Poll: What management model for the best ski experience at ORDA Ski Areas?

[x10003q]

I have a certain amount of sympathy for this point, as made by Laszlo and others, but it is kinda BS when you think about it. I regularly golf at courses owned by towns, counties and the state. There are also plenty of private courses that get my money. NYS campgrounds compete with private campgrounds. I would much prefer my kids go to SUNY schools than private schools, never mind for profit schools. Government has a place in all these milieus.

It is just not accurate to compare golf and skiing. Unlike golf courses, ski areas are highly limited.

In NYS alone, there are over 800 golf courses vs around 500 ski areas in the entire USA. There are 70 golf courses on just Long Island vs around 50 ski areas in New York State. There are around 220 golf courses in NJ.

States With The Most Golf Courses in the USA | Travel Magazine

Tee off in some of the USA's golf havens. Discover which states boast the highest number of golf courses, catering to enthusiasts of this leisurely sport.

travelmagazine.com

The capacity of a golf course is tiny compared to a ski area. Adding another golf course does not really affect competition among courses. An 18 hole golf course will see 300 golfers per day depending on daylight. A ski area like Gore might see 5000 sliders on a busy day. Stratton routinely sees over 10k visits on a Saturday.

There are over 14,000 campsites in NYS run by NYS. How is that even a comparison with skiing.

Find a Campground

Explore the outdoors and spend the night at one of the many beautiful New York State parks.

www.ny.gov

Bringing up state run colleges/universities like the SUNY system as a comparison to the 3 NYS ski areas is completely disingenuous. Every state in the USA provides state run education like the SUNY system. There are only a handful of govt run ski areas in the entire USA.

 

[rebel1916]

It is just not accurate to compare golf and skiing. Unlike golf courses, ski areas are highly limited.

In NYS alone, there are over 800 golf courses vs around 500 ski areas in the entire USA. There are 70 golf courses on just Long Island vs around 50 ski areas in New York State. There are around 220 golf courses in NJ.

States With The Most Golf Courses in the USA | Travel Magazine

Tee off in some of the USA's golf havens. Discover which states boast the highest number of golf courses, catering to enthusiasts of this leisurely sport.

travelmagazine.com

The capacity of a golf course is tiny compared to a ski area. Adding another golf course does not really affect competition among courses. An 18 hole golf course will see 300 golfers per day depending on daylight. A ski area like Gore might see 5000 sliders on a busy day. Stratton routinely sees over 10k visits on a Saturday.

There are over 14,000 campsites in NYS run by NYS. How is that even a comparison with skiing.

Find a Campground

Explore the outdoors and spend the night at one of the many beautiful New York State parks.

www.ny.gov

Bringing up state run colleges/universities like the SUNY system as a comparison to the 3 NYS ski areas is completely disingenuous. Every state in the USA provides state run education like the SUNY system. There are only a handful of govt run ski areas in the entire USA.

The argument, made by Laszlo and others, is that there is no other business that competes against the state like skiing. That argument is "disingenuous". I agree that golf is tilted more towards private, I agree that camping is tilted more towards public. The owners of private campgrounds and golf courses still compete directly against the state, in a recreational business. I also agree that SUNY is different. But it is an example of just how diverse the State's interests are. We could also talk about airports, ports, Corcraft, etc. etc.

 

[raisingarizona]

What resources do we use? No access to buildings, No lifts, No ski patrol, No lights.

That artificial snow and surfaces are mucho $.

 

[Harvey]

Sticking points for the other Catskill ski areas have included:

Capex funding
Tax on electricity
Distribution of an inordinate amount of free lift tickets

I'd doubt the required capex funding for campgrounds approaches the level of ski areas. Golf maybe not either, but I bet maintenance of the courses is expensive.

There is an 8% tax on electricity that the state areas are exempt from paying.

A decade ago Belle put several thousand free lift tickets into the market. (ORDA put a stop to this as soon as they took control from DEC.)

When you don't have to cover your expenses, and any losses are covered by competitors (taxpayers) it creates tension.

It boils down to defining fair competition. What is fair?

 

[Campgottagopee]

What is fair?

IMO, being held accountable for the zillions of dollars given to you by taxpayers

 

[SayvilleSteve]

There is an 8% tax on electricity that the state areas are exempt from paying.

If only there were a way to not pay for electricity and get a tax break from New York State to do so.

 

[phillipbelena]

It is just not accurate to compare golf and skiing. Unlike golf courses, ski areas are highly limited.

In NYS alone, there are over 800 golf courses vs around 500 ski areas in the entire USA. There are 70 golf courses on just Long Island vs around 50 ski areas in New York State. There are around 220 golf courses in NJ.

States With The Most Golf Courses in the USA | Travel Magazine

Tee off in some of the USA's golf havens. Discover which states boast the highest number of golf courses, catering to enthusiasts of this leisurely sport.

travelmagazine.com

The capacity of a golf course is tiny compared to a ski area. Adding another golf course does not really affect competition among courses. An 18 hole golf course will see 300 golfers per day depending on daylight. A ski area like Gore might see 5000 sliders on a busy day. Stratton routinely sees over 10k visits on a Saturday.

There are over 14,000 campsites in NYS run by NYS. How is that even a comparison with skiing.

Find a Campground

Explore the outdoors and spend the night at one of the many beautiful New York State parks.

www.ny.gov

Bringing up state run colleges/universities like the SUNY system as a comparison to the 3 NYS ski areas is completely disingenuous. Every state in the USA provides state run education like the SUNY system. There are only a handful of govt run ski areas in the entire USA.

wasn't comparing the SUNY system to state run ski areas, I was merely commenting that the state would be better off funding existing education infrastructure, rather than spending money on a frustrating customer experience at their ski areas.