ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[DomB]

TJ - since you are many miles in, are you seeing any range loss? Apparently most of the range loss is first year in. I am a year in and 14,000 miles and no range loss (my range actually increased when they released more batter pack).

I have only charged to 100 percent for road trips, I have run the battery down less than 10 percent only a handful of times. That said, I drive how I want: if I am on trips and think I'll need it, I charge up. I have found that charging 70-85% works perfectly fine 90% of the time or more, and I spend a fair bit of time in the mountains in the winter away from home.

 

[tirolski]

.. an all American Company.

Germans (Bosch) make the motors. Koreans make the battery cells.
Are those folks and/or their robots Americans?

 

[Tjf1967]

Germans (Bosch) make the motors. Koreans make the battery cells.
Are those folks and/or their robots Americans?

True..I don't hold that against them. You couldn't get the motors or the batteries when they started. They now make their own motors in the US. The batteries they can't afford to build their own.

 

[Tjf1967]

TJ - since you are many miles in, are you seeing any range loss? Apparently most of the range loss is first year in. I am a year in and 14,000 miles and no range loss (my range actually increased when they released more batter pack).

I have only charged to 100 percent for road trips, I have run the battery down less than 10 percent only a handful of times. That said, I drive how I want: if I am on trips and think I'll need it, I charge up. I have found that charging 70-85% works perfectly fine 90% of the time or more, and I spend a fair bit of time in the mountains in the winter away from home.

I don't follow it close enough and it's winter. I do know I cannot and never could get 300 miles out of a charge.

 

[DomB]

I don't follow it close enough and it's winter. I do know I cannot and never could get 300 miles out of a charge.

I had to use conserve today. From 50% I started a trip, which (doubled) got me to 286 miles in below freezing/freezing temps, which is almost exactly what I got when the car was new, so it looks pretty good. Conserve on my tires at 100 percent says 303. That is about 6.7% loss in cold but not ridiculously cold temps.

Separately, I cold soaked the car for the first time in a long time as we didn't have access to a plug. Temp was 14 degrees and the battery was at 26. I lost 6 percent overnight, which I have never seen before, but that was probably the battery using energy to keep from the temp dropping.

I was in the Poconos and experienced the horror of EA first hand. My preconditioned battery was drawing 25kw(!). I called customer service and they provided no actionable information. But then I saw on the app I could report an issue with a charger. Almost a minute later, I jumped up to the max for the station (150kw), so I figure they reset the unit I was using after I sent information through the app. I don't think EA will survive if they don't get their stuff together. What should have been a 20 minute charge was a 40 minute charge.

 

[DomB]

In case there was any doubt. The news is getting grim for EV mfg'ers. Thesis - EV makers, particularly called out Rivian and Lucid, are struggling with demand.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-startups-struggled-to-build-cars-now-they-struggle-to-sell-them-6bfff73c

 

[jasonwx]

my wife's friend's husband bought a 100k Lucid ...he might be the proud owner of the most expensive lawn ornament in history..

 

[Harvey]

That's kind of what I was saying here.

The (R+L) CEOs are talking about "historically high interest rates."

That's misdirection IMO. EVs were a fad for a while, and that period is over, for now at least. I get that it's hard for a CEO to say that.

 

[Peter Minde]

Someone once suggested that Tesla was in the business of selling. Carbon credits, not cars.

 

[x10003q]

Someone once suggested that Tesla was in the business of selling. Carbon credits, not cars.

Carbon credits kept Tesla operating for many years.
From 2016:
"Their manufacture is heavily subsidized — and their sale is heavily subsidized. Either way, the taxpayer is the one who gets the bill.
On the manufacturing end, Tesla got $1.3 billion in special “incentives” from the state of Nevada to build its battery factory there. This includes an exemption from having to pay any property taxes for the next 20 years. Another inducement was $195 million in transferable tax credits, which Tesla could sell for cash. California provides similar incentives, including $15 million to “create jobs” in the state.

Tesla does not make money by selling cars, either. It makes money by selling “carbon credits” to real car companies that make functionally and economically viable vehicles that can and do sell on the merits — but which are not “zero emissions” vehicles, as the electric Tesla is claimed to be."

Column: Elon Musk, crony capitalist king

Tesla could not build a single car without the government’s help

www.detroitnews.com