if I were the source of him catching covid and dying, I couldn't handle it. I juggled my life a lot last year and can do it again. If I get tested on a Wednesday, I should be clear to visit him on the weekend. That's how I plan on coping once again.

We live in a weird world when you think "Phew! Only 225 positives today and an infection rate of 7ish percent "


----------



## MarzNC

wonderpony said:


> I think about the impact on the supply chain and the labor shortage. It's a good thing that GP put RFID scanners in. That eliminates the need for a few positions. It seemed like they were short of lifties last season. OTOH, if RFID scanners eliminate jobs, that's a bad thing. But, if people are unable/unwilling to work, then RFID is a good thing. And, it will mean less close contact with people.


Depending on how much checking is done for RFID passes, there are still jobs for lifties. At Alta there is always a liftie looking at a tablet to see if the picture/name is a decent match as passes are scanned when people go through the RFID gates.

For the places that make use of the RFID data, it's more reliable than hand scanning.

Outdoors, it really is not a very low risk of exposure of when a liftie is near someone headed to a lift.


----------



## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> That's some pretty thoughtful input and I agree with a lot of it. The only thing I am really doing different, is wearing a mask in stores, and trying to avoid large events. For some people doing that really sucks I guess. For me it's not a big deal.
> 
> Last Sunday was the first big event I've been to since the beginning of covid. It was a gymnastics meet. Those things are tough anyway, you are there for seven hours, but your kid is only flying through the air for about 5 mins of that.
> 
> I wore my mask the whole time, stepped out side for air between events. Maybe 1000 people — 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 — masks, no mask, and half mast. Six days later so far so good. I MUST have been exposed to a bunch of covid right?
> 
> So I've... had covid, two moderna in May, and then the moderna booster three weeks ago. If that ain't good to go, I give up.


Yup. At this point I’m like, if I die I die. It’s meant to be.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> I'll ski straight through lunch and hit 7/11 on the way out.


Two thirds coke, one third cherry slurpee + 2 Buffalo chicken taquitos and you’re good to go


----------



## x10003q

raisingarizona said:


> Yup. At this point I’m like, if I die I die. It’s meant to be.


You might want to rethink that - kids usually deserve to have their parents. You add a lot here with a different point of view and I am sure that is valuable for your daughter.


----------



## snoloco

Found this on Twitter. I'm definitely group C, vaxxed by choice and over it. I feel like this should be a poll, but I can't post one in this thread.


----------



## Harvey

snoloco said:


> I feel like this should be a poll


Guaranteed food fight.


----------



## Tjf1967

B


----------



## Milo Maltbie

B

mm


----------



## raisingarizona

C but I’m getting my booster.

I agree with most of Sno’s sentiments on this whole mess.


----------



## Ripitz

B

One of Peanut’s teachers tested positive so the daycare is shut down again. She’s has to quarantine for 10 days. Cancelled a lot of Christmas events. No skiing until after Christmas.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Just like college
C


----------



## Brownski

raisingarizona said:


> C but I’m getting my booster.
> 
> I agree with most of Sno’s sentiments on this whole mess.


Me too - and I got my booster last week


----------



## Peter Minde

snoloco said:


> The problem is these rules have been in place for so long that it's really wearing thin on everyone. And a lot of these measures haven't been proven to be effective. I think the public is catching onto that slowly but surely. I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates. I vote with my feet (and wallet). When I'm skiing at Killington, I'll usually buy lunch and eat inside, because they don't force me to wear a mask. I won't do that if I'm at Stratton which not only has mandatory masks, but requires reservations to eat in the cafeteria. Like no. Just no.
> I'll ski straight through lunch and hit 7/11 on the way out.
> 
> 
> I think Florida showed us that you can keep things fully open, despite a large wave that stresses hospitals, and be politically unscathed. I really feel for any small businesses in NY, particularly retail. They were looking forward to a good holiday season, and now that there's a mask mandate, I believe many people will go back to shopping online. Our economy hasn't seen the recovery that other states have, particularly in NYC, and our governor stuck a fork in it. Literally offices that had just reopened went back to remote.
> 
> To the point of being courteous and empathetic, it goes without saying that violence or verbal abuse are always inappropriate. However, I have zero respect for public health experts and elected officials who kept pushing these restrictions. It was a huge mistake to think that you could get all of society to put their lives on hold for this long, cut people off from social circles, put millions out of work, and there not be any collateral damage.
> 
> I can only speak for myself. I was happy to comply with all the restrictions before vaccines. I got the vaccine and booster at the first opportunity. I feel like I did the right thing. And now, 20 months later, we're back to wearing masks everywhere, despite being told all along that vaccines were the way back to normalcy. 80% of people took them, so it feels like we are being punished for those who didn't. To say that I'm angry would be an understatement. I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state. Once again, I can only speak for myself, but I have to believe that I'm not alone.


DeSantis is manipulating and suppressing covid data in FL.


----------



## snoloco

An important thing to note is that there isn't a hard line between B and C. It's a spectrum. I'm firmly on the C side of things.


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> The problem is these rules have been in place for so long that it's really wearing thin on everyone. And a lot of these measures haven't been proven to be effective. I think the public is catching onto that slowly but surely. I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates. I vote with my feet (and wallet). When I'm skiing at Killington, I'll usually buy lunch and eat inside, because they don't force me to wear a mask. I won't do that if I'm at Stratton which not only has mandatory masks, but requires reservations to eat in the cafeteria. Like no. Just no.
> I'll ski straight through lunch and hit 7/11 on the way out.
> 
> 
> I think Florida showed us that you can keep things fully open, despite a large wave that stresses hospitals, and be politically unscathed. I really feel for any small businesses in NY, particularly retail. They were looking forward to a good holiday season, and now that there's a mask mandate, I believe many people will go back to shopping online. Our economy hasn't seen the recovery that other states have, particularly in NYC, and our governor stuck a fork in it. Literally offices that had just reopened went back to remote.
> 
> To the point of being courteous and empathetic, it goes without saying that violence or verbal abuse are always inappropriate. However, I have zero respect for public health experts and elected officials who kept pushing these restrictions. It was a huge mistake to think that you could get all of society to put their lives on hold for this long, cut people off from social circles, put millions out of work, and there not be any collateral damage.
> 
> I can only speak for myself. I was happy to comply with all the restrictions before vaccines. I got the vaccine and booster at the first opportunity. I feel like I did the right thing. And now, 20 months later, we're back to wearing masks everywhere, despite being told all along that vaccines were the way back to normalcy. 80% of people took them, so it feels like we are being punished for those who didn't. To say that I'm angry would be an understatement. I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state. Once again, I can only speak for myself, but I have to believe that I'm not alone.


Pretty thoughtful and I appreciate that.

Yes we're all tired. Our family too was very careful--- we maintained a tight social circle until we got vaxed. (we're all boosted now as well) But once I was vaxed I felt the pandemic was pretty much over.

But with detla (now omicron) and relaxed rules things have started trending in the wrong direction--- so unfortunately it's not over. I'm in Rochester and our doctors at URMC and Rochester Regional were speaking on the local news this week. They are very concerned about hospital occupancy trends. We are at or have exceeded our highest hospitalizations yet in the pandemic. The hospitals now have patients in hallways and other overflow areas not previously used. I have some family MD's and they are exhausted. They also said the VAST majority of whom are being admitted in this area are unvaxed. Overrun hospitals puts us all at risk, even if we're safe from covid. Antivaxers should just stay away from the hospital since they refused the number one treatment to keep them out of it! Anyway enough of that rant.

As for mask wearing, yeah I hate it as well but it won't keep me from shopping at a particular store. For example Home Depot was requesting ALL customers wear masks about 2 months ago (well before any mandates) and I gladly complied as did most others in the HD stores that I went to. REI started it a ~month ago. If someplace like Stratton wants me to wear a mask as I order my food and walk to my table, no problem. Especially if it helps others and most importantly the employees feel better. As for those that walk around without masks, I feel they are pathetically rude, entitled and selfishly inconsiderate toward everyone and most importantly toward the employees that came into work each day instead of collecting unemployment. Whether someone thinks masks work or not is irrelevant.

As for your claim that rules have been ineffective, that just isn't so. Our numbers here in western NY were one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the nation during spring, summer and early fall of 2020 during heavy rules, while at the same time it was blowing up in places like FL. As for your comparison about FL, I believe it's a horrible analog for reasons I posted why earlier in this thread. Bottom line is NY and FL have lost about the same number of people, but FL has had 2x the number of deaths since late spring 2020 as NY--- so hardly wonderful.

As for your complaints about politicians, well who doesn't. Personally I loathe virtually all of them. But as for public health, they're being advised by doctors, infectious disease experts and hospitals admins regarding capacity etc. As for feeling like you've been lied to, you really need to keep this in mind--- Science is constantly evolving and unlike a political position, scientific guidance will be modified as new information is learned.

