Poll: What management model for the best ski experience at ORDA Ski Areas?

[TomCat]

I think leasing or selling would result in gore looking a lot like VT, both the good and bad. We would likely get better snowmaking along with larger crowds and higher prices. The cool gore vibe would disappear quickly. We would likely look back and think “And we complained about paid weekend parking.”
I chose my winter home near gore in part because it’s not southern VT. I’ll stick with the devil I know.

Tom

 

[phillipbelena]

Honestly it often feels like you are not wanted at ORDA properties. We used to be able to skin up whiteface every morning before 8A, when the lifts started turning. Then COVID came and they used that as an excuse to start scaling back the morning skin up, because it was so dangerous to the 20 - 50 people that skinned up any given day. Then COVID ended and bingo they now charge you to skin up, have to have some ridiculous season pass, and they cut back the days. This small group of folks used no ORDA resources, and most are backcountry skiers, so giving this group a safe fun community seemed like a great idea, to train and build the skills for backcountry skiing.

 

[Tjf1967]

Honestly it often feels like you are not wanted at ORDA properties. We used to be able to skin up whiteface every morning before 8A, when the lifts started turning. Then COVID came and they used that as an excuse to start scaling back the morning skin up, because it was so dangerous to the 20 - 50 people that skinned up any given day. Then COVID ended and bingo they now charge you to skin up, have to have some ridiculous season pass, and they cut back the days. This small group of folks used no ORDA resources, and most are backcountry skiers, so giving this group a safe fun community seemed like a great idea, to train and build the skills for backcountry skiing.

They should allow skinning everyday but to say you used no resources is ridiculous.

 

[Harvey]

What is the appeal of WF for skinning vs any other mountain in the Adk?

 

[phillipbelena]

What resources do we

They should allow skinning everyday but to say you used no resources is ridiculous.

What resources do we use? No access to buildings, No lifts, No ski patrol, No lights.

 

[phillipbelena]

What is the appeal of WF for skinning vs any other mountain in the Adk?

WF vs. Wright or Marcy? Safer, no avalanche danger, less technical, wide trails, vs narrow. If someone gets hurt in the backcountry there is often significant Search and Rescue.

 

[Ripitz]

Honestly it often feels like you are not wanted at ORDA properties.

Well, if you want something for nothing, then you’re right, they don’t want you there. Take a lap on the Toll Road.

 

[phillipbelena]

Well, if you want something for nothing, then you’re right, they don’t want you there. Take a lap on the Toll Road.

Toll Road is pretty easy, low pitch, and most of the season it is windblown and icy, very few days it is any good. Let me clarify my statement above. While I think paying is ridiculous, - I have been skinning up whiteface pre Covid for 10 years no cost, with really no restrictions, except be off the mountain by 8a - I would be willing to pay a nominal fee to go daily, not just on Mon - Thu and Fri. I am not the only one that has complained about this policy, it has been a very active thread on forums, notably FB.

 

[Ripitz]

I am not the only one that has complained about this policy

I definitely have.

Thread 'Uphill Battle'

Uphill Battle

I’m sorry, I have to vent. As an avid skier and occasional uphiller I just don’t understand what the big deal is about letting people tour inbounds. I’m not advocating a go wherever whenever policy but ski areas should really start to recognize this fast growing segment of our sport and allow...

nyskiblog.com

I used to have the uphill pass as an add on to the Ski3. I don‘t get up there enough anymore to make it worth while so I’ve moved on.

Plenty of resources being used when uphilling. Parking, snowmaking, grooming and patrol is there if needed. It all comes down to mountain operations and not interfering with them. If there was a better uphill route at Whiteface they would have it available more often.

 

[Harvey]

Safer, no avalanche danger, less technical, wide trails, vs narrow.

The result of grooming and maintenance of the trails.

Toll Road is ... windblown and icy, very few days it is any good.

Another advantage of snowmaking and grooming at WF.

If someone gets hurt in the backcountry there is often significant Search and Rescue.

If you get hurt at WF patrol with a sled can SAR you, which is certainly less costly with the access that has been built there.

Paying for resources: The first skier could pay $10M to use the area and everyone else could be free. It's not that there is no cost, it's more about the difference between fixed and variable cost. Ski areas have a ton of fixed cost, and it only works if you spread it across many.

FWIW I think few (or none) here are against uphill access. Why would you be? IMO it has to be regulated somehow. I'm sure buying a pass indemnifies the mountain from lawsuit if you get killed by a snowmobile. Maybe it is just a few people, but it was my understanding that it started to get much more popular during covid and management felt they had to do something.

This poll was really designed to get opinions on a different issue: Do you think the mountains and venues would be better with private management or ownership?

My opinion is probably pretty well known here. ORDA areas have something that private areas don't have. Not saying it is better or worse, but it's different. Personally I love skiing at a place without slopeside lodging, but that is just me.

I want to see NY continue to look to find ways to support private ski areas too.

An Open Letter to Governor Cuomo

How can private business compete with the flow of taxpayer funded grants that go to New York's three state-owned ski areas?

nyskiblog.com

I'll leave this here for now, but ultimately probably move it to the Uphill Thread at some point.