Following are updated numbers for ORDA skier visits and revenue for New York’s state-owned and operated ski areas as reported by the Olympic Regional Development Authority in the most recent annual report.
For the first time in the 2013 annual report, numbers for Belleayre Ski Center were included.
As of the 2010 – 2011 season ORDA had not reported skier visits for Gore Mountain. In the 2018 report, there was back data on skier visits for Gore dating back to 2013-2014, so a data gap remains for the two previous years. In addition Whiteface revenue numbers were revised upward by over 20%.
Whiteface
| Season | Skier Visits | Revenue |
| 2004 – 2005 | 181,759 | $7,205,841 |
| 2005 – 2006 | 180,440 | $7,836,129 |
| 2006 – 2007 | 166,145 | $8,052,883 |
| 2007 – 2008 | 214,108 | $10,469,789 |
| 2008 – 2009 | 185,586 | $9,060,532 |
| 2009 – 2010 | 188,784 | $9,367,859 |
| 2010 – 2011 | 209,214 | $10,493,708 |
| 2011 – 2012 | 164,952 | $9,096,676 |
| 2012 – 2013 | 192,427 | $8,549,601 |
| 2013 – 2014 | 214,459 | $11,149,635 |
| 2014 – 2015* | 216,219 | $10,778,834 |
| 2015 – 2016* | 167,501 | $9,076,229 |
| 2016 – 2017* | 201,206 | $10,664,262 |
| 2017 – 2018 | 214,407 | $11,267,314 |
| 2018 – 2019 | 202,441 | $12,401,718 |
| 2019 – 2020** | 184,847 | (not reported) |
| 2020 – 2021 † | 105,547 | (not reported) |
| 2021 – 2022 † | 201,999 | (not reported) |
Gore Mountain
| Season | Skier Visits | Revenue |
| 2004 – 2005 | 212,703 | $6,625,483 |
| 2005 – 2006 | 207,299 | $6,524,448 |
| 2006 – 2007 | 209,353 | $6,441,723 |
| 2007 – 2008 | 238,467 | $8,103,326 |
| 2008 – 2009 | 230,791 | $8,484,833 |
| 2009 – 2010 | 218,166 | $8,081,744 |
| 2010 – 2011 | 217,032 | $8,171,714 |
| 2011 – 2012 | (not reported) | $7,085,546 |
| 2012 – 2013 | (not reported) | $8,910,472 |
| 2013 – 2014 | 241,452 | $9,637,100 |
| 2014 – 2015 | 237,032 | $10,039,903 |
| 2015 – 2016 | 160,484 | $6,308,622 |
| 2016 – 2017 | 211,487 | $8,788,551 |
| 2017 – 2018 | 212,387 | $9,040,482 |
| 2018 – 2019 | 213,107 | $10,012,325 |
| 2019 – 2020** | 197,343 | $10,563,003 |
| 2020 – 2021 † | 216,745 | (not reported) |
| 2021 – 2022 † | 216,672 | (not reported) |
Belleayre Ski Center
| Season | Skier Visits | Revenue |
| 2006 – 2007 | 146,560 | $4,382,152 |
| 2007 – 2008 | 181,509 | $5,975,363 |
| 2008 – 2009 | 154,726 | $5,604,865 |
| 2009 – 2010 | 169,163 | $5,392,668 |
| 2010 – 2011 | 167,036 | $5,601,288 |
| 2011 – 2012 | 87,341 | $3,623,381 |
| 2012 – 2013 | 118,359 | $5,298,259 |
| 2013 – 2014 | 131,257 | $4,939,402 |
| 2014 – 2015 | 133,911 | $5,540,586 |
| 2015 – 2016 | 72,250 | $3,571,395 |
| 2016 – 2017 | 124,345 | $5,318,604 |
| 2017 – 2018 | 136,667 | $6,017,594 |
| 2018 – 2019 | 148,888 | $7,252,090 |
| 2019 – 2020** | 125,652 | (not reported) |
| 2020 – 2021 † | 160,988 | (not reported) |
| 2021 – 2022 † | 162,258 | (not reported) |
Venue Revenue
| Year | Revenue |
| 2018 | $34,400,000 |
| 2019 | $38,100,000 |
| 2020 | $36,300,000 |
| 2021 | $37,700,000 |
| 2022 | $47,200,000 |
Source: ORDA Annual Reports
*Revenue revised up in 2018 by approximately 20%
** No winter revenue numbers reported in 19/20. Gore listed as “up 5.5%”, Whiteface listed as “up”
† As of the 20/21 Report, ski area revenue reports are no longer included. Total venue revenue has been reported back to 2018.
At this time, Gore visit numbers include an estimate of 15 visits per pass holder. Whiteface visits do not include visits by Gore passholders.
I’m guessing revenue is gross profit? Does the state publish the complete financial statement?