As for me I'm boosted and taking vitamins in hopes of boosting my immune system. I'm traveling. Already flew to FL for golf 2 weeks ago. This winter I plan on flying out west once or twice to ski and maybe even VT or Canada. I will likely be cautious and avoid very crowded indoor places around people I don't know unless the establishment requires a vax passport. I will gladly comply with masking, especially to help employees feel more at ease. And God I hope I don't get hurt and need urgent medical attention.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Andy_ROC said:


> Pretty thoughtful and I appreciate that.
> 
> Yes we're all tired. Our family too was very careful--- we maintained a tight social circle until we got vaxed. (we're all boosted now as well) But once I was vaxed I felt the pandemic was pretty much over.
> 
> But with detla (now omicron) and relaxed rules things have started trending in the wrong direction--- so unfortunately it's not over. I'm in Rochester and our doctors at URMC and Rochester Regional were speaking on the local news this week. They are very concerned about hospital occupancy trends. We are at or have exceeded our highest hospitalizations yet in the pandemic. The hospitals now have patients in hallways. I have some family MD's and they are exhausted. They also said the VAST majority of whom are being admitted in this area are unvaxed. Overrun hospitals puts us all at risk, even if we're safe from covid. Antivaxers should just stay away from the hospital since they refused the number one treatment to keep them out of it! Anyway enough of that rant.
> 
> As for mask wearing, yeah I hate it as well but it won't keep me from shopping at a particular store. For example Home Depot was requesting ALL customers wear masks about 2 months ago (well before any mandates) and I gladly complied as did most others in the HD stores that I went to. REI started it a ~month ago. If someplace like Stratton wants me to wear a mask as I order my food and walk to my table, no problem. Especially if it helps others and most importantly the employees feel better. As for those that walk around without masks, I feel they are pathetically rude, entitled and selfishly inconsiderate toward everyone and most importantly toward the employees that came into work each day instead of collecting unemployment. Whether someone thinks masks work or not is irrelevant.
> 
> As for your claim that rules have been ineffective, that just isn't so. Our numbers here in western NY were one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the nation during spring, summer and early fall of 2020 during heavy rules, while at the same time it was blowing up in places like FL. As for your comparison about FL, I believe it's a horrible analog for reasons I posted why earlier in this thread. Bottom line is NY and FL have lost about the same number of people, but FL has had 2x the number of deaths since late spring 2020 as NY--- so hardly wonderful.
> 
> As for your complaints about politicians, well who doesn't. Personally I loathe virtually all of them. But as for public health, they're being advised by doctors, infectious disease experts and hospitals admins regarding capacity etc. As for feeling like you've been lied to, you really need to keep this in mind--- Science is constantly evolving and unlike a political position, scientific guidance will be modified as new information is learned.
> 
> As for me I'm boosted and taking vitamins in hopes of boosting my immune system. I'm traveling. Already flew to FL for golf 2 weeks ago. This winter I plan on flying out west once or twice to ski and maybe even VT or Canada. I will likely be cautious and avoid very crowded indoor places around people I don't know unless the establishment requires a vax passport. I will gladly comply with masking, especially to help employees feel more at ease. And God I hope I don't get hurt and need urgent medical attention.


This is where I am 
You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
It ain't over.


----------



## raisingarizona

Campgottagopee said:


> This is where I am
> You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
> It ain't over.


Our hospitals here are at the point of being completely full and health care workers have to make those really tough decisions.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Campgottagopee said:


> This is where I am
> You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
> It ain't over.


That what the infectious disease docs are saying here too. We are in the phase where stricter precautions seem unnecessary to the general public, but experts expect omicron to explode. Even if the new variant is less virulent, there will still be a huge impact on hospital operations. If delta doubles every 5 days, after a month there will be one hundred new infections from one infection on the first day of the month. If omicron doubles every 2 days there will be 30 thousand cases in the same time. Even if only 0.5 percent of omicron cases are serious enough for hspitalization, that's still more than the total number of delta infections. Exponential growth can be a butch.

mm


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates.


IME businesses want clear rules and they want them enforced equally. I'm sure there are plenty of retail workers who want everyone to masks, but without an enforcible mandate there is no way an individual worker can even request that. Even if an owner requires masks, he's competing with everyone who does not have that requirement.



snoloco said:


> I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state.


You should be angry at anti-vaxxers because they are the ones who are spreading the virus and filling the hospitals, which is what has caused responsible public health officials to recommend various restrictions. Anti-vaxxers are also the ones who refuse to mask up voluntarily, which is why we have mask mandates. If you were abused and lied to, it was by the anti-vaxxers and the phony internet anti-vaccine "experts." Scientific advice always changes as we learn more. You should know that. 

mm


----------



## JTG

snoloco said:


> An important thing to note is that there isn't a hard line between B and C.


Right, so I’ll go B minus.


----------



## snoloco

Milo Maltbie said:


> IME businesses want clear rules and they want them enforced equally. I'm sure there are plenty of retail workers who want everyone to masks, but without an enforcible mandate there is no way an individual worker can even request that. Even if an owner requires masks, he's competing with everyone who does not have that requirement.


It's not reasonable to force people to cover their faces in public indefinitely, so they're going to have to come to terms with that reality.


Milo Maltbie said:


> You should be angry at anti-vaxxers because they are the ones who are spreading the virus and filling the hospitals, which is what has caused responsible public health officials to recommend various restrictions. Anti-vaxxers are also the ones who refuse to mask up voluntarily, which is why we have mask mandates. If you were abused and lied to, it was by the anti-vaxxers and the phony internet anti-vaccine "experts." Scientific advice always changes as we learn more. You should know that.
> 
> mm


Punishing the vaccinated because of the antivaxxers is not a strategy that will end well for those who are pushing it.


----------



## G.ski

snoloco said:


> Punishing the vaccinated because of the antivaxxers is not a strategy that will end well for those who are pushing it.


I'm a solid group C as well.

And I totally agree with you regarding the above quote. Forcing a majority of cooperative citizens to be restricted due to lowest common denominator thinking is wrong and will be "punished". Not to mention that it will have no effect at all on the lowest common denominator population!


----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> It's not reasonable to force people to cover their faces in public indefinitely, so they're going to have to come to terms with that reality.


Even the Taliban is starting to understand this. Be thankful you’re not a Muslim woman living in an Arab country.


----------



## wonderpony

B+. I take care of my horse daily. I don't trust the farm owner's son. He forgets things like water and hay while planning his next big project that he can't afford.

Other than that, I make sure I have enough to and wine and call it good.


----------



## x10003q

snoloco said:


> It's not reasonable to force people to cover their faces in public indefinitely, so they're going to have to come to terms with that reality.
> 
> Punishing the vaccinated because of the antivaxxers is not a strategy that will end well for those who are pushing it.


It is about the helping fellow Americans, including the vaccinated who have underlying issues and the people working in hospitals.

The high death rate for the vaccinated is mostly focused on those older than 60. These are the majority of people who have other health complications. While you might be vaccinated, you can still get covid and spread covid. As a younger person, you might never even know if you have covid. Wearing a mask will decrease the odds of you unknowingly spreading covid.

The medical staff across the US is getting beaten to a pulp. Wearing a mask were it is recommended is the least I can do.


----------



## Campgottagopee

x10003q said:


> As a younger person,


3 days ago our hospital had a 35yo with zero underlying conditions pass away from COVID. 
It happens so why not band together and do what we can.


----------



## jasonwx

My boosted daughter has covid
Thankfully a mild case
She said everyone in nyc now has it


----------



## Campgottagopee

jasonwx said:


> My boosted daughter has covid
> Thankfully a mild case
> She said everyone in nyc now has it


We tested ourselves yesterday. Both of us are fighting colds and thought maybe.....
Glad your daughter has a mild case. I think it's only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I had it this time last year so I'm about due for another round of it.


----------



## snoloco

x10003q said:


> It is about the helping fellow Americans, including the vaccinated who have underlying issues and the people working in hospitals.
> 
> The high death rate for the vaccinated is mostly focused on those older than 60. These are the majority of people who have other health complications. While you might be vaccinated, you can still get covid and spread covid. As a younger person, you might never even know if you have covid. Wearing a mask will decrease the odds of you unknowingly spreading covid.
> 
> The medical staff across the US is getting beaten to a pulp. Wearing a mask were it is recommended is the least I can do.


I'm vaccinated and boosted. Without symptoms or known exposure, I'm just going to assume I'm not infected. Sorry, but I don't owe anyone anything.


----------



## Peter Minde

snoloco said:


> I'm vaccinated and boosted. Without symptoms or known exposure, I'm just going to assume I'm not infected. Sorry, but I don't owe anyone anything.


"Sorry but I don't owe anyone anything."

Attitude like this is why hospitals are still overwhelmed with covid cases.


----------



## snoloco

No. I got the vaccine and booster. Fuck you.


----------



## Warp daddy

snoloco said:


> No. I got the vaccine and booster. Fuck you.


Young ,naive, entitled and self centered ...the perfect foil


----------



## snoloco

Warp daddy said:


> Young ,naive, entitled and self centered ...the perfect foil


I literally did the best, most effective thing I could to protect myself and others. Apparently that's not good enough for you. Hide in your basement in a hazmat suit if you want. The rest of us will go live our lives.


----------



## Tjf1967

snoloco said:


> I'm vaccinated and boosted. Without symptoms or known exposure, I'm just going to assume I'm not infected. Sorry, but I don't owe anyone anything.


----------



## Warp daddy

snoloco said:


> I literally did the best, most effective thing I could to protect myself and others. Apparently that's not good enough for you. Hide in your basement in a hazmat suit if you want. The rest of us will go live our lives.


Do mankind a huge favor : Do not procreate .


Your self centered egotism and frankly juvenile attitude are exactly what is wrong with this entire country's over use of rights of the individual rather than working for The common good .

Any strength used to excess becomes a weakness


----------



## Ripitz

This whole thing is hard on all of us. Especially for young people. I understand it’s very limiting Sno. We still have a lot to be thankful for. Concentrate on what you can do not what you can’t.


----------



## raisingarizona

Dang. Shit just got real.


----------



## snoloco

raisingarizona said:


> Dang. Shit just got real.


That's what happens when you equate me with being an anti-vaxxer which I clearly am not.


----------



## Country Gun

Warp daddy said:


> Do mankind a huge favor : Do not procreate .
> 
> 
> Your self centered egotism and frankly juvenile attitude are exactly what is wrong with this entire country's over use of rights of the individual rather than working for The common good .
> 
> Any strength used to excess becomes a weakness


Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.


----------



## raisingarizona

This virus crap has clearly pushed people over the edge.


----------



## snoloco

Ripitz said:


> This whole thing is hard on all of us. Especially for young people. I understand it’s very limiting Sno. We still have a lot to be thankful for. Concentrate on what you can do not what you can’t.


We've clearly come a long way. I remember skiing each weekend last season as if it was the last weekend of the season, not knowing whether ski areas would be open the following weekend. That's not the case now, at least in Vermont. I'd probably be more worried if I was still a passholder at a New York resort.

As of now, what matters to me most is returning to old normal. Everything else comes after that.


