The New Normal

[Campgottagopee]

I have a 15 yo. Way harder for her than for me or my wife. I'd totally risk covid again at this point, to keep her in school.

When I wrote what I did I was thinking of a neighbor of mine. He's an amazing athlete, and is a damn good kid. He missed out on a lot of his sports due to the pandemic. I know what sports meant to me when I was his age and I felt so bad for him.

 

[G.ski]

This past weekend I rode a lift at Belle with a very nice couple.

In the course of conversation the guy volunteered he was not only fully vaccinated and boosted but that he had managed to get a 4th shot as well. He followed that up by telling me that he had had COVID three (3) times. And still afraid he will get it again.

Interested in any feedback anyone might choose to offer, mostly in light of those who might view this as evidence that the vaccine does not work. Yes, I understand this vaccine is different and that its' main function is to protect against severe disease and hospitalization.

 

[G.ski]

What's wrong with data? I want to be right based on the data and willing to change my opinion based on any new information that comes to my attention. Sadly there' some people that will have none of that. Do you want the plane carrying your family designed and built based on feelings and opinion or math/science data?

It seems clear to me that endlessly quoting data is not inspiring many folks who do not want to be vaccinated to get vaccinated. Isn't that the point of all this, for everyone to get vaccinated? Or is the point for you to be right so you can rag on folks who feel differently than you do?

Great for you to be "right" but frankly who cares? The right thing to do is stop pounding people with data and look for ways to bring them on board with what is the right thing to do. There's a big difference between being right and doing the right thing.

And I don't fly especially with my whole family. Enclosed spaces are a good way to catch COVID.

 

[G.ski]

I remember reading about at least one large company that was going to make unvaccinated employees extra, in addition to the usual payments for health insurance. Think it was an American company but not positive.

That would be American Airlines.

 

[MarzNC]

This past weekend I rode a lift at Belle with a very nice couple.

In the course of conversation the guy volunteered he was not only fully vaccinated and boosted but that he had managed to get a 4th shot as well. He followed that up by telling me that he had had COVID three (3) times. And still afraid he will get it again.

Interested in any feedback anyone might choose to offer, mostly in light of those who might view this as evidence that the vaccine does not work. Yes, I understand this vaccine is different and that its' main function is to protect against severe disease and hospitalization.

Questions that come to mind . . . what is his history with getting the flu? How did he socialize in general pre-pandemic? A lot, a little, etc. Is he a "hugger" who tends to get very close to people on a regular basis, especially family and close friends.

Like a flu shot, a COVID-19 vaccination is only one precaution that makes it less likely that someone will get infected. Their behavior around other people is a major factor as well.

I had quite a few years when I was working that for one reason or another I didn't get a flu shot. I didn't get the flu. But my personality is such that I tended to avoid shaking hands even for some professional meetings with clients of my company. In general, I tend not to get very close physically to anyone. That includes family members.

Omicron changed the situation. It's more infectious but causes less serious illness even among unvaccinated people. Although at this stage someone who is unvaccinated may well have had a case of COVID-19 and not know it. So could be that they already had some level of natural immunity.

 

[MarzNC]

And I don't fly especially with my whole family. Enclosed spaces are a good way to catch COVID.

Yes and no. Enclosed spaces with little or no ventilation are more risky if there is someone there who has COVID-19 but doesn't know it. That is not what an airplane space is like. The level of ventilation is probably better than many hospitals. Plus people tend to be pretty quiet while on board.

I've been flying for ski trips since Dec 2020. Got vaccinated in April 2021 after I was eligible. Didn't do anything differently when flying during the 2021-22 season compared to the 2020-21 season when few people were vaccinated yet. One of my ski buddies who joined me for a couple trips is a family physician. The other is an immunologist. I'm a retired biostatistician who worked in the pharma industry dealing with clinical trails data (no vaccines). We all came to the same conclusions about the level of risk while flying.

This graphic from 2020 is a bit outdated because Omicron changed the situation. But still gets the point across that ventilation, level of crowding, and what people are doing in a given space (silent, speaking, shouting/singing) are factors worth considering.

