F Vail

[Benny Profane]

Great stuff. He does a bit about skiing, too.

 

[TonyC]

Well, there's a town there (Park City).

That's the complete explanation for the attraction to destination visitors. As far superior Cottonwood Canyon snow and terrain are, the absence of a resort town makes them a non-starter for a lot of destination visitors vs. Park City or numerous Colorado resorts. This was true long before Epic and Ikon passes. I also wonder if SLC as the great bang-for-the-buck ski destination is losing favor due to the traffic issues. I suspect that BCC/LCC skier visits are higher percent local now than that historic 50%.

That Alta post from March 2019 was very informative. Also included there:

skier visits to Alta have increased 25% during the past 15 years

Below are selected good Utah snowfall seasons before and all seasons after the pandemic. The second number is Rocky Mountain visits excluding Utah.
1996-97: 3.0 million, 15.9 million
2001-02: 3.0 million, 15.1 million
2004-05: 3.9 million, 15.7 million
2010-11: 4.2 million, 16.7 million
2016-17: 4.6 million, 17.1 million
2018-19: 5.1 million, 19.3 million
2020-21: 5.3 million, 17.3 million
2021-22: 5.8 million, 19.5 million
2022-23: 7.1 million, 20.8 million
About 45% of the increase in Rocky Mountain skier visits is coming from Utah.

 

[MarzNC]

That's the complete explanation for the attraction to destination visitors. As far superior Cottonwood Canyon snow and terrain are, the absence of a resort town makes them a non-starter for a lot of destination visitors vs. Park City or numerous Colorado resorts. This was true long before Epic and Ikon passes.

It's more than just that Park City is in a ski town that caters to tourists. Having far more lodging options that don't require mountain road driving is certainly a factor. Not many beds at Alta or Snowbird. Even fewer mid-season because often return guests lock in their annual trip(s) a year in advance.

What Epic brought to the party after 2008 was the idea of having a pass that would cover lift access for a 1-week ski vacation at a destination resort in the Rockies. The marketing power of Epic only increased as social media became a major source of info for people planning a ski vacation. Vail Resorts gained a major foothold for the Boston, CT, New York City, and Phildelphia markets when VR bought Triple Peaks (Okemo, Sunapee) and Peak Resorts (Mt. Snow, Wildcat, Hunter). For those who haven't skied out west before, a trip to Park City sounds just as good as a trip to any of the other resorts near SLC.

I have a much better sense of what VR resorts and the Epic app do well after having an Epic pass for the first time in 2023-24. Used it at Vail, Beaver Creek in Dec, then Keystone, Breck, and Crested Butte in March. Not planning on getting Epic again any time soon, but can understand why there are people who fly for ski trips are regulars at those Colorado resorts.

A story from New England . . . several years ago I was skiing Berkshire East in mid-December, while on my way to pick up my daughter in Boston for a school winter break. There was only one adult skiing off the main lift that weekday morning. I ended up riding up with him and doing some runs together. He was a college sports coach who had been skiing all his life in New England. At some point, he asked about skiing in the Rockies because his son was interested. The son had started working as an engineer after college so felt he had the money for a ski trip out west. When I mentioned that Alta was my favorite destination, the man said "must be small, I've never heard of it." He had heard of Park City and Vail.

 

[Benny Profane]

That's the complete explanation for the attraction to destination visitors. As far superior Cottonwood Canyon snow and terrain are, the absence of a resort town makes them a non-starter for a lot of destination visitors vs. Park City or numerous Colorado resorts. This was true long before Epic and Ikon passes. I also wonder if SLC as the great bang-for-the-buck ski destination is losing favor due to the traffic issues. I suspect that BCC/LCC skier visits are higher percent local now than that historic 50%.

That Alta post from March 2019 was very informative. Also included there:


Below are selected good Utah snowfall seasons before and all seasons after the pandemic. The second number is Rocky Mountain visits excluding Utah.
1996-97: 3.0 million, 15.9 million
2001-02: 3.0 million, 15.1 million
2004-05: 3.9 million, 15.7 million
2010-11: 4.2 million, 16.7 million
2016-17: 4.6 million, 17.1 million
2018-19: 5.1 million, 19.3 million
2020-21: 5.3 million, 17.3 million
2021-22: 5.8 million, 19.5 million
2022-23: 7.1 million, 20.8 million
About 45% of the increase in Rocky Mountain skier visits is coming from Utah.

Well, yeah, it's the only town that can accommodate ski club level needs. I was there when the BSA was having their week (hot black women in well tailored one piece suits. Heaven). And it can actually house Sundance and skiers at the same time. Or, used to. Sundance week was cool, because those people don't ski. But, they drink (a lot) and eat.

 

[tirolski]

I was there when the BSA was having their week (hot black women in well tailored one piece suits. Heaven).

Only ever been to PC for a meeting in the summertime in ’88 well before they held their ’02 Olympics.
Folks were building McMansions like crazy.
Women's US ski team was also there for their summertime training.
The golfing was great as Jack & Arnie both had courses.
Jack’s didn’t have a clubhouse yet but the cart girls more than made up for it.

 

[Benny Profane]

Only ever been to PC for a meeting in the summertime in ’88 well before they held their ’02 Olympics.
Folks were building McMansions like crazy.
Women's US ski team was also there for their summertime training.
The golfing was great as Jack & Arnie both had courses.
Jack’s didn’t have a clubhouse yet but the cart girls more than made up for it.

The thing is, when I first went to Utah a few times, you would look around and say, damn, the houses are big everywhere. And it dawned on me, with a little help from a few locals, that, haha, Mormons like big families. Now it's everywhere, even Windham, of all places, but, back then, they excelled in square feet. Three moms and ten kids take up space.

 

[Andy_ROC]

@ Breck... Is this for real? Even remotely possible?

 

[Benny Profane]

Oh yeah. Last time I did a "residency" in Dillon, I went to Breck once. Once. At the time, I'm pretty sure, it was number one in the nation in day visits. More than Vail. It was a Friday, so I thought it was cool, and said, wtf, it's Friday to strangers, and they replied, har har, Friday is the new Saturday! Har, har.
All of those people are just going to get dumped at the incredibly crowded and, in the afternoon, stoned and drunk base where three quads scoop them off to either groomer heaven or kinda gnarly stuff at 12,000 feet. Too bad. Nice mountain. I consider it Vail's first great screw up, but, how can you say they screwed up, with a line like that?

 

[TonyC]

I've seen that video before, I think two years ago.

Breck has about the same skier visits as Vail with 55% of lift capacity and acreage. Breck is a worthy destination in April with the high altitude alpine and lesser crowds. But this February a friend of mine was mowed down at Breck by an errant snowboarder, resulting in shattered ribs requiring 7 copper plates, 80 screws and 250 stitches plus a hole in his lung that drained fluid for 3 days.

 

[Benny Profane]

Abasin and high Copper are so much better in April, because, more than anything, they ain't Breck.