----------



## Sbob




----------



## Ripitz

snoloco said:


> We've clearly come a long way. I remember skiing each weekend last season as if it was the last weekend of the season, not knowing whether ski areas would be open the following weekend. That's not the case now, at least in Vermont. I'd probably be more worried if I was still a passholder at a New York resort.
> 
> As of now, what matters to me most is returning to old normal. Everything else comes after that.


Skiing is a luxury. I’m more concerned about the health of my family right now.


----------



## Warp daddy

Ripitz said:


> Skiing is a luxury. I’m more concerned about the health of my family right now.


In the larger order of life ,Skiing is Nothing ,a diversion at best .Taking care of others is the greater good .

Perspective .


----------



## Warp daddy

Country Gun said:


> Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.


Nonsense ,grow up . 

You are acting like spoiled brats .

This is a health crisis ,you as an individual cry assing about selfish nonessential whims mean little in such circumstances


----------



## Harvey

Ugh. Locked.


----------



## saratogahalfday

86 employees and counting. I'm curious how that will affect mountain opps?


----------



## Tjf1967

saratogahalfday said:


> 86 employees and counting. I'm curious how that will affect mountain opps?


I bet sno doesn't feel bad for them. They better get theirs sorry assess to work so they can get that boy up the hill.


----------



## jasonwx

wonderful
i had plans to ski there tue/wed


----------



## Tjf1967

jasonwx said:


> wonderful
> i had plans to ski there tue/wed


It's the beginning of the end. Unless they shut down I would go.


----------



## Harvey

Tjf1967 said:


> It's the beginning of the end. Unless they shut down I would go.


splain Ricky.

It has to affect operations right? 86 out of 1000 total? More to follow I bet.


----------



## tirolski

Ya actually think shit’s only @ Big K?


----------



## Tjf1967

Harvey said:


> splain Ricky.
> 
> It has to affect operations right? 86 out of 1000 total? More to follow I bet.


If they can't get enough workers they will have to shut down right?? He is vaxed and boosted all he will get is a cold. We all ski during flu season... It's now just covid season.


----------



## Campgottagopee

Wait, what? I thought VT was the perfect example of how to handle COVID protocol...lol


----------



## Campgottagopee

tirolski said:


> Ya actually think shit’s only @ Big K?


Obviously no. It's only a matter of time before it happens here at GP. My wife told me our ER looked like a 3rd world country yesterday.


----------



## raisingarizona

So it’s blowing up during the peak holiday and travel season? No way, who would’ve thunk?

Everything is so fucked.

Flagstaff canceled the New Years pine cone drop.


----------



## lukoson

My friend came up with his son on Wednesday to ski with us at gore on Thursday. He tested negative the morning before coming up and I had tested negative a few days earlier. Yesterday he called me that his daughter just tested positive and today I woke up feeling bleh and just tested positive.Seems like we did everything right other than skipping our yearly ski outing. Happy I managed to avoid it until after getting boosted and looking forward to skiing after my quarantine ends.


----------



## Ripitz

lukoson said:


> My friend came up with his son on Wednesday to ski with us at gore on Thursday. He tested negative the morning before coming up and I had tested negative a few days earlier. Yesterday he called me that his daughter just tested positive and today I woke up feeling bleh and just tested positive.Seems like we did everything right other than skipping our yearly ski outing. Happy I managed to avoid it until after getting boosted and looking forward to skiing after my quarantine ends.


I hope it’s mild and you feel better soon.


----------



## Brownski

Feel better


----------



## tirolski

Hope y’all get well soon lukoson.


----------



## tirolski

See hot spots map for counties in the west in NY times.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html


Do a lot of the hotspot counties have big ski resorts out west? 
Yup. 
Is it due to just running more tests in those counties? and/or more folks visiting to ski in the winter pushing "cases per population” up?
Who knows?


----------



## Andy_ROC

tirolski said:


> See hot spots map for counties in the west in NY times.
> 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
> 
> 
> Do a lot of the hotspot counties have big ski resorts out west?
> Yup.
> Is it due to just running more tests in those counties? and/or more folks visiting to ski in the winter pushing "cases per population” up?
> Who knows?


I would say yes. Anywhere there are population centers the numbers are going to be higher, more people, more spread and more tests. Just like night time satellite maps appear brighter proportional to population  

I'm significantly germaphobic but at this point feel well protected from severe covid illness and omicron is looking less nasty. To me the real indicator and the only one that really concerns me is Emergency Room and Hospital occupancy and staffing. I'm fairly certain the one thing most of us can agree on is that if we have an accident and need urgent medical care we expect to be able to get the best available. If people start flooding hospitals we're all at risk.


----------



## tirolski

Andy_ROC said:


> I'm fairly certain the one thing most of us can agree on is that if we have an accident and need urgent medical care we expect to be able to get the best available. If people start flooding hospitals we're all at risk.


“Urgent" cares were stressed this summer. 
Took a friend who banged his head on the roof of a golf cart and looked like might need some stitches to an Urgent Care facility. 
It’s a long story but after finally getting treated at the 3rd one we went to, talked to the doc and nurse (who provided excellent care) and they were discussing the need to shut that facility down as the wait times being too long were inconsistent with the company's “businesses model”. 
I asked, "what are folks supposed to do then?"
"Go to the ER and wait with everyone else," was the answer.
Doc agreed it was FUBAR. 
My friends head healed up well and the Doc called him a week later to check up on him which was appreciated.


----------



## snoloco

Harvey said:


> splain Ricky.
> 
> It has to affect operations right? 86 out of 1000 total? More to follow I bet.


86 is about 5% of their workforce.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> 86 is about 5% of their workforce.


86 is about 9% , or 8.6% if you are an engineer. 
Enough to cause some problems, or at least major overtime 

mm


----------



## snoloco

No, because they have around 1700 employees, not 1000.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

snoloco said:


> No, because they have around 1700 employees, not 1000.


You can’t change the question to match your answer, but you can still do better on the final.

86 is still enough to shut down the mountain depending on where they work. Hunter shut shut down last year when they lost patrollers and I’m sure that was fewer than 86. 

mm


----------



## snoloco

They have around 1700 employees. 86 out of 1700 is less of a percent than 86 out of 1000. As of now, they have curtailed certain services, but all the normal weekday lifts are scheduled for tomorrow, and they are making snow. You can't compare to last season when almost no one was vaccinated and there were much stricter quarantine policies.


----------



## Harvey

I was just guessing when I said 1000.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

Harvey said:


> I was just guessing when I said 1000.


Were you one of my students too? Most of them tried to guess everything too. 

mm


----------



## snoloco

COVID outbreak at Killington doesn’t deter skiers, riders


Vermont health officials are watching an outbreak of coronavirus among employees at the Killington Mountain Resort. But as our Olivia Lyons found, the COVID cases didn't appear to keep away skiers and riders.




www.wcax.com





This article says about 5%.


----------



## MarzNC

Have heard from a friend (Massanutten regular) that people at Steamboat haven't been masking much indoors since she started skiing yesterday. I have other friends who will be skiing Steamboat next week. We'll see if things change when a higher percentage of the people on the slopes are locals and people who can avoid holiday travel.

Masking at Wolf Creek in the main lodge with the cafeteria and bar was quite good the week of Dec. 11. Presumably most people were locals and regulars. We chatted with a guy on a lift ride who was part of a group of 20 OK State students who were sharing a house for several days. They were a royal pain clogging up the trail at the top of front side lifts (all boarders, mixed abilities) who kept getting yelled out by the liftie at the top. But even they were masking indoors.


----------



## snoloco

Colorado is much more relaxed than anywhere in the Northeast (good for them). I don't believe that Steamboat has a mask requirement for guests. I mostly ski at Killington, so I can only speak for there. They have a mask requirement that applies to the lodges and gondolas. Compliance is nearly 100% in the lodges, but it is widely ignored at both gondolas. I expect compliance to slip further when cases fall. If I'm in a gondola cabin with other unmasked people, then I don't bother wearing mine, and that has usually been the case.


----------



## MarzNC

Getting through the holiday period was tough around SLC. Not having much snow was issue #1. Having breakthrough cases that were probably Omicron was issue #2 because it led to staffing shortages just when every employee was critical. Alta Lifts had staffing shortages that led to Wildcat not running one day and the cancellation of the traditional New Year's Eve celebration event.

December 29, 2021








After COVID outbreaks at Alta, is Utah’s ski industry ready for omicron?


Alta had several COVID-19 outbreaks last week and is not likely alone in feeling the effects of the resurgent coronavirus epidemic, driven by the new omicron variant.




www.sltrib.com





With the pandemic issues at the forefront, I don't think the Alta parking reservation system caused much of an issue. But I wasn't really paying attention.

The Alta parking system is different from what Snowbird and other Powdr resorts were using in 2021-22. From what I can tell as of today, advanced space for January Saturdays and MLK Sunday are sold out. More Week Of spaces are released on Sundays. Only applies to weekends and holidays from 8am-1pm until April 3, or early morning weekdays 6-8am. On weekends, no one is allowed to park before 8am. $25 or $10 if someone buys a lift ticket from Alta.com . A parking reservation is not specific to a particular lot.


----------



## MarzNC

snoloco said:


> I don't believe that Steamboat has a mask requirement for guests.


Actually, Steamboat re-instated a mask required for indoor venues a week ago. Otherwise my friend from DC wouldn't have commented the way she did.

December 29, 2021








Steamboat Resort now requiring masks indoors


Steamboat Resort will now require masks indoors — including in retail shops, restaurants, shuttles, restrooms and lodges — as Routt County’s COVID-19 cases continue to increase.




www.steamboatpilot.com


----------



## MarzNC

I usually didn't bother to mask up when using the larger restroom at Wolf Creek. At least not midweek when there was rarely more than a few other women around and they weren't staying long. I opted to use the restroom as a locker room since it's set up with a nice bench and 75¢ lockers. Most people were locals so very few people bothered with a locker.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> We chatted with a guy on a lift ride who was part of a group of 20 OK State students who were sharing a house for several days. They were a royal pain clogging up the trail at the top of front side lifts (all boarders, mixed abilities) who kept getting yelled out by the liftie at the top.


Dang Okie boarders.


