Will the Epic pass affect season pass prices in the northeast?

[MarzNC]

After I got a normal job I shopped for discount days pretty hard. Window prices back then were much more reasonable. One year I bought a Jiminy season pass. It was reasonable compared to other options back then- maybe 6-700 I think. When I had kids I started shopping around for a feeder hill to call home, settled on Mt Peter so we got season passes there for years. 2-400 depending on age if I recall correctly. Since then I’ve done Platty season passes, max passes and Indy passes but also shopped for deals on Liftopia. I like saving money but the year I had the max pass I skied Bell and Windham more then I did Plattekill. That’s not ideal. Epic and Ikon are great values but not for everyone.

That makes me think of another question . . . are there many places in the northeast that have a Family Pass? How about a pass that's designed so parents of young children can share it. Meaning pay for one pass that both parents can use, but only one at a time while the other parent is somewhere off the slopes with the kid(s).

Massanutten is offering a Family Pass for the first time this season. It's a pretty good deal for a family of 4 where everyone skis at least a little.

Liftopia was good for the northeast and out west. Not an option in SE/MidA. Don't know about the midwest.

 

[Epicone]

Until va

The people who had a Snowtime pass for Roundtop, Liberty, and Whitetail were quite spoiled. I think the season pass that was good at all three was something like $400 at the most before Irv Naylor sold to Peak Resorts. Many didn't like the Peak pass prices, which were significantly higher for people who wanted to ski on weekends. That ill feeling probably transferred to Epic when VR took over. Most probably don't even know the Epic Day Pass exists for people who ski <7 days at VR resorts at big mountains.

I just re-read that it wasn't really Irv's decision to sell to Peak. He's given ownership to his grandchildren when they were young, presumably for tax reasons. When Peak made an offer, he had to tell his grandchildren. They were adults in their 30s-40s with no interest in running ski resorts. They were quite happy to take the money, which was apparently more than Naylor expected.

Clearly there are people who buy day tickets during ski vacations out west. At VR destination resorts, wonder what what percentage of travelers understand how Epic passes work. Especially those taking a ski vacation involving flying for the first time. I've seen people buying day tickets at all the destination resorts I've been to in the last decade

 

[Epicone]

Until vail bought Peak resorts, never heard of roundtop or any other area in pa to be honest, rode a chairlift at Mt snow with a woman who’s home Mtn is roundtop she had an epic pass, she loved all the options on the epic pass and the second was the guy on shuttle up to beaver creek that I posted earlier about. Ran into alot of pa skiers at Mt snow this winter, Mt snow was unique that every weekend the crowds were from different regions, sometimes a Boston/emass Crowd, nyc crowd, a ct wmass crowd, New Hampshire crowd, New Jersey crowd, different every weekend.

 

[MarzNC]

Came across a recent article with the historical listing of Epic Pass prices. The increase from 2008 to 2020 comes out about 70%, going from 6 resorts to 37 resorts. Didn't go up much the first five years, which was the recovery period after the 2008 recession. Out of the 37, about a dozen are feeder mountains near large metropolitan areas in the mid-Atlantic and midwest. Whistler-Blackcomb was added for 2016-17. First Epic season for Stowe was 2017-18.

Here's how much the price of Vail's Epic Pass has increased over the years | OutThere Colorado

After the Vail Resorts' early purchase discount ended last week, prices climbed to an all-time high of nearly $1,000 for the full Epic Pass. Here's a look at how the

www.outtherecolorado.com

– 2008/2009 season: $579; Unlimited skiing to 6 resorts
– 2009/2010 season: $599 (+3.5%); Unlimited skiing to 6 resorts
– 2010/2011 season: $599 (+0%); Unlimited skiing to 6 resorts
– 2011/2012 season: $649 (+8.3%); Unlimited skiing at 7 resorts
– 2012/2013 season: $659 (+1.5%); Unlimited skiing at 8 resorts
– 2013/2014 season: $729 (+10.6%); Unlimited skiing at 12 resorts
– 2014/2015 season: $729 (+0%); Unlimited skiing at 11 resorts
– 2015/2016 season: $769 (+5.5%); Unlimited skiing at 12 resorts
– 2016/2017 season: $809 (+5.2%); Unlimited skiing at 13 resorts
– 2017/2018 season: $859 (+6.2%); Unlimited skiing at 14 resorts
– 2018/2019 season: $899 (+4.66%); Unlimited skiing at 18 resorts
– 2019/2020 season: $939 (+4.5%); Unlimited skiing at 20 resorts
– 2020/2021 season: $999 (+6.4%); "Priority" access at 37 resorts

 

[Benny Profane]

That should go back to at least 2002, when I spent a few months in Summit county with what I think was called an Epic pass, that got me Vail/Beaver, Abasin, Breck, and Keystone for about 350.
Copper/Winter Park had a full pass in the 200s, non holiday. Somewhere in there I got a few days at Monarch.

