ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[MarzNC]

Anyone still curious about the F150 Lightning? The Aussie ex-pat active on the Aussie ski forum finally got his in July 2023. The wait was quite long because he lives in Canada. He had to buy the XLT at a premium price and not the Pro because the Pro wasn't made available in Canada early on. Here's what he has to say (from PM thread with his permission):

Mid-October 2023
"It arrived in late July. Love it so far, best truck I've ever owned. Home charging is simple and cheap, haven't needed to do a lot of public charging but no fails yet. BC is EV country, expensive gas and cheap hydro power. People have been buying a lot of EVs so we have pretty good charger networks. I did a 400 mile road trip to Sun Peaks last weekend, smooth sailing all the way. Charging costs were a little under $30 US.

* * *

I've been using the Lightning in my construction business, general tools and lumber hauler, plus personal use. It tows tool trailers as well as my 19 ft boat. Excellent tow vehicle because of the seamless torque, available at any speed. Towing range is less for sure, varies with the weight and aero shape of the tow rig. Doesn't matter with the work trailers, distances are short since we work within a 45 minute radius from town. Towing the boat to our cabin at the coast is a once a year trip so an extra 20-30 minute stop each way is not a big deal. Almost all my work driving is covered by charging at home.

The savings are substantial. That trip to the coast costs $200 in gas but only $40 for charging. It would be even less if I could plug in at the parking spot while we are at the island cabin. For business operations, my running costs are sitting at 3.2 cents per mile. The Silverado gas half ton is costing 30 cents per mile, just for gas alone. Oil changes and maintenance take that to about 33 cents per mile. Maintenance costs for the Lightning are minimal: annual safety inspection and cabin air filter change.

Right now we are tracking to save US$4500 annually over 15,000 miles driven, based on current gas price at $4.80/gallon and electricity at $0.082/kWh. Cost of vehicle was within a few hundred dollars of an equivalently equipped EcoBoost F150, no penalty there."

 

[Harvey]

$4.80/gallon

Some tax in there I bet.

Eventually they will figure a way to tax the electric.

 

[x10003q]

Anyone still curious about the F150 Lightning? The Aussie ex-pat active on the Aussie ski forum finally got his in July 2023. The wait was quite long because he lives in Canada. He had to buy the XLT at a premium price and not the Pro because the Pro wasn't made available in Canada early on. Here's what he has to say (from PM thread with his permission):

Mid-October 2023
"It arrived in late July. Love it so far, best truck I've ever owned. Home charging is simple and cheap, haven't needed to do a lot of public charging but no fails yet. BC is EV country, expensive gas and cheap hydro power. People have been buying a lot of EVs so we have pretty good charger networks. I did a 400 mile road trip to Sun Peaks last weekend, smooth sailing all the way. Charging costs were a little under $30 US.

* * *

I've been using the Lightning in my construction business, general tools and lumber hauler, plus personal use. It tows tool trailers as well as my 19 ft boat. Excellent tow vehicle because of the seamless torque, available at any speed. Towing range is less for sure, varies with the weight and aero shape of the tow rig. Doesn't matter with the work trailers, distances are short since we work within a 45 minute radius from town. Towing the boat to our cabin at the coast is a once a year trip so an extra 20-30 minute stop each way is not a big deal. Almost all my work driving is covered by charging at home.

The savings are substantial. That trip to the coast costs $200 in gas but only $40 for charging. It would be even less if I could plug in at the parking spot while we are at the island cabin. For business operations, my running costs are sitting at 3.2 cents per mile. The Silverado gas half ton is costing 30 cents per mile, just for gas alone. Oil changes and maintenance take that to about 33 cents per mile. Maintenance costs for the Lightning are minimal: annual safety inspection and cabin air filter change.

Right now we are tracking to save US$4500 annually over 15,000 miles driven, based on current gas price at $4.80/gallon and electricity at $0.082/kWh. Cost of vehicle was within a few hundred dollars of an equivalently equipped EcoBoost F150, no penalty there."

This is a nice story but it has one major mixed up parameter. The writer is comparing a light duty (1/4 ton) F150Electric with a heavy duty (1/2ton) Sliverado 2500. These are very different pickups. If he treats the F150 Electric as if it is a 1/2 ton truck, F150 will fall apart in about 35k-50k miles. The Silverado 2500 might get 14mpg combined. You can find Silverado 1500 (1/4ton, like his F150) 4wd pickups that get 19mpg combined.

