Poll: The Impact of the Epic Pass

[raisingarizona]

I think some of the bad effects might be masked by the current boom in skier visits. I wonder what will happen if the economy really tanks. If people rule out flying for a big ski vacation, trends might shift back towards choosing one home mountain and sticking with it.

And with a changing climate, unpredictable conditions ski vacations will eventually experience a serious downturn I’d imagine.

 

[snoloco]

I think some of the bad effects might be masked by the current boom in skier visits. I wonder what will happen if the economy really tanks. If people rule out flying for a big ski vacation, trends might shift back towards choosing one home mountain and sticking with it.

I mean the economy did tank in 2020, and the 2020-2021 season had excellent attendance numbers when you consider that there were capacity restrictions. I think weather has a greater impact on skier visits than economic conditions anyways. I don't remember the 2008-2009 or 2009-2010 seasons being any less crowded than usual. Additionally, most people who ski at western resorts live out west, and thus drive to their destination.

 

[Harvey]

I mean the economy did tank in 2020, and the 2020-2021 season had excellent attendance numbers when you consider that there were capacity restrictions. I think weather has a greater impact on skier visits than economic conditions anyways. I don't remember the 2008-2009 or 2009-2010 seasons being any less crowded than usual. Additionally, most people who ski at western resorts live out west, and thus drive to their destination.

In 08-09 I only skied because I already had my pass. My pay was cut by 40% in November. That all has something to do with why I flipped out about paid parking at Gore. To me it seemed tone deaf.

In 2020, it looked like it was headed in the same direction. This time I was in charge, and cut my own pay, but two weeks later Uncle Sam bailed out my sorry ass, and I went skiing.

FWIW not sure I'd call last year's numbers a boom in skier visits. Highest number ever by .3%, I think. Be very interesting to see what happens this year. I do agree with snoloco on weather. It is a huge factor in total visits.

 

[raisingarizona]

I mean the economy did tank in 2020, and the 2020-2021 season had excellent attendance numbers when you consider that there were capacity restrictions. I think weather has a greater impact on skier visits than economic conditions anyways. I don't remember the 2008-2009 or 2009-2010 seasons being any less crowded than usual. Additionally, most people who ski at western resorts live out west, and thus drive to their destination.

Gotta disagree here Sno, the vast majority of skiers at destination resorts in say, Colorado are from the south/sout east/ east.

 

[chumpomatic]

I also think there's a good case for the west needing more ski areas.

^^this!

 

[Andy_ROC]

Hopefully a good number of these skiers/boarders find their way into Metaverse and don't come out. Saves room for us in real world

Anyway it seems outdoor activity has been growing in popularity for years and then the pandemic supercharged it. Crowded skiing was bound to happen with or without mega passes.

About the Epic - While I'm not an Epic pass holder, for the first time I am doing the full Ikon due to several trips planned.

Despite that my opinion remains unchanged that mega passes aren't great and anything associated with Vail is particularly problematic.

Looking forward to the season.

 

[snoloco]

In 08-09 I only skied because I already had my pass. My pay was cut by 40% in November. That all has something to do with why I flipped out about paid parking at Gore. To me it seemed tone deaf.

A lot of people already had passes and skied that year, which was my point. Presumably most resorts offered renewal incentives to keep those who had 08-09 passes for 09-10, much like they did during the pandemic, but for different reasons. That's also around when the Epic Pass was introduced, going back to my point about how it helped revitalize an industry that was crushed by the Great Recession.

At Killington, we went through the same thing last fall with Fast Tracks that Gore did with paid parking. It was announced well after the pass deadline, just a few weeks before the season started. At that time, inflation was really starting to pick up and squeeze household budgets, so again it seemed tone deaf to offer this product to allow 1%ers to cut in front of everyone else, when it was getting so much more expensive to even travel to the resort.

FWIW not sure I'd call last year's numbers a boom in skier visits. Highest number ever by .3%, I think. Be very interesting to see what happens this year. I do agree with snoloco on weather. It is a huge factor in total visits.

I never said last year was a boom in skier visits. Just that it didn't take much effort to get back or close to pre pandemic. levels.

 

[Harvey]

I never said last year was a boom in skier visits.

Sorry was responding to Brownski:

I think some of the bad effects might be masked by the current boom in skier visits.

To Gore's credit, they made half (40%?) of Lot A paid and left it at that for 15 years.

Knock wood, hope I didn't jinx it.

 

[MarzNC]

Gotta disagree here Sno, the vast majority of skiers at destination resorts in say, Colorado are from the south/sout east/ east.

And midwest. There are people who drive out to Colorado from Chicago on an annual basis. VR bought the local resorts near Chicago, Detroit, and St. Paul/Minn. to capture that market for Epic destination resorts in the west.

Met midwest ski club people at Taos who drove non-stop day and night. Slightly nutty seniors given the good prices that ski clubs get for plane fares and ground transportation from the airport. But they liked having wheels to go bar hopping in town. Average age . . . about 60.

 

[snoloco]

I thought this fit in best here, and it deals with another issue commonly faced by Epic or Ikon holders who are flying to a destination, that being airport transportation.

I follow various travel channels on YouTube, and this video caught my attention.

It's an American Airlines "flight" from Philadelphia to Atlantic City that's actually a bus.

You board the bus airside (past security) as you'd do if you were connecting to an actual flight, but then you leave the airport and drive to Atlantic City, and get off landside (outside security) the Atlantic City airport. For the reverse trip, you board landside, and need to clear security in Philadelphia.

The whole idea behind this service is it's a workaround for American Airlines to deal with the pilot shortage. So they serve a few destinations that are very close to Philadelphia (Atlantic City, Lancaster, Allentown) with buses.

I immediately thought that one, the destination doesn't necessarily have to be an airport, and two, that since your luggage gets checked through to the bus, that this would work great for ski destinations.

You could fly to Denver or Salt Lake City, and without even leaving the airport, board a bus to the ski area, and your luggage is all checked through. On the way back, you avoid the airport check in line, since you check your luggage when boarding the bus, even though you'd still need to clear security at the airport.