Windham Mountain Going Private?

[tirolski]

What's the timing of the storm? I would think Monday will be tracked out given the current lack of terrain and no snow in the woods.

It’s gonna be a quick hitter.
Generally for CNY and ENY If ya like skiing fresh pow go Saturday night. YMMV.
Should be fresh pow if they don’t groom Sunday morning.
Later should be some good packed powder for places for a bit. Monday & Tuesday.
Lord knows we need it.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

So you will be there on Sunday?

No. Maybe Belle for the first time. The Windham thing was for a day to meet some friends.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

Btw, Ikon and Fail will probably go to their 'limited day' partners and change the terms for next year after getting dinged up by Windham to 'clarify' the terms under which reservation systems can be used to 'unfairly' limit access.

Right now I would bet it is either more of an honor system or Ikon back doors some control through provisions on RFID access like they noted to you.

Windham will ditch Ikon next year or they wouldn't be doing this. The honor system works because no one knows its an honor system, and you don't want to make the trip just to find out you that it's not.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

In other news, apparently you can always get a reasonably(?) priced lift ticket by booking lodging through the mountain booking service. That sounds like a way for WMC to grab some of the value from STRs by forcing property owners to book through the mountain service. It's one more way to extract monopoly profits. It shows how monopolies distort the economy in ways that fly under anti-trust laws.
Everyone has an opinion about Ikon and Epic, but the whole economy is going the same way.

mm

 

[DomB]

Windham will ditch Ikon next year or they wouldn't be doing this. The honor system works because no one knows its an honor system, and you don't want to make the trip just to find out you that it's not.

mm

Yes, I meant Ikon assuming their limited day partners will work honorably. Not windham relying on honor system.

Someone at a ski shop told me they used their RFID (before this all came out) because he didn't realize he had to have a res and all that happened was he got a nasty email either from Ikon or Windham that said we will shut your card off.

If it came from Ikon, I bet it would be a lot last nasty now.

 

[DomB]

In other news, apparently you can always get a reasonably(?) priced lift ticket by booking lodging through the mountain booking service. That sounds like a way for WMC to grab some of the value from STRs by forcing property owners to book through the mountain service. It's one more way to extract monopoly profits. It shows how monopolies distort the economy in ways that fly under anti-trust laws.
Everyone has an opinion about Ikon and Epic, but the whole economy is going the same way.

mm

Though to be a monopoly (Mr. Engineer) you need monopoly power. There is lots of case law that says where there is competition, you can use pricing power when they are in your grasp (e.g. you can go down the road to hunter or belle or platty so therefore however Windham bangs you, it is not anticompetitive in the legal sense). Just not cool.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

Though to be a monopoly (Mr. Engineer) you need monopoly power. There is lots of case law that says where there is competition, you can use pricing power when they are in your grasp (e.g. you can go down the road to hunter or belle or platty so therefore however Windham bangs you, it is not anticompetitive in the legal sense). Just not cool.but it still causes real harm.

FIFY
I may be a dumb engineer, but a 50 year career in the "deregulated" utility industry taught me to be an expert in the use of market power. You don't need to be a monopoly to exercise market power. Vail clearly has market power, and the entire ski industry has reorganized and developed new strategies in response.

Whether or not there is market power (under anti-trust law) depends on the definition of the market you are looking at. If you define the market as "lift served skiing in the town of Windham" then when there is clearly a monopoly, but if you define it as "winter vacations" then even every ski area in North America combined couldn't exercise market power. The ski industry in general understands that the second definition is real and important, but for property owners in Windham the first definition is more real and critical. That's why a lot of locals are cranked about the new business model at the mountain. The whole "club" is looking more and more like a play to grab some of the value of on and off mountain properties. The fact that it is legal only proves that existing laws are not adequate (or adequately enforced) to protect the interests small property owners (which in this case ironically includes the owners of $$$$$$ on mountain weekend homes).

None of what's happening in Windham is important except that it shows what is happening everywhere in the economy.

mm

 

[DomB]

FIFY
I may be a dumb engineer, but a 50 year career in the "deregulated" utility industry taught me to be an expert in the use of market power. You don't need to be a monopoly to exercise market power. Vail clearly has market power, and the entire ski industry has reorganized and developed new strategies in response.

Whether or not there is market power (under anti-trust law) depends on the definition of the market you are looking at. If you define the market as "lift served skiing in the town of Windham" then when there is clearly a monopoly, but if you define it as "winter vacations" then even every ski area in North America combined couldn't exercise market power. The ski industry in general understands that the second definition is real and important, but for property owners in Windham the first definition is more real and critical. That's why a lot of locals are cranked about the new business model at the mountain. The whole "club" is looking more and more like a play to grab some of the value of on and off mountain properties. The fact that it is legal only proves that existing laws are not adequate (or adequately enforced) to protect the interests small property owners (which in this case ironically includes the owners of $$$$$$ on mountain weekend homes).

None of what's happening in Windham is important except that it shows what is happening everywhere in the economy.

mm

If you are an engineer, like many people, you are probably smarter than me.

You will see above, you are using many 'if then' statements. However, the "if's" are not legally accurate.

Did not intend to poke you, just I have a bad sense of humor.

Best,
D

 

[tirolski]

FIFY
I may be a dumb engineer, but a 50 year career in the "deregulated" utility industry taught me to be an expert in the use of market power. You don't need to be a monopoly to exercise market power. Vail clearly has market power, and the entire ski industry has reorganized and developed new strategies in response.

Whether or not there is market power (under anti-trust law) depends on the definition of the market you are looking at. If you define the market as "lift served skiing in the town of Windham" then when there is clearly a monopoly, but if you define it as "winter vacations" then even every ski area in North America combined couldn't exercise market power. The ski industry in general understands that the second definition is real and important, but for property owners in Windham the first definition is more real and critical. That's why a lot of locals are cranked about the new business model at the mountain. The whole "club" is looking more and more like a play to some of the value of on and off mountain properties. The fact that it is legal only proves that existing laws are not adequate (or adequately enforced) to protect the interests small property owners (which in this case ironically includes the owners of $$$$$$ on mountain weekend homes).

None of what's happening in Windham is import except that it shows what is happening everywhere in the economy.

mm

That’s some insight.

Sheesh.

Amish life looks gooder and gooder.

You will see above, you are using many 'if then' statements. However, the "if's" are not legally accurate.

If-then statements are used in logic + mathematics + proving theorems.
Depends on how lawyers (&judges &juries) use em whether they're legal or not.

 

[DomB]

That’s some insight.

Sheesh.

Amish life looks gooder and gooder.

If-then statements are used in logic + mathematics + proving theorems.
Depends on how lawyers use em whether they're legal or not.

Logic from my 9th grade math - if you have a false premise than any consequence is a valid conclusion. If it is a true premise, and a true consequence, it is a sound conclusion.

Also check out Vito Sinisi's work on inferential logic.