As we discussed with Tony Lanza (and confirmed by Harv’s footnote), those skier visit numbers are guestimates. Aren’t revenue and gross profits completely different things? Why are WF’s revenues 15-20% more than Gore’s given the ski-day stats?
What is revenue?? According to those numbers it is not gross sales..
Those figures are gross revenues. Profits are what’s left after you subtract expenses. The large difference in revenue per skier visit ($37 for Gore, $49 for WF) probably reflects a different mix of full retail skiers vs discounted tickets vs season passholder visits at each mountain, and probably differences in the estimates / assumptions that go into each, for example that 15 visits per passholder assumption at Gore.
While this information is interesting, net profit figures would be more useful. I beleive both Gore and Whiteface generate annual profits of around $1 million each. And of course the economic impact to the region from the operation of the ski centers is very significant.
From what I’ve seen operating profit is more like $500k per mountain. I’d guess Gore might have a larger percentage of passholders than Whiteface, which could lower the revenue per visit.
And with a lot of dual passholders living in the capital district, it would make sense that those passholders would hit Gore more. It’s closer.
The last factor could be Whiteface’s status as a destination resort. With everything Lake Placid has to offer, and the mountain’s reputation as being one of the most challenging hills in the east, I wouldn’t be surprised if more people take full vacations at WF. Those multi-day tickets are cheaper than single day tix, but more per day than what passholders pay.
I think the Whiteface numbers include summer revenues, and I would think it grosses more in the summer than Gore.
Harv, you may want to put in a footnote that several of these comments are 2 years old.
That said, it’s also worth noting that Whiteface skiiers stay longer. I am sure the average ski “vacation” to Whiteface is 2 – 3 days, with lodging because it’s too far to day trip from the Capitol District.
At Gore, the typical “vacation” is one day. Either Saturday or Sunday. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but Gore is still primarily a day area for Albany, much like Belleayre is a day area for Metro NYC.
As a point of clarification, the reason that the 2010-2011 Gore numbers have an asterisk(*) – in last year’s ORDA annual report Gore skier visits also were not reported and revenue numbers where shown on a graph that wasn’t easy to determine exact numbers. The reason those numbers are estimates – Ted Blazer was speaking at a press conference and gave percent changes for Gore on both skier visits and revenue that we applied to the previous years numbers.
@Kid – I’ll let your comment (and the dates next to comments) stand as notification that this post is historical and updated yearly. We’ll probably have to do something different next year anyway with the inclusion of Belleayre.
So Belleayre made the same amount of money last year as in 10-11 with 60 percent of the skiers? Wow.
Curious as to why the 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 budgets aren’t available on ORDA’s web site.
Why are there no gore numbers?
Gore is great.
ML those are revenue numbers not how much was made. Bell does not make anything. Breakeven is the best it can hope for. Big percentage of group biz also hurts the bottom line. We never get to see a bottom line. I would think that someone could petition via freedom of information act to get real numbers for profit and loss in Bell’s case.
Ausie, glad you’re back.
Can’t we agree that none of these mountains “make” money? But, I am still not sure why you believe that Belle would have so much more trouble than everyone else.
I’m just curious why Gore’s skier visits can’t be included in the chart.
But, if you really want to argue we should start a new thread.
p.s. Gore is better than Whiteface.
None of you people who downgrade really enjoy the beauty and the freedom of skiing that Belleayre gives us. The people are great and the conditions are always good because they groom so well. Do us all a favor and stay where you r and not downgrade a most peaceful, glorious mountain. If we close Belleayre you and your children will deal with another SAME mountain somewhere, unlike a distinctly wonderful place called BELLEAYRE. I drive from Newport R.I.!
Pretty lame that Gore doesn’t report accurate skier visits let alone any numbers at all. Given the scanner system, they could very easily report skier visits. What are they hiding? The lack of skier visit reporting sticks out like a sore thumb when the other two mountains are reporting. All three mountains should count season pass holder visits the same way (actual or estimate) and all three should report.
I would love to know – Junior Tickets and Senior Tickets sold. What if ALL kids under 18 were free? Might be the hook that non-super pass areas need. Methow Valley Trails (Washington, largest XC-ski area in N. America) has increased sales $ every year with free kids!
A product that could help grow the industry.
For Ski3 passholders do they allocate revenue by skier visits? I bought my pass via Belle this year for whatever reason, but will probably use it at Gore and WF combined more then Belle.
Revenue and gross profit are different numbers. Gross profit is a percentage of revenue.
Seems like Whiteface took a huge hit with the Canadian border being closed, as well as fewer people making overnight trips. My first year as an ORDA passholder was 2016-2017 and my last was 2020-2021, and 2020-2021 was the busiest season for Gore that I was a passholder. It certainly felt like the most crowded season ever. I didn’t ski at Belleayre last year, so I can’t comment on how crowded it was there.
Harv, any shot you could begin including numbers for van Ho?