ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[Campgottagopee]

Folks also put salt on the roads in winter to melt the snow and ice.
What could go wrong?

Flooded Tesla EVs From Hurricane Ian Exploding All Over Florida

A series of Tesla models flooded from Florida's Hurricane Ian are beginning to explode according to multiple sources.

www.motorbiscuit.com

Besides being stranded along side the road when it's -10 out?

 

[Harvey]

Depends what state. 20% of electricity in the US is renewable

This is national. NY not too much different than the national average.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Emissions from Electric Vehicles

afdc.energy.gov

If you care about emissions, looking at those numbers hybrid or pluggin hybrid are the way to go. No range issues, far smaller batteries to mine and recycle, and pretty good emission improvement.

Pluggin hardly seems like worth the extra expense, but for SOME PEOPLE (short commutes, warm climates) there may be a bigger diff.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

If you care about emissions, looking at those numbers hybrid or pluggin hybrid are the way to go. No range issues, far smaller batteries to mine and recycle, and pretty good emission improvement.

I don't think that's right. For one thing, if you charge your battery at night, at least in NY that's almost entirely hydro and nuclear, so there's zero emissions. But the real program is to take the carbon out of the electric system. That requires wind and solar, but the electric system needs a huge amount of energy storage. California is already bumping up against the systems limit for taking solar. (Google "duck curve."). Parked EVs can provide batteries to absorb excess solar and carry you through when clouds bring solar down. Hybrids or hydrogen vehicles would not provide nearly as much battery capacity. Hybrids can reduce emisisons, but full battery EVs and a carbon free electric system is what environmentalists are shooting for.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

I've heard hydrogen mentioned a lot with regard to the future of transportation, but no one has advanced it beyond the drawing board. Does anyone know: what are the challenges?

Hydrogen is not dense enough for easy use, and it can make steel pressure vessels brittle. The pressure vessels you need to store H2 are probably too heavy for aviation. It probably can't be distributed to homes the way natural gas is, and it certainly couldn't be distributed by converting the natural gas system to H2.
You also need make it from electricity, which means to be emission free you need to build solar, nuclear or hydro. All those are technical problems which may or may not be solved soon.
Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be.

mm

 

[Campgottagopee]

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be.

mm

You bring great info into this conversation. Thanks.
If hydrogen will always be the fuel of the future then why mess around with EV's. Shouldn't we dump our money and research into that?

 

[Harvey]

I don't think that's right. For one thing, if you charge your battery at night, at least in NY that's almost entirely hydro and nuclear, so there's zero emissions. But the real program is to take the carbon out of the electric system. That requires wind and solar, but the electric system needs a huge amount of energy storage. California is already bumping up against the systems limit for taking solar. (Google "duck curve."). Parked EVs can provide batteries to absorb excess solar and carry you through when clouds bring solar down. Hybrids or hydrogen vehicles would not provide nearly as much battery capacity. Hybrids can reduce emisisons, but full battery EVs and a carbon free electric system is what environmentalists are shooting for.

mm

I was thinking, if you want to buy a car right now, or soon, the hybrid is not a bad choice. I want to get in and know I can drive 300 miles if necessary. That's just who I am, right now. Maybe a pluggin hybrid AWD Tacoma Pickup

 

[Harvey]

You bring great info into this conversation. Thanks.
If hydrogen will always be the fuel of the future then why mess around with EV's. Shouldn't we dump our money and research into that?

That's what I was getting at. There must be a reason that EV adoption is winning at this moment.

 

[Tjf1967]

You bring great info into this conversation. Thanks.
If hydrogen will always be the fuel of the future then why mess around with EV's. Shouldn't we dump our money and research into that?

Sarcasm

 

[MarzNC]

Pluggin hardly seems like worth the extra expense, but for SOME PEOPLE (short commutes, warm climates) there may be a bigger diff.

PHEV has worked well for me as a retiree. Although would be the same if I were doing WFH as my husband did the last few years he worked long before the pandemic. When I'm home for a month straight, I use about half a tank of gas. Not having to bother to go get gas is nice. I wasn't ready to pay attention in the way that is necessary for an EV on long driving trips of over 500 miles one-way from the house.

My husband figured that with the $7500 tax credit, the cost of the RAV4 Prime PHEV in 2020 was comparable to a RAV4 Hybrid. I can count on 400 miles range when only driving in hybrid (HV) mode away from home.

We have installed solar panels on the roof as part of redoing the roof. Not quite online yet. The inspection finally happened today. Once that happens, my EV miles won't be using the electric grid at all.

 

[MarzNC]

In Australia, the push for hydrogen vehicles seems to be for mining and other specialized businesses that are currently running machinery on diesel. Note that in general, Australia is fairly far behind when it comes to BEV infrastructure for assorted reasons. Doesn't help that the population isn't that big, the country is very far from where most cars are made, and they need right-hand drive. Although New Zealand shows that with government support, those factors aren't as important.

https://thehydrogentruck.com/