Fast Tracks: Paying to Cut the Line

[snoloco]

This is the amusement park model all the way: charge ridiculously low season pass prices, which gets guests to the park, and then nickel and dime them with extras (including line cutting privileges).

To some extent yes, but season passes for skiing cost way more than season passes for amusement parks. Killington has one of the most expensive passes in the east.

At some parks, the line cutting option is $50-100+. If you are a frequent guest, the season pass is negligible and a low sunk cost (many parks are as low as $200ish, and more months than a ski season). So you splurge for line cutting when you go on busy days and want to get a ton of rides (aka powder day equivalent). And wait in lines when you are just there because you have a season pass and it beats not being there.

That's certainly true, though I think passholders at ski resorts visit a lot more than passholders at amusement parks.

Where this gets nasty is the more people that buy line cutting, the more it becomes necessary for other people to buy line cutting. If no one does it, then no one needs it. So as more people buy into the program, the more it becomes necessary to have in order to have even a small amount of fun. At amusement parks, it can sometimes be the difference between a 2 minute or 2 hour wait, depending how the line merging happens.

You can still have massive lines even with no way to cut them if there are enough people at the amusement park, or on the mountain. This is not a prisoner's dilemma situation. Also, with the Six Flags system, the Flash Pass wait time is based on the actual wait time, so that limits the effect on the regular line. With the Cedar Fair system, it is possible to reduce a 2 hour wait down to a fraction of that. Since lift lines don't ever get to 2 hours, that limits the potential time savings.

If all the majors all do it together, then there are very few alternatives for typical skiers. And that ain't people on this forum, average skiers don't know Plattekill et al even exist. Joe Average skier will pay for this, they are already putting up $1k-10k+ for a family trip of skiing frozen groomers, what is an extra hundred to them so they can get more runs on their two or three yearly ski trips?

There isn't as much incentive to pay to cut lines if the potential time savings is limited. Again, you're not making a 2 hour wait into 10 minutes, you're taking at most 15 minutes down to maybe 5. You also have alternative lifts available for most terrain. If you want to ski Cascade at Killington, you can take the K1 which will probably have a line on a weekend, or take the Canyon Quad which will have no line. If you want to go on Millennium Force at Cedar Point, the only way you're getting on is to wait in the regular line which usually exceeds an hour, or pay to skip it with Fast Lane.

You already have a season pass to a given area and it is a foot plus powder day and the resort is busy. Are you honestly not going to buy a cut the line pass if it is available? You'll complain like heck, but you're going to buy it because otherwise, you'll wait many times longer and get many times less runs... and the powder is going to get tracked up many times faster before you get your next run in...

The point you are again missing is that lift lines are on average way shorter than roller coaster lines. When's the last time you waited an hour for a lift? I've never waited more than 15 minutes for a lift at Killington and most of the time I don't wait at all.

To be clear, I am 100% opposed to what Powdr is doing, but I also don't buy into the "sky is falling" narrative like some of you. Maybe I'm wrong and Killington is ruined forever. It's my home mountain this season, so I guess I'll end up finding out either way.

 

[snoloco]

Yeah, this Fast Tracks seems to be a Cedar Point equivalent, if you are going with theme park parallels.

That is true, except for the capacity difference between lifts and roller coasters, and the fact that the lift isn't the main attraction, it's the run down, and you often have different options for which lift to take.

On average days I bet this new offering doesn’t have much effect on lift lines in general. Where it may get ugly is when/if, like on a powder day, lots and lots of people buy the Fast Tracks access. In Syndrome’s immortal words…if everyone is special (Super), no one is! Imagine the Bogner set who paid for their whole family to have shorter lines, only for the lines not to be much shorter.

I think a more common scenario will be a bunch of people who don't understand the mountain buy Fast Tracks access in advance, get to the mountain, and realize they don't need it. I was at Killington on several March weekends last year and many of the lifts included on Fast Tracks were ski-on. They're running this all the way to April 10.

 

[MarzNC]

Reading today's posts makes it sound like that a family who wants to ski Killington on a weekend must get Fast Tracks or else they will have a bad time. Are the lines that bad every weekend?

Also seems to be the feeling that an unlimited number of Fast Tracks will be sold. All the announcements I've seen make it pretty clear that the number of Fast Tracks will be limited. Once they are sold out, that will be it for the day. That means there will be ongoing control of how many are made available. With the experience of having to limit day tickets to satisfy nebulous capacity limits last season, I would think picking reasonably low numbers for Fast Passes so avoid too much push back when those are operational shouldn't be that hard.

