F Vail

[Andy_ROC]

The EB5 immigration folks are getting riled up too now, allegedly.

Vail Resorts is threatening immigration status of foreign investors in Mount Snow project, Vermont regulators allege

Vermont regulators this month issued a cease-and-desist order to Vail Resorts, alleging that the Colorado-based ski giant is reneging on an agreement with roughly 30 immigrant investors that could …

www-denverpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org

LOL... The original plan even sounds shady. Give us money and you get a green card and a special path to citizenship. Seems eerily similar to the college entrance scandal

 

[tirolski]

LOL... The original plan even sounds shady. Give us money and you get a green card and a special path to citizenship. Seems eerily similar to the college entrance scandal

Buyin yer way in with “big" $ FTW.
It’s been around for awhile.

 

[Brownski]

Yes it is def shady- even though it’s totally legal. I don’t know who to root for this time.

 

[x10003q]

Vail probably does not want to do the 'Peak Resorts Project' from 2014 (what the money was for) and they have to refund the money. Vail clearly thinks they are not bound by the Peak Resort's action. This is classic lawyer vs lawyer crap.

 

[tirolski]

This is classic lawyer vs lawyer crap.

They probably all go out for drinks together and then bitch about who pays the tab.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The EB5 immigration folks are getting riled up too now, allegedly.

I expected to see the words "Arial Quiros" in that article.

 

[TonyC]

Powdr also allows more local decision making. Snowbird, Killington, Copper, Bachelor feel more like independents than resorts owned by the same company in terms of the vibe.

? You must have a short memory. What did POWDR Corp do when they bought Killington?
1) Closing dates first 5 years of POWDR ownership: April 20, May 2, April 25, May 1, April 22.
2) Jacked rates of kids/family programs exactly as Vail is doing now.
3) Surely you easterners remember the brouhaha over the ~6,000 lifetime season passes dating back to Killington's founding in 1958? POWDR walked away from those because they bought the area out of ASC's bankruptcy.

I'm sure there's more, but those are the issues where there was enough of a stink that I heard lots about it even in California.

I saw this coming because POWDR's takeover of Mt. Bachelor in 2001 was a dumpster fire. Here's Mt. Bachelor closing dates (Summit lift was completed in 1983):

I have a high school classmate who lives in Bend. He said POWDR also sold off over half their grooming machines and cut back on lift maintenance. Eventually the state of Oregon got interested when numerous skiers complained of oil dripping off chairlifts on their clothing. I had a glorious weekend of spring skiing at Bachelor in April 2007, but heard several unsolicited gripes about POWDR from locals while sharing chair rides. The Killington deal was just then in the works and I told my friend:

If Powdr Corp manages Killington this way, the New Englanders will not be as polite as the Oregonians and Powdr Corp will be crucified with negative publicity.

Eventually in both cases POWDR corrected some of the glaring issues. While Bachelor's season no longer extends past Memorial Day, operations in April/May are more extensive now that in the 2000's and there has been improvement in lifts/grooming.

And yes KIllington's early/late season has been restored, but it took 5 years. I suspect Vail will make some corrections too, as it will hit their bottom line before too long if they don't.

 

[MarzNC]

? You must have a short memory. What did POWDR Corp do when they bought Killington?
1) Closing dates first 5 years of POWDR ownership: April 20, May 2, April 25, May 1, April 22.
2) Jacked rates of kids/family programs exactly as Vail is doing now.
3) Surely you easterners remember the brouhaha over the ~6,000 lifetime season passes dating back to Killington's founding in 1958? POWDR walked away from those because they bought the area out of ASC's bankruptcy.

Actually I wasn't following skiing in the northeast at all when Powdr bought Killington. I live in the southeast, not NY or VT. I sampled northeast skiing 2013-19 when my daughter was in school in the region for curiosity but mostly during early and late season. I'm too spoiled by skiing out west. In any case, I didn't start paying attention to the ski industry until a few years ago. For that matter, I didn't start skiing more than 10-15 days a season until about a dozen years ago.

My point was that POWDR doesn't seem to try to operate individual resorts with exactly the same management approach as much as VR. The issues that happened as POWDR made acquisitions seemed unique to each resort. As opposed to what seems to be happening for VR resorts in more than one region at the moment. What do you think of what VR has been doing in PA? Or OH?

 

[TonyC]

I didn't start paying attention to the ski industry until a few years ago.

I recognized your screen name from the late EpicSki Forum (perhaps my greatest personal beef with Vail is its demise at their hands in 2017) and thought you were involved with Ski Forums for a long time.

In the 2000's POWDR did indeed try to run their resorts in a similar manner, with the possible exception of their Park City flagship. There was a pervasive opinion among skiers that the non-flagship resorts were run on the cheap.

You might remember also that in 2014 POWDR Corp made perhaps the greatest blunder in ski industry history when they failed to renew their grandfathered cheap lease for I think 85% of Park City's land. The leaseholder Talisker had sold its interest to Vail, and POWDR Corp at one point threatened a scorched earth strategy of dismantling Park City's lifts and closing the area. After losing the first round of litigation, POWDR Corp settled and sold Park City to Vail for considerably less than Vail had paid for the Canyons earlier after sizing up the situation and gambling they would indeed win Park City too.

At any rate POWDR Corp has made a lot of mistakes and it's not unreasonable to think they have learned a few things from those experiences.

Living in California, I have some interest in the ski areas in the Northeast but not much in the mid-Atlantic or Midwest. But I've always said ski areas have to operate in their regional context. Even Southern California and Mammoth are different markets and I believe Mammoth made a few mistakes when they took over the Big Bear areas.

From afar my impression was that local hills outside Minneapolis, Detroit and Chicago were spruced up and improved by Vail. Vail has been criticized for years about "being the 800 pound gorilla," homogenizing resorts, squeezing out local businesses. But this is the first year I've seen issues of competence in operations. That has historically been one of Vail's strengths. These current critiques of Vail are much more like the critiques of POWDR in the 2000's.

 

[tirolski]

...In the 2000's POWDR did indeed try to run their resorts in a similar manner, with the possible exception of their Park City flagship...
You might remember also that in 2014 POWDR Corp made perhaps the greatest blunder in ski industry history when they failed to renew their grandfathered cheap lease for I think 85% of Park City's land. The leaseholder Talisker had sold its interest to Vail, and POWDR Corp at one point threatened a scorched earth strategy of dismantling Park City's lifts and closing the area. After losing the first round of litigation, POWDR Corp settled and sold Park City to Vail for considerably less than Vail had paid for the Canyons earlier after sizing up the situation and gambling they would indeed win Park City too.

They’re in bed together at Whistler, allegedly.
edit yer correct it’s Alterra