DomB
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- Joined
- Aug 25, 2020
That is a very smart thing to do. Not practical for me.
ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions
- Thread starter DomB
- Start date
DomB
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- Aug 25, 2020
Time to make the donuts.
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Tjf1967
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- Jul 21, 2020
I think you can preheat it while it's plugged. It uses energy but you will leave preheated with a full charge.
DomB
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- Aug 25, 2020
Things went well today. Very thankful my son came with me. May post a trip report (Harv I am allowed to do that as Gore is my home mountain). Only one glitch. To be continued.
DomB
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- Joined
- Aug 25, 2020
Short answer is they are getting better at this. 1. If you navigate to a charger it preheats or cools as needed. 2. Before leaving you can trick the system by upping charge before you leave, both of which I did today. Will post.
But yes they should do this. I think it is competing with all the priorities. They are putting out a good product from what I see so far (limited of course).
DomB
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- Joined
- Aug 25, 2020
Hello! Here is the update from Belleayre today. I was thinking of posting with pictures, but the pictures ended up being pictures of my son, him and me, or screenshots of the consumption or car charging so did not quite fit. This is the summary of the first 'ski trip' in the Rivian. It passed with flying colors.
The summary in terms of compromise on consumption, comfort, and psychology is that I learned alot; even in fairly cold situations, you can deal with range issues; also the step up in technology (which admittedly many recent vehicles have, makes driving so much more pleasurable, especially when combined with the ride, handling, and performance. At least temporarily, my range anxiety is comforted.
My one glitch - using the 'Driver Plus' function, which basically drives for you, but only on mapped highways, I got put in what is called 'Rivian jail' through no fault of my own. On the cross bronx, the system got confused by an overpass (a somewhat common issue on these systems) and demanded I take control of the car. I did, but I failed to hit up on the driver stalk to acknowledge I was doing that. I think the Rivian thinks I refused to take control, and it began to slow down to start an emergency stop procedure. At that point, I simply drove - no biggy, and no one around me probably noticed a thing as it was seem-less. However, when I got onto 87, I was told by text on the driver's interface that I could not use Driver Plus until my next drive. This is level 2 autonomous driving.
It was no biggie, as the adaptive cruise control works almost as well, especially since I had nothing like anything approaching this functionality 2 weeks ago.
Separately, I may be crazy, but I think Glen Plake was in front of me and my son on the singles line at Belleayre Express this morning. Once I said I wasn't going to make a big deal and was not interested in taking a picture he stopped denying he was Glen Plake : ) It didn't hurt that I told him I was there the super bowl sunday he was at Platty and saw his truck (pre-covid i guess? - never did see the man that day). If it wasn't Glen Plake, I am sure that dude has a funny story to tell now.
DETAIL
Consumption and Rivian's guessometer - charging overnight at about 20 mph of range, we got to 88% charge as we rolled out of the drive way at exactly 5:50 a.m., with a stated range of 266. With noted temperatures between 18 and 32 on the way up, always driving over the speed limit unless it was a country road with a slower car in front but capping myself at 70 mph except when (safely) behind a faster tall vehicle, we got 247 out of the stated 266, or about 92.9%. I was pretty 'cheap' with heating: we kept the seats heated and when wanted the steering wheel, but only put on the cabin heat when we felt pretty cold. That is probably why we got so close to stated range in pretty cold weather. I did notice that when the temperature was about 20 degrees, there was less of a range hit.
Also keep in mind that I am on snow tires, and the computer is providing range based on the factory All Terrain wheels, which are probably a few pounds lighter each than the snows.
Very interestingly, even though the car told me at 5:50 a.m. I had 266 miles of range o 88% (equal to 305 miles of range) and the drive to Belle was 144 miles, the guessometer (that guesses your arrival range and charge), guessed that we would arrive at Belle with 82 miles of range, meaning the Rivian's logic thought I would lose 40 miles instead of the 19 miles I lost (perhaps because it anticipated more liberal heating of the cabin).
We arrived at Belle with 27% charge and, you guessed it, 82 miles of range. Upon arrival my son was teasing me for being so worried about range. But I knew there weren't many high speed chargers in the Catskills (essentially none that were practical) so I just decided to ski and have fun.
Booting up and skiing
Once the attendant told me there was no level 2 charger (about 20 mph, would have been nice), I closed my gaped mouth and went to the lot that you can walk onto the top of e beginner quad from. We booted up on the tailgate of the Rivian, which was convenient, and I triple checked that I locked the door, as open doors lead to a bit of battery drain that I didn't think I could afford.
I've left out the detail, but once my son woke up about an hour before the mountain, we had great fun. He put the passenger seat into a pretty comfortably, nearly flat state, and were blasting music that he picked, except when I cut off annoying songs involving body-induced sounds. It was good quality time together; I really appreciated it because the purpose of the trip was to test the drive up and down more than to ski, as I am brining up 35 or Boy Scouts to the mountain next weekend.
