The Storm Skiing Journal comes down hard on ORDA

[Harvey]

We can’t say definitively that NYS drove them out of business but many people believe that to be true.

There are certainly stories about anti-competitive practices. In the ADK there was a while when only state run areas were allowed to have road signs. The one sign on the Northway with exit numbers for Whiteface, Gore, West, Hickory and Titus on it, is a reparation to address that legacy.

It was really Belleayre under the DEC that was the worst "recent" offender. In the worst year, near the end of Tony Lanza's era, Belle dumped 17,000 free tickets in the marketplace. Laz will never forgive it, and I get that. In Tony's defense NY never gave Tony anything for marketing and didn't care if he gave the tix away. It was really a complete lack of leadership.

ORDA to their credit put a stop to that. Certainly Laz' outspoken approach mattered. We spoke out against it too, but most of that was after it had stopped.

As a skier, IMO it's a no brainer to figure out what to root for. NY keeps investing in skiing, all skiing, public and private. IMO the low/no interest loans are/were a homerun idea, when inflation was low. The program in 2018 led, by Scott at SANY — that brought in all that money for high efficiency snowmaking at private areas — was a grand slam.

 

[Peter Minde]

I get that the idea is that the alpine resorts make money but the XC, ski jumps, hockey rinks and bobsled runs are such drains on the budget that the whole venture ends up a net loser. Has this been documented, though, or is it just conjecture?

It's hard to tell. ORDA used to break out visitation and revenue for every property they manage. Annual reports from 10 years ago had much more of that detail. In the most recent annual report, I didn't see any data for revenue / passes at van Ho. Or maybe I was too impatient to look closely.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Does NYS want to give interest free loans to Vail/Hunter?

I hear ya. Honestly, NYS must feel like Vail Corp to the independently owned ski areas in NY. Like Vail Corp, NYS has a blank checkbook. It just feels dirty.

 

[tirolski]

It's hard to tell. ORDA used to break out visitation and revenue for every property they manage. Annual reports from 10 years ago had much more of that detail. In the most recent annual report, I didn't see any data for revenue / passes at van Ho. Or maybe I was too impatient to look closely.

NYS put's effort into transparent open government government, allegedly.

 

[tirolski]

Mt Van Hovenberg - bobsled and skeleton track, nordic center - just spent $28 million for the nordic center lodge
The Olympic Jump Complex - has a $3 million pulse gondola to ride to an elevator
The Olympic Ice Oval
Olympic Training Facilities for Bobsled
Olympic Conference Center - $19 million boondoggle for NYS - huge benefit to Lake Placid hotel and restaurant owners.
These facilities can only lose money by operating. That does not mean that NYS or the Federal government should not support some of them. I always wonder why NYS pays and the Federal Govt does not. Maybe NYS did not want to give up control to the Feds.

The International Organizations have competitions too at the above places and WF. Gore too more recently.
Do they cough up any cash for having access/competitions @ all those facilities? If so how much?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Strictly speaking, I think the towns own the Olympic facilities but ORDA manages them. Open to correction on this.

 

[x10003q]

Strictly speaking, I think the towns own the Olympic facilities but ORDA manages them. Open to correction on this.

I think it is the Town of North Elba. North Elba encompasses The Village of Lake Placid and has 3 of 12 ORDA Board of Director slots. That is one of the reasons why the ORDA Board is so Lake Placid centric.

 

[x10003q]

The International Organizations have competitions too at the above places and WF. Gore too more recently.
Do they cough up any cash for having access/competitions @ all those facilities? If so how much?

I do not know the answer. This 2023 World University Games might be the first time Gore has hosted an international event.

 

[Peter Minde]

Mt Van Hovenberg - bobsled and skeleton track, nordic center - just spent $28 million for the nordic center lodge
The Olympic Jump Complex - has a $3 million pulse gondola to ride to an elevator
The Olympic Ice Oval
Olympic Training Facilities for Bobsled
Olympic Conference Center - $19 million boondoggle for NYS - huge benefit to Lake Placid hotel and restaurant owners.

These facilities can only lose money by operating. That does not mean that NYS or the Federal government should not support some of them. I always wonder why NYS pays and the Federal Govt does not. Maybe NYS did not want to give up control to the Feds. The ski areas should be able to do better. But when the money is accounted for every year, the ski areas cannot support the losses in the other venues. The venues will always wear out and become outdated and need updating/replacement. Only the ski areas can generate positive cash flow.

As Lake Placid committed to host the World University Games, they sort of needed to do these upgrades. At Mt van Ho, in addition to building the new lodge, there's a new biathlon stadium, and 5 km of new trails with snowmaking. Total expenditure is closer to $60 million, I think.

I'd love to know how much money the conference center pulls in.

 

[x10003q]

As Lake Placid committed to host the World University Games, they sort of needed to do these upgrades. At Mt van Ho, in addition to building the new lodge, there's a new biathlon stadium, and 5 km of new trails with snowmaking. Total expenditure is closer to $60 million, I think.

I'd love to know how much money the conference center pulls in.

Cough Cough $80 million -
"The final price tag for New York taxpayers was around $80 million, ORDA spokesperson Elise Ruocco confirmed this month. That’s nearly double the $40-50 million estimate ORDA gave in February 2019, which had risen to $60 million by the time site work began that June. Since that time, ORDA’s board approved several change orders for unforeseen expenses at Van Hoevenberg costing at least $2.75 million."
my bolding

Van Hoevenberg upgrade meant to ‘last 100 years’

LAKE PLACID — As Kris Cheney-Seymour gave a tour of the enormous new Mountain Pass Lodge at Mount Van Hoevenberg on March 14, at one point he said, without breaking his matter-of-fact tone, this is now “one of the greatest Nordic venues on the planet.” He also said the investment will pay off...

www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com

This stuff should be Federally funded, not NYS funded, but then the locals who benefit would have no power.