Killington Village Discussion

[Benny Profane]

Skier visits are up over the past few years, so no, its not shrinking.


It will increase market share because lodging is always sold out now, and that drives people to other ski areas.

The units will be privately owned, so that is not monopoly pricing. Monopoly pricing is when demand so far outstrips supply that you can't find a hotel room within 30 miles on a weekend, and if you can find one, then it will be ridiculously overpriced.


Wrong. Once you factor in airfare, a rental car, and having to leave two full days just for travel, then you will likely stay in the east and drive, especially for a shorter trip. Most of Killington's growth has been in extended weekend trips, with people taking Friday or Monday off and making it a long weekend.


It's easier to find lodging near Stratton than it is at Killington. It's easier to find lodging near almost any other ski area in the Northeast. It's a severe shortage that puts a stranglehold on Killington's skier visits. I don't care about soul.

Of course you don't.

 

[snoloco]

Oh, and never forget, Powdr is the company that lost it's prized cash cow, Park City, to Vail, due to a stupid clerical error.

It was certainly a low point for the company, but I think they've recovered. Since then, they added Eldora, Snowbird, and Silver Star to their portfolio. I've always had good experiences at Killington, and my two days at Snowbird were some of my all time best ski days. I've also always heard good things about Copper and Mount Bachelor. I don't like everything they do, but I much prefer Powdr to Vail and Alterra.

Don't get me going about when they brought State Troopers in to shut down the Mogul challenge parking lot party, a forty year tradition.

That decision was made locally, as are most decisions affecting day to day operations. It was still a huge mistake, one that current management admits to and rectified.

Add the million dollar World Cup stupidity for dressing on the stupid salad.

30000 people showed up this year. I believe they continue to host it because people like going to it. If you don't like going to it, then you should ski somewhere else that weekend.

Grooming is pretty good, though.

Yes, one of their many strengths.

 

[MC2]

I think the Stratton village (and the Jiminy Peak village and whatever other village they want to build) is fine & it does a good job of drawing the kind of skiers who like that sort of thing to Stratton & Jiminy Peak and keeping them away from the mountains I like to ski.

 

[Benny Profane]

I am right behind ya, Stratton's base Village is the ugliest and soulless ski resort boondoggle south of Sugarbush's faux-barn silo. But I hope you aren't suggesting that K is the polar opposite and is a soulful resort? I appreciate K for what it is, but soulful it is not.

I also wonder how long the resort buildout can continue. It seems like everything should be against the long term viability of ski resorts... the eventual boomer die out, the lack of new youthful skiers (at replacement rate), the fact that younger people have more debt and lower buying power, climate change, etc.

Regarding the small mom and pop resort town lodges dyeing out, that isn't a K specific thing. That is happening all over. And given the lack of infrastructure improvement and maintenance done on those types of places, it shouldn't be a surprise. No one wants to pay the going rate to stay at an off-mountain dive without modern amenities (I mean, I would for less than market rate, but most resort goers are not interested in that).

My argument concerning the lack of beds is that, if there was demand, there wouldn't be empty and derelict hotels all around Killington when there used to be much more. When I first started skiing there in the 80s, they were everywhere. Now, just one case, the Cortina Inn, a pretty nice place, is now senior housing! An old age home! Furcryingoutloud. The demand has flown to Denver and SLC and Whistler on affordable packages. Nobody is going to keep a hotel up and alive for just winter weekends, because Spring and Summer is dead, and foliage is maybe two weekends.

 

[Benny Profane]

30000 people showed up this year. I believe they continue to host it because people like going to it. If you don't like going to it, then you should ski somewhere else that weekend.

And Powdr spent a million bucks for the show. They made Jack from the revenue generated. I hope you know that. A million bucks that can be spent so much better for the paying skier who could give a damn about it all. I never went, never will. But now lift tickets are going up, beer is 12 bucks, and it's a matter of time before everyday parking is no longer free. All for a party the dumb Powdr executives hold for themselves and friends.

 

[Tjf1967]

"With the water and road improvements, construction of the new village can begin, which will provide much needed lodging units to an area that has a severe lodging shortage. Any hotel rooms within 30 miles get booked weeks in advance. It's the biggest thing holding back Killington from gaining more skier visits, as they are too far away from population centers to be within day trip range."

This is all pretty ridiculous, and will just further suck any soul out of the Killington region and concentrate any sort of income from visiting skiers into the accounts of Powdr and create more abandoned private, or, non Powdr businesses along Rt. 4 and soon that cancer will spread up the access road. Nobody has been investing in new hotels and restaurants for years now, because of the plans for this village, and the shift of weekly visits out west by the ten day gaper family instead of driving to Vermont. Look at the crappy motels abandoned on Rt. 4 or, if they are alive, house homeless drug problems. Now we'll be forced to sleep in Powdr beds, because they'll drive everyone else out of business with this taxpayer funded boondoggle. Sad. And it will have as much soul as that pathetic Stratton village twenty years after it was built.

But, as long as they make snow and groom as much as they do, late season, I'll be there Just avoiding the stupid drink and food pricing. Gawd, the food. So awful, especially for the money.

