Whiteface Conditions

[Brownski]

perfect...pics of mountains and food...im down for some sushi and yakatori joints

I’m looking forward to the TR too. No pressure Chumpomatic, but expectations are high

 

[Face4Me]

I know I asked this before but I forget... what does the new lift give us that we don't have now?

I think they kind of make the point in the quote I posted .

As yet unnamed, it's called Whiteface Lift A in the resolution "to construct and install a high-speed detachable quad chairlift to provide year-round access" from the Bear Den Lodge to the new Legacy Lodge.

Year round access to the new Legacy Lodge. It's my belief that they want to make that lodge available for events in the Summer, like weddings and that sort of thing. That's really the driving force here. (all presumption - no facts)

The problem is ... what's the ROI there? How much revenue do they really expect to generate from that lodge in the off-season? Let's say I'm being VERY optimistic, and we go with $500K / year (which is highly unlikely), it would still take over 30 YEARS to recoup the investment in that lift. Makes NO sense to me!

If they put this lift in, with the exception of a few days each winter, it's going to be another Warhorse lift (another brilliant idea) ... something that you spend an absolute fortune on that nobody uses.

They can barely get enough staff now to manage the lifts they already have ... now you're going to have to staff another lift all day that no one uses.

ORDA does, and has done, a lot of stupid things, but this may be the grand prize winner.

 

[snoloco]

Agreed that the Bear Den to Mid lift is not a good use of resources. It would've been better to make the Falcon lift a detachable instead.

 

[chumpomatic]

If they put this lift in, with the exception of a few days each winter, it's going to be another Warhorse lift (another brilliant idea) ... something that you spend an absolute fortune on that nobody uses.

Definitely not trying to defend ORDA on this one. As I said, I think there are much better ways to spend this money but if they do this I'll probably use it quite a bit mid winter provided they open it at 8:30AM. I doubt I'll ever it use it in the summer though.

 

[Harvey]

The wedding thing (and any four season investment ) probably makes sense for many ski areas. But not before LWF and Summit if they are breaking down.

I love LWF as a double, but I'm sure if/when they replace it, it will be a quad.

 

[Tjf1967]

The wedding thing (and any four season investment ) probably makes sense for many ski areas. But not before LWF and Summit if they are breaking down.

I love LWF as a double, but I'm sure if/when they replace it, it will be a quad.

If they could run 30 years ago without problems they should be able to run today without problems. Just rebuild and maintain. Until they can make enough snow to pull the numbers in they don't need more uphill capacity. They e doing better with amount of snow they make but they are still a ways away.

 

[Face4Me]

I guess my issue with this lift really comes down to the dollars and sense of it. No privately owned and operated mountain would ever consider this lift. The price tag is just WAY too high (due to the complexities of the path it must take), and the bang for the buck just isn't there. But, since the state is just handing over tax payer dollars, why not?

Just to play devil's advocate, let's look at it from a winter perspective.

The lift will DEFINITELY be useful for the ski school. There's no doubt about that, but, how often is ski school so full that they would REALLY need it? Christmas week, Martin Luther King weekend (though not so much) and President's week. That's it. They should be able to find better solutions that would cost a whole lot less. You have the Warhorse lift, that is virtually unused all day, and now, there's a new trail they cut over there too.

Just get the kids over to the main area on the bus and call it a day. Or, revisit the plan to cut a trail where the power line goes from the main base area up to Bear Den behind the NYSEF building. That would provide easy access directly from the Bear Den lodge to the main base area with no uphill travel required. I believe there was an issue with that near the bottom due to the grading and the drainage, but I've got to believe you could find a solution to that for a lot less than $16.5M. And that assumes there won't be any cost overruns (which there will be).

What will the operating schedule for this lift be? Currently, they don't run the Little Whiteface chair on weekdays (except during holiday periods). Are they going to hire additional lift operators to run this lift on weekdays? For what?

Definitely not trying to defend ORDA on this one. As I said, I think there are much better ways to spend this money but if they do this I'll probably use it quite a bit mid winter provided they open it at 8:30AM. I doubt I'll ever it use it in the summer though.

Yeah ... I get it ... you'll use it ONCE in the morning and that's it. So, by 9:00 AM, no one will be riding this lift for the rest of the day. There would be absolutely no need for this lift on any regular weekday. Even on most weekends, empty chairs will be going up all day long. Looking at a calendar, you're talking about spending $16.5M on a lift that you would run approximately 40 days (and that's probably generous) over the course of the season. That seems kind of crazy to me.

If you used that money to really fix the issues with Little Whiteface and the Summit Quad, MOST of the problems in the base area(s) would be resolved. The lines get long at Whiteface typically because lifts they already have aren't running ... not because they don't have enough lifts.

Sorry for grinding on this, but as a New York State taxpayer, it pisses me off to see my tax dollars spent this way. I'm a big believer in ORDA and its mission, but it seems to me that there needs to be some oversight and closer scrutiny of their planning. This just doesn't make sense.

I'll try REALLY hard not to comment on it again!

 

[NYSnowflake]

Did some spring skiing here at Whiteface today. The lower mountain and base area are suffering from thin cover, snirt, and puddles. Mountain Run and Parkway were lots of fun today with soft carveable snow. It was so warm there were shirtless skiers and riders out there. We left around 2 when the lower mountain snow got too grabby. We will be here until Tuesday, for better or worse weather… would be nice to meet some other passholders/regulars this season. It’s our first season with NY Ski3 as our pass.

 

[Tjf1967]

Did some spring skiing here at Whiteface today. The lower mountain and base area are suffering from thin cover, snirt, and puddles. Mountain Run and Parkway were lots of fun today with soft carveable snow. It was so warm there were shirtless skiers and riders out there. We left around 2 when the lower mountain snow got too grabby. We will be here until Tuesday, for better or worse weather… would be nice to meet some other passholders/regulars this season. It’s our first season with NY Ski3 as our pass.

Face4me find him.

 

[gorgonzola]

Or her