Will the Epic pass affect season pass prices in the northeast?

[Brownski]

Exactly right Benny. ASC’s IPO happened when I worked at Killington. What a debacle.

 

[Epicone]

You must of missed it earlier this year, but Vail borrowed a ton in the early part of the shutdown. In other words, sold a chunk of the company to survive, because even before Covid they were having money issues. The acquisition war has been going on for a while now between them and Alterea and the forces behind that company before it was Alterea. Basically, sorry, Ahole finance guys waving their little things. We've been through it before with ASC, and that never ends well. These people are poison to America, but, I digress.
I know money is cheap, but, with the massive loss of revenue they have seen and may well experience for possibly years, sane minds will probably prevail. Ha. Prevail.

As a consumer, a consumer of skiing, prices have never been cheaper for me, I love what vail and alterra has done for the industry, the old days you paid big bucks for a season pass that was only good at one place, why any one enjoyed that model is beyond me, I am aware of Vail’s loan, which prevents them from purchasing another ski company, and from doing anything but regular maintenance above certain dollar amount, if vail has problems, image what alterra has, they bought everything in 3 years, even without Covid, the only way alterra was paying off that debt was an ipo. Not sure comparing les ottens companies to vail and alterra companies are sound comparisons.

 

[MarzNC]

Not sure comparing les ottens companies to vail and alterra companies are sound comparisons.

I'm re-reading Chris Diamond's Ski Inc 2020. He was clearly taken by surprise by the speed at which the creation of Alterra by KSL and the Crown family happened. That's a big reason he decided to write an update to Ski Inc, which was published in early 2017.

Both VR (under Katz since 2006) and Alterra are staying away from the real estate development that ACS and Intrawest had as fundamental aspects of their business models.

 

[MarzNC]

Exactly right Benny. ASC’s IPO happened when I worked at Killington. What a debacle.

What were season pass prices at Killington back in the 1990s? How about around 2005-2007? Did they change soon after 2008 put the entire ski industry into a slow mode for several years after that recession started?

 

[Brownski]

I don’t remember what season passes cost back then. Mine was free in exchange for working for them for very little money.

 

[Epicone]

What were season pass prices at Killington back in the 1990s? How about around 2005-2007? Did they change soon after 2008 put the entire ski industry into a slow mode for several years after that recession started?

1996/1997 a Killington ski pass was 1500 according to New England ski resort news/history, they have a season pass price of 1443 for 08/09, 07 is when Powdr Corp took Killington over from asc. Seems a lot of people on this forum want to go back to those 1996/1997 prices for season passes, 1500 hundred bucks for one Mtn. Two if you count Pico.

 

[MarzNC]

1996/1997 a Killington ski pass was 1500 according to New England ski resort news/history, they have a season pass price of 1443 for 08/09, 07 is when Powdr Corp took Killington over from asc. Seems a lot of people on this forum want to go back to those 1996/1997 prices for season passes, 1500 hundred bucks for one Mtn. Two if you count Pico.

Guess the question is how many years ago someone started having to pay for their own skiing. Not everyone here is over 60.

I get the impression that $1500-2000 was a standard price for a season pass in New England at the destination ski resorts by the 1990s.

The cost of a season pass in the southeast and mid-Atlantic was $400-500 when I started skiing enough to pay attention back around 2005. That was for small mountains with under 200 acres and rarely more than 1000 ft vertical. For my home mountain, 7 days was breakeven assuming a couple days were on a weekend.

Season pass prices haven't really changed that much in the last decade in the SE/MidA. At the same time, day tickets prices have crept up. A weekend day ticket is $60-90. The Indy Pass is great as an alternative for people willing to do a bit of driving. People in NC or VA or DC/NoVA can easily reach 2-4 locations with either day trips or staying overnight for 1-2 nights.

 

[Epicone]

Guess the question is how many years ago someone started having to pay for their own skiing. Not everyone here is over 60.

I get the impression that $1500-2000 was a standard price for a season pass in New England at the destination ski resorts by the 1990s.

The cost of a season pass in the southeast and mid-Atlantic was $400-500 when I started skiing enough to pay attention back around 2005. That was for small mountains with under 200 acres and rarely more than 1000 ft vertical. For my home mountain, 7 days was breakeven assuming a couple days were on a weekend.

Season pass prices haven't really changed that much in the last decade in the SE/MidA. At the same time, day tickets prices have crept up. A weekend day ticket is $60-90. The Indy Pass is great as an alternative for people willing to do a bit of driving. People in NC or VA or DC/NoVA can easily reach 2-4 locations with either day trips or staying overnight for 1-2 nights.

I was on the shuttle up to beaver creek last winter and a guy and his son or sons, where on the bus, he said he skis a lot at round top in pa, he lived near there, this was his 3rd day at either beaver creek or vail, asked him if he had the epic pass, he said no, why would I want that, some people have no desire to save money, the stockholders of vail resorts love those guys,lol

 

[Brownski]

After I got a normal job I shopped for discount days pretty hard. Window prices back then were much more reasonable. One year I bought a Jiminy season pass. It was reasonable compared to other options back then- maybe 6-700 I think. When I had kids I started shopping around for a feeder hill to call home, settled on Mt Peter so we got season passes there for years. 2-400 depending on age if I recall correctly. Since then I’ve done Platty season passes, max passes and Indy passes but also shopped for deals on Liftopia. I like saving money but the year I had the max pass I skied Bell and Windham more then I did Plattekill. That’s not ideal. Epic and Ikon are great values but not for everyone.

 

[MarzNC]

I was on the shuttle up to beaver creek last winter and a guy and his son or sons, where on the bus, he said he skis a lot at round top in pa, he lived near there, this was his 3rd day at either beaver creek or vail, asked him if he had the epic pass, he said no, why would I want that, some people have no desire to save money, the stockholders of vail resorts love those guys,lol

The people who had a Snowtime pass for Roundtop, Liberty, and Whitetail were quite spoiled. I think the season pass that was good at all three was something like $400 at the most before Irv Naylor sold to Peak Resorts. Many didn't like the Peak pass prices, which were significantly higher for people who wanted to ski on weekends. That ill feeling probably transferred to Epic when VR took over. Most probably don't even know the Epic Day Pass exists for people who ski <7 days at VR resorts at big mountains.

I just re-read that it wasn't really Irv's decision to sell to Peak. He's given ownership to his grandchildren when they were young, presumably for tax reasons. When Peak made an offer, he had to tell his grandchildren. They were adults in their 30s-40s with no interest in running ski resorts. They were quite happy to take the money, which was apparently more than Naylor expected.

Clearly there are people who buy day tickets during ski vacations out west. At VR destination resorts, wonder what what percentage of travelers understand how Epic passes work. Especially those taking a ski vacation involving flying for the first time. I've seen people buying day tickets at all the destination resorts I've been to in the last decade.