ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[Tjf1967]

In case there was any doubt. The news is getting grim for EV mfg'ers. Thesis - EV makers, particularly called out Rivian and Lucid, are struggling with demand.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-startups-struggled-to-build-cars-now-they-struggle-to-sell-them-6bfff73c

I believe the leases will give Rivian a tick up in sales. They should have come out with them 8 months ago. The pickup is not their future.. the SUV is. Hopefully they make it.

 

[tirolski]

Someone once suggested that Tesla was in the business of selling. Carbon credits, not cars.

Carbon credits kept Tesla operating for many years.

Take away government rebates, let the “free market” allow consumers to choose and see where EV's land...There’s places for em. Artificial BS doesn’t usually work in the long run.
A friend told me today his son, who works for an EV company, just bought a horse...I gave the kid a thumbs up.

 

[Campgottagopee]

my wife's friend's husband bought a 100k Lucid ...he might be the proud owner of the most expensive lawn ornament in history..

That's my biggest issue with EVs. They're disposable rides. Once the battery goes, they're junk. Literally.

 

[DomB]

That's my biggest issue with EVs. They're disposable rides. Once the battery goes, they're junk. Literally.

Maybe, but the batteries should be getting in the range of a million miles.

 

[DomB]

my wife's friend's husband bought a 100k Lucid ...he might be the proud owner of the most expensive lawn ornament in history..

I think there is one big reason why not (not rational) - they are backed by the Saudi investment fund. You can see their production curve flat in the article (at a handful of thousand a quarter).

It is cool they have 400 miles of range.

 

[DomB]

Carbon credits kept Tesla operating for many years.
From 2016:
"Their manufacture is heavily subsidized — and their sale is heavily subsidized. Either way, the taxpayer is the one who gets the bill.
On the manufacturing end, Tesla got $1.3 billion in special “incentives” from the state of Nevada to build its battery factory there. This includes an exemption from having to pay any property taxes for the next 20 years. Another inducement was $195 million in transferable tax credits, which Tesla could sell for cash. California provides similar incentives, including $15 million to “create jobs” in the state.

Tesla does not make money by selling cars, either. It makes money by selling “carbon credits” to real car companies that make functionally and economically viable vehicles that can and do sell on the merits — but which are not “zero emissions” vehicles, as the electric Tesla is claimed to be."

Column: Elon Musk, crony capitalist king

Tesla could not build a single car without the government’s help

www.detroitnews.com

This was absolutely true then. I believe Tesla generates net profit now without the credits, that is the cars are actually profitable. Clearly they would not have survived without the credits.

PS - on the government subsidy point, that is how most of the rail infrastructure in the country was built pre and post Civil War - RR cos were given land (subsidies) in exchange for building rail.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Maybe, but the batteries should be getting in the range of a million miles.

There's zero chance of that. Sorry.

 

[tirolski]

on the government subsidy point, that is how most of the rail infrastructure in the country was built pre and post Civil War - RR cos were given land (subsidies) in exchange for building rail.

Yup.
Given land taken from & to the demise of Native Americans.

 

[DomB]

There's zero chance of that. Sorry.

"Breaking down how long a Tesla battery lasts. 200,000, 300,000, 500,000 and 1 million miles all achieved in the real world."

 

[DomB]

Yup.
Given land taken from & to the demise of Native Americans.

Yes, lots of really bad things in US history. Lots of good things, too.