Windham Mountain Going Private?

I can't imagine committing six figure money to be locked into a low angle hill, but then again I'm not wealthy.
The big new houses at Windham are high seven figures. The six figure commitment is an Air BNB condo.
This is nothing different at Windham, just more. It's not the Yellowstone Club model at all. It's fancy houses for a few rich guys, and condos for retired cops. Now they are just rebranding to justify higher prices to keep the crowds down. The condos are gonna end up being STRs.

Windham has at least two private clubs now (three if you count ASF). There's the fancy third floor club that looks like they're gonna make even more fancy, and also the last remnant of the old Windham Mountain Club from the 70s. Those are the people mountain management pays attention to, and the new owners have made a huge mistake of they haven't gotten them on board for this. OTOH the off-mountain property owners seem pretty concerned, but I think it just ends up being a price increase more than a dramatic change in actual operations. Maybe the big difference will be you'll need to rent an on-mountain STR to ski peak weekends, and no more buses. All the locals would be OK with that.

mm
 
The couple of posts by Dubstar have some faults within them.

While I agree that limiting Windham going forward might be a hardship for some, it is not clear what is going on so far. Also, the new owners have a right to do what they think will make them the most profit. If that means eliminating some of the existing programs (weddings/mountain biking) or even limiting ticket sales, that is their choice.

While there is a large amount of housing in and around Windham with more to come, I do not think they will be able to go full private. I would guess they are going to be open to the pubic midweek and have limited ticket sales on weekends. Magic in VT has a limited day ticket policy. Magic's policy is well defined, but who really knows if the limits are actually enforced or if the limits are even a factor.

If Windham does go full private it will be a big loss for the skiing public.
 
I don't think they are really going full private club. It's more like upgrading the existing club and limiting tickets sales to improve the peak day experience for passholders. I think the local business community, full time residents and off-mountain property owners are too strong to be ignored. When you are the only large business in a small town, you are always vulnerable to targeted local laws, and keeping the locals happy is one way to deal with that. IMO it's a good sign that they are continuing free season passes for WAJ students. The bus trip crowd has been kicked to the curb already, but the locals are happy about that.

Maybe part of the play is to build a bunch of STR condos and then restrict ticket sales to rentals through the mountain booking service. That keeps a share of the STR money with the mountain.

I'm more and more convinced that this is mostly a re-branding to create the perception that higher prices are justified.

mm
 
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I don't think they are really going full private club. It's more like upgrading the existing club and limiting tickets sales to improve the peak day experience for passholders. I think the local business community, full time residents and off-mountain property owners are too strong to be ignored. When you are the only large business in a small town, you are always vulnerable to targeted local laws, and keeping the locals happy is one way to deal with that. IMO it's a good sign that they are continuing free season passes for WAJ students. The bus trip crowd has been kicked to the curb already, but the locals are happy about that.

Maybe part of the play is to build a bunch of STR condos and then restrict ticket sales to rentals through the mountain booking service. That keeps a share of the STR money with the mountain.

I'm more and more convinced that this is mostly a re-branding to create the perception that higher prices are justified.

mm
This all makes sense. Vail has dropped the ball so hard with Hunter that I think it could actually work. All four of the Catskill ski areas have something unique to offer the market now.
 
I have been going to Windham for 13 years now and have mixed feelings now that my kids have almost aged out of the programs. When we started the mountain was owned by someone who was very hands on and seemed to love the mountain (he has since passed) and treated it less as a business, and more as him adding a value to the public (while still making very good money). The lift tickets/season passes were very reasonable, kids programs financially accessible to many, and always family oriented unlike Hunter. Lets face it skiing has always been expensive and not accessible to most.

