ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[DomB]

Net metering costs utilities the full retail price when they would otherwise pay the wholesale price. Retail may d be ~25 cents ( I never look at my own bills) when the wholesale price is often less than 8 cents. How does that "retard rate increases"?

mm

Idk. I was thinking ultimately over time it will increase their available supply.

 

[DomB]

That 8 cents is an average.

Solar on your roof is most productive during peak demand when the grid fires up the less cost effective supply - Nat Gas turbines, Oil etc. This is why Demand Response is so important on the usage side. I told my wife to stop using the slow cooker during the middle of the day when the AC is blasting

I have 3 time sets on my rates and can trade my own credits across them.

Most of my excess I trade 2-1 for dead of night to charge.

I get some excess in super peak that I could trade 4-1 but I am sure I will need it over summer.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

That 8 cents is an average.

Solar on your roof is most productive during peak demand when the grid fires up the less cost effective supply - Nat Gas turbines, Oil etc. This is why Demand Response is so important on the usage side. I told my wife to stop using the slow cooker during the middle of the day when the AC is blasting

Wholesale prices are published at nyiso dot com, so you should be able to prove that with actual numbers. Right now the wholesale energy price is around 25 to 26 cents depending where you are, so that's about the same as the retail price. That doesn't leave any margin capacity or other reliability costs, or for distribution costs, so solar net metering is still driving retail prices up.

FWIW I believe I ma the only utility expert ever who publicly supported net metering. I did it because net metering provided a subsidy that was needed to build out solar capacity, and because it completely eliminated the risk to homeowners who installed solar. I wanted a similar deal for my clients.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

I have 3 time sets on my rates and can trade my own credits across them.

Most of my excess I trade 2-1 for dead of night to charge.

I get some excess in super peak that I could trade 4-1 but I am sure I will need it over summer.

I retired before they started doing that stuff. I don't even want to know how it works. I can already feel my happy retirement buzz starting to dissipate from all this.

mm

 

[DomB]

I retired before they started doing that stuff. I don't even want to know how it works. I can already feel my happy retirement buzz starting to dissipate from all this.

mm

Painful until you figure it out. It also means that probably my electric goes up 30-50 percent because of ev but I will not have a bill again other than 20 per month connection charge.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

price is around 25 to 26 cents depending where you are

Lol it's 75 and gorgeous outside. I have the attic fan on with the windows open.

I used to be a Load Forecaster for retail desks another lifetime ago.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

Also Google "California Duck Curve". Solar has already drastically altered electricity markets.

 

[MarzNC]

Woah- Stellantus said they are bringing a 25k Jeep to the US. This could be quite interesting. So glad makers are finally going to entry price points.

Interesting for sure.

April 2024

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/29/stellantis-affordable-jeep-ev.html

" . . .
[CEO] Tavares said Wednesday that the company expects to achieve cost parity between its all-electric vehicles and traditional internal combustion engine vehicles in the next “three years, max” to better compete with the growing “China invasion” of affordable EVs.

“It’s a very challenging period, very chaotic, very Darwinian,” Tavares said regarding the Chinese competitors, EV transition and potential consolidation of the automotive industry. “We are in the storm, and this storm is going to last a few years.”
. . ."

 

[Tjf1967]

Wholesale prices are published at nyiso dot com, so you should be able to prove that with actual numbers. Right now the wholesale energy price is around 25 to 26 cents depending where you are, so that's about the same as the retail price. That doesn't leave any margin capacity or other reliability costs, or for distribution costs, so solar net metering is still driving retail prices up.

FWIW I believe I ma the only utility expert ever who publicly supported net metering. I did it because net metering provided a subsidy that was needed to build out solar capacity, and because it completely eliminated the risk to homeowners who installed solar. I wanted a similar deal for my clients.

mm

Retail prices are around 17 cents. Wholesale prices are 8 cents. When you send back to the grid you are not getting retail prices.

What am I missing?

 

[DomB]

I am not particularly pro Elon Musk (for example I believe there are many emotional circuits not wired correctly or damaged from his experiences that infect his decision making in a way that hurts people and is not efficient), but should we consider he has a point that folks opposing his pay package have made outsized returns versus the market, and at the time he took the package, he expressly tied his risk to that of the companies success?

Elon Musk roasts shareholder group that got rich off Tesla stock -- but opposes $56b payday

Tesla CEO Elon Musk roasted a shareholder group that is opposing his $56 billion pay package yet multiplied their investment due to his leadership.

www.teslarati.com

PS I saw notes about voting or not voting a certain way. Because of Tesla's weight in the S&P, anyone who has any 401k with some kind of domestic index likely has some indirect ownership in Tesla.