Big Sky Conditions

[Ripitz]

You're going to confuse Harv more.

FIFY

 

[Harvey]

Such bullshit. I skied Squaw for a couple weeks when it was called that. What is that 4000? I can imagine.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Harv, there's no way you can grasp Big Sky's enormity.

 

[Ripitz]

If you are rich, or have rich friends, and include the Yellowstone Club, it’s bigger than Whistler Blackcomb. Making it the largest in North America. YC is 2,700 skiable acres and BS is 5,800 for a total of 8,500, which spans 7.25 miles. I believe in you Harv.

 

[tirolski]

Mixed feelings. Mostly sad.
... We now have direct flights from Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Houston, etc . It sounds like we are in Mayberry at the base area. These people are, mostly, poor at understanding these newfangled lifts. The new, fastest chair ever never runs full speed and stops 5 times per ride because people fall, six at a time, every ride. But it does have a bubble and heated seats.
New Tram. They’re going to dump 75 people up there at a time. This will ruin the skiing on the peak. It’s big but not that big. 90% of people still go down Liberty. This will create a line on Shedhorn trying to get them out. More IKONers will bump out Marx and Lenin. Nobody in charge cares. Too much money to be worried about skiing. The growth expected around here is staggering.

Sounds to be it’s turning into lame rich dude’s going to a tricky Super Walmart.

It’s so big there’s likely places ya can get away from them.

 

[snoloco]

There's a lot to unpack here, so I'll try to cover various points.

Big Sky has outgrown its tram. They got to the point where the option was to have 2 hour lines every weekend, or make it an upcharge, so they made it an upcharge. It was built in 1995, when Big Sky had a fraction of the skier visits they do now. I don't know the exact number, but I know it's over 500k now, which was considered a far-fetched dream back then. Even if they didn't have capacity issues, that tram is still on borrowed time. The bottom terminal is situated on a rock glacier. That means there's several feet of rock on top of ice, and it moves like a glacier. The terminal has actually slid several feet downhill and started to lean. While the system is designed to accommodate some ground movement, and the lift is perfectly safe now, there will be a point where it gets to be too much.

Boyne has not yet revealed the capacity of the new tram, but it will be more than the current one, both in terms of the number of people in the cabins, and total throughput. I don't see it causing too much of a problem with the terrain. Nearby Jackson Hole has a much bigger tram, and that doesn't seem to cause the terrain to get skied off. The change of the bottom terminal, and extension of the lift is necessitated by ground movement, but it will have the added benefit of a direct transfer from the gondola. This means that combined with the gondola, there's direct access from base to summit, so anyone, whether they ski down or not, can at least go to the summit. I wouldn't be surprised if there is more foot traffic than skier traffic. It also allows the tram to operate year-round.

As for the gondola, it accomplishes several goals. While the upgrade of Swift Current from a quad to a bubble 6 helps, the fact is, they really need 2 lifts out of the main base, going in that direction. The only lift from the looker's right side of the base is the Explorer Double. It's a Heron-Poma from 1973, the resort's last remaining original lift. Just like the tram, the resort has outgrown this lift, and it is inadequate as the only beginner lift on that side of the resort. The gondola replaces Explorer and is extended to where the old Gondola One ended, creating a second route from the base to the upper mountain. From the top, you'll be able to access any lift that you can get to from Swift Current, though Swift Current is still better positioned for lapping the intermediate runs that return to the base. However, the gondola does provide direct access to the easiest trails that return to the base, making for excellent teaching terrain. Gondolas work well as beginner lifts, though few resorts can afford them for this application. One instructor can take an entire group lesson in one cabin, and not worry about if kids can't get the safety bar down on a chair. It will also provide a way for foot traffic to access the tram in all seasons. Capacity is said to be similar to that of Ramcharger 8, and the combined capacity between Ramcharger 8, Swift Current 6, and the gondola will be around 10k an hour.

The lodge facilities that are located at the gondola stations also solve yet another problem. Big Sky has outgrown its base facilities, and the gondola relocates the ski school to a new mid-mountain facility. Big Sky also lacks an upper mountain lodge on that side of the resort. Only Andesite has it with Everett's 8800 at the top of Ramcharger 8. The lodge at the top of the gondola will fulfill that need, and you'll be able to go between lapping Powder Seeker, the tram, Shedhorn, and Dakota without returning to the base.

I also want to address the naysayer comments in this thread. I find it just totally whacked out to be complaining about improvements Boyne is making at Big Sky. Locals are presumably there a lot, and are aware of the resort's shortcomings, which Boyne is making efforts to address. Clearly, they are trying to upgrade Big Sky so that the resort can accommodate a million plus skier visits in the future, and in doing so, they're providing an experience that's unlike any other resort in North America. That's better than what Vail has done where they let their resort's get overrun and didn't make improvements to accommodate more skiers. Yes, there might be more people on some trails, and yes things might get tracked out a bit sooner, but Big Sky can easily handle many more skier visits than they do now, and more comfortably than Vail Resorts is. Yes, I know there's often a desire among locals for there to be fewer skiers. Not only does this mentality reek of selfishness and entitlement, but I don't think you'll like the result if they actually tried to do that. Either they need to dramatically raise prices, implement reservation systems, or both. You'll end up paying more, not being able to ski on all the days you want to, or both. You need to consider all the benefits and drawbacks of what you're supporting.