And Superstar was going to be replaced anyway. It's about forty years old, and very heavily used.

Just enjoy your cheap passes and stop whining.

 

[snoloco]

I feel like if you bothered to read what I posted that you wouldn't be such a curmudgeon.

My argument concerning the lack of beds is that, if there was demand, there wouldn't be empty and derelict hotels all around Killington when there used to be much more.

I already said this. Those hotels went derelict during a bad era for Killington. They were losing skier visits to places like Stratton, Okemo, Sugarbush, and Stowe (all of which built villages). Even as recently as 2016, my dad booked a last minute trip on President's Weekend, and we stayed near the mountain on the access road. Could you do that now? Fuck no. It would be sold out a month in advance or cost upwards of 1000 dollars a night. Demand is rebounding, but it takes a lot longer for supply to rebound.

The demand has flown to Denver and SLC and Whistler on affordable packages.

It's not like lodging in the west is exactly affordable. And you have to pay for airfare, checked bags, and a rental car. And you need to be going for a much longer trip, as you need two entire days just to travel there and back. Oh but it's only a 5 hour flight. Same length as the drive to Killington. No, because once you factor in an hour to get to the airport 2 hours before your flight, an hour to leave the airport once you land, and another hour minimum to get to your destination from the airport, you're looking at 10 hours. In the east, you could take one vacation day, and ski for 3 days, which is plenty for most families. In the west, you need to take an entire week off. Again, I already said all of this. You just refused to read it.

Nobody is going to keep a hotel up and alive for just winter weekends, because Spring and Summer is dead, and foliage is maybe two weekends.

It's not just winter weekends anymore. One of the first things the current management did was a full court press on expanding summer business. In 3 years, the bike park literally tripled in size, and they added the Snowshed Adventure Center. You need year round business to sustain a base village. They learned from the mistakes others made.

And Powdr spent a million bucks for the show.

Yes, I know what they spent on it. It's not some big secret.

A million bucks that can be spent so much better for the paying skier who could give a damn about it all. I never went, never will.

So you're in a fit of rage over an event you don't go to. I enjoyed going the last 2 years, as did my friends who went. I'm a paying skier too.

But now lift tickets are going up, beer is 12 bucks.

Can you name a major ski resort where beer isn't 12 dollars and lift tickets aren't going up?

and it's a matter of time before everyday parking is no longer free. All for a party the dumb Powdr executives hold for themselves and friends.

If you thought the Fast Tracks backlash was bad, then imagine how bad the backlash to paid parking would be. I don't see it happening, and if it did, then it certainly wasn't due to just the World Cup.

 

[Benny Profane]

Those places went derelict over 30 years. But, if Killington is so healthy, and the demand is so high, why are they still shells, and nobody is renovating them or building new hotels and motels? Because winter weekends wont justify it. There's no week long traffic. It flies out west.

You really have to spend more time at Killington than Saturday, which is when most skiers do. Look around at the emptiness. You don't see that in Summit county or SLC or JH or Big Sky or a lot of western hills. That's where the hotel market is. Killington may get them two or three Saturdays a year. You can't run a business on that demand. Don't try to tell me that the summer is busy. Please.

And that's pretty ridiculous that you think Stowe and other markets have taken Killington's market. Try Sugarbush or even Stowe on a Tuesday. Empty. You should, though. Saturday sucks anywhere. You have a warped view of skiing if you like that.

 

[snoloco]

Those places went derelict over 30 years. But, if Killington is so healthy, and the demand is so high, why are they still shells, and nobody is renovating them or building new hotels and motels? Because winter weekends wont justify it. There's no week long traffic. It flies out west.

The demand only came back recently, and it takes a while to renovate or build new lodging. Another problem for access road development is the water quality. It's filled with tainted wells that have chemicals in them. That's why they are bulding a public water system. I never said there was week-long traffic. Their biggest growth area is people taking extended (3 or 4 day) weekends.

You really have to spend more time at Killington than Saturday, which is when most skiers do. Look around at the emptiness. You don't see that in Summit county or SLC or JH or Big Sky or a lot of western hills. That's where the hotel market is. Killington may get them two or three Saturdays a year. You can't run a business on that demand. Don't try to tell me that the summer is busy. Please.

I've been to Killington on Saturdays, Sundays, and weekdays this year. They have higher weekday visits than they did before the pandemic, and get more weekday visits than most eastern resorts. Summer is far busier than it was just 7-8 years ago, and you'd know this if you ever went there.

And that's pretty ridiculous that you think Stowe and other markets have taken Killington's market. Try Sugarbush or even Stowe on a Tuesday. Empty. You should, though. Saturday sucks anywhere. You have a warped view of skiing if you like that.

All of them reported increased skier visits right when Killington was hemorrhaging them.

I ski the days I can given that I work full time, which is mostly weekends, with the occasional vacation day. I think I ski as much as I can given that I need to make a living. If you think that's a warped view, then fuck you. Seriously, go fuck yourself you entitled prick.

 

[Benny Profane]

Angry young man. Skiing Saturdays does that. And lift problems. Always a lift problem.

Have a 12 dollar beer, smoke a bowl, and chill.