----------



## tirolski

MarzNC said:


> I usually didn't bother to mask up when using the larger restroom at Wolf Creek. At least not midweek when there was rarely more than a few other women around and they weren't staying long. I opted to use the restroom as a locker room since it's set up with a nice bench and 75¢ lockers.


I’ve read these are useful while at the slopes.








F Vail


simple solution to complex problem.. get your ass up early.. I'm usually sitting in a lodge at 7 or 7:30 eating or just drinking coffee... i like to get to a place early enough to park next to the person who opens... Coffee and bowel movements slow me down in the morning and I gotta make the...




nyskiblog.com


----------



## Low Angle Life

(deleted post) will post forum issue in that thread.


----------



## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> Not in engineering school, and never in my classroom.
> 
> mm


a) mm didn’t give multiple guess tests 
b) mm didn’t have the tricky BS multiple guess questions.
c) mm gave take home tests.
d) a & b
e) all of the above
f) none of the above
g) some of the above
Witchizit? I’m guessing g.


----------



## Milo Maltbie

tirolski said:


> I’m guessing g.


a. You're gonna need to do some work before the final.

mm


----------



## tirolski

Milo Maltbie said:


> a. You're gonna need to do some work before the final.
> 
> mm


So in reality the Best answer is g. 
Ya didn’t have tricky BS multiple guess questions either, just sayin.

The one above is BS multiple guess question.
Do I win a prize?

Tis better to test ones knowledge of a subject using non-multiple choice tests than letting BS enter into the equation.
Good for you as an educator.


----------



## tirolski

G.ski said:


> You mean like Hochul declaring a state of emergency in NY?


Nope.
She’s cheering now. 
I guess that the lodges will have em available for outside consumption if it passes.
Ya can’t make this up.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478796361969586177


----------



## tirolski

Races next week in Austria canceled due to Omicron.
Grass on the course in Zagreb and that race stops.
First world problems continue.


https://www.eurosport.com/alpine-skiing/zagreb/2021-2022/alpine-skiing-mens-slalom-in-zagreb-cancelled-after-just-19-racers-due-to-terrible-conditions_sto8695041/story.shtml


----------



## Andy_ROC

Milo Maltbie said:


> 86 is about 9% , or 8.6% if you are an engineer.
> Enough to cause some problems, or at least major overtime
> 
> mm


Unless of course it's Vail Resorts. Then the lines just grow to EPIC proportions and they can claim this is a "new outdoor experience" they're providing to customers


----------



## MarzNC

From last season but still relevant in some ways even the though state graph is from 2020. This is from the Mt. Hood Meadows website. Idea is that the person on the left is infectious. For 2022 consider that the two people are indoors when near each other.


----------



## Country Gun

Anyone one know what decide this is? Used this after knee replacement surgery. Will help keep you deal with Covid. Never saw any Doctor recommend this.


----------



## Peter Minde

MarzNC said:


> From last season but still relevant in some ways even the though state graph is from 2020. This is from the Mt. Hood Meadows website. Idea is that the person on the left is infectious. For 2022 consider that the two people are indoors when near each other.
> 
> View attachment 11863



Good one. When I was at Mt van Hoevenberg last week, some guests blew off wearing masks in the lodge. Pisses me off because this was one of the few places where one was allowed indoors.


----------



## MarzNC

Peter Minde said:


> Good one. When I was at Mt van Hoevenberg last week, some guests blew off wearing masks in the lodge. Pisses me off because this was one of the few places where one was allowed indoors.


An advantage of wearing a mask indoors is that people who thinks masks are silly tend to stay farther away. 

What's different this season is that some people who don't mask indoors are actually fully vaccinated. That's especially true is someone is over 50. The idea that Omicron is resulting is many more breakthrough cases is a shift in thinking from the situation in the fall when Delta was the dominant variant. Since masking isn't required outdoors, not a surprise that there are people who don't bother to mask indoors.

If I was just going to the restroom at Wolf Creek and there was only 1-2 other women around, I didn't bother to mask up. Wasn't inside there restroom for more than 5 minutes. And not really near anyone else.


----------



## snoloco

I usually try to get in the gondola with people who look like they aren't going to care about masks, and I'm usually quite successful at it. That backfired today as I ended up with a group of 6 that insisted on smoking pot the whole ride. Yuck.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> I usually try to get in the gondola with people who look like they aren't going to care about masks, and I'm usually quite successful at it. That backfired today as I ended up with a group of 6 that insisted on smoking pot the whole ride. Yuck.


I wonder if an N95 will prevent a contact high


----------



## jasonwx

snoloco said:


> I usually try to get in the gondola with people who look like they aren't going to care about masks, and I'm usually quite successful at it. That backfired today as I ended up with a group of 6 that insisted on smoking pot the whole ride. Yuck.


sounds like a good ride
and weed kill the Rona


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> I usually try to get in the gondola with people who look like they aren't going to care about masks, and I'm usually quite successful at it. That backfired today as I ended up with a group of 6 that insisted on smoking pot the whole ride. Yuck.


Didya blow em in or just blow it back out?


----------



## Peter Minde

MarzNC said:


> An advantage of wearing a mask indoors is that people who thinks masks are silly tend to stay farther away.
> 
> What's different this season is that some people who don't mask indoors are actually fully vaccinated. That's especially true is someone is over 50. The idea that Omicron is resulting is many more breakthrough cases is a shift in thinking from the situation in the fall when Delta was the dominant variant. Since masking isn't required outdoors, not a surprise that there are people who don't bother to mask indoors.
> 
> If I was just going to the restroom at Wolf Creek and there was only 1-2 other women around, I didn't bother to mask up. Wasn't inside there restroom for more than 5 minutes. And not really near anyone else.



In Lake Placid, I masked up in the lodge, in the Hannaford when I went to get groceries, everywhere. Oh well.


----------



## adk_denis

MarzNC said:


> From last season but still relevant in some ways even the though state graph is from 2020. This is from the Mt. Hood Meadows website. Idea is that the person on the left is infectious. For 2022 consider that the two people are indoors when near each other.
> 
> View attachment 11863


Same graph does not apply to Omicron with cloth and surgical masks - essentially useless given how fast Omicron spreads


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> I usually try to get in the gondola with people who look like they aren't going to care about masks, and I'm usually quite successful at it. That backfired today as I ended up with a group of 6 that insisted on smoking pot the whole ride. Yuck.


Did you tell them they would be going to hell?


----------



## Sick Bird Rider

Today in Hinterlandia. Signs of the times. Sigh. The numbers refer to doors of the the lodge and there was a friendly dude hanging out under the red tent greeting everyone and handing out masks to those that were lacking. Or slacking.


----------



## snoloco

I was at Loon today which by what is stated on the website has the most stringent covid rules at any eastern resort. In practice, none of it is enforced, outdoors or even indoors for that matter. But I guess trying to board an open air quad with ski school is now a cardinal sin (liftie and instructor yelled at me). Keep in mind this is something they used to ask people to do, so they had an adult on every chair who could reach the safety bar.


----------



## Low Angle Life

snoloco said:


> I was at Loon today which by what is stated on the website has the most stringent covid rules at any eastern resort. In practice, none of it is enforced, outdoors or even indoors for that matter. But I guess trying to board an open air quad with ski school is now a cardinal sin (liftie and instructor yelled at me). Keep in mind this is something they used to ask people to do, so they had an adult on every chair who could reach the safety bar.


Really unfortunate that this whole pandemic thing is preventing you from riding lifts with unaccompanied minors. At least you were spared from those rascals toking up on the lift with you.


----------



## snoloco

I use the singles line, so I'm usually the target of hypochondriacs to block people out of their chair. Here, I'm pointing out that something that used to be common practice is now strictly forbidden. It's confusing because anyone who is in a group lesson is riding a lift with strangers the whole time. But a single rider? Nope that's too risky.


----------



## Warp daddy

snoloco said:


> I use the singles line, so I'm usually the target of hypochondriacs to block people out of their chair. Here, I'm pointing out that something that used to be common practice is now strictly forbidden. It's confusing because anyone who is in a group lesson is riding a lift with strangers the whole time. But a single rider? Nope that's too risky.


Anything else of earth shattering proportions that you wish to cry about ?


----------



## snoloco

This is the thread where I criticize dumb covid rules that I encounter at the various ski resorts I visit. Just because I bring something up here doesn't mean it ruined my whole day. It just means I found it noteworthy enough to mention. I find it disconcerting how there is a mentality that all covid rules are infallible and must never be questioned.


----------



## Warp daddy

Yeah ok ? . H'mm you do know that you Don't have to swing at EVERY pitch ?


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> I use the singles line, so I'm usually the target of hypochondriacs to block people out of their chair. Here, I'm pointing out that something that used to be common practice is now strictly forbidden. It's confusing because anyone who is in a group lesson is riding a lift with strangers the whole time. But a single rider? Nope that's too risky.


I looked at Loons website and it said *singles will not be combined with other groups* and that singles will be loaded together. It also said that twosomes will not be loaded with other twosomes. Okay so maybe the lessons are being inconsistent and that really irritates you? Furthermore you're calling others "blocking singles" hypochondriacs? Maybe those people are just trying to follow the published rules because they have respect for the operators trying to make things work... ever think of that?


----------



## jasonwx

Andy_ROC said:


> I looked at Loons website and it said *singles will not be combined with other groups* and that singles will be loaded together. It also said that twosomes will not be loaded with other twosomes. Okay so maybe the lessons are being inconsistent and that really irritates you? Furthermore you're calling others "blocking singles" hypochondriacs? Maybe those people are just trying to follow the published rules because they have respect for the operators trying to make things work... ever think of that?


lol
they were loading the lifts like it was a normal season..
mask rules where not enforced.. it is what it is..no biggie


----------



## Peter Minde

HWFG. I'm gonna go make popcorn now.


----------



## Andy_ROC

jasonwx said:


> lol
> they were loading the lifts like it was a normal season..
> mask rules where not enforced.. it is what it is..no biggie


So then what's the issue?


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> I looked at Loons website and it said *singles will not be combined with other groups* and that singles will be loaded together. It also said that twosomes will not be loaded with other twosomes.


