ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

Campgottagopee said:
If you're waiting I'd seriously look at one of the big three, Chevy, Ford, or Ram. I get that Rivian is cool and all, but man they keep delaying and raising prices. I'd also be cautious of their limited dealer network.
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Good point. I actually have a Ford Lightening reservation. The Lightening does some really cool stuff. But right now for us, a third row will and ground clearance are the highest wants. I haven't focused on their pricing, but it looks like they pulled a Tesla when they said you could get a good one cheap. Their large range (280 mi battery) nicely equipped will be like 72k before the credit, so like 63k in NY after tax refund 18 months later.

At least what I have seen, they have taken the normal Ford 150 body and thrown the battery under, so it may actually limit some of that ground clearance (which I am sure will be fine anyway).

If I buy ICE, will be a strong lean toward Hybrid for the practical reason that you can usually at least go short distances on the small battery they have (30-40 miles?). Aside from ski season, that is like 90 percent of our driving. My inlaws and the beach are just about in that range.
 
DomB said:
Good point. I actually have a Ford Lightening reservation. The Lightening does some really cool stuff. But right now for us, a third row will and ground clearance are the highest wants. I haven't focused on their pricing, but it looks like they pulled a Tesla when they said you could get a good one cheap. Their large range (280 mi battery) nicely equipped will be like 72k before the credit, so like 63k in NY after tax refund 18 months later.

At least what I have seen, they have taken the normal Ford 150 body and thrown the battery under, so it may actually limit some of that ground clearance (which I am sure will be fine anyway).

If I buy ICE, will be a strong lean toward Hybrid for the practical reason that you can usually at least go short distances on the small battery they have (30-40 miles?). Aside from ski season, that is like 90 percent of our driving. My inlaws and the beach are just about in that range.
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Sticking with a pickup/EV from Ford/GM/Ram is probably the safer bet. The heavy dealer network has higher odds of getting something fixed vs a never ever like Rivian.
 
x10003q said:
Sticking with a pickup/EV from Ford/GM/Ram is probably the safer bet. The heavy dealer network has higher odds of getting something fixed vs a never ever like Rivian.
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I'd also add staying is business. Rivian, while grandiose in speculation, hasn't proved anything other than they can talk real loud. So far they haven't built sqwadoooosh. You can only keep that up for so long before going belly-up.
 
Campgottagopee said:
I'd also add staying is business. Rivian, while grandiose in speculation, hasn't proved anything other than they can talk real loud. So far they haven't built sqwadoooosh. You can only keep that up for so long before going belly-up.
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And now that the Fed is going to raise interest rates, we're going to see how these never profitable businesses are going to fare. These guys have been living on cheap money and stocks in the tech sector are already getting skittish.
 
G.ski said:
And now that the Fed is going to raise interest rates, we're going to see how these never profitable businesses are going to fare. These guys have been living on cheap money and stocks in the tech sector are already getting skittish.
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This is all true. I still think that if they sputter enough, Amazon, which already owns a big stake (20%? can't remember) will just buy them. They won't fail then. Consumers may not end up liking them long term, but they won't fail.
 
I will also say, frankly, the legacy automakers don't have credibility to me in this area. Maybe they will actually commit, which certainly Ford and GM seems to be doing, but it is tricky for them as the vast majority of their profits are from ICE (and they have to buy enviro credits from Tesla!).

I think the big automakers have concluded EVs are going to be the market. The question is if that is in 5 (unlikely), 10, 15, 20 years.
 
I think they concluded that they’re going to be forced to make EVs the market just like we’re going to be forced to buy them. And the affordable long range EVs aren’t going to look like Rivians and Teslas. They’re going to be a more efficient version of the Nissan Leaf. And it’s gonna suck
 
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