 

[MarzNC]

That should go back to at least 2002, when I spent a few months in Summit county with what I think was called an Epic pass, that got me Vail/Beaver, Abasin, Breck, and Keystone for about 350.
Copper/Winter Park had a full pass in the 200s, non holiday. Somewhere in there I got a few days at Monarch.

Sorry, but no. The Epic pass for Vail Resorts started in 2008. There was a pass that included several Colorado resorts but I don't remember which ones or the names. The resorts not owned by VR weren't happy at all when Katz talked the VR Board into the first Epic pass for far less than season passes were going for back then. Little did they know . . .

How Vail's EPIC Pass Changed the Game

Vail is leading the charge to a more corporate ski industry- and they're doing so by making lift tickets affordable. What does this mean for the future of skiing?

www.newschoolers.com

VR Celebrates Ten Years of the Epic Pass - Snowsports Industries America

March 18, 2018 marked the official 10th Anniversary of the Epic Pass, one of the most immersive and industry-changing season pass programs of all time. Here’s a look back at the last decade of Epic with some interesting trivia from the Vail Resorts team: 2008: The 2008-2009 Epic Pass is...

snowsports.org

 

[MarzNC]

Found more history of what happened in Colorado before Epic came on the scene in 2008. I didn't start paying any attention to VR or Colorado skiing until a few years ago.

http://www.denverpost.com/2007/09/07/ski-pass-cost-comparison-softens-lift-whines/

One factor back then was that Intrawest existed as direct competition to VR in Colorado. VR had a Colorado Pass (Keystone, Breck, ABasin), that morphed into Epic Local, but the key difference is that only 10 days at Vail and Beaver Creek were included for $419 for 2007-08, or just the three without Vail and BC for $379. I think the price went from almost $2000 for unlimited access to Vail or Beaver Creek separately to around $600 for unlimited access to all six VR resorts. Much like the price drop for locals when Stowe was added to Epic. The VR Board couldn't imagine that sales could make up for such a price drop. Intrawest countered with the Rocky Mountain Super Pass, which was only $399 the first season. Those are the resorts now on Ikon after Alterra bought Intrawest a few years ago.

From the article 1-location passes in 2007 were $1200-1800 at destination resorts out west: $1810 for JH, $1799 for Squaw (without Alpine Meadows), $1399 for Park City (without Canyons), $1399 for Whistler, $1599 for Aspen.

In 2002, VR started considering blackout dates for Breck. Sometime in the 1990s was when lift lines at VR resorts started getting silly during busy days like during holiday periods. The spring price for the Colorado was around $300, so $350 as the regular price sounds about right for 2002-03.

Vail Resorts considers blackout days for Breck

BRECKENRIDGE - Skiers and boarders who hold Buddy passes and Colorado passes might not be able to get in as many days on the slopes if Breckenridge Ski Resort

www.summitdaily.com

 

[Benny Profane]

Um, yeah, I was there. It was cheap. I bought the Colorado pass (same thing as Epic) and the Ricky Mountain pass for something like 650 bucks in 2002, which I thought was really cool, considering a season pass to a solid mountain anywhere was at least in the teens. ASC joined the frey by selling passes to Killington in the 300s, which was pretty cool, too. But we all know how that ended.

 

[MarzNC]

I bought the Colorado pass (same thing as Epic)

I assume you didn't care about skiing at Vail or Beaver Creek. They were only added when Epic debuted in 2008-09. Choosing "Epic" as a brand was very deliberate on the part of VR.

The fact that VR chose "Epic" for their multi-resort pass that was destined to become multi-state/multi-region was what eventually led to the demise of EpicSki. Took a decade, but it was pretty inevitable because EpicSki Inc. held trademarks. The last primary owner was offered an amount that couldn't be refused. I know some, but not all of what happened because I was a Moderator the last five years that EpicSki existed.

Bottom line is that the Epic pass changed lift access pricing in the west pretty quickly. The Mountain Collective Pass in 2012 was the first move by independents like Aspen and Jackson Hole to fight back. Presumably the Intrawest Passport that evolved into the MAX Pass was also a response to Epic. Now Alterra with Ikon are the direct competitors to Epic for people interested in skiing in more than one region, including destination resorts in the west.

So back to my original question . . . will season pass prices change in the northeast now that Epic has fully integrated the former Peak Resorts locations? In particular now that Northeast Epic is an option for folks who live in the northeast who don't plan to head west or aren't interested in skiing at VR resorts outside the northeast/PA/OH/MI. Northeast Epic Value includes 10 non-holiday days at Stowe. Also includes the former three Snowtime locations in PA that serve the DC/noVA area. Price is $619 as of 10/15/2020.

 

[Benny Profane]

I can hear the Epicski roots.

Whatever, I didn't buy that pass to ski Keystone. Of course I skied Vail. That was the whole point. But it helped me hate Vail.

The history lesson is getting boring.