That is only for the gondola. It says chairs are loaded full. In practice, they ask groups at the gondola if they are ok riding with singles. If a bunch of cabins in a row decline, then they put 4 singles in a cabin. Keep in mind it's only a 4 person gondola.


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> That is only for the gondola. It says chairs are loaded full. In practice, they ask groups at the gondola if they are ok riding with singles. If a bunch of cabins in a row decline, then they put 4 singles in a cabin. Keep in mind it's only a 4 person gondola.


So I'm just trying to understand, whom are you calling the hypochondriacs?


----------



## tirolski

I quit popcorn. Shit gets stuck between the teeth.


----------



## Country Gun

Andy_ROC said:


> So I'm just trying to understand, whom are you calling the hypochondriacs?


Personally, anyone that wears a mask outdoors or in a car riding alone. Study after study, but more importantly, just common sense , masks not needed outdoors or in a car by yourself!


----------



## Andy_ROC

Country Gun said:


> Personally, anyone that wears a mask outdoors or in a car riding alone. Study after study, but more importantly, just common sense , masks not needed outdoors or in a car by yourself!


I'm still not clear on what he was talking about. Gondola, Chair or?

As for those riding in cars I agree. But what I've observed of some people, my wife included, she is so focused on other tasks she will forget to take her mask off after leaving the grocery store and come in the house with it still on.


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> I'm still not clear on what he was talking about. Gondola, Chair or?


At Loon, you're allowed to ask for your own gondola cabin if you are a group, but everyone is expected to ride with other people on chairs unless you're already a group of 4 or are in ski school.


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> At Loon, you're allowed to ask for your own gondola cabin if you are a group, but everyone is expected to ride with other people on chairs unless you're already a group of 4 or are in ski school.


So are you calling those groups that want their own gondola hypochondriacs?


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> So are you calling those groups that want their own gondola hypochondriacs?


I was referring to those who try to block singles on chairlifts as hypochondriacs. I didn't mention the gondola there. Because Loon's gondola is only 4 person, they can get away with allowing groups to get their own cabin and not hurt the capacity too much. With an 8 person gondola, you can't allow this, or you'll end up with the lift running at half capacity. 

In any case, maybe hypochondriac wasn't the right word, but I believe many are vastly overestimating their risk, or unwilling to accept the inevitable that they will be exposed to covid and probably infected with it at some point, whether as a confirmed case or not. For as long as that is true, you're going to have dumb rules that are supposed to make these people feel safer, but probably don't reduce risk of contracting covid at all. You're also going to have testy moments between those who are still very cautious, and those who have already moved on. At Killington on Friday, I had just gotten on the bubble chair, and had someone get angry at me for lowering the bubble on a cold snowy morning and demanded that I put it back up. Others have posted similar stories.


----------



## MarzNC

Learned today that ski patrol at Massanutten are not allowed to ride with a guest. Not even at the opposite ends of a quad. Masking is only required indoors.

Last season ski instructors could ride at the opposite side of a quad. Couldn't ride with a student on the triple. Masking was required outdoors then. Not sure what the rules are this season.


----------



## snoloco

At Killington, the Needles Eye section has a gondola and high speed quad that serve the same terrain. Friday-Sunday they run both, but Monday-Thursday their default is usually to run the gondola. They don't have the business levels midweek to justify running both, but when picking one, they can't seem to make everyone happy. If they run the gondola, then they get complaints from people who aren't comfortable riding a gondola. If they run the quad, they get complaints that the gondola wasn't open, particularly on cold days like today. Today they ran the gondola, and on a locals facebook group I'm in, there are a rash of comments complaining and saying they should've run the chair. The question is which group is larger? Is it those who aren't comfortable riding gondolas, or those who will complain if the gondola is not open?


----------



## tirolski

Will more folks be allowed in skiing's work forces?

SCOTUS just ruled on this:


https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21a244_hgci.pdf


----------



## snoloco

I was at Stratton on Saturday, and I noticed that there weren't as many tables in the lodge Sun Bowl lodge as there were before, presumably for covid reasons. I really don't understand the logic in this. Those who are afraid of being in lodges are going to avoid them no matter what. The rest of us would like a place to sit. I normally have lunch at 11, which isn't the busiest time, and I literally couldn't find a spot inside, and ended up eating outside, despite it being 16 degrees.


----------



## Campgottagopee

OMG, how did you ever survive not being able to find a seat inside?


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> I was at Stratton on Saturday, and I noticed that there weren't as many tables in the lodge Sun Bowl lodge as there were before, presumably for covid reasons. I really don't understand the logic in this. Those who are afraid of being in lodges are going to avoid them no matter what. The rest of us would like a place to sit. I normally have lunch at 11, which isn't the busiest time, and I literally couldn't find a spot inside, and ended up eating outside, despite it being 16 degrees.


Or perhaps they wanted to make the majority of their customers feel more comfortable by spreading them out a bit more than normal. From what you said it might not be what you normally do, but perhaps you could have eaten in a different lodge or at a different time. Don't they have like three different lodges on the mountain?


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> Or perhaps they wanted to make the majority of their customers feel more comfortable by spreading them out a bit more than normal.


I don't think most care. They'd rather be able to find a seat.


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> I don't think most care. They'd rather be able to find a seat.


again it's not all about you.


----------



## D.B. Cooper

MarzNC said:


> Learned today that ski patrol at Massanutten are not allowed to ride with a guest. Not even at the opposite ends of a quad.


Marz, any idea what the % chance of getting it while at opposite ends of a quad, even if stopped? I have to think it's low fractions of 1%.....


----------



## snoloco

Andy_ROC said:


> again it's not all about you.


Do you not understand what the word "most" means you idiot?


----------



## Campgottagopee

snoloco said:


> Do you not understand what the word "most" means you idiot?


Do you know that nobody cares what YOU want means YOU idiot? Nobody gives a rats ass that poor lil snoloco couldn't find a seat when his tummy was grumbling. Grow up.


----------



## Brownski

snoloco said:


> Do you not understand what the word "most" means you idiot?


You see, that’s where you lose me. Make an argument for the sovereignty on the individual or some other bullshit. Name calling is for morons so it ought to be beneath you if you’re as intelligent as you’ve told us you are. Or just drop it, which is what I would do.


----------



## snoloco

Camp, you're a troll and nothing more. You've added nothing to this conversation.

The situation I described is one of many that shows why mitigation measures are pointless. Mask mandates and limits on seating in lodges are there to make those who are concerned about getting covid comfortable inside. In reality, those who are most cautious avoid the lodges anyways, and it just inconveniences everyone else.


----------



## witch hobble

snoloco said:


> Camp, you're a troll and nothing more. You've added nothing to this conversation.
> 
> The situation I described is one of many that shows why mitigation measures are pointless. Mask mandates and limits on seating in lodges are there to make those who are concerned about getting covid comfortable inside. In reality, those who are most cautious avoid the lodges anyways, and it just inconveniences everyone else.


Sno, Camper has been a contributing member of assorted ski forums since you were literally in diapers. There have been loads of trolls that have come and gone (and often they pop back up!) at the various versions of this place over the years. Camp ain’t one of them.


----------



## Ripitz

I get upset too when my mommy forgets to cut the crust off my PB&J


----------



## jmorgan

witch hobble said:


> Sno, Camper has been a contributing member of assorted ski forums since you were literally in diapers. There have been loads of trolls that have come and gone (and often they pop back up!) at the various versions of this place over the years. Camp ain’t one of them.


camper is obviously trolling, which makes him a troll


----------



## witch hobble

jmorgan said:


> camper is obviously trolling, which makes him a troll


Hello. Welcome. Great first post. 

We all troll from time to time……mining for humor mostly. Camp also contributes details of his wife’s work, his frustrations with the changing policies at his own job. And I’m sure he travels in a crowd that contains plenty of covid skeptics. His opinion, perspective, and tactics come with the weight of years of online experience.


----------



## Andy_ROC

So I'll be in Utah later this week and next week and I'll be skiing several different mountains. I have no idea what Utah or the ski resorts out there are doing or not doing pertaining to covid, masking, lodge capacity, table spacing, lift loading etc. But here's a 100% guarantee for you all--- I will not be complaining about covid protocols or lack thereof. 

While I'm a fiercely independent person I also know that when I'm around others that it's not all about me.


----------



## witch hobble

Sno, when you were in the lodge at Stratton, did you make any attempt to identify other covid skeptics (like you do in gondola lines) and ask to use a seat at the end of their table to eat your chicken fingers, french fries, and orange soda?


----------



## Warp daddy

snoloco said:


> I was at Stratton on Saturday, and I noticed that there weren't as many tables in the lodge Sun Bowl lodge as there were before, presumably for covid reasons. I really don't understand the logic in this. Those who are afraid of being in lodges are going to avoid them no matter what. The rest of us would like a place to sit. I normally have lunch at 11, which isn't the busiest time, and I literally couldn't find a spot inside, and ended up eating outside, despite it being 16 degrees.


 Did you have Cheese with that Whine ?


----------



## Campgottagopee

jmorgan said:


> camper is obviously trolling, which makes him a troll


I'll show you a troll, Mr. If that's what you you want. I can do that. Want some?
I have zero tolerance for whinny lil bitches complaining they can't find a seat to eat their lunch, at a ski area, on the weekend, during a pandemic. No shit! Of course you can't, and nobody gives a hoot about it.


----------



## witch hobble

Campgottagopee said:


> I'll show you a troll, Mr. If that's what you you want. I can do that. Want some?


My guess is people who were here during the run up to the 2016 election/politicrap/MC vs peetex/witch and johnny’s meme-a-thon have a different scale of what constitutes “trolling”.


----------



## JTG

jmorgan said:


> camper is obviously trolling, which makes him a troll


Interesting post…

There is internet trolling, and then there is calling someone out on their shit. Granted, neither one is all that productive..but they are different.


