ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

Campgottagopee said:
This is interesting

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Trade-ins are going to be brutal for a while I think. Some bought at like 60k for a Y that you can get for 41k. If you don't view buying a car as a long term buy and hold you can take lots of risk.

Interesting to see how much they paid in subscriptions. The only thing I would consider paying for is wifi/hotspot, but I have never been an upcharge person. I would not pay for full self driving vs. very good adaptive cruise control with lane keep.

PS just finished the Isaacson Musk book. Now i am 0 suprised about his wacky decision to fire the entire full self driving team. He periodically fires entire teams (though this is the first I heard of an entire division) in any company of scale he has either if he shifts his strategic priority, a team is not pushing fast enough for him (which is really fast), or someone says no to him. He freely admits in the book that he is wrong at times, but it is part of his strategy to decide quickly and fail fast.

Love him or hate him, you have to respect what he has done to change technology (whether that is good or bad). The dude has had test launches of a space ship that is MARS CAPABLE. WTF.
 
Yup
He may be extremely eccentric (to be kind) but overall we’re better off for him being around. Rivian and all the mainstream manufacturers’ EVs wouldn’t exist without Tesla
 
DomB said:
Trade-ins are going to be brutal for a while I think. Some bought at like 60k for a Y that you can get for 41k. If you don't view buying a car as a long term buy and hold you can take lots of risk.

Interesting to see how much they paid in subscriptions. The only thing I would consider paying for is wifi/hotspot, but I have never been an upcharge person. I would not pay for full self driving vs. very good adaptive cruise control with lane keep.

PS just finished the Isaacson Musk book. Now i am 0 suprised about his wacky decision to fire the entire full self driving team. He periodically fires entire teams (though this is the first I heard of an entire division) in any company of scale he has either if he shifts his strategic priority, a team is not pushing fast enough for him (which is really fast), or someone says no to him. He freely admits in the book that he is wrong at times, but it is part of his strategy to decide quickly and fail fast.

Love him or hate him, you have to respect what he has done to change technology (whether that is good or bad). The dude has had test launches of a space ship that is MARS CAPABLE. WTF.
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Years and years ago I had a factory rep that worked for Tesla/Musk. He was in there during the early times. To date, this guy was one of the best factory reps I'd ever had in 25+ years of running a new car store. He told me he left because Musk was such a nut job! Guess some things will never change --- LoL
 
DomB said:
Now i am 0 suprised about his wacky decision to fire the entire full self driving team.
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He fired the Super Charging team not the FSD team. He's going all in on FSD.

I tested the latest build yesterday 12.3.6. Even if they get the neural net up to or beyond human skill levels, and train it on every possible random scenario, I don't think FSD will ever work until they put the cameras on the A pillers. There are so many blind unprotected turns around here and the car has to inch itself halfway out into the intersection to see what's going on. I took over but could have caused an accident.
 
I really like the Y FWIW and think the single screen is fine. Even with the newer suspension that I apparently have I'll admit the ride quality is rough with pot holes. Though I suppose that's also counterbalanced by it being fairly planted on the pavement and in turns despite it's weight. I've never loved the boaty feeling in luxury cars and SUVs
 
TheGreatAbyss said:
He fired the Super Charging team not the FSD team. He's going all in on FSD.

I tested the latest build yesterday 12.3.6. Even if they get the neural net up to or beyond human skill levels, and train it on every possible random scenario, I don't think FSD will ever work until they put the cameras on the A pillers. There are so many blind unprotected turns around here and the car has to inch itself halfway out into the intersection to see what's going on. I took over but could have caused an accident.
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Sorry typo. At the end of the book he was super into ai based self driving not rules based computer programming.
 
TheGreatAbyss said:
I really like the Y FWIW and think the single screen is fine. Even with the newer suspension that I apparently have I'll admit the ride quality is rough with pot holes. Though I suppose that's also counterbalanced by it being fairly planted on the pavement and in turns despite its weight. I've never loved the boaty feeling in luxury cars and SUVs
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There are going to be lots of competitors to the Y in the next three years. Right now it is only the Kia/hyundai variants.

Chevy blazer, rivian r2, Honda prologue, etc. oh wait two of those are out. Wow.

I cannot wait for Kia ev3 to be unveiled in late May. I think first deliveries will be either late 24 or early 25. 35k BEFORE tax credit. It is a small run about town that will have decent range. Ie what we really need for evs. A good second car for families that need two cars in city through ex urbs.

 
Yeah no doubt there are other competitors, though when you really compare Most of them to the Y on a true apples to apples basis they are still not really that competitive. The touring trim of the Prologue with AWD has a range of 270 mi and a price tag of 55K, vs 310 mi and 47K for the Y (both before tax credits).

I'm skeptical that Americans with will buy really small cars en masse, especially with families. Everyone around here with 1 or 2 kids seems to need to drop them off at pre-school in some giant Palisade/Telluride/Atlas/Tahoe etc.
 
TheGreatAbyss said:
Yeah no doubt there are other competitors, though when you really compare Most of them to the Y on a true apples to apples basis they are still not really that competitive. The touring trim of the Prologue with AWD has a range of 270 mi and a price tag of 55K, vs 310 mi and 47K for the Y (both before tax credits).

I'm skeptical that Americans with will buy really small cars en masse, especially with families. Everyone around here with 1 or 2 kids seems to need to drop them off at pre-school in some giant Palisade/Telluride/Atlas/Tahoe etc.
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Yeah the y is a great value. We need even cheaper for mass mass adoption.
 
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