 

[G.ski]

Questions that come to mind . . . what is his history with getting the flu? How did he socialize in general pre-pandemic? A lot, a little, etc. Is he a "hugger" who tends to get very close to people on a regular basis, especially family and close friends.

Like a flu shot, a COVID-19 vaccination is only one precaution that makes it less likely that someone will get infected. Their behavior around other people is a major factor as well.

I had quite a few years when I was working that for one reason or another I didn't get a flu shot. I didn't get the flu. But my personality is such that I tended to avoid shaking hands even for some professional meetings with clients of my company. In general, I tend not to get very close physically to anyone. That includes family members.

Omicron changed the situation. It's more infectious but causes less serious illness even among unvaccinated people. Although at this stage someone who is unvaccinated may well have had a case of COVID-19 and not know it. So could be that they already had some level of natural immunity.

Now we're talking.

I'm more introverted that many of you are I think. I don't enjoy closed in spaces or large crowds. So I avoid those types of places which has served me well and prevented me from getting sick with flu or COVID or whatever else. And while I am vaccinated for COVID I never get a flu shot and I never get sick. I just don't expose myself (and by corollary others) to whatever the germ du jour happens to be.

 

[MarzNC]

One of my ski buddies is not vaccinated. I'm not sure why and I don't ask. He was part of a fairly large group who went to Taos the same week and shared either lodging or rental cars, so knowing vaccination status was of interest well before the trip. Most were vaccinated but he and another person were not.

However, I know this guy well enough to be comfortable being indoors with him because I am aware of the level of behavioral precautions he is taking. He's been completely WFH since March 2020. He's been using KN95 masks pretty much as soon as it was clear that COVID-19 is spread by aerosols. Besides skiing, his other hobby is done outdoors or in very large indoor venues (BMX racing, over 50 class).

What's different with Omicron is that I'm starting to worry more about the fact that he's not vaccinated and very unlikely to have had COVID-19 without knowing it. As fewer people take any precautions besides being vaccinated, he will be at greater risk of exposure. I can't imaging he really wants to mask any time he's not at home for the rest of his life.

 

[Andy_ROC]

It seems clear to me that endlessly quoting data is not inspiring many folks who do not want to be vaccinated to get vaccinated. Isn't that the point of all this, for everyone to get vaccinated? Or is the point for you to be right so you can rag on folks who feel differently than you do?

Great for you to be "right" but frankly who cares? The right thing to do is stop pounding people with data and look for ways to bring them on board with what is the right thing to do. There's a big difference between being right and doing the right thing.

And I don't fly especially with my whole family. Enclosed spaces are a good way to catch COVID.

I didn't mean to respond with such a strong, combative sounding response. Sorry if I came across that way.

Did you even read the information and data I posted earlier today? It was nothing about vaxed vs unvaxed. Both natural immunity are effective and the combo might even be better yet. So to be clear I'm not ragging on anyone that feels differently. But I'm gonna call bullshit when someone makes statements that says states that had strict covid protocols vs those that didn't fared similarly. The body count says otherwise and the data I posted is about real people that are now dead.

I'm not sure why so many people think "sticking to your guns" in light of information that proves otherwise is a good characteristic?

 

[MarzNC]

Spent several hours in Great Barrington, MA today. (Skiing wasn't worth the drive time given that Catamount was closed and it was in the 50s this morning in the Berkshires.) As a town that depends heavily on tourism, GB still has quite a few restaurants and other businesses that are requiring masking. Customers are complying. At the same time, there are also shops that don't require masking. Made for a contrast to the outlet shops in Queensbury where few shops required masks and even in those that did there were people who didn't bother.

I'm guessing that the "new normal" in the USA will mean people who choose to be more cautious by masking are less likely to be considered dangerous by others. Back in 2020, people who masked were often thought to be sick by people who didn't understand the advantages of masking from a public health standpoint. In Asia, people have been masking during flu season for a couple decades. Many started during the SARS pandemic that started in 2002 that impacted 29 countries, including the USA and Canada. The H1N1 flu pandemic in 2009 meant more people got in the habit of masking during flu season.