ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[Deez]

Just an observation:
Columbus Day weekend - that Friday ...heading up the Northway, Exit 25 Stewarts - they have like ~8 electric plug ins. They were all full and there were other cars waiting.

 

[Harvey]

Increments that don't take where you need to go don't count. That's where environmentalists are now. They really want 100% EV transportation. Hybrids only take you halfway, and even some of the efficiency gain goes back to more driving in bigger vehicles. You never get 100% hybrid adoption either because you still have the gasoline supply infrastructure.

I'm holding out for full EV, but that's not possible for me yet. Meanwhile I'm gonna enjoy my stick shift. Manual chokes are just a happy memory.

mm

Each of my last 5 cars, all CRVs, got bigger. They also got improved mileage. Truth is I never wanted a bigger car.

I had a manual choke on a 1971 Volvo 142. It was very useful, but new cars don't need it.

 

[riverc0il]

Increments that don't take where you need to go don't count. That's where environmentalists are now.

The majority of the country can only buy used, cannot afford a new vehicle, and definitely cannot afford a new EV. I wonder how these environmentalists think they are going to get most people into an EV, if not by increments.

These folks probably do not live in apartments nor condos (at least not at their primary residence...) or rural areas that lack EV infrastructure. It is easy to think everyone should drive an EV when you yourself can easily afford one (and have a living situation that allows you to charge one).

Increments are needed. The government can help subsidize and drive private demand for building infrastructure. But until battery tech evolves to bring new EV prices down... until every fuel station has super fast charging EV plugs... and until the average citizen can afford to make the jump... the "all-in" approach is fantasy.

We just are not there in terms of tech, yet. And pumping resources into EV batteries may have done more total harm than good by limiting the supply of HEVs (and driving up prices up). I am a case in point. I would have preferred an HEV (no way to plug in at home). But I got sick of the car marketplace and bought a new ICE instead.

 

[MC2]

The majority of the country can only buy used, cannot afford a new vehicle, and definitely cannot afford a new EV.

We just need cheaper cars & cheaper batteries.

I am a case in point. I would have preferred an HEV (no way to plug in at home). But I got sick of the car marketplace and bought a new ICE instead.

I did the same for the same reason.

 

[Harvey]

I got lucky, if you don't count totaling my 2017. My new CRV was actually available and unsold the day after my crash, and we put 1000 down on it sight unseen, and then drove up to buy it. It was a miracle really, considering the market at the time.

---

I had a dumb question about my new CRV. Does it have a driveshaft? I didn't even know. I bent down, but not far enough to tell.

I googled it and found this from Car and Driver:

"It's rated at a compelling 40 mpg combined (43 city and 36 highway). This is possible because the rear-drive system, unlike some Toyota hybrids we can name, employs a rear driveshaft off the transmission in lieu of a rear-mounted electric motor."

Interesting. C&D thinks the driveshaft is somehow better than an electric motor in the back. I wonder about the pros and cons of each system.

 

[Harvey]

The majority of the country can only buy used, cannot afford a new vehicle, and definitely cannot afford a new EV. I wonder how these environmentalists think they are going to get most people into an EV, if not by increments.

These folks probably do not live in apartments nor condos (at least not at their primary residence...) or rural areas that lack EV infrastructure. It is easy to think everyone should drive an EV when you yourself can easily afford one (and have a living situation that allows you to charge one).

Increments are needed. The government can help subsidize and drive private demand for building infrastructure. But until battery tech evolves to bring new EV prices down... until every fuel station has super fast charging EV plugs... and until the average citizen can afford to make the jump... the "all-in" approach is fantasy.

We just are not there in terms of tech, yet. And pumping resources into EV batteries may have done more total harm than good by limiting the supply of HEVs (and driving up prices up). I am a case in point. I would have preferred an HEV (no way to plug in at home). But I got sick of the car marketplace and bought a new ICE instead.

This.

 

[DomB]

The majority of the country can only buy used, cannot afford a new vehicle, and definitely cannot afford a new EV. I wonder how these environmentalists think they are going to get most people into an EV, if not by increments.

These folks probably do not live in apartments nor condos (at least not at their primary residence...) or rural areas that lack EV infrastructure. It is easy to think everyone should drive an EV when you yourself can easily afford one (and have a living situation that allows you to charge one).

Increments are needed. The government can help subsidize and drive private demand for building infrastructure. But until battery tech evolves to bring new EV prices down... until every fuel station has super fast charging EV plugs... and until the average citizen can afford to make the jump... the "all-in" approach is fantasy.

We just are not there in terms of tech, yet. And pumping resources into EV batteries may have done more total harm than good by limiting the supply of HEVs (and driving up prices up). I am a case in point. I would have preferred an HEV (no way to plug in at home). But I got sick of the car marketplace and bought a new ICE instead.

I agree with most of this. I would like to just note that there are affordable new EVs (a pretty nice Chevy bolt after rebates is in the range of 25k) - while still understanding that does not mean the majority of the country could just go and afford to buy a new car for 25k. Part of the issue is that there is a massive car culture. Consistent with our general overconsumption (including myself in this) is we buy more than we need.

Yes, some people need really big trucks to do certain jobs. Many of us (including me) could actually go do almost whatever we wanted with something like a bolt (with a bit more range) and a small hitch trailer on the back of our car.

In 5 years, there will be hopefully the start of rolling used ev cars, but we are probably 10 years away from good range, more affordable used evs.

 

[Brownski]

Part of the issue is that there is a massive car culture.

Not an issue for me.

 

[Tjf1967]

I think affordable EV are here in the used car market. With the miss information about batteries degrading the user car market for EV is plentiful and cheap. And you still get a credit.

 

[jasonwx]

just read GM is delaying the Silvarado EV until 2026....I guess they see Ford's Lightning dying on the vine..