As those at the mountain saw, there was a mix of conditions, some dust on crust, some very nice corduroy, and some manmade that was spread out and quite nice in some places and in others that annoying scratchy stuff. We stuck to Belleayre express and 7, ignoring the lower area and Gondola. Turned out to be the right move as we were told the mountain was sold out. After about three hours skiing, we left to test the return trip.
Returning in and EV with 88 miles of range and 29% charge - range anxiety rears its head
When we left, I think from temp increases (now at 32), range started at 88 miles, up from 82. The car was parked facing south, and it has a glass roof, so I wonder how much it just warmed up. After skiing, of course, it felt very warm, and neither of us wanted to put on the heat or heated seats.
I was immediately worried about range. My son, 12, reasonably logical, was not worried at all, which I thought was odd. Funny thing, I can deal with a lot, but him not worrying made things much easier for me. Frankly, I was worried. I had two options - Electrify America chargers at 84 & 87, about 71 miles away (including a 350kw charger, which is super fast - if there were no amperage constraint and the Rivian had the proper voltage archictecture it could FILL in about 25 minutes -- but there are and the Rivian can't); and an EVolveNY charger in Lagrangeville NY 73 miles away (a 150kw charger). Neither was out of my way. Because I plan to rely on the NY chargers in the EVolveNY program, I opted for Lagrangeville (I'll call it 'EV' for short).
This is where my anxiety kicked in - I had a margin of error of about 15 miles, or 5% of charge in GOOD WEATHER. The good news is that the Rivian recognized the EV charger in its map. When it does that, it preheats or cools the battery to take the most efficient charge.
After son calming me with logic (even when I panic, I don't really panic), we arrived with 9% state of charge and 30 miles of range. We got a massive boost from going down hill. If you extended the efficiency we got from the top of Belleayre to the norway ski club, a 300 mile range battery would have generated 600 miles of range. It was fun to see the range tick backwards and the percentage go up a notch as the breaks absorbed energy, spun our motors in reverse, and sent power back to the battery. Woo hoo.
Being the researcher I am, I got the Shell ReCharge app, and preloaded it with $50. While charging at home is dirt cheap, Fast charging is ok but not cheap. Still likely cheaper than a comparably sized ICE like a Yukon. When I pulled up, a new Mercedes owner was in one stall; a Mercedes employee testing a smaller EV in another (didn't even pay attention to that one, it was not impressive). The Mercedes couple was nice; when the wife noted that the charger was not working, I was in luck as it worked through the app no problem. PS - the Mercedes employee was funny. He would not say anything nice about the Rivian (which has much better performance; admittedly the Mercedes has a nicer interior and a better charge curve) and was standoffish until I complemented him on the Mercedes' charge curve. Go figure. It is not like they are coke and pepsi or even competitors, but that's life.
Charge wise, it exceeded my expectations by far. The charger was limited to 150kw (so in theory it would completely fill the battery in a 83% of an hour). I opened the app, scan a QR code, plug in the charger, and it immediately went to 143kw, over very close to capacity. We went in to use the bathroom and grab food; for fun I put on a 20 minute charger. We ate on the tailgate, the timer went off, and we went to check the mileage. We got 135 miles in 27 minutes. Somehow the 150kw charger was pushing out 158kw when I unplugged. Go figure. That 27 minutes yielded 68 kw at a cost of $26.01 after tax, 135 miles, and 44% charge. Yes, relatively expensive, but I should be doing 90% or more of my charging in cheap/free environment. Electrify America is cheaper. We were charging at a rate of about 382 miles per hour when I stopped. At this point, the temp was warmer at 52 degrees, so I don't know what would have happened in colder temps.
Because we had much excess range, I switched to All Purpose, which I think made me want to drive more aggressively. Somewhat close to home, I jumped into sport mode, with max throttle response, stiff tune, and did a mini launch for my son to 40mph from a light. On snow tires (hopefully not damaging but, hey).
Other tidbits
1. Time with family is always time well spent. Thank you, son.
2. Driver Assistance is really cool. I don't think this is necessarily a Rivian thing, just me being 12 years behind.
3. Besides the catskills (which I can only guess is a political or turf issue) NYS is pretty well blanketed with EVolveNY chargers. Even the one I used was not out of my way, just 10 minutes on side roads that I would have never taken, crossing the hudson around New Paltz. At least the EVolveNY chargers were reliable here. And they don't seem to be as widely known yet. IF YOU ARE GOING TO HIGH SPEED CHARGE, GET THE APP FOR THE CHARGER.
4. The Meridian sound system is pretty insane; the drivetrain (so to speak) is well tuned, and even conserve has enough juice.
