Toggenburg Mountain Sold

Is there any other business where the NYS directly competes against a sole proprietor?

I simply wanted to join in on the Toggenburg/Greek Peak/Song/Lab discussion. If you want me to be somebody else, sorry about that. I can't help you there.
Welcome to the forum. I know where camp is coming from. RJ is a no it all with a chip on his shoulder.
You need to let it go. What they did may seem shady to you but why would they open their mouths before it happened? You think they wanted picketers at the closing? 750k was a good deal. I think he can salvage most of that back from sale of equipment. I'n return he signed the agreement not to ever run aski area there. The Greek peek guy could have made out better doing it himself but he didn't want to be the bad guy. His hill has potential. The other two are going to be slow burns until they go out.
 
OK, Campgottogopee and Tjf1967, I just went back and read all of the postings regarding Toggenburg, as well as the 46 pages about GP, and nowhere do I see an RJ1972, so I don't know if you are just messing with me, or if this is an inside joke.

I for one will be the first to admit that I don't know it all, and have been wrong more than a few times. However, I certainly can be opinionated. ;)
 
Welcome to the forum. I know where camp is coming from. RJ is a no it all with a chip on his shoulder.
You need to let it go. What they did may seem shady to you but why would they open their mouths before it happened? You think they wanted picketers at the closing? 750k was a good deal. I think he can salvage most of that back from sale of equipment. I'n return he signed the agreement not to ever run aski area there. The Greek peek guy could have made out better doing it himself but he didn't want to be the bad guy. His hill has potential. The other two are going to be slow burns until they go out.

I know I need to let it go. Greek Peak is my home base, but I feel so bad for the Togg employees and Fabius community. Small ski areas mean so much to local economies, businesses, and residents.

Take Campgotagopee for example, from the 46 pages of the Greek Peak posts that I skimmed through, he adores his Greek Peak and Virgil Valley. If Greek Peak closed up shop, I'm sure he would blow a gasket.
 
OK, Campgottogopee and Tjf1967, I just went back and read all of the postings regarding Toggenburg, as well as the 46 pages about GP, and nowhere do I see an RJ1972, so I don't know if you are just messing with me, or if this is an inside joke.

I for one will be the first to admit that I don't know it all, and have been wrong more than a few times. However, I certainly can be opinionated. ;)
It's a different NY ski blog website
Harvey changed servers last year
I hope I used write word
 
It's a different NY ski blog website
Harvey changed servers last year
I hope I used write word
Yes.

The archives are here:


Unfortunately, the way it went down, they are undated, and unsearchable.
 
Interesting
 
OK, everyone. It all makes sense now. I thought you all were just messing around with the newbie. I didn't go through all 53 pages of the archive, but scrolled backwards and saw a few of RJ1972's postings. Maybe on a long flight one of these days, I'll read through some of the archives. Rest assured that I'm not usually as vocal as she/he is. At least I hope that I'm not. If so, please tell me as I certainly do not want to offend anyone.
 
This writer should have avoided the comments about ORDA's capital expenditures. I cannot stand ORDA, but NYS did not spend $144.5 million in the last fiscal year on the ski areas. ORDA is spending money on the other perennial money losers that surround Lake Placid - like Mt Van Hovenburg, Speed Skating and the Jumping Center. While Vail's CAPEX number for 2021 maybe $120 million, here are Vail's CAPEX for the prior 4 years (2020,2019,2018,2017):

Annual Capital Expenditures (in millions $)​
$172.33$192.04$140.61$144.43

Vail spends every year (as they should), unlike ORDA. The ORDA/Vail CAPEX comparison is just not valid. By the way, Vail's CAPEX is down this year due to COVID.

“Why is New York in the business of running ski areas?” said Meier. “They run everything inefficiently – what makes us think they could run a ski area more efficiently? When they have a budget gap, people like us get wiped out, or we have to go beg, borrow, steal money somewhere to do a new lift or a new snowmaking project, but the state bails them out with the new gondola. It's frustrating.”

These whiny comments are just weak excuses when there is failure. NYS has been in the ski business since the late 1940s. Stop crying about it, sell out or change the NYS Constitution. We have all watched ORDA delay replacing lifts by years, sometimes stretching into a decade. Lets not pretend that ORDA has gold plated the ski areas. Gore still has trouble opening Burnt Ridge much before mid-January unless there is big natural snowfall.

Here is more nonsense:
“It's a little disheartening to see [ORDA’s] capital budget,” Harris said. “It's a little disheartening to see their [relatively low] lift ticket prices. It's a little disheartening that they're advertising right in my backyard.”

Again with the capital budget. What this guy does not realize is Gore advertising is competing with SVT for skiers.

The bottom line is skiing is a crap business. I wish NYS was not in the ski business or in the winter sports venue business, but that will never change in our lifetimes. Watching ski area owners whine about NYS is boring and lame, especially when they have been successful in running their ski areas.
I checked out the orda doc Stu linked to and it does seem to say that the budget is 144m. I agree that also seems really high for one year. I hadn't even heard of the capital games in 2023. They are calling it "capital support."

 
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