F Vail

[SayvilleSteve]

From @180 who knows...

"The pipes are all broken and rusted. The removed more than half the towers this past summer and placed them at other locations on the West Side. The trail is too wide and the snow never stayed. Very costly to run, too wide. Vail does not care about that trail except for natural snow. They are wisely letting half of it grow back again."

You posted this while I was responding above. Interesting to know, but my point on cost of snowmaking vs a new (bad) pod still stands.

 

[MarzNC]

Managers who have spent most of their career in the ski industry in the Rockies are probably not used to the concept of starting snowmaking in November and then continuing into early March. As compared to someone who has spent their career in the northeast. Someone who has been working in the southeast knows that automating existing snowguns, staying on top of potential pipe and water supply issues, and adding firepower with new and improved fan guns is the only way to stay open in the short and long run. Only way there has been skiing since the 1960s in the southeast is because snowmaking technology has continued to improve.

My sense is that top to bottom snowmaking at destination resorts in the west is relatively new. Used to be snowguns only went up to mid-mountain and/or covered the easiest blue route down from the top of a lift to a high point. Idea was to keep beginners and intermediates happy in December. Perhaps even open a few slopes for the Thanksgiving weekend to generate some buzz. Snowmaking staff went on to other jobs by early January. Or went home if they flew in from New Zealand or Australia.

 

[da-bum]

Man - I hope Hunter/Tannersville becomes a "Vail town". Any kind of town would be awesome fro the Hunter Village haha...
My house value has skyrocketed already. Businesses are starting up.
It's kind of awesome. I'm hoping Vail turns the mountain antics around.

I think reviving the local ski town is opposite of Vail's objective. Their idea was always to create destinations where your whole experience is Vail affiliated. They have stopped promoting local places to stay, or have those places offer discounts with a seasons pass, or provide discount lift tickets to them that would have incentivized people to stay there. Same with local eating establishments.

I don't mind the North, as it provide relatively quick access to the blacks away from the crowds of the frontside. Its just the infrequent grooming that almost always leave one of the black run icy. Doing Claire always involved traversing the steep narrows of upper Claire, which is usually icy and clogged with people. Westway had the most direct way straight to the steeps, but its never open so its moot.

 

[Harvey]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they don't blow tons of snow on West Way

I threw this question out to a closed? FB group I am in for Hunter skiers.

Another view point:

"Decades ago when the trail was first opened it was a disaster, people would reach the crest, fall, lose a ski and slide at high rates of speed, straight down to the skiers left and into the woods at the bottom of the trail. I rode the Y lift, which was the old F lift the day it opened, had to turn away and not watch, faces ripped off, bones broken, a woman with family watched her rag doll passed out all the way into down and into the woods, this wasn't one or two people it was a lot, a bunch of us went in to talk with Orville about putting up fencing, catch nets, and hay bales to prevent the absolute carnage we witnessed, it was really bad. The trail has my full respect because of what I saw happen opening day. If the conditions were good, good powdery snowmaking on day 1 it was good, otherwise unless the rare snowstorm happened, it was carnage. My guess is perhaps removing that trail from play eliminated lots of litigation type issues. It's an effort to maintain, I only saw it groomed top to bottom once, that must have been an effort. They had to block off the entrance and add the YOU BETTER BE AN EXPERT sign, in hopes that would keep some people off it that didn't belong there. It's a great trail that demands your full respect no matter how good an expert you call yourself because if you make a mistake you're going all the way and hitting the fence they put up."

and another:

"It would be easy enough to just say they don't make snow on Westway because Vail doesn't want to spend the money.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Vail and Epic is the worst thing to ever happen to Hunter. They don't have a clue how to run a northeast ski resort.

All that being said, it was not a trail that Peak chose to make snow on in recent years either. It simply requires too much snow, which gets blown off very easily.

It has nothing to do with the pipes being old or unusable. They can make snow on Westway any time they want. After they installed the six-pack on the main face, they moved the quad to Hunter West and took out the old chairs there. Since the quad ran over Westway, they blew snow on it the first year the quad was open to showcase it. But they only did that for one year. Clearly they realized it wasn't worth it.

It is what it is with Westway. You get to enjoy it when you get enough natural."

 

[jimmypete]

Vail didn't do Hunter North Peaks did, they are fun trails but hampered by being relatively short, but the is the Catskills

 

[jimmypete]

From @180 who knows...

"The pipes are all broken and rusted. The removed more than half the towers this past summer and placed them at other locations on the West Side. The trail is too wide and the snow never stayed. Very costly to run, too wide. Vail does not care about that trail except for natural snow. They are wisely letting half of it grow back again."

I am sure that Vail could figure out some way with plantings and snow fences and judicious cuts to bring back West Way and cover it with blown snow, let it switch back a little down the mountain, wouldn't be cheap but oh what a decent run there would do for the mountain, take pressure off of the front.Hunter has some very good but aggressive skiers when they a get funneled all the time to the front or Northside, it makes for a crappy time for everybody. Listen up Vail, you need to spend money to make money.

 

[SayvilleSteve]

Hunter has some very good but aggressive skiers

That, and the intel Harvey got about the steepness, is probably the main reason it's not open. Just a shame since it (and Annapurna and Clair's) are such great trails and the Hunter North expansion was such a disappointment. Great place to park, not so great to ski!

 

[x10003q]

You have to love a good, apocryphal tale about carnage on Westway (44).
"rode the Y lift, which was the old F lift the day it opened, had to turn away and not watch, faces ripped off, bones broken, a woman with family watched her rag doll passed out all the way into down and into the woods, this wasn't one or two people it was a lot, a bunch of us went in to talk with Orville about putting up fencing, catch nets, and hay bales to prevent the absolute carnage we witnessed, it was really bad."

I mean, come on now.

While Westway is steep, it has a similar profile to Outer Limits at Killington and somehow, Outer Limits continues to open ( without the carnage) every year since it was cut around 1978. Westway was cut around 1982. Unlike Vail, the Slutzkys were never cheap about blowing snow, but they were never big about blowing snow on Westway. There are clearly problems blowing snow on Westway based on prevailing winds, facing WNW, and cost. There might be a way to fix it, but maybe not.

However, there is zero reason not to blow snow on Annapurna and open the rest of Hunter West, unless you do not want to spend money. We will see what happens next year at Hunter. If Covid remains at a low level, the "lack of labor" excuses will be lies.
The Hunter West HSQ is important for spreading Hunter crowds. Not opening the West HSQ is a nightmare for skiers and riders at Hunter.

 

[Harvey]

Hey I asked a bunch of Hunter skiers why Westway never get snowmaking. These are people who have skied Hunter for decades, and it is their truth. I shared it.

However, there is zero reason not to blow snow on Annapurna and open the rest of Hunter West, unless you do not want to spend money.

That's a reason. You may not think it's a legit reason, but again, it's not your money, or mine. For whatever reason, you've now had three different owners who all saw it the same way.

 

[raisingarizona]

That whole damn ski area is a bloody mess from a design standpoint. In all honesty it’s no spot for a ski area. There’s much better places to naturally place ski runs in the Catskills.

Ive never skied Westway but if it’s icy it looks awfully dangerous for the average skier. City folks are notoriously bad at assessing risk and the carnage claim I can imagine is legit. If it is legit that’s a nightmare for patrol, management and court costs let alone the injured skiers.

I’m still standing by my claim that the mega pass affect will eventually be a good thing for some privately owned areas like Plattekill, but we shall see.