The Storm Skiing Journal comes down hard on ORDA

[x10003q]

New York State to Build $30 Million Lodge at Money-Losing Ski Area

Is this the best way to support winter recreation in New York?

www.stormskiing.com

 

[Harvey]

I didn't think it was coming down hard. He gave points pro and con and made some suggestions on how NY could support the whole industry.

 

[Brownski]

I was just on my way here to share the link. Another home run from Stu in my opinion.

 

[tirolski]

I didn't think it was coming down hard. He gave points pro and con and made some suggestions on how NY could support the whole industry.

Ya was gonna write something up the topic, maybe.
Ya said ya’d prefer Gore to change slow or something like that.
Curious or yer own thoughts.
Can wait patiently.

 

[x10003q]

The article has a lot of partial truths. It takes the whole article before there are hints that the real money losers are the Olympic Venues, not necessarily Gore and WF. I think he also combined all the visits for all the venues. That is pretty shady. These visits are all broken out in the ORDA financial releases. I also think I have seen separate accounting for all the ski areas and venues, but I have not looked in a while.

The whole tax discussion is crap, too. I also wonder how many of the smaller ski areas pay very little tax (or no tax) to NYS due to accounting methods. They collect Sales Tax, but that comes from the customers. It is quite possible that even the the areas with high speed lifts do not pay tax to NYS. Additionally, making high speed lifts a point of comparison is also weak. Most of the other ski areas without a high speed lift in NYC are under 1000 vertical.

I do not really agree with all his arguments, but I agree that ORDA has failed to follow their mandate.

 

[Harvey]

I will grant you most of those points. He missed much of the nuance, but he gave visibility to an important topic.

What i agree with was the idea that when orda gets 100m there should be some kind of favorable LOAN program for the privates. The NYSERDA snowgun thing put together a few years ago was a dream that came to fruition.

Here was the proposal made in the original NYSB article that most attribute to SAM:

Plattekill’s Proposal

• State backed interest-free loans for the private resorts that compete with Belleayre.

• A commitment by New York to refrain from predatory lift ticket pricing.

• True joint marketing between the ski areas to increase skier visits to the Catskills.

• Promotion of a regulatory environment that encourages equivalent terrain and infrastructure/sewer expansion at the private resorts.

Laszlo Vajtay on the Belleayre Mountain Expansion

The Belleayre Mountain expansion could hurt the local businesses it will compete against. My ski area, Plattekill, is one of those businesses.

nyskiblog.com

 

[tirolski]

Additionally, making high speed lifts a point of comparison is also weak. Most of the other ski areas without a high speed lift in NYC are under

Some of those elevators in NYC are high speed but the ski conditions suck.

 

[tirolski]

Stu’s first sentence is:

New York, like many states, owns ski areas.

How many does it take to make it be many?

Anybody know of any other state in the USA owning lift served ski areas.?

 

[Johnny V.]

Anybody know of any other state in the USA owning lift served ski areas.?

One is Cannon NH. I believe NH also owns Sunapee, but leases it out.

 

[tirolski]

One is Cannon NH. I believe NH also owns Sunapee, but leases it out.

OK. NH could be considered as 1 and if ya count NY that adds to 2.
But NY owns 3 so, We’re #1.

NYS’s ORDA leases out stuff too.
Found this old thread.

Non Region Specific - State owned / operated ski resorts ?

Anyone know of any state owned and operated ski area in the US other than in New York ? All of the resorts I know of are on private land or privately operated on leased state or federal land. Those ski co's / areas are in the ski business to make money or are at least trying in the business I've...

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