Will the Epic pass affect season pass prices in the northeast?

[Benny Profane]

Let's see how things look in April. It's October, and, right on schedule, cases are increasing nationwide and the second wave is hitting Europe, our President is in the hospital and D.C. is descending into self inflicted chaos. I'm still prepared in my mind for no skiing this winter, especially travelling to it, but, I did buy the Epic Northeast midweek because it's essentially a cheap pass to Hunter, a day trip. If skiing shuts down again, expect major carnage in the ski industry, much like you're seeing in dining, air travel, cruises, and hotels. I really doubt anybody is thinking of buying anybody else, although money is as cheap as it can get, so, maybe. ORDA skiers should relax, the state will always be there to support you.

Just remember that the nation has and will have much worse issues than whether or not we can ski. First world problem.

 

[Epicone]

A little reading about the Boyne RFID system. First link is the press release from 2019. Axess is the vendor. That's the vendor that Alta chose back in 2007. RFID can be used for a lot more than lift access at a ski resort. With RFID readers at food and retail outlets, resorts can eliminate the need to pull out cash or a credit card to pay for a purchase.

Boyne Resorts: First In The World To Offer Dual-Frequency Lift Access

Dual-Frequency RFID Lift Access

I thought dual-frequency does something more than "regular" RFID. But in a quick read, I didn't find something new and significant. Boyne Resorts:

www.snowjournal.com

Axess Offers First In The World Dual-Frequency Lift Access At Boyne Resorts

www.teamaxess.com

Deep stuff, can’t really comprehend it all, but boyne will move the envelop, after Katz, Kircher is one the most outside the box thinkers in the industry, schaefer of Berkshire East is a rising star. Doug fish in a storm skier podcast mentioned that most ski resort managers are a risk averse crowd, that’s why it took an outsider, Katz, to change the industry.

 

[Epicone]

Let's see how things look in April. It's October, and, right on schedule, cases are increasing nationwide and the second wave is hitting Europe, our President is in the hospital and D.C. is descending into self inflicted chaos. I'm still prepared in my mind for no skiing this winter, especially travelling to it, but, I did buy the Epic Northeast midweek because it's essentially a cheap pass to Hunter, a day trip. If skiing shuts down again, expect major carnage in the ski industry, much like you're seeing in dining, air travel, cruises, and hotels. I really doubt anybody is thinking of buying anybody else, although money is as cheap as it can get, so, maybe. ORDA skiers should relax, the state will always be there to support you.

Just remember that the nation has and will have much worst issues than whether or not we can ski. First world problem.

While most people think of skiing as a rich persons weekend hobby, thousands if not millions of jobs are directly and indirectly related to skiing, in almost all industries, layoffs and company failures which break people financially or mentally are just as bad as the virus. None of this is good, just wondering if we should gone the Sweden route? When emotions get involved it begins hard to make some decisions, thing was every one wanted to keep people safe, does that really work when you destroy industries, which then destroy lives, don’t know, glad I never had to make a decision on this, dam if you do, dam if you don’t.

 

[MarzNC]

Deep stuff, can’t really comprehend it all, but boyne will move the envelop, after Katz, Kircher is one the most outside the box thinkers in the industry, schaefer of Berkshire East is a rising star. Doug fish in a storm skier podcast mentioned that most ski resort managers are a risk averse crowd, that’s why it took an outsider, Katz, to change the industry.

The mini-collections in the northeast are interesting. There is ORDA, the Berkshire Summit (Berkshire East, Catamount, Bousquet), and what Boyne had/has. The Boyne New England pass for Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf morphed into Loon only and a Maine pass because of the pandemic. Boyne can provide perks to passholders in the northeast and midwest for Big Sky and Brighton. It says a lot about long term planning that they retained ownership of Big Sky when they sold other locations to CNL and became the long-term operator for a decade.

Any idea what a season pass cost at Loon before Boyne became the operator in 2007?

 

[Epicone]

06/07 season on New England ski resort news/loon history is listed as 569, however in 1997/1998 loon is listed as 1080, my guess the 06/07 figure is wrong, 07/08 is listed as 849, 08/09 is listed as 1049, what I can’t figure is why the Fairbanks group doesn’t have a pass that is reciprocal at all three resorts they own, storm skier is right most passes in New England are over priced and or restrictive. Bretton woods and Waterville valley are between hard place and a rock. Not sure why either one didn’t join the Indy pass, especially Waterville valley, the next few years will be interesting especially if vail and alterra survive this Covid 19 crisis.

