F Vail

[Ripitz]

Nothing wrong with straight skis until you try to turn them.

 

[MarzNC]

Vail currently has 5 Colorado ski areas……..8 Pennsylvania Ski areas

Very, very different markets and terrain. A "ski resort" in PA is nothing like one in Colorado. What PA has that CO doesn't is millions of people living in cities who VR hopes are willing to buy plane tickets to ski out west, in addition to doing local skiing.

 

[MarzNC]

"As a company, we have been focused on acquiring resorts near major metropolitan areas as we know many skiers and riders build their passion for the sport close to home. These great ski areas in Pennsylvania are a perfect complement to our existing resorts, creating a much stronger connection and compelling offering to our current and future guests in Pittsburgh as well as those in other critical markets such as Washington, D.C., Baltimore and Cleveland."

One reason VR wanted to get Peak Resorts was that not only did that bring in Mount Snow and Attitash/Wildcat for the Boston market, Peak had bought the 3 Showtime locations (Whitetail, Liberty, Roundtop) that serve the DC/Baltimore region. Peak started in the midwest so Cleveland and Cinncinnati are now "local" for an Epic Pass. my ski buddy who lives in Cleveland who recently semi-retired is skiing more in Ohio than before. Although he uses Ikon for trips out west.

The people who live in Pittsburgh have been skiing 7Springs/Hidden Valley for years. Plus drive to WV for Snowshoe, Canaan Valley, and once again Timberline as of the 2020-21 season.

 

[MarzNC]

Now that you mention it, weren’t some of the Von Trapp kids in there?

The Von Trapp Lodge is still a center of XC skiing in Stowe.

 

[MarzNC]

VR started out moving east by buying 3 formerly independent family-owned ski areas/resorts in the midwest. They spent millions on major lift and lodge upgrades.

In 2012, VR bought Afton Alps in MN and Mt. Brighton in MI cost $20 million for both. The initial invested announced was $10M. Afton Alps serves Minn/St. Paul. Mt. Brighton covers Detroit and Ann Arbor (university town). Wilmot was added in 2016, which serves Chicago. The initial reactions of the locals was pretty negative. But by two months into the the first seasons under VR, it was easy to find locals who were quite happy with what they could do with an Epic pass.

However, the evolution of VR operations in PA and the northeast hasn't been the same as in the midwest.

 

[MarzNC]

Good point. The cost of a Disney vacation should easily cover a whole season of skiing. Do people say Disney is for rich elites? I‘ve been there more than I ever wanted to and the clientele seemed to come from all demographic and income groups.

Difference for a Disney vacation for a family who don't ordinarily take an expensive vacation is that it can be a once-in-a lifetime type of experience. Or at least only once as a child when parents are footing the bill. Can't say that about a ski vacation with ski in/out lodging at a destination resort.

 

[Brownski]

What you really sound like is the equivalent of someone wanting to ignore 20 years of advancement in ski technology and go back to straight skis.

Guilty. Duh. I think I’ve written like a dozen blog posts about my love of straight skis. The green K2s cost me $20.

I know you like to scapegoat detachable lifts for a lot of issues with the ski industry

It’s not scapegoating if it’s true. They make the tickets more expensive and make trails more crowded.

 

[Brownski]

Nothing wrong with straight skis until you try to turn them.

Point em and don’t worry

 

[MarzNC]

Here are my notes about the timing and markets for VR acquisitions since 2010.

2010 - Northstar, CA (Tahoe)
2010 - Kirkwood, CA (Tahoe)
2012 - Afton Alps, MN (Minn/St. Paul)
2012 - Mt. Brighton, MI (Detroit/Ann Arbor)
2013 - Canyons, UT (50-yr lease)
2014 - Park City (PCMR), combined with Canyons, UT
2014 - Perisher in Australia - largest restort in Australia
2016 - Wilmot, WI (Chicago)
2016 - W-B in Vancouver, Canada
2017 - Stowe, VT (northern)
2018 - Okemo, VT (southern) - Triple Peaks
2018 - Sunapee, NH (Boston) - Triple Peaks
2018 - Crested Butte, CO - Triple Peaks
2019 - Falls Creek in Australia
2019 - Hotham in Australia
2019 - Peak Resorts
17 locations in midwest, mid-Atlantic, northeast (MO, OH, IN; PA; NY, VT, NH)
including
Mt Snow, VT (southern)
Hunter, NY (Catskills)
Wildcat, NH (Boston)
Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop, PA - former Snowtime (DC/NoVA/Baltimore)

 

[x10003q]

Guilty. Duh. I think I’ve written like a dozen blog posts about my love of straight skis. The green K2s cost me $20.
View attachment 11228

It’s not scapegoating if it’s true. They make the tickets more expensive and make trails more crowded.

Detachables do not make tickets more expensive. Ski areas, like most businesses, will charge what the market will bear. As for crowding, on a normal weekend day, they generally the same amount of people on the trail when compared to a FGQ.