Poll: The Impact of the Epic Pass

[tirolski]

It's certainly increased the number of people who ski and travel in general. Could've happened with or without mega passes...
Alterra just acquired a ski baggage delivery company. You use these services when traveling, and instead of having to get them through independent providers, the resorts can just offer them themselves.

I also think there's a good case for the west needing more ski areas. Since there really aren't any left to acquire in these regions, if either company wants to build their portfolio, they may need to start from scratch.

Alterra just bought a Cali bump up the hill outside Elle Lay.

ALTERRA MOUNTAIN COMPANY ADDS SNOW VALLEY MOUNTAIN RESORT IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TO ITS FAMILY OF DESTINATIONS

Alterra Mountain Company has closed on the purchase of Snow Valley Mountain Resort, adding another beloved Southern California destination to its portfolio of iconic year-round destinations. Snow Valley will join the operations of Big Bear Mountain Resort in Big Bear Lake, including Bear...

www.alterramtnco.com

Surfs up dude.

 

[MarzNC]

Southern California a tougher place to sell Epic Passes starting with the 2023-24 season. Not only has Alterra added a resort, there is a new independent trio that plans to go after that market.

December 9, 2022

Mountain High, Dodge Ridge Owners Purchase China Peak, California

New owners Invision Capital and Karl Kapuscinski will combine three resorts on joint pass; look to add more West Coast ski areas to portfolio

www.stormskiing.com

 

[tirolski]

Big Bear is nice.
Only ever been there once with a friend from Speculator in the summertime catching rainbow trout using marshmallows and a chunk of worm at night. Put em on a stringer and some bigass lobster like thingys

 

[tirolski]

Alterra just bought a Cali bump up the hill outside Elle Lay.

ALTERRA MOUNTAIN COMPANY ADDS SNOW VALLEY MOUNTAIN RESORT IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TO ITS FAMILY OF DESTINATIONS

Alterra Mountain Company has closed on the purchase of Snow Valley Mountain Resort, adding another beloved Southern California destination to its portfolio of iconic year-round destinations. Snow Valley will join the operations of Big Bear Mountain Resort in Big Bear Lake, including Bear...

www.alterramtnco.com

Surfs up dude.

 

[snoloco]

I said this in the Hunter conditions thread and I'll say it here again:

When a resort is getting a majority of their ticket revenue (and skier visits) from passes purchased before the season started, then there is little incentive to go above and beyond to provide an excellent ski experience, and a large incentive to cut costs and attempt to nickel and dime guests.

We've seen this at all of the Northeast Vail resorts, where snowmaking has been limited, staffing levels reduced, lift hours cut, and more cost cutting measures. We've seen nickel and diming in the form of charging for parking at Mount Snow and Stowe, and in the form of eliminating all free options for bag storage at Hunter.

Of course if you take things too far, then you'll lose pass sales, but most people who buy passes are somewhat of a captive audience. They are bounded by location, and there might not be a different pass in the region that has the access they want or need.

I'm going to assume that the typical passholder takes mostly day trips to their home mountain, but does 2-3 overnights at a different eastern resort, and one trip out west. Let's analyze their options in The Catskills:

You can buy the Epic Pass and get unlimited access at Hunter, plus unlimited access to dozens of resorts all over the country. You can easily ski the entire season on just one pass.

Windham is an Ikon partner, but you can't ski a whole season on just 5-7 days. To get unlimited access, you will need to buy Windham's own pass, which is well over 1000 dollars. That Pass doesn't get you any reciprocal benefits, so you will need to upgrade to the top tier pass to get Ikon included. This would cost 2-3 times as much as the Epic Pass.

Then there's Belleayre. ORDA's Ski 3 Pass covers both day trips to Belleayre and overnights to Gore or Whiteface, but has limited reciprocal benefits, and no access or even discounts out west. You would need to buy two passes, or buy expensive day tickets for your western trip.

Plattekill's pass costs as much or more than the Epic Pass, but it's for a mountain that has a short season, is only open 3 days a week, and the pass has little or no reciprocal benefits. Any other trips would require a separate pass or day tickets.

