Windham Mountain Going Private?

[TomCat]

3) Reading through the club membership "benefits", I see complimentary parking is listed as if that is a positive thing. So it seems that in addition to reducing desirable parking for non-members, there may also be some form of paid parking forced upon the public.

Maybe a “paid parking” season pass at gore is the first step to establish an exclusive club.

Seriously, the ski industry in general has been moving toward more exclusive. A lot of casual skiers (2-3 weekends a year) are dropping out due to cost. They don’t ski enough for a pass, but day tickets are too expensive.

Tom

 

[Benny Profane]

I remember reading in The Millionaire Next Door that, the top of the list foolish expenditure for the upper middle class is a country club membership, and I guess I agree, although I was never near that level of wealth. Now, I'm guessing that the sort of customer that Windham expects to join already has a club membership down in Westchester or wherever, so, two memberships? I dunno. That's some major coin that, if somebody sat down and did a simple number crunch, would be hard to justify vs. Europe and flights out west. People who made a lot of money arent that dumb, although their kids are.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

You can't go to Europe every weekend though. But if it remains open to the public I can see families doing a week at Windham if it's truly a luxury experience verse getting on an airplane

 

[MC2]

Andy_ROC said:
Sounds like another example of very rich people buying up everything nice for themselves and ruining it for everyone else

Can you explain this to me, or cite an example? Not sure what you are saying.

You can’t think of an example of this? You live in NJ, you have a home in the ADKs, you run a ski website, your company has several resorts as clients, and you can’t think of an example of this?

Do you like skiing at places with a higher percentage of rich people (Okemo, Vail, etc.)? Or do you like a more MRG/Plattekill vibe? Do you like going to resorts with $8 bottles of water? Or do you like going to your cabin in the woods to work on your trails? When you go to Italy, do you envision yourself hanging out with a bunch of rich Americans & Saudis at the Ritz? Or do you see yourself getting pizza from a small shop & eating it in a town square?

Windham is a completely whole, successfully operating ski area. The current owners had access to all the financial numbers, not made up numbers based on projections. It would be very easy to financially make the decision to convert Windham to a public/private club and make it profitable. There are at least 2 decent size ski area examples of a pubic/private set-up in NYS: Holimont Ski Club right next to Holiday Valley and Hunt Hollow Ski Club in Naples, NY.

Hollimont is a good model for Windham. Open to the public on weekdays, private on weekends & holidays.

My take is: Windham kinda sucks anyways. There are 3 other ski areas in the Catskills that I would rather ski (4 if you count Catamount in the taconics). Whether Windham is public or private, it doesn’t make any difference to me.

I don’t buy the idea that every ski area (or even most) will become private in the future. There will always be ski areas open the public (and golf courses, and beaches, etc.).

 

[Milo Maltbie]

You can't go to Europe every weekend though. But if it remains open to the public I can see families doing a week at Windham if it's truly a luxury experience verse getting on an airplane

You guys think like skiers, not rich assholes. It's not really about the skiing for them or even the "luxury experience." Fancy clubs are a safe place for rich kids to ski without having to supervise them yourself. The selling point is that you can know the parents of the kids your kids hang out with. The rest of it is just there because rich people can afford it.

An added bonus is that your kids may drag your future ex-wife to the mountain for the weekend when you need some alone time with your future trophy wife.

That's true for Hermitage and Yellowstone too.

mm

 

[Harvey]

You can’t think of an example of this?

The quote was:

"Sounds like another example of very rich people buying up everything nice for themselves and ruining it for everyone else."

How do the rich ruin everything nice? By making it crowded? By driving up the price? Just by being there? Or is it something else?

Is that what is happening at Windham? In my mind, snowmaking is a luxury item. It's so expensive it kind of forces ski areas to cater to the rich.

Definition of rich is also a variable. If your family has a US HHI of $75k+ you are in something like the upper 5% of income world wide. (I made that up, but I think it's basically true.) The US is 5% of the world's population and we use 15% of the world's energy.

From where I sit if you know you will be fed and sheltered and you have health insurance, you could be considered rich by worldwide standards.

 

[MC2]

The quote was:

"Sounds like another example of very rich people buying up everything nice for themselves and ruining it for everyone else."

How do the rich ruin everything nice? By making it crowded? By driving up the price? Just by being there? Or is it something else?

Yes.

I mean, in most of those ways (and more), yes.

Definition of rich is also a variable. If your family has a US HHI of $75k+ you are in something like the upper 5% of income world wide. (I made that up, but I think it's basically true.)

From where I sit if you know you will be fed and sheltered and you have health insurance, you could be considered rich by worldwide standards.

And people all over the world will tell you that rich [insert group of people (Americans, Australians, Saudis, etc.)] have ruined [insert cool place (Tulum, Bali, etc.)], which used to be cool, but now sucks.

To say that you have never heard of this phenomenon is outrageous.

Also, if you want to see where you rank on the World income & wealth lists, they have calculators for that:

Where are you in the global distribution of income?

Use our simulator to position your income relative to the income of others

wid.world

Also, we’re not talking about people who aren’t fed & sheltered. We’re talking about Windham Mountain. Come on.

 

[raisingarizona]

Random thoughts-

Flying to Europe is a big commitment. 20 hours of travel kind of sucks.

Generalizing all rich people as assholes isn’t fair imo.

As Milo points out I see the value (if you can afford it) in having a semi private ski resort/club experience a short drive from your home and work place. It’s a weekend getaway with a community vibe that would attract people. Maybe it’s not our vibe but different strokes and all.

Anyways, this Windham turn is really interesting but I’m also with Matt, I don’t give a crap what they do

 

[Q*bert Jones IV]

My take is: Windham kinda sucks anyways. There are 3 other ski areas in the Catskills that I would rather ski (4 if you count Catamount in the taconics). Whether Windham is public or private, it doesn’t make any difference to me.

This is kind of where I fall. Except that all those people who might have bought a Windham day pass, and now can't, are going to end up at my already-crowded home mountain.

 

[MC2]

Random thoughts-

Flying to Europe is a big commitment. 20 hours of travel kind of sucks.

Shorter from the east coast & you can do direct flights. Something I tell people planning to move out west: do some European travel while you’re close.

Generalizing all rich people as assholes isn’t fair imo.

Nobody said this.