ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[MarzNC]

True, but 2 seat golf carts can be found as low as $2.5k - no where near $30K. It also looks like it will be difficult for those in the retired age group to get in and out of the Aptera. Plus, the Aptera is 177 inches long vs 92 inches for a 2 seat golf cart.
I think there is a market for the Aptera - but there are lots of issues.

I live in the southeast. There are a lot of relatively new Over 50 communities with very active retirees who have the money. I see what kind of SUVs they are driving when I go to the supermarket. One of the larger 50+ communities that's been around for over a decade is about a mile from my house. I could see someone living there having an Aptera for errands as a second vehicle. Can't take a golf cart outside of the development.

Hard to get into? That's like saying someone who is over 60 won't be skiing off-piste anymore.

In any case, Aptera is clearly going after a much younger demographic. The video on their website has young adult blond women with surfboards, presumably in California since that's where the company is based.

 

[Harvey]

Maybe abandoned is too strong. Still, there's no $7000 credit for buying one.

 

[MarzNC]

Maybe abandoned is too strong. Still, there's no $7000 credit for buying one.

Actually the Federal tax credit is $7500. That's a big reason that my husband opted to buy another RAV4 Prime PHEV instead of getting my daughter a hybrid SUV now that she's a college graduate. Back in June, he was worried we wouldn't get one in time to get the full tax credit. As it turned out, I picked it up in August plus Toyota doesn't have to worry about the cap any more. I'm driving the new RAV4 Prime XSE and she is using the almost 2-year old RAV4 Prime SE with almost 40,000 miles. She was lobbying for a Subaru Crosstrek for a couple years.

I took your statement as implying car manufacturers were going to phase out hybrids in favor of EVs sooner rather than later. Not sure that's the case yet. The EV charging infrastructure has a ways to go for people who don't want to buy a Tesla.

 

[Harvey]

Cars get phase out when demand for them drops.

The tax credit also applies to plug-in hybrids? I didn't know that.

How does the price paid vs MRSP stack up for:

ICE
Hybrid
Pluggin Hybrid
EV

Right now? Anyone? Camp?

While the California thing may seem kooky, no significant forward progress happens without disruption, IMO. They will get that right before 2035.

For now my only real choice financially seem to be continuing to drive and fix our old cars, CRV (5 years old, just hit 100k) and the Prius (11 years old, 129k).

When we move to the mtns wife is probably going to want AWD, and if I had to do that now I'd choose a RAV Prime. Maybe other choices by then.

For me, you kind of need a pickup to live in North River, with no garbage pickup you have to make trips to the dump. Also super convenient for moving MTBs and other stuff. But I'll also likely be driving distances to ski, so I don't see an EV as my truck. Maybe Toyota will have a pluggin hybrid Tacoma. Quick Google, I didn't see one now.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Electric Cars and Plug-In Hybrids That Qualify for Tax Credits Under the Inflation Reduction Act

Consumer Reports details the list of 2022 and 2023 model-year electric cars and plug-in hybrids that are eligible under new credit structure, according to the IRS.

www.consumerreports.org

The Fine Print​

All the vehicles on both of these lists will still be subject to new caps on how much vehicles can cost: For SUVs, pickup trucks, and vans, the threshold is $80,000. For sedans, hatchbacks, wagons, and other vehicles, the credit cuts off at $55,000.
In other words, the Tesla Model S and Model X and the GMC Hummer probably won’t qualify, even though they’re on the Department of Energy’s initial list.
We don’t yet know how the IRS will classify certain vehicles. For example, because their prices are above $55,000, the Cadillac Lyriq and Tesla Model Y would qualify only if they are classified as SUVs and not station wagons. In addition, some vehicles may qualify only if buyers don’t choose options that bring the price over $80,000.
All these vehicles will also still have to meet both of those aforementioned battery manufacturing targets to qualify for the full tax credit, and we don’t yet know which ones will.

 

[Campgottagopee]

I don’t blame you. Conversely we could calm down, repeal the 2035 mandates and just continue to improve our ICE vehicles (which are already way better than they used to be) until we have a better handle on things.

Agree
This move to EV's should NOT have a live drawn in the sand. It's too important for people who haven't a clue about the industry (politicians) to be making the rules. The cart is in front of the horse. Until our infrastructure is ready they need to stay out as they'll just screw it up.

 

[Campgottagopee]

One concern for all of us should be repairs. Right now techs hate to work on EV's and Hybrids. You should see the gear they have to wear to do it. One master tech I know refuses to work on them stating he doesn't get paid enough to risk the injuries that could happen. Labor rates will continue to go up and finding people willing to work on these things will be challenging, to say the least.

 

[jasonwx]

One concern for all of us should be repairs. Right now techs hate to work on EV's and Hybrids. You should see the gear they have to wear to do it. One master tech I know refuses to work on them stating he doesn't get paid enough to risk the injuries that could happen. Labor rates will continue to go up and finding people willing to work on these things will be challenging, to say the least.

i hear those orange cables can ruin your day

 

[Campgottagopee]

i hear those orange cables can ruin your day

That's fer sure
These guys aren't lineman nor are they trained to be lineman.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

This move to EV's should NOT have a live drawn in the sand. It's too important for people who haven't a clue about the industry (politicians) to be making the rules. The cart is in front of the horse. Until our infrastructure is ready they need to stay out as they'll just screw it up.

Without deadlines nothing happens. The whole EV conversion will never happen if the government policies do not support it because it is driven by a political consensus about climate change, not by market forces. “The market” has never produced environmental improvements without government mandates. The market hasn’t built much infrastructure without government support either.

mm