----------



## jasonwx

Andy_ROC said:


> So I'll be in Utah later this week and next week and I'll be skiing several different mountains. I have no idea what Utah or the ski resorts out there are doing or not doing pertaining to covid, masking, lodge capacity, table spacing, lift loading etc. But here's a 100% guarantee for you all--- I will not be complaining about covid protocols or lack thereof.
> 
> While I'm a fiercely independent person I also know that when I'm around others that it's not all about me.


My buddy is at the bird. 
Zero masking or anything biz as usual.


----------



## D.B. Cooper




----------



## tirolski

Monday morning popcorn party.
WhineKnot?


----------



## Andy_ROC

jasonwx said:


> My buddy is at the bird.
> Zero masking or anything biz as usual.


Oh no I guess my trip is off! I'll just have to eat the deposit for everything... hopefully I can find a place to sit to eat it. It's so unfair the world is against me.


----------



## Campgottagopee

witch hobble said:


> My guess is people who were here during the run up to the 2016 election/politicrap/MC vs peetex/witch and johnny’s meme-a-thon have a different scale of what constitutes “trolling”.


Those were the dayZ 
I always laugh when someone says "troll". The old RSN forum is where I cut my teeth and got my teeth kicked in. It was brutal fun, but some couldn't take the brutal....lol


----------



## MarzNC

D.B. Cooper said:


> Marz, any idea what the % chance of getting it while at opposite ends of a quad, even if stopped? I have to think it's low fractions of 1%.....


Risk is very low outdoors in general. Especially when on a moving chair for under 10 minutes. The fact that Massanutten ski patrol are being extra careful isn't that surprising because many are older, meaning over 50. There are a lot of volunteer patrollers, especially on weekends.

Last season Massanutten instructors were not allowed to ride with a student on the triple. But it was okay to be on opposite sides of a quad. That was when masking was required on lifts.

Massanutten employees are masking indoors. Totally mixed bag for the customers. Note that at times, half of the people inside the ski rental shop or the lodge are not going to get onto the slopes at all. They are parents/grandparents bringing their kids to ski. While there are fewer people hanging out at a table all day, there are still people who are around for quite a few hours. Given the market for Mnut, my guess is that over 90% are fully vaccinated. Especially during a holiday weekend. Harder to say about locals.


----------



## MarzNC

At Wolf Creek in December I was impressed that the locals were being very good about masking up in the lodge on the main level with the cafeteria and bar. Folks in Colorado are quite aware that any outbreak tied to a ski resort could mean the shut down of inside dining. Wolf Creek never opened any inside dining last season. While there is plenty of outdoor seating that is great when the sun is out, it can be pretty cold and windy at other times. It was in the teens for more than one day when I was there for a week mid-Dec with my ski buddies.

Not that much masking for a quick stop in the larger restrooms. I didn't bother if there was only 1-2 other people who were clearly not going to hang around.


----------



## MarzNC

There was very little masking indoors at Timberline in WV. Meaning for staff or customers. Most of the people masking were seniors. I was there midweek so the place was quite empty in any case.


----------



## Andy_ROC

snoloco said:


> Do you not understand what the word "most" means you idiot?


Did you conduct a survey to come to this conclusion? Even pre-pandemic I suspect most people like a bit more room than less.


----------



## snoloco

MarzNC said:


> Folks in Colorado are quite aware that any outbreak tied to a ski resort could mean the shut down of inside dining.


Colorado will not shut down again.



Andy_ROC said:


> Even pre-pandemic I suspect most people like a bit more room than less.


That is assuming you can find any room.


----------



## Warp daddy

Obviously we have a case here of arrested development , a narcissistic lil boy trying to assert his " vast " knowledge among the "cognoscenti " ...its an age old story full of sound and fury signifyning nothing "

To quote The Bard ?


----------



## MarzNC

snoloco said:


> Colorado will not shut down again.


No American state will shut down ski resorts again. But a resort may well decide to close indoor dining for a short period if they think that their employees are at risk because of increase exposure to customers who are indoors with them. Just as there are restaurants all over the country that have had to close for a short time because they were short staffed or just needed a break.

I skied in the west last season per usual, meaning I was comfortable in airports and on full planes. I also skied in the southeast. My total for the season was about 50 days at about a dozen different ski areas/resorts. I have several few friends (not from this forum) who mostly ski in the the northeast. What happened for the ski industry in NY and New England was different from those regions in 2020-21.

Europe is another story completely. As was Australia and New Zealand during their 2021 season. But I won't go into that around here.


----------



## Campgottagopee

witch hobble said:


> And I’m sure he travels in a crowd that contains plenty of covid skeptics


Early on, as in when we first shutdown, this would ring true.

What changed our crews POV were 2 things. First, one of us was hospitalized with COVID for 11 days, 7 days in ICU, and he'll tell you he was fighting for his life. He literally thought he was going to die. He's in his mid 50's and other than Peter, I'd put his fitness level up against anyone on here. Second, would be a single conversation with my wife. She'll tell you real quick like where the bear shits in the woods and won't mince any words in doing so. Those experiences brought reality into play real quick.


----------



## witch hobble

Campgottagopee said:


> Early on, as in when we first shutdown, this would ring true.
> 
> What changed our crews POV were 2 things. First, one of us was hospitalized with COVID for 11 days, 7 days in ICU, and he'll tell you he was fighting for his life. He literally thought he was going to die. He's in his mid 50's and other than Peter, I'd put his fitness level up against anyone on here. Second, would be a single conversation with my wife. She'll tell you real quick like where the bear shits in the woods and won't mince any words in doing so. Those experiences brought reality into play real quick.


I apologize for profiling based on my assumption of the worldview of the CNY hunting/snowmo crowd.


----------



## Campgottagopee

witch hobble said:


> I apologize for profiling based on my assumption of the worldview of the CNY hunting/snowmo crowd.


Nah, other than COVID I'm sure you're spot on ?


----------



## Harvey

I was able to read this, I guess it's my one free article. Comments are good too.









For Skiers, a Winter of Discontent


With resorts having trouble hiring and employees calling out sick, visitors have been frustrated by idled lifts, limited services and closed terrain. Some of the biggest complaints have come from Epic Pass holders.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Low Angle Life

Today at HUNTAH I saw some of the most arbitrary, non-enforced covid measures in place that I've seen. Each entrance to the dining areas of the lodge had a security guards posted at them with open gates and signs that said "proof of vaccine required to enter". No one was actually required to show proof of vaccine and multiple people walked right past security without masks (there were signs that masks were required as well). One younger girl sitting within 10 feet of the front entrance security was openly vaping in the lodge in front of him... The strangest bit was tables in the dining room fenced off with a gate entrance and HUNTAH staff posted up so you could "reserve" a table. There was no shortage of empty tables but regardless you had to walk up to the person at the gate, say you wanted to reserve a table, they took your name and phone number and assigned you a numbered table.

Outside of the lodge everything was business as usual but it was also empty, these measures all seemed like a stark contrast from Belle. Do any Epic pass holders know if this just standard operating procedure for Vail?


----------



## MarzNC

Low Angle Life said:


> Outside of the lodge everything was business as usual but it was also empty, these measures all seemed like a stark contrast from Belle. Do any Epic pass holders know if this just standard operating procedure for Vail?


A friend who is more or less local to Tahoe has an Epic Tahoe senior pass. There is checking for vaccination status for indoor dining at Northstar and Heavenly from what she's said. She was there before the first big storm that dropped snow measured in feet.


----------



## snoloco

Masks are no longer required at Killington or Pico, effective today. They cited guidance from the Vermont Department of Health saying that the virus should be treated as endemic in making this decision.


----------



## tirolski

snoloco said:


> Masks are no longer required at Killington or Pico, effective today. They cited guidance from the Vermont Department of Health saying that the virus should be treated as endemic in making this decision.



_"Masks are required to ride resort shuttles and The Bus, regardless of vaccination status, per federal mandate."_


----------



## Benny Profane

snoloco said:


> Masks are no longer required at Killington or Pico, effective today. They cited guidance from the Vermont Department of Health saying that the virus should be treated as endemic in making this decision.



I was thinking that, after being in two very crowded lodges and bars last Friday, (Bear and K1), that, if I didn't get sick and die from that, I'm cool, along with the rest of the humans in there. About as super spreader as spaces can be. This is pretty much over.


----------



## Harvey

Benny Profane said:


> I was thinking that, after being in two very crowded lodges and bars last Friday, (Bear and K1), that, if I didn't get sick and die from that, I'm cool, along with the rest of the humans in there. About as super spreader as spaces can be. This is pretty much over.


I had this same thought after a gymnastics meet in December. Could be temporary, or not? Will the next variant be mild for the vaxxed? I guess we will see.


----------



## dubstar

"This is pretty much over."

After two years of in-person teaching, I got it in the elementary school I work in right before Christmas break. Double vaccinated, no booster shot, always wear a mask, and I eat lunch in my car. Unfortunately mask enforcement and other COVID protocols have not been enforced much lately due to the influence of certain certain loud and angry parents who have co-opted BOE meetings and administrative decisions. No surprise my number eventually came up, as numbers have been high across our district. 

It was a brutal 10-12 day run and I unfortunately infected my wife, who continues to suffer long-haul symptoms. I lost five pounds which I can't gain back and both of us have difficulty sleeping now. Definitely not Omicron, but more likely Delta or a combination of the two, which our doctor confirmed. I'm back snowboarding and doing well this season, but don't feel ready to get back into the water and I always surf through the winter no matter how cold it gets. 

We currently have a co-worker who has been out for two weeks and still hasn't recovered. She is unvaccinated and always wore a mask at work (as required), but for some reason decided to go mask free for the entire day a few weeks ago when that idiot Blakeman forced Nassau County schools to temporarily stop enforcing the state mandate for a day while local and state officials scrambled to deal with the legality of his announcement (masks returned the next day). Apparently she now has to test negative before returning to work due to her unvaccinated status, which could take up to six weeks regardless of how she feels. 

So anyway, the pandemic may appear to be over and numbers are certainly lower, but I'd still be wary of what government and media are telling us and that goes for both sides of the political spectrum. Especially if you find yourself in high-density population areas.


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## tirolski

dubstar said:


> So anyway, the pandemic may appear to be over and numbers are certainly lower, but I'd still be wary of what government and media are telling us and that goes for both sides of the political spectrum.


