ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[Milo Maltbie]

You should be able to modulate regenerative braking well enough for winter driving. Maybe you dial the gain back a little but that shouldn’t affect range too much, especially for highway driving where range anxiety is a thing.

I once drove a heavy truck with an automatic that had 2 brake pedals. One was brakes and the other was a transmission brake. Something like that might work well in an EV but good luck getting DOT to allow it.

mm

 

[Ripitz]

One was brakes and the other was a transmission brake. Something like that might work well in an EV

Our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has paddles on the steering wheel for five different levels of regenerative braking. The brake lights go on too when you use it.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

Our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has paddles on the steering wheel for five different levels of regenerative braking. The brake lights go on too when you use it.

That sounds like a good solution.

I also thought some more about 2 brake pedals. If you had a left foot pedal for hydraulic brakes only, you could not only prevent the regenerative brakes from crashing you, you could use it to limit wheelspin on start up. I used to drive my VW Rabbit full throttle with my left foot on the brakes, Erik Carlson style. That was a lot of fun but modern cars have too much electronic control for that stuff.

mm

 

[Ripitz]

Yikes, these thingys are about to be battle tested.

 

[DomB]

Wow. They seemed like they would not be one of the survivors of the EV wars. A military budget will help . . . .

 

[Brownski]

I wouldn’t put too much stock in it. The military tries out all kinds of stuff. They are probably buying one of everything just to gauge what’s possible and define requirements for a future program

 

[Harvey]

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Sorry, that meme you just retweeted isn't correct.

www.motortrend.com

Long and a bit exhausting, but article claims that it takes about 2 years of driving for an ev to start to have less co2 impact vs an ice.

Author is talking about the break even point on co2, not $$.

 

[DomB]

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Sorry, that meme you just retweeted isn't correct.

www.motortrend.com

Long and a bit exhausting, but article claims that it takes about 2 years of driving for an ev to start to have less co2 impact vs an ice.

Thanks for sharing. Have noted this for a while - short term it is true EVs are less green when you take into mfg process. The numbers I have seen is about 18,000 miles, the EV makes up the gap. Then, unless you live in a dirty electricity generating state (i.e. West Virginia) the EV has much lower - to nearly 0 emission tied to it. For example, Vermont's energy is ridiculously clean and New York's is surprisingly clean.

The next knock on EVs is that what do you do when the battery is not good enough for EV use. The answers are (a) that is a long time (lots of stories of tesla batteries with 1m miles - find an ICE consumer car with that) and (b) there is second life (and third) recycling, like battery storage for solar.

The next knock is cost, which is pretty valid, though now there can be subsidies for up to 12,500 for labor, American made batteries (I think but unclear).

The next knock is range anxiety, which might be valid for backcountry or offroading, but there are pretty rugged trails that you can be on with access to charging.

The next knock is cold weather range hit, up to 25-33 percent, which seems valid now.

I am sure there are more.

 

[Harvey]

Thanks for sharing. Have noted this for a while - short term it is true EVs are less green when you take into mfg process. The numbers I have seen is about 18,000 miles, the EV makes up the gap. Then, unless you live in a dirty electricity generating state (i.e. West Virginia) the EV has much lower - to nearly 0 emission tied to it. For example, Vermont's energy is ridiculously clean and New York's is surprisingly clean.

The next knock on EVs is that what do you do when the battery is not good enough for EV use. The answers are (a) that is a long time (lots of stories of tesla batteries with 1m miles - find an ICE consumer car with that) and (b) there is second life (and third) recycling, like battery storage for solar.

The next knock is cost, which is pretty valid, though now there can be subsidies for up to 12,500 for labor, American made batteries (I think but unclear).

The next knock is range anxiety, which might be valid for backcountry or offroading, but there are pretty rugged trails that you can be on with access to charging.

The next knock is cold weather range hit, up to 25-33 percent, which seems valid now.

I am sure there are more.

To me hybrid solves a lot of it.

Smaller batteries so less mfg impact
Uses less gas than other cars with no range anxiety

I hope what he said about battery production getting "better" is true, I'll believe it when I see it. I certainly think it can improve, but are we seeing it yet?

Mining of minerals in china, is a big issue. If everyone switched to EVs they would have a ton of leverage.

 

[Campgottagopee]

To me hybrid solves a lot of it.

IMO, this ^^^^ should be our concentration. Total EV, right now, still feels like a square peg in a round hole idea.