ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[Harvey]

And yes Ev demand is growing, however the rate of growth is both decelerating and decelerating more quickly than was expected.

Like inflation, prices aren't coming down, they are just rising at a slower rate.

I'm learning.

China and Europe are big drivers. In China, one of every three new cars are EV. Europe 1/5 and the US 1/10. Those three countries/regions are responsible for 95% of EV sales.

All kinds of stuff is subsidized.

Government Subsidies for Business

Many industries rely on government assistance in both good times and bad. What are the benefits of these programs, and how do they impact the consumer?

www.investopedia.com

 

[Campgottagopee]

No doubt our government subsides more than any of us really know. My point is let the manufactures bare the burden of moving their own product with incentives instead of tax breaks. Let's see them stand on their own performance. Admittedly people here have purchased EVs due to tax breaks and no sales tax.
I bought and installed heat pumps. I bought them solely based on performance. I did get a tax break but didn't find out about that until after they were installed and paid for.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

Let's see them stand on their own performance. Admittedly people here have purchased EVs due to tax breaks and no sales tax.

How do you feel about the $14 Billion we give in subsidies to the oil and gas industry every year? Even if all 1.2 Million EVs sold in the 2023 qualified for the full $7500 tax credit that's still only $10 Billion total.

I'd be fine with letting EVs stand on their own performance if ICE did too. And if we really want to be fair about it we should be paying for the C02 we release into the atmosphere, both at the pump and at the smoke stack. "Let the market decide" what they want to drive when everything is priced according to it's true cost.

The unfortunate truth is a carbon tax is political untenable, so we go with carrots instead of sticks to try to even the playing field.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Yeah, I knew you would say that. I'm speaking of individual retail transactions, much different than what you're speaking of.

The government wants us to think EVs are the future and they're not.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

Not gonna pretend I understand all of this, and there's a bit of smoke and mirrors around what car this battery is actually attached to, but China again at the forefront:

620 Miles of Range With 370 Mi Charging in 10 Minutes

That's pretty damn close to ICE for filling up on a road trip. Not that you'd ever really have to with 620 miles of range.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

CATL LFP is currently the cheaper, less dense battery option that Tesla uses on it's base models. The advantage though is that it "likes" being at 100%

 

[DomB]

PS I think at least some of us are starting to just yell at each other.

 

[Tjf1967]

No doubt our government subsides more than any of us really know. My point is let the manufactures bare the burden of moving their own product with incentives instead of tax breaks. Let's see them stand on their own performance. Admittedly people here have purchased EVs due to tax breaks and no sales tax.
I bought and installed heat pumps. I bought them solely based on performance. I did get a tax break but didn't find out about that until after they were installed and paid for.

This smells funny

 

[Campgottagopee]

Facebook Cofounder Says Tesla Has Committed "Consumer Fraud on a Massive Scale," Will End in Jail

Amidst a chaotic month for Tesla — even by its continuously plunging standards — Facebook co-founder Dustin Moskovitz has made some pretty dire predictions for the automaker, accusing it of commiting "consumer fraud on a massive scale." "This is Enron now, folks," Moskovitz wrote on Threads...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Peter Minde]

Even if I were to buy an EV, I don't want no stinkin' full self drive. When it goes wrong, it goes wrong big time.