Hickory Ski Center Might Be Reopening

Brownski said:
I don’t think Benny is in tinfoil hat territory. I don’t think ORDA is conspiring to obstruct Hickory but it’s not a crazy thing to think. To whit…

Harvey/Garnet Mountain, North River, NY

www.nelsap.org
And yeah, regulating a surface lift the same as a chair or an elevator is stupid.
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Deep State fuckers. RIP Harvey Mountain. Nearby, there is a trail at Garnet Hill XC called Liftline. Does anyone know if there ever was a lift there?
 
Ripitz said:
Deep State fuckers. RIP Harvey Mountain. Nearby, there is a trail at Garnet Hill XC called Liftline. Does anyone know if there ever was a lift there?
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Was a dream of original owner George Heim, never went in.
 
Low Angle Life said:
:ROFLMAO: your tinfoil hat is showing, what business would the state have trying to stifle the efforts of a ski area like Hickory. There are far more harmful legitimate government conspiracies out there than ORDA forcefully outcompeting a resort that chooses to operate on a model of surface lifts and natural snow, in 2022....
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This is where it gets confusing - ORDA's ski areas are notorious for making life a pain in the ass for private ski areas operating nearby (see Belleayre and Plattekill's relationship). At the same time, all of ORDA's resorts are losing money anyways - Belleayre's been bleeding cash for a good while now - and the fact that nothing's really been done to stop that makes me doubt that they really want to put anyone out of business. What's going on at Hickory is just the result of a deadly combination of mind-numbing bureaucracy and useless, poorly thought-out laws.

As for the second part: It surprises many people out west when I tell them that New York has more ski areas than any other state in the US. You have the ORDA 3, larger destination resorts like Hunter, Windham, and Holiday Valley, and a handful of well-known classics like Plattekill, but otherwise most of what you're left with is small areas, mostly surface lift based, which don't have snowmaking, yes, in 2022. Like it or not, that's a big part of New York's ski scene, and these areas would certainly adopt or upgrade their snowmaking if they had the funds to do so. As I said before, it's not really ORDA's fault, but it would be rather bold to suggest that it's Hickory's fault for not being West Mountain or even Gore.
 
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ne_skier said:
most of what you're left with is small areas, mostly surface lift based, which don't have snowmaking, yes, in 2022.
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That's just like your opinion, man. Most internet sources will tell you there are 43 ski area's in NY, at least 29 of which by my count have at least one chair lift.

I have nothing against Hickory and am not saying it is their fault for not being West or Gore, in fact I don't think they should be. There really can be room for all three, at least in theory if a place like the Mad River Valley can support MRG, Sugarbush and Stowe. That all said there are some other factors at play that make the Hickory situation more difficult than lets say MRG.... significantly less annual snowfall, boulder strewn trails that require a solid base, lower base and maximum elevation and the list goes on. I have a lot of sympathy for small independently operated ski areas and want to see them succeed but its hard to contest that it's a difficult business at best, particularly if you are not willing to modernize. Trying to do all of that difficult business as a non-profit is only going to make matters more challenging.
 
ne_skier said:
This is where it gets confusing - ORDA's ski areas are notorious for making life a pain in the ass for private ski areas operating nearby (see Belleayre and Plattekill's relationship). At the same time, all of ORDA's resorts are losing money anyways - Belleayre's been bleeding cash for a good while now - and the fact that nothing's really been done to stop that makes me doubt that they really want to put anyone out of business. What's going on at Hickory is just the result of a deadly combination of mind-numbing bureaucracy and useless, poorly thought-out laws.
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It really depends how you define the finances of the 3 ORDA ski areas as they are operating under different accounting rules when compared to other ski areas. Under ORDA, Gore and WF have been mostly cash flow positive. This of course does not include the capital expenditures which come from NYS. Belleayre switched from the DEC to ORDA in 2012. By now it might be cash flow positive. NYS has been spending $$$$$$ on upgrades and expansions at the ski areas over the last 2 decades. The issue for ORDA is that, despite all the expansions and upgrades, visits have remained static at Gore and WF over the last 20 years.

The year in year out money losers at ORDA are all the Olympic Facilities including the Convention Center.
 
x10003q said:
The issue for ORDA is that, despite all the expansions and upgrades, visits have remained static at Gore and WF over the last 20 years.
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Do they address this in the annual report or elsewhere? Do they say they goal is to grow skier visits?
 
Harvey said:
Do they address this in the annual report or elsewhere? Do they say they goal is to grow skier visits?
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Number one of ORDA's Legislative Mission Statement

"1.Institute a comprehensive, coordinated program of activities utilizing the Olympic facilities, Gore Mountain, and Belleayre Mountain, in and around Lake Placid, North Creek, and Highmount, New York, in order to ensure optimum year-round use and enjoyment of these facilities to the economic and social benefit of the regions and to minimize the financial burden on state and local government by maximizing revenue opportunities."

ORDA is clearly ignoring what I bolded. They are not maximizing revenue opportunities. The easiest way to maximizing revenue opportunities at Gore is to increase skier visits. We have had this discussion many times. Despite Gore almost doubling in size and getting a new entry point (Ski Bowl) since 2000, it continues to have about 215k visits per year for the last 20 years. An increase of 50k visits at Gore would not harm the ski experience, but it would help Gore, North Creek and the surrounding areas financially.

orda.org

Our Mission | About | Olympic Regional Development Authority

Our Mission: Increasing visitation to the Adirondack region by operating our venues while at the same time promoting the Olympic Spirit.
orda.org orda.org
 
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