F Vail

[Ripitz]

Here's an unpopular opinion:

I'm tired of skiers who whine about businesses doing business. Many of us, myself included, have benefited, on paper at least, from the shit show that is the market economy. Somehow Vail isn't supposed to do what many of us do at work every single day?

I'm not saying the system is good or just or fair. But if you're going to reject it, reject it. Don't buy the product.

I REALLY don't like what is happening to skiing. I don't want Vail to buy the mountains I love. I hate to see the economic pressure that megapasses are applying to independents.

But I don't have any right to be outraged by it. I'm part of the problem.

I think the difference is that ski area operators are in the hospitality business. Customer satisfaction and public perception plays a huge part. Voicing concerns about guest experiences and giving feedback both positive and negative ultimately helps shape the product. It comes with the territory and is an integral part of the system. Weren’t you vocal about your displeasure with the paid parking at Gore? Were you wrong to speak up about it? Does it not matter now because you accept it?

Not sure what you mean about being part of the problem. Because you have a business? Because we live in a capitalist society? Because you’re a skier?

Yes, ski areas have to make money to stay in business. They also need to keep their customers happy to do so.

 

[raisingarizona]

I think the difference is that ski area operators are in the hospitality business. Customer satisfaction and public perception plays a huge part. Voicing concerns about guest experiences and giving feedback both positive and negative ultimately helps shape the product. It comes with the territory and is an integral part of the system. Weren’t you vocal about your displeasure with the paid parking at Gore? Were you wrong to speak up about it? Does it not matter now because you accept it?

Not sure what you mean about being part of the problem. Because you have a business? Because we live in a capitalist society? Because you’re a skier?

Yes, ski areas have to make money to stay in business. They also need to keep their customers happy to do so.

I see your point.

It’s hard to see your favorite ski area change before your eyes and start to push the dedicated local following away. It’s happening here in a big way. I’m past the point of giving a damn. It is what it is.

 

[Campgottagopee]

I see your point.

It’s hard to see your favorite ski area change before your eyes and start to push the dedicated local following away. It’s happening here in a big way. I’m past the point of giving a damn. It is what it is.

This happens at smaller areas too. It happened here at Greek Peak. People don't like change, I don't like change as it's an uncomfortable feeling.

 

[Campgottagopee]

I think I pissed of one of the mods at AZ with this line of reasoning. ?

That place is still around? Amazing. Wonder if my account is still good, that could be interesting ?

 

[Ripitz]

I see your point.

It’s hard to see your favorite ski area change before your eyes and start to push the dedicated local following away. It’s happening here in a big way. I’m past the point of giving a damn. It is what it is.

I saw it in Big Sky and is a big reason why I don’t live there anymore.

 

[Harvey]

I think the difference is that ski area operators are in the hospitality business. Customer satisfaction and public perception plays a huge part.

IMO this is true in almost every business, not just hospitality. (BTW I work in hospitality, indirectly.)

Not sure what you mean about being part of the problem. Because you have a business? Because we live in a capitalist society? Because you’re a skier?

Yes, ski areas have to make money to stay in business. They also need to keep their customers happy to do so.

Weren’t you vocal about your displeasure with the paid parking at Gore?

I have been upfront about that, maybe not here but in the AZ thread. I agreed with the mod, it changed Gore's brand. I hated it.

Paid Parking at Gore Mountain

I had a chance to see it in action.

nyskiblog.com

I still dont like it. But what is changed for me, is that I no longer believe I have a right to demand that Gore provide the product I want with a pricing model I like. My only right is to vote with my wallet.

I'm saying that it's duplicitous to profit personally from the free market, and then picket when others do the same.

Not sure what you mean about being part of the problem. Because you have a business? Because we live in a capitalist society? Because you’re a skier?

All of it. I enjoy a long season created by snowmaking. That drives the cost of everything up. I've profited from capitalism. And I likely ski Hunter this year. It ain't right for me to pretend my shit don't stink.

 

[Low Angle Life]

Business doing business in a capitalist economy is all well and good (not my personal belief but I understand for many it is) but whats happening in skiing is the same thing that happened in the cable industry and so many other industries under a "free market". It's the duopoly effect where two major players are effectively able to consolidate a market through acquisition and other forces. These controlling companies can collude to set their rates, product packages and customer experience leaving essentially two equally shitty option for the consumer. Epic-Ikon = Verizon-Optimum. I've worked for a company in an effective duopoly, they didn't give a shit about their customers, after all there was only one alternative.

 

[raisingarizona]

This happens at smaller areas too. It happened here at Greek Peak. People don't like change, I don't like change as it's an uncomfortable feeling.

Humans hate change. It’s scary.

As a trail builder im involved with a lot of reroutes and rebuilds of old trails and I get a lot of hate for it. Change is a trigger. Im a little weird in the way that I embrace it and try to see the positive in the change or an opportunity to do better.

So what if the Arizona Snowbowl is no longer a place I care to be because of the crowds and disrespectful young, college kid crowd that unapologetically runs our kids over. Im seeing a motivator to get my ass in gear to start figuring out how I can spend 6+ weeks a winter at Taos. I see a net gain in that move!

I think we sometimes need to let go of our pre-perceived notions of how we think things should be and let life happen. It will take you on a cool ride when you do imho.

 

[raisingarizona]

I saw it in Big Sky and is a big reason why I don’t live there anymore.

Oh yeah, we used to say (and still do) that Jackson wasn’t part of Wyoming and now Bozeman is no longer a part of Montana.

 

[Harvey]

Business doing business in a capitalist economy is all well and good (not my personal belief but I understand for many it is) but whats happening in skiing is the same thing that happened in the cable industry and so many other industries under a "free market". It's the duopoly effect where two major players are effectively able to consolidate a market through acquisition and other forces. These controlling companies can collude to set their rates, product packages and customer experience leaving essentially two equally shitty option for the consumer. Epic-Ikon = Verizon-Optimum. I've worked for a company in an effective duopoly, they didn't give a shit about their customers, after all there was only one alternative.

I agree with all of this. Translated you are saying that capitalism should be regulated, and it is to a large extent. "Capitalists" drive on publicly funded roads and cash their social security checks. The disagreements between people come down to where on the continium we should fall. Are you advocating regulation on Vail?