Toggenburg Mountain Sold

[tirolski]

I checked out the orda doc Stu linked to and it does seem to say that the budget is 144m. I agree that also seems really high for one year. I hadn't even heard of the capital games in 2023. They are calling it "capital support."

Olympic Regional Development Authority | Agency Appropriations | FY 2021 Executive Budget

Appropriations (in HTML format) requested for Olympic Regional Development Authority in the FY 2021 New York State Executive Budget

www.budget.ny.gov

It’s the World University Games.
College kids competitions in the cold.

Adirondack Sports Council

www.lakeplacid2023.com

 

[x10003q]

I checked out the orda doc Stu linked to and it does seem to say that the budget is 144m. I agree that also seems really high for one year. I hadn't even heard of the capital games in 2023. They are calling it "capital support."

Olympic Regional Development Authority | Agency Appropriations | FY 2021 Executive Budget

Appropriations (in HTML format) requested for Olympic Regional Development Authority in the FY 2021 New York State Executive Budget

www.budget.ny.gov

The number is probably accurate, but the author does not explain that only a small amount of the $144mil is for the 3 alpine areas. With the author's comparison to Vail Inc (alpine ski area company) and the owners' whining, the author makes it seem that ORDA is spending $144mil on Whiteface, Gore and Belleayre. As we all know, that is complete nonsense.

 

[Benny Profane]

This writer should have avoided the comments about ORDA's capital expenditures. I cannot stand ORDA, but NYS did not spend $144.5 million in the last fiscal year on the ski areas. ORDA is spending money on the other perennial money losers that surround Lake Placid - like Mt Van Hovenburg, Speed Skating and the Jumping Center. While Vail's CAPEX number for 2021 maybe $120 million, here are Vail's CAPEX for the prior 4 years (2020,2019,2018,2017):

Annual Capital Expenditures (in millions $)​

$172.33

$192.04

$140.61

$144.43

Vail spends every year (as they should), unlike ORDA. The ORDA/Vail CAPEX comparison is just not valid. By the way, Vail's CAPEX is down this year due to COVID.

“Why is New York in the business of running ski areas?” said Meier. “They run everything inefficiently – what makes us think they could run a ski area more efficiently? When they have a budget gap, people like us get wiped out, or we have to go beg, borrow, steal money somewhere to do a new lift or a new snowmaking project, but the state bails them out with the new gondola. It's frustrating.”

These whiny comments are just weak excuses when there is failure. NYS has been in the ski business since the late 1940s. Stop crying about it, sell out or change the NYS Constitution. We have all watched ORDA delay replacing lifts by years, sometimes stretching into a decade. Lets not pretend that ORDA has gold plated the ski areas. Gore still has trouble opening Burnt Ridge much before mid-January unless there is big natural snowfall.

Here is more nonsense:
“It's a little disheartening to see [ORDA’s] capital budget,” Harris said. “It's a little disheartening to see their [relatively low] lift ticket prices. It's a little disheartening that they're advertising right in my backyard.”

Again with the capital budget. What this guy does not realize is Gore advertising is competing with SVT for skiers.

The bottom line is skiing is a crap business. I wish NYS was not in the ski business or in the winter sports venue business, but that will never change in our lifetimes. Watching ski area owners whine about NYS is boring and lame, especially when they have been successful in running their ski areas.

The flow of money to ORDA may be reduced pretty severely with Cuomo gone, and it looks like he's doomed, although the guy is hard to throw dirt on. Unless we get lucky and the next guv likes winter sports and the workfare that it inspires.

 

[Ripitz]

looks like he's doomed,

Who knows, maybe he’ll slam a gondi up from Pine Hill to distract from his bad hand habits.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Who knows, maybe he’ll slam a gondi up from Pine Hill to distract from his bad hand habits.

Lol
That was a good one ?

 

[wonderpony]

I drove by there this afternoon. There are cheesy For Sale signs tacked on to the big sign by the highway.

 

[Tjf1967]

I drove by there this afternoon. There are cheesy For Sale signs tacked on to the big sign by the highway.

Maybe take a hike up there and get yourself a souvenir. You can give it to one of your grand kids and tell them about the old times. Trail sign.

 

[Harvey]

There are cheesy For Sale signs tacked on to the big sign by the highway.

Like to see that.

 

[Emily]

I drove by there this afternoon. There are cheesy For Sale signs tacked on to the big sign by the highway.

Peter didn’t waste any time.

It would be interesting if a group of Togg enthusiasts got together to make an offer for twice what Harris paid for it with no restrictions to see if he would flinch. The only thing we don’t know is if the covenant was required by Meier as a condition of sale to Harris.

What is interesting is that Togg sold 3500 season passes when Meier and Stemmerman bought Togg, and Greek Peak sold 4700.

In addition, at the time Stemmerman and Meier made it clear the smaller resort (Togg) is sound financially, profitable and well-run.

“We don’t believe this is a distressed asset or a company that’s in need of a turnaround,” Meier said. “They’ve got a great tight-knit, well-run company, and we just want to try and improve it and grow it and combine it with Greek Peak so that we can dominate the Syracuse market.”

 

[Harvey]

The only thing we don’t know is if the covenant was required by Meier as a condition of sale to Harris.

I am curious about this.