Coronavirus and Skiing

[Andy_ROC]

The problem is these rules have been in place for so long that it's really wearing thin on everyone. And a lot of these measures haven't been proven to be effective. I think the public is catching onto that slowly but surely. I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates. I vote with my feet (and wallet). When I'm skiing at Killington, I'll usually buy lunch and eat inside, because they don't force me to wear a mask. I won't do that if I'm at Stratton which not only has mandatory masks, but requires reservations to eat in the cafeteria. Like no. Just no.
I'll ski straight through lunch and hit 7/11 on the way out.


I think Florida showed us that you can keep things fully open, despite a large wave that stresses hospitals, and be politically unscathed. I really feel for any small businesses in NY, particularly retail. They were looking forward to a good holiday season, and now that there's a mask mandate, I believe many people will go back to shopping online. Our economy hasn't seen the recovery that other states have, particularly in NYC, and our governor stuck a fork in it. Literally offices that had just reopened went back to remote.

To the point of being courteous and empathetic, it goes without saying that violence or verbal abuse are always inappropriate. However, I have zero respect for public health experts and elected officials who kept pushing these restrictions. It was a huge mistake to think that you could get all of society to put their lives on hold for this long, cut people off from social circles, put millions out of work, and there not be any collateral damage.

I can only speak for myself. I was happy to comply with all the restrictions before vaccines. I got the vaccine and booster at the first opportunity. I feel like I did the right thing. And now, 20 months later, we're back to wearing masks everywhere, despite being told all along that vaccines were the way back to normalcy. 80% of people took them, so it feels like we are being punished for those who didn't. To say that I'm angry would be an understatement. I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state. Once again, I can only speak for myself, but I have to believe that I'm not alone.

Pretty thoughtful and I appreciate that.

Yes we're all tired. Our family too was very careful--- we maintained a tight social circle until we got vaxed. (we're all boosted now as well) But once I was vaxed I felt the pandemic was pretty much over.

But with detla (now omicron) and relaxed rules things have started trending in the wrong direction--- so unfortunately it's not over. I'm in Rochester and our doctors at URMC and Rochester Regional were speaking on the local news this week. They are very concerned about hospital occupancy trends. We are at or have exceeded our highest hospitalizations yet in the pandemic. The hospitals now have patients in hallways and other overflow areas not previously used. I have some family MD's and they are exhausted. They also said the VAST majority of whom are being admitted in this area are unvaxed. Overrun hospitals puts us all at risk, even if we're safe from covid. Antivaxers should just stay away from the hospital since they refused the number one treatment to keep them out of it! Anyway enough of that rant.

As for mask wearing, yeah I hate it as well but it won't keep me from shopping at a particular store. For example Home Depot was requesting ALL customers wear masks about 2 months ago (well before any mandates) and I gladly complied as did most others in the HD stores that I went to. REI started it a ~month ago. If someplace like Stratton wants me to wear a mask as I order my food and walk to my table, no problem. Especially if it helps others and most importantly the employees feel better. As for those that walk around without masks, I feel they are pathetically rude, entitled and selfishly inconsiderate toward everyone and most importantly toward the employees that came into work each day instead of collecting unemployment. Whether someone thinks masks work or not is irrelevant.

As for your claim that rules have been ineffective, that just isn't so. Our numbers here in western NY were one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the nation during spring, summer and early fall of 2020 during heavy rules, while at the same time it was blowing up in places like FL. As for your comparison about FL, I believe it's a horrible analog for reasons I posted why earlier in this thread. Bottom line is NY and FL have lost about the same number of people, but FL has had 2x the number of deaths since late spring 2020 as NY--- so hardly wonderful.

As for your complaints about politicians, well who doesn't. Personally I loathe virtually all of them. But as for public health, they're being advised by doctors, infectious disease experts and hospitals admins regarding capacity etc. As for feeling like you've been lied to, you really need to keep this in mind--- Science is constantly evolving and unlike a political position, scientific guidance will be modified as new information is learned.

As for me I'm boosted and taking vitamins in hopes of boosting my immune system. I'm traveling. Already flew to FL for golf 2 weeks ago. This winter I plan on flying out west once or twice to ski and maybe even VT or Canada. I will likely be cautious and avoid very crowded indoor places around people I don't know unless the establishment requires a vax passport. I will gladly comply with masking, especially to help employees feel more at ease. And God I hope I don't get hurt and need urgent medical attention.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Pretty thoughtful and I appreciate that.

Yes we're all tired. Our family too was very careful--- we maintained a tight social circle until we got vaxed. (we're all boosted now as well) But once I was vaxed I felt the pandemic was pretty much over.

But with detla (now omicron) and relaxed rules things have started trending in the wrong direction--- so unfortunately it's not over. I'm in Rochester and our doctors at URMC and Rochester Regional were speaking on the local news this week. They are very concerned about hospital occupancy trends. We are at or have exceeded our highest hospitalizations yet in the pandemic. The hospitals now have patients in hallways. I have some family MD's and they are exhausted. They also said the VAST majority of whom are being admitted in this area are unvaxed. Overrun hospitals puts us all at risk, even if we're safe from covid. Antivaxers should just stay away from the hospital since they refused the number one treatment to keep them out of it! Anyway enough of that rant.