As ownership changed hands prices spiked for Lift Tickets/Daycare/Lessons/etc, Whisper Creek was built on the closest parking lot, long standing Ski Clubs were eliminated, etc. I feel very fortunate to have started and experienced that Windham, but now have to accept what Windham is and will become soon. The current owners have Zero obligation to the general public to even allow access if they so choose. Will an upstate congressperson embrace this issue for political gain if they go 100% private? You bet they will. Threats of environmental "issues", permitting, utilities, etc might be just enough for them to stop or delay a private club, but I don't think the State of NY has any legal foot to stand on. People can post articles all day long about how private mountains have failed, but none of them were 2 hours from Manhattan.

I mean ask yourself if you owned the mountain would you rather make the same money (or more) servicing 600 people or 4,000? When you look at social media all you see are pictures and complaints of ridiculously long lift lines at Windham and most Northeast ski resorts. The only solution is to thin the herd. Leaving Ikon and only allowing much higher priced Windham season passes could do the trick, but my guess is 100% private is inevitable. If you join an expensive Golf club do you want to wait to tee off as 3 backed up non-member foursomes are ahead of you? Ownership I am sure has done their homework and determined they will have enough commitment to thrive. Will they survive 20 years? Who knows. Maybe they will just bundle it up in 7-8 years and sell off to the next entity.

None of us have access to Windham's books but what does it cost to run the soon to be closing ski rental shop in terms of buying/maintaining hundreds of pairs of skis, boots, etc. and the associated labor cost to rent those skis? This large footprint the rental shop sits on I'm sure could be used to generate more revenue while outsourcing ski rentals to Windham Mountain Outfitters. I mean do they want to cater to a skier who rents skis by the day anyway? Would they need the same size ski patrol and emergency services with 1/3 the people? How many parking attendants do they need for 4,000 people vs. 600? You get my point.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE to build a new ski mountain today in terms of cost and environmental issues so Windham owns an irreplaceable asset which will now be leveraged to it's maximum in the next 3-5 years. Windham, Hunter, etc have been operating on an unfair playing field with NY State pumping 10's of millions into Belleayre, Gore etc


If Windham does go private it will be a sad day but people were sad 30 years ago as well. Houses off mountain will basically be worthless in the sub 1M range as it like's owning a beach front home and they take the beach away or charge 200K to walk your dog on it. Sure quality places like Millrock will survive but there will be no need for spill over places Brandywine, Vesuvio's, etc. Even the Chicken Run will feel the pain but the mountain makes Zero off these businesses and the new owners probably don't care. Harsh but true.

Hopefully the memberships are transferrable so when you buy a home perhaps the hook is it comes with a membership.

Sunday and Triple Play passes no longer available BTW. I'm not sure how many more hints we all need to reach the inevitable conclusion.
 
"Also, the new owners have a right to do what they think will make them the most profit. "

Depends on if any tax breaks are in play and to what extent there is conflict of interest with council members who are also employed by Windham, which the email specifically mentions. The email also mentions the water plant issue. You also have potential issues involving lack of accessible public parking which will further burden the town's infrastructure. Now factor in the potential of reduced daily visits either due to drastically higher ticket prices or via restrictions on non-member and restaurants and other businesses which have come to rely on a vibrant tourist economy will suffer. Plenty of dead towns up in the Catskills and Windham doesn't need to flirt with that possibility.

Even if the mountain remains fully public, the direction it is headed in is misguided and pretentious. Without terrain expansion and accompanying lift and snowmaking infrastructure, all this does is increase crowds without accounting for existing issues. If they really were committed to "all things downhill" or whatever the new slogan is, the first project announced should have been dropping a new lift off the backside of East Peak and cutting new trails. Given the real estate they acquired earlier this year, they could even develop a second base area with some creative planning. The only good thing about all these fancy upgrades is that perhaps people will spend more time eating than skiing :p

Perhaps none of this will happen. Given Windham's purposeful lack of definitive information so far and the absolute PR disaster of this week's announcement, I think it's better for people to raise the alarm now and not later when it may be too late.
 
Belleayre is about to get slammed. Plattekill will be soon after.
 
What's the estimated drop in skier visits at Windham?
 
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