 

[Ripitz]

That’s a good synopsis sno. No doubt something has gotta happen. As far as the gondola getting to every lift that Swifty does I’m pretty sure you can’t get to Shedhorn from there. I think the traverse above Rice Bowl that you would take to Cow Flats runs toward the Bowl but I could be wrong about that, it’s been a while. (Edit: I think you are right and you can get there it’s just that it sucks) As BigD mentioned Shedhorn is gonna get smashed with lines. It already does. I think they should run a surface lift at the bottom of Screaming Left near the Shedhorn Grill to kick up to the Duck Walk traverse. This would eleviate the lines at Shedhorn since the majority of skiers coming off the summit are coming down Liberty and their only other option is to take Skittles all the way back to base. It would most likely get wrecked by avalanches however and people have no idea how to ride them. Better yet, I think they should move Exploder to Cow Flats at the bottom of Paradise so you can kick up to the top of Swifty and back to the Bowl and effectively ski out the last remaining corner of nirvana. But what the fuck do I know I’m not an engineer, just a skier. Hate to see that lift leave. I’m pretty sure you rode it. I only rode it once during the All-Lift-Race that we would have won except for the cheaters at Lone Mountain Sports. End of an era. Skiing is, for the most part, a selfish endeavor. As far as entitlement, the locals prefer the good ole days that’s all. I suspect you would too if you had lived them.

 

[snoloco]

That’s a good synopsis sno. No doubt something has gotta happen. As far as the gondola getting to every lift that Swifty does I’m pretty sure you can’t get to Shedhorn from there. I think the traverse above Rice Bowl that you would take to Cow Flats runs toward the Bowl but I could be wrong about that, it’s been a while. (Edit: I think you are right and you can get there it’s just that it sucks)

The new gondola will end where the old Gondola One ended. There is a traverse called CJ Road that takes you to Cow Flats, which is the same trail you take to access it from Swift Current. It's flat, but workable. Certainly no worse than the traverses at Gore.

As BigD mentioned Shedhorn is gonna get smashed with lines. It already does. I think they should run a surface lift at the bottom of Screaming Left near the Shedhorn Grill to kick up to the Duck Walk traverse. This would alleviate the lines at Shedhorn since the majority of skiers coming off the summit are coming down Liberty and their only other option is to take Skittles all the way back to base.

Shedhorn had zero lines when I was there. It's a high speed quad, which was the old Ramcharger that was relocated. The original lift there was a double that was also relocated from Ramcharger. It was built in 1995, same year as the tram. It's the main egress from Liberty Bowl and serves some terrain of its own. You can get to the base from Liberty Bowl via Skittles Road. This is done early season, because it takes a lot of snow to open Shedhorn. Shedhorn is not going to get much longer lines as a result of the new tram, since it has far higher capacity than even the new tram will.

It would most likely get wrecked by avalanches however and people have no idea how to ride them. Better yet, I think they should move Exploder to Cow Flats at the bottom of Paradise so you can kick up to the top of Swifty and back to the Bowl and effectively ski out the last remaining corner of nirvana.

You can already get from Shedhorn to Powder Seeker by taking Duck Walk to Jay Walk.

But what the fuck do I know I’m not an engineer, just a skier. Hate to see that lift leave. I’m pretty sure you rode it.

I did ride it when I was there, just for the credit.

Skiing is, for the most part, a selfish endeavor. As far as entitlement, the locals prefer the good ole days that’s all. I suspect you would too if you lived them.

True on both counts.

 

[MarzNC]

Such bullshit. I skied Squaw for a couple weeks when is was called that. What is that 4000? I can imagine.

I don't remember Squaw from my last mid-season trip in 2010 that well, but it doesn't give the same impression of "huge" that Lone Peak does. Especially when seen from a distance. I wasn't skiing that much off-piste terrain back then.

Sometimes It's not so much total acreage as about the way the terrain is laid out. Palisades is 3600 acres with another 2400 acres for Alpine Meadows. They are distinct areas and will continue to be even when linked by a gondola. Bachelor gives an impression of "huge" with 360º skiing on one volcanic peak for a total of 4300 acres. Mammoth is 3500 acres but most of the skiable terrain is on one side of the ridge.

If I were starting at the top of Liberty (most straightforward way down) after getting off the tram, and was heading all the way down to the cat track, and then across to the front side, and finishing by going down any one of those groomers, I'd want to allow 45 minutes, assuming good visibility and good snow. Granted I'm not interested in skiing fast on steeps, but rather making plenty of C-turns and stopping to enjoy the view every so often.

I've been trying to get back to Big Sky for a couple years. Almost scheduled a trip for Feb 2022 but feel a bit lucky that didn't work out given the current snow conditions. Making plans for Feb 2023. The gondola and new tram aren't going to be finished any time soon, so I'd like to see how the place feels with all three bubble lifts operational.

 

[Ripitz]

I’ve never heard that called CJ Road. We always called it Rice Bowl cat track. There is a monster gap jump over it that always gave me the heebie jeebies contemplating it. Anyway, you are right. I definitely took it when G2 was there on the way to Buffalo Jump. Would never go that way to Shedhorn. Would always go to Shedhorn from the top of Swifty and cut across the Paradise and Bacon Rind trees to Dude Park. Got three untracked powder runs over there by myself once, as verified by the lifty, by going that route. Everyone had gone to the tram which had a delayed opening and they hadn’t dropped the rope yet on Cow Flats. I am familiar with the lift moves. I was there in 96’ when the avalanche took it out. The lines most definitely get big back there especially on powder days. It’s not just tram traffic but also people doing laps. When it’s crappy or warm, which happens often because of its low elevation and sunny exposure, people don’t bother. The only way out is Skittles, which is also a new one for me, it was always called Middle Road. Liberty Bowl to base is 6.5 miles. The last 4 is a boring cat track. Putting Exploder at Paradise or Chuck’s Run would bring traffic back to the Bowl and all the front side trails which is where they want to be anyway. You definitely know your BS shit Sno and that’s coming from someone who has skied over 400 more days there than you. You’ll have a bright future if you apply yourself. Have fun in the meantime.