As for mask wearing, yeah I hate it as well but it won't keep me from shopping at a particular store. For example Home Depot was requesting ALL customers wear masks about 2 months ago (well before any mandates) and I gladly complied as did most others in the HD stores that I went to. REI started it a ~month ago. If someplace like Stratton wants me to wear a mask as I order my food and walk to my table, no problem. Especially if it helps others and most importantly the employees feel better. As for those that walk around without masks, I feel they are pathetically rude, entitled and selfishly inconsiderate toward everyone and most importantly toward the employees that came into work each day instead of collecting unemployment. Whether someone thinks masks work or not is irrelevant.

As for your claim that rules have been ineffective, that just isn't so. Our numbers here in western NY were one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the nation during spring, summer and early fall of 2020 during heavy rules, while at the same time it was blowing up in places like FL. As for your comparison about FL, I believe it's a horrible analog for reasons I posted why earlier in this thread. Bottom line is NY and FL have lost about the same number of people, but FL has had 2x the number of deaths since late spring 2020 as NY--- so hardly wonderful.

As for your complaints about politicians, well who doesn't. Personally I loathe virtually all of them. But as for public health, they're being advised by doctors, infectious disease experts and hospitals admins regarding capacity etc. As for feeling like you've been lied to, you really need to keep this in mind--- Science is constantly evolving and unlike a political position, scientific guidance will be modified as new information is learned.

As for me I'm boosted and taking vitamins in hopes of boosting my immune system. I'm traveling. Already flew to FL for golf 2 weeks ago. This winter I plan on flying out west once or twice to ski and maybe even VT or Canada. I will likely be cautious and avoid very crowded indoor places around people I don't know unless the establishment requires a vax passport. I will gladly comply with masking, especially to help employees feel more at ease. And God I hope I don't get hurt and need urgent medical attention.

This is where I am
You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
It ain't over.

 

[raisingarizona]

This is where I am
You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
It ain't over.

Our hospitals here are at the point of being completely full and health care workers have to make those really tough decisions.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

This is where I am
You're spot on about this potentially getting worse. My wife's favorite doc she works with is of that opinion too. One other note is that they just put up the "covid bubble" again in our hospital with more rooms than this time last year, fully expecting it to be worse.
It ain't over.

That what the infectious disease docs are saying here too. We are in the phase where stricter precautions seem unnecessary to the general public, but experts expect omicron to explode. Even if the new variant is less virulent, there will still be a huge impact on hospital operations. If delta doubles every 5 days, after a month there will be one hundred new infections from one infection on the first day of the month. If omicron doubles every 2 days there will be 30 thousand cases in the same time. Even if only 0.5 percent of omicron cases are serious enough for hspitalization, that's still more than the total number of delta infections. Exponential growth can be a butch.

mm

 

[Milo Maltbie]

I've long believed that businesses can make their own decisions on masks and vaccine passports, but I'm opposed to government mandates.

IME businesses want clear rules and they want them enforced equally. I'm sure there are plenty of retail workers who want everyone to masks, but without an enforcible mandate there is no way an individual worker can even request that. Even if an owner requires masks, he's competing with everyone who does not have that requirement.

I feel like I was lied to, gaslit, and abused, for 20 months. This is not directed at the anti-vaxxers. I don't care what they do. If they get hospitalized for covid, it's their own damn fault. My anger is directed 100% at the state health department and the governor, because they're the ones who decided to punish 80% of the state.

You should be angry at anti-vaxxers because they are the ones who are spreading the virus and filling the hospitals, which is what has caused responsible public health officials to recommend various restrictions. Anti-vaxxers are also the ones who refuse to mask up voluntarily, which is why we have mask mandates. If you were abused and lied to, it was by the anti-vaxxers and the phony internet anti-vaccine "experts." Scientific advice always changes as we learn more. You should know that.

mm

 

[JTG]

An important thing to note is that there isn't a hard line between B and C.

Right, so I’ll go B minus.

 

[snoloco]

IME businesses want clear rules and they want them enforced equally. I'm sure there are plenty of retail workers who want everyone to masks, but without an enforcible mandate there is no way an individual worker can even request that. Even if an owner requires masks, he's competing with everyone who does not have that requirement.

It's not reasonable to force people to cover their faces in public indefinitely, so they're going to have to come to terms with that reality.

You should be angry at anti-vaxxers because they are the ones who are spreading the virus and filling the hospitals, which is what has caused responsible public health officials to recommend various restrictions. Anti-vaxxers are also the ones who refuse to mask up voluntarily, which is why we have mask mandates. If you were abused and lied to, it was by the anti-vaxxers and the phony internet anti-vaccine "experts." Scientific advice always changes as we learn more. You should know that.

mm

Punishing the vaccinated because of the antivaxxers is not a strategy that will end well for those who are pushing it.

 

[G.ski]

Punishing the vaccinated because of the antivaxxers is not a strategy that will end well for those who are pushing it.

I'm a solid group C as well.

And I totally agree with you regarding the above quote. Forcing a majority of cooperative citizens to be restricted due to lowest common denominator thinking is wrong and will be "punished". Not to mention that it will have no effect at all on the lowest common denominator population!

 

[Ripitz]

It's not reasonable to force people to cover their faces in public indefinitely, so they're going to have to come to terms with that reality.

Even the Taliban is starting to understand this. Be thankful you’re not a Muslim woman living in an Arab country.

 

[wonderpony]

B+. I take care of my horse daily. I don't trust the farm owner's son. He forgets things like water and hay while planning his next big project that he can't afford.

Other than that, I make sure I have enough to and wine and call it good.