 

[MarzNC]

Bretton woods and Waterville valley are between hard place and a rock. Not sure why either one didn’t join the Indy pass, especially Waterville valley,

How much have you skied at Bretton Woods or Waterville? My sense of both places is that their regulars are quite happy paying more for season passes because it thins out the crowd somewhat. I stayed overnight at one of the inns at Waterville during an early season ski safari. Had a good tour of BW with someone who retired to Franconia and skis Cannon, BW, and Loon depending on snow and weather conditions. My general impression is that few regulars at BW or Waterville know or care that ski forums exist.

I can’t figure is why the Fairbanks group doesn’t have a pass that is reciprocal at all three resorts they own

While it could make some sense for a few people, Jiminy Peak, Bromley, and Cranmore serve pretty different markets. Cranmore draws families from Boston. JP draws from NYC as well as locally. It's 3 hours from Boston but folks in eastern MA are more used to driving north to ME if they are going to drive that long. Bromley is a ski area, not a ski resort since there is no slopeside lodging at all. I can't really see people who like those places wanting to drive to any of the others.

I like Jiminy Peak a lot compared to other ski resorts in that size category. I skied there a few times when my daughter was in school near Boston. Of course, I'm spoiled because I could stay slopeside at the Wyndham timeshare and ski midweek. The high speed lift makes for a lot of skiing midweek. Their investment in an express 6-pack and RFID is paying off I think.

 

[Harvey]

Bromley is a ski area, not a ski resort since there is no slopeside lodging at all.

Ha. I never knew what the difference was.

For me, if I really like the place I call it a ski area, if not I go with resort.

 

[MarzNC]

Ha. I never knew what the difference was.

For me, if I really like the place I call it a ski area, if not I go with resort.

LOL

There is no official definition as far as I know. I started separating ski area from ski resort in my mind after I started traveling with kids or adult intermediates. When having to stay overnight, makes quite a difference if there isn't lodging very close by. Doesn't have to be ski in/out but needs to be within a 10 min drive. Plenty of intermediates don't ski all day or want to take a long lunch, preferably at their lodging. With kids who are beginners also helps a lot to have something else to do that isn't skiing when staying 3-4 days. So that's another feature of a "resort."

Belleayre is a ski area to me. Windham and Hunter are ski resorts. Plattekill is an "old school" ski area.

Jiminy Peak is a ski resort. Berkshire East is an old school ski area. The little lodge near the base is too small to really count.

Stowe, Smuggs, Sugarbush, and Jay Peak are destination ski resorts. Meaning a good number of people go for a ski vacation that includes 4-7 days of skiing in a week.

Whiteface and Gore are harder to categorize.

I think ski resorts are more likely to be able to charge more for a 1-location season pass. The Epic locations in New England are mostly ski resorts with slopeside lodging. Sunapee has lodging options not that far away.

 

[Epicone]

Ha. I never knew what the difference was.

For me, if I really like the place I call it a ski area, if not I go with resort.

Warren Miller use to joke aren’t all ski areas destinations?

 

[Epicone]

How much have you skied at Bretton Woods or Waterville? My sense of both places is that their regulars are quite happy paying more for season passes because it thins out the crowd somewhat. I stayed overnight at one of the inns at Waterville during an early season ski safari. Had a good tour of BW with someone who retired to Franconia and skis Cannon, BW, and Loon depending on snow and weather conditions. My general impression is that few regulars at BW or Waterville know or care that ski forums exist.


While it could make some sense for a few people, Jiminy Peak, Bromley, and Cranmore serve pretty different markets. Cranmore draws families from Boston. JP draws from NYC as well as locally. It's 3 hours from Boston but folks in eastern MA are more used to driving north to ME if they are going to drive that long. Bromley is a ski area, not a ski resort since there is no slopeside lodging at all. I can't really see people who like those places wanting to drive to any of the others.

I like Jiminy Peak a lot compared to other ski resorts in that size category. I skied there a few times when my daughter was in school near Boston. Of course, I'm spoiled because I could stay slopeside at the Wyndham timeshare and ski midweek. The high speed lift makes for a lot of skiing midweek. Their investment in an express 6-pack and RFID is paying off I think.

Have a family connection to jiminy Peak, my grandfather grew up their, it was his dads farm, my great grandfather, around 1900 got appendicitis, it burst, back then when it burst it was sol time, he was my age now, lol, his widow sold the farm to either a retired New York State trooper or a retired nyc police officer, who in the 30’s sold it to Bart Hendricks, and Bart let 10th mountain guys cut trails on it, and the rest is history as they say, Bart was a skier also. What Brian Fairbanks has done with jiminy Peak is nothing short of remarkable, when I was kid they had a t bar, added a small double chair, the lodge was a green house with a wood stove in it.