Using the writer's numbers, we can see how he gets to saving $4500.
At 15,000 mile per year:
The F150 electric (68MPGe combined) using his very low $0.082/kWh, fuel costs about $600/yr.
The 1/2ton Silverado (14mpg) using his very high $4.80/gal, fuel costs $5142/year.
That gets us to the writer's $4500 savings.

However, if I use my NJ PSEG electric price of $.2080/kWh , the F150e costs $1550/yr
If I use the NJ local regular gas price of $3.30/gal, the 1/2 ton Silverado costs $3536/yr.
Now the difference is $2000, way less than the $4500.
If I use the 1/4 ton Silverado (matching the 1/4 F150), fuel costs $2607/yr or only $1100 more than the F150 electric/ year.
The F150 electric can cost $10k or more than a 1/4 ton or 1/2 ton pickup with a similar package of options. If you are going to save money, you need to do calculations for your own location.

 

[MarzNC]

This is a nice story but it has one major mixed up parameter. The writer is comparing a light duty (1/4 ton) F150Electric with a heavy duty (1/2ton) Sliverado 2500. These are very different pickups. If he treats the F150 Electric as if it is a 1/2 ton truck, F150 will fall apart in about 35k-50k miles. The Silverado 2500 might get 14mpg combined. You can find Silverado 1500 (1/4ton, like his F150) 4wd pickups that get 19mpg combined.

My impression is that when he decided to get the Lightning, he was determined to go EV if at all possible. He was willing to wait a long time. He compared the purchase to the EcoBoost F150 as part of the decision process.

If I use the 1/4 ton Silverado (matching the 1/4 F150), fuel costs $2607/yr or only $1100 less than the F150 electric/ year.
The F150 electric costs can cost $10k or more than a 1/4 ton or 1/2 ton pickup with a similar package of options. If you are going to save money, you need to do calculations for your own location.

Yep. Everyone considering an EV truck is in different situations and has different priorities.

 

[MarzNC]

The writer is comparing a light duty (1/4 ton) F150Electric with a heavy duty (1/2ton) Sliverado 2500.

What the Lightning owner used before was not a Silverado 2500. It's a Silverado 1500 that's still in his work fleet. The Lightning XLT is his personal truck and work truck.

October 17
"
. . . an apples to apples comparison here. I've never needed 3/4 or 1 ton vehicles in my business. I wanted something with the same capabilities as my half ton Silverado 1500 and the Lightning delivers: both have very similar towing (10,000 lb) and bed capacity (2000 lb).

Lifetime fuel use to date on the Silverado 5.3L V8 at 140,000 miles is 15.7 mpg, doing the same duties as the Lightning. Energy consumption to date on the Lightning is 2.5 mi/kWh, which according to the EPA equates to 84.2 mpg-e. Based on the wide gap between electricity and gas prices in BC, my operating costs are fully one tenth of the gas Silverado (which still in the work fleet; we sold the oldest truck, a truly gas guzzling 1998 Ram 1500). "

 

[jasonwx]

Ford is in trouble with all of their EV's ...They just aren't selling.. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the lightning..

 

[Campgottagopee]

Ford is in trouble with all of their EV's ...They just aren't selling.. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the lightning..

There are countless Lightnings at auctions --- guys don't even look at them anymore, same goes for any EV as they are taboo. Heck, some auctions won't even allow you to arbitrate an EV. They're all sold as-is. Good luck with that!

 

[jasonwx]

There are countless Lightnings at auctions --- guys don't even look at them anymore, same goes for any EV as they are taboo. Heck, some auctions won't even allow you to arbitrate an EV. They're all sold as-is. Good luck with that!

lets not forget that Ford has the highest cost of recalls in the industry...

 

[MarzNC]

October 2023 is when Hyundai, Kia, and BMW announced agreements to move to the NACS standard. By some time in 2024, there should be far more charging options in New England for non-Tesla EVs. BMW won't be on board from an operational standpoint until 2025.

October 17, 2023

BMW Group Switching To Tesla's NACS Port In North America From 2025 Onward

The list of carmakers that haven't yet announced a switch to Tesla's NACS is growing thinner, with VW Group, Toyota, and Stellantis being the biggest names.

insideevs.com

The Ioniq guy drives in New England and has times when he tows an RV, but he doesn't do long trips very often.

October 5, 2023

 

[Tjf1967]

lets not forget that Ford has the highest cost of recalls in the industry...

Ford ice vehicles suck I can only imagine what their evs' are like. As a ev driver I can say it's not as rosy as the ev industry portrays it to be. I can also say that most people could save 50% on their commuting costs if they switched over to an ev and installed a charger at their house. That lighting driving in BC is not wrong...

Asia is going to take the American car companies to task as EV transition moves along