ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

Brownski said:
When people say we subsidize oil, what are they referring to? I don’t think the government pays for drilling or exploration directly right? Is it just that public lands are leased at supposedly below market rates? Is there some kind of subsidized insurance rates? Import duties on foreign producers? Im genuinely asking.
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Government subsidies to the petrol industry are certainly not unique to the US. It's done by governments globally. Problem is when government subsidize things it distorts the natural market.

If people want EV subsidies to go away then to be consistent and not hypocritical then they should also want petroleum subsidies to go away.

Here's an article if you want to learn more. Plenty out there on the internet and admittedly I don't know much. Generally I support free market and the government usually screws it up.

www.brookings.edu

Reforming global fossil fuel subsidies: How the United States can restart international cooperation

Johannes Urpelainen and Elisha George discuss fossil fuel subsidies, their effect on the climate crisis, and the United States' role in reforming these subsidies in the Biden era.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu
 
Brownski said:
When people say we subsidize oil, what are they referring to? I don’t think the government pays for drilling or exploration directly right? Is it just that public lands are leased at supposedly below market rates? Is there some kind of subsidized insurance rates? Import duties on foreign producers? Im genuinely asking.
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A random technical example: favorable depreciation tax rules (read, write off).

In a normal situation if you have capital equipment, say a big drill, you depreciate and write down on business taxes the value over 20 or 30 years. If you accelerate it to a year or five years it really offsets a large portion of cash outlay.

Also I believe commercial trucks over x weight (250 size?) used in business including farming has accelerated depreciation. That is a form of subsidizing inefficient gas vehicles (by the way I think. Heavy evs benefit from that thru an unintended tax consequences when used for business). I'm not complaining about this one as I like food and farmers - just trying to show an indirect example.
 
DomB said:
A random technical example: favorable depreciation tax rules (read, write off).
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Depreciation isn't much of a subsidy. All businesses get to deduct the cost of equipment they use. Maybe accelerated write off schedules are a little of a subsidy, but the it's still just deducting money they have already spent.
Extraction industries get a better deal. They get depreciation plus a depletion allowance that allows them to deduct the value of oil or minerals as they extracted form the ground. Unlike other business deductions, there's no cash cost there, only an imputed value. But oil in the ground has no value until you build the facilities to produce it, and that cost is covered by depreciation. The depletion allowance is effectively a double count of the cost of doing business. It's a significant subsidy to all the extraction industries.

mm
 
DomB said:
3. I am personally starting to come to the conclusion that they should start reducing electric subsidies (and they actually are starting to). Honestly I feel that way because of the negative press it is getting, and annoying people from a PR perspective.
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EVs are all revenue and no cost to the electric company. Most of the charging is done off peak when costs are a fraction of the rates charged. Right now (Saturday morning) the wholesale price of electric energy is less than 2.5 cents/kW or less everywhere in NY. If you are charging during off peak hours (essentially all but a few hours a day) that's the only cost EVs put on the system, but you're gonna pay 18 cents or more to charge at home. EVs are subsidizing everyone's electricity bill.

mm
 
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Campgottagopee said:
Our government subsides everything.
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The government supports the entire industrial economy. What some call a subsidy is just in investment superior technology to others. The government invented the internet, built the highway system, and financed the railroads and telephone and electric systems. Countries without government have none of those things. There's no modern economy without an active government. Consider Somalia or Afghanistan or the whole third world.
 
tirolski said:
Why does NY's grid need big battery storage systems?
Looks like it was back to the drawing board at Raquette Lake.
www.adirondackexplorer.org

Developers pull out of Raquette Lake microgrid project

Plans for a battery energy storage facility in Raquette Lake have been scrapped, according to a representative of National Grid.
www.adirondackexplorer.org www.adirondackexplorer.org
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If you're gonna have solar and wind power you're gonna need lots of storage as well as other grid controls that are yet to be built. Whether or not any particular project is acceptable to the public or viable is another matter.

mm
 
TLDR: Ford has been activated with access to over 12,000 Tesla super chargers. Rivian and others coming, with Rivian next month. The choke point will be the adapter. Charging went smoothly - pulling 170 kw at the beginning.

 
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