I trust my dog. 

Hope you and yer wife get to feeling better ASAP.
Long haulers is tough.


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## Benny Profane

dubstar said:


> "This is pretty much over."
> 
> After two years of in-person teaching, I got it in the elementary school I work in right before Christmas break. Double vaccinated, no booster shot, always wear a mask, and I eat lunch in my car. Unfortunately mask enforcement and other COVID protocols have not been enforced much lately due to the influence of certain certain loud and angry parents who have co-opted BOE meetings and administrative decisions. No surprise my number eventually came up, as numbers have been high across our district.
> 
> It was a brutal 10-12 day run and I unfortunately infected my wife, who continues to suffer long-haul symptoms. I lost five pounds which I can't gain back and both of us have difficulty sleeping now. Definitely not Omicron, but more likely Delta or a combination of the two, which our doctor confirmed. I'm back snowboarding and doing well this season, but don't feel ready to get back into the water and I always surf through the winter no matter how cold it gets.
> 
> We currently have a co-worker who has been out for two weeks and still hasn't recovered. She is unvaccinated and always wore a mask at work (as required), but for some reason decided to go mask free for the entire day a few weeks ago when that idiot Blakeman forced Nassau County schools to temporarily stop enforcing the state mandate for a day while local and state officials scrambled to deal with the legality of his announcement (masks returned the next day). Apparently she now has to test negative before returning to work due to her unvaccinated status, which could take up to six weeks regardless of how she feels.
> 
> So anyway, the pandemic may appear to be over and numbers are certainly lower, but I'd still be wary of what government and media are telling us and that goes for both sides of the political spectrum. Especially if you find yourself in high-density population areas.


I am done listening to stories about how the unvaccinated are getting sick, therefore, not over. Enough. These shots are a modern medical miracle. If you are over 50, obese, or, even healthy, which most aren't, and still refuse a shot, sorry about your suicidal tendencies.

We really have to consider all the emotional damage that has occured over the last few years. It is not healthy to hide from others out of fear. It is especially unhealthy for children to be subjected to all this, and essentially lose a few years of maturing around others, especially since they are hardly as vulnerable as the Boomers running the show.


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## Benny Profane

Harvey said:


> I had this same thought after a gymnastics meet in December. Could be temporary, or not? Will the next variant be mild for the vaxxed? I guess we will see.


I can absolutely guarantee that there will be another pandemic in the world in the next fifty years. History is littered with them. Viruses exist everywhere, and they are always mutating. Life depends on them. I can also garauntee that we have learned nothing from this present pandemic, a relatively mild one, compared to the historical record, except how to make vaccines really fast for this type of virus. Thank God for that.


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## Harvey

I think dub said he was vaxxed.

When I got covid (prevax) I lost 20 lbs and only gained 10 back. My wife says I look different, basically less muscle.

Regarding long covid, I felt like I had strong lingering effects for three months. Unlike @dubstar I had a hard time staying awake, and I would take naps at my desk. And I couldn't concentrate. It got better, good luck to you and your wife man.


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## Benny Profane

He uses an unvaxxed co worker as another example. 

Hey Harv, why aren't you skiing?


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## dubstar

"I am done listening to stories about how the unvaccinated are getting sick, therefore, not over. Enough. These shots are a modern medical miracle. If you are over 50, obese, or, even healthy, which most aren't, and still refuse a shot, sorry about your suicidal tendencies."

Yes, maybe you should read a little bit more carefully. There are are also legitimate reasons why people avoid vaccines. My wife had a significant reaction to the second shot. She woke up in the middle of the night and thought she was having a heart attack, describing it as feeling as though an elephant was sitting on her chest. She said she was never more frightened in her life and she's been through a lot. Confirmed by two cardiologists as most likely vaccine-induced myocarditis. There is no doubt vaccines are important and have been throughout modern history. But it is also clear that these vaccines were rushed through (by necessity) and that a lot of misinformation was fed to the public regarding their efficacy. Not necessarily intentionally, but simply because there is still much to learn about how COVID behaves. 

By the way, we are both in relatively good health. I'm 50 and recently snowshoed to the top of the West Peak at Windham with my board strapped to my pack followed by a descent that included an untracked line through the woods left untouched from the previous day's snowfall. Eat well, minimal alcohol, try to get enough sleep, no indoor eating or bar visits. Double masks and safety glasses at work with as much time spent near an open window as possible. So no suicidal tendencies here. 

This notion that masks are some form of child abuse is ridiculous and primarily driven by angry parents with an agenda. Spend some time in a school and you'll see how much time students spend mask free. Also take a look around the world and see what children in other countries are faced with. It really says something about this country and our society if wearing a mask is considered so damaging to children.
​


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## Harvey

Benny Profane said:


> Hey Harv, why aren't you skiing?


Maybe not a great call, but I took this weekend off. Hoping to make up for it late in the month. We'll see if the weather cooperates.


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## Harvey

I'm to blame here too, but please keep this thread on covid and skiing.


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## JTG

Harvey said:


> Maybe not a great call, but I took this weekend off. Hoping to make up for it late in the month. We'll see if the weather cooperates.


Looks like Thursday is a 50 degree gully washer all the way up to the Canadian border, with teens on Friday. Ugghhh. Next week/weekend is looking rough.


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## tirolski

Get at it while ya can. Snow’s still there waiting.
Might not be powder but ya can still ski on it.
Folks had fun yesterday. 
Could be early corn.
Folks blew a lot of snow when it was subzero.


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## JTG

Yesterday and today were great, spring skiing in Feb! I’m surprised that Harvey could have chosen so unwisely….


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## Yukon Cornelius

I will say that it has been very refreshing to have conversations with, see people's faces, etc. without a mask. I may be a grouchy dude that doesn't love crowds, but we are all social creatures at heart and on some biological level the "no mask thing" makes me happy (and maybe a little nervous, but not outside when skiing).


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## Harvey

JTG said:


> Yesterday and today were great, spring skiing in Feb! I’m surprised that Harvey could have chosen so unwisely….



Glad you had a great day. Funny, nothing surprises me about you, anymore.


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## raisingarizona

Yukon Cornelius said:


> I will say that it has been very refreshing to have conversations with, see people's faces, etc. without a mask. I may be a grouchy dude that doesn't love crowds, but we are all social creatures at heart and on some biological level the "no mask thing" makes me happy (and maybe a little nervous, but not outside when skiing).


I got the vid from a bud while skiing two weeks ago. We were outside all day. I didn’t get very sick but I still tested positive yesterday, 12 days later. It’s not gonna kill me but it sure is annoying.


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## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> I got the vid from a bud while skiing two weeks ago. We were outside all day. I didn’t get very sick but I still tested positive yesterday, 12 days later. It’s not gonna kill me but it sure is annoying.


How does it compare to the first time? Like if the first time was a 9 out of ten...? Feel better man.

On another related? topic... seeing lots of demand for lessons for prez week that looks like it won't be met.


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## raisingarizona

Harvey said:


> How does it compare to the first time? Like if the first time was a 9 out of ten...? Feel better man.
> 
> On another related? topic... seeing lots of demand for lessons for prez week that looks like it won't be met.


Thanks. 

Dude, first time was an 11. It was trying to kill me for sure and I was feeling it for 3 or 4 months after. This time would be a 1 or 2. It was like a mild cold that lasted 4 solid days. I feel fine now.


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## tirolski

raisingarizona said:


> I got the vid from a bud while skiing two weeks ago. We were outside all day. I didn’t get very sick but I still tested positive yesterday, 12 days later. It’s not gonna kill me but it sure is annoying.


Did ya eat or smoke the bud? How it effects ya can be different, allegedly.
Glad yer better now.


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## JTG

Harvey said:


> Glad you had a great day. Funny, nothing surprises me about you, anymore.


Save the explanation and lighten up…..I was kidding. The guy who loads up on yoga to return from an injury sooner than he probably should have, the same guy who follows the weather more than anyone…..skips a good couple of days before a bad week. Perfectly reasonable decision, but I figured it was worth a little light hearted ribbing, especially since you seemed to sense it maybe wasn’t you best skiing decision, although it may have been the best decision for your body. Whatever.

I didn’t realize losing your sense of humor was a long haul COVID symptom….or maybe I should have thrown in a few ?

Enjoy the rest of the season folks. You too Harvey! See ya ‘round.


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## raisingarizona

tirolski said:


> Did ya eat or smoke the bud? How it effects ya can be different, allegedly.
> Glad yer better now.


I’ve only been eating weed lately, except for two nights ago I rolled up a joint of some extra delicious citrus nugs. Mmm, yummy.


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## Harvey

raisingarizona said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Dude, first time was an 11. It was trying to kill me for sure and I was feeling it for 3 or 4 months after. This time would be a 1 or 2. It was like a mild cold that lasted 4 solid days. I feel fine now.


Yeah i was saving 10 for success in the "kill me" part. That's where i was.

I think i had omi but who knows. Hoping i did.


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## MarzNC

As for masking at Taos Ski Valley, still very much required indoors all over New Mexico. Locals in the Taos are are very compliant. They know that medical facilities are limited in the small town, and any big outbreak could further damage a fragile economy that's very dependent on tourism during all seasons.

The TSV resort is requiring proof of vaccination for indoor dining. But the independently owned restaurants at the main base only require masking.

There were still a few people who seemed to be masking on lifts. Easier to tell on warm sunny days. For Lift 1 when the Singles line had people, lifties were asking other folks if they were okay sharing with strangers before adding a single or two.

I had time to wander around the town center yesterday, Saturday, before driving to Albuquerque (stayed overnight). There were noticeably more tourists around than March 2021. Was certainly a lot easier to find open restaurants for dinner. But staffing issues mean that Mon, Tue, Wed, and sometimes even Thu nights it pays to call ahead to make sure a restaurant is actually open. Meaning even a posted schedule says the place is supposed to be open that night of the week.


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## MarzNC

In another thread @Warp daddy asked about Tenney in NH. It was completely closed in 2020-21 and didn't open for 2021-22 either. Didn't make sense during the pandemic.

