Poll: The Impact of the Epic Pass

[rfreeman]

... the price of a lift ticket is what matters most to you.

Well that is what "deal" implies. No doubt getting season passes to Elk and Plattekill and an IKON pass would give one better PA, Catskills, VT and CO ski experiences than an Epic pass does, albeit at 5x the cost of an Epic Local pass.

 

[Harvey]

If you put deal it quotes, I'd let it ride.

What is a better deal? Getting poked in the eye with a stick for a dollar, or getting am excellent meal for $200?

I realize this is my own personal math, not yours or anyone else's.

I haven't followed epic closely enough to know... are there costs beyond lift ticket where you would use it?

 

[rfreeman]

If you put deal it quotes, I'd let it ride.

What is a better deal? Getting poked in the eye with a stick for a dollar, or getting am excellent meal for $200?

I realize this is my own personal math, not yours or anyone else's.

I haven't followed epic closely enough to know... are there costs beyond lift ticket where you would use it?

As of this year Stowe charges $40 to park weekends and holidays unless you use a couple lots that require shuttles. Haven't been to Stowe since they made that change. Other than that no. Pass gets you a ~20% discount on food and lodging too.

Epic places get super crowded at peak times, but I get around that by (a) sticking to less popular lifts, (b) singles lines, (c) having IndyPasses to use as an alternate - and using those when skiing with my kids making singles lines undesirable.

Epic Pass for me and 3 IndyPasses for me and 2 kids costs me about $1100 total and last year I got about 75 ski/person/days out of that at an average cost of $15/person/day. About the same price as going to the movies.

I'm glad folks with lots of cash to burn can find more exclusive options and fund places that make more snow, but also at least as glad there are options affordable as this for those who want to raise skiing families on a budget, even if it is not always a Rolex experience.

 

[Temp6]

…even if it is not always a Rolex experience.

I think one of the main gripes with Epic is that they’ve taken some previous Rolex mountains and turned them into Timex mountains. The effect isn’t as pronounced at a place like Mount Snow or Hunter, but it’s a real shame at places like Stowe.

 

[rfreeman]

No doubt for folks who invested in owning a place in the town of Stowe - which costs orders of magnitude more than a season pass ever cost them - their once exclusive home mountain becoming a destination for hordes of budget conscious skiers totally bites, as do measures put in to limit those crowds - like charging even pass holders to park. And it probably will also cause the value of their real estate to drop.

But for those not tied to a single mountain via real estate, the availability of an affordable pass that lets one access local hills as well as destination resorts all over the country is an amazing thing, though as amazing as it is it requires strategic use to get an amazing ski experience from it - deciding carefully where to go when to avoid the crowds.

 

[Harvey]

strategic use to get an amazing ski experience

The strategy is retirement, or self-employment.

If the experience is only good on weekdays, you haven't accomplished much and probably won't succeed in the long run. Weekdays are a loss leader.

As long as long as Vail doesn't buy everything, those of us who value what Vail can't/won't provide will have options.

 

[chumpomatic]

No doubt for folks who invested in owning a place in the town of Stowe - which costs orders of magnitude more than a season pass ever cost them - their once exclusive home mountain becoming a destination for hordes of budget conscious skiers totally bites, as do measures put in to limit those crowds - like charging even pass holders to park. And it probably will also cause the value of their real estate to drop.

But for those not tied to a single mountain via real estate, the availability of an affordable pass that lets one access local hills as well as destination resorts all over the country is an amazing thing, though as amazing as it is it requires strategic use to get an amazing ski experience from it - deciding carefully where to go when to avoid the crowds.

I generally agree with what you're saying. Making skiing more affordable is a good thing but when you use terms like "exclusive" and "budget conscious" the way you are it insinuates a class tension that I think is unnecessary here. What's going on at Stowe and elsewhere isn't about rich folks being unhappy about losing exclusivity. It's just about crowds and poor management. I don't think anyone cares much about how budget conscious the people in those crowds are.

I'll also add in a late edit here that it's not clear to me what the long term impact of mega passes will be on the affordability of trips out west. Yes, the skiing is cheaper, but other costs have skyrocketed at many mega pass destinations. I think about SLC and how I used to be able to fly out there, stay on the mountain, and have great skiing for a quick 3-4 day trip. These days unless it's very early or late season staying on the mountain is very expensive and the crowds on a powder day are insane. Even on an average weekend getting up the canyon has become a nightmare. Of course this is not just due to the mega pass, it seems that skiers are concentrating at a smaller set of destination resorts, but I think the mega passes are a contributing factor. I guess it's like you say, you have to be strategic about how you use the pass, but I'm sorry that I won't be skiing in SLC again anytime soon. That said, I write this from Revelstoke right now which is on Ikon but thankfully hard enough to get to that it remains relatively uncrowded. Lift tickets are also sufficiently affordable for someone like me who didn't buy a mega pass this year.

 

[rfreeman]

I generally agree with what you're saying. Making skiing more affordable is a good thing but when you use terms like "exclusive" and "budget conscious" the way you are it insinuates a class tension that I think is unnecessary here. What's going on at Stowe and elsewhere isn't about rich folks being unhappy about losing exclusivity. It's just about crowds and poor management. I don't think anyone cares much about how budget conscious the people in those crowds are.

There are definitely people on skiing boards I participate in that argue that passes should be more expensive so that their favorite mountains have fewer people. Inevitably those that would not be there due to higher prices are more budget conscious people.

The strategy is retirement, or self-employment.

If the experience is only good on weekdays, you haven't accomplished much and probably won't succeed in the long run. Weekdays are a loss leader.

As long as long as Vail doesn't buy everything, those of us who value what Vail can't/won't provide will have options.

I am employed 9-5 by a corporation, my kids are in school and never miss school to ski. We ski weekends, holidays and rare times I use PTO to ski solo. We make it work. There has been one day this year I have waited in a lift line for 10+ minutes (Hunter early season).

Ski early, ski late, use single lines, ski fixed grip, upper mountain and expert lifts, don't return to base except in an emergency.

 

[MarzNC]

Of course this is not just due to the mega pass, it seems that skiers are concentrating at a smaller set of destination resorts . . .

That's partially because there are plenty of people who haven't heard of any resort except a destination resort. Plus the populations of Seattle, Denver, and SLC have been exploding in the last decade. Don't know whether to call the new residents "locals" or not.

I was surprised at the number of people who drove to Winter Park on a December Saturday who had never heard of Wolf Creek. Or Taos for that matter. No one brought up Crested Butte either. A few were Colorado natives but most had moved there for work or college/grad school.

 

[MarzNC]

Ski early, ski late, use single lines, ski fixed grip, upper mountain and expert lifts, don't return to base except in an emergency.

Harder to do in the mid-Atlantic, meaning the small PA mountains that are now on Epic. Few even have a mid-mountain lift.