5. At least for now, my range anxiety is addressed. Going to Gore, there is an abundance of EVolveNY stations, including ones at the 40% mark, 50% mark, 60%mark 80% mark from my house to Gore.
6. Belleayre really needs to get some level 2 chargers. This is not the stone age. I could have picked up some juice skiing and not needed to charge on the way home : )
The summary in terms of compromise on consumption, comfort, and psychology is that I learned alot; even in fairly cold situations, you can deal with range issues; also the step up in technology (which admittedly many recent vehicles have, makes driving so much more pleasurable, especially when combined with the ride, handling, and performance. At least temporarily, my range anxiety is comforted.
My one glitch - using the 'Driver Plus' function, which basically drives for you, but only on mapped highways, I got put in what is called 'Rivian jail' through no fault of my own. On the cross bronx, the system got confused by an overpass (a somewhat common issue on these systems) and demanded I take control of the car. I did, but I failed to hit up on the driver stalk to acknowledge I was doing that. I think the Rivian thinks I refused to take control, and it began to slow down to start an emergency stop procedure. At that point, I simply drove - no biggy, and no one around me probably noticed a thing as it was seem-less. However, when I got onto 87, I was told by text on the driver's interface that I could not use Driver Plus until my next drive. This is level 2 autonomous driving.
It was no biggie, as the adaptive cruise control works almost as well, especially since I had nothing like anything approaching this functionality 2 weeks ago.
Separately, I may be crazy, but I think Glen Plake was in front of me and my son on the singles line at Belleayre Express this morning. Once I said I wasn't going to make a big deal and was not interested in taking a picture he stopped denying he was Glen Plake : ) It didn't hurt that I told him I was there the super bowl sunday he was at Platty and saw his truck (pre-covid i guess? - never did see the man that day). If it wasn't Glen Plake, I am sure that dude has a funny story to tell now.
DETAIL
Consumption and Rivian's guessometer - charging overnight at about 20 mph of range, we got to 88% charge as we rolled out of the drive way at exactly 5:50 a.m., with a stated range of 266. With noted temperatures between 18 and 32 on the way up, always driving over the speed limit unless it was a country road with a slower car in front but capping myself at 70 mph except when (safely) behind a faster tall vehicle, we got 247 out of the stated 266, or about 92.9%. I was pretty 'cheap' with heating: we kept the seats heated and when wanted the steering wheel, but only put on the cabin heat when we felt pretty cold. That is probably why we got so close to stated range in pretty cold weather. I did notice that when the temperature was about 20 degrees, there was less of a range hit.
Also keep in mind that I am on snow tires, and the computer is providing range based on the factory All Terrain wheels, which are probably a few pounds lighter each than the snows.
Very interestingly, even though the car told me at 5:50 a.m. I had 266 miles of range o 88% (equal to 305 miles of range) and the drive to Belle was 144 miles, the guessometer (that guesses your arrival range and charge), guessed that we would arrive at Belle with 82 miles of range, meaning the Rivian's logic thought I would lose 40 miles instead of the 19 miles I lost (perhaps because it anticipated more liberal heating of the cabin).
We arrived at Belle with 27% charge and, you guessed it, 82 miles of range. Upon arrival my son was teasing me for being so worried about range. But I knew there weren't many high speed chargers in the Catskills (essentially none that were practical) so I just decided to ski and have fun.
Booting up and skiing
Once the attendant told me there was no level 2 charger (about 20 mph, would have been nice), I closed my gaped mouth and went to the lot that you can walk onto the top of e beginner quad from. We booted up on the tailgate of the Rivian, which was convenient, and I triple checked that I locked the door, as open doors lead to a bit of battery drain that I didn't think I could afford.
I've left out the detail, but once my son woke up about an hour before the mountain, we had great fun. He put the passenger seat into a pretty comfortably, nearly flat state, and were blasting music that he picked, except when I cut off annoying songs involving body-induced sounds. It was good quality time together; I really appreciated it because the purpose of the trip was to test the drive up and down more than to ski, as I am brining up 35 or Boy Scouts to the mountain next weekend.
As those at the mountain saw, there was a mix of conditions, some dust on crust, some very nice corduroy, and some manmade that was spread out and quite nice in some places and in others that annoying scratchy stuff. We stuck to Belleayre express and 7, ignoring the lower area and Gondola. Turned out to be the right move as we were told the mountain was sold out. After about three hours skiing, we left to test the return trip.
Returning in and EV with 88 miles of range and 29% charge - range anxiety rears its head
When we left, I think from temp increases (now at 32), range started at 88 miles, up from 82. The car was parked facing south, and it has a glass roof, so I wonder how much it just warmed up. After skiing, of course, it felt very warm, and neither of us wanted to put on the heat or heated seats.