 

[MarzNC]

I think a more common scenario will be a bunch of people who don't understand the mountain buy Fast Tracks access in advance, get to the mountain, and realize they don't need it. I was at Killington on several March weekends last year and many of the lifts included on Fast Tracks were ski-on. They're running this all the way to April 10.

I agree.

It's weird that the Fast Tracks will be available every day of the season.

 

[MarzNC]

Probably doesn't matter to folks around here, but at Bachelor essentially all the lifts will be included in Fast Tracks. There are a dozen lifts that serve 4300 acres, all on one huge volcanic mountain, 360 degrees skiable. The nearest big city is Portland. Very different than a multiple peak resort like Killington that is within driving distance of millions of people from more than one metropolitan area. Bachelor locals are not happy either.

 

[Harvey]

a ton of rides (aka powder day equivalent)

ROFLMAO

When I went to Busch Gardens with my daughter... we just hung with her in lines. I see no reason to ride. Often if we wanted to wait in line the whole time with her, we have to walk through the ride, to get out to the other side.

One time, just to prove to N that I wasn't a complete loser, I sat down next to her and buckled in. She screamed, and I wasn't expecting it. She asked me more than once if I was going to have a heart attack. Great stoke kid.

It was a wood coaster, and I hadn't been on something like this in maybe 50 years, if ever. I don't remember coasters from my youth hammering you that hard, you really felt like you had to hold on. It was fun, and I was scared too.

Back on topic: I get that this is what every other attraction does. I just don't want skiing to be like every other attraction. It's not exactly a logical view point.

Do people love Kingda Ka as much as I love Lower Steilhang?

 

[Harvey]

All the announcements I've seen make it pretty clear that the number of Fast Tracks will be limited. Once they are sold out, that will be it for the day. That means there will be ongoing control of how many are made available. With the experience of having to limit day tickets to satisfy nebulous capacity limits last season, I would think picking reasonably low numbers for Fast Passes so avoid too much push back when those are operational shouldn't be that hard.

I agree, they might start off rough, but then they could get it dialed in, optimizing for revenue and whininess.

Seriously though, I bet they watch it closely.

Still. Killington!

 

[snoloco]

Reading today's posts makes it sound like that a family who wants to ski Killington on a weekend must get Fast Tracks or else they will have a bad time. Are the lines that bad every weekend?

I've been there multiple President's Weekends and one MLK. Do some lines get long? Yes. Did I avoid them for the most part? Also yes.

Also seems to be the feeling that an unlimited number of Fast Tracks will be sold. All the announcements I've seen make it pretty clear that the number of Fast Tracks will be limited. Once they are sold out, that will be it for the day. That means there will be ongoing control of how many are made available. With the experience of having to limit day tickets to satisfy nebulous capacity limits last season, I would think picking reasonably low numbers for Fast Passes so avoid too much push back when those are operational shouldn't be that hard.

I don't think that's true. Cedar Point claims that limited quantities of fast lane wristbands are available, yet they don't really ever sell out, even if the Fast Lane queue exceeds an hour. I've never been there, but since I'm fairly connected with the roller coaster community, this is what I've heard from multiple sources. Powdr is just trying to encourage people to buy Fast Tracks access early for fear of missing out. Even at amusement parks, I think it's a terrible idea to buy any skip the line access early, because there's always the chance that it ends up being less crowded than anticipated and you don't need it. I was at Six Flags Great Adventure a couple weeks ago, and expected it to be very crowded, but it wasn't and I got on 9 roller coasters in 3 hours with no Flash Pass.

I agree.

It's weird that the Fast Tracks will be available every day of the season.

It's designed for western resorts that have more consistent crowds throughout the week. Killington is very weekend-heavy.

Do people love Kingda Ka as much as I love Lower Steilhang?

It definitely has its fans. I've very much enjoyed the rides I've had on it. Similar to Lower Steilhang, it sometimes isn't consistently open. It breaks down often and can't run in any rain at all.

 

[Ripitz]

It’s no wonder why alpine touring is one of the fastest growing segments of the sport.

 

[MarzNC]

It's designed for western resorts that have more consistent crowds throughout the week.

I don't think that's true.

I know Snowbird is also much busier Fri, Sat, Sun. That's based on knowing several few people who live and work in SLC who ski Snowbird regularly on weekends. Even during late season, there are clearly more locals on weekends at Alta. I ski more at Alta, but do pop over into Mineral Basin for a few runs in the mornings at times.

Copper is popular with locals who drive for day trips, as well as people who like slopeside lodging. Parking reservations were pretty hard to get on Saturdays last season. That is a good indication that the slopes are more crowded on weekends.

Bachelor locals are mostly from Bend. But there are also people who drive a few hours from southern Oregon for ski weeks. An old friend does that several times a season.