Benny Profane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2020
Gore/Whiteface/Bellayre offers a discount card for 59 bucks that gets you a nice discount.
Ski Industry "Debundling"
- Thread starter snoloco
- Start date
trackbiker
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2020
Gore stopped offering their early season 4 pack. I really like Gore but I don't ski there enough to justify even the new skier card and I'm not paying $109 to ski there. So when I'm in the ADK this year I'll be skiing West and Oak.
I think the day prices and Epic crowds will eventually cause numbers to go down and they'll have to offer some deals to get people skiing again.
I refuse to ski at any Vail area. I used the Indy Pass 13 times last year and hope to pass that this year if we ever get some cold and snow.
Benny Profane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2020
Attachments
Harvey
Administrator
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2020
I've been thinking about the word "debundling."
@snoloco did you see this used somewhere in relation to skiing? When I google it, google keeps redirecting me to "unbundling" implying that debundling isn't a real word. In any case I think we all know what we are talking about.
In theory this should be a good thing for the consumer. As the emu car insurance guy says "only pay for what you need." If you don't need parking or space for you boot bag, you save right?
While sometimes I think that Skiology is over the top, in this case, I think his use of the term "bait and switch" is somewhat accurate. The Epic model has capitalized on the fact that people aren't really focused on the broader implications of a huge cut in price for lift tickets, they just see the immediate savings.
The way I see it the only possible outcomes are:
1 - Cost truly drops and ski areas make less money
2 - Cost for lift tickets drops but skier volume goes way up, so ski areas make the same money, but the majority of skier visit days (weekends/holidays) are more crowded
3 - Cost for lift tickets drop and ski areas make it up by charging for other things that used to be included (debundling).
4 - A combination of 2 and 3.
IMO all of the options reduce the value of the experience. That last one 4 seems to be what is going on now. By dropping ticket prices and then coming with the add-ons a year later, epic kind of sucked you in before they added the extra fees. Basically if you want to pay less you have to deal with the fact that it's going to be more crowded, or the mountains are going to make less money.
It's easy to calculate your ticket cost per ski day. Be very cool if there was an app that calculated your cost per ski minute. Powder aside, I'd be curious to see how my recent $40 lift ticket at McCauley would stand up against your average holiday at Mount Snow.
@snoloco did you see this used somewhere in relation to skiing? When I google it, google keeps redirecting me to "unbundling" implying that debundling isn't a real word. In any case I think we all know what we are talking about.
In theory this should be a good thing for the consumer. As the emu car insurance guy says "only pay for what you need." If you don't need parking or space for you boot bag, you save right?
While sometimes I think that Skiology is over the top, in this case, I think his use of the term "bait and switch" is somewhat accurate. The Epic model has capitalized on the fact that people aren't really focused on the broader implications of a huge cut in price for lift tickets, they just see the immediate savings.
The way I see it the only possible outcomes are:
1 - Cost truly drops and ski areas make less money
2 - Cost for lift tickets drops but skier volume goes way up, so ski areas make the same money, but the majority of skier visit days (weekends/holidays) are more crowded
3 - Cost for lift tickets drop and ski areas make it up by charging for other things that used to be included (debundling).
4 - A combination of 2 and 3.
IMO all of the options reduce the value of the experience. That last one 4 seems to be what is going on now. By dropping ticket prices and then coming with the add-ons a year later, epic kind of sucked you in before they added the extra fees. Basically if you want to pay less you have to deal with the fact that it's going to be more crowded, or the mountains are going to make less money.
It's easy to calculate your ticket cost per ski day. Be very cool if there was an app that calculated your cost per ski minute. Powder aside, I'd be curious to see how my recent $40 lift ticket at McCauley would stand up against your average holiday at Mount Snow.
MarzNC
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2020
Yes, but I don't remember if I've noticed any announcements lately in the northeast. More likely to be available during early season or for a short timeframe like a week or two.
The resorts run by PGRI started something called "Mission: Four-dable" a few years ago that is a 4-pack of unrestricted day tickets. Available for Ragged. I notice it because Wintergreen and Wisp are in my home region.
I don’t know if ya consider ORDA’s "non-pass" mountains but if ya buy days consecutively they’ll give ya a deal.
Ya can play with the dates to see what’s best. The 3 places aren’t the same regarding this feature.
This one is a screen shot for Belle when the WUG is gonna be wagging at the other 2.
Temp6
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2020
This is exactly what I meant. Would love to see more mountains offering something like this, even if it’s only for a short timeframe in the early season.
Imo these overcrowding issues come from trying to achieve endless growth in an industry with a finite amount of product to sell. There’s only so much snow, so many lifts, etc. The human population and certainly recreational industries are not getting any smaller in terms of amount of users. If you’re a real capitalist why not milk them for all their worth? I just hope this mentality doesn’t wind up swallowing all of the old school, pure skiing experiences that still exist out there.
Harvey
Administrator
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2020
Vote with your wallet, I believe it's your only option. IMO people who will do that, are a very small minority. I hate to say it, but I don't think I/we will have any impact.
The only hope is that epic becomes so terrible that the "I skied for $10 a day!" crowd decides that they aren't having any fun. I'm not optimistic.
Campgottagopee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2020
You couldn't pay me enough money to wait in those Epic shitshow liftlines
trackbiker
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2020
Epic season passes were down 12% this year. That's quite a bit. Some of those people likely bought one or more day passes but in any case they will get less valuable ancillary spend that way.
I think people will eventually tire of the crowds and the nickel and diming and either ski elsewhere or not at all.
