The Storm Skiing Journal comes down hard on ORDA

[Harvey]

And skiing is the only thing NYS spends money on that I can really get behind, whatever.

Roads?

 

[x10003q]

Do any of those mountains lose tens of millions, and then spend tens of millions on those same mountains?

Gore and WF do not lose money. If you are in the ski business you have to update lifts, buildings, and equipment. NYS is not allowed to sell or have an outside operator lease the ski areas. Should they just let the ski areas turn to garbage? They already delay projects and lift/building/equipment replacements beyond normal time frames.

 

[x10003q]

NYS needs to sale those mountains.

Not allowed.

 

[x10003q]

It’s not a stretch. It’s true. To some small extent My taxes pay for ORDA too. A small percentage obviously but something

Come on now. The NYS budget is $212 billion for fiscal year 2021. I can send you a penny and your yearly ORDA portion is covered for the next 10,000,000 years.

 

[tirolski]

Gore and WF do not lose money. If you are in the ski business you have to update lifts, buildings, and equipment. NYS is not allowed to sell or have an outside operator lease the ski areas. Should they just let the ski areas turn to garbage? They already delay projects and lift/building/equipment replacements beyond normal time frames.

So where does ORDA lose it's money cause they do, allegedly?
Is it for good causes?

 

[Brownski]

I get that the idea is that the alpine resorts make money but the XC, ski jumps, hockey rinks and bobsled runs are such drains on the budget that the whole venture ends up a net loser. Has this been documented, though, or is it just conjecture?

 

[Campgottagopee]

If you are in the ski business you have to update lifts, buildings, and equipment.

This is where, imo, it's an unlevel playing field vs the independent hills. Lifts, buildings, and equipment are major bucks. The state can toss around 30 mil of tax payer monies like it's nothing, where as that kind of investment (debt) could send and independent into BK quick like if they have a couple of bad years.

 

[x10003q]

So where does ORDA lose it's money cause they do, allegedly?
Is it for a good cause?

Mt Van Hovenberg - bobsled and skeleton track, nordic center - just spent $28 million for the nordic center lodge
The Olympic Jump Complex - has a $3 million pulse gondola to ride to an elevator
The Olympic Ice Oval
Olympic Training Facilities for Bobsled
Olympic Conference Center - $19 million boondoggle for NYS - huge benefit to Lake Placid hotel and restaurant owners.

These facilities can only lose money by operating. That does not mean that NYS or the Federal government should not support some of them. I always wonder why NYS pays and the Federal Govt does not. Maybe NYS did not want to give up control to the Feds. The ski areas should be able to do better. But when the money is accounted for every year, the ski areas cannot support the losses in the other venues. The venues will always wear out and become outdated and need updating/replacement. Only the ski areas can generate positive cash flow.

 

[x10003q]

This is where, imo, it's an unlevel playing field vs the independent hills. Lifts, buildings, and equipment are major bucks. The state can toss around 30 mil of tax payer monies like it's nothing, where as that kind of investment (debt) could send and independent into BK quick like if they have a couple of bad years.

This is partially true, but only Belleayre is actually 'competing' with other ski areas and it was first opened in 1949, well before Plattekill, Hunter, and Windham. Gore and WF are not really competing with any other NYS ski areas, they are competing for visits with VT, so the unlevel playing field is just not accurate. What is the answer? Does NYS want to give interest free loans to Vail/Hunter? How about Holiday Valley and their 600k visits? Do they need free NYS money, too? Plattekill has operated under its current ownership for 30 years. We might be able to assume that there might be a little profit in that place or why do it? Yes, it is a labor of love - but here we are, despite Belleayre, Plattekill is still operating.

One more thing to think about - there is still ZERO activity on the expansion of Belleayre and its connection to Highmount. It was approved Jan, 2016, after starting the approval process in 1999. Remember all the hand wringing?

NYS has no choice but to operate the 3 areas until somebody changes the NYS Constitution.

 

[Brownski]

To be fair, there used to be other ski areas in the ADKs and Catskills that are now gone. We can’t say definitively that NYS drove them out of business but many people believe that to be true.