I was immediately worried about range. My son, 12, reasonably logical, was not worried at all, which I thought was odd. Funny thing, I can deal with a lot, but him not worrying made things much easier for me. Frankly, I was worried. I had two options - Electrify America chargers at 84 & 87, about 71 miles away (including a 350kw charger, which is super fast - if there were no amperage constraint and the Rivian had the proper voltage archictecture it could FILL in about 25 minutes -- but there are and the Rivian can't); and an EVolveNY charger in Lagrangeville NY 73 miles away (a 150kw charger). Neither was out of my way. Because I plan to rely on the NY chargers in the EVolveNY program, I opted for Lagrangeville (I'll call it 'EV' for short).
This is where my anxiety kicked in - I had a margin of error of about 15 miles, or 5% of charge in GOOD WEATHER. The good news is that the Rivian recognized the EV charger in its map. When it does that, it preheats or cools the battery to take the most efficient charge.
After son calming me with logic (even when I panic, I don't really panic), we arrived with 9% state of charge and 30 miles of range. We got a massive boost from going down hill. If you extended the efficiency we got from the top of Belleayre to the norway ski club, a 300 mile range battery would have generated 600 miles of range. It was fun to see the range tick backwards and the percentage go up a notch as the breaks absorbed energy, spun our motors in reverse, and sent power back to the battery. Woo hoo.
Being the researcher I am, I got the Shell ReCharge app, and preloaded it with $50. While charging at home is dirt cheap, Fast charging is ok but not cheap. Still likely cheaper than a comparably sized ICE like a Yukon. When I pulled up, a new Mercedes owner was in one stall; a Mercedes employee testing a smaller EV in another (didn't even pay attention to that one, it was not impressive). The Mercedes couple was nice; when the wife noted that the charger was not working, I was in luck as it worked through the app no problem. PS - the Mercedes employee was funny. He would not say anything nice about the Rivian (which has much better performance; admittedly the Mercedes has a nicer interior and a better charge curve) and was standoffish until I complemented him on the Mercedes' charge curve. Go figure. It is not like they are coke and pepsi or even competitors, but that's life.
Charge wise, it exceeded my expectations by far. The charger was limited to 150kw (so in theory it would completely fill the battery in a 83% of an hour). I opened the app, scan a QR code, plug in the charger, and it immediately went to 143kw, over very close to capacity. We went in to use the bathroom and grab food; for fun I put on a 20 minute charger. We ate on the tailgate, the timer went off, and we went to check the mileage. We got 135 miles in 27 minutes. Somehow the 150kw charger was pushing out 158kw when I unplugged. Go figure. That 27 minutes yielded 68 kw at a cost of $26.01 after tax, 135 miles, and 44% charge. Yes, relatively expensive, but I should be doing 90% or more of my charging in cheap/free environment. Electrify America is cheaper. We were charging at a rate of about 382 miles per hour when I stopped. At this point, the temp was warmer at 52 degrees, so I don't know what would have happened in colder temps.
Because we had much excess range, I switched to All Purpose, which I think made me want to drive more aggressively. Somewhat close to home, I jumped into sport mode, with max throttle response, stiff tune, and did a mini launch for my son to 40mph from a light. On snow tires (hopefully not damaging but, hey).
Other tidbits
1. Time with family is always time well spent. Thank you, son.
2. Driver Assistance is really cool. I don't think this is necessarily a Rivian thing, just me being 12 years behind.
3. Besides the catskills (which I can only guess is a political or turf issue) NYS is pretty well blanketed with EVolveNY chargers. Even the one I used was not out of my way, just 10 minutes on side roads that I would have never taken, crossing the hudson around New Paltz. At least the EVolveNY chargers were reliable here. And they don't seem to be as widely known yet. IF YOU ARE GOING TO HIGH SPEED CHARGE, GET THE APP FOR THE CHARGER.
4. The Meridian sound system is pretty insane; the drivetrain (so to speak) is well tuned, and even conserve has enough juice.
5. At least for now, my range anxiety is addressed. Going to Gore, there is an abundance of EVolveNY stations, including ones at the 40% mark, 50% mark, 60%mark 80% mark from my house to Gore.
6. Belleayre really needs to get some level 2 chargers. This is not the stone age. I could have picked up some juice skiing and not needed to charge on the way home : )
DomB
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2020
Ha! I should have added that if Belleayre was out of the Stone Age, I would not have had to stop on the way home to charge and therefore could have driven more aggressively. I think going from 70 to 80 cuts your efficiency 25 percent so it would be fine to do on the way to gore for example where there are plenty of chargers to and from. My issue was that I was testing in a relative high speed charger wasteland WITHOUT any convenient level 2 chargers. L2 are the plug and chill like a day of skiing or overnight hotel.
Campgottagopee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2020
