F Vail

[Harvey]

You also have a right to run a ski blog that is informative. Thank you for doing so.

Thanks for that Rip. But, I'm not sure this place solving any problems, but it can be fun.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

I wish I had a solution, my own fear is that at large we've lost control as common folk in the current economic systems...The reality is that this duopoly effect is rampant in many industries, capitalism relies on their being winners and losers, some deserve to lose but I think the real losers are us as "consumers".

The skiing business is no different than any other business that has become more and more concentrated among fewer firms in the last 40 years. At first, consumers all love the benefits that come from new investment, until they realize that they are doing it to suppress competition, not to pay you higher wages or take less money from you. The effect is more noticeable if you live Upstate or other places where the economy has been hollowed out by industry consolidation.

The economic system requires that some people accumulate wealth, but history tells us that extreme wealth inequality leads to political instability. Vail is an example of the process, and that's why it's difficult to discuss this without going political.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

Translated you are saying that capitalism should be regulated, and it is to a large extent. "Capitalists" drive on publicly funded roads and cash their social security checks. The disagreements between people come down to where on the continium we should fall. Are you advocating regulation on Vail?

I think the history of the ski business, going back to when Vail bought ABasin, Keystone and Breckenridge and everything that's happened since, shows that anti-trust regulation has not been aggressive enough. Skiing may actually be the least important example of that.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

The only vote that really matters is the vote you make with your money.

The problem with that is that market concentration means that you have no place else to take your money. You can see that in skiing now. If you don't upfront a bunch of money to Vail or Ikon your choices are limited to small mountains with short seasons, or worse, spending winter in Florida.

mm

 

[MarzNC]

The problem with that is that market concentration means that you have no place else to take your money. You can see that in skiing now. If you don't upfront a bunch of money to Vail or Ikon your choices are limited to small mountains with short seasons, or worse, spending winter in Florida.

mm

That seems like a northeast viewpoint. At least based on reading descriptions of the Indy locations out west there are quite a few ski areas that are a bargain and have over 500 acres.

In the southeast, the only options are small mountains with 100% snowmaking and a short season so lift tickets have been relatively high compared to other regions. There have been long lines on weekends for decades. I think they got longer after people from the northeast and midwest starting moving to the Sun Belt in the 1980s.

 

[Campgottagopee]

There’s beauty in alone time out in the forest Camp. Totally embrace that. I guess it’s not for everyone but I get a shit ton of it while working and I absolutely love it.

For sure. I've done a handful of solo camping trips as well as I normally get 2 nites at camp solo, now more like 4. I'm now into it and totally stoked for it. Guess I can share my hunting crew for a few days.....lol

 

[Harvey]

If you don't upfront a bunch of money to Vail or Ikon your choices are limited to small mountains with short seasons,

Last year I skied Killington and Hunter one time, but spent the bulk of my money at small mountains with short seasons.

 

[Ripitz]

A few years ago I had a chance to ski a few places with different ownership styles in one season. We had SKI3 passes so we skied Whiteface, Gore and Belle. We were members at Greylock. We skied Platty and Magic. I took a trip to ski Big Sky and was invited to the Yellowstone Club. I really enjoyed all of my experiences and the variety it offered. The combination of government, small private, corporate and member club run ski areas was really cool to see. I think choices are good. Do I have things to bitch about? Sure. Am I allowed? I would hope so. Whiteface couldn’t get their lifts open. Gore was cold as fuck. Big Sky was crazy expensive. The outhouse at Greylock was super smelly and the Yellowstone Club is mad creepy. Did I have an awesome time? Absolutely!

Since that time, Vail has moved into the Northeast in a big way. Do they have a right to do that? Sure. Do they have a right to make a profit? Yes. The problem I have is that they are not just participating in the eastern ski business they are dominating it. Did they really need to drop their prices that low in one shot to acquire all of those customers? Could they not have done that over time? When I was looking at Bromley for the new Mom and Pop thread I saw their season pass is $1,095 and that’s for only one mountain. You get a one day ticket to Jiminy and Canmore, their sister resorts, as a perk. What kind of effect does Vail’s aggression have on them? They have been a New England classic since 1935. People will say that mega passes makes skiing more affordable. It doesn’t. There always has been midweek deals, ski and stay packages, gas station vouchers, ski shop discounted tickets, buddy passes, bring a bottle of water to donate, whatever. There are ways to ski on the cheap.

Animosity towards Vail is nothing new. I saw “Vail sucks” bumper stickers 30 years ago when I took my first trip to Colorado. I don’t think it’s unwarranted and I don’t see it stopping anytime soon.

 

[Low Angle Life]

and the Yellowstone Club is mad creepy.

Like on some illuminati shit?

 

[raisingarizona]

The problem with that is that market concentration means that you have no place else to take your money. You can see that in skiing now. If you don't upfront a bunch of money to Vail or Ikon your choices are limited to small mountains with short seasons, or worse, spending winter in Florida.

mm

Hey now, the bass fishing down there is pretty darn awesome