ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

Campgottagopee said:
The EV market will always be small due to price.
For the life of me I don't understand why our government, can't/won't, support both EV and ICE vehicles.
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I think this is true if Tesla and Rivian are the winners. If GM gets its act together, I think there will be affordable EVs. They dropped the price on the bolt to like 27k before rebate and under the new law subject to income limits it could get up to 10 or 12k I think in rebates.
 
Warp daddy said:
Point taken TJ ..

serious question : would the battery last that 450,000 miles ? If not ,,what's the replacement cost of a battery that for sake of illustration craps out at say 300k ?
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Oh yes, the economics on mainteance are pretty ridiculous. I recently went on the gov sight for fuel economy and a Rivian vs. a Yukon (about same size and utility) you would save something like 10k over a few years in fuel cost between the two for normalized driving.

That is setting aside the lesser maintenance etc. So I guess that 20k gap I was talking about even with a hybrid is probably closer to 10k over life.
 
Harvey said:
Kodak totally choked. They INVENTED the digital camera and deep-sixed it because they thought it would damage their film business. They were right!
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GM did the same with the first true EV. They only leased, and then in CA, and then called em all back and crushed it. It was way back maybe early 2000s.
 
DomB said:
I think this is true if Tesla and Rivian are the winners. If GM gets its act together, I think there will be affordable EVs. They dropped the price on the bolt to like 27k before rebate and under the new law subject to income limits it could get up to 10 or 12k I think in rebates.
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I think Honda and/or Toyota will be creating the highest quality and affordable EVs before anyone else.
 
Andy_ROC said:
Battery technology is evolving rapidly.
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Can you tell me more about this? When will affordable EVs got 500 miles? When will battery mining and recycling improve to the point where EVs are sustainable?

My questions are sincere. I hope you will open my eyes.
 
Harvey said:
When will affordable EVs go 500 miles?
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What is the reason you think 500 miles is necessary before a BEV is worth considering?

I drove the 2007 ICE minivan for a decade from NC to Lake Placid, Boston, and Chicago with only 300 miles as the maximum I could count on for highway driving.

My friend who has had a Tesla for a while managed to drive up to Lake Placid from NC in the winter time for his daughter's North Country School vacations. He would do the drive in just over a day in each direction because he's a small business owner who couldn't take much time off. Granted that Tesla Superchargers make charging during a long trip pretty straight forward. Bottom line is that even with only about 220 miles of range in the cold, he wasn't in danger of getting stuck for lack of enough battery power.

My RAV4 Prime PHEV has a range of 400-450 miles as a hybrid. I know some people think that's too low. They want 500 miles. I don't understand why. Not much difference when doing a 2000 mile drive out to Colorado in three days, with the longest day covering 800 miles.

The Chevy Bolt BEV has a range of 230-260 miles, depending on average speed. Less efficient at highway speeds so get more miles driving around town. Starts at $25,500 and seems to top out at around $30K.
 
MarzNC said:
What is the reason you think 500 miles is necessary before a BEV is worth considering?
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I never said this. 400 miles is fine, I was just typing fast. Basically how far do you want to drive without taking a break. 250 isn't enough IMO. If you only own one car.

I think when EV can go as far as other cars, and are cost competitive, and the batteries aren't enviro-disasters they will be widely accepted and make sense. I was looking for input on when it could happen.

I don't think too many people doubt most of the rest of your post. I think right now hybrids and pluggin hybrids are practical, and could make a huge difference in the amount carbon we put out. That wasn't what I was asking.

I also sense that Toyota isn't full speed ahead on EVs. Or Honda. I'm going to need a pickup in a couple years and the early info on the Tacoma pluggin looks like it will be leaning on the side power/offroad vs MPG. I want a pluggin Taco that is built for mileage. May or may not exist my time frame.
 
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