I think you can understand why people are willing to put up with a lot and still buy mega passes.

 

[Harvey]

I think you can understand why people are willing to put up with a lot and still buy mega passes.

Translation: the market has spoken.

What you seem to want is ownership that is not publicly held, with motivations that go beyond pure capitalism. Ownership that on some level loves skiing and values community.

I want that too. The only way for skiers to have input in the outcome is to buy that "expensive" home mountain pass, in great enough numbers to matter.

For me it's a no brainer. I don't calculate my lift ticket cost per day. I simply return to the places that give me joy.

Do You Love Your Home Mountain?

It's your origin story, like the planet Krypton in Superman.

nyskiblog.com

 

[snoloco]

What I do is most similar to the Windham option I described. I get Killington's top tier pass, the Beast 365, which includes Ikon. I can use that to visit other eastern resorts, and do any western trips I want to do. I also have a Ski 3 pass.

I think with Killington being an Ikon partner, they have a certain incentive to attract Ikon holders to go there rather than other Ikon resorts. It's a shared revenue model and their piece of the pie depends on skier visits. I think one of the reasons they've been so busy this year is spillover from Stratton and Sugarbush underperforming so badly.

 

[Ripitz]

I'm going to assume that the typical passholder takes mostly day trips to their home mountain, but does 2-3 overnights at a different eastern resort, and one trip out west. Let's analyze their options in The Catskills:

We have Belleayre Limited and Indy Full passes for the price of an Epic pass. They have the best snowmaking with the most terrain open and we can go ski 120 other places without lines.

 

[rfreeman]

I said this in the Hunter conditions thread and I'll say it here again:

When a resort is getting a majority of their ticket revenue (and skier visits) from passes purchased before the season started, then there is little incentive to go above and beyond to provide an excellent ski experience, and a large incentive to cut costs and attempt to nickel and dime guests.

We've seen this at all of the Northeast Vail resorts, where snowmaking has been limited, staffing levels reduced, lift hours cut, and more cost cutting measures. We've seen nickel and diming in the form of charging for parking at Mount Snow and Stowe, and in the form of eliminating all free options for bag storage at Hunter.

Of course if you take things too far, then you'll lose pass sales, but most people who buy passes are somewhat of a captive audience. They are bounded by location, and there might not be a different pass in the region that has the access they want or need.

I'm going to assume that the typical passholder takes mostly day trips to their home mountain, but does 2-3 overnights at a different eastern resort, and one trip out west. Let's analyze their options in The Catskills:

You can buy the Epic Pass and get unlimited access at Hunter, plus unlimited access to dozens of resorts all over the country. You can easily ski the entire season on just one pass.

Windham is an Ikon partner, but you can't ski a whole season on just 5-7 days. To get unlimited access, you will need to buy Windham's own pass, which is well over 1000 dollars. That Pass doesn't get you any reciprocal benefits, so you will need to upgrade to the top tier pass to get Ikon included. This would cost 2-3 times as much as the Epic Pass.

Then there's Belleayre. ORDA's Ski 3 Pass covers both day trips to Belleayre and overnights to Gore or Whiteface, but has limited reciprocal benefits, and no access or even discounts out west. You would need to buy two passes, or buy expensive day tickets for your western trip.

Plattekill's pass costs as much or more than the Epic Pass, but it's for a mountain that has a short season, is only open 3 days a week, and the pass has little or no reciprocal benefits. Any other trips would require a separate pass or day tickets.

I think you can understand why people are willing to put up with a lot and still buy mega passes.

Basically it's the best deal in skiing if you live in this region and like to also ski out west at least once a few days a year - so you accept it for what it is, don't expect everything to be just like it was when you were spending way more $ for it, learn how to make it worthwhile and supplement it with some other nice deals like the IndyPass.

At least that's what I do.

 

[Harvey]

Basically it's the best deal in skiing if

... the price of a lift ticket is what matters most to you.