But I wouldn't count it out forever just yet. Michael Bouchard turned into a pretty competent skier so his interest in having a ski hill for the community isn't just a pipe dream as it was when he and his partners bought the land for other reasons. I have no doubt the chair lifts could pass inspection with much less effort than it took before. People have been skinning up for turns, as they were allowed to do after the current ownership took over.

I followed the development of Tenney pretty closely. Skied there a couple of times when I was in Boston for other reasons, including once after a powder storm. Chatted with Michael in the fall before it re-opened.


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## Warp daddy

MarzNC said:


> In another thread @Warp daddy asked about Tenney in NH. It was completely closed in 2020-21 and didn't open for 2021-22 either. Didn't make sense during the pandemic.
> 
> But I wouldn't count it out forever just yet. Michael Bouchard turned into a pretty competent skier so his interest in having a ski hill for the community isn't just a pipe dream as it was when he and his partners bought the land for other reasons. I have no doubt the chair lifts could pass inspection with much less effort than it took before. People have been skinning up for turns, as they were allowed to do after the current ownership took over.
> 
> I followed the development of Tenney pretty closely. Skied there a couple of times when I was in Boston for other reasons, including once after a powder storm. Chatted with Michael in the fall before it re-opened.


 

TY MArz ! I enjoyed skiing both and Gunstock and Attitash on my last swing thru NH . 

10E was kind of a funky place but hey any day on the hill is a good day ! What I specifically remember is the slooooowest ride to the summit i think ive ever been on, obut the skiing was fine and the price was right 😎

Thanks again


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## tirolski

_"Frank said the Front Gate project is going to use *lessons learned during the COVID-19 pandemic* *regarding what owners want*.
The units will all have *offices or dens for remote workers*. Owners who fill up their units while visiting will also be able to reserve space in an *office in each building.*
Owners will have access to new trails to the property’s hillsides.
While the units are intended for owner use, there will be a front desk in each building and a rental program.
Amenities will also include *hot tubs, a water slide and golf simulators. An arcade* will help occupy kids who don’t want to watch their parents working out their swings."
"“The market reaction has been spectacular,” Blake said. That interest has come from the *Vail Valley’s usual markets, including Texas and Florida, with a lot of interest from Front Range buyers*."_
*Emphasis *added.
_








Avon building site to see new project


There’s a new idea, and a new developer, for an Avon parcel that stalled a few years ago.




www.vaildaily.com




_


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## tirolski

Omicron Surge Dampened Destination Visits in January


SAM Magazine—Winter Park, Colo., Feb. 15, 2022—Momentum from the red-hot holiday season turned cool in early January as a surge in new cases of the Omicron




www.saminfo.com


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## MarzNC

tirolski said:


> Omicron Surge Dampened Destination Visits in January
> 
> 
> SAM Magazine—Winter Park, Colo., Feb. 15, 2022—Momentum from the red-hot holiday season turned cool in early January as a surge in new cases of the Omicron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saminfo.com


Probably not all due to Omicron in Jan 2022. Several places didn't get any snow after early January. I know of people who cancelled trips to Utah, Tahoe, and Taos because of the low snow conditions. The fewer flight options on Southwest to the Rockies from the east made it that much easier to decide to cancel or postpone ski trips.


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## tirolski

Downhill ski business booming in Michigan | Great Lakes Echo


Last year, the U.S. ski industry had its fifth-busiest season and interest in the slopes shows no signs of slowing down in Michigan for the 2021-22 season.




greatlakesecho.org


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## MiSkier

tirolski said:


> Downhill ski business booming in Michigan | Great Lakes Echo
> 
> 
> Last year, the U.S. ski industry had its fifth-busiest season and interest in the slopes shows no signs of slowing down in Michigan for the 2021-22 season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greatlakesecho.org


I can tell you it's still busy in Michigan, The metro Detroit hills are still selling out of rental equipment on weekends. On one hand it's good to see them doing well, on the other hand i hate the long lift lines.


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## MarzNC

Except for Wolf Ridge, all the ski areas/resorts in the southeast (TN, NC, VA, WV) are having a good season. Wolf Ridge never invested properly in snowmaking in the last decade or two. The others have had more than enough cold snaps to have built up a deep enough base to withstand the expected warm spells. Quite a few have limited ticket sales and been sold out every weekend since MLK weekend.

Massanutten had to limit resort rentals because the new waiting approach led to long waits over MLK weekend. That was partially because of the changes due to moving to a system where every tech needed to have a computer screen. Combined with staffing issues at times, it wasn't a good situation in January on weekends. Adjustments to the rental process were needed and implemented before Pres. Day weekend.


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## MarzNC

There were few people masked indoors at the ski areas I was at last week (western MA, West Mountain, Plattekill, Montage). At Berkshire East, there were still signs up that masking was required in the lodges but when the lodge was relatively empty in the afternoon few people were bothering. The early birds who arrived before the lifts opened did mask in the lodge. The signs said it was a local town rule. There were other places in the region where most, if not all, signs related to masking had been taken down at gas stations. Even Sheetz in PA is no longer requiring employees to be masked. So it depends on local mask rules at this point.

Sharing lifts with strangers was back to pre-pandemic norms.


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## MiSkier

MarzNC said:


> There were few people masked indoors at the ski areas I was at last week (western MA, West Mountain, Plattekill, Montage). At Berkshire East, there were still signs up that masking was required in the lodges but when the lodge was relatively empty in the afternoon few people were bothering. The early birds who arrived before the lifts opened did mask in the lodge. The signs said it was a local town rule. There were other places in the region where most, if not all, signs related to masking had been taken down at gas stations. Even Sheetz in PA is no longer requiring employees to be masked. So it depends on local mask rules at this point.
> 
> Sharing lifts with strangers was back to pre-pandemic norms.


Caberfae still asks if you are ok with going with a person not in your group on the lift. I would say 99.9% of the time no one has an issue


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## tirolski

tirolski said:


> Went to the Ski Company today in the Cuse while runnin errands. Talked with Jimmy, a long time ski team coach for Colgate. He fixed my boots a couple years ago as I had wore too thick socks at times and screwed the liner a bit and he had fixed it with some super duct tape to allow me to get em on and off with correct socks without doing further damage. He said he hasn’t seen the supply chain inventory for ski goods this bad in his life. They appeared to have lots of skis and clothes though.
> Thought about some new boots but the ones I have work great but the back of one liner is still a tad beat up.
> Decided to keep runnin ‘em till they shit the bed.
> ...Let it snow.


Monday the tape tore and some foam went to the heal on the left liner.
Figured I ski it with the “mini heal lift” in place. and see how it felt.
Front-of-the-boot was in effect but more for the left one.
Didn’t bother me at all but knew something was there in the heel.
Bought some new tape today and gonna try to patch it back up.
They’re Rossi’s 80 synergy 2 & like an old friend.

Anybody know what the boot and/or liner market is like these daze?


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## tirolski

tirolski said:


> Monday the tape tore and some foam went to the heal on the left liner.
> Figured I ski it with the “mini heal lift” in place. and see how it felt.
> Front-of-the-boot was in effect but more for the left one.
> Didn’t bother me at all but knew something was there in the heel.
> Bought some new tape today and gonna try to patch it back up.
> They’re Rossi’s 80 synergy 2 & like an old friend.
> 
> Anybody know what the boot and/or liner market is like these daze?


No replies on status the new boot/liner market ...
The gorilla tape matched what Jimmy installed earlier and they skied and felt as good as new.
Also bought some more slippery carpet tape so I’m ready for gravity research testing of that stuff if it rips again.


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## Warp daddy

Time for new boots, Tski 🤓


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## tirolski

Warp daddy said:


> Time for new boots, Tski 🤓


Yup, but wear?
I guess I can call around.
I love those boots.
A ski buddy has had his for decades. He riptz too but not his liners yet.


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## Tjf1967

Intuition liners work the nuts. They are comfortable, warm, and your can mold them.


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## Sbob

tirolski said:


> Yup, but wear?
> I guess I can call around.
> I love those boots.
> A ski buddy has had his for decades. He riptz too but not his liners yet.


I’ve had great luck buying used boots on ebay. My feet are pretty much normal and don’t require custom fitting . I’m a Dallbello fan


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## Andy_ROC

Sorry if I'm totally naive but why not just buy a new pair with heat moldable shells and liners? I got those and never looked back. Also got a pair for my wife and she's totally happy and doesn't complain about boot comfort anymore. Probably no more than $400 or less all in.

Edit : pricing during sales. Bought both of ours from EVO after carefully reading the resources on their site about fit, including calf volume (I have huge calves) mondo size etc.


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## tirolski

When’d y'all get ‘em? 
Recently?


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## JTG

Andy_ROC said:


> Sorry if I'm totally naive but why not just buy a new pair with heat moldable shells and liners?


Don’t forget custom footbeds to go with, they make a huge difference. Can be expensive, but worth it!


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## tirolski

Warp daddy said:


> Time for new boots, Tski 🤓


Thinking of touring boots whenever I get new ones.
I love to walk too.


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## tirolski

Aspen Skiing Co. drops vaccine requirement for workers, customers of indoor facilities


Aspen Skiing Co. is easing COVID policies for workers and customers.




www.postindependent.com


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## tirolski

Skiing in Maine: Some changes prompted by pandemic might be worth keeping


Some new practices are welcomed, but others – many diminishing the in-person contact on the slopes – are gladly only temporary.




www.pressherald.com


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## tirolski

Some northern Italians did a research review on the topic and had it published it a year ago.








COVID-19 and Recreational Skiing: Results of a Rapid Systematic Review and Possible Preventive Measures


COVID-19 is a novel infectious disease which has rapidly spread around the globe, disrupting several aspects of public life over the past year. After numerous infection clusters emerged among travelers hosted in ski resorts in early 2020, several European ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov




_As highlighted by this rapid systematic review, none of the infected cases in ski areas directly developed in relation to the sport activity itself._


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## tirolski

New record skier visits.


https://nsaa.org/webdocs/media_public/press/2021-22/2022_May_SkierVisits.pdf


----------

