ORDA Snowmaking Improvements

[TheGreatAbyss]

Drift - They've been telling me to put some % of my 401K into EM for close to 20 years now. Still waiting for that to pay off.

 

[DomB]

Drift - They've been telling me to put some % of my 401K into EM for close to 20 years now. Still waiting for that to pay off.

Three funds. Total US market, Total Ex US (which I think is like 5 pc emerging markets?), and Intermediate bond funds. So say the bogle heads.

 

[x10003q]

What is this bugaboo you have over all of this 'wasteful spending'? The NYS 2023 budget is $105 billion and ORDA's budget is $105 million. Now look at your tax return and note how much of the total tax you pay is NY State specific tax and then multiply that by 0.1%. I for one am quite happy that $13.02 of my taxes went to ORDA.

Briefing Book | FY 2023 Executive Budget

FY 2023 (2022-23) Executive Budget Briefing Book

www.budget.ny.gov

It is only wasteful in light of ORDA's failure to increase visits at Gore per the Mandate. I am not critical of the NYS spending. When you own an asset like a ski area, it needs to be properly maintained. But updates are very different than expansion. NYS has financed the huge expansion at Gore, yet ORDA has not added any visits over the last 20 years. ORDA is supposed to boost the economies around the ski areas, but it has failed to do so at Gore.

NYS paid for Top Ridge (opened in 2002) Burnt Ridge ( opened in 2008) and the North Creek Ski Bowl and interconnect (opened 2011) and visits have not increased. Now ORDA is going to spend $30 million from NYS for the new Ski Bowl Lodge and high speed quad for the ski bowl. Without a change in how ORDA markets Gore, visits will still not increase and we will still be having the same discussions for years to come.

 

[tirolski]

Wow you got 3,000 people in Georgia that makes no sense . . . .

Yeah sure. Found one of my old favorite T-shirts.

 

[Ripitz]

The new, ‘like nothing you have ever seen before’ mountain-coaster-zip-line-rail thingy will solve a lot of these issues.

 

[SayvilleSteve]

yet ORDA has not added any visits over the last 20 years. ORDA is supposed to boost the economies around the ski areas,

According to this data:

ORDA Skier Visits: Whiteface, Gore, Belleayre

NYSkiBlog's update of ORDA skier visits and revenue for NY's state-owned ski areas, Whiteface, Gore Mountain and Belleayre Ski Center.

nyskiblog.com

Skiers visits have remained static, but revenue has increased by two-thirds. That's pretty solid from an ORDA-centric view, but it doesn't help the local area like you rightly point out. The problem for local businesses is that a ski season is at best 3-5 months of the year. There is admittedly not a lot to do around Gore besides ski so people generally don't stick around. Meanwhile, it is too financially risky for a private company/individual to open/operate restaurants, hotels, bars, shopping, etc. So North Creek continues to be sleepy. Hence, the government steps in to foster growth. Ziplines, bike trails, wedding facilities, foliage festivals, etc to attract more year-round visits. This is what will make the difference between a local business thriving for a few weeks and being sustainable year-round and ORDA's budget is spending money to lure that customer. If there is more year-round demand, it will likely lead to more business formations and economic benefit to the area. I think we have to look beyond just skier visits and ascertain if there has been an increase in summer/fall visits over the past decade-plus.

 

[Q*bert Jones IV]

Personally, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever if the government wants to prop up a public good, even if it means that they lose some money. That's exactly why government exists.

And if it so happens that I personally enjoy that public good, all the better.

 

[Harvey]

How much has been spent on capex and expansion over that the last 20 years, industry-wide?

I have no idea. But I bet it's a big number, likely many billions of dollars. What has been the ROI on that?

Skier visits have been essentially flat over the last 20 years in the US.

That would make ORDA performance in line with the industry average.

 

[tirolski]

If you feel like it, read this 2005 Economic Study for Gore. The main stuff is only about 12 pages.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/gore2005ump2.pdf

This is the economic study that NYS Gov Pataki used to justify the Ski Bowl connection.

Pataki’s liaison weighed in on a recent opinion piece.

New York and Lake Placid can't rest on their laurels after FISU. This is why | Opinion

In order to sustain Lake Placid's momentum after the FISU games, New Yorkers must support the upkeep of its venues.

www.poughkeepsiejournal.com

 

[Zykamps]

I grew up just east of Albany, across the river. Learned to ski in mass, and dad always took us to Vermont for bigger days. A bit older my friends and I always went to Vermont. Why? I don't know but I never knew there was excellent skiing in nys. So after an 18 year break I got back into it and suddenly realized how great gore and other NY mountains are. ( I live on the western edge of the catskills).

So, if anything, to support points made earlier, there are very limited amenities in the area.

Also feels like the DMV or social security without the guns... Not necessarily inviting like Plattekill where you feel like you're home when you walk in.