ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

Harvey said:
I was told by a mechanic that the batteries (hybrids and EVs) can be recycled once (which is certainly significant) and then they are done. Not sure if this is true.

Is there a market yet? How many teslas have used up their batteries? Our 2012 Prius is still on the originals.
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They can be re-used for grid connected storage. I'm don't know how or if the minerals are recycled. It seems like that should be possible, but maybe it's too costly.
Vehicle to grid connections and grid connected battery storage can increases the electric system's capability to use renewables. That's one reason why environmentalists are all about EVs but not hybrids. They want a complete transformation of the energy system, not a big increase in MPG. It only makes sense if you believe that fossil fuels are an existential threat to civilization.

mm
 
Milo Maltbie said:
If you're one edge behind, I'm 3 or 4 behind. I'm still driving stick.

A hybrid seems like all the problems of ICE with most of the problems with EVs. Most of my miles are on the Northway, and I almost never get into traffic jams. There's not much advantage to a hybrid for all highway driving, and I don't even have a place to plug one in. If I had to drive the LIE everyday I'd want an EV, but for now I'm sticking with ICE. YMMV
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Dude.

First things first. I stopped driving a stick when I couldn't get one anymore in my car of choice. It was not really a religious thing. The last CRV that had a stick had a lower EPA MPG rating then the auto did.

Your evaluation of hybrids is (surprise!) overly negative. What are the problems of ICE? If any have to do with gas consumption I call BS. Hybrids use 25% less gas. They have no driving range issues, no charging issues. They finish quality is just as good as ICE.

If you drive all highway get an ICE with a small motor. NOBODY ever said any ONE KIND of car is the best for all use cases.

I have no need for a helicopter, but that doesn't mean they are useless.

If I had to drive the LIE every day, I'd kill myself. But I'd choose a hybrid for the drive.
 
Harvey said:
If I had to drive the LIE every day, I'd kill myself.
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This is hilarious! In 1986 I did my college internship out on LI. It was then, that I knew city living wasn't for me. I was sitting on the LIE, could see my exit, and it took me over an.hour to get there! FK that!
 
Milo Maltbie said:
If you're one edge behind, I'm 3 or 4 behind. I'm still driving stick.

A hybrid seems like all the problems of ICE with most of the problems with EVs. Most of my miles are on the Northway, and I almost never get into traffic jams. There's not much advantage to a hybrid for all highway driving, and I don't even have a place to plug one in. If I had to drive the LIE everyday I'd want an EV, but for now I'm sticking with ICE. YMMV

mm
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Hybrids might be the best compromise for most people - you get the electric for 90% of your daily driving miles while not lugging around a gigantic battery for range, a/c, heat and all the other electrics to run the car.
 
I don't think I was negative at all. There is currently a growing consensus among environmentalists that if the climate is to be stabilized, the transportation and power systems must be completely de-carbonized. EVs are a necessary part of that, hybrids don't even get you halfway there.
In my own unique situation, hybrids make no economic sense. They don't even have any virtue signaling value anymore. YMMV

And I know stick shift makes no sense anymore, but I like it. I still miss roll up windows, and I wouldn't mind a manual choke like my first car had.

mm
 
PXL_20231018_190750200.jpg


Got an update last night. This was added. Lot of information that I like to look at.
 
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Milo Maltbie said:
I don't think I was negative at all. There is currently a growing consensus among environmentalists that if the climate is to be stabilized, the transportation and power systems must be completely de-carbonized. EVs are a necessary part of that, hybrids don't even get you halfway there.
In my own unique situation, hybrids make no economic sense. They don't even have any virtue signaling value anymore. YMMV

And I know stick shift makes no sense anymore, but I like it. I still miss roll up windows, and I wouldn't mind a manual choke like my first car had.
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Transportation has to be decarbonized, EVs are necessary, but forget the hybrid and oh by the way I'm driving my manual choke ICE because... I like it? Increments don't count?

Sorry I said you were being negative. A cheap shot.
 
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