Windham Mountain Going Private?

[MarzNC]

They also told me Windham had no control of the RFID card so I could use my pass regardless.

I gather from another ski forum that all that may happen if you ride Windham lifts without an Ikon reservation is an email that says essentially "don't do it again." My impression is that the email came from Windham, not Ikon.

While Ikon FAQs make it clear that making an Ikon reservation and being a no-show could lead to suspension of the pass for up to 30 days, there is no mention of any general consequence for using Ikon a resort without a reservation.

 

[tirolski]

if you have a false premise than any consequence is BS. a valid conclusion.

FIFY

 

[tirolski]

I gather from another ski forum that all that may happen if you ride Windham lifts without an Ikon reservation is an email that says essentially "don't do it again."

While Ikon FAQs make it clear that making an Ikon reservation and being a no-show could lead to suspension of the pass for up to 30 days, there is no mention of any general consequence for using Ikon a resort without a reservation.

So is cheating fair once?
And/Or is it like ducking a rope?

 

[MarzNC]

Btw, Ikon and Fail will probably go to their 'limited day' partners and change the terms for next year after getting dinged up by Windham to 'clarify' the terms under which reservation systems can be used to 'unfairly' limit access.

Right now I would bet it is either more of an honor system or Ikon back doors some control through provisions on RFID access like they noted to you.

I would guess that the Ikon Partners who have been on the MCP for years get listened to more than anyone from Windham. JH and Alta were MCP co-founders. The Base Plus concept was a compromise for Alterra to keep that level of independent Partner resort on Ikon. Stuart heard that directly from Rusty Gregory in a Storm Skiing podcast.

Vail Resorts only has Telluride left as a non-VR Partner for Epic. Completely different relationship than for Alterra and Ikon Partners. Without the well-known Ikon Partners, Ikon wouldn't be selling nearly as many passes to folks in the northeast, mid-Atlantic, and southeast. Boyne Resorts, Powdr, plus the MCP resorts also on Ikon have a lot of influence for Ikon decisions.

 

[MarzNC]

Windham will ditch Ikon next year or they wouldn't be doing this. The honor system works because no one knows its an honor system, and you don't want to make the trip just to find out you that it's not.

mm

Making all Ikon holders unhappy this season doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run. Assuming Windham actually wants people in the region to ever consider buying a lift ticket in the future under a public/private set up.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

You will see above, you are using many 'if then' statements. However, the "if's" are not legally accurate.

The "if's" don't need to be legally accurate to make the argument that conduct is causing economic harm. My point is that there is a whole lot of market power behavior that causes harm but is not illegal. I'm sure you could fill Yankee Stadium lawyers who spend their lives nibbling at the edges of anti-trust law.

OTOH when I bought an Ikon pass I was told I had unrestricted access to Windham. Now Windham is telling me I have to pay cash for weekends. I'm pretty sure that's a fraud, they're just counting on it being too hard to prosecute.

mm

 

[DomB]

The "if's" don't need to be legally accurate to make the argument that conduct is causing economic harm.

mm

I agree with this. I saw anticompetive or antitrust, or something and thought you meant it was illegal. Yes, 100% it is harmful and bad.

 

[MarzNC]

OTOH when I bought an Ikon pass I was told I had unrestricted access to Windham. Now Windham is telling me I have to pay cash for weekends. I'm pretty sure that's a fraud, they're just counting on it being too hard to prosecute.

It was known in July that Windham and several other Ikon Partners (JH, Alta, Aspen, Big Sky, etc.) would require lift access reservations for 2023-24. That implies restricted access during busy periods, without any indication of which days that might happen.

When did you get Ikon for this season?

Taos required Ikon reservations in 2022-23 and decided to drop that idea for 2023-24. Upgrading a couple of lifts was probably a big reason. I've only seen a lift line at the main base of more than 10 minutes at Taos first thing on a Saturday morning when all the local teams, kid lesson groups, and local lesson groups start getting ready 20-30 minutes before Lift 1 opens. While Ikon reservations did "sell out" for a few Saturdays after mid-January more than a week before, people were usually able to get a reservation when more spots opened up on a Monday.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

It was known in July that Windham and several other Ikon Partners (JH, Alta, Aspen, Big Sky, etc.) would require lift access reservations for 2023-24. That implies restricted access during busy periods, without any indication of which days that might happen.

I knew about reservations, but there was no notice that the Ikon would be treated differently than cash in the reservation system.. What makes what they did a fraud is that they are still allowing reservations for cash, but not for Ikon. There was no indication that Ikon would not be honored on weekends.

What they did was sell a pass but announced that there would be capacity limits to improve the whole experience, then decided the limit was ZERO. How is that not a fraud?

mm

 

[tirolski]

I knew about reservations, but there was no notice that the Ikon would be treated differently than cash in the reservation system.. What makes what they did a fraud is that they are still allowing reservations for cash, but not for Ikon. There was no indication that Ikon would not be honored on weekends.

What they did was sell a pass but announced that there would be capacity limits to improve the whole experience, then decided the limit was ZERO. How is that not a fraud?

mm

The whole ya gotta buy two lift ticket (Sat&Sun) and can’t buy just one lift ticket on weekends seems fishy in light of what’s happened with the whole "no reservations available on weekends" this season thingy.
It doesn’t make sense other than more cent$ for Windham. Ikon already got paid.
Wonder if folks @Ikon suspected and/or knew what Windham was gonna pull.