ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

CRV 2023 Hybrid got 40mpg over it's first 10000 miles.

Somebody reset the Lifetime A Trip (grrrrrr). Over the next 2000 we are getting 41.

Basically if you have to take one trip to the mountains per month (highway, plus mtn driving) you can probably squeek out 40. If you never do any highway you'll get 45.

This winter, with cold temps and LOTS of highway I am guessing it will be 35-38. We will see.

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Toyota Venza 2023 Hybrid has 2000 miles on it and is measuring about 45 or 46. That is actually significantly better than the CRV because my wife drives 100 miles highway, twice a week.
 
I recently reset the m/kWh and mpg at 20,000 miles on the 2022 RAV4 Prime XSE. I think I last did resets in January 2023. That was after getting back from the Colorado ski trip in December and I didn't have any multi-day driving trips planned until after ski season was over. Decided to start over at 20,000 miles. Drove about 12,000 miles since the last reset. Had 45.1 mpg and 2.9 m/kWh. On the drive to Lake Placid in late August, mpg went down from 44.7 to 44.2 after about 1600 miles of high speed highway driving in HV mode. Average HV mpg includes EV-only miles. For the summer when I was at home in June and July, mpg was usually around 44.5. We have enough Interstate highways in the Triangle metro area that I end up doing a little driving over 65 mph when running errands or going to events or appointments.

The way my daughter drives the 2021 R4P SE, she gets 2.9 m/kWh too. Her commute for work is about 30 miles round trip on 2-lane roads, all EV. During the first year when I was experimenting with that car using EV, I managed to get to 3.2 m/kWh a few times. That was by trying to remember to change to HV if I was going to be driving over 60 mph.
 
I am at 9,336 miles and am very impressed. 5,000 of that was on snow tires. This is pretty high mileage for me (since early February). Only issue recently is squeezing into a parking garage with the roof top tent on. I ll take that off by November and put the snow tires back on.

Our other car is 9 years old and has 20,000 miles. Maybe my son’s car when he starts driving in 4-5 years. At that point I d like to get the cheapest shortest range good ev, something like the bolt super compact suv thing.
 
At some point I should calculate my charge costs. I would have to look at 3 different apps (ChargePoint for home, EA, and shell recharge, ok one Tesla charge for fun when they opened the one in red hill ny) which is annoying. I would say 80-90 percent home charging that amounts to $15 for 260-300 miles of range.

Since April we only high speed charged 2x as we leave LI less in nice weather.

The other note is without the roof top tent, I am getting above epa rating for ‘mpg’. I drove how I want so that may be a function of traffic in my region - the car is way efficient in stop and go or even higher speeds with a car 5 -6 lengths in front due to aero.

EPA says 274 with my tires. I am seeing between 280-308.

The new dual motors I think get up to 331 on the standard wheels (I have the 20 at wheels which are less efficient).

We have our solar permits in but my town is notoriously slow (a friend was telling me the towns out east that are famous for being difficult are way easier than mine).
 
EPA says 274 with my tires. I am seeing between 280-308.

The new dual motors I think get up to 331
Dom are these numbers referring to miles per charge?
 
Dom are these numbers referring to miles per charge?
Yes, I should have clarified. It is basically 'a tank of gas'. The car then has a mpge (miles per gallon equivalent) that is rated around 69 miles per gallon equivalent to a gas car.

What you see with Rivian, is that they appear to have made a choice to underpromise on epa range (Porsche has done similar, with I think stated range of 220 or 240 but often getting 260-280), versus Tesla which ppl say overstates real life range through gaming EPA test by a few percent.

Detail:

So if someone's Durango or that new Jeep thing (I've driven next both, same size or smaller than my car) and they have a range of 400 miles, you would compare dollar by dollar by taking their fill-up cost and multiplying by 0.75. That product compares to my 'tank' cost on an apples-to-apples range basis (of course you have to figure in than around 10% of my charges are high speed, but that is still cheaper than gas).

Rivian's range is a little hard to figure out because they are shifting from the less efficient quad motors (316 down to 274 EPA test depending on tire size) that my car has to more efficient dual motors (I think 331 down to about about 302 with my tires on the low end). And to add confusion, they are coming out with a bigger battery pack that (I think) they say gets 390 range on the duals.

All that said, even though I am supposed to be getting 274 epa range, without trying I have been getting the 280-308 I referred to. And the 280 was a trip to Gore below freezing. I even started driving 'pretty fast' at the last 50 miles before the charger to get the battery as low as possible and had (between miles and range) gotten to the 280 number - again below freezing.

In my personal experience, on the cold side you get pretty much no penalty above 28-32 degrees. At fairly cold and being 'cheap' with heat I had a 7 % penalty, and then just doing whatever I wanted, toasty as a marshmellow, 20-25% hit in the cold. Now keep in mind that 'cold' was like 15-25 degrees. I realize it gets much colder in some of the places we drive.

That said, there are a lot of hacks to increase efficiency in the cold (TJ): the big one, before a trip, keep your car plugged in, run the heat and the heated surfaces (wheel and seats). This does two things: gets the heat up to retain it for an hour or two and actually warms the battery. When the battery is warm (even in cold weather) it functions just like it would at moderate weather until, of course, due to physics, it gets cold. Practially that means like an hour or two before your range goes down.

On the flip side, if you go for a short 10 minute drive in the cold, you could see 50% less range if you do not preheat and take these states because the battery will be inefficient while it is cold and it sure won't heat up in 10 minutes of driving (there are youtube videos by 'Rivian Dad' and I think Kyle from out of spec on this).
 
I'm sick of all this BS, back to the drawing board for me:


You just can't beat that Lean Burn engine.

And you know it. I'm lookin' at you @DomB

🤠
 
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